Beautiful Language in Asia is Japanese
Gloria Mah
Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
Mandarin Chinese?
Cantonese Chinese?
Korean?
Japanese?
Filipino?
Malay?
Vietnamese?
My opinion is Japanese. Why? because it is a language with
significant amount of vowels with no tonal rules. Of course depending
on the dialect, it is different.
Kansai: fastests and very tonal (it sounds actually like Chinese)
Kyushu: fast and loud but non tonal
Kyoto: slow and tonal
Kanto: moderate and non-tonal (this is the national language of Japan)
Tohoku: very slow and non-tonal with many slurrs and mumbles
Okinawa: totally different language but sounds Japanese (Kanto)
Offical Japanese language is very beautiful because depending on your
age, class, and sex, your way of speaking will differ. Especially how
the women talk in Japan is very beautiful. In Japanese songs, it
flows very well because of their abundance in vowels. They have no
stiff consenant and tongue twisters. It is the most soft and educated
sounding language in Asia I believe.
Japanese is a very beautiful language.
My opinion on other languages.
Mandarin Chinese: Many non-Chinese misunderstand that Chinese is a
fast language with many tones. However, Mandarin in fact only has 5
tones and is very soft. I would say it is another beautiful language.
Cantonese Chinese: Myself being Cantonese, this might sound funny but
it is not a soft language. It is very loud and is choppy. Fast and
sometimes could sound unclassy.
Korean: It sound like Japanese to be honest. But when you look at
their spellings and pronounciations, it is quite different and has
more concenants than the Japanese. It is not a tonal language but is
a little more harsh.
Filipino (Tagalog): This is a language which is not tonal and flows.
However, it is a very stiff language. Actually, amoung the Filipino
languages, it is the most soft language (compared to Visayan languages
etc.). Some Filipinos claim that it sounds like Spanish but I find it
hard to believe. It sounds more like Malay and does have many stiff
tones.
Malay: This language is like Filipino without any Spanish loanwords
and English
Vietnamese: This language is another tonal language but is very
different from Chinese. It tends to mumble and speak slower than its
neighboring Cantonese.
Please don't yell at me or anything. Just remember. This is just my
opinion. People do have different opinion too you know.
Gloria
superlifer
no, no... Japanese sounds like Korean.
Bluewater
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
> Korean: It sound like Japanese to be honest. But when you look at
> their spellings and pronounciations, it is quite different and has
> more concenants than the Japanese. It is not a tonal language but is
> a little more harsh.
>
Perhaps Stravisky and Mozart sound similar to you?
Peter L
"Bluewater" <Blue...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:al5eto$bbh$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Who is Stravisky?
>
1...@abc.com
the two atomic bombs dropped onto them..
Bluewater
"Peter L" <pete...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:al5fsh$1ncb3l$1...@ID-110472.news.dfncis.de...
Jack's Hand
1...@abc.com wrote:
> To most Asians, the only beautiful thing about Japan is the memory of
> the two atomic bombs dropped onto them..
>
Not this one. And I'm not Japanese.
plonk.
Jack's Hand
me. I've heard both Mandarin and Cantonese spoken both lyrically or
harshly. Personally, I've always thought that Cantonese was a little
more 'songlike' due to the fact that it had so many more inflections
than Mandarin (or so it seems).
I've only heard a couple people speak Korean and Japanese, but these
languages often sounded like mumbling. Perhaps this isn't due to the
language itself, but may be a cultural issue here in which the
individuals tend to speak in more hushed tones?
Can't speak to the other more 'southern' Asian languages.
klmok
wrote:
>
>
>Please don't yell at me or anything. Just remember. This is just my
>opinion. People do have different opinion too you know.
>
>Gloria
Wow. Do your really know that many languages as to be able to figure
out their nuances?
I can only count four where I can tell the difference whether I am
being flattererd or insulted. Wouldn't dare to speak a sentence in
any of them. In the end I think that's what matters. If you feel
comfortable speaking that language where you can make your self
understood in polite language that language sounds real nice.
My experience with the Japanese language and Japanese native customs
is mainly from movies, especially samurai movies. The longest one
where Japanese was spoken was that TV miniseries Shogun with Richard
Chamberlain. Japanese there (and in many other movies and in real
life situations) sound really harsh and aggressive with the Shogun
down shouting at others to establish he is the boss. He would lose
respect if he spoke any gentler to the kitchen help. Oops my mistake,
I meant his underlings. A lord would never sink so low as to speak to
the kitchen help. The husband shouts down the wife and his kids for
the same reason. Now if you are lower ranking you better be prepared
to bow a lot and say "hai" smartly or get a cuff in the ear.
The darn thing is that this kind of social ranking and shouting seems
to be practiced in real life too. If I meet a Japanese who is lower
ranking he makes me very uncomfortable with all those "hais," a bowing
and something just short of grovelling. If I meet some Japanese of
higher rank I am always wondering if I grovelled enough and since I
didn't the meeting probably didn't go off well.
Of course a majority of Japanese are nothing like that and are
throughly pleasant people who get along well with other races. But
until that freindliness is established the first conact is always like
a minefield where you have to watch what the other Japanese person
says or do.
Goldfinger
"Jack's Hand" <bigstr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D76451...@hotmail.com...
> Largely, it depends on the individual that is speaking the language, to
> me. I've heard both Mandarin and Cantonese spoken both lyrically or
> harshly. Personally, I've always thought that Cantonese was a little
> more 'songlike' due to the fact that it had so many more inflections
> than Mandarin (or so it seems).
It does depend on whom the speaker is. JZM or other CCP cronies speaking
Mandarin sounds like Hitler is out to conquer the world again. But the
Beijing tougue is actually very soft, espcially those spoken by a true
Beijing lady.
But Cantonese is definately not more songlike, you probably get that
impression from listening to Canton Pop. Some people say that listening to
two Cantonese talk, you will think they are figthing.
> I've only heard a couple people speak Korean and Japanese, but these
> languages often sounded like mumbling. Perhaps this isn't due to the
> language itself, but may be a cultural issue here in which the
> individuals tend to speak in more hushed tones?
I agree. In general, I would rank Mandarin Chinese and Japanese the top two
languages in Asia.
> Can't speak to the other more 'southern' Asian languages.
My impression of Vietnamese or Thai is that they feature too many "boing" or
"oing" sound.
Jack's Hand
Goldfinger wrote:
> "Jack's Hand" <bigstr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3D76451...@hotmail.com...
>
>>Largely, it depends on the individual that is speaking the language, to
>>me. I've heard both Mandarin and Cantonese spoken both lyrically or
>>harshly. Personally, I've always thought that Cantonese was a little
>>more 'songlike' due to the fact that it had so many more inflections
>>than Mandarin (or so it seems).
>>
>
> It does depend on whom the speaker is. JZM or other CCP cronies speaking
> Mandarin sounds like Hitler is out to conquer the world again. But the
> Beijing tougue is actually very soft, espcially those spoken by a true
> Beijing lady.
>
> But Cantonese is definately not more songlike, you probably get that
> impression from listening to Canton Pop. Some people say that listening to
> two Cantonese talk, you will think they are figthing.
I definitely don't get it from Cantonese Pop music. I'd rather poke my
eyes out than listen to ANY Chinese pop music. But yeah, I've heard the
style of speech from Cantonese speakers that you speak of. If you can
hear it spoken from an individual who isn't speaking so harshly (rare,
but it does happen) then you'll see (hear) what I mean.
>
Lisa Shiffman
>
> Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
I'm not familiar enough with Asian languages so I couldn't intelligently
comment on your question. With regards to the languages I do know though, I
find that the speaker, or the region they are from really determines
whether the language sounds nice or not. Italian opera sounds beautiful.
Italian spoken by two men on the street in Sorrento sounds like they are
about to get into a fist fight. Korean spoken by a Korean women amongst
friends sounds nice. Korean spoken by a Korean woman to a superior sounds
annoying (too soft and sucky sounding.) An English speaker from Toronto
sounds "sloppy" to me (dropping letters, slurring words together.) A
speaker from Alberta sounds clearer, and seems to enunciate more than a
speaker from the east. I guess the situation/geography determines whether
or not I like the sound of any language.
Foolish Mortal
>
> Offical Japanese language is very beautiful because depending on your
> age, class, and sex, your way of speaking will differ. Especially how
> the women talk in Japan is very beautiful. In Japanese songs, it
>
I agree. I'm accustomed to hearing the Japanese language this way.
> snipped...
>
> Please don't yell at me or anything. Just remember. This is just my
> opinion. People do have different opinion too you know.
>
> Gloria
It's too bad that people may get yelled at for their personal opinions.
Verse
proper English makes the language sound much "classier" than Billy Bob from
Kentucky does. Mandarin (mainland) is a soft and flowing sounding language,
but it sounds harsher when Taiwanese yell it. Cantonese may sound horrible
because it sounds like people are yelling at each other, but that's just how
Cantonese people are use to speaking. Japanese sounds nice because Japanese
people are generally very polite, that's just their culture.
So in the end, it's useless to say what's the best sounding language, best
looking people, etc. It's never going to be agreed on.
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
Brigitte Yves
But, the most beautiful language in Asia is English.
I don't like that, either.
Anyhow, this is the language being used in this forum.
Need I say more?
BEY
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> This is killing time.
> But, the most beautiful language in Asia is English.
> I don't like that, either.
> Anyhow, this is the language being used in this forum.
> Need I say more?
> BEY
Unlike you, I don't mind that at all if it is true, but it is not, at
least not to me.
Eric
Ghetti Spa
J Yuan
> "Jack's Hand" <bigstr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3D76451...@hotmail.com...
> > Largely, it depends on the individual that is speaking the language, to
> > me. I've heard both Mandarin and Cantonese spoken both lyrically or
> > harshly. Personally, I've always thought that Cantonese was a little
> > more 'songlike' due to the fact that it had so many more inflections
> > than Mandarin (or so it seems).
>
> It does depend on whom the speaker is. JZM or other CCP cronies speaking
> Mandarin sounds like Hitler is out to conquer the world again. But the
> Beijing tougue is actually very soft, espcially those spoken by a true
> Beijing lady.
Oh wait! have you heard Shen Shui Bian's Mandarin?
leon yin
very good idea of what Japanese sounds like. First of all, it's not
all like the female anime/flight attendant soft unaccented
'hajimemashite's. Japanese can get awfully crass sounding (almost
similar to Cantonese brawls) on some occassions. The Japanese 'Hai's
also remind me of Cantonese Hai, Haiya (in fact Japanese borrowed the
Cantonese 'Hai' for yes/correct because it seemed more assertive yet
subordinate than the original 'so').
Mandarin is also dual sided as well. I've yet to hear one crass
sounding female Mandarin voice from the intercom on my flights. But
then, as we all know Mandarin can sound like a tongue twisting
nightmare as well as like Hitler announcing the Third Reich.
kl...@shaw.ca (klmok) wrote in message news:<3d765057....@shawnews.ed.shawcable.net>...
Brigitte Yves
an interaction or a human communication tool.
All languages are beautiful as long as they server their functions.
Well, it doesn't change the fact that English is a dominated
language in Asia. Even in Vietnam, the school children choose
to learn English over French. Assumed that you were monolingual
in one of the Asian languages and knew not a word of English.
Can you use monolingual skills to communication people well with whom
don't know your native tongue?
BEY
Jun Miyamoto
In article <cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com>,
Gloria Mah <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Question time.
>
>Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
Why did you leave out Hebrew? Israel is in Asia.
Jun Miyamoto
This is very true and Japanese doesn't require distinct accents and
intonations. It feels like they never get emotional.
I still don't know they communicate with each other
effectively without using much of intonation.
If you hear some of the Finno-Ugric languages like
Estonian or Magyar or Finnish, you feel the same. It sounds so flat
compared
say, with Russian or English. I however as a native speaker
of Japanese, I appreciate the richness of suffixes in some languages.
You can do almost anything with suffixes as in Estonian(Turkish is
rich in the same regard) whereas western languages are very rich
in prepositions.
In article <lLud9.93099$GK2....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
leon yin
Gloria...@hotmail.com (Gloria Mah) wrote in message news:<cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com>...
> Question time.
>
> Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
> My opinion is Japanese. Why? because it is a language with
> significant amount of vowels with no tonal rules. Of course depending
> on the dialect, it is different.
No, also depending on who is speaking and what he/she is speaking it
for; along with the mood, the temper, and the attitude.
> Offical Japanese language is very beautiful because depending on your
> age, class, and sex, your way of speaking will differ. Especially how
> the women talk in Japan is very beautiful. In Japanese songs, it
> flows very well because of their abundance in vowels. They have no
> stiff consenant and tongue twisters. It is the most soft and educated
> sounding language in Asia I believe.
> Japanese is a very beautiful language.
Actually, Japanese songs tend not to be slow, because their vowel
system is way too simple with only -a, -e, -o, -u, -i, -ai, -yu, -ya,
-yo, and a few others, plus -n endings. The language doesn't have an
abundance of vowels. True, it is easier to rhyme in a song, but not
necessarily exciting or pleasant to the ears as it quickly becomes
monotonous with only the volume of the voice to break the monotony;
hence your banshee like sudden screamings in most anime intro songs.
Honestly, Japanese in songs sound more instrumental than vocal (again
due to too simple of a vowel system).
> My opinion on other languages.
>
> Mandarin Chinese: Many non-Chinese misunderstand that Chinese is a
> fast language with many tones. However, Mandarin in fact only has 5
> tones and is very soft. I would say it is another beautiful language.
You mean four tones (flat, up, twist, and down) and one neutral
register. The Mandarin tones are actually pronounced in everyday
conversational English as well, you just don't think of it as tones
when speaking English. Yes, Mandarin is very beautiful at times
(conversation, films) but like Japanese can sound also very crass and
hard (command, lecture, times when the voiced is raised).
> Cantonese Chinese: Myself being Cantonese, this might sound funny but
> it is not a soft language. It is very loud and is choppy. Fast and
> sometimes could sound unclassy.
No, Cantonese is not a soft language, esp. rural Cantonese. Urban
Cantonese (HK dialect) is slightly more pleasing, but tend to mumble
and slur a lot. There's the annoying 'ng' sound in every 4-5
syllables, adding to the mumble of low pitch resonant nasal noise. A
few tonal pitches and sounds are actually difficult for most
non-Cantonese Chinese to even think of pronouncing (starting with the
word I/me, ngo).
> Korean: It sound like Japanese to be honest. But when you look at
> their spellings and pronounciations, it is quite different and has
> more concenants than the Japanese. It is not a tonal language but is
> a little more harsh.
No it doesn't sound like Japanese. It only does so when you listen to
Korean teenage pop songs (SES, etc). Korean has a far more complicated
vowel system as well as a much larger set of initial and final
consonants than Japanese. To a non-Asian language speaker, Korean
sometimes sound very much like Mandarin (due to its similar vowels,
ai, ang, ong/ung, eng and similar initial consonants like j/ch/zh and
Mandarin being also a northern language). However if you listen
carefully, you notice the final consonants m, b, p, k, g, l
(especially the l, as in il or al) that is present in Korean but
Mandarin lacks. Additionally, Korean words are sometimes accented
with exaggeration and sentences end with an intonation that makes it
seem tonal to an outsider (even though they have no idea what they are
talking about since that is usu not even present in REAL tonal
languages like Mandarin). Mandarin is tonal in a linguistic sense,
not because it may sound 'tonal' (extreme varying exaggerated
accents/pitches). Hence to those that think Korean is 'tonal'
sounding, Mandarin would probably not sound 'tonal' to them even
though it is actually a tonal language. Again, the Mandarin tones
(flat, up, twist, and down pitches) are also found in English; you
just don't think of the different pitches used for the same vowel when
speaking English (hence English is not tonal but Mandarin is, although
Mandarin's tones do not go beyond the limits of English's pitches
either).
ex: the 'e' /ei/ in English desk (up pitch) and test (down pitch).
> Filipino (Tagalog): This is a language which is not tonal and flows.
> However, it is a very stiff language. Actually, amoung the Filipino
> languages, it is the most soft language (compared to Visayan languages
> etc.). Some Filipinos claim that it sounds like Spanish but I find it
> hard to believe. It sounds more like Malay and does have many stiff
> tones.
>
> Malay: This language is like Filipino without any Spanish loanwords
> and English
>
> Vietnamese: This language is another tonal language but is very
> different from Chinese. It tends to mumble and speak slower than its
> neighboring Cantonese.
hehe. I often have trouble telling apart Cantonese from Vietnamese.
But that was because I never heard Vietnamese then and just assumed
crass sounding rural Cantonese was Vietnamese. In reality now that
I've heard Vietnamese on a daily basis for a while, Vietnamese sounds
***A LOT WORSE***. How dare me to even say rural Cantonese is similar
to Vietnamese. Some pitches seem impossible for my vocal cords to
even mimic. But it's seeing the Vietnamese guys pronounce some of
those words that make me cringe. Please correct me if you can find
some good pleasant clips of Vietnamese in action (I want to be
corrected!!).
Vicky
>
>In article <cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com>,
>Gloria Mah <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Question time.
>>
>>Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
>
>Why did you leave out Hebrew? Israel is in Asia.
And Turkish, Arabic, Punjabi , Sindhi , Siraiki, Pashtu, Urdu ,
Balochi , Hindko , Brahui , Bengali , Telugu , Marathi , Tamil,
Gujarati , Malayalam , Kannada , Oriya , Punjabi, Assamese , Kashmiri,
Hindustani, Russian, Tajik, Kurdish, Assyrian, Armenian, Kazakh,
Maldivian Dhivehi to name but a few.
--
Vicky
Daniel Paik
i didn't know what language this was but then it hit me. i'm headed off to
maldives in a couple of months so i should have known better.
Dan.
--
RVD...The Whole Dam Show
i was bored one day and ended up making http://www.hanguk.com/~danpaik
Velella...27 ft Catalina. home port: Redondo Beach, CA.
Stik
on [insert country here]'s [blank] is better than
[insert another country here]'s [blank].
Obviously, a person with a beautiful voice will make certain
language sound better. So, now, do you think we should talk
about which Asian country's population has better voice in general?
Stik
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
There are other definitions. For example, how it sounds.
How effective and efficient it communicates an idea among those who
know the language. How rich and complex and descriptive it is,
etc., etc.
Eric
Stik
For those of you with thick skulls, here is a question for you.
Which writer has written the best sounding song?
Stik
eunma
> flows very well because of their abundance in vowels.
By abundance, do you mean that they are used frequently, or that there
are a lot of different vowels in the language?
Japanese only has five vowels (ah, i, e, o, u) , and there are no
diphthongs or tripthongs. This isn't necessarily a bad thing because
it makes it considerably more easier to write Japanese words using the
English alphabet.
joe
Singha Jam
>
> Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
>
> Mandarin Chinese?
> Cantonese Chinese?
> Korean?
> Japanese?
> Filipino?
> Malay?
> Vietnamese?
>
Vietnamese. I think it was described by the early French settlers as
sounding like birds singing, or something like that.
Brigitte Yves
languages, she, he or it couldn't tell which language has better syntactic,
dictional and vocal system than the others. Therefore, it all coming back
the very beginning -- this topic is a waste of time.
Enough said, no more no less.
BEY
Eric Chang wrote:
>That's just your definition.
>
>There are other definitions. For example, how it sounds.
>How effective and efficient it communicates an idea among those who
>know the language. How rich and complex and descriptive it is,
>etc., etc.
>
>Eric
>
>In soc.culture.china Brigitte Yves <brig...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>> My definition of beauty in a language is meant to be
>> an interaction or a human communication tool.
>> All languages are beautiful as long as they serve their functions.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
Linguists can compare languages without mastering them. Not a big deal.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
Have you heard Burmese? They end many sentences with a musical "ling"
sound, at least that's what I heard when flipped to a Burmese news
program.
Eric
Oguzxan
(Turkmen to be exact) also very interested in the subject of languages
specifically Altaic languages and their similarities.
I used to live in Chicago where there is a relatively large Korean community
there. First time I heard Korean radio program I thought I was listening to
a Turkic/Turkish dialect may be a less known dialect like Yakut or Chuvash,
most Turkic languages are mutually intelligible with a little effort however
Yakut and Chuvash due to their geographical isolation from the rest of the
Turkic languages are almost non intelligible to others. Any how now I have
much more understanding of Korean language and I have to say that the
similarities are striking, specially the sentence structure, the sounds,
vowel harmony ,addition of suffixes to root verb to make new verbs and
words.
An interesting example:
English: go don't go
Korean (informal): ka ka-jima
Turkish/Turkic: git git-ma
Regards
OguzXan
"leon yin" <masa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:265898cc.02090...@posting.google.com...
Hoklo Taiwanese
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
> Question time.
>
> Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
>
> Mandarin Chinese?
> Cantonese Chinese?
> Korean?
> Japanese?
> Filipino?
> Malay?
> Vietnamese?
>
> My opinion is Japanese. Why? because it is a language with
> significant amount of vowels with no tonal rules. Of course depending
> on the dialect, it is different.
> Kansai: fastests and very tonal (it sounds actually like Chinese)
> Kyushu: fast and loud but non tonal
> Kyoto: slow and tonal
> Kanto: moderate and non-tonal (this is the national language of Japan)
> Tohoku: very slow and non-tonal with many slurrs and mumbles
> Okinawa: totally different language but sounds Japanese (Kanto)
>
> Offical Japanese language is very beautiful because depending on your
> age, class, and sex, your way of speaking will differ. Especially how
> the women talk in Japan is very beautiful. In Japanese songs, it
> flows very well because of their abundance in vowels. They have no
> stiff consenant and tongue twisters. It is the most soft and educated
> sounding language in Asia I believe.
> Japanese is a very beautiful language.
>
> My opinion on other languages.
>
> Mandarin Chinese: Many non-Chinese misunderstand that Chinese is a
> fast language with many tones. However, Mandarin in fact only has 5
> tones and is very soft. I would say it is another beautiful language.
>
> Cantonese Chinese: Myself being Cantonese, this might sound funny but
> it is not a soft language. It is very loud and is choppy. Fast and
> sometimes could sound unclassy.
>
> Korean: It sound like Japanese to be honest. But when you look at
> their spellings and pronounciations, it is quite different and has
> more concenants than the Japanese. It is not a tonal language but is
> a little more harsh.
>
> Filipino (Tagalog): This is a language which is not tonal and flows.
> However, it is a very stiff language. Actually, amoung the Filipino
> languages, it is the most soft language (compared to Visayan languages
> etc.). Some Filipinos claim that it sounds like Spanish but I find it
> hard to believe. It sounds more like Malay and does have many stiff
> tones.
>
> Malay: This language is like Filipino without any Spanish loanwords
> and English
>
> Vietnamese: This language is another tonal language but is very
> different from Chinese. It tends to mumble and speak slower than its
> neighboring Cantonese.
>
Hoklo Taiwanese
do you consider yourself a typical HK japanophile?
> Gloria
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
Is Japanophilia common in HK. That would be counter to my experience.
Taiwan, perhaps.
Eric
>> Gloria
Hoklo Taiwanese
used in asia overall. people speak crappy english if they do speak it. so
how can english be "beautiful' in asia? on the contrary, english in asia is
rather ugly.
"Brigitte Yves" <brig...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:al629h$17p$1...@flood.xnet.com...
Hoklo Taiwanese
> Cantonese 'Hai' for yes/correct
huh? where ya get this?
"leon yin" <masa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:265898cc.02090...@posting.google.com...
Hoklo Taiwanese
> but it sounds harsher when Taiwanese yell it.
uh, you mean the older generation of native taiwanese (hoklos)? the
"waishen" taiwanese and the young ones speak better, clearer mandarin than
the beijing folks, in my opinion.
>Japanese sounds nice because Japanese
> people are generally very polite, that's just their culture.
you watch too much movies. have you heard a bunch of japanese speaking when
they're with their pals?
"Verse" <dontw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NEtd9.1098$TV.85...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> It depends on who is speaking the language. A British person speaking
> proper English makes the language sound much "classier" than Billy Bob
from
> Kentucky does. Mandarin (mainland) is a soft and flowing sounding
language,
> but it sounds harsher when Taiwanese yell it. Cantonese may sound
horrible
> because it sounds like people are yelling at each other, but that's just
how
> Cantonese people are use to speaking. Japanese sounds nice because
Japanese
> people are generally very polite, that's just their culture.
>
> So in the end, it's useless to say what's the best sounding language, best
> looking people, etc. It's never going to be agreed on.
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
>> Cantonese 'Hai' for yes/correct
> huh? where ya get this?
I don't know Cantonese, but I also thought 'hai' in Cantonese is
like "shi" in Mandarin. Eg. "hai ya hai ya", "hai me?"
Eric
Hoklo Taiwanese
speakers?
"Stik" <stikky...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:al686r$1nj4ko$1...@ID-87802.news.dfncis.de...
Stik
news:XiBd9.362697$UU1.60708@sccrnsc03...
> duh! how about ASSuming these languages are spoken by educated, polite
> speakers?
What?!
sunnyday
although I know nothing of what I'm hearing. LOL. Maybe it's the vowels like
you said, maybe it's the monotone. I especially like the Japanese girls
speaking.
As for Korean, I'd rank it second alongside Mandarin from China. Mandarin
from Taiwan is not that nice sounding and certainly not Mandarin from
Singapore. I do agree Cantonese is annoying to non-speakers although it's my
favourite Chinese dialect. Its 9 intonations (am I right?) make the dialect
sound like singing in different notes. Very very annoying to non-speakers.
As for the most unpleasant sounding language, I'd say Thai. No offense
please, I apologise, I mean I love Thai people (they are one of the nicest
on earth) but their language sounds like a mess to me. Just a view.
Verse
or bad depending on the speaker. And yes, my views of real Japanese culture
are primarily based on what I've seen on tv and film, but it doesn't mean
that it's not true that most Japanese are very polite. And I have seen
Japanese people just chatting away loudly, which is my entire point.. that
even Japanese can sound harsh and ugly if it's spoken in that tone.
"Hoklo Taiwanese" <jh...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9dBd9.362622$UU1.60479@sccrnsc03...
Michael Khan
Gloria Mah wrote:
>
> Question time.
>
> Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
>
> Mandarin Chinese?
> Cantonese Chinese?
> Korean?
> Japanese?
> Filipino?
> Malay?
> Vietnamese?
Bengali.
Declan Murphy
It is always lovely to read a completely unbiased opinion in scj :-)
Victoria.Spelling
<jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>duh! how about ASSuming these languages are spoken by educated, polite
>speakers?
>
And heard by educated, polite, listeners?
As someone who only half speaks Japanese I find it hard to
determine who is educated and, sometimes, polite.
Perhaps we should ingnore all opinions from people who aren't
Asian and invalidate any of their opinions if they aren't fluent
in the language. At he same time they could give an opinion on
who is the most (and least) polite. But the most polite might
feel it difficult to give an honest opinion so we ought to
eliminate those too. This is getting very complicated.
Hoklo Taiwanese
yeah many taiwanese are japanophiles....including the 60+ year olds.
"Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}" <ecc...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:al6m84$2ekj$2...@agate.berkeley.edu...
Hoklo Taiwanese
compare the sounding (albeit very subjective) of these languages.
"Stik" <stikky...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:al6pek$1n3752$1...@ID-87802.news.dfncis.de...
Hoklo Taiwanese
"Victoria.Spelling" <victoria...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1p5enu84anomebvbg...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 04:44:39 GMT, "Hoklo Taiwanese"
> <jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >duh! how about ASSuming these languages are spoken by educated, polite
> >speakers?
> >
>
> And heard by educated, polite, listeners?
good idea.
> As someone who only half speaks Japanese I find it hard to
> determine who is educated and, sometimes, polite.
jesus. how about this? let's pick the top news anchor woman from each of
these countries and let them speak a paragraph of words in their own
language. and you decide which language pleases you and which annoys
you...on a scale from 1 to 10.
> Perhaps we should ingnore all opinions from people who aren't
> Asian and invalidate any of their opinions if they aren't fluent
> in the language. At he same time they could give an opinion on
> who is the most (and least) polite. But the most polite might
> feel it difficult to give an honest opinion so we ought to
> eliminate those too. This is getting very complicated.
polite, educated, white listener, asian listener, whatever. as long as the
factor(s) are the same for all the languaged being compared.
if one song can be more pleasing to listen to than another, then there's no
reason why one language can be more pleasing to hear than another.
leon yin
> Taiwan, perhaps.
>
It is in Korea. But more so in Taiwan. Hell the former Taiwanese
president Lee Tenghui even claims he's Japanese and writes his diary
in Japanese. This is what we call "children worshipping the mothers'
rapists" syndrome. disgusting.
klmok
<jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>jesus. how about this? let's pick the top news anchor woman from each of
>these countries and let them speak a paragraph of words in their own
>language. and you decide which language pleases you and which annoys
>you...on a scale from 1 to 10.
>
You have identified an excellent test.
Not only is her enunciation informative but the official image of how
their news anchor should present herself is a very good indication of
how their ideal woman should appear and sound in public. Do her
tonal inflections sound musical or are they flat. Does she smile a
lot? What's her makeup like? Is she animated? Are he clothes
tastefully fashionable or are they proletariat grey?
In other words the lady TV news anchor is usually the epitome of a
country's ideal intelligent and beautiful woman. Thus when she speaks
her native language does she come across as your idea of a beautiful
woman or a mother in law from hell?
Victoria.Spelling
<jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>"Victoria.Spelling" <victoria...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:1p5enu84anomebvbg...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 04:44:39 GMT, "Hoklo Taiwanese"
>> <jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >duh! how about ASSuming these languages are spoken by educated, polite
>> >speakers?
>> >
>>
>> And heard by educated, polite, listeners?
>
>good idea.
>
>> As someone who only half speaks Japanese I find it hard to
>> determine who is educated and, sometimes, polite.
>
>jesus. how about this? let's pick the top news anchor woman from each of
>these countries and let them speak a paragraph of words in their own
>language. and you decide which language pleases you and which annoys
>you...on a scale from 1 to 10.
>
>> Perhaps we should ingnore all opinions from people who aren't
>> Asian and invalidate any of their opinions if they aren't fluent
>> in the language. At he same time they could give an opinion on
>> who is the most (and least) polite. But the most polite might
>> feel it difficult to give an honest opinion so we ought to
>> eliminate those too. This is getting very complicated.
>
>polite, educated, white listener, asian listener, whatever. as long as the
>factor(s) are the same for all the languaged being compared.
Sorry, I was being facetious.
>if one song can be more pleasing to listen to than another, then there's no
>reason why one language can be more pleasing to hear than another.
If we had a worldwide poll of favourite songs then you would see
demographic and cultural favourites.
The point is you can never really find the most beautiful
language as it is subjective to the listener.
Their are many more Americans that read these groups than
Koreans, (perhaps). So the opinion of the Americans would
dominate the results over the Koreans.
For example, If you asked what was everyones favourite food then
this is biased by their experience of food. The Americans like
hamburgers and there are a lot of them. If the best Korean chefs
made the best Korean food and the best American chefs cooked up
the best hamburgers they possibly could, the Hamburger would win
no matter how well the food was prepared. So the presenter of the
sensation (be it taste or sound) is unimportant and as
unimportant as the quality of the receiver when taking a poll as
both cross cultural boundaries.
It's interesting to ask peoples opinion but it is foolish to any
attach meaning to it.
Hey, that's Usenet!
Huitman Huang
especially spoken by girls. Sometimes it reminds me of those South-Euro/Hispanic
languages. Do you know Wu dialect of eastern China? Which sounds quite like
Japanese. Many Korean pronunciations are sort of like Cantonese ones, in my
opinion.
> Gloria
>
Brigitte Yves
Otherwise, you are only barking up the wrong tree. Maybe it is the food
you ate making you barking like crazy. How can a group of people eat that?
Mr. Lee Teng-hui was a Japanese citizen when Taiwan was under
IJE's administration from 1895 to 1945. And then from 1945 to 1951
under the UN charter of self-determination, the people of Taiwan
could have exercised their fundamental human rights if Chiang thugs
and their troop had not arrived in Taiwan and raped the Taiwanese from 1945
to 1947. Thousands and thousands of Taiwanese were systematically
round-up and killed without court hearings. Bloody Chinese butchers are all
alike, from Mao, Chiang, Deng to Jiang.
Need I say more? Pity as usual for a little red commie barking!
BEY
Jun Miyamoto
Something-phila has become a buzzword since the scandals in the
Catholic church came into light lately but I think media and
we individuals started overusing and misusing the term.
I am aware some Japanese pop culture deeply penetrated into
other Asian countries(especially youth culture) and some governments
have shown great concern over the Japanese influence. But calling
them Japanphilia may not be an accurate observation.
When it comes to Taiwan, some people don't want to have anything to do
with the Red China. Being in tune with the Japanese pop culture
helps them keep their mind off the influence from the Red China.
If you are overly nationalistic, this may annoy you. In fact
you can find similar examples in other cultures. For example,
if you are a Mexican American and date a white American, your
family and siblings may accuse you for selling off. Some radical
mexican and black americans(not so much Asian americans though)
believe they are being oppressed by the White America even today,
many years after civil rights were attained by the minorities.
Also I have met some Taiwanese intellectuals who are deeply into
Japanese culture and philosophy and literature. It seems they
are fascinated by something their mother culture didn't offer.
Are they selling off or is it just their hobby?
In an open society(internet, TV and shortwave radios etc), even
sensorship cannot do much to control
the mass. Those young people who are into Japanese animes and
goods(pen cases, notebooks with cartoon characters etc) are not necessarily less Chinese
or Korean than their parents. They are just tasting new things that other
cultures offer just like eating McDonalds and pizzas. The painful history doesn't stop them from
exploring.
Many Americans wear what they call kimonos(simple oriental looking
bathrobes), put tatami matresses in their home and gourmet sushi
making has become the norm for parties these days. Does that make
them Japanese or sell off their mother culture?
In article <265898cc.02090...@posting.google.com>,
ugly duckling
> In an open society(internet, TV and shortwave radios etc), even
> sensorship cannot do much to control
> the mass. Those young people who are into Japanese animes and
> goods(pen cases, notebooks with cartoon characters etc) are not
necessarily less Chinese
> or Korean than their parents. They are just tasting new things that other
> cultures offer just like eating McDonalds and pizzas. The painful history
doesn't stop them from
> exploring.
This is so true. There is nothing wrong with cultural exchange.
What really bothers these sino-centric sons of bitches is that
the are no longer the center of that influence. That's why these
morons waste their time arguing which came from where...
What does it matter? As long as you use it for goodness sake...
In fact this sino-centric mentality has been the main factor that kept
Asians from advancing into bright future... and from coming
to Christ.
Thank you for the good point.
ugly duckling
Gloria Mah
> To most Asians, the only beautiful thing about Japan is the memory of
> the two atomic bombs dropped onto them..
>
You are a sick man.
Gloria
Gloria Mah
Japanese is not only "Shogun" and "Samurai" talking. Think, in
military, do you think the generals will say "come on everybody, let's
go and run." in a soft tone? Not likely.
Gloria Mah
Gloria
masa...@yahoo.com (leon yin) wrote in message news:<265898cc.02090...@posting.google.com>...
Gloria Mah
> "Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Offical Japanese language is very beautiful because depending on your
> > age, class, and sex, your way of speaking will differ. Especially how
> > the women talk in Japan is very beautiful. In Japanese songs, it
> >
>
>
> > snipped...
> >
> > Please don't yell at me or anything. Just remember. This is just my
> > opinion. People do have different opinion too you know.
> >
> > Gloria
>
I know, it is hard. Thanks
Gloria
Gloria Mah
> It depends on who is speaking the language. A British person speaking
> proper English makes the language sound much "classier" than Billy Bob from
> Kentucky does. Mandarin (mainland) is a soft and flowing sounding language,
> but it sounds harsher when Taiwanese yell it. Cantonese may sound horrible
> because it sounds like people are yelling at each other, but that's just how
> Cantonese people are use to speaking. Japanese sounds nice because Japanese
> people are generally very polite, that's just their culture.
>
> So in the end, it's useless to say what's the best sounding language, best
> looking people, etc. It's never going to be agreed on.
Yes, true indeed.
Gloria
Gloria Mah
> >Mandarin (mainland) is a soft and flowing sounding language,
> > but it sounds harsher when Taiwanese yell it.
>
> uh, you mean the older generation of native taiwanese (hoklos)? the
> "waishen" taiwanese and the young ones speak better, clearer mandarin than
> the beijing folks, in my opinion.
>
> >Japanese sounds nice because Japanese
> > people are generally very polite, that's just their culture.
>
> you watch too much movies. have you heard a bunch of japanese speaking when
> they're with their pals?
Have you ever heard us speak when we are with our pals? Listen to
yourself for a change. It is loud too. But I'm proud about it. I'm
not ashamed of being Cantonese at all. This is our language. But the
thing is, Japanese is very beautiful. You have never heard Japanese
language in a fair perspective.
Gloria.
Gloria Mah
> In article <cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com>,
> Gloria Mah <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Question time.
> >
> >Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
>
>
When we say Asia, it usually is focused on the far east. Israel is
the Middle Eastern country. I should have used Oriental to be exact
perhaps.
Gloria Mah
>
> Gloria...@hotmail.com (Gloria Mah) wrote in message news:<cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com>...
> > Question time.
> >
> > Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
> > significant amount of vowels with no tonal rules. Of course depending
> > on the dialect, it is different.
>
> for; along with the mood, the temper, and the attitude.
True, but in overall sense I am saying.
> > Offical Japanese language is very beautiful because depending on your
> > age, class, and sex, your way of speaking will differ. Especially how
> > the women talk in Japan is very beautiful. In Japanese songs, it
> > flows very well because of their abundance in vowels. They have no
> > stiff consenant and tongue twisters. It is the most soft and educated
> > sounding language in Asia I believe.
> > Japanese is a very beautiful language.
>
> Actually, Japanese songs tend not to be slow, because their vowel
> system is way too simple with only -a, -e, -o, -u, -i, -ai, -yu, -ya,
> -yo, and a few others, plus -n endings. The language doesn't have an
> abundance of vowels. True, it is easier to rhyme in a song, but not
> necessarily exciting or pleasant to the ears as it quickly becomes
> monotonous with only the volume of the voice to break the monotony;
> hence your banshee like sudden screamings in most anime intro songs.
> Honestly, Japanese in songs sound more instrumental than vocal (again
> due to too simple of a vowel system).
Just like english. five vowels. But the difference is, Japanese
always have vowels in their words and it is like a constant
interchange between a vowel and a concenants or just simply vowels.
Japanese vowels exist in every alphabet they have.
a i u e o
ka ki ku ke ko
sa si su se so
ta ti tu te to
na ni nu ne no
etc
instead of ng, the Japanese pronounce it as n. Very soft indeed.
Honestly, with pride, Cantonese in sound sounds more like instrumental
and Japanese sounds like vocal. I have to disagree with you here.
>
> > My opinion on other languages.
> >
> > Mandarin Chinese: Many non-Chinese misunderstand that Chinese is a
> > fast language with many tones. However, Mandarin in fact only has 5
> > tones and is very soft. I would say it is another beautiful language.
>
> You mean four tones (flat, up, twist, and down) and one neutral
> register. The Mandarin tones are actually pronounced in everyday
> conversational English as well, you just don't think of it as tones
> when speaking English. Yes, Mandarin is very beautiful at times
> (conversation, films) but like Japanese can sound also very crass and
> hard (command, lecture, times when the voiced is raised).
Just like any other languages in the world.
> > Cantonese Chinese: Myself being Cantonese, this might sound funny but
> > it is not a soft language. It is very loud and is choppy. Fast and
> > sometimes could sound unclassy.
>
> No, Cantonese is not a soft language, esp. rural Cantonese. Urban
> Cantonese (HK dialect) is slightly more pleasing, but tend to mumble
> and slur a lot. There's the annoying 'ng' sound in every 4-5
> syllables, adding to the mumble of low pitch resonant nasal noise. A
> few tonal pitches and sounds are actually difficult for most
> non-Cantonese Chinese to even think of pronouncing (starting with the
> word I/me, ngo).
True
> > Korean: It sound like Japanese to be honest. But when you look at
> > their spellings and pronounciations, it is quite different and has
> > more concenants than the Japanese. It is not a tonal language but is
> > a little more harsh.
>
> No it doesn't sound like Japanese. It only does so when you listen to
> Korean teenage pop songs (SES, etc). Korean has a far more complicated
> vowel system as well as a much larger set of initial and final
> consonants than Japanese. To a non-Asian language speaker, Korean
> sometimes sound very much like Mandarin (due to its similar vowels,
> ai, ang, ong/ung, eng and similar initial consonants like j/ch/zh and
> Mandarin being also a northern language). However if you listen
> carefully, you notice the final consonants m, b, p, k, g, l
> (especially the l, as in il or al) that is present in Korean but
> Mandarin lacks. Additionally, Korean words are sometimes accented
> with exaggeration and sentences end with an intonation that makes it
> seem tonal to an outsider (even though they have no idea what they are
> talking about since that is usu not even present in REAL tonal
> languages like Mandarin). Mandarin is tonal in a linguistic sense,
> not because it may sound 'tonal' (extreme varying exaggerated
> accents/pitches). Hence to those that think Korean is 'tonal'
> sounding, Mandarin would probably not sound 'tonal' to them even
> though it is actually a tonal language. Again, the Mandarin tones
> (flat, up, twist, and down pitches) are also found in English; you
> just don't think of the different pitches used for the same vowel when
> speaking English (hence English is not tonal but Mandarin is, although
> Mandarin's tones do not go beyond the limits of English's pitches
> either).
>
> ex: the 'e' /ei/ in English desk (up pitch) and test (down pitch).
Hmmm, can't say much about this. But just remember, Korean does not
have any tonal rules. Mandarin has. I have to disagree on you with
this only.
> > Filipino (Tagalog): This is a language which is not tonal and flows.
> > However, it is a very stiff language. Actually, amoung the Filipino
> > languages, it is the most soft language (compared to Visayan languages
> > etc.). Some Filipinos claim that it sounds like Spanish but I find it
> > hard to believe. It sounds more like Malay and does have many stiff
> > tones.
> >
> > Malay: This language is like Filipino without any Spanish loanwords
> > and English
> >
> > Vietnamese: This language is another tonal language but is very
> > different from Chinese. It tends to mumble and speak slower than its
> > neighboring Cantonese.
>
> hehe. I often have trouble telling apart Cantonese from Vietnamese.
> But that was because I never heard Vietnamese then and just assumed
> crass sounding rural Cantonese was Vietnamese. In reality now that
> I've heard Vietnamese on a daily basis for a while, Vietnamese sounds
> ***A LOT WORSE***. How dare me to even say rural Cantonese is similar
> to Vietnamese. Some pitches seem impossible for my vocal cords to
> even mimic. But it's seeing the Vietnamese guys pronounce some of
> those words that make me cringe. Please correct me if you can find
> some good pleasant clips of Vietnamese in action (I want to be
> corrected!!).
Ummm, no comment on this.
But thanks for your opinion.
Gloria
Gloria Mah
> do you consider yourself a typical HK japanophile?
>
> > Gloria
No, just a fair person who hates Chinese who are anti-Japanese.
I hate Chinese who makes bad things about Japan just because of war.
Right? War is over. We should be friends again. Japanese are Chinese bros.
Gloria
Bass Chorng
>
> Mr. Lee Teng-hui was a Japanese citizen when Taiwan was under
> IJE's administration from 1895 to 1945. And then from 1945 to 1951
> under the UN charter of self-determination, the people of Taiwan
> could have exercised their fundamental human rights if Chiang thugs
> and their troop had not arrived in Taiwan and raped the Taiwanese from 1945
> to 1947. Thousands and thousands of Taiwanese were systematically
> round-up and killed without court hearings. Bloody Chinese butchers are all
> alike, from Mao, Chiang, Deng to Jiang.
>
How about Taiwanese killed by the Japanese before 1945 ? You don't seem
to have a problem with that.
The most brutal massacre in human history was performed by Japs in
Nanking - in case you need to be reminded.
Stik
news:3d777f80....@shawnews.ed.shawcable.net...
> On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 13:26:40 GMT, "Hoklo Taiwanese"
> <jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >jesus. how about this? let's pick the top news anchor woman from each
of
> >these countries and let them speak a paragraph of words in their own
> >language. and you decide which language pleases you and which annoys
> >you...on a scale from 1 to 10.
>
>
> You have identified an excellent test.
An excellent test to compare which Asian language is
most beautiful? You're joking, right?
> Not only is her enunciation informative but the official image of how
> their news anchor should present herself is a very good indication of
> how their ideal woman should appear and sound in public.
> Do her tonal inflections sound musical or are they flat.
Ok.
> Does she smile a lot?
Of course. How can we truly compare beauty in a language
without seeing those perfect smiles?
> What's her makeup like?
I suggest we also check to make sure they
are using the same brand (this is getting ridiculous).
> Is she animated?
What if she isn't? (I am beginning to think that you didn't
read my post about people with thick skulls)
> Are he clothes tastefully fashionable or are they proletariat grey?
You must be Hoklo's friend.
> In other words the lady TV news anchor is usually the epitome of a
> country's ideal intelligent and beautiful woman. Thus when she speaks
> her native language does she come across as your idea of a beautiful
> woman or a mother in law from hell?
Go back and read the OP. You missed it by at least a mile.
Stik
klmok
wrote:
>One thing I'll say, you have narrow understanding of Japanese.
>Japanese is not only "Shogun" and "Samurai" talking. Think, in
>military, do you think the generals will say "come on everybody, let's
>go and run." in a soft tone? Not likely.
>
>Gloria
>
Guilty there. But also do look at those TV reports on Japan Corp.
See how the supervisors brow beat their subordinates, and this
includes the cream of their university graduates who presumably will
spend the rest of their lives at that Corporation rise be their
futrure leaders. First they humilaite their juniors. Then they remold
thgem into automatons... that's why Japan is experiencing ther decade
long economic malaise because her best people have never beeen able to
think outsize the box.
Love stories? Rare in movies and the ideal woman is always
subservient. Okay. We are discussing the impressions the spoken
language conveys. But it is hard to divorce the spoken language from
body language.
You said you are Cantonese. Great. I wonder if you have ever come
across the Cantonese slur for Japanese as the "Ka Ka Loh?" Ka Ka
alluding to what they sound like when they speak and Loh the Cantonese
colloquial for man.
Chris
> Question time.
>
> Which language do you think is the most beautiful language in Asia?
>
> Cantonese Chinese?
> Korean?
> Japanese?
> Filipino?
There are many beautiful languages in the Philippines. Our country is
home to over 160 languages.
I like Ibanag (northeastern Luzon).. it's one of few Filipino
languages where the /f/, /z/, and /v/ sounds exist.
I also like Ilocano (Northern Luzon) too..... But my favorite is
Hiligaynon (Panay Island and Negros Occidental)...
Outside of the Philippines, I like Cantonese... I really want to hear
Hokkien, though.
Hindi is also beautiful.
--Chris
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
I am not really against Japan-philia as exhibited among teenagers in
Taiwan. These days, Korea-philia is also common, I heard, at least
for TV shows. I have some concerns with Japan-philia, but it has less
to do with WWII history, but more because I think Japanese society is
kind of sick. I do not like Japanese WWII apologists, but I am not
sure if that's relevant here.
Eric
Kaminarikun
> > Korean: It sound like Japanese to be honest.
>
And Chinese, And Mongols, And Americans.
ugly duckling
> > Why did you leave out Hebrew? Israel is in Asia.
> When we say Asia, it usually is focused on the far east. Israel is
> the Middle Eastern country. I should have used Oriental to be exact
> perhaps.
When people say Asia, they used to mean "Asia Minor" which is the vast land
north-east of Sinai desertm where Jesus Christ our Lord spoke about hi seven
churches in the Book of Revelation.
It is only in the 20th century that people started to call the Asian
continent to
be "Asia."
ugly duckling
K. Chang
Why don't you go to your Christ and shut up. I don't even see where
you came up with the sino-centric comment. I think most of the
'sino-centric' posts that come up on the soc.culture threads are usu.
as counter-attacks or awakening posts for those who wish to BLATANTLY
DENY the existance of such influence. At least we McDonald eating
Chinese aren't zealous enough to say McDonald was invented by the
Chinese (as you Koreans would like to claim Chinese characters).
Hoklo Taiwanese
"Stik" <stikky...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:al8nf8$1nqqj4$1...@ID-87802.news.dfncis.de...
> "klmok" <kl...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:3d777f80....@shawnews.ed.shawcable.net...
> > On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 13:26:40 GMT, "Hoklo Taiwanese"
> > <jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >jesus. how about this? let's pick the top news anchor woman from each
> of
> > >these countries and let them speak a paragraph of words in their own
> > >language. and you decide which language pleases you and which annoys
> > >you...on a scale from 1 to 10.
> >
> >
> > You have identified an excellent test.
>
> An excellent test to compare which Asian language is
> most beautiful? You're joking, right?
so? this whole topic is a joke anyway. for fun.
Hoklo Taiwanese
do a poll and certainly one language will come up on top and one on the
bottom. and i would say the difference between these 2 languages cannot be
described as subjective anymore.
but keep in mind that the point is not finding the ultimate truth. hardly.
but even for fun or entertainment reasons, it's not a bad idea to
'standarize' (ie. educated, polite speakers, etc.) the speakers of these
languages.
Charleyz Brown Da SnOOpy!
waiting to wear for that special occasion. Finding boots for my feet are
impossible though. I might have to go for repo's.
I'll post my picture for you all to give me the Asian-seal-of-approval
when I'm done with it. Then it is on to my VC uniform.
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
Charleyz Brown Da SnOOpy!
times.
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
Eric
Charleyz Brown Da SnOOpy!
IJA gear anything... I guess I'm hooked too.
I want one of those machine guns that use the 7.7 stripper clips and the
feed box. Too bad the ATF says no :(
I do notice that the quality of the gear became worse further into the war.
The rifles are a good indication, even the hand grenades were ceramic
instead of metal.
I love collecting cool stuff like this from Japan, I have a few Banzai flags
with bullet holes and burn marks on them.
I need only a set of size 11 boots and a nice JP girl and I'll have the
setup completed.
"Jun Miyamoto" <miya...@physics.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:al83ik$gt2$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
Charleyz Brown Da SnOOpy!
in establishing a DMZ USENET zone.
"K. Chang" <zen...@c4.com> wrote in message
news:1ffee964.02090...@posting.google.com...
Hoklo Taiwanese
must have voluntarily wanted to become a comfort woman and actually enjoyed
it.
in what manner or motive did LTH claim he was japanese??? hell, everyone in
taiwan during that time was a japanese citizen.
> to 1947. Thousands and thousands of Taiwanese were systematically
> round-up and killed without court hearings.
what kind of taiwanese were rounded up and killed, may i ask?
coincidentally a lot of these taiwanese were wearing japan's imperial army
uniform and holding japan's imperial flag. KILL these
bastids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Brigitte Yves" <brig...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote in message
news:al82ra$pdd$1...@flood.xnet.com...
> If you don't know about Japan & Taiwan's history, please step aside.
> Otherwise, you are only barking up the wrong tree. Maybe it is the food
> you ate making you barking like crazy. How can a group of people eat that?
>
> Mr. Lee Teng-hui was a Japanese citizen when Taiwan was under
> IJE's administration from 1895 to 1945. And then from 1945 to 1951
> under the UN charter of self-determination, the people of Taiwan
> could have exercised their fundamental human rights if Chiang thugs
> and their troop had not arrived in Taiwan and raped the Taiwanese from
1945
> to 1947. Thousands and thousands of Taiwanese were systematically
> round-up and killed without court hearings. Bloody Chinese butchers are
all
> alike, from Mao, Chiang, Deng to Jiang.
>
> Need I say more? Pity as usual for a little red commie barking!
> BEY
Michael Khan
Gloria Mah wrote:
> When we say Asia, it usually is focused on the far east.
Who is "we"?
Hoklo Taiwanese
>
> Something-phila has become a buzzword since the scandals in the
> Catholic church came into light lately but I think media and
> we individuals started overusing and misusing the term.
>
> I am aware some Japanese pop culture deeply penetrated into
> other Asian countries(especially youth culture) and some governments
> have shown great concern over the Japanese influence. But calling
> them Japanphilia may not be an accurate observation.
>
> When it comes to Taiwan, some people don't want to have anything to do
> with the Red China. Being in tune with the Japanese pop culture
> helps them keep their mind off the influence from the Red China.
definitely not. the japanophile youth in taiwan nowadays don't give a damn
about red china. they're japanophiles only because they're, nothing more.
only people like Li Teng-Hui are japanophiles for the reason of being
anti-chinese, anti-commie.
> If you are overly nationalistic, this may annoy you. In fact
> you can find similar examples in other cultures. For example,
> if you are a Mexican American and date a white American, your
> family and siblings may accuse you for selling off. Some radical
> mexican and black americans(not so much Asian americans though)
> believe they are being oppressed by the White America even today,
> many years after civil rights were attained by the minorities.
no no no. it's annoying when they reject their own culture at the same time
without giving good reasons. it's annoying when they try to become who they
really are not. it's all about THEM, not about ME.
however, if you're japanese or a japanese desendent, this (picking out
japanophiles) may annoy you.
> Also I have met some Taiwanese intellectuals who are deeply into
> Japanese culture and philosophy and literature. It seems they
> are fascinated by something their mother culture didn't offer.
> Are they selling off or is it just their hobby?
depends what they say about both cultures. can't really tell. and if they
say nanking massacre was committed by the KMT, then they're definitely
sell-outs.
> In an open society(internet, TV and shortwave radios etc), even
> sensorship cannot do much to control
> the mass. Those young people who are into Japanese animes and
> goods(pen cases, notebooks with cartoon characters etc) are not
necessarily less Chinese
> or Korean than their parents. They are just tasting new things that other
> cultures offer just like eating McDonalds and pizzas. The painful history
doesn't stop them from
> exploring.
depends to what extent. some really stopped eating chinese and say "chinese
sucks." these are japanophiles.
it's not that painful history can't stop them. it's that they don't even
know and understand the history.
> Many Americans wear what they call kimonos(simple oriental looking
> bathrobes), put tatami matresses in their home and gourmet sushi
> making has become the norm for parties these days. Does that make
> them Japanese or sell off their mother culture?
what kind of american? japanese americans? americans whose profession
involves japanese culture or japan?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In article <265898cc.02090...@posting.google.com>,
> leon yin <masa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >"Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}" <ecc...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
> >>
> >> Is Japanophilia common in HK. That would be counter to my experience.
> >> Taiwan, perhaps.
> >>
> >
> >It is in Korea. But more so in Taiwan. Hell the former Taiwanese
Hoklo Taiwanese
"ugly duckling" <daveiny...@hotmail.comnospam> wrote in message
news:OtMd9.39158$15.1...@www.newsranger.com...
> > sensorship cannot do much to control
> > the mass. Those young people who are into Japanese animes and
> > goods(pen cases, notebooks with cartoon characters etc) are not
> necessarily less Chinese
> > or Korean than their parents. They are just tasting new things that
other
> > cultures offer just like eating McDonalds and pizzas. The painful
history
> doesn't stop them from
> > exploring.
>
but this isn't cultural exchange. this is about japanophiles, fuckhead.
> What really bothers these sino-centric sons of bitches is that
> the are no longer the center of that influence. That's why these
> morons waste their time arguing which came from where...
>
> What does it matter? As long as you use it for goodness sake...
>
> In fact this sino-centric mentality has been the main factor that kept
> Asians from advancing into bright future... and from coming
> to Christ.
funny. if one is not a japanophile, then he is definitely sino-centric.
people, let's all be japanophiles for the sake of asians!
Hoklo Taiwanese
generally speaking. my dialect, taiwanese, is annoying too, but not as bad
as cantonese. mandarin is more pleasing to my ears (i wouldn't say
beautiful). japanese is more pleasing than cantonese and taiwanese, but
still fall short of mandarin.
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
Hoklo Taiwanese
Japanese are not Chinese bros. Japanese and Koreans are Chinese neighbors
or friends. HK, Mainland, Taiwan are Chinese bros. Agree?
"Gloria Mah" <Gloria...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc54b7c.02090...@posting.google.com...
Goldfinger
> cantonese is not my dialect. and i must admit it's somewhat annoying
> generally speaking. my dialect, taiwanese, is annoying too, but not as
bad
> as cantonese. mandarin is more pleasing to my ears (i wouldn't say
> beautiful). japanese is more pleasing than cantonese and taiwanese, but
> still fall short of mandarin.
This is a fair assessment. The manner Cantonese is spoken by most people
certainly sounds annoying, too many, La, Na, Wow, Wa, Ma at the end of a
sentence. Taiwanese is not much better too, unless you're a die hard TIer
which you'll deny vehemently. Mandarin is the most pleasing and cultural
dialact/language in China.
Jun Miyamoto
Speaking of eating McDonalds, very few of my Chinese colleagues
eat there even in the USA. They usually bring their own
Chinese cooked dishes and microwave them. In China, how are they
received? Is
McDonald growing popular? Since Chinese cuisine is one of the
oldest, is it difficult to change your taste if you grow up with
it? If that is the case, they may consider themselves lucky
because they can stick to healthy food rather than eating junk food.
Daniel Paik
Jun Miyamoto <miya...@physics.purdue.edu> wrote:
>Speaking of eating McDonalds, very few of my Chinese colleagues
>eat there even in the USA. They usually bring their own
>Chinese cooked dishes and microwave them. In China, how are they
at the risk of stereotyping...most of the chinese people i knew in college were
very cheap so they never ate out at mcdonalds even. with that said...the
cheapest guys i've ever known in my life have all been korean. but on average,
the chinese guys i know are cheaper than the korean guys.
>it? If that is the case, they may consider themselves lucky
>because they can stick to healthy food rather than eating junk food.
chinese food is not healthy. go to your local sun hong kong and get the beef
chow fun and see how much fat and calories a dish has. a few years ago when i
took nutritional science at berkeley (you know...to get an easy A), the
professor said that it was equivalent to like 2 whoppers or 3 big macs.
Dan.
--
RVD...The Whole Dam Show
i was bored one day and ended up making http://www.hanguk.com/~danpaik
Velella...27 ft Catalina. home port: Redondo Beach, CA.
Jun Miyamoto
In article <CfYd9.182175$_91.2...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,
Hoklo Taiwanese <jh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>"Jun Miyamoto" <miya...@physics.purdue.edu> wrote in message
>news:al83ik$gt2$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>>
>> Something-phila has become a buzzword since the scandals in the
>> Catholic church came into light lately but I think media and
>> we individuals started overusing and misusing the term.
>>
>> I am aware some Japanese pop culture deeply penetrated into
>> other Asian countries(especially youth culture) and some governments
>> have shown great concern over the Japanese influence. But calling
>> them Japanphilia may not be an accurate observation.
>>
>> When it comes to Taiwan, some people don't want to have anything to do
>> with the Red China. Being in tune with the Japanese pop culture
>> helps them keep their mind off the influence from the Red China.
>
>definitely not. the japanophile youth in taiwan nowadays don't give a damn
>about red china. they're japanophiles only because they're, nothing more.
>
>only people like Li Teng-Hui are japanophiles for the reason of being
>anti-chinese, anti-commie.
It is natural for a small country like Taiwan to seek support
from Japan or the USA if its statehood is threatened by its
powerful neighbor. No one wants to be like an orphan. That does
not make one Japanphile.
>> If you are overly nationalistic, this may annoy you. In fact
>> you can find similar examples in other cultures. For example,
>> if you are a Mexican American and date a white American, your
>> family and siblings may accuse you for selling off. Some radical
>> mexican and black americans(not so much Asian americans though)
>> believe they are being oppressed by the White America even today,
>> many years after civil rights were attained by the minorities.
>
>no no no. it's annoying when they reject their own culture at the same time
>without giving good reasons. it's annoying when they try to become who they
>really are not. it's all about THEM, not about ME.
How do you know they reject their own culture? Did you ask them?
Any person who is raised in a certain culture and tradition
becomes part of it. Even if the person says, "I hate my tradition
and background so I will abandon it and take something else", he
or she still cannot erase the influence. Can they forget their
language or the taste of the food their parents cooked for them?
Those you accuse of being Japanphile(they are not) don't have to
give you any reasons because they did not reject their own culture.
>however, if you're japanese or a japanese desendent, this (picking out
>japanophiles) may annoy you.
It annoys me whenever a person picks on innocent people for
crimes they never commit.
>> Also I have met some Taiwanese intellectuals who are deeply into
>> Japanese culture and philosophy and literature. It seems they
>> are fascinated by something their mother culture didn't offer.
>> Are they selling off or is it just their hobby?
>
>depends what they say about both cultures. can't really tell. and if they
>say nanking massacre was committed by the KMT, then they're definitely
>sell-outs.
I don't know what they say about politics but if they are enjoying
their intellectual pursuits with open mindness, I admire them.
>> In an open society(internet, TV and shortwave radios etc), even
>> sensorship cannot do much to control
>> the mass. Those young people who are into Japanese animes and
>> goods(pen cases, notebooks with cartoon characters etc) are not
>necessarily less Chinese
>> or Korean than their parents. They are just tasting new things that other
>> cultures offer just like eating McDonalds and pizzas. The painful history
>doesn't stop them from
>> exploring.
>
>depends to what extent. some really stopped eating chinese and say "chinese
>sucks." these are japanophiles.
No, this is a kind of rebellion. These people(often yougsters) in their
later lives start appreciating their own tradition and end up becoming
more traditonal than you are. Still it doesn't make them japanphile.
If you remember your teenage years or if you are a parent of teenagers,
you should be able to understand youth mentality.
>it's not that painful history can't stop them. it's that they don't even
>know and understand the history.
Then you teach them the history without being so harsh on innocent
young people.
>> Many Americans wear what they call kimonos(simple oriental looking
>> bathrobes), put tatami matresses in their home and gourmet sushi
>> making has become the norm for parties these days. Does that make
>> them Japanese or sell off their mother culture?
>
>what kind of american? japanese americans? americans whose profession
>involves japanese culture or japan?
These are Americans who have nothing to do with Japan, no Japanese
ancestries, no Japanese
close friends, never been to Japan. They just like the taste of
the exotic culture(of course it is not exotic to people from Japan)
Jun Miyamoto
Cheap and frugal are two different things. Calling some ethnic group
cheap could be considered ethnic slur. I hate to tell someone
this who went to the same school as I did. At least when I was
at Berkeley 10 years ago, ethnic study was a big thing and everyone
had to take it(politically correctness).
My Chinese colleagues don't even go to Chinese restaurants
here because they are not authentic enough. The chefs may
have adusted their menues to please American customers.
This is a culture of excessiveness, lots of salt, pepper, spice,
fat, sugar you name it.
The use of lard may cause some problems but in SF, there
are some completely vegetarian Chinese restaurants(no animal
products are used). There are some kosher Chinese restaurants
supervised by rabbis to meet the jewish standards as well.
Isn article <alalh3$ff0$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
Goldfinger
"Daniel Paik" <uc...@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:alalh3$ff0$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
> at the risk of stereotyping...most of the chinese people i knew in college
were
> very cheap so they never ate out at mcdonalds even. with that said...the
> cheapest guys i've ever known in my life have all been korean. but on
average,
> the chinese guys i know are cheaper than the korean guys.
There are a lot of different Chinese people from different regions of China.
Usually, Chinese people from the more affluent regions like Taiwan, Hong
Kong and Singapore are OK. The ones that you said didn't eat out at Macs or
Chinese restaurants were mostly from Mainland China. Taiwanese, Hong Kong
people and Singaporean eat out all the time.
Goldfinger
>
> My Chinese colleagues don't even go to Chinese restaurants
> here because they are not authentic enough. The chefs may
> have adusted their menues to please American customers.
> This is a culture of excessiveness, lots of salt, pepper, spice,
> fat, sugar you name it.
Your Chinese colleagues are from Mainland China, right? Other than than,
Chinese will usually go to Chinese restaurants regularly, they will just
avoid those chop suey places.
Brigitte Yves
>
>There are a lot of different Chinese people from different regions of China.
I guess the term Chinese people here meant Chinese citizens, right?
>Usually, Chinese people from the more affluent regions like Taiwan, Hong
>Kong and Singapore are OK. The ones that you said didn't eat out at Macs or
Are people from Taiwan and Singapore citizens of the PRC?
>Chinese restaurants were mostly from Mainland China. Taiwanese, Hong Kong
>people and Singaporean eat out all the time.
Another strange statement:
French and Americans also eat out all the time.
What is your point?
BEY
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
In fact they eat out too much. Endless lunch/dinner engagements.
Eric
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> In article <alaksn$o4t$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
> Jun Miyamoto <miya...@physics.purdue.edu> wrote:
>>Speaking of eating McDonalds, very few of my Chinese colleagues
>>eat there even in the USA. They usually bring their own
>>Chinese cooked dishes and microwave them. In China, how are they
> at the risk of stereotyping...most of the chinese people i knew in college were
> very cheap so they never ate out at mcdonalds even. with that said...the
> cheapest guys i've ever known in my life have all been korean. but on average,
> the chinese guys i know are cheaper than the korean guys.
>>it? If that is the case, they may consider themselves lucky
>>because they can stick to healthy food rather than eating junk food.
> chinese food is not healthy. go to your local sun hong kong and get the beef
> chow fun and see how much fat and calories a dish has. a few years ago when i
> took nutritional science at berkeley (you know...to get an easy A), the
> professor said that it was equivalent to like 2 whoppers or 3 big macs.
Unfortunately, Sun Hong Kong is often the only place still open
after spending the whole day and the whole evening in the lab.
Chinese restaurant food is generally unhealthy. Sure doens't
beat a big bowl of Bibimbap.
Eric
Eric Chang ~{VY;T~}
> Cheap and frugal are two different things. Calling some ethnic group
> cheap could be considered ethnic slur. I hate to tell someone
> this who went to the same school as I did. At least when I was
> at Berkeley 10 years ago, ethnic study was a big thing and everyone
> had to take it(politically correctness).
> My Chinese colleagues don't even go to Chinese restaurants
> here because they are not authentic enough. The chefs may
> have adusted their menues to please American customers.
> This is a culture of excessiveness, lots of salt, pepper, spice,
> fat, sugar you name it.
Purdue only has one acceptable Chinese restaurant.
> The use of lard may cause some problems but in SF, there
> are some completely vegetarian Chinese restaurants(no animal
> products are used). There are some kosher Chinese restaurants
> supervised by rabbis to meet the jewish standards as well.
Or the Muslim Chinese restaurants. Those are good! Sour
Vegetable Mutton Soup. Yummy!
Eric
Jun Miyamoto
>
>>>it? If that is the case, they may consider themselves lucky
>>>because they can stick to healthy food rather than eating junk food.
>
>> chinese food is not healthy. go to your local sun hong kong and get the beef
>> chow fun and see how much fat and calories a dish has. a few years ago when i
>> took nutritional science at berkeley (you know...to get an easy A), the
>> professor said that it was equivalent to like 2 whoppers or 3 big macs.
>
>Unfortunately, Sun Hong Kong is often the only place still open
>after spending the whole day and the whole evening in the lab.
It is probably the one on Shattuck? I do remember it was filled with
customers even at 1 or 2AM.
I am not sure eating ANY food so late is a healthy thing(before you
go to bed).
I don't eat meat and some friendly Korean chefs are willing to
make vegetarian bibimbap but some of my Korean colleagues
may say,"What is the point eating bibimpab without meat?"