So, how DO Koreans treat foreigners?

[Alan Walker]

I may have to go to Korea for a short business trip soon. I have been
there once before, for only a few days. I am thinking about taking a
short holiday this time when business is finished to have a look
around.

I am genuinely interested in Korean culture and history, and I would
like to visit some museums, galleries, temples etc.

I am trying to learn a little Korean, but so far I have mastered only a
few basic greetings and "Where is the ....?" type questions.

What sort of reception am I likely to get? What are the chances of
finding helpful people if, for example, I need help working out which
train to catch? The few Koreans I have met have mostly been cheerful
and friendly. Some have been astonishingly generous and warm-hearted.

However, when I dip into soc.culture.korean, I find a discouraging
quagmire of abuse, petty point-scoring, horror stories of venial
Koreans and simple-minded racism. What gives? I assume that Korea,
like all countries, is a mixture of good and bad. But in what
proportions?

[CHUCKY]

Alan Walker wrote:

If you're going for a short visit, you won't have too much problems
other than people in the subway train stations staring at your
caucasion features. And you will time to time receive
kindness and generosity from Koreans.

The problem will reveal itself when you are there
long term or try to interact with Koreans with a deep
meaningful relationship whether that'll be in trying
to get a job, date, marry, or whatever.
You'll find that Koreans will treat you with
politeness and respect from the outside, but
the looks can be deceiving. They divide all people
into categories, and you happen to be belong in the
"non-Korean" section. There is a term in Korean;
"uri-nara saram", it means "our countrymen" and
it refers to pure Koreans of pure Korean blood.
For example, Trevor Gulliver might have lived in
Korea for years, and speak Korean(hypothetical),
has a Korean name, and has Korean citizenship,
and so on, but he would never ever be considered
"uri-nara saram". He would still be considered
"wae-gook-in" or "gaijin" (in Japanese), or
"foreigner". The mentality is "it's us against them".
Unfortunately, race is not the only category of people
in Korea, there are so many others that westerners
cannot even imagine.

[Jenney Choi]

CHUCKY <dry...@istar.ca> wrote:
: If you're going for a short visit, you won't have too much problems

: other than people in the subway train stations staring at your
: caucasion features. And you will time to time receive
: kindness and generosity from Koreans.

Actually in Seoul, they are pretty used to Caucasians on the subways.
Unless you go to a smaller city, you won't be singled out or stared at any
more than anyone else.

My 6'2 blond blue eyed Canadian friend lived in Korea for a year and he
told me he never got stared at, but he noticed that I got a lot of looks
when I accompanied him on the subway. Of course they were staring at me
because I was with him. But I always got stared at pretty much every time
I was on the subway and no, it wasn't my imagination because everyone I
was with, Koreans and non Koreans aways commented. I think probably
Gyopos are more fascinating to Koreans than other foreigners.

--
Ey
Galactic dust girl surfs her wave of mirth [Bleach]

[Trevor Gulliver]

Jenney Choi wrote:

> CHUCKY <dry...@istar.ca> wrote:
> : If you're going for a short visit, you won't have too much problems
> : other than people in the subway train stations staring at your
> : caucasion features. And you will time to time receive
> : kindness and generosity from Koreans.
>
> Actually in Seoul, they are pretty used to Caucasians on the subways.
> Unless you go to a smaller city, you won't be singled out or stared at any
> more than anyone else.
>

Tell me about it. I left my little town and went to Seoul for a couple days.
You'd think I'd be glad not to be stared at and called Mi-guk sa-ram by every
kid around but after a day and a half there I began to miss the attention! :P

[CHUCKY]

Jenney Choi wrote:

> because I was with him. But I always got stared at pretty much every time
> I was on the subway and no, it wasn't my imagination because everyone I
> was with, Koreans and non Koreans aways commented. I think probably
> Gyopos are more fascinating to Koreans than other foreigners.
>

No, they're probably staring at your blouse withfood stains.

> --

[CHUCKY]

Trevor Gulliver wrote:

>
>
> Tell me about it. I left my little town and went to Seoul for a couple days.
> You'd think I'd be glad not to be stared at and called Mi-guk sa-ram by every
> kid around but after a day and a half there I began to miss the attention! :P
>

I know Canadians get offended when they are called Americans,as any Caucasions
are called Americans, by the Koreans.
It's simply because Americans are the most prominent Caucasions
in Korea. Especially if you know that both Americans and Canadians
speak the same language, same culture, and same race, and all it has
different is the different borders.

It's same as Koreans getting mistaken for being Chinese or Japanese,
in North America. Simply, especially the Chinese, they are the most
prominent group in the Americas, and people identify with them more.

[Hati Choi]

On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:17:57 +0900, Trevor Gulliver
<cana...@mail.hitel.net> wrote:

>Tell me about it. I left my little town and went to Seoul for a couple days.
>You'd think I'd be glad not to be stared at and called Mi-guk sa-ram by every
>kid around but after a day and a half there I began to miss the attention! :P

I know the feeling. When I was travelling India, I was called
'Japanese Madame' more than hundred times a day and there were always
dozens of Indians who wanted to talk with me. No exageration here.

I even ordered a T-shirt and wore it, in front of it I made to
embroider like this;

NO JAPANESE
NO GONIZIWA
NO SAYONARA
NO MIRUDAKE

Now I miss that kinda attention very much, though they made me feel
terrible when I was there.
Those people are cute regardless of their purposes when I look back
here and now. Some of them wanted to be friends, some of them just
wanted to talk with an '(White) East Asian girl', and many of them
wanted to 'cheat' me. Lots of them could just say 'Hallo', or 'What's
your name?' or 'Where are you from?'

The memories make me feel warm.

[Pat]

On 5 Mar 98 11:26:56 GMT, wal...@mail.bendigo.net.au (Alan Walker)
wrote:

>I may have to go to Korea for a short business trip soon. I have been
>there once before, for only a few days. I am thinking about taking a
>short holiday this time when business is finished to have a look
>around.
>
>I am genuinely interested in Korean culture and history, and I would
>like to visit some museums, galleries, temples etc.
>
>I am trying to learn a little Korean, but so far I have mastered only a
>few basic greetings and "Where is the ....?" type questions.
>
>What sort of reception am I likely to get? What are the chances of
>finding helpful people if, for example, I need help working out which
>train to catch? The few Koreans I have met have mostly been cheerful
>and friendly. Some have been astonishingly generous and warm-hearted.
>
>However, when I dip into soc.culture.korean, I find a discouraging
>quagmire of abuse, petty point-scoring, horror stories of venial
>Koreans and simple-minded racism. What gives? I assume that Korea,
>like all countries, is a mixture of good and bad. But in what
>proportions?
>

Come on over, Alan. I think you;ll be pleasantly surprised. It's not
a bad place at all. Hell, ther're even a goodly number of places
about that have Foster's here in Seoul. Maybe not your favorite, but
it shows that there is an international flavor.

People are generally pretty good everywhere (with the possible
exception on New Jersey).

Enjoy!

Pat

[Jaghia]

Why the hell would you erroneously believe that people who post in SCK are
representative of Koreans in general???

Most of the posters in SCK are Korean-americans or Korean-canadians. As such,
and having spent most of our time here in the States, we have learned how to be
obnoxious and ignorant as only a true-blooded American would.

If you must decide what the Koreans are like, look to the people with email
address that end with ".kr" and you will notice that they are more courteous
and less abraisive than people like me.

In article <34fe8...@203.14.212.6>, wal...@mail.bendigo.net.au (Alan Walker)
writes:

>
>I may have to go to Korea for a short business trip soon. I have been
>there once before, for only a few days. I am thinking about taking a
>short holiday this time when business is finished to have a look
>around.
>
>I am genuinely interested in Korean culture and history, and I would
>like to visit some museums, galleries, temples etc.
>
>I am trying to learn a little Korean, but so far I have mastered only a
>few basic greetings and "Where is the ....?" type questions.
>
>What sort of reception am I likely to get? What are the chances of
>finding helpful people if, for example, I need help working out which
>train to catch? The few Koreans I have met have mostly been cheerful
>and friendly. Some have been astonishingly generous and warm-hearted.
>
>However, when I dip into soc.culture.korean, I find a discouraging
>quagmire of abuse, petty point-scoring, horror stories of venial
>Koreans and simple-minded racism. What gives? I assume that Korea,
>like all countries, is a mixture of good and bad. But in what
>proportions?
>
>

_
P.S. This lame AOL newsreader doesn't allow cross-posting. If you wish to
follow my thread, do it in soc.culture.korean or crosspost mine.

P.P.S. To those lamers who send dumbass remarks, I reserve the right to publish
your emails on the newsgroup.

[Prozac]

I know what you mean.... I visited korea in 1988, and i had 3 ear rings,
and red hair... and i went to Lotte to shop. And i noticed people looking
at me... i guess guys with earing was not common at that time, not to
mention red hair
Jenney Choi wrote in message <6do6ap$pfa$1...@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>...

>CHUCKY <dry...@istar.ca> wrote:
>: If you're going for a short visit, you won't have too much problems
>: other than people in the subway train stations staring at your
>: caucasion features. And you will time to time receive
>: kindness and generosity from Koreans.
>
>Actually in Seoul, they are pretty used to Caucasians on the subways.
>Unless you go to a smaller city, you won't be singled out or stared at any
>more than anyone else.
>

>My 6'2 blond blue eyed Canadian friend lived in Korea for a year and he
>told me he never got stared at, but he noticed that I got a lot of looks
>when I accompanied him on the subway. Of course they were staring at me

>because I was with him. But I always got stared at pretty much every time
>I was on the subway and no, it wasn't my imagination because everyone I
>was with, Koreans and non Koreans aways commented. I think probably
>Gyopos are more fascinating to Koreans than other foreigners.
>

> --

[chuck]

On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 13:31:16 GMT, CHUCKY <dry...@istar.ca> wrote:

>It's same as Koreans getting mistaken for being Chinese or Japanese,
>in North America. Simply, especially the Chinese, they are the most
>prominent group in the Americas, and people identify with them more.

Filipinos are the most prominent group in the States.

chuck

[Hati Choi]

On 6 Mar 1998 19:20:17 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:

>If you must decide what the Koreans are like, look to the people with email
>address that end with ".kr" and you will notice that they are more courteous
>and less abraisive than people like me.

Many of the addresses don't end with '.kr' these days. The major
network service companies changed the addresses since last year to
just 'net'.

You may see
@chollian.net
@hitel.net
@unitel.net
@netsgo.net
@bora.net
etc. They are all Koreans.

And many of Korean net serfers began to have hotmail accounts.

Hati, information provider.

[SA]

On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 14:23:58 GMT, P...@dongbu.ichon.dong (Pat) wrote:

>On 5 Mar 98 11:26:56 GMT, wal...@mail.bendigo.net.au (Alan Walker)
>wrote:
>

>>I may have to go to Korea for a short business trip soon. I have been
>>there once before, for only a few days. I am thinking about taking a
>>short holiday this time when business is finished to have a look
>>around.

Do your business, then take your holidays in Thailand, Philippines,
Japan, Hong Kong, or elsewhere as long as its not Korea

>>
>>I am genuinely interested in Korean culture and history, and I would
>>like to visit some museums, galleries, temples etc.

Museums are hilarious. I've not been to the national museum for a
while, since its been moved and rebuilt, but it was basically three or
four floors of pottery with a few other artifacts. Pretty humdrum !
The War Memorial Museum is about how Korea has been fighting with
other nations for 6000 years. Makes you wonder whether this nation
will ever be at peace.

>>
>>I am trying to learn a little Korean, but so far I have mastered only a
>>few basic greetings and "Where is the ....?" type questions.

Forget it, unless your pronunciation is perfect.You will only get the
dumb Korean look !

>>
>>What sort of reception am I likely to get? What are the chances of
>>finding helpful people if, for example, I need help working out which
>>train to catch? The few Koreans I have met have mostly been cheerful
>>and friendly. Some have been astonishingly generous and warm-hearted.

Korea is like living in a fishbowl. Older Koreans will stop dead in
their tracks for a look at the foreigner. Every nut case on the subway
will make a b-line for you.

Koreans of all ages will continually ask you the same questions over
and over, e.g. What do you think of Korea ? Always answer that it's
the greatest country in the world, otherwise you risk the chance of
being punched.

In addition, be prepared for Koreans to approach you in restaurants,
bookstores, bars, etc.; and ask you to edit their homework, letters,
business documents,etc. Don't ever say "NO" or you risk dirty looks,
nasty comments, or even physical abuse. They may even expect (demand)
that you sit at their tables. Your time is not your time if they
require your services or want to practice their English.

Keep your eyes open on the subway and streets for lunatics who may
take a swing at you. They will think you are either from the IMF or
the Atomic Energy Commision.You the foreigner are totally responsible
for Korea's economic woes.

Wear rubber boots to avoid the pools of excrement you will
undoubtedly encounter in the subway. Koreans will tell you it's not
natural to hold your bowels when nature calls. So feel free to
urinate, defecate, vomit, or spit anywhere you please - it's okay !

Moreover, be prepared for Korean indoctrination. Every single day you
will hear how the west lacks any cultural attributes and how superior
Korea and Korean culture is comparatively. Korea is the only thing
Koreans will ever talk about with you !

>>
>>However, when I dip into soc.culture.korean, I find a discouraging
>>quagmire of abuse, petty point-scoring, horror stories of venial
>>Koreans and simple-minded racism. What gives? I assume that Korea,
>>like all countries, is a mixture of good and bad. But in what
>>proportions?

Overall I would say you will be treated far better than Koreans treat
themselves. But that's not saying much ! Yes you will meet good
Koreans; however, chances are you will only remember the bad Koreans
when you leave.

>>
>Come on over, Alan. I think you;ll be pleasantly surprised. It's not
>a bad place at all. Hell, ther're even a goodly number of places
>about that have Foster's here in Seoul. Maybe not your favorite, but
>it shows that there is an international flavor.

Foster's beer may be in supply for only a short time. Try and get a
pack of Marlboro cigarettes in Apkujong today. The convience stores
are not going to carry as many foreign products in a drive to " Buy
Korean."

>
>People are generally pretty good everywhere (with the possible
>exception on New Jersey).
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Pat

SA

[CHUCKY]

SA wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 14:23:58 GMT, P...@dongbu.ichon.dong (Pat) wrote:
>
> >On 5 Mar 98 11:26:56 GMT, wal...@mail.bendigo.net.au (Alan Walker)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>I may have to go to Korea for a short business trip soon. I have been
> >>there once before, for only a few days. I am thinking about taking a
> >>short holiday this time when business is finished to have a look
> >>around.
>
>
>
>

> Keep your eyes open on the subway and streets for lunatics who may
> take a swing at you. They will think you are either from the IMF or
> the Atomic Energy Commision.You the foreigner are totally responsible
> for Korea's economic woes.
>

hehe.. Koreans like to brawl, nah.. there's nothing wrong withthat. hehe..

> Wear rubber boots to avoid the pools of excrement you will
> undoubtedly encounter in the subway. Koreans will tell you it's not
> natural to hold your bowels when nature calls. So feel free to
> urinate, defecate, vomit, or spit anywhere you please - it's okay !
>

Actually, this is totally not true, in fact, it is a lie.I've ridden both
subways in Toronto and Seoul, and
I would say Seoul subway system is cleaner despite
having 10 times the ridership. I've seen drunken vomit,
and spilled drinks, and very very obnoxious
pan-handlers in Toronto subways, but Seoul is nothing
like that. And Toronto trains break down so often,
since the trains are so much older. And in the summer
times, I never ride the trains in Toronto, because with
the heat comes extremely bad body odours eminating
from unwashed bodies or sweaty glands. I much prefer
kimchi odours than to body odours. And another thing
huge differences between Seoul and Toronto are the
conditions of public restrooms. I never use Toronto's
public restrooms, since they are stinky beyond anything
Seoul can offer. Seoul has nice clean, no smell public
restrooms, while Toronto has sewers for restrooms,for
those who do not know how to use them properly.
I mean there are excrements, urine, throw ups, in
Toronto restrooms in restaurants, train stations, etc,
and they get cleaned up maybe twice every year.
Toronto public restrooms are totally disgusting,
compared to Seoul, with several times the population.
If you compare the cleanliness of subway stations of
the two cities, Seoul wins hands down. And shame
on Toronto for such terrible public washrooms, they
should learn from Seoul. And one more thing, Toronto
subway system is supposed to be one of the best in
North America, so I can safely assume American cities
have even worse cleanliness problems. For example,
New York City's graffitti and crime problems.

[Douglas M. Jole]

I'm using my husband's e-mail here

>
> >>>I am genuinely interested in Korean culture and history, and I would
> >>>like to visit some museums, galleries, temples etc.
> >
> >Museums are hilarious.

> >The War Memorial Museum is about how Korea has been fighting with
> >other nations for 6000 years.

I would have to agree that museums are hilarious. We got a big kick out of
them. We went to Independence Hall in Chonan and spent a long time in the
first building and just breezed through all the rest of it. The
360-degree movie was kind of cool.

The temples are wonderful. If you can at all, get out in the countryside
away from the city. One of our very best trips was when we went down to
Soonchon and Gwang Yang for Children's Day weekend. We took a bus out to
Bek Oon San in Gwang Yang and rode up as far as it went then got out and
walked farther. That is the most beautiful country down there! Gorgeous!
OF course you can't ever get really away from people--even up on this
mountain, at the top of the trail, there was a raw fish restaurant. We
still loved it, though. The next day we went to Song Gwang Sa (between
Soonchon and KwangJu) and hiked over the mountain to Son Am Sa on the
other side. We were really hot and tired but it was a great day. We took
some wonderful pictures.

>
>
> >>>I am trying to learn a little Korean, but so far I have mastered only a
> >>>few basic greetings and "Where is the ....?" type questions.
> >
> >Forget it, unless your pronunciation is perfect.You will only get the
> >dumb Korean look !
>

> From a few minority maybe.
>
It's hard but not impossible! If time allows, do try to learn the Korean
characters. It makes getting around and ordering food in restaurants a
lot easier.

> > >
> >
> >In addition, be prepared for Koreans to approach you in restaurants,
> >bookstores, bars, etc.; and ask you to edit their homework, letters,
> >business documents,etc. Don't ever say "NO" or you risk dirty looks,
> >nasty comments, or even physical abuse. They may even expect (demand)
> >that you sit at their tables. Your time is not your time if they
> >require your services or want to practice their English.
>

> Now this will *never* *ever* happen. To tell the truth, 99% of Koreans (if
> not all)
> are not bold enough to:

>
> approach you in restaurants,
> >bookstores, bars, etc.; and ask you to edit their homework, letters,
> >business documents,etc.
>

It does happen but rarely. I spent over two years in Korea--a year and
three months as a missionary (LDS), three months on an internship at a
publishing company, and nine months teaching English with my husband in
Chonan. I do remember being approached as a missionary a few times. In
KwangJu there was one fellow that we met on the street twice--once he
wanted to ask us the difference (in pronunciation) between "Zealous" and
"Jealous," and once he asked if we knew the history behind "Humpty Dumpty"
(fortunately I did). When my husband and I were over there we frequently
got approached by people asking us all sorts of things. I told Doug it
was the reference librarian in him showing.
I think it's true that most Koreans are not bold enough to approach you,
but I think many of them want to, and if you look unintimidating they're
more likely to talk to you. (Also if they're drunk, I've noticed, they
become rather bolder!)

>
> >
> >Wear rubber boots to avoid the pools of excrement you will
> >undoubtedly encounter in the subway. Koreans will tell you it's not
> >natural to hold your bowels when nature calls. So feel free to
> >urinate, defecate, vomit, or spit anywhere you please - it's okay !
>

> Use common sense. Besides, subway stations in Kangnam are not
> as bad.
>
Spitting, yes, it happens everywhere. I have seen vomit, especially in
the late hours. I have seen parents help their little ones urinate in
any public place at any hour of the day, but I can't recall running
across that particular item in the subway. Mostly the subway is very
clean (especially the newer lines). When we show our videos that we took
over there, people always say, "It's so clean!" (That was in the new
purple line, I think, near Kyobo bookstore, but others are nice, too.)>
Do carry your own tissue with you! You never know when you might need
it. You can get little travel packs at any store.>
> > > > >

________________________
Douglas Jole | What we don't need is a fountain of youth.
Memorial University | What we really need is a fountain of smart.
Of Newfoundland | Web Page under construction:
Folklore Dept | http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~g76dmj/
________________________|

[Trevor Gulliver]

Hati Choi wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:17:57 +0900, Trevor Gulliver
> <cana...@mail.hitel.net> wrote:
>
> >Tell me about it. I left my little town and went to Seoul for a couple days.
> >You'd think I'd be glad not to be stared at and called Mi-guk sa-ram by every
> >kid around but after a day and a half there I began to miss the attention! :P
>
> I know the feeling. When I was travelling India, I was called
> 'Japanese Madame' more than hundred times a day and there were always
> dozens of Indians who wanted to talk with me. No exageration here.
>
> I even ordered a T-shirt and wore it, in front of it I made to
> embroider like this;
>
> NO JAPANESE
> NO GONIZIWA
> NO SAYONARA
> NO MIRUDAKE
>

These days I just respond "Anio! Mi-guk sa-ram an-im-ni-da. Han-guk sa-ram
im-ni-da." We'll argue back and forth and their parents will laugh. I used to try
to explain the concept of 'Canada' but it didn't seem to do much good.

TG

[jay h]

>Do your business, then take your holidays in Thailand, Philippines,
>Japan, Hong Kong, or elsewhere as long as its not Korea

##Say, if time allows, do have a go in Korea. You'll have to find out
for yourself especially if you enjoy trying different things.

>>>I am genuinely interested in Korean culture and history, and I would
>>>like to visit some museums, galleries, temples etc.
>
>Museums are hilarious.
>The War Memorial Museum is about how Korea has been fighting with
>other nations for 6000 years.

## Well, actually, again I'd say try those museums located on the suburbs
or outskirts of Seoul. In fact, if time allows, you definitely have to
check out
the countryside and its museums of course. ^

>>>I am trying to learn a little Korean, but so far I have mastered only a
>>>few basic greetings and "Where is the ....?" type questions.
>
>Forget it, unless your pronunciation is perfect.You will only get the
>dumb Korean look !

From a few minority maybe.

>

>Koreans of all ages will continually ask you the same questions over
>and over, e.g. What do you think of Korea ? Always answer that it's
>the greatest country in the world, otherwise you risk the chance of
>being punched.

Chances are you won't meet people who suddenly walks up to you and
ask questions. I've seen foreigners (purple hair + wearing a Halloween
costume)
once on the #710 bus, but even then they were totally undisturbed.
If one in a million, Koreans do ask you about something, here's what I
recommend you do.

1. toddlers to early teens practicing English
--> Oh...oh...oh I see. By the way, I love the Disney movies.
(Most likely response: Me TOO. (and they'll walk away)

2. Early to late teens
--> Oh..oh... yeah..I see. By the way, I love the smashing pumpkins.
Me TOO. (and gone)

3. those in their twenties (college students)
--> Oh..oh.. yes.. yes (extra emphasis). Actually, I love various OMS.
(Go ahead and list your fav movie if you will.)
Me TOO. (quickly walks away)

4. Anyone older than 30 years (workers white or blue collar)
-->Oh..oh..I understand. Hmm, I think Korea's economic situation will
become
much better soon.
Nods. (gone)

There.... just like that. Then again, I doubt you'll use these lines.
Besides, you'll never get punched either way. There're cameras everywhere
nowadays and most Koreans realize that. You'll find cameras in apartment
buliding elevators, subways, and even in some public toilets. As to whether
they work or not, I don't know.

>
>In addition, be prepared for Koreans to approach you in restaurants,
>bookstores, bars, etc.; and ask you to edit their homework, letters,
>business documents,etc. Don't ever say "NO" or you risk dirty looks,
>nasty comments, or even physical abuse. They may even expect (demand)
>that you sit at their tables. Your time is not your time if they
>require your services or want to practice their English.

Now this will *never* *ever* happen. To tell the truth, 99% of Koreans (if
not all)
are not bold enough to:

approach you in restaurants,
>bookstores, bars, etc.; and ask you to edit their homework, letters,
>business documents,etc.

Then again, there's always a trick you could use.
I suppose you can speak at least one other foreign language? (Spanish,
French whatever)
Try mumbling some of those and go on like this:
ah (awkwardly)... me don't speak England. (The irony is that I've once
seen an English dude
asking a Chinese: "Do you speak England?" The Chinese obviously was
laughing his head off.
Then again, I can't tell if the guy done it on purpose.

>
>Keep your eyes open on the subway and streets for lunatics who may
>take a swing at you. They will think you are either from the IMF or
>the Atomic Energy Commision.You the foreigner are totally responsible
>for Korea's economic woes.

Crap or he's trying to be funny.

[Richard Lee]

chuck (ch...@concentric.net) scribbled:
: >It's same as Koreans getting mistaken for being Chinese or Japanese,

: >in North America. Simply, especially the Chinese, they are the most
: >prominent group in the Americas, and people identify with them more.

: Filipinos are the most prominent group in the States.
: chuck

You are wrong. The Chinese are the largest Asian group in America (as
well as the world) and then Filipinos.

1990 Census Data (7,273,662 Asian Americans, 2.9% of America's population)

1,645,472 Chinese Americans
1,406,770 Filipino Americans
847,562 Japanese Americans
815,447 Asian Indian Americans
798,849 Korean Americans
614,547 Vietnamese Americans
211,014 Hawaiian Americans
62,964 Samoan Americans
49,345 Guamanian Americans
821,692 Other Asian/Pacific Islander American

The above data does not include Eskimos and people who indicate a
mixed-race background. And, now that it is 1998, I would safely assume
that Korean Americans have surpassed Japanese Americans in number, though
with the influx of Asian Indians into America (both in professional
society as doctors and engineers and also in the unskilled labor area as
service people, like 7-11 workers and NYC cab drivers), there may still be
more Asian Indians.

Richard Lee
--
My crappy homepage is http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/2169

[chuck]

On 8 Mar 1998 09:01:50 GMT, lo...@fish.hooked.net (Richard Lee)
boasted:

>: Filipinos are the most prominent group in the States.
>: chuck
>
>You are wrong. The Chinese are the largest Asian group in America (as
>well as the world) and then Filipinos.

I stand corrected.

chuck

[Joseph Hin-bun Mak]

Richard Lee (lo...@fish.hooked.net) wrote:
: You are wrong. The Chinese are the largest Asian group in America (as

: well as the world) and then Filipinos.

yo rich, I think you're wasting your time trying to convince Chucky,
I thought you 'kill' filed him anyways.. ;)

Joe

--
Andre Agassi and John McEnroe call Micheal Chang 'unpatriotic'
for playing heavily in the Asian tennis circuit where competition
is not as well known, and the money is good. How 'unpatriotic' Chang
must have been in 97 when he secured the US into the Davis Cup final,
in the eyes of two athletes who are/have been sponsored by Nike, who
has continued it's practices of cheap labour exploitation in Asia,
subjugating workers to inhumane working conditions, to this very day.

peep game at:
*** Propoganda Land ***
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jhbmak

[KORMAN]

SA wrote in message <35009505...@enews.newsguy.com>...

>Museums are hilarious. I've not been to the national museum for a
>while, since its been moved and rebuilt, but it was basically three or
>four floors of pottery with a few other artifacts. Pretty humdrum !

>The War Memorial Museum is about how Korea has been fighting with

>other nations for 6000 years. Makes you wonder whether this nation
>will ever be at peace.

I'm sorry that Koreans don't have museums for tractor-trailors
and gun-racks, which seems to be more your cup of tea.

>Koreans of all ages will continually ask you the same questions over
>and over, e.g. What do you think of Korea ? Always answer that it's
>the greatest country in the world, otherwise you risk the chance of
>being punched.

It doesn't surprise me that Koreans would want to punch out a
major assh*le like you.

>In addition, be prepared for Koreans to approach you in restaurants,
>bookstores, bars, etc.; and ask you to edit their homework, letters,
>business documents,etc. Don't ever say "NO" or you risk dirty looks,
>nasty comments, or even physical abuse. They may even expect (demand)
>that you sit at their tables. Your time is not your time if they
>require your services or want to practice their English.

Considering the way you respond to the posts on this group, I'm
sure you refused them in the most polite way...

>Wear rubber boots to avoid the pools of excrement you will
>undoubtedly encounter in the subway. Koreans will tell you it's not
>natural to hold your bowels when nature calls. So feel free to
>urinate, defecate, vomit, or spit anywhere you please - it's okay !

Hey idiot, many of the people here have been to the Seoul
subways, and they know that you are full of sh*t. Try
the NY subway sometime and see how the two compare.

>Moreover, be prepared for Korean indoctrination. Every single day you
>will hear how the west lacks any cultural attributes and how superior
>Korea and Korean culture is comparatively. Korea is the only thing
>Koreans will ever talk about with you !

Well, if the only Westerner a Korean meets is SA, I'm not
surprised.

Korman

[Prozac]

I would not complain until you get yourself on NYC subway. NYC subway have
rats running around, and puddle of urine in almost every station. It also
has tons of homeless people occupying subways throughout the day. And you
can get all these great services for mere $1.50.... wow.. what a deal!!!

KORMAN wrote in message <6dvj7f$o...@bolivia.earthlink.net>...

[CHUCKY]

Tell that to Hati Choi in India, when the concept of Korea just didn'tregister, only Japanese.  Following is her work: you may visit her writings
at http://www.webtour.co.kr
 
 
 
 

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TG

 

[Talkyal]

>From: jag...@aol.com (Jaghia)

>Most of the posters in SCK are Korean-americans or Korean-canadians. As such,
>and having spent most of our time here in the States, we have learned how to
>be
>obnoxious and ignorant as only a true-blooded American would

I don't know what "true-blooded obnoxious and ignorant"
Americans you have met, but I suspect you were on a field
trip somewhere near Possum Run, West Virginia.

>If you must decide what the Koreans are like, look to the people with email
>address that end with ".kr" and you will notice that they are more courteous
>and less abraisive than people like me.

Ah, back to the normal Korean auto-asskissing, I see.
As if Korean people are all these great holy angels who
can do no wrong, abused by the evil Americans.
Yep, it's nice to smell the same 'ole bullshit again.

EGG

[Jaghia]

Dalgyal wrote:

>>From: jag...@aol.com (Jaghia)
>
>>Most of the posters in SCK are Korean-americans or Korean-canadians. As
>such,
>>and having spent most of our time here in the States, we have learned how to
>>be
>>obnoxious and ignorant as only a true-blooded American would
>
>I don't know what "true-blooded obnoxious and ignorant"
>Americans you have met, but I suspect you were on a field
>trip somewhere near Possum Run, West Virginia.

Why do you ask me that? Do you think SA is from West Virginia? Were you born
there? Didn't you write once that you are from Texas somewhere? Like Wacko,
Texas?

>>If you must decide what the Koreans are like, look to the people with email
>>address that end with ".kr" and you will notice that they are more courteous
>>and less abraisive than people like me.
>
>Ah, back to the normal Korean auto-asskissing, I see.
>As if Korean people are all these great holy angels who
>can do no wrong, abused by the evil Americans.
>Yep, it's nice to smell the same 'ole bullshit again.
>
>EGG

Puhahaha. I don't auto-asskiss anyone. And you should refer from that too. Your
nose is getting too browny. But the truth is truth. Have you ever been to
France? Why do you think they hate Americans and yet love Canadians? And for
examples closer to you, just read some of the posts done by Americans like SA.

[Talkyal]

>From: "KORMAN" <KOR...@DOMAIN.COM>

>I'm sorry that Koreans don't have museums for tractor-trailors
>and gun-racks, which seems to be more your cup of tea.

Is that image similar to the one I saw in Kyunggi-do, with
the Korean hillbilly riding his moped in front of our car,
blood dripping from the gutted dog that he just processed
and strapped to the bagoonee on the back of his moped?

>>Koreans of all ages will continually ask you the same questions over
>>and over, e.g. What do you think of Korea ? Always answer that it's
>>the greatest country in the world, otherwise you risk the chance of
>>being punched.
>
>It doesn't surprise me that Koreans would want to punch out a
>major assh*le like you.

It doesn't surprise me that you don't know shit about Korean
culture's repetitiveness:
The three questions that I was asked 1387 times a day in Korea,
1. Are you married?
2. Where are you from?
3. Can you teach me English?
While the questions themselves are innocent, it was EXTREMELY obvious to me
that some of these Koreans
were just using the opportunity to practice their English
with an unsuspecting foreigner.

You know, I have said in this newsgroup 50000 times that
it is very taxing on a foreigner in Korea to be hounded with
attention by the Koreans, and STILL, Koreans / KA's in this
newsgroup act like ALL Westerners in Korea love the attention
and can't wait to be "English-ogled" by "English-fanatic-Koreans"
(Trevor Gulliver is one who loves this) who only meet one foreigner in 7 years
who they can practice English with.
And, yet, try starting a conversation in Korean with a native
in Korea. They will quickly get bored and walk away from you.
Most likely because my Korean isn't high-level enough to hold
a fascinating, highly opinionated socio-political debate with a
Korean. WELL, OH MY, what do you think Western tourists feel
like when Koreans want to practice their Dr. Seuss sentences
with Westerners 1000 times a day?

EGG

[Jaghia]

멋진 셔츠를 입고 다녔군요.

그런데 한가지 물어 봐도 돼유?

1. NO MIRUDAKE

노가 미루다께 앞에 붙었으니 구경만 하지 말구
만져두 된다는거야유?

2. HORN PLEASE

이겄두 스팰링이 잘못 됐거 아니야유?
혹시 HORNY PLEASE 가 아닌가베?

아주 맘에 드는 셔츠인데 사진좀 봐두 될까유?

해티가 썼다:

> 앞: NO JAPANESE 뒤: HORN PLEASE
> NO GONNIZIWA
> NO SAYONARA
> NO MIRUDAKE(구경만 하세요란 뜻)

[CHUCKY]

Jaghia wrote:

> Puhahaha. I don't auto-asskiss anyone. And you should refer from that too. Your
> nose is getting too browny. But the truth is truth. Have you ever been to
> France? Why do you think they hate Americans and yet love Canadians? And for
> examples closer to you, just read some of the posts done by Americans like SA.
> _

Puff! What was that sound? Why, it was Jaghia's foot entering his
mouth. Yes Jaghia, you've got your foot in your mouth.
SA's Canadian, pure red and white Maple Leaf Canadian.

[Jaghia]

Oh well. Just goes to show that not all Canadians are liberal-minded nice
"westerners."

_

[JunHo45]

Not necessarily. Some are non-koreans who are living in Korea.
And many of the hate-filled posts that come from both non-korean and korean
posters alike. They sound more like personal diatribes and vendettas by nature
rather than an expression of genuine truth about things Korean and Korea
itself.

[Hati Choi]

On 9 Mar 1998 03:58:03 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:

Don't give me attitude, pal. I warned you.
If you have questions, raise your hand quietly and ask me politely.
This'll be the last time that I forgive you.

>멋진 셔츠를 입고 다녔군요.
>
>그런데 한가지 물어 봐도 돼유?
>
>
>1. NO MIRUDAKE
>
>노가 미루다께 앞에 붙었으니 구경만 하지 말구
>만져두 된다는거야유?
>

I don't know Japanese, so mirudake was a new word for me. The Indians
told me that it means 'Just look at my goods. (You don't need to buy
them).' But I heard from a Japanese boy that it's kinda customers'
word which means 'Sorry, but can I just look at your goods?'.
Anyways, the 'NO' means for me, 'Don't say to me that...'

>2. HORN PLEASE
>
>이겄두 스팰링이 잘못 됐거 아니야유?
>혹시 HORNY PLEASE 가 아닌가베?

No mistake in spellings. If you have been to India & Nepal, you
wouldn't ask me such a dumb & dirty question.
Here's my explanation;
You can harldy find Indian Vehicles (cars, buses, trucks,
autorickshaws(tricycles)) which have rear mirrors.
Instead, all the buses and trucks write big 'HORN PLEASE' on their
back, which tells, "Do you want to pass me? If you want to, horn
please since I cannot see you."
When I arrived in Kathmandu, I had a bad experience. I got hit by a
bicycle, which hurt my arm badly. When my friends asked him to
apologize to me, the rude guy surprisingly answered, "My bicycle
doesn't have eyes. It's her fault." Then, just walked away. That's why
I let the words embrodiered on the back. Cuz I didn't have rear
mirrors.

>아주 맘에 드는 셔츠인데 사진좀 봐두 될까유?

Sorry, I gave it to my friend who has been to India next to me. I
don't have any picture with it.
>
>해티가 썼다:

Watch out your pronounciation, boy. It's 하티.

>> 앞: NO JAPANESE 뒤: HORN PLEASE
>> NO GONNIZIWA
>> NO SAYONARA
>> NO MIRUDAKE(구경만 하세요란 뜻)

[CHUCKY]

Hati Choi wrote:

> On 9 Mar 1998 03:58:03 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:
>
> Don't give me attitude, pal. I warned you.
> If you have questions, raise your hand quietly and ask me politely.
> This'll be the last time that I forgive you.
>

ho ho ho ha hahaha he he he hahahahaha..

Jaghia, I think she's more than you can handle.
I suggest you retreat quietly.

hahahaha..

> >> 앞: NO JAPANESE 뒤: HORN PLEASE
> >> NO GONNIZIWA
> >> NO SAYONARA
> >> NO MIRUDAKE(구경만 하세요란 뜻)

[KORMAN]

Talkyal wrote in message <19980309034...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>From: "KORMAN" <KOR...@DOMAIN.COM>

>It doesn't surprise me that you don't know shit about Korean
>culture's repetitiveness:
>The three questions that I was asked 1387 times a day in Korea,
>1. Are you married?
>2. Where are you from?
>3. Can you teach me English?

Hey Sowa!

Are you married?

Where are you from?

Can you teach me to be an assh@le like you?

Korman

[austin seo]

Just goes to show that even repressed white-boy canadians can be
asswipes when let loose from their habitat.

Like all the attention? Never got it here while you were growing up, eh?

No wonder you're still there buttfuck.

SA wrote:
<snip>
--

Austin Seo (Hae Jin)

Graduate Programme in Neuroscience
Centre for Molecular Medicine and Therapeutics
e-mail: hae...@netinfo.ubc.ca

[Jaghia]

하티가 갈겼다:

>
>On 9 Mar 1998 03:58:03 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:
>
>Don't give me attitude, pal. I warned you.
>If you have questions, raise your hand quietly and ask me politely.
>This'll be the last time that I forgive you.

아이구... 하티씬 농담두 못 받아 주는거야유?
손 들어 봤자 꼬시게 하기라두 할낑가유?

>
>>멋진 셔츠를 입고 다녔군요.
>>
>>그런데 한가지 물어 봐도 돼유?
>>
>>
>>1. NO MIRUDAKE
>>
>>노가 미루다께 앞에 붙었으니 구경만 하지 말구
>>만져두 된다는거야유?
>>
>I don't know Japanese, so mirudake was a new word for me. The Indians
>told me that it means 'Just look at my goods. (You don't need to buy
>them).' But I heard from a Japanese boy that it's kinda customers'
>word which means 'Sorry, but can I just look at your goods?'.
>Anyways, the 'NO' means for me, 'Don't say to me that...'

하티씨에겐 그런 뜻인질 모르겠지만 인도에 그리 많이 다니는
일본인들은 하티씨의 셔츠를 보고 얼마나 유혹을 참느라구 혼났겠어유?
나 같아두 한국 여자가 그런 셔츠를 입ㅅ고 다니면 침이 꿀떡 꿀떡
할텐데... 힛죽...

>>2. HORN PLEASE
>>
>>이겄두 스팰링이 잘못 됐거 아니야유?
>>혹시 HORNY PLEASE 가 아닌가베?
>
>No mistake in spellings. If you have been to India & Nepal, you
>wouldn't ask me such a dumb & dirty question.
>Here's my explanation;
>You can harldy find Indian Vehicles (cars, buses, trucks,
>autorickshaws(tricycles)) which have rear mirrors.
>Instead, all the buses and trucks write big 'HORN PLEASE' on their
>back, which tells, "Do you want to pass me? If you want to, horn
>please since I cannot see you."
>When I arrived in Kathmandu, I had a bad experience. I got hit by a
>bicycle, which hurt my arm badly. When my friends asked him to
>apologize to me, the rude guy surprisingly answered, "My bicycle
>doesn't have eyes. It's her fault." Then, just walked away. That's why
>I let the words embrodiered on the back. Cuz I didn't have rear
>mirrors.

에구 그렇구만유. 실레...
그런데 내가 풀어본 단어 가 더 재미 있네유.

>>아주 맘에 드는 셔츠인데 사진좀 봐두 될까유?
>
>Sorry, I gave it to my friend who has been to India next to me. I
>don't have any picture with it.

그럼 셔츠 입지 않은 몸 사진두 좋아유. 빨랑 보내 주세유. 잉?

>>해티가 썼다:
>
>Watch out your pronounciation, boy. It's 하티.

또 실레...미안 해유...

>>> 앞: NO JAPANESE 뒤: HORN PLEASE
>>> NO GONNIZIWA
>>> NO SAYONARA
>>> NO MIRUDAKE(구경만 하세요란 뜻)

자기야...

[Jenney Choi]

CHUCKY <dry...@istar.ca> wrote:
: No, they're probably staring at your blouse withfood stains.

That could be true, but when I was in Korea I rarely ate.

--
Ey
Galactic dust girl surfs her wave of mirth [Bleach]

[CHUCKY]

Jaghia wrote:

That's it Jag. Watch out you're dead meat. hahahahaha..

[apak]

Talkyal (tal...@aol.com) wrote:
: You know, I have said in this newsgroup 50000 times that
: (blah, blah, blah)

Let's see...you've been posting continually for the last year or so, and maybe
for a year before you were humiliated out of sck for a while, so let's say you've
been posting for two years....50000 times would mean about 69 posts per day...I
think you've underestimated yourself, eggboy...it's gotta be much more than that
(or so it seems)...

[Talkyal]

>From: "KORMAN" <KOR...@DOMAIN.COM>

>Are you married?
>Where are you from?
>Can you teach me to be an assh@le like you?

You see. Proof.
Next topic, please.

EGG

[SA]

Thanks for the kind words Austin Seo. I'll be sure to pass them on to
the next Korean I meet when I'm in Vancouver again !

SA

[Hati Choi]

On 10 Mar 1998 03:14:40 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:

>하티가 갈겼다:

>아이구... 하티씬 농담두 못 받아 주는거야유?
>손 들어 봤자 꼬시게 하기라두 할낑가유?

>하티씨에겐 그런 뜻인질 모르겠지만 인도에 그리 많이 다니는

>일본인들은 하티씨의 셔츠를 보고 얼마나 유혹을 참느라구 혼났겠어유?
>나 같아두 한국 여자가 그런 셔츠를 입ㅅ고 다니면 침이 꿀떡 꿀떡
>할텐데... 힛죽...

>에구 그렇구만유. 실레...

>그런데 내가 풀어본 단어 가 더 재미 있네유.
>

>그럼 셔츠 입지 않은 몸 사진두 좋아유. 빨랑 보내 주세유. 잉?
>

>또 실레...미안 해유...

>자기야...

자기'애'님,

난 댁이, 그간 올린 글로 보아, 아주 구제불능인 분이라고 생각하지는
않아요.
(처키 옛날 여자 친구에게 전화했다고 했을 때를 제외하고는요.)
여기 있는 남자들이, 스테파니가 이상한 애였다고 의견을 모으고 있고,
댁이 나를 스테파니 비슷한 여자로 몰아간다고 해도,
내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지 댁한테 알려줘야 할 것 같군요.

처음부터 일관되게 주장하는 바지만,
난 댁한테 희롱당하고 싶은 생각이 없어요.
댁하고 수작을 주고 받을 생각도 없구요.
난, 이 뉴스그룹에 한 '인간'으로서 참여하고 있지, '여자'로서 참여하고
있는 게 아니라는 걸 분명히 해둡시다.
어딘가에 댁과 음담패설을 주고받으며 즐거워할 여자가 있을지는
모르겠지만, 난 댁의 그 여자가 아니예요.

댁이 나한테 그렇게까지 심하게 대했다고는 생각하지 않아요. 아마, 그쪽
입장에서는 나한테 이런 얘기를 듣는 게 억울할 수도 있겠지요.
하지만, 난, 아무튼, 아무리 가벼울 지라도 '성적으로 희롱당하는 여자'가
되는 데 강한 반감을 갖고 있어요. 다른 사람이 싫어하는 일을 하지 않는
게 우리가 지켜야 할 '인간에 대한 예의' 아닐까요?

부디 좋은 관계를 해치지 않도록 자중해 주시기를, 진심으로, 정중하게
부탁합니다.

하티.

[austin seo]

Ooohhh! I can't wait! Maybe you'll be one of those geeky ESL teachers (I
somehow wouldn't be suprised if you considered being an ESL teacher back
in Vancouver) that I always see who are trying to hang out with the
yoohaksaeng crowd...and you can teach them of your impressions of and
your travails in their ridiculuous and backward home country.

I *just* can't wait...

SA wrote:

> Thanks for the kind words Austin Seo. I'll be sure to pass them on to
> the next Korean I meet when I'm in Vancouver again !

--

[Woong Yi]

you never know though what you'll encounter, but what ever you do think
twice, cause one stupid incedent can fuck you up good, you know like
other places. you might get your throat cut, and get robbed, but its a
cool place if you know whats goin on, you know what I mean?

[CHUCKY]

Hati Choi wrote:

> 자기'애'님,
>
> 난 댁이, 그간 올린 글로 보아, 아주 구제불능인 분이라고 생각하지는
> 않아요.
> (처키 옛날 여자 친구에게 전화했다고 했을 때를 제외하고는요.)
> 여기 있는 남자들이, 스테파니가 이상한 애였다고 의견을 모으고 있고,
> 댁이 나를 스테파니 비슷한 여자로 몰아간다고 해도,
> 내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지 댁한테 알려줘야 할 것 같군요.
>
> 처음부터 일관되게 주장하는 바지만,
> 난 댁한테 희롱당하고 싶은 생각이 없어요.
> 댁하고 수작을 주고 받을 생각도 없구요.
> 난, 이 뉴스그룹에 한 '인간'으로서 참여하고 있지, '여자'로서 참여하고
> 있는 게 아니라는 걸 분명히 해둡시다.
> 어딘가에 댁과 음담패설을 주고받으며 즐거워할 여자가 있을지는
> 모르겠지만, 난 댁의 그 여자가 아니예요.
>
> 댁이 나한테 그렇게까지 심하게 대했다고는 생각하지 않아요. 아마, 그쪽
> 입장에서는 나한테 이런 얘기를 듣는 게 억울할 수도 있겠지요.
> 하지만, 난, 아무튼, 아무리 가벼울 지라도 '성적으로 희롱당하는 여자'가
> 되는 데 강한 반감을 갖고 있어요. 다른 사람이 싫어하는 일을 하지 않는
> 게 우리가 지켜야 할 '인간에 대한 예의' 아닐까요?
>
> 부디 좋은 관계를 해치지 않도록 자중해 주시기를, 진심으로, 정중하게
> 부탁합니다.
>
> 하티.

Jag boy, I don't think she's the girl for you, you had
better quit while you're ahead.

[Michael Kim]

Hati Choi (hotn...@chollian.net) wrote:

: On 10 Mar 1998 03:14:40 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:

: 자기'애'님,

: 난 댁이, 그간 올린 글로 보아, 아주 구제불능인 분이라고 생각하지는
: 않아요.
: (처키 옛날 여자 친구에게 전화했다고 했을 때를 제외하고는요.)
: 여기 있는 남자들이, 스테파니가 이상한 애였다고 의견을 모으고 있고,
: 댁이 나를 스테파니 비슷한 여자로 몰아간다고 해도,
: 내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지 댁한테 알려줘야 할 것 같군요.

I just thought it was interesting how offensive jaghia sounds in Korean,
yet when I read a similar exhange in english, I think nothing of it.

Well, I'm getting a bit nostalgic, but back when I first started to lurk
on sck around 1990, it used to shock me when I saw such ribald
comments. But after a while, you get so used to it that it all becomes
rather banal.

Hati-ssi makes some interesting points about internet propriety, but I
suspect in a few years, the han. groups will become just as
no-holds-barred as s.c.k. You hate to restrain the creativity that makes
this newsgroup such a comical madhouse, but you also don't want to
discourage people with more "civilized" sensibilities from participating.

I do wonder sometimes, how many people are inhibited from participating on
s.c.k. because of all the verbal abuse that goes on. It would be an
interesting topic for a survey.

M. Kim

[Matthew Salter]

Michael Kim wrote:
>
> Hati Choi (hotn...@chollian.net) wrote:

> : 자기'애'님,
>
> : 난 댁이, 그간 올린 글로 보아, 아주 구제불능인 분이라고 생각하지는
> : 않아요.
> : (처키 옛날 여자 친구에게 전화했다고 했을 때를 제외하고는요.)
> : 여기 있는 남자들이, 스테파니가 이상한 애였다고 의견을 모으고 있고,
> : 댁이 나를 스테파니 비슷한 여자로 몰아간다고 해도,
> : 내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지 댁한테 알려줘야 할 것 같군요.

[SNIP!]

> I do wonder sometimes, how many people are inhibited from participating on
> s.c.k. because of all the verbal abuse that goes on. It would be an
> interesting topic for a survey.

Any chance of a translation for those of us who don't have Hangul web
browsers and for whom the above Korean comes up as random junk on the
screen ?

Matthew

[CHUCKY]

Matthew Salter wrote:

Matthew? Why don't you configure your netscape to read
Hangul (if you don't know how, EGG will soon write
up an instruction), or download Unionway Hangul
version (30 day free tryout, or if you have datecracker,
to crack the date code, it will be free software)??
Get it free at www.unionway.com

As for translation, ask dh_a. He offers free service.

[Jaghia]

하티씨에게: 사과 드립니다...

내가 장난반 농담반 썼던 포스트가 하티씨의 신경을 건드렸다 봅니다.
그런줄도 모르고 계속 농담 했던겄 사과 드립니다.
이제부턴 하티씨에게 농담을 절대로 안하겠습니다.
그리고 전 여자들에게 성 희롱을 한다는 생각을 절대로 해본적이 없습니다.
저 역시 아는 친구들은 진보적인 사회 를 꿈꾸는 아이라고 합니다.
그러므로 전 한 인간이 다른 인간에게 불공평스럽게 힘과 지휘, 그리고
앞력을 가하는겄에 반대 합니다.
그러나 한가지는 이야기 하고 지나갔으면 합니다.
Sexual Harassment 가 한국말로 성 희롱이 되는지는 모르겠습니다.
이 Sexual Harassment 라는 단어는 미국에서 상당히 희미한 뜻을
갖고 있습니다. 그러므로 http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/harass.html
같은 곳에서도 이겄을 아직 정확 하게 파학하지 못하고 있습니다.
그런대 제가 농담 한겄을 성희롱과 관련 시킨다면 전 진실로 억울 합니다.
이 뉴스 구릅은 직장과 같이 위 아래가 없는 곳에서 시작 됩니다.
다만 당신은 여자이고 여자로서 태어 났다는 이유로 억울하게
여자들은 수천년 동안 당했습니다. 그래서 누가 당신에게 여자로
성적인 농담을 하면 그걸 성의 희롱으로 생각돼며 self defense
mechanism 이 자용 될지 모르겠습니다.
그런 면이 있던 당신을 제가 몰라서 죄송합니다.
그리고 이건 문화 차이도 있겠지만 전 다른 미국 여자들한테
그런 성에 관련 된 농담을 하면 미국 여자들는 한수를 더 떠
나의 성에 관련 된 농담을 합니다.예를 들어서 넌 데이도 못하냐,
아니면 네 그게 작다든지, 하여튼 직장에선 못하는 말들을 이
인터넷 그리고 채팅 등에선 잘 받아 줍니다.
그겄에 비교 해서 한국 여자들은 정말로 fragile 한겄인지
왜 대담하지 못하는 건지 한숨을 쉴때가 많습니다.
그렇다고 직장에서까지 그런 성에 대한 농담을 받아 드리라는건
절대로 아닙니다. 전 여옥씨가 "여성이여, 테러리스트가 되라" 에서
"나는 여성 문제야 말로 전 여성이 테러리스트로서 접근할 문제라
고 본다. 남성의 여성에 대한 지배, 여성에 대한 근거 없는 차별과
멸시, 성적 희롱과 학대에 대해 이제 전 여성이 그릇된 문명의 파괴자
로서 "테러리스트"로서 이땅에 서야 될 때라고 본다." 라고 그랬듯이
남자를 (특히 직장에선) 한두번 흔들어 놓으고 "무서운 여자구나"
하고 뒤에서 그럴 많큼 해쥐야 한다고 밑습니다.
이거 너무나 길게 된겄 같은데 하여튼 이 뉴스 구릅에서 성 적으로
농담하는 남자들이, 이세상에 남녀 구별이 있을때까진 안 없어 질태니
그리고 그런 남자들 (저 포함) 과 농담 하고 잘 주고 받는 여자들도
있을테니 하티씬 signature file 에다가 성 농담은 금지 라고 써주셨
으면 어떨까 하는게 제 의견입니다.
그리고 다시 한번 진실로 사과 드립니다.

In article <3506b0de...@news.chollian.net>, hotn...@chollian.net (Hati
Choi) writes:

>
>On 10 Mar 1998 03:14:40 GMT, jag...@aol.com (Jaghia) wrote:
>

>>하티가 갈겼다:
>
>>아이구... 하티씬 농담두 못 받아 주는거야유?
>>손 들어 봤자 꼬시게 하기라두 할낑가유?
>
>>하티씨에겐 그런 뜻인질 모르겠지만 인도에 그리 많이 다니는
>>일본인들은 하티씨의 셔츠를 보고 얼마나 유혹을 참느라구 혼났겠어유?
>>나 같아두 한국 여자가 그런 셔츠를 입ㅅ고 다니면 침이 꿀떡 꿀떡
>>할텐데... 힛죽...
>
>>에구 그렇구만유. 실레...
>>그런데 내가 풀어본 단어 가 더 재미 있네유.
>>
>
>>그럼 셔츠 입지 않은 몸 사진두 좋아유. 빨랑 보내 주세유. 잉?
>>
>
>>또 실레...미안 해유...
>
>>자기야...
>

>자기'애'님,
>
>난 댁이, 그간 올린 글로 보아, 아주 구제불능인 분이라고 생각하지는
>않아요.
>(처키 옛날 여자 친구에게 전화했다고 했을 때를 제외하고는요.)
>여기 있는 남자들이, 스테파니가 이상한 애였다고 의견을 모으고 있고,
>댁이 나를 스테파니 비슷한 여자로 몰아간다고 해도,
>내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지 댁한테 알려줘야 할 것 같군요.
>

>처음부터 일관되게 주장하는 바지만,
>난 댁한테 희롱당하고 싶은 생각이 없어요.
>댁하고 수작을 주고 받을 생각도 없구요.
>난, 이 뉴스그룹에 한 '인간'으로서 참여하고 있지, '여자'로서 참여하고
>있는 게 아니라는 걸 분명히 해둡시다.
>어딘가에 댁과 음담패설을 주고받으며 즐거워할 여자가 있을지는
>모르겠지만, 난 댁의 그 여자가 아니예요.
>
>댁이 나한테 그렇게까지 심하게 대했다고는 생각하지 않아요. 아마, 그쪽
>입장에서는 나한테 이런 얘기를 듣는 게 억울할 수도 있겠지요.
>하지만, 난, 아무튼, 아무리 가벼울 지라도 '성적으로 희롱당하는 여자'가
>되는 데 강한 반감을 갖고 있어요. 다른 사람이 싫어하는 일을 하지 않는
>게 우리가 지켜야 할 '인간에 대한 예의' 아닐까요?
>
>부디 좋은 관계를 해치지 않도록 자중해 주시기를, 진심으로, 정중하게
>부탁합니다.
>
>하티.
>
>

[Jaghia]

I am sure my comments could have been misconstrued as being offensive by many
women who might have read my post. However, I wonder if the offensive nature of
my post lies more so on the position from which the reader comes from, and the
inherent cultural and societal differences, than the actual content of my post
itself. In explicitly, I now realize that what an average American might
consider a harmless flirtation on the net might be construed as being offensive
and sexist by Korean standard. Let us take the words I have written, one
paragraph at a time:

1.

>아이구... 하티씬 농담두 못 받아 주는거야유?
>손 들어 봤자 꼬시게 하기라두 할낑가유?

Literally translated, it says:
"Darn it, you can't even take a joke, Hati?
Even if I held up my hand to ask you if I may flirt with you, I doubt that you
will allow me do so."

I don't find this offensive at all in neither Korean nor American standard.
Next paragraph:

2.

>하티씨에겐 그런 뜻인질 모르겠지만 인도에 그리 많이 다니는
>일본인들은 하티씨의 셔츠를 보고 얼마나 유혹을 참느라구 혼났겠어유?
>나 같아두 한국 여자가 그런 셔츠를 입ㅅ고 다니면 침이 꿀떡 꿀떡
>할텐데... 힛죽...

"You might have meant it that way, but think of how many numerous Japanese in
India might have had hard time controlling their temptation after reading the
print on your t-shirt. If I were to see a Korean woman walking around with that
type of t-shirt, I am sure my mouth would have been drooling as well.
Hehehe..."

I do not see how my comment on the possible reaction of Japanese tourists or my
possible reaction to seeing such clothing on a woman might constitute a sexual
harassment here in the United States.

3.

>에구 그렇구만유. 실레...
>그런데 내가 풀어본 단어 가 더 재미 있네유.
>

"Oh, I see. Excuse me...still, I like my interpretation better."

No sexual harassment here.

4.

>그럼 셔츠 입지 않은 몸 사진두 좋아유. 빨랑 보내 주세유. 잉?
>

"(If you don't have that t-shirt anymore,) I would like a picture of yourself
without that t-shirt. Send me immediately. Please?"

Now, this, I admit, if translated literally, could read as "then, I would like
a picture of yourself without that t-shirt." meaning a nude or bra-only
t-shirt. However, in the context of the thread that I was following up with
Hati, it is clear the reference was to a picture regardless of the t-shirt, but
not necessarily a nude one. Could this have been constituted as a sexual
harassment? What constitutes a sexual harassment? According to one poster on
newsgroups, the following definition is suggested:

>> >The definition of "sexual harassment," last time there actually was one
>> >anyway, was that it was NOT harassment unless either (a)the victim was
>> >threatened, whether with bodily injury or career injury, or (b)if it did
>> >not stop after the victim requests that it stop.

If we apply the above definition to the present case, we would note that (a) I
did not threaten with a bodily injury nor a career injury and (b) once Hati
wrote that she didn't want any more "sung heerong", I stopped immediately and
furthermore, I apologized to her in front of all other newsgroup readers on
another post.

5.

>또 실레...미안 해유...

>자기야...

"Another error... I apologize..."

"Your dear..."

No sexual harassment in here, as much as I can tell.

Therefore, in conclusion, we should note that there really is no objective
standard for "sexual harassments", but attempt to define our own rules so that
we can recognize other peoples' rights as human beings. Although I do feel I
was unjustly accused of being a sexual predator, I recognize the fact that we
find victims of certain sexual situations as we find them, sometimes, fragile
as eggshell. Thus, I think a reasonable way to delineate and define what
constitutes a sexual harassment over the net is to define it as the poster
above mentioned. That is, if someone continued to harass another person even
after that person told him to stop, then that would constitute a sexual
harassment.

In article <6e85g4$ffn$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>, ki...@fas.harvard.edu (Michael
Kim) writes:

>I just thought it was interesting how offensive jaghia sounds in Korean,
>yet when I read a similar exhange in english, I think nothing of it.
>
>Well, I'm getting a bit nostalgic, but back when I first started to lurk
>on sck around 1990, it used to shock me when I saw such ribald
>comments. But after a while, you get so used to it that it all becomes
>rather banal.
>
>Hati-ssi makes some interesting points about internet propriety, but I
>suspect in a few years, the han. groups will become just as
>no-holds-barred as s.c.k. You hate to restrain the creativity that makes
>this newsgroup such a comical madhouse, but you also don't want to
>discourage people with more "civilized" sensibilities from participating.
>

>I do wonder sometimes, how many people are inhibited from participating on
>s.c.k. because of all the verbal abuse that goes on. It would be an
>interesting topic for a survey.
>

>M. Kim

[Jaghia]

Who says I was ahead? I don't consider flirtation a game of who is ahead and
who is behind. And, yes, I am quiting my flirtation with Hati immediately.

In article <35073CE7...@istar.ca>, CHUNKY <dry...@istar.ca> writes:

>
> Jag boy, I don't think she's the girl for you, you had
>better quit while you're ahead.
>
>

[Michael Kim]

>
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Distribution:

I just had some suggested revisions of the translations. I thought it
would help "smooth" out the translation.

dha...@hotmail.com wrote:
: >아이구... 하티씬 농담두 못 받아 주는거야유?

: >손 들어 봤자 꼬시게 하기라두 할낑가유?

: Alas... Ms.Hati, don't you understand my kidding?
: Will you accept my asking to go out if i surrender?

Alas...Ms Hati, can't you take a joke?
Would you pick me, even if I raised my hand (referring to a
previous statement that he shouldn't speak unless acknowledged)

: >하티씨에겐 그런 뜻인질 모르겠지만 인도에 그리 많이 다니는

: >일본인들은 하티씨의 셔츠를 보고 얼마나 유혹을 참느라구 혼났겠어유?
: >나 같아두 한국 여자가 그런 셔츠를 입ㅅ고 다니면 침이 꿀떡 꿀떡
: >할텐데... 힛죽...

: I suppose you had a different meaning in your words. However, let's
: think about lots of Japs going around India. Surely, they resisted
: temptation with difficulty as looking at your shirts. As for me, if i see
: a korean girl in such shirts, she would make my mouth waters with
: sexual greed... grinning...

I suppose you meant something else. However, just imagine what a hard
time those Japanese going around India must have had resisting temptation
after they saw your shirt. Even my mouth would water if I saw a Korean
girl walk around with a shirt like that...grin...

: >그럼 셔츠 입지 않은 몸 사진두 좋아유. 빨랑 보내 주세유. 잉?

: Send me your picture of topless in hurry, please.

Send me a topless picture of you in a hurry, please.

: +Hati replied,

: >자기'애'님,

: >
: >난 댁이, 그간 올린 글로 보아, 아주 구제불능인 분이라고 생각하지는
: >않아요.
: >(처키 옛날 여자 친구에게 전화했다고 했을 때를 제외하고는요.)
: >여기 있는 남자들이, 스테파니가 이상한 애였다고 의견을 모으고 있고,
: >댁이 나를 스테파니 비슷한 여자로 몰아간다고 해도,
: >내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지 댁한테 알려줘야 할 것 같군요.

: Dear Mr.jaghia,(Hati stressed the syllable 애. When 'jaghia' is pronounced
: in korean, it has two or so meanings. One is self-loving. Another is
: Hey You
: Kid! I don't guess which one she did mean. dha's remark)

: I don't consider you a nuts as reading the articles posted by you until now.
: (except the case that you said you had tried to call CHUCKY's ex-girl friend.)
: Men in this NG are making a consensus that Stephani was an abnormal girl
: and you are considering and driving me to a same girl like she. However,
: i'd better talking to you my idea.

Dear Mr. jaghia,

I don't consider you to be a hopeless person even after reading your
shocking words. (except for the time you said you had tried to call
CHUCKY's ex-girl friend) Men in this NG seem to agree that Stephani is a
strange girl. You are treating me as though I was a woman like
Stephani, so I think I have to tell you what I think.

: >
: >처음부터 일관되게 주장하는 바지만,

: >난 댁한테 희롱당하고 싶은 생각이 없어요.
: >댁하고 수작을 주고 받을 생각도 없구요.
: >난, 이 뉴스그룹에 한 '인간'으로서 참여하고 있지, '여자'로서 참여하고
: >있는 게 아니라는 걸 분명히 해둡시다.
: >어딘가에 댁과 음담패설을 주고받으며 즐거워할 여자가 있을지는
: >모르겠지만, 난 댁의 그 여자가 아니예요.

: I've been urging from the beginning of the debate.
: I do not want to be harassed sexually by you.
: Neither do i have desire to talk with you silly things.
: I declare that i'm joining this NG not a woman but a human being.
: I say it's a fact clearly.
: I suppose wherever you will find a woman enjoying talking with you
: with a sexual topic. But i am not the one you want to do.

Like I've been consistently telling you from the beginning of this
discussion, I don't want to be the butt of your jokes(harassment). Nor do
I have a desire to exchange such conversations. I want to make it clear
that I am participating in this NG as a 'human being,' not as a 'woman.'
I suppose you can find women who enjoy having lewd conversations with
you no matter where you go, but I am not a woman who does.

: >
: >댁이 나한테 그렇게까지 심하게 대했다고는 생각하지 않아요. 아마, 그쪽

: >입장에서는 나한테 이런 얘기를 듣는 게 억울할 수도 있겠지요.
: >하지만, 난, 아무튼, 아무리 가벼울 지라도 '성적으로 희롱당하는 여자'가
: >되는 데 강한 반감을 갖고 있어요. 다른 사람이 싫어하는 일을 하지 않는
: >게 우리가 지켜야 할 '인간에 대한 예의' 아닐까요?

: >
: I don't think you treated me so severely. Probably, you would not understand
: my criticizing and you would think you are falsely charged by me.
: Anyway, I have an strong antipathy to being a woman sexually harassed.
: You should not mistreat anybody. Don't you think it is the obligation?

I don't think that you treated me that harshly. You probably think that
my criticisms are unfair. But, in any case, I have a strong antipathy
towards becoming a woman who has to suffer from being sexually harassed,
(no matter how frivolous the intention). Avoiding actions that others
find distasteful is a "courtesy towards others" that we should maintain,
wouldn't you agree?

M. Kim

[Michael Kim]

Jaghia (jag...@aol.com) wrote:
: I am sure my comments could have been misconstrued as being offensive by many

: women who might have read my post. However, I wonder if the offensive nature of
: my post lies more so on the position from which the reader comes from, and the
: inherent cultural and societal differences, than the actual content of my post
: itself. In explicitly, I now realize that what an average American might

Nice translations BTW.

Anyway, I think it's partly cultural differences like you say. In
Korean, the kind of conversation that you had with Hati would only occur
if you two were on much more familiar ground (and in private). It would
also tend to occur among people of a certain shall we say "social group"
for lack of a better word. When you engaged in such a conversation with
her, that implies that she too belongs to a particular group of people
that she does not want to be associated with. In that sense, your post
seemed to be insulting.

Such linguistic implications might have existed in english years ago, but
the internet has largely destroyed much of that sense. So had you written
those words in english, I don't think it would have had the same impact.

I always find it quite interesting how speaking Korean makes you aware of
your relationship with the person you are talking to. Since I became
fluent in Korean only a few years ago (after about 6-7 years of study)
I become uncomfortable when someone I just met uses "banmal" or plain form
with me. It didn't used to bother me when I first started to learn the
language. I'm not sure when I developed this sense, but it just appeared
one day.

It's also strange when I meet a native Korean and we initiate a
conversation in english and switch to Korean. You go from an informal
relationship suddenly to a formal one. There's an abrupt sense of
disjuncture when the switch takes place.

It's very easy to offend someone when speaking Korean, especially if you
don't observe the linguistic conventions. A lot of Americans/gyopos
learning Korean initially fail to grasp this point, and they wonder why
Koreans are turned off by their Korean. I've met a lot of westerners who
speak Korean, but its a rare individual who's masters all the subtleties
of the language (but they do exist). The situation is somewhat
complicated by the fact that some Koreans have different expectations than
others about the polite forms. Younger Koreans tend to be less sensitive
to the honorifics, but even among the younger ones, there will be some who
are more conservative in their language usage. So what works for one
Korean may not always work with another.

My view on this is when in Rome, do as the Romans. When speaking Korean,
I try my best to conform to what a native speaker would expect and stick
to subject matter that is approrpriate to polite Korean, just to be on the
safe side. Then as I get to know the person, my Korean will loosen up.

M. Kim

[austin seo]

As would you do in english when meeting someone for the first time.
Better to be polite initially, I always say.

Michael Kim wrote:

> My view on this is when in Rome, do as the Romans. When speaking Korean,
> I try my best to conform to what a native speaker would expect and stick
> to subject matter that is approrpriate to polite Korean, just to be on the
> safe side. Then as I get to know the person, my Korean will loosen up.

--

[austin seo]

Talkyal wrote:

> As I fancy myself an armchair analyst of interracial relations
> between Koreans and Americans, it has been my observations
> that you can throw both of the above advices into the toilet, when
> it comes to Koreans trying to speak politely in English to Americans, and
> Americans trying to speak politely in Korean
> to Koreans: both of these situations often produce uncontrollable
> reactions in the communication process which makes Harvard
> Man and Austin Powers' suggestions, pointless.

Then that's a reflection of the speaker(s)...don't know what
uncontrollable reactions you're talking about though...farting?

It's easy to be polite in Korean using chon de mal. And frankly people
should be polite to strangers when addressing them irrespective of
language and apparent social status.

Funny thing is very few people realize that there are polite forms of
address when speaking to people in english. Hell, just speaking Korean
for a year really screwed up my english so that it's hard not to be
blunt...now I know why my parents always sounded pissed at me aside from
being pissed at me.

[Talkyal]

>From: austin seo <anon...@unixg.ubc.ca>

>As would you do in english when meeting someone for the first time.
>Better to be polite initially, I always say.

>Michael Kim wrote:
>
>> My view on this is when in Rome, do as the Romans. When speaking Korean,
>> I try my best to conform to what a native speaker would expect and stick
>> to subject matter that is approrpriate to polite Korean, just to be on the
>> safe side. Then as I get to know the person, my Korean will loosen up.

As I fancy myself an armchair analyst of interracial relations

between Koreans and Americans, it has been my observations
that you can throw both of the above advices into the toilet, when
it comes to Koreans trying to speak politely in English to Americans, and
Americans trying to speak politely in Korean
to Koreans: both of these situations often produce uncontrollable
reactions in the communication process which makes Harvard
Man and Austin Powers' suggestions, pointless.

EGG

[Michael Kim]

Talkyal (tal...@aol.com) wrote:
: As I fancy myself an armchair analyst of interracial relations

: between Koreans and Americans, it has been my observations
: that you can throw both of the above advices into the toilet, when
: it comes to Koreans trying to speak politely in English to Americans, and
: Americans trying to speak politely in Korean
: to Koreans: both of these situations often produce uncontrollable
: reactions in the communication process which makes Harvard
: Man and Austin Powers' suggestions, pointless.

: EGG
:

That's an interesting statement Mr. Egg. Why don't you illuminate us with
your understanding of proper Korean. If you are speaking it acurrately,
and you still have problems then perhaps you have a point.

I have several non-Korean friends who are fluent Korean speakers. They
don't seem to have the troubles that you have in communicating with
Koreans. Often, intermediate Korean speakers have a harder time than
beginners. Koreans are willing to tolerate a beginner's mistakes, but
when they start to approach fluency, they become more sensitive to how you
are using the language.

M. Kim

[Antti Leppanen]

Michael Kim <ki...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> My view on this is when in Rome, do as the Romans. When speaking Korean,
> I try my best to conform to what a native speaker would expect and stick
> to subject matter that is approrpriate to polite Korean, just to be on the
> safe side. Then as I get to know the person, my Korean will loosen up.

I'll add to what Michael wrote that in those rare instances when we
so-called westerners happen to speak Korean to each other (in the
company of Koreans for example) the Korean linguistic conventions
tend to be disregarded and it becomes something like "westernized"
Korean. Panmal is used right from the start without asking age or
anything else relative to native speakers. When speaking to fellow
(Korean) students there was some thinking to do for the appropriate
forms. That was not a problem with professors, but with them it was
interesting to notice what kind of language they spoke to me.

Antti

[Talkyal]

>From: austin seo <anon...@unixg.ubc.ca>

>Then that's a reflection of the speaker(s)...don't know what
>uncontrollable reactions you're talking about though...farting?

It might as well be farting.....it would hold the same level of interest.
What I was saying is that there seems to be more of an interest in the speaker
than the subject matter that is being spoken,
despite what level of the respective language is being spoken.

EGG

[Talkyal]

>From: ki...@fas.harvard.edu (Michael Kim)

>That's an interesting statement Mr. Egg. Why don't you illuminate us with
>your understanding of proper Korean. If you are speaking it acurrately,
>and you still have problems then perhaps you have a point.

My point is that no matter what level of the language you are speaking, if the
listener is more interested in judging you with
different factors other than the content of your language, it doesn't matter
what you say.

EGG

[Hyun Hee]

Jaghia wrote:

> Who says I was ahead? I don't consider flirtation a game of who is ahead and
> who is behind. And, yes, I am quiting my flirtation with Hati immediately.
>

Yes, better stop while you still look like a fool, instead of an asshole.

[Talkyal]

>From: Hyun Hee

>Jaghia wrote:
>
>> Who says I was ahead? I don't consider flirtation a game of who is ahead
>and
>> who is behind. And, yes, I am quiting my flirtation with Hati immediately.

>Yes, better stop while you still look like a fool, instead of an asshole.

Ooops, too late.

EGG

[Talkyal]

>From: Antti Leppanen <alep...@cc.helsinki.fi>

>I'll add to what Michael wrote that in those rare instances when we
>so-called westerners happen to speak Korean to each other (in the
>company of Koreans for example) the Korean linguistic conventions
>tend to be disregarded and it becomes something like "westernized"
>Korean. Panmal is used right from the start without asking age or
>anything else relative to native speakers. When speaking to fellow
>(Korean) students there was some thinking to do for the appropriate
>forms. That was not a problem with professors, but with them it was
>interesting to notice what kind of language they spoke to me.

But, I am interested in the reactions of the Koreans.
Were they "entertained and amused" by your Korean-speaking,
did they stop whatever they were doing just so they could
monitor, listen, observe, and criticize your Korean-speaking,
or were they more subtle and non-chalant about your
Korean-speaking, just noticing you were speaking Korean?

EGG