Dialogue with a member of the Royal family
Robert Hussein
& Time 3/14/99, 16:58
-----Original Message-----
From: Ali J. Al-Sabah <>
To: Robert Hussein <>
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:05 AM
Subject: Re:
>Dear Mr. Hussein
>
>If you are the Kuwaiti Moslem converted to Christianity, yes I know you
from
>the local press a year or so ago.
>
>I could not figure why you changed your name after you converted, you could
>still maintain the old name and still be Christian. There were rumors that
you
>converted due to family reasons. But I will not delve on personal issues.
>
>You pushed the political system to its limit, and that was interesting. I
>remember back in mid 70s Mohamed Rushaid member of parliament wanted to
pass a
>law to deny the new nationalisation (jensia) to Christians, but the
government
>then persuaded him otherwise.
>
>I like your comment about the Parliament as {fercut Habban}, it is very
funny.
>
>Good luck with your endeavors.
>
>Bu Salem
>
>
....................................
Dear Bu Salem,
I would like to thank you for your letter. I'm glad you still remember me
through the press.
I know that I have paid a heavy price too. I lost every thing that
constitutes my individuality and identity as a person when I become a
Christian.
Yes, the Kuwaiti Christians maintained their nationality, but only as
second class citizens.
Every time a crisis occurs in Kuwait, "family reasons" are reportedly behind
them. But they are merely camouflage for the real issues. Case in point:
When the assasination of Abdulla Nibari was attempted, the government of
Kuwait's initial announcement in the press was that it was a "personal
matter."
If it had not been for my situation, and the worldwide attention it
received, the Nibari case would have been lost in the shuffle as merely
another "family case," such as what happened to MP All Joe'an after
Liberation.
I thank you for your reply.
Faithfully,
Bu Jamie
................................
-----Original Message-----
From: Ali J. Al-Sabah <>
To: Robert Hussein <>
Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Bu Jamie
>Dear Mr. Hussein
>
>If I would tell you that Hamad Al-Joan's is personal and that Abdullah's
>could be also the same, you would not believe me. All I suggest is keep an
>open mind.
>
>But I am very disturbed about what you said about the Kuwaiti Christians!
>To say the least. There are respectable people among them. People who stood
>to the Iraqis when they invaded our country. Among them are great medical
>doctors and diplomats. Some of them are dear friends of mine.
>
>You are wrong. When Khalil Shuhaibar died Sheikh Fahad Saad Abdullah
>Al-Sabah and myself went to their Church. When Yusif Shuhaibar died my wife
>and I went to auntie Um Yusif. Many of the Al-Sabah's and prominent
>Kuwaitis went to present their condolences.
>
>Sorry but your view is wrong.
>
>Bu Salem
>
..................................
Dear Abu Salem,
In this world everybody could be wrong. Even the most powerful man on our
planet Earth said "I was wrong." But in our part of our world everybody is
always right. Thank the Lord, when I came to the USA, the first thing I
learned was that I could be wrong.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe not. Maybe mine, Joan's and Nibari's were family
cases. Or maybe the Saudi terrist Asoma bin Laden was behind them. No body
will ever know.
You asked me to be open minded, but you would not like me if I was open
minded.
All the Arab States are the same. Kuwait is no exception. People disappear,
are killed or tortured for what ever reason. Whatever he possesses is taken
away. Nobody knows. Nobody cares.
It was a wonderful gesture for you to visit a Christian family... I'm sure
it meant alot for them to see the Al-Sabah Family visitinig their family.
The reality in Kuwait is that Christians are barely one step obove the
bedoon. The same as the bedoon, they cannot elect or be elected, as also
women do not have a right to voice their rights through the parliament.
When I was condemned in the Palace of Justice, the final judgement said, "In
the name of the Amir Jaber, he should be killed, his children taken away,
all his posessions distributed to his heirs." Why?
All that was dear to me on this Earth was taken away from me. Do you know
why? They took my daughter Najiba to a psychiatrist when she cried to see
her Baba. They could have brought her to me to ease her tears. They did
not. Instead this doctor erased my memory from her mind! Do you have a
daughter, my friend Ali?
I went to appeal my rights to see my children in the court. I was granted 2
hours each Friday, but only under supervision. And neither the court nor
the police would enforce my visitation order. I cannot sit alone with my
own daughter or see her growing up. Do know why?
All homeowners in my district have received their deeds to their homes.
When I asked for mine, Escon asked me, "Are you a Muslim or a Christian?"
Do you know why? I could go on and on and on.
I realize when one is on the summit, you can see a wide panorama, but you
cannot distiguish one thing from the other because everything appears so
small.
The Amir of Kuwait freed all the criminals, but he is not freeing the
innocent, the bedoon, the second class citizens (Mutajinaseen), and the
women. It seems that even the criminals have more rights than legitimate
citizens.
Robert Hussein
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Anonymous
What I dont understand is how a person can switch back and forth from one
stupid religion to another. Could you please explain to us your feelings
when you are doing this. And what made you do that. Is it because of a
girlfriend or a boyfriend or is it because of financial benefits?
Abdalla Alothman
Robert Hussein wrote:
> why? They took my daughter Najiba to a psychiatrist when she cried to see
> her Baba. They could have brought her to me to ease her tears. They did
> not. Instead this doctor erased my memory from her mind!
I must admit, that really breaks the heart.
My friend, when this happened to you, what did you do?
Where you charged by Islamic groups trying to convert you
back to Islam? Where you threatened? Can you please shed
some light on this issue? Did you try publishing your opinion
supported by reliable evidence instead of challenging and
provoking the political Islamic groups?
When you faced Islamic groups, what did you say to them?
Did you use any verses from the Quran to stand up for
your views as in public debates, or something like that?
Now since you are far away from any kind of threat, have
you tried initiating a dialog with the Islamic figures in
Kuwait? You can do it right here on soc.culture.kuwait. :)
> I went to appeal my rights to see my children in the court. I was granted 2
> hours each Friday, but only under supervision. And neither the court nor
> the police would enforce my visitation order. I cannot sit alone with my
> own daughter or see her growing up. Do know why?
That's is really sad. I wonder if you are doing something
about it?
I remember reading about your story, but I didn't know
you went through all this trouble. I just wonder why
did you have to popularize your conversion? I am a Muslim.
As a Muslims, I am obliged to look into my religion and learn
about it. Have you reached any conclusions regarding apostasy
in Islam? Have you tried to challenge Islam by diving into its
sources? Do you know that the Quran clearly mentions apostasy
without any penalty applied by men? The Quran applies no penalty
against an apostate as long as he maintains peace.
In comparison, the Bible clearly spells out the penalty for
apostates. Well, I don't want to push the issue any further
unless you would like to discuss it with an open mind. I respect
your freedom to switch religions--I don't do it from myself. The
Quran gives you such rights as long as you're not a conspirator or
aiming towards spreading a series of tribulations in the society.
I'll include some samples from the Bible and the Quran. If you would
like to talk about that, please feel free to do so.
> All homeowners in my district have received their deeds to their homes.
> When I asked for mine, Escon asked me, "Are you a Muslim or a Christian?"
> Do you know why? I could go on and on and on.
> I realize when one is on the summit, you can see a wide panorama, but you
> cannot distiguish one thing from the other because everything appears so
> small.
What do you plan to do about your property? Are you going to
leave it just like that? You know, I learned a lesson in Kuwait.
Always play the game. If you don't play the game, they'll play it
on you.
So, I suggest you start from step 1. And you should not
slander Islam because it is misrepresented by its people.
You should judge Islam and Christianity as distinct systems.
The Bible, for example, clearly spells out the penalty for
apostasy, while the Quran never does that.
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter,
or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly
entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods"
(gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods
of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one
end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen
to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him.
You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the
first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the
people." [Deuteronomy 13:6-9]
Note, the family and friends are the first ones to put the apostate
to death. The Bible goes much farther by blocking any chance of
showing mercy for the apostate (show no pity), nor does it allow
the people executing the apostate to listen to him, in case he/she
gets terrified and decide to change his/her mind. Moreover, you
get killed immediately if you don't listen to your priest:
"The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest
who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be
put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel."
[Deuteronomy 17:12]
By the way, those laws are not negated by Jesus in
the New Testament. Note that Jesus clearly said that
he came NOT to break the laws:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or
the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to
fulfill them." [Matthew 5:17]
All these laws are not applied now because the Church's
rule is over. Christians are now ruled by secular systems
and democracy. That's why you don't see these laws applied
today.
Whereas in Islam, the basic concept is:
"There is no compulsion in religion." [Quran 2:256]
And:
"Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again)
and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,
Allah will not forgive them nor guide them on the Way."
[Quran 4:137]
Watch the penalty according to the Holy Quran:
"They are those whose recompense is that on them (rests) the
Curse of Allah, of the angels, and of all mankind. They will
abide therein (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened,
nor will it be delayed or postponed (for a while). Except for
those who repent after that and do righteous deeds. Verily, Allah
is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [Quran 3:87-89]
See, the penalty is just a curse.
Muslim scholars derived the penalty to kill an apostate from
Chapter 17 v. 33. And from there, two types of apostates come
to sight. First, an apostate who converts from Islam to another
religion and minds his own faith. And secondly, an apostate who
conspires against the Islamic society. Say for example, you became
a wild missionary trying to convert Kuwaitis, or by writing articles
against Islam. This is what the Quran says:
"The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His
Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall
be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off
on the opposite sides, or be **exiled** from the land. That is
their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in
the Hereafter." [Quran 17:33]
First, the judge punishes with exile (Is that what happened
to you?). Severe punishments are used when damage takes place.
A physical assault to scare or hurt people or something like that
is an example. You know, it's what used to happen in the Christian
Dark Ages: Burning heretics, butchering the Catholics, etc. Crimes
against organized crimes in the Islamic Laws are derived from this
verse as well.
Once an apostate gets involved in such crimes, his status
automatically changes from an apostate to a criminal:
"Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after you had believed.
If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you
**because they were criminals**" [Quran 9:66]
If you don't mind me asking, what Christian denomination do you
belong to? You see, I don't understand how a person can read the
Bible and switch to Christianity. I have nothing against Christians,
but personally, the more I read the Bible, the more my faith in Islam
increases. Did you embrace Christianity to flee from some pressure? In
other words, do you understand your religion, or did you just convert for
another reason? I'd like to talk with you in Christianity if you would
accept discussions related to your respectful faith.
Salam,
Abdalla.
tem...@my-deja.com
robert...@att.net (Robert Hussein) wrote:
> Thank the Lord, when I came to the USA, the first thing
> I learned was that I could be wrong.
Aint that the truth.
> All the Arab States are the same. Kuwait is no exception. People
> disappear, are killed or tortured for what ever reason. Whatever he
> possesses is taken away. Nobody knows. Nobody cares.
Name one Kuwaiti who suddenly "disapeared" or was "killed"?
> The reality in Kuwait is that Christians are barely one step obove
> the bedoon.
Anyone who is a Kuwaiti and truthful, knows this is false.
> The same as the bedoon, they cannot elect or be elected,
You are either not a Kuwaiti, ignorant, or just a plain liar.
> When I was condemned in the Palace of Justice, the final judgement
> said, "In the name of the Amir Jaber, he should be killed, his
> children taken away,
> all his posessions distributed to his heirs." Why?
The Palace of Justice never passed a judgement condemning you to death.
You (if you truly are Robert Hussein) are a liar.
> All that was dear to me on this Earth was taken away from me.
And whose doing was that? You had to be famous for a day, didn't you?
> Do you know
> why? They took my daughter Najiba to a psychiatrist when she cried to
> see her Baba. They could have brought her to me to ease her tears.
> They did
> not. Instead this doctor erased my memory from her mind!
Did this Doctor perform a Lobotomy, or are you just that forgettable?
> I went to appeal my rights to see my children in the court. I was
> granted 2
> hours each Friday, but only under supervision.
Typical in divorce cases.
> And neither the court nor
> the police would enforce my visitation order.
An extremely easy case for even the most incompetant lawyer, if what
you are saying is true, which I highly doubt. In fact, you went to see
a lawyer I know. He told me you were more interested in seeing your
name in "lights", than seeing your daughter. He didn't speak too
highly about your mental stability, either.
> I cannot sit alone with
> my own daughter or see her growing up. Do know why?
Yeah, because you're in the States.
> All homeowners in my district have received their deeds to their
> homes.
> When I asked for mine, Escon asked me, "Are you a Muslim or a
> Christian?"
Total hogwash. You want your deed so you can sell the house so you and
your new American wife can live happily ever after in the States.
Thank God we have laws here, which give joint ownership to public
housing to your wife and kids. You would like nothing better than to
deprive your wife and children of whats rightfully theirs.
> It seems that even the criminals have more rights than legitimate
> citizens.
When you officially accepted US citizenship, by Kuwaiti law, which
prohibits dual citizenship, you forfeited your rights to be a
legitimate Kuwaiti. Good morning.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jasem Al-Enizi
available in Amazon.com. That was the most mis-leading book about Kuwait and
Islam. I was very disappointed with the amount of fabrication put in that
book, there are lies everywhere. I can't turn to the next page without
noticing some sort of exaggeration or propaganda about Kuwait. He pictured
Kuwait to be a dictatorship state where everybody lives in fear from the
government, and everyone spies on his family and friends for the sake of the
"Emir" as he always say. I asked Robert about this before, if he claims to
be the one in this NG, but he did not reply.