To the Families of Lee Houa & Michael Vang....
Charlie
Please click on this link: http://laotianlink.com/ to hear what
Yangsao Sayasith had to say in light of NTR for the LPDR, and other
LPDR Sympathisers.
Charlie
Fisherman
This writing shows Mr. Sayasith Yangsao's profound compassion for his
motherland; he wants nothing but peace and stability for Laos and
prosperity for the Laotian people. He sees things the way they are, not
the way they appear to be, or worse, the way we think they should be.
If I am not mistaken, Mr. Yangsao is one of the descendants of the
Lyfoung and was one of the few pre 1975 Hmong engineers trained in the
West (sent by the Royal Lao Government). Yet, he bears no grudges
against the current regime in Laos. What happened twenty seven years ago
happened. There is nothing we can do to reverse that. The people who
were involved in the acts of the time have long gone. We cannot and
should not allow ourselves to be tortured by the bitter feeling of the
past. Instead, we should build the bridge between ourselves and the
people in Laos, as stated by Ambassador Douglas A. Hartwick at the
National
Laotian-American Symposium not too long ago. Only through our friendship
we can influence Laos in a positive direction. Only our friendship can
encourage the Lao PDR government for a more open-door open-society
policy.
Thank you again, Mr. Chalie. By the way, I couldn't find Mr. Michael
Vang or Mr. Lee Houa mentioned anywhere in Mr. Yangsao's speech. Have I
missed something?
Regards,
Fisherman
Her Lao
text,,,
National Laotian-American Symposium on US-Laos Relations
Thursday, May 23
Remarks by Sayasith L. Yangsao
Computer Network Consultant/Trainer
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Introduction
My name is Sayasith L. Yangsao, a Lao of Hmong origin. I am an American
citizen, trained in Canada as an Engineer, and Electronics Technology
instructor, I currently work as a freelance computer network consultant
and trainer in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Since 1993, I have been back to Lao PDR for several personal visits and
one-year assignment as an UN-ITU curriculum specialist at the Post and
Telecommunications Training Center in the Lao capital of Vientiane. I
consider myself a close observer of Lao politics, with a special
interest in the Lao PDR economic, social and educational development, in
so much that it can benefit the multi-ethnic Lao people who have gone
through numerous conflicts in the recent history of Laos.
*** Being "a close observer" is one thing; understanding Laos' social,
educational, economics, and political dynamics to a degree where serious
-- even if critical -- insight can be had is something else.
Symposium on US-Laos Relations
First, I want to express my strong support of this symposium on US-Laos
Relations, which I should say is long overdue. It is an historic event,
addressing US Laos relations, and exploring issues, opinion and factors
that are barriers to further strengthening the relations between US and
Laos. In my view, all parties should have a common interest, the best
interest of the two countries, and I believe a frank dialogue should
lead us to a common ground aimed to mutually benefit both countries.
*** How hallowed the oft propagandized claim to the effect of: "America
and Laos People's Democratic Republic have always maintained diplomatic
ties all these years!" Some serious explanations are needed here, let's
be honest about it!
My greetings come to you today with the message of peace,
reconciliation, stability, unity, and equality for the multi ethnic
people of Laos. The past is history and we cannot change it, but we can
learn from it to build a better future. The future begins today and I am
sure we will do what we can to make it the way we want it to become. My
best wish is to see Laos and the Lao people enjoy a very long period of
peace, stability, and harmony among all the Lao ethnic groups, in a
context of equal rights, social justice, economic and educational
opportunities.
*** Wishing for something to happen by sheer will, by the good hearts of
all people, what-not doesn't really mean a whole lot; such appeals to
patriotism, national, multi-ethnic solidarity, good-heartedness, moral
and ethical conformism have been broadcasted on each and every meeting
of the LPDR's since the day of its inception and it's been over a
quarter of a century and Laos is still mired in protracted and abject
poverty: -- THAT says something about the nature of (1) Laos government,
(2) its governance system, and (3) those clawed their way to the top of
the political structure.
Peace and stability in Lao PDR
Peace, stability and harmony are crucial to rebuilding society and that
is essentially what Laos must do, rebuild. The old society was flawed by
elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt. The new society is still
forming, with the representation from all ethnic minorities at all
levels of the Lao PDR government. In the course of my travel from the
North of
*** How true is that? I don't follow Laos politics, except for the BS
we do daily in SCL, but for some strange reason I have a very difficult
time believing such a claim! Anyway, assuming true and proportional
representation at all levles of the LPDR, the serious question that
ought to be asked is: What is the NATURE of that representation? What
is the quality of such representation? Are these questions permitted,
fair, or intelligible to the LPDR and those who admire its governance
system?
Laos to the South of Laos, I felt no danger and experienced no problems.
Laos has built and continues to develop roads and bridges, which will
adequately permit the transport of goods and people nationwide, thus
enabling easy access to markets and services greatly needed by Laotian
rural communities. Communications are key to the Lao multi-ethnic
people?s active participation in all aspects of the country; already
they are feeling more and more the sense of belonging to a nation, where
their basic needs will be met and their voices heard. I am personally
very optimistic about the future of Laos, whose relations with the USA
are improving steadily for the benefits of both sides.
*** It is good to be optimistic about something, when there's little
else going on, that is, beyond sizeable and needed contributions and
donations from outside, in terms of technological help/services,
engineering needs for the various national projects, monetary grants and
loans with which the federal government uses to augment its meager
operating budget,,,
In his dissertation, Dr. Kou Yang, an assistant professor on Southeast
Asian Affairs at the California State University-Stanislaus, wrote: "The
winner of war is the one who can bring peace to the people. The winner
of peacetime is the one who can bring economic prosperity, social
justice, stability, equality and harmony to the country. Now, it is
peacetime, and we must work to be the winner of peace. No one wins in
wars and conflicts, but everyone can be a winner in peace." My fellow
Laotians, the past is history and we must move into the future. At hand
we have peace, stability, unity and harmony among the multi-ethnic Lao
people for economic and social developments. Any political reform would
necessarily emerge once the Laotian people have enough to eat, and the
majority of Lao have an acceptable level of education, which allows them
to understand and partake in politics in a responsible manner for the
benefit of all.
*** Classic case of a catch-22 situation, ain't it?: To substantially
reform (by which I mean to re-formulate the executive and legislative
branches of the government and to tweak with a highly convoluted
national constitution which was promulgated to sustain the current
regime pure and simple), would mean social and also at least political
"chaos" [that's what reform means! -- economic and education have never
registered clearly with those in charge of the LPDR, their cliche and
tired lines notwithstanding, so chaos they may not be but abysmal they
have always been!]; but to march on this road, in this manner, so that
the guys in charge at the LPDR could convince themselves that Laos is a
peace-loving, harmony-seeking, friendly, lawful, multi-ethnic, ad
nauseam society would mean ,,,, they would have to every few years or so
extend their congressional projections as to when the meaty fruits of
their hard-working, solidaridized, peace-loving, law-abiding,
single-party-loving Laotians would materialize,,,
Let?s not be effected or influenced by some ongoing destabilizing
activities in Laos by internal or external elements, whose political
objectives are not supported by the Lao majority, inside or outside the
country.
*** Was that said seriously or tongue-in-cheek? Or both? What the hell
DOES "destabilizing activities in Laos" entail? A few students trying
to walk down the boulevard with a sign saying: "Peace, Freedom, and
Multiple Political Enfrenchisement"? A few haggard, desperate young men
and women resorting to some minimal violence, because they believed they
had no other serious/tangible recourse to changing the political
structure, because those want peaceful change through national debates,
grassroots movements, etc. were systematically and brutally suppressed?
Come on, we are all grown men and women here; let's be frank and
slightly intelligent, folks!
There is no tangible evidence of acts of aggression by the LPDR on a
specific group of ethnic minorities. On the contrary, there are
continuous acts of sabotage and banditry against an internationally
recognized government and its peaceful citizens. Violence and
anti-social
*** That's can be termed "stooping low"! Tell me one other government,
legal or illegal, past or present that had not been, by one government
or another, by "internationally recognized"! Of course, the LPDR is a
recognized government. No one questions that; the question has always
been: is this government a fairly elected government; did the Laotians
people truly elect this LPDR government, time and again, despite the
fact that there are numerous other political parties in Laos from which
the people may choose? Come on, we are all grown ups here; let's not be
silly and pretend to be silly or imbecilic here!
actions of recent malcontents orchestrated by some overseas Laotians
have forced the LPDR to take actions against those who may propagate
such acts of internal terror, in order to protect their citizens,
employees, government institutions, tourists and general peace in the
region.
Yes, the current political system in Laos is not perfect; and there is
corruption within the system. The leadership is working hard to fight
this corruption, this is evident in the fact that they have reassigned
and removed many of their high-ranking members in the Central Committee
of the Lao People?s Revolutionary Party. What really counts under this
*** "The leadership," "the Lao People's Revolutionary Party," ad
nauseam,,, such talks sound so much like pure, communist constipation,,,
political system, is what the population in Laos can do, and what the
Lao officials are doing to improve the living conditions of the people.
If we look at things in an unbiased manner, possibly the current
government deserves some credits as well. As outsiders, we may not like
to think of ourselves as 'outsiders' but we are, we should attempt to
see things as they are, not the way others say they are and certainly
not simply the way we want them to be. We should also attempt to
remember clearly the former politics in Laos, some of your former Lao
brethren would definitely disagree that governance was so good then.
*** I was born in the late 1960s and personally didn't know the former
leaders of Laos,,,, but it seems cogent to observe that neither group
(past or present) is very apt at governing, and they are quite similar,
too, governmentally speaking, that is: In the past, the King, his family
members, and handpicked ministers [at the national level and his
provincial governors] seemed to have absolute power, and the various
government offices, groups, etc. were more or less rubber stamps; at the
present time -- since we are grown men here, all with decent and minimal
education, let's just be honest and say -- the government is still very
similar: autocratic, authoritarian, and single-partied (albeit, the
multi-ethnic Laotian people love the LPDR and its hardworking,
university-educated, productive leaders and bureaucrats to death, 'tis
why they never bother to even think half-seriously of any other party or
people/leaders, who might have some crazy, "destabilizing" ideas)!
I hope Lao-Americans, who desire to make Laos a developed and prosperous
nation, will focus their efforts positive actions towards their former
nation and motherland. Acts and actions that will be taught the children
of Laos for generations to come.
Welfare of the Laotian people
All concerned Lao think above all of the welfare of the Laotian people,
regardless of the political system that their leaders may use to
administer the business of the country. The current conditions in Lao
PDR appear to meet the aspirations for the majority of Lao people. Here
*** When was this personal assessment of yours [or was this an objective
assement?] made? Starting just last year? Or have the "conditions"
been meeting or "appear" to be meet[ing], the aspirations for the
majority of Lao people" for sometime now? If so, it is hard to swallow;
so this is all the Laotian could ever aspire to, eh? This abject
situation,,,
today, what we want to concentrate on is today and tomorrow. We want
more schools, more school supplies, more hospitals and medicines, more
foods for the Lao children; more farm equipment and advanced farming
technologies for the Lao farmers; more roads to connect between the
underdeveloped rural areas. We need training and higher education
opportunities to form a skilled work force, with the ability to produce
goods and provide services in a variety of industries.
*** Such things don't materialize out of the blue; donations ain't gonna
cure the protracted problems like those Laos has -- from economic under
development, to minimal foreign investments, to the lack of both basic
and advance educational endeavors, to political intransigency [the
latter of which is the linchpin for all the others],,, They come as a
result of a nation, of a society, truly freeing its citizens to walk and
think everywhich way ,, to do things that may not, for example, seem
conforming or politically correct momentarily but have far and future
repercussions,,, Indeed, NO NATION can give itself enough of every
thing, from human to natural resources, to development as an island in
isolation. A continual infusion of resources, brain powers, ideas,
technologies, what-not -- a true symbiotic relationship -- with others
from both far and close,,,, this is the way to progress and development.
*** Laos or rather the LPDR can't be taken seriously when they keep
saying, in effect [and excuse the occasional vulgarity], "Please, give
us help in terms of grants, loans, donations, trading rights,
educational materials, technical expertise,,, but fuck off when it comes
to our internal politics and affairs. The peace loving, harmonious,
multi-ethnic prefer us, the LPDR, and only us,,, so don't stick your big
nose where it doesn't belong,,, just give us what we need to develop,,,"
The Lao government has been taking all steps and measures required to
implement a long-term economic growth policy aimed at moving the country
out of the underdevelopment in order to reduce the current number of
poor families. Reports on economic and social development projects
taking place in Lao PDR, in cooperation with non-governmental
organizations operating in the country are printed regularly on the
daily Lao newspapers with English versions on the Vientiane Times.
*** Those statements are some of the biggest exaggerations,
straightfaced lies, and horseshit I've ever read! "The Lao government
has been taking all steps and measures required to implement," blah,
blah,,, Pure cow dung,,, and elephant droppings,,,
Currently in Lao PDR all ethnic groups and social strata throughout the
country actively participate in rebuilding a peaceful and developed
nation. The 7th Party Congress Resolution of the Lao People's
Revolutionary Party of 14 March 2001 has set
"A new vision and target for the development of the country at the last
Seventh Nation-wide Congress. The whole party and people shall
concentrate all physical and intellectual energy on developing the
national economy by considering it as the central task closely linked
with the solution of social problems and the development of progressive
Lao citizens. The people are requested to be united and ardent in
exploiting the overall national potentials in combination with the
potentials of the cooperation and assistance from the international
friends to build the Lao PDR with peace, independence, democracy, unity
and prosperity?With the people?s active contribution to the national
development causes, it is highly expected that slash and burn
cultivation practices should be basically stopped and opium growing
terminated."
*** It is this kind of straightfaced propaganda that has contributed so
disproportionately to the UNDER DEVELOPMENT of Laos as a nation, a
political economy. An independent, sovereign state is truly a political
economy in every sense of that phrase. And a political economy, by
definition, therefore, is one that has the political, economic,
educational, and civic/social structural foundations to meaningfully and
progressively develop from one year to the next. It is a society based
on pragmatic and democratic institutions, where all individuals from
within the society -- wherever they may start from and no matter how
ideal their political dreams or far-fetched their personal resolves --
can hope to have a chance to grace its foremost ruling offices through
open and cherished electoral processes as free from bribery, corruption,
and paternalism as possible,,,
*** However big or small in physical size, those societies arund the
world which are most developed, most progressive, and
least repressive are those based on such political foundations,,,
Normal Trade Relations between the US and Lao PDR
Before making some remarks about the Normal Trade Relations between the
US and Lao PDR, please allow me to reprint some indicators of the Lao
PDR economy, which can be found at the Web sites of the US and French
embassies to Laos. The following figures are of particular interest to
trade and commerce.
::::::::::::::::::
The US had signed a bilateral trade agreement with the Lao PDR in 1998.
We can just wonder why this trade agreement remains unratified by the US
Congress. What penalty is the USA trying to impose on this tiny
peace-loving country, which is being guided by Buddhism instead of
Marxism? As Vietnam, Cambodia and China have obtained NTR with the USA,
the poor LPDR continues to deal with penalizing high trade tariffs on
goods exported to the US.
*** That's another one of the most bizzare observations I've ever read.
The LPDR,,, a "tiny, peace-loving country, which is being guided by
Buddhism instead of Marxism"? ,,, I mean, come one, did you write that
so people can snicker when they read it?: Because that's what people do
when they read such remarks. Oh, sure, the more polite or more
"diplomatic" ones might not do it in your face,,, but to say the LPDR
political machines are guided by Buddhism instead of Marxism is so
unbelievably, facetiously funny, serious people can't hold back from
snickering,,,
Despite obvious tensions and mistrust between the LPDR and the USA
following the withdrawal of the US forces from Indochina, the American
Embassy in Laos was never closed nor vacated. The US diplomatic
relations with Laos were not interrupted as in the cases of Vietnam and
Cambodia. On a humanitarian basis, Lao PDR has cooperated in finding
MIAs with the US JTFA for a more than a decade. Continuous investigation
activities punctuated by seasonal excavations have resulted in a near
continuous repatriation of former MIA remains.
*** Yes, as I said at the outset: I'm very pigued by this whole strange
thing, too: The American Embassy in Laos, from 1975 to the present time
has never "closed [n]or vacated",,, there should'f been lots of progress
made, right? And especially when there are hundreds, if not more,
American MIAs in Laos, too, an issue for which, as you pointed out, the
LPDR has never been less than forthrightfully cooperative in helping,,,
So, why Maoist/Stalinist China, Ho-ist/Khruschevist Vietnam, and Pol
Pot/Hun Sen Cambodia (with which the U.N. has broken off jurisprudencial
cooperation talks) and even we-wanna-go-back-to-the-stone-age Burma and
all SE Asian countries have the NTR and other trading rights and yet
Laos, this tiny, Buddhist-guided, peace-loving nations,,, with roughly
500,000 of its former citizens here in the West,,, why is she being so
singly punished?!
More recently the LPDR has investigated and co-investigated the
disappearances of American citizens near or along its borders with
Thailand. Neither the LPDR, US Embassy nor FBI investigations have ever
turned up any indications of LPDR involvement in these incidents. As
background facts were exposed about the victims in these disappearances
were released it was clear the victims of these disappearances had ties
to subversive groups within the LPDR and were in contact with people of
questionable character both in Thailand and the LPDR. It could therefore
be conceivable that these disappearances are criminal in nature rather
than political. Yet these disappearances are continually raised as an
issue for withholding the ratification of the US/LPDR trade agreement.
The LPDR has enacted extensive reforms since their coming to power in
1975. The LPDR now actively promote an open market economy with minimal
restrictions on investments in that economy.
Recent granting of NTR to China and Vietnam raises the question of why
would the USA be withholding NTR status to the LPDR? The LPDR is a small
non-aggressive land-locked country rated one of the 20 poorest countries
in the world. For some so-called human rights and western styled
democracy reasons the great, powerful and benevolent USA will not grant
NTR status to the LPDR. Every time the question of NTR status comes up
the USA offers no good reasons for denying, or not ratifying NTR to the
LPDR. What is the LPDR to do? How can it obtain this elusive NTR from
the large benevolent USA?
*** Hmmmm, it is such a confounding pondering,,,, Why is it? Truly, I
wanna know,,, with all those positives going on for the LPDR,,, as
mentioned by the author of this well-put togehter speech,,, why is it
that this small, peace-loving, Buddhist-as-opposed-to-Marxis-guided,
democratic republican nation is being denied such a simple trading
right?
Hawj Lauj
St. Paul, MN
In addition to the MIA issue, Lao PDR has cooperated fully with the US
in the areas of counter-narcotics activities, which include the
implementation of many alternative projects that would help eliminate
opium cultivation by the highland minorities of Laos, such as the Hmong
and Iu-Mien people. These minorities, who would be displaced from their
traditional homeland to the valleys and plains for a career change
without any training and financial support, would end up finding life
more miserable. NTR granted by the US to Laos may perhaps assist them in
their integration into a new world of light industry of goods producing,
handcrafts, mining, garment factories, tourism, and services. Despite
the fact that more than two million tons of ordnance fell on Lao
territory during the heights of the Vietnam War, Lao PDR is simply
satisfied with the small amount of financial aid provided by the US to
train Lao personnel in the disposal of unexploded ordnance.
Normal trade relations have been granted to Lao PDR by China, European
Union, Russian, Germany, Mongolia and several countries of the former
Warsaw Pact and the ASEAN member countries, in which group Lao PDR
acquired membership in 1997. Where is the US place in Lao PDR? Other
than trade, the US has plenty of other opportunities to offer to the Lao
people, such as scientific, technological and cultural influences that
the US could exercise for a long and lasting relationship between the
two countries. Within the Lao PDR there is more favor to a new presence
of Americans, as the Lao PDR has experienced in her new relationship
with France. The Lao PDR would certainly consider with great interest
some cooperative agreements aimed at the reciprocal protection of
investments between the two nations, particularly for the promotion of
economic and social development in Laos.
In my humble opinion, an NTR status granted to Lao PDR will benefit both
the US and Laos. Many opium growers in the Hmong and Iu-Mien villages
will gradually change their traditional ways of making a living because
of new opportunities related to the exportation of wood products, and
goods manufactured by US companies operating in Laos. From the USA,
heavy machinery and equipment are in great need by foreign contractors
dealing with infrastructure development and mining business of Laos. In
the US, small American business owners will mostly find NTR to their
advantage due to the low tariff for the import of
Lao goods. The absence of NTR between the US and Laos has not forbidden
Laotian-Americans to send money back to their motherland, in addition to
an estimated of 90 million dollars brought freely to the economy of Laos
by 30,000 Lao and Hmong Americans visiting Laos in year 2001. NTR might
help the US recuperate some millions back to the US economy.
Conclusion
More two-way trade as offered by NTR will have additional long-term
beneficial effects in the US-Lao Relations. At present, the Lao PDR can
use the ASEAN markets to export its products to the US, but at much
higher prices which are not in the interest of both sides. Offering
these remarks in support of the first Symposium on US-Laos Relations, I
hope that the continual improvements in bilateral relations between the
U.S. and Laos will lead to NTR between the two nations. The lack of
normal trade relations will delay other cooperative agreements that will
serve to establish a trusting relationship between the two governments.
The people of both nations must not have to suffer at the hands of some
biased vindictive groups that have strongly lobbied their government
representatives to oppose ratification of the bilateral Lao-U.S. Trade
Agreement.
May this National Laotian-American Symposium on US-Laos Relations
provide satisfactory arguments for a better relationship between the Lao
People?s Democratic Republic and the United States of America!
Thank you very much for your attention.
Sayasith L. Yangsao
Minneapolis, Minnesota
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Paxasonlao
That was an excellent remark from Mr. Sayasith Yangsao .
Hakpheng .
Paxasonlao4life.
Charli...@yahoo.com (Charlie) wrote in message news:<ec65825a.02061...@posting.google.com>...
born to be lao
Hawj lauj,
You're getting better and better every day. how did U get 2 b that
good? What did your parents feed you? Extra brains and rich minerals
water? LOL (*_~)
sok dee
cheers!__ born to be lao
Charlie
CHARLIE
Fisherman <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3D0C0508...@hotmail.com>...
casalao
is essentially what Laos must do, rebuild. The old society was flawed by
elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt. The new society is still
forming, with the representation from all ethnic minorities at all
levels of the Lao PDR government.
casalao
"born to be lao" > Hawj lauj,
>
> You're getting better and better every day. how did U get 2 b that
> good? What did your parents feed you? Extra brains and rich minerals
> water? LOL (*_~)
>
> sok dee
> cheers!__ born to be lao
UCSD has taught our native son quite well and perhaps LaJolla has had some
magical effect on him too.
casalao
thanouxay
Thank you Charlie to bring this to our attention. This is one of the
most objective speech I ever hear out of Lao territory. I hope that
the spirit of this speech will inspire all of us to do more for a
better understanding among the Lao and starting from the Lao
Intellectuals for for proactive action in the future.
I think that we are on a good track and I do hope that more will join
in.
I do not see any link between the spirit of Mr. Yangsao's speech and
the title.
Sok dee
Thanouxay
Charli...@yahoo.com (Charlie) wrote in message news:<ec65825a.02061...@posting.google.com>...
Lis Nom
spoken by President Kamtay Siphandone, but I don't know why Mr. Yang was
spoken instead.
Best regards,
Tom
"thanouxay" <than...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37ed8460.02061...@posting.google.com
> Charlie,
>
> Thank you Charlie to bring this to our attention. This is one of the
> most objective speech I ever hear out of Lao territory. I hope that
> the spirit of this speech will inspire all of us to do more for a
> better understanding among the Lao and starting from the Lao
> Intellectuals for for proactive action in the future.
>
>
Charlie
By taking a closer look at Yangsao's speech, it does seem like it
belongs to Chairman Khamtay. Just read the compliments given to Mr.
Yang by Thanouxay and the rest of the Commie guerrillas in SCL - they
think it's the best piece of art. It's funny to find a U.S. Citizen
and a Lao of Hmong origin called himself a republican yet talking like
Communist. It's funnier he is a descendant of Pha Nya Touby Lyfong.
Charlie
"Lis Nom" <lis...@lycos.com> wrote in message news:<739ca318aef704b5fca...@mygate.mailgate.org>...
Charlie
I knew you would come out to compliment Yangsao's speech, and asked
for more to join in. But NO THANKS... You've only strengthened my
Laonork belief more on my fable called, "The Wolf and the Goat."
It goes like this,,,, Once upon a time a Wolf saw a young Goat, who
was feeding at the top of a high cliff where the Wolf could not reach
him. He called upon the Goat: "Be careful or you may fall. If you
come down here, the grass is much sweeter, and you'll find much more
of it."
"Thank you," said the little Goat, "but I like it very much here. If
I came down to you, it is you who would feed better, not I."
You get the point?
Charlie
than...@hotmail.com (thanouxay) wrote in message news:<37ed8460.02061...@posting.google.com>...
Sri Sattanakarahut
Right wing fanatics,
If you people the so-called Lao PDR oppositions don't stop using
these two missing persons Lee Houa and Michael Vang as your
political front against Lao PDR, very soon someone in the Hmong
community will be arrested and put in jail. If you want the US
to deeply investigate into this Houa and Lee case, the
investigation will have to shift its focus to the US and when it
does and I hope that some of you are ready for it. You people
better don't push it to much on a case that eventually is going
to shoot you in the foot! Read or better yet tattoo down on your
bald heads if you've gotten ones that is, of what the US
Ambassador Douglas A. Hartwick said in his speech at the National
Laotian-American Symposium on US-Laos Relations. Sit down and
pay attention carefully you right wing fanatics (especially of
the words "law" and "interests") to the following statements by
the Ambassador,
"I must pause to say that I can appreciate the perspective of
those who claim that these problems will never be fixed so long
as the current government remains in place. And there are many
areas where we, the United States, disagree strongly with the
policies of the Lao government. But to these people, I would
like to emphasize: despite its shortcomings, the US recognizes
the government of the Lao PDR as the sole and legitimate
government of Laos. The United States is absolutely firm in
opposing
any effort to violently or through non-constitutional measures
change this government. While we welcome peaceful and legal
change that would bring about democratization and full respect
for human rights, to seek its violent overthrow is against our
law. I oppose any action whose aim is that outcome."
"Since the events of September 11, we have worked closely with
the Lao on counter-terrorism efforts. Laos is not a country that
comes to mind when we
talk about international terrorism, but its porous borders and
rudimentary
internal police apparatus make it a tempting refuge for
terrorists. The Lao
people, who suffered their own terrorist attacks in recent years,
have joined with the United States in our common war against
international terrorism. They have done as much as possible
within their limited abilities to assist us in counter-terrorism
efforts. We, in turn, are interested in assisting the Lao to
contain the threat of terrorism along their borders, as well.
This cooperation serves American interests."
Sri.
Pao
I was not going to get into this discussion but I just have itchy
fingers and I feel that it would be a diservice to my native country
of Laos if I say nothing.
Mr. Sayasith L. Yangsao has presented a surprisely well articulated
article. If I don't see his name, I could have mistaken that the
eloquant article is written by my dear friend Mr. Thanouxay.
Hawj Lauj has covered many points that I agree with Hawj and I can say
that Mr. Sayasith L. Yangsao has gone beyond where no other Hmong, in
the prsesent time, has gone before into the "darkside" of Lao War - or
even Star War! He is now fully committed - publically - to the other
side of the Lao politics. This take courage, of course, but also one
will have to face the uneventual conserquence of such public standing.
All I like to add, being a distant observer (vs a close observer as
Mr. Sayasith L. Yangsao), is that the current Lao system of governing
is FLAW from the beginning. One just have to read Kaysone,s inaugural
speech on the launching of the Phak Passaorn Lao in the 50's and
follow on with all the rhetorics over the entire history of the
Phak... including the Phak's control of Laos over the last 26+ years.
It does not take a rocket science intelligent to see that the Lao
Gov's ideological foundation is FLAW. Today this ideologhical
foundation is not only flaw but unstable, divisive, unconducive and
cracking - hence the house will FALL - it is only a matter of time.
So, it is time that the Lao Gov. and its supporters in and outside
Laos begin to recognise this crack in the foundation.... Laos of today
is like the Titanic - it is sinking fast under its own feet while all
the rhetorics, including those of Mr. Sayasith L. Yangsao, are
echoing in and around the West, including in here and even in DC.
The US Ambassador's speech has hinted on many of these flaws. NTR has
been passed in Congress, waiting only for a signature from the
President, as I heard, but the US will not move on a sinking Titanic.
... Knock..knoc... any Lao at home.... well the light in on but there
is no sign that any one at home!!!
There are only few options left for Laos - to fix the flaw in this
sinking Titanic or to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed
and loss of lives. Alternatively, som epeople opt to build a modern
ship for Laos but this cannot happen when there are people still
running around with heads in the sands and some people continue to
behave almost like a schizophrenic that Laos all is well in Laos.
Say no more...
Pao
bovo...@optonline.net (born to be lao) wrote in message news:<4bcf482f.02061...@posting.google.com>...
Charlie
How can two systems with opposite policies put on counter-terrorism
efforts together? Does Hartwick suggest that while the U.S. is
fighting a war against terrorism committed and harvarded by
dictatorship regimes - Laos should fight a war against freedom and
democratic rebels or Communist resistent groups? It's the biggest
hypocrisy speech I've ever heard. Hartwick reminds me of the story,
"The Man and His Two Sweethearts."
A Man, whose hair was turning grey, had two Sweethearts, an old woman
and a young one. The elder didn't like having him look so much
younger than herself; so, whenever he came to see her, she pulled the
dark hairs out of his head to make him look old.
The Younger didn't like him to look older than herself, and pulled out
the grey hairs, to make him look young. Between them, they left not a
hair in his head, and be became perfectly bald.
The point is,,, He who gives to others' wants will never have
principles of his own.
charlie
Fisherman
It's dawn now. The night was over. The Wolf in your nightmare has long gone. It only exists in your imagination;
it is an illusion. Wake up and watch the sunrise.
Fisherman
Brad Velander
I read with interest your last posting about the speech by
Ambassador Hartwick. You showed surprising clarity, thought and even
pointed out issues that seemed to pass most everyone else in SCL by. Now
you revert back to the world of black or white, no color, not even
shades of grey. You are either for Lao nork or pro LPDR, no other
choices, no middle ground? What happened, could only find your
red-tinted glasses this morning and now everyone is a communist or
communist sympathizer.
Since you and I obviously read the same letter but achieved
completely different understandings about Sayasith's position, possibly
you should explain where it is that Sayasith endorses the LPDR 100 %? Or
where is it that Sayasith states the LPDR is perfect and unflawed? I
think that we all know that the LPDR government is imperfect, just like
neither the Australian, US, French nor Canadian governments are perfect.
But where does Sayasith state anything close to the fact that the LPDR
is perfect or near perfect, has all the answers, is the best thing since
sliced bread, etc., etc.? I read several comments that indicate problems
and difficulties within the LPDR government, why were they not in the
version you read?
I thought that Sayasith's comments were generally level headed and
impartial. He expressed his desire for peace and improvement in Laos. He
figures the granting of NTR would go a long way to helping the regular
Lao nai, so do many others including myself. That does not mean that we
think the LPDR is perfect, but is there a perfect manner by which to aid
the regular Lao nai to improve their lot in life? I think not. Does the
withholding of NTR status do anything to tangibly punish the LPDR
officials, no! So what is your position, isolate them and turn them
inward even more? Allow only the select few to obtain decent jobs and
earn a reasonable salary? Keep US business from investing in Laos and
assisting to bring up the GDP? Besides the tariff rates, the lack of NTR
does also severely limit and even prevent US investment in Laos.
--
Brad Velander
"Pao" <dr...@hmoob.net> wrote in message
news:bd07f89c.02061...@posting.google.com...
Pao
participation in
SCL.
As I wrote in my post, Mr.Sayasith's article is very well written -
better than I would imagine. I have met Mr. Sayasith and he is agood
man and anyhing I say here is directed to his article only.
If you read his article, there are many soft message he convey that
makes his beuatiful article LESS credible and
leaning too much to the Lao Gov's side.
For example, on the 5th paragraph, he wrote, "The old society was flawed
by elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt. The new sociey is
still forming, with the representation from all ethnic minorities at all
levels of the Lao PDR government. In the course of my travel from the
North of Laos to the South of Laos, I felt no danger and experienced no
problems....Communications are key to the Lao multi-ethnic people’s
active participation in all aspects of the country; already they are
feeling more and more the sense of belonging to a nation, where their
basic needs will be met and their voices heard. I am personally very
optimistic about the future of Laos, whose relations with the USA are
improving steadily for the benefits of both sides."
http://laotianlink.com/community/yangsao.htm
You need to grant me that English is not my mother tongue so I may NOT
understand English well enough. But on the sentence quoted above, I
read that Mr. Sayasith said that the previous Lao Gov. is flawed but NOT
the NEW Lao Gov. Beside he has found that there is "no danger and No
problems" - as far as he could see or experienced. I have no problem
with this because this is what he experinced... hence he is right - BUT
this does NOT mean that there is no danger or no problem in Laos!!! He
is just blided because he only see what he wanted to see and experineced
only what he wanted to experience - this is just how our brain works!
In addition, he went on to talk about "active participation of all
groups and a "feeling more and more the sense of belonging to a
nation... their (people) basic needs will be met and their voices
heard".
This is NOT true...
hence anything he said from here onward
has NO relevance and no credibility. It is just like a aeroplane
that is just 1 degree off course when it leave the runway.... do you
think that that plane...
no matter how well it fly in good time ect... but will this plane
arrive at the predetermined destination? Here Mr. Sayasith L. Yangsao
is OFF COURSE at take-off... so he is going elswere but what he talk
about.
If my understanding of English is wrong then, I am wrong and you are
right... and Mr. Sayasith L. Yangsao is right. But if my understanding
of the English language is right then.. what do you have to say?
Please re-read his article with these things in mind:
WHAT does he said? (I usually print the article and underline every word
taht I read).
HOW he said it?
On WHAT he said - HOW true? HOw untrue? In reference to WHAT?
WHAT does he MEAN?
WHY he said that?
WHY he mEAN that?
WHAT is NOT SAID - read between the line? WHY he NOT said that?
SO finally WHAT IS HIS REAL MESSAGE??
THis is HOW I read an article... may be just me!
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:g_aQ8.26858$Aa4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net
> Dr. Pao,
> I read with interest your last posting about the speech by
> Ambassador Hartwick. You showed surprising clarity, thought and even
> pointed out issues that seemed to pass most everyone else in SCL by. Now
> you revert back to the world of black or white, no color, not even
> shades of grey. You are either for Lao nork or pro LPDR, no other
> choices, no middle ground? What happened, could only find your
> red-tinted glasses this morning and now everyone is a communist or
> communist sympathizer.
> Since you and I obviously read the same letter but achieved
> completely different understandings about Sayasith's position, possibly
> you should explain where it is that Sayasith endorses the LPDR 100 %? Or
> where is it that Sayasith states the LPDR is perfect and unflawed? I
> think that we all know that the LPDR government is imperfect, just like
> neither the Australian, US, French nor Canadian governments are perfect.
> But where does Sayasith state anything close to the fact that the LPDR
> is perfect or near perfect, has all the answers, is the best thing since
> sliced bread, etc., etc.? I read several comments that indicate problems
> and difficulties within the LPDR government, why were they not in the
> version you read?......
> > --
> Brad Velander
S_g Keoviseth
I'd like to take this moment to extend my heart felt and profound
thanks to Mr. Yangsao and other courageous
Laonork men and women out there for being such an exceptional role model
to all of us Laonork younger generation. You peole are pioneer and true
peace activist.
The plight of those we left behind and our homesick elderly
in North America must have prompted individuals like you guys to take
action and made a very difficult decision to follow the path of peace
and national reconciliation. Even a kid from Savannakhet acknowledged
that bordom is our elders' worst enemies. The only way to ease our
elders' bordom is to secure a closer U.S. Lao tie and a granting of
NTR to Laos. This will provide an easy access for our elders go back
and visit their ancestral homeland without any restriction whatsoever.
The opportunity for those we left behind will increase greatly. Both
side will benefit greatly from your cause and vision of peace. God
bless all of you brave souls out there!
Sokdee,
S.g.
Paxasonlao
Dr. Pao, like many of the resistance groups you are unable to provide
any solution to improve the life of the Lao people, except to claim:
"There are only few options left for Laos - to fix the flaw in this
sinking Titanic or to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed and loss
of lives." What kind of MD are you? Instead of caring, you prefer
killing?
During the heights of the war in Vietnam you were, like myself, too
young to understand that armed forces and all kinds of war machines had
been used extensively in Indochina, but finally the US had to adopt a
political exit in order to get out of Vietnam, leaving all their war
machines to the communists who took over Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. With
your empty hands, you wish to make war to change the political system in
Laos for the benefits of some old Lao politicians in exile, and some of
the political ambitious people of your generation?
I wish you a lot of luck in your war endeavor!
Thank you
Hakpheng .
Paxasonlao4life.
dr...@hmoob.net (Pao) wrote in message news:<bd07f89c.02061...@posting.google.com>...
Pao
Don't be TOO QUICK to jump into any conclusion.
Take your time and at least study and think about what I have written.
You don't want any paxason Lao to be like you... so.. here is what I
suggest:
Read again what I wrote. But just in case ttat you are too intellegent
and you do not understand what I wrote, please allow me to put in Grade
three level:
This is what I wrote:
"There are only few options left for Laos - to fix the flaw in this
sinking Titanic or to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed
and loss of lives. Alternatively, som epeople opt to build a modern
ship for Laos..."
In Grade Three level, this means that:
the options for Laos are:
1. to fix the flaw in this sinking Titanic
OR
2. to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed
and loss of lives (this means that this is NOT a good way because lives
will be lost).
OR
3. build a modern ship for Laos...
THRE (3) options... which one do you want to choose?
Pao
"Paxasonlao" <paxas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2dfd93f5.02061...@posting.google.com
> Sabaidee Dr. Pao and all.
>
> Dr. Pao, like many of the resistance groups you are unable to provide
> any solution to improve the life of the Lao people, except to claim:
> "There are only few options left for Laos - to fix the flaw in this
> sinking Titanic or to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed and loss
> of lives." What kind of MD are you? Instead of caring, you prefer
> killing?
>
Sri Sattanakarahut
>
> My drea Paxasonlao,
>
> Don't be TOO QUICK to jump into any conclusion.
> Take your time and at least study and think about what I have written.
> You don't want any paxason Lao to be like you... so.. here is what I
> suggest:
>
> Read again what I wrote. But just in case ttat you are too intellegent
> and you do not understand what I wrote, please allow me to put in Grade
> three level:
>
> This is what I wrote:
>
> "There are only few options left for Laos - to fix the flaw in this
> sinking Titanic or to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed
> and loss of lives. Alternatively, som epeople opt to build a modern
> ship for Laos..."
The above statement is very poor written and if I have to grade,
I would grade it slightly above "Grade Three" level. On the
other hand...see below.
> In Grade Three level, this means that:
>
> the options for Laos are:
> 1. to fix the flaw in this sinking Titanic
> OR
> 2. to replace with a new ship - with more bloodshed
> and loss of lives (this means that this is NOT a good way because lives
> will be lost).
> OR
> 3. build a modern ship for Laos...
>
> THRE (3) options... which one do you want to choose?
>
Your so-called "Grade Three" level above is actually quite
articulated and if I have to grade it, I would grade it above the
high school level, perhaps college?
Sri.
Pao Say
You made my day!
I feel good now because I am graded to be beyond grade three.
Pao
"Sri Sattanakarahut" <sattana...@fakemail.com> wrote in message
> >
> Your so-called "Grade Three" level above is actually quite
> articulated and if I have to grade it, I would grade it above the
> high school level, perhaps college?
>
>
> Sri.
Brad Velander
which word makes you think that Sayasith's comments said the LPDR is
not flawed? "forming"?
How bad is your English? Where did you get your Phd degree? Come on,
the truth, how can you get a Phd and claim to have problems with the
language? My understanding is that you were educated in Australia, you
should have the language mastered pretty well to have attained a Phd
degree in an English speaking country. Or is it like the driver's exams
in Canada where they allow you to bring your own translator for the
exams?
Under your Phd program did they teach you that when you come across
an erroneous, flawed or debatable statement, the rest of the document is
immediately classified as crap? Come on Dr. Pao, if I am correct you're
playing games and it is quite below you. Why do you waste your efforts
with small talk and erroneous flawed statements and logic. I work with
not less than 4 Phds and several others holding Masters degrees, they
would have already made mincedmeat out of you without knowing a thing
about Laos. Only reading your statements and Sayasith's statement upon
which your comments are based.
To use your logic of the airplane flight, one might surmise using
your argument the plane can never get to it's destination. Not true, the
plane will get to it's destination by making a course correction or two.
How many planes have you ever flown on that didn't need a course
correction or two? And when it is determined that there is a need for a
course correction they adjust their course and vector towards the
destination, they don't turn around and head back to their origin to
start over. Has the US or Australian governments never made a "course
correction"? Seems to me that the US does it constantly making changes
to executive orders, foreign policy, laws and even changes to the
constitution from time to time. Why would you expect absolute perfection
from the LPDR because that seems to be the level by which you judge the
LPDR or even people who comment about their impressions, desires and
wishes for Laos. if it is not perfect then throw it out. Is your Phd in
medicine? Do you throw out a heart because it has an irregular beat,
killing the patient? Do you not assess it and correct it's irregular
heartbeat without killing the patient?
By the way, why is it that the shortest distance between any two
airports not a straight line? Does it maybe have something to do with
the fact that the earth is not flat? Nor is it simply black & white!
--
Brad Velander
"Pao " <dr...@lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:f6563094a21795d0e93...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> Thanks, Brad ... for your ongoing interest in Laos and your
> participation in
> SCL.
>
<SNIP>
>
> You need to grant me that English is not my mother tongue so I may NOT
> understand English well enough. But on the sentence quoted above, I
> read that Mr. Sayasith said that the previous Lao Gov. is flawed but
NOT
> the NEW Lao Gov. Beside he has found that there is "no danger and No
> problems" - as far as he could see or experienced. I have no problem
> with this because this is what he experinced... hence he is right -
BUT
> this does NOT mean that there is no danger or no problem in Laos!!!
He
> is just blided because he only see what he wanted to see and
experineced
> only what he wanted to experience - this is just how our brain works!
> In addition, he went on to talk about "active participation of all
> groups and a "feeling more and more the sense of belonging to a
> nation... their (people) basic needs will be met and their voices
> heard".
> This is their (people) basic needs will be met and their voices
> heard"
Brad Velander
1) You simply keep yelling at them to fix the ship without offering
assistance.
2) You build them the new ship but intentionally build it too small for
all of the existing passengers, thus causing the bloodshed.
3) You build the most modern ocean liner in the world with every
ammenity available but construction delays would lead to the discovery
that the former ship sunk and took all onboard to the bottom with her
before the new construction was completed.
In the end we discover that all three scenarios were completely
acceptable to your meet your objectives.
--
Brad Velander
"Pao " <dr...@lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:652eb2469d50aeb6de2...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Pao Say
Wow... wait for aminutes!!! Mr Brad Valeander.
Don't be too quick to jump into conclusion. Are you NOW catching all the
SCL SNIOP too? Or are you just too focus and you are loosing the
peripheral vision? Relax or take a break, my friend!
Jus a matter of interest and beciuse I want to understand that tyou and
I are looking at the same thing from the same refrenece.
PLease answer these questions:
1. Do you think the current Lao Gov has any flaw?
If they do, what are the main ones and how you suggest (hypothetically
--- 'coz it will easier for you to talk about) to fix them?
2. What option are you offereing Laos?
If you are not fixing the sinking ship, you are not replacining it and
not buidling a new one... what do you have to offer?
3. Why do you say that I am only yelling at the Loa Gov?
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:aaAQ8.37351$vo2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net
> But Dr. Pao,
> 1) You simply keep yelling at them to fix the ship without offering
> assistance.
> 2) You build them the new ship but intentionally build it too small for
> all of the existing passengers, thus causing the bloodshed.
> 3) You build the most modern ocean liner in the world with every
> ammenity available but construction delays would lead to the discovery
> that the former ship sunk and took all onboard to the bottom with her
> before the new construction was completed.
>
> In the end we discover that all three scenarios were completely
> acceptable to your meet your objectives.
> --
> Brad Velander
>
>
Pao
Nice to hear from you again.
I have never done any Ph D ... that's why my English is only at the
third grade that higher educated people have had problem understood.
If you just think in third grade and read my article as in third grade,
my message may appear differently.... only joking!!!.
So... because English is not my mother tongue, I may have misread or
misunderstood Mr.Sayasith's article. This is another blunder of
mine.
But let's us analyse again... but as a grade three person's
understanding:
Mr Sayasith wrote: "The old society was flawed
by elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt.
The new sociey is still forming, with the representation from
all ethnic minorities at all levels of the Lao PDR government. "
Can I ask you because you may be able to read Mr Sayasith's mind.
When Mr Sayasith that "the new sociey is still forming" - what does
this mean to you? Does Mr. Sayasith mean to say that the new society
"not flawed with elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt"?
Or Does the new society is also flawed with he same things? Or more
flaw or less flaw?
To me, with my third grade mind, Mr. Saysasith simply said that the old
society is flaw with this and thats... but the new one is NOT... 'coz
the new society has "the representation from
all ethnic minorities at all levels of the Lao PDR government"...
Hahahahaha.. so ?? no problem with elitism... ?
? no problem with patronage..
?? no problem with paternalitic contempt??? BUT only that the TOTAL
power rest witht he Phak Pssasorn... hence ... no contempt... but he any
one is desirable, just kill him/her (may you have never heard or seen
any iof these "no contempt " killing... - if you are in Vientiane,
I can refer you to some families who are orphan by these killing... I
bet you never know about these acts, do you??? May be you want to
sponsor some of these orphans to Canada to study.. hey??? Sometimes,
you
need to look beyond the obvious, see the unseen and heard the unheard!!
Don't tell me that with your higher education and you association with
all those PhD, you misread all these words in Mr. Sysasith writting!!!
another thing...
I have never study logic as well. But I can say that the Lao Gov was
OFF course on take off and so far they have NOT make any correction to
their off-course yet. I can be totally wrong in all what I am saying.
BUT for the benefit of the doubt, if I happen to be RIGHT... then
what would say to yourself, Brad?
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:rOzQ8.37345$vo2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net
Lis Nom
doesn't follow his foot step. I'll never trust anyone especially from
that regime. It seemed to me like the fisherman is using the little
fish to lure up the bigger fish. Once bited then both are hooked and
then kill. People have their own agenda to follow as per instructions
and plans to reach a certain goals which he or she is wishing for. I
just hope the leader doesn't lead his herd to cross a river when the
water is rising. By watching the animal chennel, I saw some very stupid
lead animals lead his herd crossing a rise water stream and killed most
elders and youngs (especially the caribou up in the north slope).
Tom
"Charlie" <charli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd1cd63a.0206...@posting.google.com
> Tom,
>
> By taking a closer look at Yangsao's speech, it does seem like it
> belongs to Chairman Khamtay. Just read the compliments given to Mr.
> Yang by Thanouxay and the rest of the Commie guerrillas in SCL - they
> think it's the best piece of art. It's funny to find a U.S. Citizen
> and a Lao of Hmong origin called himself a republican yet talking like
> Communist. It's funnier he is a descendant of Pha Nya Touby Lyfong.
>
> Charlie
>
Fraidy-Cat
war. It is out of my scope of concern. You recognize that the ship is
sinking deep, almost reach the bottom of the sea. When the ship is
sinking, shouldn't it be the time to re-invent a new ship? It seems
to me that the change now is especially designed for short-term
recovery, helping an ailing people in the ship to survive. The
turnaround strategies require strong leadership and fresh thinking at
the presidential level. The leader who has skilled that can make a
turnaround effectively. Just curious.
Regards,
paxas...@yahoo.com (Paxasonlao) wrote in message news:<2dfd93f5.02061...@posting.google.com>...
Sri Sattanakarahut
Pao wrote:
>
> Hi Brad,
>
> Nice to hear from you again.
>
> I have never done any Ph D ... that's why my English is only at the
> third grade that higher educated people have had problem understood.
> If you just think in third grade and read my article as in third grade,
> my message may appear differently.... only joking!!!.
> So... because English is not my mother tongue, I may have misread or
> misunderstood Mr.Sayasith's article. This is another blunder of
> mine.
>
> But let's us analyse again... but as a grade three person's
> understanding:
> Mr Sayasith wrote: "The old society was flawed
> by elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt.
> The new sociey is still forming, with the representation from
> all ethnic minorities at all levels of the Lao PDR government. "
First, I ain't no Ph.D., MA, BA, AA, nor High School Diploma.
I'm just an eight grader drop out and this is how I read the
above statement.
1. The old society was flawed by slitism, patronage blah
blah..., (and)
2. The new society is (also flawed but) is still forming blah
blah...,
The key phrase here is "still forming", which means something or
someone is not in a perfect state as yet and that it's "still
forming" into as such.
Sri.
Sri Sattanakarahut
Pao Say wrote:
>
> Thanks...Sri Sattanakarahut.
>
> You made my day!
>
> I feel good now because I am graded to be beyond grade three.
Anytime, Doc! :-)
Sri.
Brad Velander
Pao, you now attempt to play word games ad infinitum. What, approx.
20 years since your University studies, 26 or more years in Oz and you
still claim to be at third grade English comprehension? Geesh, you lie
like a basking salty (a crocodile for those who are not familiar with
the Aussie term). No I am not going to play your game, your way.
Please answer the pending question about your stated assertion that
if one comment in Sayasith's letter is flawed, then the whole letter is
"crap" (I believe that was your term)! Where did you learn this logic?
Hell, why am I still reading your crap, I should have been out of here.
After all one questionable or misunderstood statement makes the whole
rest of the dissertation crap, according you.
About the airplane flight, you need the same operating system
updates mentioned in my earlier post tonight. You seem to think that the
LPDR must still be a Marxist Communist communal agrarian society with a
centrally planned economy because there have been no flight corrections
since 1975. Without course changes where did the agrarian communal
society disappear to? Where is the centrally planned economy? Where is
no private land ownership? There is no membership in Asean? There is no
Lao constitution? There is no open market system in Laos, gotta warn
some people about that one! Wake up Pao, you have been asleep for about
20 years. Ford, Carter and even Reagan have all gone long ago.
I almost forgot, Pao. Where did I get my education? What level of
education do I hold? Are you imagining things again, or just simply
making them up as you go? Maybe my comments about my work relations mean
something to you that I did not intend or state, just because or your
special third grade comprehension! Seems to be an ongoing problem with
you Pao, let's try the first step to recovery, stop lying!
--
Brad Velander
"Pao" <dr...@lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:aaf518e09a6ec8c1564...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Pao
to play game with you. I am DEADLY serious about all my discussion
her.
So...it seems that you still have difficulty to DECIPHER the eloquent
article of Mr. Saysasith. What else, can I say?.
Let's try again...
What does Mr. Saysasith MEAN about the new society in Laos when he
wrote:
"....The old society was flawed by
elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt. The new society is
still
forming, with the representation from all ethnic minorities at all
levels of the Lao PDR government..... "
http://laotianlink.com/community/yangsao.htm
So if you want to get real, be real: Give me your interpretation (see
my previous post below). Perhaps, you may even want to discuss with
the author himself before responding to me again. I can even pass on
the author's email to you if you want.
Finally, I admire your continuing interest on Laos but what you see,
you hear and even touch may not be the REAL thing! How can you be
sure? Perhaps, you need to be a Jedi... feel the Force... and you will
experience what I mean.
I am sure that one day you will...
More later
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<a0WQ8.31145$Aa4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net>...
Lao Hakxat
A person who follows Buddhism but doesn't have the heart of a Buddhist!
Sad, sad, sad.
Behind your words lies your true feeling: hatred, vengeance, stigma.
You oppose anything that will bring a little better life for the poor children of a place where you came from, why?
Lao Hakxat
Brad Velander
You are not going to simply misdirect the thread and wiggle out
of supplying an answer as you are so famous for doing time and time
again, year after year. Quit dodging! Quit lying about your level of
English acuity. Quit misdirecting the thread!
Can you explain why it is that you have never read all of Sayasith's
letter? Yes, it is obvious that you have never read Sayasith's letter
completely.
Does your grade three English comprehension go along with either
total blindness or an inability to read at all?
Can you read for me the following quotation from Sayasith's letter:
"Yes, the current political system in Laos is not perfect; and there is
corruption within the system."
Now I think that this single sentence goes directly to the root of
your lying and all of your innuendo about the interpretation of
Sayasith's comments. How do you interpret this sentence with regard to
your own comments? If you want to simplify it, try breaking it apart at
the commas and dealing with each part separately. This sentence is only
four paragraph's below the line that you love quoting so much I think
that you have it permanently burned into your computer's clipboard
buffer cache.
Does being deadly serious about all your discussions, excuse
flagrant lying?
Has your limited English comprehension kept up, Buck Pao? I don't care
that you may be older than I am, you are a scared back-pedaling little
man. You do not deserve any respect until you face up to your own
comments and defend them with suitable responses instead of misdirecting
and lying as a defense. It is amazing how your English acuity has
increased so significantly as this thread has progressed. From
misinterpreting simple English sentences and claiming near illiteracy to
having no problems understanding my statements or comments.
You see Buck Pao, you are a liar! A simple and plain liar, no more, no
less.
--
Brad Velander
Noiy
"""Buck Pao,"""
Emotion and emotion!!!
Brad: Is that you the same Brad who's used to contribute beautifully
to this SCL? Calm down and take it easy, would you!
Hak Pheng
Noiy
drsouk
we must calm down, it is only scl!
Charlie
Would you like me to turn this Brad and Lao Commie network to the FBI
and CIA and have them deal with him directly? I mean it. He is using
democratic soil such as the United States to inflict his Commie belief
on us. Let him run his mouth all he wants. If he is as optimistic as
he said about the LPDR, why not just pack his bag and move back? This
land is for the free only.
Charlie
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<BRfR8.37913$mh.14...@news1.telusplanet.net>...
Lao Hakxat
> Dr. Pao,
>
> Would you like me to turn this Brad and Lao Commie network to the FBI
> and CIA and have them deal with him directly?
Wow! "FBI!", "CIA!" very powerful persuasive argument, huh? Running out of reasons besides that?
> ... This land is for the free only.
>
> Charlie
>
You are absolutely right, this land is for the free to exercise their freedom of speech! Use your logical
reasoning power and evidence to prove your point, instead of threats. Let me tell you something sonny, people of
your mentality if in charge of political power would stop at nothing to butcher his opponents. That's what we call
dictatorship. Take a good look at yourself in the mirror before you accuse others.
By the way, the FBI and CIA are very busy with their national security duties. Do you think they give a damn about
this tempest in a teapot?
Lao Hakxat
Pao
> Buck Pao,
> You are not going to simply misdirect the thread and wiggle out
> of supplying an answer as you are so famous for doing time and time
> again, year after year. Quit dodging! Quit lying about your level of
> English acuity. Quit misdirecting the thread!
>
> Can you explain why it is that you have never read all of Sayasith's
> letter? Yes, it is obvious that you have never read Sayasith's letter
> completely.
>
> less.>>>
My dear friend - Brad,
Hahahaahahaha....
I am begining to love this debate! but concern about mental health, my
friend!.
There is no need to calling name or pointing fingers - because every
time you do that, you are dragging yourself down further! this is just
a friendly advice...
Take a break... and return later, if you may.
You are in no condition to continue this debate... When your emotion
gets on the way, you cannot think rationally any more. Take some time
off... I'll still be around as I have been here since the early
beginning of SCL.
Take care
Pao
Brad Velander
limiting access to the land of the free and access to free
discussion and political association or beliefs.
What form of government acts in this type of manner, Charlie? Charlie
as I said before, you are a fascist, you believe in democracy only for
those who agree with you. Sounds similar to politics in Laos, so what
makes you better then the existing LPDR politicos?
If you want to waste your time and risk someone else telling you
you're a fascist, go ahead and call the FBI or the CIA. I would welcome
the opportunity to discuss my rights to freedom of speech and
association with them but I can guarantee you that they wouldn't even
spend the dime to call me.
Somebody please help straighten out this fascist loser. Does Mr.
Smith or Vang Pao have a 24 hr helpline to assist during these moments?
Turn the boy around and set him straight on the right path again, he has
obviously strayed so far that they should disown Charlie as a political
liability to their cause.
--
Brad Velander
"Charlie" <charli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd1cd63a.02062...@posting.google.com...
Brad Velander
normally an easy accomplishment for most people of reasonable character.
Pao, there is no debate, you run too fast! You refuse to support your
insinuations and accusations. You simply misdirect and dodge all debate.
Without checking all the previous posts, I don't believe that you
have even addressed one topic of enquiry, issue or response. Dodge,
weave, duck, jump, run, change threads. Such a simpleton tactic, far
below your level of intelligence.
Here are the outstanding issues awaiting your response.
Have you read all of Sayasith's letter? Yes, no?
Does Sayasith think that the LPDR is perfect? Yes, no?
Sayasith wrote in his letter, "Yes, the current political system in Laos
is not perfect; and there is corruption within the system." Yes, no.
The LPDR has never changed 'any' policies or practices since attaining
control of Laos. Yes, no?
Dr. Pao is a graduate from an English speaking university with an
advanced degree(>BS.). Yes,no.
Dr. Pao feigns English language ignorance as a defense for his
despicable character assassination postings. Yes, no.
This thread will continue when you want to debate or otherwise
support these accusations. I will even drop the last two points just to
close the other three issues that you have repetitively dodged since
initiating the discussion.
I don't need to keep prodding you for responses. If this were a
debate it would be the worst debate in history with only off-topic
retorts and off-topic redirection from the original antagonist.
--
Brad Velander
Paxasonlao
This is not the first time this Charlie threat people in SCL . He
likes to threat to take them to court or turn them to FBI or CIA now
.Charlie or anybody can you explain to me please what did Mr. Brad do
wrong in his posting ? What did he do or say against USA goverment in
other for Charlie to be able to turn Mr. Brad in to FBI or CIA . I
don't really get it .
Dr. Pao from Australia .
Mr.Brad from Canada .
Mr. Lawyer Charlie from USA .
DR. Pao and Mr.Brad had some disagreement in some area of Mr.
Sayasith Yangsao remark on Lao Symposium . Now Mr. lawyer Charlie
offer Dr. Pao of turning Mr. Brad to the FBI or CIA because of what
????? Don't tell me that with law degree couldn't handle the arena of
SAPHA CAFE LAO . This is just SCL DR. Souk said .
Or because Mr. Brad calling Dr. Pao ( BUCK PAO ) it's against USA law
so FBI and CIA has to get involve. If it's the case why I never heard
anybody threat to turn mahsmalyhuasonfa4life and brussoff
Lao Hakxat <laoh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3D1649B2...@hotmail.com>...
thanouxay
Hello how is the weather in Melbourne??? I am very surprise by your
comment on Ai Yangsao's statement at the Symposium. Do you think that
a brilliant person like Ai Yangsao cannot write his speech by
himself???
I do hope that Mr. Yangsao will not take it as an insult coming from a
well educated person like you are.
By reading his speech again and again, I came to realise that our
dream are very similar. I do hope that other will join in to dream
together of a Strong, prospere, caring Lao Nation.
Sok dee
Thanouxay
> > > is essentially what Laos must do, rebuild. The old society was flawed by
> > > elitism, patronage and paternalistic contempt. The new society is still
> > > forming, with the representation from all ethnic minorities at all
> > > Yes, the current political system in Laos is not perfect; and there is
Sri Satanakarahut
Charlie wrote:
> Dr. Pao,
>
> Would you like me to turn this Brad and Lao Commie network to the FBI
> and CIA and have them deal with him directly? I mean it. He is using
> democratic soil such as the United States to inflict his Commie belief
> on us. Let him run his mouth all he wants. If he is as optimistic as
> he said about the LPDR, why not just pack his bag and move back? This
> land is for the free only.
What a loser! Is this a typical Hmong behavior? When someone's views don't agree with you, you sort to a threat
and violent? God damn you dictators! This land of free and democracy doesn't need you people here, you
dictators belong to, errrr, anywhere but democratic nations.
Sri
Fisherman
>
> What a loser! Is this a typical Hmong behavior? When someone's views don't agree with you, you sort to a threat
> and violent? God damn you dictators! This land of free and democracy doesn't need you people here, you
> dictators belong to, errrr, anywhere but democratic nations.
>
> Sri
Easy, young fellow. Whatever Mr. Charlie the Goat says has nothing to do with the Hmong community. Don't get mixed
up, OK?
Fisherman
Pao
Hope that you have a good break from work.
Melbourne's weather is beuatiful now... it is cool and calm and
peaceful with a fair bit of snow falling in the hingh mountains north
of Melbourne. If you like skying, it is a good time to head down to
Down Under.
As for our friend, Mr. Yangsao... it could be an insult to him only if
you believe that you are a terrible writer! But it will be a
compliment otherwise.
It is no secret that many people long for peace, independence,
prosperity and harmony in our homeland. And I want nothing more than
just that even though I am no longer a Lao citizen. The problem now
is finding the best WAY to achieve this dream for Laos. You and Mr
Yangsao tend to believe that the current Lao Gov will be able to
deliver that dream while, in my humble opinion with all my bias, I
believe that the current Lao Gov, being flawed from the beginning (& I
know that you disputed this), in its current form with the current
ideology, is the main HINDRANCE to the Lao dream. Laos is bleeding,
sinking and no band-aid solution like NTR and the like will be suffice
to stop this bleeding and sinking without a COMPLETE overhaul of the
system to fix all the fundamental flaws in the present system. I
beleieve that any patriotic Lao with the heart for achieving the Lao
dream will has no fear to put everything on the table and embrace this
overhaul process. But on the same token, any one who is not prepare to
embrace this overahaul process will have to be seriously question of
their "cetana" in the future of Laos.
As Dr Souk rightly pointed out - history will tell who is right and
who is wrong. But one thing is for sure... nothing will transcend the
national patriotic spirit of the Lao people. One day, Laos will be
Lao-ohz again. It is only as matter of time.
Have a good day.
Pao
than...@hotmail.com (thanouxay) wrote in message news:<37ed8460.02062...@posting.google.com>...
Charlie
Sri, how can turning a Communist to the FBI and CIA be violent to the
United States? Anyway, I was only kidding with Dr. Pao. Aren't we
fortunate that even a Commie like you can freely express your views
here in the U.S.? In the LPDR, I certainly would have dissappeared
like the many right wing members along the Mekong River a long time
ago. Thank you Lord Buddha for sending me to the U.S.
FYI, my ethnicity is Hmong but I was born in Laos, so I have just as
much right to voice my opinions about the motherland of my birth -
Laos. It is my dream that my representation of Hmong becomes their
typical behavior.
Charlie
Fisherman <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3D173154...@hotmail.com>...
Brad Velander
sometimes somebody can start something that they really believe in
and they follow it through to an uncertain end. However if on that path
they influenced other people in a positive manner there is still
something to be proud of. If it influenced somebody into heading down a
negative path, then it is additional pain added to their burden.
There are many Hmong who do not think like Charlie, a number of them
were at the US-Lao symposium supporting the initiatives. Please do not
head down a road of blanket ethnic statements with unspecific targets.
The collateral damage is anything but excusable and will undermine your
credibility and respect amongst your peers and friends that you may have
not have befriended yet.
--
Brad Velander
"Fisherman" <fish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D173154...@hotmail.com...
Sri Sattanakarahut
Senior Fisherman, Charlie, Brad, Kevin et al,
My message was not intended for the entire Hmong community. I
only spoke of those who can't take criticisms and resort to a
threat of using the authority to suppress your opponents. If you
are not that type of a person then no need to be offended. I
just hate people who sing democracy on one hand and doing the
opposite on the other. Enough said...
Sri
Paxasonlao
charli...@yahoo.com (Charlie) wrote in message :
Dr. Pao,
>
> Would you like me to turn this Brad and Lao Commie network to the FBI
> and CIA and have them deal with him directly? I mean it.
Anyway, I was only kidding with Dr. Pao.
Very smart move hahahahaha just kidding , that's pretty good this
time for a lawyer lol.
Paxasonlao4life.
charli...@yahoo.com (Charlie) wrote in message news:<bd1cd63a.02062...@posting.google.com>...
Pao
debating with a person like you again! Your name calling does not
offend me a bit but it simply demonstrate your true color! - the sort
of people that I do not need to associate with.
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<BRfR8.37913$mh.14...@news1.telusplanet.net>...
Pao
No friend, no worry
Good bye!
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<96xR8.35479$Aa4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net>...
Brad Velander
as I said, it is over until you face up to your accusations like a
real man.
In my opinion our discourse proved that I was not simply name calling,
you are a liar.
Sometimes, in order to corral the feral bulls you have to step in a
little bullshit. It wipes off.
--
Brad Velander
"Pao" <dr...@hmoob.net> wrote in message
news:bd07f89c.02062...@posting.google.com...
Pao
Hahahahahahah...
Hahhahahahahahaahahahha.... It is a terrific day today!
All the best... for tomorrow.
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<T9eS8.47612$vo2.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>...
Pao
debating with a person like you again!
Your name calling and your personal smear do not offend me a bit
(because you are NOT talking about me) but it is simply a reflection
of who you really ARE and you have demonstrated to the world your true
color! - the sort of people that I do NOT need to associate with.
Pao
"Brad Velander" <Spam...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<T9eS8.47612$vo2.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>...
casalao
"Pao"
> As Dr Souk rightly pointed out - history will tell who is right and
> who is wrong. But one thing is for sure... nothing will transcend the
> national patriotic spirit of the Lao people. One day, Laos will be
> Lao-ohz again. It is only as matter of time.
well history is telling us already: the lpdr were/are dead wrong in their
socialist adventure and are feverishly correcting course. good luck lpdr
chums. and we, the ragtag rlg men, were almost right but time was not on our
side. but not to worry: lao-ot/lao-nheuan will be true lao-ot again.
casalao
drsouk
"history will tell..." ok, but dont trust to much in it! the deutch
communist at the 30' said that history is on their side, so when hitler take
them to a jail, they make no opposition and continued to said :"you are in
the wrong side, we are in the right side: the final crisis of capitalism
will come soon!!!, we shall overcome soon!!!" so they died in the camps.