KOREAN LAST NAMES: SANGNOM-YANGBAN
SIN
VonChampaign) wrote:
>
>
>
> there are handful of true Koreann last names and namely they are:
> Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
>
> folks with these last names are high class whereas
> other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
> chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
> sung, suh, pang, ..etc are earthworm-kissing low classes.
(Ignorant remarks omitted)
> Folks with the first last-name group, yang ban-s, are naturally
> nicer, smarter, and more pleasent people while the second group,
> ssang-nome-dul, are ignorant, stiff-necked, pompus,
> pot-headed......<( you get the picture)
>
> I think those ssang-nome-dul should be rounded up and
> shipped away to..... U.S. to preserve the national identity in Korea.
>
>
> - Sue Me
>
>
> GVC/W. Permission of Dr. and Mrs. Rolland Seung
First of all, Gwan, I hope you weren't serious, but if you were
then to all the readers of this article, I would like to say that this
is a classic example of classism is Korean society. It is just wrong!
Next, opinions such as these are offensive to other Koreans and
they are embarassing to show to non-Koreans. Discrimination/prejudice
is usually rooted from uniformed/ignorant people like you, so
I suggest you don't throw rocks in a house made out of glass.
Besides, it is important to know about the roots of your name. Like
what kind of Kim it is and what kind of "P-ah" it is. The kind will
depend on your family ancestry and the "P-ah" will give the rank
of your original ancestor in medieval Korean government. The rank
will also specify what the extent of your ancestor's education was.
However, when you start pointing fingers at people calling them
what-have-you, then that action itself is contradictory to the actions
specified to be a yangban.
I have other important points to discuss but I'll end it here. MORE->
Nathan Choi
P.S. The name Choi in our family can be traced back to at least 35
generations
and it is - Su-Sung Chae-See (I hate how English manipulates
spelling of Korean
names) and the "P-ah" is Chan-Sung Gong P-ah.
Gwan VonChampaign
there are handful of true Koreann last names and namely they are:
Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
folks with these last names are high class whereas
other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
sung, suh, pang, ..etc are earthworm-kissing low classes.
i believe what separates the two groups
is their inherint genetic make up which can not
be nurtured to be worse or better.
Folks with the first last-name group, yang ban-s, are naturally
nicer, smarter, and more pleasent people while the second group,
ssang-nome-dul, are ignorant, stiff-necked, pompus,
pot-headed, morons who can't even tell whether yi is
same as lee or not. Even physically, ssang-nomes' are
uglier than yang ban. they are usually shorter, flatter-nosed,
thick-lipped, and dark. also, they are usually fat.
I think those ssang-nome-dul should be rounded up and
shipped away to ssang-nome-eui-na-ra (country of ssang-nome)
like U.S. to preserve the national identity in Korea.
I also hope everybody will love me since i am a yang ban
althoughh i am still very short because i am not a grown
up yet.
James Choi
SIN <st01...@oregon.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>First of all, Gwan, I hope you weren't serious, but if you were
>then to all the readers of this article, I would like to say that this
>is a classic example of classism is Korean society. It is just wrong!
One of the damages that Dwight Joe has done to SCK is that
people cannot tell what to take seriously anymore. The fact
that Dwight Joe was actually serious about what he wrote makes
us give a benefit of doubt that any other outrageous idea can
also be serious.
Thus, it made reduced the ground for sarcasm to work. Most common
way to indicate sarcasm is to exaggerate gradually until it becomes
so ridiculously incredible that the readers realize it was a
sarcasm. People like Dwight Joe wrote far-out stuff all the time,
so the threshold of sarcasm was driven way up high.
So, a totally ridiculous articles like the one posted by Prof. Gwan
is given a serious consideration and it even invites serious
responses.
Dear SCKers,
Dwight Joe is gone. It is sounds too far out to be true, then it
is far out. Shall we get back to our normal senses and let our
common sense guide us for a change?
Thank you very much.
James Choi
--
How smart she is! he thought. Simply by questioning him she forced
explanations. And who explained was already on the defensive.
From "Arch of Triumph"
Dal-Won Kang
: In article <2l8c10...@glass.crhc.uiuc.edu>, ch...@crhc.uiuc.edu (Gwan
: VonChampaign) wrote:
: > there are handful of true Koreann last names and namely they are:
: > Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
: >
: > folks with these last names are high class whereas
: > other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
: > chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
: > sung, suh, pang, ..etc are earthworm-kissing low classes.
: > Folks with the first last-name group, yang ban-s, are naturally
: > nicer, smarter, and more pleasent people while the second group,
: > ssang-nome-dul, are ignorant, stiff-necked, pompus,
: > pot-headed......<( you get the picture)
: >
: > I think those ssang-nome-dul should be rounded up and
: > shipped away to..... U.S. to preserve the national identity in Korea.
: First of all, Gwan, I hope you weren't serious, but if you were
: then to all the readers of this article, I would like to say that this
: is a classic example of classism is Korean society. It is just wrong!
Nathan, how can you even think of taking such crop as serious?
(especially when yang-ban list didn't list the true yang-ban name: Kang)
Seriously though, in the late 1900s, before Japanese occupied Korea, there
was a class revolution whereby merchant Ssang-nom class bought out good
names and became Yang-ban through sending their kids to suhdang (Yang-ban
school). Therefore, you really can't distinguish who has real yang-ban
ancestry and who doesn't.
Professor Ledyard @ Columbia U.
Darren
Nari Nancy Kwak
Dal-Won Kang <kang...@upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>Seriously though, in the late 1900s, before Japanese occupied Korea, there
>was a class revolution whereby merchant Ssang-nom class bought out good
>names and became Yang-ban through sending their kids to suhdang (Yang-ban
>school). Therefore, you really can't distinguish who has real yang-ban
>ancestry and who doesn't.
>
> Professor Ledyard @ Columbia U.
Wow, what a surprise to see my professor's name pop up. I'm taking
two of his classes this semester. In fact, what you just wrote is a
subject we covered last week in one of those classes.
He's quite entertaining and has some strongly pro-Korean ideas. You
should hear him ranking on the Japanese when he lectures on the
Japanese occupation period. His thorough knowledge of Korean history
inspired my deepest respect for me. He also has excellent
understanding of Chinese characters and his Korean handwriting is
better than most Koreans' that I know. He even has a dojang with his
name in Korean characters which he sometimes uses to sign documents.
His Korean pronunciation sometimes makes me giggle a little bit. I
heard Professor Carter Eckert of Harvard speaks Korean like a native
speaker.
Professor Ledyard has my deepest respects, although I figured he's a
technophobe from the conversations we had.
--
Nancy Na-Ri Kwak - kw...@columbia.edu
Byungtae Lee
>VonChampaign) wrote:
>
>First of all, Gwan, I hope you weren't serious, but if you were
>then to all the readers of this article, I would like to say that this
>is a classic example of classism is Korean society. It is just wrong!
>
>generations
> and it is - Su-Sung Chae-See (I hate how English manipulates
>spelling of Korean
> names) and the "P-ah" is Chan-Sung Gong P-ah.
First of all, Gwan is never serious for anything.
Your rebuttal will be the same one to DJ or Asano.
Next thing is that
No matter how proud you are of your family name, it is simply
non-sense. Nobody will verify your family tree. The mere fact that
Composition of yangban exploded just after Imjin Wae-Ran and during
Da-Won Kun's reign from less than 10% to 90% tells us that most of
"jok-bo" is simple fabrication.
I am still wondering what was Gwan's original intention to bring this
crap.
--
Byungtae Lee (byun...@emx.cc.utexas.edu or byun...@utxvm.bitnet)
Dept. of MSIS, CBA 5.202, Austin, TX78712-1175
Tel. 512)471-1671(O), 478-3779(H) Fax.471-0587
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
hayn park
>His Korean pronunciation sometimes makes me giggle a little bit. I
>heard Professor Carter Eckert of Harvard speaks Korean like a native
>speaker.
:) Almost. I thought it was pretty amazing. I also remember a Mexican
man who married a Korean; he speaks the language very well now.
I suppose I shouldn't think it's such a big deal; after all, it is *a*
language out of many, many on this planet. But then there is that bit of
pride when you find someone who is interested in our culture enough to
undertake the difficult task of learning the language.
>Nancy Na-Ri Kwak - kw...@columbia.edu
Hayn Park
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Knowing others is wisdom; The self? Enlightenment. | Hayn Park
Mastering others requires force; The self? Strength." | Physics
--(Lao Tzu: Tao Te Ching)-------------...@husc.harvard.edu--
Jonggu Moon
I thought it was obvious,
to disrupt the first attempt at a bosnian type cease fire on SCK
- jon
jonggu moon
SNAFU
Stephen Anthony Dunphy
I was interested in reading the roots of all these names, and I
was pondering my Mother's surname. I am a Korean/American, my
Mother was Korean and my father is Irish/Polish/American, but
my curiosity lies in her name...Obviously it is impossible to
ask someone to check on my entire ancestry, but any information
at all would be greatly appreciated. I know I have current
family in Korea in the way of cousins, aunts, uncles, possibly
a grandmother, but I will take on that search later in life.
Unfortunately, my Mother passed away a little over a year ago,
and all of her family history went with her. What curiosity I
have left will hopefully take me on some journey to find my
family in Korea...until then, it would just be nice to get one
foot in the door. My Mother's name is Sun Cha Yi: I am not
educated in any Korean culture nor semantics, but I think she
did say she was Yi Sun Cha, as the last name was first....or
something. Please excuse my apparent ignorance. She was born
outside of Seoul in 1941, though the exact date was not known,
either January 2 or some other date I cannot remember. This is
due to the idiotic customs people that had no respect for her
ethnicity (sorry for the commentary...) anyway, I would
appreciate any help with the tracing of her Name.
Ever Grateful,
Stephen Dunphy
sa...@curry.edschool.virginia.edu
Gwan VonChampaign
[del]
>First of all, Gwan, I hope you weren't serious, but if you were
>then to all the readers of this article, I would like to say that this
>is a classic example of classism is Korean society. It is just wrong!
>Next, opinions such as these are offensive to other Koreans and
>they are embarassing to show to non-Koreans. Discrimination/prejudice
>is usually rooted from uniformed/ignorant people like you, so
>I suggest you don't throw rocks in a house made out of glass.
For all I know, SueMe said that she
is Yang ban.
As for "choi", I know and I have PROVEN before
on the net that ALL "choi"s are ssang-nome-dul.
So, there is no relevance in asking which "pa"
I belong to.
Actually, my post was motivated by a discussion
couple of Korean folks were having while I was
visiting Chicago 4 weeks ago.
One of them asked me which "choi" I belong
to and asked whether I was yang ban or ssang nome.
I became somewhat upset by the question and
decided to relieve my stress by misquoting, yet
again, Dr. Rolland's daughter, SueMe, while
they are away from the net for the moment.
I also wanted to know if there are any more
folks out there taking this ssang-nome/yang-ban
business seriously.
Also, I don't see how HIDING the glass house
that we have from others (non-Koreans) will
help the situation.
I'd say throw the rock and screw it.
Gwan VonChampaign
Dwight-Asana professor of demented SEMENary
Paul S. Chyu
In article <2l8c10...@glass.crhc.uiuc.edu>, ch...@crhc.uiuc.edu (Gwan VonChampaign) writes:
>
>
>
> there are handful of true Koreann last names and namely they are:
> Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
>
> folks with these last names are high class whereas
> other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
> chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
> sung, suh, pang, ..etc are earthworm-kissing low classes.
>
Hey, I like this. By your statement, you are a qualified Sangnom just
like me.
> I think those ssang-nome-dul should be rounded up and
> shipped away to ssang-nome-eui-na-ra (country of ssang-nome)
> like U.S. to preserve the national identity in Korea.
It happened already, since you and me both are here in US already.
> I also hope everybody will love me since i am a yang ban
> althoughh i am still very short because i am not a grown
> up yet.
>
>
Since I am a ssang-nome, I do not love yangban.
> - Sue Me
What for?
>
>
> GVC/W. Permission of Dr. and Mrs. Rolland Seung
Permission revoked by SSSSSang-nome.
--
Paul S. Chyu
Phone: (512) 838-3296 TIE : 678-3296
FAX: (512) 838-5141 TIE : 678-5141
Tae Hoon Kim
Gwan VonChampaign <ch...@crhc.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> there are handful of true Koreann last names and namely they are:
> Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
>
> folks with these last names are high class whereas
> other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
> chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
I guess including yourself in this lower group is supposed to make this
generalization more true. NOT
> sung, suh, pang, ..etc are earthworm-kissing low classes.
>
> i believe what separates the two groups
> is their inherint genetic make up which can not
> be nurtured to be worse or better.
> Folks with the first last-name group, yang ban-s, are naturally
> nicer, smarter, and more pleasent people while the second group,
> ssang-nome-dul, are ignorant, stiff-necked, pompus,
> pot-headed, morons who can't even tell whether yi is
> same as lee or not. Even physically, ssang-nomes' are
> uglier than yang ban. they are usually shorter, flatter-nosed,
How ugly are you, Gwan? Self-degradation is allowed only to a certain extant.
I must stop you from doing this to yourself. Even if you are already married
and don't care how you look.
> thick-lipped, and dark. also, they are usually fat.
>
> I think those ssang-nome-dul should be rounded up and
> shipped away to ssang-nome-eui-na-ra (country of ssang-nome)
> like U.S. to preserve the national identity in Korea.
> I also hope everybody will love me since i am a yang ban
> althoughh i am still very short because i am not a grown
> up yet.
>
>
> - Sue Me
>
>
>GVC/W. Permission of Dr. and Mrs. Rolland Seung
Not so funny.
Classism is not that funny. There may be a possibility for anyone (including
myself) of experiencing this. For instance, you and your SO can't get your
or your SO's parents' permission for marriage because either you or your SO
is not from a good family (Ga-Moon). What the hell!!???
Jeong-Gyun Shin
>> Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
>>
>> folks with these last names are high class whereas
>> other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
>> chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
Folks, relax and go easy, easy. *Obviously* this person didn't know
what he was doing!! For example, ignoring distinctiveness of
Delaware Shin clan (versus the rest of Shin clan) is just another
recklessness this person has shown with the post above. A mortal
sin, yet I forgive for ignorance is to be tolerated (amen). |)
gumba
: Japanese occupation period. His thorough knowledge of Korean history
: inspired my deepest respect for me. He also has excellent
^^
nari, nari, nari...
what else inspire your deepest respect for you? :)
henry e chon, who just bought another meal ticket for nari.
gumba '95
Andrew Tack
: Not so funny.
I tought it was funny. :) Actually, I enjoy Gwan's posts.
(as long as it's not too long like over 2 screen full, then I start
skimming)
: Classism is not that funny. There may be a possibility for anyone (including
^^^^^^^^
Hey! Don't mock the Dewey Decimal System!
: myself) of experiencing this. For instance, you and your SO can't get your
: or your SO's parents' permission for marriage because either you or your SO
: is not from a good family (Ga-Moon). What the h*ll!!???
Hahahahahahaha. People still do that? That's even funnier than
Gwan's posts. I'd laugh if my SO's parents asked me to proof
my Yang Ban'ness by providing my Jok Bo (Family Tree Book), I'd just
laugh it off. Hahahahahaha. (Every one knows TACK is a YangBAN, right? :)
Seriously, I thought such thing only happens when you are Korean and
s/he's Japanese, or Chinese, or what not. And vice versa.
If that Ga-Moon thing still happens, I'll just "puhahahhahah" it off.
That's gotta be a joke!
--
Andrew BC Tack
EE major at University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Dal-Won Kang
: Wow, what a surprise to see my professor's name pop up. I'm taking
: two of his classes this semester. In fact, what you just wrote is a
: subject we covered last week in one of those classes.
Glad to see a Columbia student who is taking Ledyard's class.
: He's quite entertaining and has some strongly pro-Korean ideas. You
: should hear him ranking on the Japanese when he lectures on the
: Japanese occupation period. His thorough knowledge of Korean history
: inspired my deepest respect for me. He also has excellent
: understanding of Chinese characters and his Korean handwriting is
: better than most Koreans' that I know. He even has a dojang with his
: name in Korean characters which he sometimes uses to sign documents.
You should also check out his doctorial thesis on Korean language which I
dug up from U. of Penn. library. He did a thorough job.
: His Korean pronunciation sometimes makes me giggle a little bit. I
: heard Professor Carter Eckert of Harvard speaks Korean like a native
: speaker.
I agree his Korean pronunciation needs some work, although he should
be commended for the fluency he has achieved so far.
: Professor Ledyard has my deepest respects, although I figured he's a
: technophobe from the conversations we had.
I agree.
Darren Kang
P.s. Are you going to tell us what the meaning is behind your Korean name,
Na-Ri? That is an unusual name.
Albert Kang
> Ahn, Jung, Bark, Kim, Choe.
>
> folks with these last names are high class whereas
> other names like song, shin, lee, lim, koh, boo, yang, yi, park,
> chung, ma, chun, bang, jee, chook, joo, baik, won, choi
> sung, suh, pang, ..etc are earthworm-kissing low classes.
>
i have read the posts following this. so i realise that gwan was joking.
but still, i want to address this issue of where some of the korean last
names are from. e.g. the prevailing and the most common notion about
kim(there are different kim's though) is that it originated from king kim
of silla. this is wrong. in ancient korean history books, there are
mention of court officials or scholars with last names kim, joo, lee,
etc. those that scholars have thought, and most still do, originated from
china. the period of history i am talking about is before 1000 b.c.
during Han Oong and Go ChoSun(or Dan Goon) time. so the notion that many
of the korean last names came from the Han(chinese Han) people is "Sik
Min Sa Gwan". as to the post that described how there was a sudden
increase of yangbans, i agree that it was mainly due to political chaos,
riots and another important factor would be the "rise of the middle
class". there was a infamous riot by the No-Bis-bond servants-during the
end of the Yi dynasty in which they stormed the palace and burned
documents that bound them. before, they had "no" last names, but
afterwards with no records, they took on yang-ban names. so those of you
who pride yourself having a "true" yang-ban last name(park,lee,kim,etc)
should be little wary. these no-bis took on last names that most
symbolised yang-ban and these were the names mentioned above(maybe why so
many lees,kims, etc.?)
Albert Kang
Nari Nancy Kwak <kw...@namaste.cc.columbia.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Professor Ledyard @ Columbia U.
>
>Wow, what a surprise to see my professor's name pop up. I'm taking
>two of his classes this semester. In fact, what you just wrote is a
>subject we covered last week in one of those classes.
>
>He's quite entertaining and has some strongly pro-Korean ideas. You
>should hear him ranking on the Japanese when he lectures on the
>Japanese occupation period. His thorough knowledge of Korean history
>inspired my deepest respect for me. He also has excellent
>understanding of Chinese characters and his Korean handwriting is
>better than most Koreans' that I know. He even has a dojang with his
>name in Korean characters which he sometimes uses to sign documents.
>
>His Korean pronunciation sometimes makes me giggle a little bit. I
>heard Professor Carter Eckert of Harvard speaks Korean like a native
>speaker.
>
>Professor Ledyard has my deepest respects, although I figured he's a
>technophobe from the conversations we had.
>
>--
>Nancy Na-Ri Kwak - kw...@columbia.edu
i would like to sit in on one of his classes, sound interesting. maybe
when i conjure up enough desire to travel to the east coast.
not having taken ledyland's class, i don't want to second guess what he
teach, but my experience and the stuff that i have read about korean
history from western scholars is just rehashing of japanese studies.
japanese scholars' version of korean history is not only ignorantly wrong
but conspiratorily wrong. these form of "thought colonialism" also
extents to many of the korean scholars.
so what does ledyland teach in his class?
just a last note on korean characters. this was not made by sae-jong dae
wong. it was only modified from an earlier version of korean made in the
Han Ooong Si Dae which became almost extinct with korea's later adoption
of chinese characters. in 1918 the chinese government had a meeting of
chinese scholars and linguists to discuss the problem of the inability of
the current language to be acessible to all people(meaning too hard to
learn and inefficient in everyday language). they debated for a long
time and finally this foreign missionary(the lone foreigner) by the name
of Galle, suggested that they adopt the korean form of writing. they had
more debates and finally decided against it because it would be a
disgrace to use sych a weak country's language(so they settled with
abstracted form-those with chinese friends are familair with this)
the same thing happened in japan in 1868-not sure about the date-i guess due to westernisation,
the current language was insufficient.
maybe you can ask your professor about this?
Andrew Tack
: afterwards with no records, they took on yang-ban names. so those of you
: should be little wary.
If the jok-bo (family tree book) is not enough (i know you can just go
buy one), how about go-bo (family treasure)? That should be enough to
prove your yang-ban'ness if you REALLY wanted to. And there is a
family burial ground which also can back up your claim. For my family
we had family burial ground (San So) since about 10 generations ahead
of mine. So there! :P
: these no-bis took on last names that most
: symbolised yang-ban and these were the names mentioned above(maybe why so
: many lees,kims, etc.?)
And besides, who'd want to take a name like TACK? (not so popular)
So, all you lees, kims, chois, etc. Be wary of your yang-ban'ness.
Seriously, though, who CARES? I really don't care! Humans are
created EQUAL in God's eyes. Why this stupid non-sense about some
stupid feudal systematic classification? Who CARES?
This topic is nothing but a JOKE! That was Gwan's intention in the
first place to bring this up. What's up with you? Do you really
need to take Sarcasm & Humour 101 or something?
You people crack me up.
S. Hyun Yim
NAMES: SANG.. by Albert Ka...@violet.berke
> 1. e.g. the prevailing and the most common notion about
> of silla.
^^^^^^
> 3. in ancient korean history books, there are
> etc.
> during Han Oong and Go ChoSun(or Dan Goon) time.
> Min Sa Gwan".
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am at COMPLETE loss what you are trying to say. Are you saying THAT
Sik Min Sa-gwan is right?
I hope you will elaborate. But for now, I have to give some comments.
1. There are only two Korean surviving records that describes Ancient
CHoson in any significant detail. Hwandangogi written during Koryo
dynasty, and Tangigosa written in Parhae. Sik Min Sa-gwan historians
NEVER approved either of records. In fact, they graded down Ancient
CHoson to a tribal state that was founded around 3rd century BC,
ignoring all the Chinese records and archaeological discoverings.
So where are the ancient records approved by Sik Min Sa-gwan
historians that list the names of Ancient Choson era scholars?
2. The last names used in Koguryo and Paekche were very different from
Silla's last names. Apparently, Silla's unfication of peninsular
annihilated Koguryo and Silla's last names. And Silla's royal names like
Kim and Park came into dominance.
3. As time passed, yangbans copied Chinese last names. And the yangban
wannabe sangmins copied from yangbans.
> class". there was a infamous riot by the No-Bis-bond servants-during the
> end of the Yi dynasty in which they stormed the palace and burned
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> documents that bound them.
NO! It was shortly before Konishi and Kato's invasion force stormed
Seoul. (during Imjin Wae Ran) It was when Kyongbok Palace was burned
down. After the royal family returned to Seoul, they moved to smaller
Changdok Palace, and stayed there until Taewon-gun rebuilt Kyongbok
Palace in 19th century.
Imjin Wae Ran, in short, was the end of the stabilized and prosperous
era established by King Sejong, and the beginning of all the social
unstability.
Atila the Hyun
Albert Kang
Andrew Tack <at...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>On 10 Mar 1994 00:59:01 GMT, Albert Kang (mc19...@violet.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>If the jok-bo (family tree book) is not enough (i know you can just go
>buy one), how about go-bo (family treasure)? That should be enough to
>prove your yang-ban'ness if you REALLY wanted to. And there is a
>family burial ground which also can back up your claim. For my family
>we had family burial ground (San So) since about 10 generations ahead
>of mine. So there! :P
>
>And besides, who'd want to take a name like TACK? (not so popular)
>So, all you lees, kims, chois, etc. Be wary of your yang-ban'ness.
you are right there, not many people would want a name like TACK(y).
:)
>
>Seriously, though, who CARES? I really don't care! Humans are
>created EQUAL in God's eyes. Why this stupid non-sense about some
>stupid feudal systematic classification? Who CARES?
well it seems that you do not care too much and it really doesn't matter
whether you care not. "stupid non-sense about some stupid feudal
systematic classification" is probably because some people care about his
subject. why they care or do not care or why they should or should not
care is a different topic. it is a noble sentiment that you hold that
people are created in equal in God's eyes, but the reality is that people
are not equal in other people's eyes. and if you do truly believe in
this ideal, why start this post with the synopsis of your family history?
>This topic is nothing but a JOKE! That was Gwan's intention in the
>first place to bring this up. What's up with you? Do you really
>need to take Sarcasm & Humour 101 or something?
it was more of a sarcasm than a joke. there are subtle differences.
sorry to say my school doesn't offer Sarcasm $ Humour 101, the people
here expect that students will learn to be experts by the first few weeks
of school, walking the campus and being hassled and bombarded with all
forms of literary usages.
the root of the sarcasm goes back to the latin form "sarco", which meant
"to hit with words". the first usage of this word goes back to trajan's
time when xliopynzzy(probably a greek slave) wrote about the this
literary form in his treatises. in it he describes how sarco would not
be sarco without some hint of truth or popular or not so popular myth.
sarcasm would not be sarcasm if it doesnot contain some elements of
popular truth or ignorance or stereotype. xliopynzzy also described how
the contemporary writers of his time used, "twas sarco", to hide from
any critism from others. he argued that the writers who used sarco
should be ready to deal with others who take them seriously, or more
often, take the opposing view of what the writer was saying(i.e. gwan's
post was to make it seem like the heritage of last names should not mean
much, but some others would disagree). if the writers cannot take this
kind of scrutiny from the readers, they should not be writing sarco, or
else they are writing bad sarco. he emphasised that he is not against the
abolishment of bad sarco, but that the writers should be held accountable
for their bad sarco. he also argued that writing bad sarco doesnot
indicated any lack of morality but a lack of humor and intelligence(i
don't agree with him on this.) to summarise his arguments, he pointed
out that the best form of sarcasm was in which it made people think
whether it was sarcasm or not, and since some of the bad sarco(he
mentioned couple which i haven't written) do make people think AND ARGUE,
they are really good sarco.
to say my two cents worth, what is the point of sarcasm if not to rouse
up emotions and to make people think? and when people think, they
usually disagree.
what did they teach yopu in Sarco and Humour 101?
>You people crack me up.
>Andrew BC Tack
>EE major at University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
it is only my second day at posting and i have seemed to stirred up some
flame? i am sorry.
Albert Ji Kang
anthropology and MCB major at Berkeley
Nari Nancy Kwak
Dal-Won Kang <kang...@upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>P.s. Are you going to tell us what the meaning is behind your Korean name,
>Na-Ri? That is an unusual name.
Why, thankew very much.
It was given to me by my grandfather who was one of the pioneers to
start using purely Korean names. Nari is name of a flower in Korean.
Below are some more purely Korean names I know.
Goh Eun - This is my older cousin's name.
Dan Bee - Even though this girl's not very pretty, I'll admit
her name is.
Byungtae Lee
> Dan Bee - Even though this girl's not very pretty, I'll admit
> her name is.
How about my kid's name?
Da Som - its pure Korean archaic word meant "Love".
--
Byungtae Lee (byun...@emx.cc.utexas.edu or byun...@utxvm.bitnet)
Dong Sung Shin
>In article <st011445-0...@klamath-labs-mac34.uoregon.edu>,
>SIN <st01...@oregon.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> No matter how proud you are of your family name, it is simply
> non-sense. Nobody will verify your family tree. The mere fact that
> Composition of yangban exploded just after Imjin Wae-Ran and during
> Da-Won Kun's reign from less than 10% to 90% tells us that most of
> "jok-bo" is simple fabrication.
> I am still wondering what was Gwan's original intention to bring this
> crap.
I also do not comprehend his true intention in bringing up this
disturbing fact regarding the purity of family names in Korea.
What significant meaning does a family name have now in Korea where
all classes are merging ever so quickly? Does it really matter even
if you are the most filthiest, corrupted "mouse" nurturing his
supposedly rational mind in his dorm smoking pots? Will his highly
decorated deceased ancestors come to his rescue whenever he is in
a neurogenic shock, or coughing sputum?
At any rate, I congratulate him for being a part of one of the
oldest, "pure" families of Korea.
- SDS (Infantry Division 11B - Ranger)
Nari Nancy Kwak
western scholar, there are a number of students who seem disgruntled
that it's not taught by a native Korean.
One student claimed that the main reason such professors study eastern
culture is because they see our culture as exotic. It's not something
they would fully understand, therefore, how can they be effectively
teaching it? These students would rather have a native Korean who has
experienced what it feels like being a Korean.
Although I'm learning much from the class, I can't help but think, "Is
there something that I'm missing? Would I really be learning more if
the instructor were a native Korean?"
While my professor does not simply rehash Japanese interpretation of
Korean history(he's actually more biased toward the Korean view) and I
can see that he truly feels for the Korean cause, especially when he
lectures on the time period during the Japanese occupation, I can see
that it's all a matter of sympathy and not empathy.
I remember a thread a while back about Hwang's Sonagi and Professor
Stephen Epstein's interpretation of it. He was able to see much more
deeply into the story than the mere surface that most Koreans had been
seeing, and I was deeply impressed.
This gets me even more confused about my original question.
What do you folks think?
James Choi
> Dan Bee -
> Da Som -
> Na Ri -
> So Wi -
One thing you notice in pure Korean name is the lack of -ng ending
and -g ending. I am not sure if most Chinese characters have either
-g or -ng ending, but over 90% of us have either -ng or -g ending
in our name.
It makes the name sound unsmooth. Of course, you don't know that
because that's all you know. But when you hear all these pure
Korean names, suddenly you feel something is smooth for some reason.
Ladies and Gentlemen:
It is the missing -ing and -g that make it sound that way.
James HyuNG-joon Choi
--
"Two together can actually freeze to death."
"Not we."
"Naturally not," Ravic said and in the dark she did not see the
expression that crossed his face. "Not we." From Arch of Triumph
Dal-Won Kang
You (sa...@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
: To whomever has the Knowledge:
: I was interested in reading the roots of all these names, and I
: was pondering my Mother's surname. I am a Korean/American, my
| [ommited for brevity]
: foot in the door. My Mother's name is Sun Cha Yi: I am not
| [ommited again]
: outside of Seoul in 1941, though the exact date was not known,
: either January 2 or some other date I cannot remember. This is
I am not an expert on Korean names, but I believe there are very
few divergent Yi-ssi (meaning the whole Yi clan can be traced to a single
town). Therefore, it is easy to find the root of your family. Last royal
dynasty in Korea was Yi as well as many Korean historical figures.
The best means in my opinion to trace your mother's family root is to
find her birth certificate which is probably located in a city hall where
your father registered the marriage. That certificate probably has a
Korean document with an English translation. You can use that certificate
to write to Korean census office as all providences in Korea has an
office that keeps a good record of people born in its
specific jurisdiction. I hope you are successful and if you
have any questions please email me. I will try to asssist you as much as I
can.
Darren Kang
Dal-Won Kang
: [Nari] was given to me by my grandfather who was one of the pioneers to
: start using purely Korean names. Nari is name of a flower in Korean.
: Below are some more purely Korean names I know.
: Goh Eun - This is my older cousin's name.
: Dan Bee - Even though this girl's not very pretty, I'll admit
: her name is.
Now that I know, that is truly an awsome name.
I was thinking of switching my name from Dal-won to Won-dal after that
idot prince of Shilla, Ondaal. What do you think? Fits my IQ or what?
Darren Kang
Dal-Won Kang
: How about my kid's name?
: Da Som - its pure Korean archaic word meant "Love".
That is a beautiful name as well. Where can I dig up these names from?
Darren Kang
Dal-Won Kang
: One student claimed that the main reason such professors study eastern
: culture is because they see our culture as exotic. It's not something
: they would fully understand, therefore, how can they be effectively
: teaching it? These students would rather have a native Korean who has
: experienced what it feels like being a Korean.
According to Professor Ledyard, he learned Korean in the army during the
Korean war in anticipation of using it for the war. However, the truce ended
the battle before he had any chance to use it. Ledyard then decided to use
his newly learned skill in studying more about the subject.
: Although I'm learning much from the class, I can't help but think, "Is
: there something that I'm missing? Would I really be learning more if
: the instructor were a native Korean?"
Maybe. However, there are many professors who teach Korean history in
Korea. I always appreciated Ledyard's almost objective (not pro-South, nor
pro-North) views points in analysing Korean history. I am not sure a South
Korean scholar would offer the accounts of history in that objective manner.
I am all for more study of Korean history by non-Koreans. That is one way
we will all become familiar with each other and begin to understand one
another as well.
Darren Kang
James Choi
Dal-Won Kang <kang...@upenn.edu> wrote:
>I was thinking of switching my name from Dal-won to Won-dal after that
>idot prince of Shilla, Ondaal. What do you think? Fits my IQ or what?
How about Geon-dal (Gun-dal)?
But do it quick before Uncle Vito gets you!
James Choi
S. Hyun Yim
Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.korean: 10-Mar-94 western scholars of
Korean .. by Nari Nancy Kwak@namaste.
> While I'm greatly enjoying my two Korean history courses taught by a
> western scholar, there are a number of students who seem disgruntled
> that it's not taught by a native Korean.
My opinion: Those student's opinion is rediculous
>
> One student claimed that the main reason such professors study eastern
> culture is because they see our culture as exotic. It's not something
> they would fully understand, therefore, how can they be effectively
> teaching it? These students would rather have a native Korean who has
> experienced what it feels like being a Korean.
First, there are problems in the notion that a native Korean must know
about Korean culture better.
1. Just because you lived in Korea for all of your life doesn't mean you
saw all of Korea. You could have lived in an apartment in Seoul for
decades, or in an island, etc. The notion you can understand everything
about five millenia old country just because you were born there is a
pure arrogancy.
2. Without experience with other culture, it's very easy to grow false
conception about your culture. You might think something about you
culture is unique, and it might be not. And the inverse may be true.
(You think something in your culture is universal but it might be not.)
In short, without extensive experiences with other culture, you cannot
view your culture objectively. The western scholars definitely have an
edge on this case.
>
> Although I'm learning much from the class, I can't help but think, "Is
> there something that I'm missing? Would I really be learning more if
> the instructor were a native Korean?"
May be, but in same time, you teachers may teach you stuffs a native
Korean may neglect or overlook.
>
> While my professor does not simply rehash Japanese interpretation of
> Korean history(he's actually more biased toward the Korean view) and I
> can see that he truly feels for the Korean cause, especially when he
> lectures on the time period during the Japanese occupation, I can see
> that it's all a matter of sympathy and not empathy.
>
> I remember a thread a while back about Hwang's Sonagi and Professor
> Stephen Epstein's interpretation of it. He was able to see much more
> deeply into the story than the mere surface that most Koreans had been
> seeing, and I was deeply impressed.
That's one of my point. An western scholar may be able to see the things
in different angle and from different experiences.
Do you know the saying in Korea "everyone becomes a patriot when s/he is
located abroad"? Though it might not be wholy true, I came to understand
why someone said this. When you go abroad, the name Korea, motherland,
etc have a whole different meanings. I came to understand what Korea
meant to me, what Korea meant to world, etc, only after I came to the
US.
A different perspective can lead to a deeper understanding.
>
> This gets me even more confused about my original question.
>
> What do you folks think?
A teacher is not there to teach you absolute and complete truths. It's a
student's responsibility to learn the subjects of diverse intersts and
subjects, and form his/her own opinions.
S. Hyun Yim
Byungtae L...@emx.cc.utex
> Nari Nancy Kwak <kw...@namaste.cc.columbia.edu> wrote:
> > Goh Eun - This is my older cousin's name.
> > Dan Bee - Even though this girl's not very pretty, I'll admit
> > her name is.
>
> How about my kid's name?
>
> Da Som - its pure Korean archaic word meant "Love".
>
Well here I go again:
the non-compound words that are two syllables or less, and are good for names
(^) in old Korean
(*) have seen actual people named so
(**) have seen fictional figure named so
(***) have seen person who intended to name his child with that
Aram(*) not quite sure how to translate this
Ari beauty
Bada(**) ocean
Baram(**) wind
Buh-gum supreme
Bora(**) purple
Boram(*)(**) pleasance of achieveness
Buru(^)(**) white
Dasom(*) thanks for Mr. Lee for this entry
Gaul autumn
Haje(^) future
Hana(*) one
Hanul(*) sky
Isak(**) glennings
Isul(**) dew
Maepsi (smart) appearance
Makal(^) north
Maro(^) king
Maru(**) peak
Moro(^) halo
Narae(**) wing
Nari(*) lily (you know this one :)
Nuri(**) world
Saem(**) fountain
Saera(^) river
Sol(**)(***) pine
Solgae(**) falcon
Songi(*) one flower
Sora(*) seashell
Of course, this list would at least quadraple if you begin to add
adjectives like Sae- Han- Dan- etc. and use adjectives (such as Go-un)
and suffixes, allow the words with three sylables or more (such as
Boramae), etc etc.
My brother knew a kid named Purun-nara in his class. His sister's name
was Hayan-nara.
You might wonder why I don't write more about this subject. But I gotta
go to class now. May be later.
Atila the Hyun
BTW, for those of you wondering, I am planning to change my given name
to Isak, but with the aleternative spelling of Esak since people would
mispronounce Isak. About the surname I am still thinking.
Edward So
|> Saera(^) river
Hey, that's good know! My daughter's name is, you guessed it, Sarah.
It's a common pretty name, easy to say, easy to write in Korean, etc, etc.
We initially didn't intend to use any Chinese characters, but we were asked
about it so often by Koreans that her grandpa picked a couple of nice Hanja
for her. Great!
--
Edward So
ed...@watson.ibm.com
U55...@uicvm.uic.edu
Choi) says:
>
>One thing you notice in pure Korean name is the lack of -ng ending
>and -g ending. I am not sure if most Chinese characters have either
>-g or -ng ending, but over 90% of us have either -ng or -g ending
>in our name.
So which one is it? That majority have names ending in -ng and -g or
that over 90% have neither -ng nor -g in their names?
So confused,
Glenda
>
James Choi
>So which one is it? That majority have names ending in -ng and -g or
>that over 90% have neither -ng nor -g in their names?
Vast majority of Korean names will have at least one of the following
endings.
1. -g (often written as -k)
2. -ng
Often a name can have both (Korean names are two syllables most of
the time.)
James Choi
Gwan VonChampaign
How about this girl's name:
Mi: pretty
Ryun: flower.
Mi Ryun.
gwan
Tae Hoon Kim
James Choi <pha...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <94071.080...@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U55...@uicvm.uic.edu> wrote:
>>So which one is it? That majority have names ending in -ng and -g or
>>that over 90% have neither -ng nor -g in their names?
>
>Vast majority of Korean names will have at least one of the following
>endings.
>
>1. -g (often written as -k)
I might lose face by stating a generalization about this. What I noticed when
I was trying to learn Mandarin was this: Mandarin seems to have limited ending
consonents. Mandarin (like Japanese) have -n, -ng endings, but
not harsh consonent endings as in Korean.
I know somebody will cite an exception to my cursory survey of Mandarin
pronunication. But, I will say that there is no -g ending in Mandarin.
So, I think this -g ending is purely Korean phenonmenon. And other harsh
consonent endings as well.
>2. -ng
>
>Often a name can have both (Korean names are two syllables most of
>the time.)
>
>James Choi
I am confused. James, were you trying to say in the previous post that
these two endings are not pure Korean?
James Choi
>I am confused. James, were you trying to say in the previous post that
>these two endings are not pure Korean?
Pure Korean names that I have seen avoid -g and -ng endings for some
reason. It is not a way to classify the names, but it seems to be
the tendency. Pure Korean names tend to not have any ending sound
(ending in vowel) or at the most have -n ending.
It gives the smootheness and the charm to the name. I personally
like
Yu-ri
Yu-ra
Once again, no -g or -ng endings there.
S. Hyun Yim
names by Tae Hoon K...@reed.edu
> consonent endings as well.
This -g ending is not found in Mandarin, but very common in Cantonese
and Fukiennese.
As someone mentioned a long time ago, Hanja didn't originated from
Mandarin, but more classical dialects like Fukiennese.
Andrew Tack
: This -g ending is not found in Mandarin, but very common in Cantonese
: and Fukiennese.
^^^^^^^^^^
sorry. I just had to ask. Not used to seeing this guy posting
non-serious article. Is he trying to be funny.
Once you think of someone as a very serious poster, you tend to think
and re-think when they post non-serious stuffs.
--
Tae Hoon Kim
Are joking or being serious, andrew?
I thought Mr Yim was being serious.
Michael L. Le Houllier
>While I'm greatly enjoying my two Korean history courses taught by a
>western scholar, there are a number of students who seem disgruntled
>that it's not taught by a native Korean.
I have never had a course in Korean history solely because my school
doesn't offer one, but I have had a course on Japanese history taught by a
Chinese and Chinese history taught by a Malaysian.
>
>One student claimed that the main reason such professors study eastern
>culture is because they see our culture as exotic. It's not something
>they would fully understand, therefore, how can they be effectively
>teaching it? These students would rather have a native Korean who has
>experienced what it feels like being a Korean.
On what basis can something be fully understood. Upon initial exposure to
a foreign culture, perhaps it could be considered exotic. I never even
MET an Asian person until I was in high school, so in that sence perhaps
it was something 'exotic' to me at the time because of my lack of exposure
to the various cultures of Asia. However, as I have come to be more
exposed to these various cultures, it ceases to be 'exotic'. I am
attracted to many of acpects of the various Asian societies, history,
culture, etc. I try to understand them to the best of my ability, but
saying that I can never comprehend ones history because I am not 'Asian'
is incorrect in my view. Using the same arguement, one could say that
Asian's couldn't understand Western history, yet a Chinese historian has a
firmer grasp of Western History that I will ever have because I don't
study it. My Vietnamese girlfriend will be asking me for help in her East
Asia history class this coming quarter.
>
>Although I'm learning much from the class, I can't help but think, "Is
>there something that I'm missing? Would I really be learning more if
>the instructor were a native Korean?"
Perhaps you are getting something different because you are taking it from
a non-Korean. I think both perspectives are valuable. I took a Japanese
history class in Japan, and there was so much they didn't teach or taught
differently than the class I took from a Chinese prof here in the States.
>
>While my professor does not simply rehash Japanese interpretation of
>Korean history(he's actually more biased toward the Korean view) and I
>can see that he truly feels for the Korean cause, especially when he
>lectures on the time period during the Japanese occupation, I can see
>that it's all a matter of sympathy and not empathy.
I suppose it depends upon his backgroung. Being a Quebecois, and a
nationalist one at that, I can TOTALLY emphasise with the Korean situation
vis a vis the Japanese. Although my people aren't being plundered
NEARLY to the extent the Koreans were, there is something to be said
about peoples who have been ruled by foreign powers.
> >I
remember a thread a while back about Hwang's Sonagi and Professor
>Stephen Epstein's interpretation of it. He was able to see much more
>deeply into the story than the mere surface that most Koreans had been
>seeing, and I was deeply impressed.
>
>This gets me even more confused about my original question.
>
>What do you folks think?
Well, I think I've said my feelings *smile*
>
>--
>Nancy Na-Ri Kwak - kw...@columbia.edu
Michael
--
Michael Le Houllier * John 3:16 * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili
(m_le...@oz.plymouth.edu.us) * Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
CANADIENS - Stanley Cup Champions * Alain Prost - World Driving Champ
BLUE JAYS - World Series Champions - BACK TO BACK!!!!!
Andrew Tack
: Are joking or being serious, andrew?
The tone was pretty serious, I think. I was serious.
: I thought Mr Yim was being serious.
Oh, Okie. But I'd rather from him.
Besides, what is Fukieneses? That word made me think ambiguous.
Gwan VonChampaign
[del]
>Besides, what is Fukieneses? That word made me think ambiguous.
I think I saw a Fukian or two in Small World (Disney World).
Of course my memory may be proving things again..
Gwan VonChampaign