WWII realiity -rumors and smoke screens -1 It's the Nazis! It's the Nazis!
jackeroo
First let me asure you it's the Mason's? If they say any different the are
rightwing twits pointing you to rightwing sites.
Rightwing sites say unbelievable things like 'The Jews are running the
world' this is not true, they might look rich, but they are only the paid
lackeys of the masons?
What is wrong with the above?
(Joe Kennedy) The American Secretary of State, James Forrestal, who later
died in mysterious circumstances, wrote in his Forrestal Diaries (Cassel and
Co., London 1952):
'Have played golf with Joe Kennedy [US Ambassador in Britain, father of
President John Kennedy]. According to him, Chamberlain declared that Zionism
and world Jewry have obliged England to enter the war.'
http://www.heretical.com/mkilliam/wwii.html
Maybe the zionists are running the world?
Hmmmm is he saying the Jews could actually make England put in the Prime
Minister they wanted with the views they wanted?
Just Before WW2 - the Jewish statistics for Germany, communist domination
and churchill
http://biblebelievers.org.au/witness1.htm
WW2
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html
conditions after the war
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/truman_on_harrison.html
The Real Cause of WW1
http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm
.....of Austria was assassinated by a Serbian student, Gavrilo Princip,
while visiting ...
.... for treason and jailed, only to be pardoned by fellow Freemason
WWII - CHURCHILL AND RUSSIA
"It may well be that this same astounding race may at the present time be in
the actual process of providing another system of morals and philosophy, as
malevolent as Christianity was benevolent, which if not arrested, would
shatter irretrievably all that Christianity has rendered possible. . . this
movement among the Jews is not new. . . it has been the mainspring of every
subversive movement during the nineteenth century; and now at last this band
of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of
Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their
heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous
empire." (Winston Churchill. Illustrated Sunday Herald. Feb. 8th, 1920)
http://biblebelievers.org.au/witness1.htm
Churchill?
In the front line against the Bolshevik explosion stood defeated Germany,
out of which maelstrom emerged Adolf Hitler, a highly decorated soldier of
the front lines. Aware of the appalling consequences should the
revolutionary communists overthrow Germany, he organised against it and
addressed his first public meeting in October, 1919, at Munich's
Hofbrauhaus.
Of him, Winston Churchill had this to say. "While all those formidable
transformations were occurring in Europe, Corporal Hitler was fighting his
long, wearing battle for the German heart. The story of that struggle cannot
be read without admiration for the courage, the perseverance, and the vital
force which enabled him to challenge, defy, conciliate, or overcome, all the
authorities or resistance's which barred his path. He, and the ever
increasing legions who worked with him, certainly showed at this time, in
their patriotic ardour and love of country, that there was nothing that they
would not dare, no sacrifice of life, limb or liberty that they would not
make themselves or inflict upon their opponents." (Winston Churchill.
Francis Nielson. ('Makers of War' p.101)
WELL WELL WELL, sounds a bit pro Hitler and anti Jewish here?
Rightwingers claim he received the golden handshake from the Jews which
completely changed his mind about such things? But who can believe
rightwingers????
BadPony
on the scale of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
At the height of the rightwing McCarthy "Witch hunts" how
many US citizens were executed for being Communist??
Compare that with Stalin mass murdering 7 million
Ukranians by enforced starvation. Get real.
Riain Y. Barton
the left.
Stalin became a dictator thus communism stopped being the political system
under Stalin and those who followed him. Russia was never under a true
communist government.
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BadPony
WORKERS Party? Are you mad? The Nazis were leftwing extremists.
ColdStorage
> Since when was socialist leftwing?? As in National SOCIALIST German
> WORKERS Party? Are you mad? The Nazis were leftwing extremists.
Bush is a Bolshevik, almost identical to Lenin.
Look at the people, look at their propaganda, same thing!
Just a bunch of dressed up Zionists.
Lenin made anti-Semitic jokes a capital offence (long before the holocaust),
Bush is next.
Wait for the GULAGs!
BadPony
ColdStorage wrote:
> "BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:PcGdnbf3DMu...@comcast.com...
>
>>Since when was socialist leftwing?? As in National SOCIALIST German
>>WORKERS Party? Are you mad? The Nazis were leftwing extremists.
>
>
> Bush is a Bolshevik, almost identical to Lenin.
That must be why he is supported by the Dems and Labour unions...
What are you, another barking lunatic Troll?
ColdStorage
Political platform is irrelevant, it is the actions that count.
A shit is still a shit no mater the gift paper it is wrapped in.
Riain Y. Barton
were anything but democratic!!!
The title is just a title! The manifesto is what you have to look at!
Take a political science course if you ever make to university.
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Riain Y. Barton
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Riain Y. Barton
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BadPony
Learn some history if YOU ever make it to university.
Hitler was voted in by a democratic vote. Was Stalin or Lenin?
Riain Y. Barton
But you obviously have not a fucking clue about NAZISM and right-wing
politics!!
I have a degree, thanks -- In Jewish Studies, guess I don't know anything
about NAZIS!
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BadPony
Perhaps you can answer my questions:
How Jewish people were prosecuted for War Crimes after WWII
in that they collaborated with the Nazis? Did the Mossad or
whatever actively pursue them as they did Eichmann?
Do you think there was a Katyn Forest factor to all the
Holocaust deaths as reported by the Soviets during and
after WWII??
BadPony
Riain Y. Barton
ABRAHAM ASSCHER
As co-chairman of the Dutch Jewish Council, Asscher tried to save Jews
from being deported. Despite his denunciations of the Nazi regime, he was
granted certain favors by the Nazis. He survived Bergen-Belsen and was later
accused, by both the Dutch and the Jews, of collaboration. He was found
guilty by a Jewish tribunal and barred from Jewish public life.
EFRAIM BARASZ
Chairman of the Bialystok ghetto Judenrat, Barasz was aware of the
murderous aims of the deportations but believed that ghetto work would
"serve as a protective shield" and save lives. He helped round up about
10,000 Jews for deportation, but also provided arms to the underground. He
was deported to Poniatowa camp and killed.
ANDRE BAUR
Vice president of the Union Generale Des Israelites Des France,
(UGIF) Baur sought to aid Jews in occupied France, while abiding by strictly
legal methods. Baur refused to comply with Alois Brunner's scheme in which
the UGIF would encourage Jews to join their families in Drancy. As a result
he was sent to Drancy and from there to Auschwitz.
MAREK BIBERSTEIN
As chairman of the Judenrat (Jewish Council) in Krakow,
Biberstein organized aid to the needy and intervened on behalf of Jews who
had been seized by the Germans. Arrested on a charge of foreign-currency
violations, he was kept in prison until the end of 1942. He returned to
Krakow, ill and broken, and was taken to Plaszow camp where he perished.
DAVID COHEN
Co-chairman of the Dutch Jewish Council, Cohen's policy of
cooperation with the Germans was attacked by other council members and by
the government-in-exile. After the war, having survived Theresienstadt, he
was accused of collaboration with the enemy by both the Dutch government and
the Jewish community. He was barred from Jewish public life.
ADAM CZERNIAKOW
Head of the Warsaw Judenrat, (Jewish Council), Czerniakow tried
to prevent direct German intervention into ghetto affairs, and to influence
Nazi authorities on behalf of ghetto Jews. On July 23, 1943, rather than
comply with Nazi orders to round up 3,000 Jews for deportation, he committed
suicide.
JACOB EDELSTEIN
Edelstein was a Czech Zionist leader who was sent to
Theresienstadt in Dec. 1943 and became head of the Jewish Council. He
organized educational programs for ghetto inmates, sought ways to increase
Jewish emigration and defended Jewish interests. Charged with falsifying
deportation figures, he was sent to Theresienstadt with his family and shot.
ELCHANAN ELKES
Elkes was a physician and chairman of the Council of Elders in
the Kovno Ghetto. Witnesses have attested to his devotion to fellow Jews and
to his courage in dealing with the Nazis. A staunch supporter of the
Resistance, Elkes risked his life to plead with the commandant that the
ghetto be spared. He died of ill health, after the ghetto was evacuated.
PAUL EPPSTEIN
Born in Germany, Eppstein was sent to Theresienstadt in 1943 and
was appointed chairman of the Judenrat. He has been criticized for
submitting to Nazi demands and alienating fellow Jews, but has also been
praised as a staunch spokesman for the Jews. Imprisoned in the summer of
1944, he was executed shortly afterwards.
WILHELM FILDERMAN
Throughout the war, as head of the Union of Romanian Jews,
Filderman maintained contacts with Iron Guard leaders in order to help the
Jews. He helped foil plans to deport all Romania's Jews to death camps in
Poland, helped avert the yellow badge decree, and sent aid to Jews deported
to Transnistria. He moved to France in 1948.
FULOP FREUDIGER
A Hungarian Jewish leader, Freudiger was appointed to the Central
Jewish Council of Budapest, after the German occupation of Hungary. Aided by
Rabbi Michael Weissmandel, he made contact with Nazi official Dieter
Wisliceny, whom he bribed to rescue eighty rabbis. He escaped to Romania and
later settled in Israel.
JACOB GENS
Head of the Vilna Ghetto Jewish Council, Gens promoted the idea
that ghetto Jews would survive if they provided labor for the Germans. In
his most controversial act, he turned over to the Germans four hundred and
six old or ill Jews, rather than allow fifteen hundred Jewish children to be
deported. The Gestapo shot him before the ghetto was destroyed.
ZVI KORETZ
Chief Rabbi of Salonika, Koretz was imprisoned in Dec. 1941, for
anti-German propaganda. In Dec. 1942 , the Germans made him president of the
Salonika Jewish community. He presided efficiently, and perhaps naively,
over the deportations in March and April of 1943. He was deported to
Bergen-Belsen where he died of typhus.
RAYMOND-RAOUL LAMBERT
Chief of the General Union of Jews in France during the Vichy
regime, Lambert contacted various underground groups to help Jews avoid Nazi
persecution. After he protested to Prime Minister Laval against Nazi
excesses, he and his family were deported to Auschwitz, where they were
killed.
JOSEF LOWENHERZ
A Zionist activist, Lowenherz became head of the Vienna Jewish
community during Nazi occupation. From 1938-40, he worked to increase Jewish
emigration. With the start of deportations, he was forced to provide names
to fill the deportation quota demanded by the Nazis. After the war, he was
interrogated by American military forces, and released.
MOSHE MERIN
As chairman of the Jewish Council, in Eastern Upper Selesia,
Merin enforced German demands for Jewish forced labor and adopted a policy
of sacrificing one part of the community for another. In constant conflict
with the Jewish underground, he denounced two of its activists and an
underground group to the Nazis. He died in Auschwitz.
ELIYAHU MUSHKIN
Chairman of the Minsk Judenrat (Jewish Council), Mushkin was a
staunch supporter of the Minsk ghetto underground groups and the local
partisans. He carried out their decisions, warned them of danger, provided
them with equipment and aided escaping Jews. In Feb. 1942, Mushkin was
arrested, tortured, and a month later, he was hanged.
MORDECHAI CHAIM RUMKOWSKI
As the head of the Lodz Ghetto Judenrat, (Jewish Council),
Rumkowski believed that some ghetto Jews would survive the war if they
worked for the Germans. Due to his active role in the deportations and his
iron rule, Rumkowski's behavior remains is a topic of bitter debate.
HEINRICH STAHL
President of the Berlin Jewish community under the Nazis, Stahl
helped found the Reich Representation of German Jews. He clashed with Jewish
leaders, Baeck and Hirsh, when he sought a greater role in the organization
for Berlin Jews. He was deported to Theresienstadt, where he was a member of
the Judenrat before his death.
SAMU STERN
A Hungarian Jewish community leader, Stern was highly patriotic
and anti-Zionist. He was head of the Kozponti Asido Tanacs Judenrat, (Jewish
Council) from the time of the German occupation of Hungary until he went
into hiding in Oct. 1944. Stern was legalistic and formal in his contacts
with Nazis and their Hungarian accomplices.
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prosecuted after the war for war crimes and hunted down
like Eichmann? Barred from Jewish public life??
How many Jews were executed for War Crimes they commited with
the Nazis after the war??
Riain Y. Barton
After World War II, centers, commissions and offices were established
in certain countries to help bring Nazi criminals to justice. They collect
information on Nazi criminals, investigate crimes, submit names of Nazi
criminals to their respective governments or take action against Nazi
criminals living in their countries.
Investigating Nazi Crimes
(official name, Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen zur
Aufklarung von NS - Verbrechen Ludwigsburg, or Central Office of the
Judicial Administrations of the Lander for Investigation of Nazi Crimes,
Ludwigsburg; the Lander are the eleven states that make up the Federal
Republic of Germany). Established on December 1, 1958, at Ludwigsburg, near
Stuttgart, the Zentrale Stelle was given the task of investigating Nazi
crimes in the period from 1933 to 1945 that were based exclusively or
primarily on Nazi ideology and were punishable under existing legislation of
the Federal Republic. The legal basis of the Zentrale Stelle's establishment
was an agreement reached by the ministers and senators of justice of the
several states; the office is staffed by prosecuting attorneys and judges.
Expansion.
At its inception, the Zentrale Stelle Ludwigsburg dealt only with
crimes committed outside the present border of the Federal Republic. In 1964
the Zentrale Stelle's authority was extended to include all Nazi crimes,
irrespective of the scene of the crime. It is not, however, authorized to
deal with war crimes in the narrow sense of the term, that is, crimes
committed in the course of the fighting that have no clear link to Nazi
ideology. The task with which it was charged by the judicial administrations
is to collect all available information and evidence on Nazi crimes, sort
out the crimes, classify them into various categories, and establish the
whereabouts of the criminals. Once a Nazi criminal's presence in the Federal
Republic is established by the Zentrale Stelle, its task is to pass the case
on to public prosecutors in the respective area for further action under the
law.
Achievements.
By the end of 1985 the Zentrale Stelle had initiated more than twelve
thousand cases for prosecution by the various public prosecution offices. In
addition, the office coordinates the work of the public prosecutors in this
field and in related judicial proceedings. To enable the Zentrale Stelle to
carry out this coordination, the public prosecution offices forward to it
all relevant material (such as protocols of court proceedings and other
documents); the Zentrale Stelle in turn enters this material and information
into a central card index and registry, which it puts at the disposal of all
the public prosecutors and authorized investigative bodies.
The premier Research Body in Poland
(Glowna Komisja Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce). Created on
March 29, 1945 under the minister of justice, the commission's aims are to
investigate Nazi crimes committed in Poland or against Polish citizens;
provide assistance to tribunals and bodies dealing with the pursuit of Nazis
in other countries; and to research and collect documentation about the
occupation period. In 1948, the Institute of National Remembrance was
established as part of the commission. By 1989 382 volumes of its bulletins
and books had been published.
Investigations and Complaints.
Office of Special Investigation (OSI), an agency established in the
United States Department of Justice to investigate and take legal action
against Nazi war criminals living in the United States. The OSI was founded
in 1979 following revelations that hundreds of Nazi war criminals had
emigrated to the United States after World War II. According to American
law, United States courts do not have jurisdiction to try individuals for
crimes committed outside the United States unless they were committed
against American citizens. Therefore the OSI prosecuted Nazi war criminals
for violating United States immigration and naturalization laws, which
forbade the entry into the United States and the subsequent naturalization
of anyone who had participated in the persecution of civilians during World
War II. Such criminals obtained entry into the United States by concealing
and misrepresenting their wartime activities, violations that are grounds
for denaturalization and deportation.
During the initial nine years of its existence, the OSI investigated
hundreds of cases and filed complaints against seventy - three Nazi war
criminals. The overwhelming majority of the cases investigated involved
Lithuanian, Latvian, Ukrainian, or Volksdeutsche collaborators. The
criminals can be classified, in accordance with their crimes, into the
following categories: Top - level decision makers; individuals who directed
the apparatus of mass annihilation; members of local police involved in
persecution; members of the local administration established by the Nazis
who assisted in the implementation of the "Final Solution"; persons involved
in propaganda and incitement to kill Jews; German scientists who employed
concentration camp inmates as slave labor in special projects related to the
war effort. In addition, the OSI conducted two special investigations at the
request of the United States government. The first concerned Klaus Barbie
(see Barbie Trial); the second Dr. Josef Mengele.
Findings about Collaboration.
In the course of its work, the OSI has conducted extensive research on
the fascist movements in eastern Europe and the extensive role played by
local collaborators in the murder of the Jews of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia,
the Ukraine, Belorussia, and elsewhere. The findings of OSI historians in
this area of Holocaust research constitute an important contribution to the
historiography of the destruction of European Jewry.
Opposition to OSI.
The OSI has been severely attacked by eastern European emigre groups
in the United States, who object to the use of evidence from Soviet archives
and claim that the individuals under investigation were framed by the KGB
because they were anti - Com - munist. These protests have also taken the
form of attempts to expunge all mention of the active role played by eastern
Europeans in the Holocaust.
Achievements.
By December 1986, sixteen Nazi war criminals investigated by the OSI
had been forced to leave the United States. Among the most important cases
are the following: Andrije Artukovic, minister of the interior of Croatia;
Feodor Federenko, Ukrainian guard at the Treblinka extermination camp; John
Iwan Demjanjuk, Ukrainian operator of the gas chambers at Treblinka;
Valerian Trifa, leader of Iron Guard (Romanian fascist) students; and Arthur
Rudolph, Nazi rocket scientist, involved in use of inmates at the Dora -
Mittelbau camp. In two additional cases, those of Alfred Deutscher and
Michael Popczuk, both participants in persecutions in the Ukraine, the
criminals committed suicide immediately after the OSI filed charges.
SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER
Established in 1977, in Los Angeles by Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Simon
Wiesenthal Center was named in honor of Nazi-hunter, Simon Wiesenthal. It
played a key role in the uncovering of Nazis and Nazi collaborators. In the
1990s,it emerged as a leading Jewish Human Rights agency, with some 400,000
members worldwide
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Trial held in the Jerusalem District Court; the second trial in Israel in
which the death penalty was imposed under the Nazis and Nazi Collaborators
(Punishment) Law (the first was the EICHMANN TRIAL).
In 1975 information reached the United States Department of Justice that
John Iwan Demjanjuk, a resident of Cleveland, Ohio, had collaborated with
the SS, and had served as a guard in the SOBIBOR camp. In Israel, survivors
identified him also as being "Ivan the Terrible", a Ukrainian staff member
in TREBLINKA. On June 23, 1981, after a series of trials, Frank Batisti,
judge of the Northern District Court of the State of Ohio, ruled that
Demjanjuk had lied when filling out his immigration application form in
1951, had concealed his membership in the SS, had been in the TRAWNIKI SS
training camp, and had served in the Treblinka and Sobibor camps. His
American citizenship was annulled and he was in effect sentenced to
deportation. In October 1983, after Demjanjuk's appeals had failed, the
state of Israel requested his extradition. At the end of 1985 the request
was granted and on February 28, 1987 he was taken to Israel.
Capture and Indictment. -- Eichmann
The trial of Adolf EICHMANN, held in Jerusalem in 1961 and 1962.
Eichmann had been captured by Israeli agents in Argentina in May 1960, and
on February 21, 1961, the Israeli attorney general, Gideon HAUSNER signed a
bill of indictment against him. The indictment consisted of fifteen counts
of "crimes against the Jewish people, crimes against humanity, war crimes, "
and membership in the SS, SD and Gestapo - all which had been declared
"criminal organizations" at the International Military Tribunal at the
NUREMBERG TRIAL. The charges did not confine themselves to Eichmann's acts
against the Jews, but included crimes against the Poles, Slovenes, GYPSIES
and Czechs. All the counts related to offenses under the Nazis and Nazi
Collaborators (Punishment) Law 5710 - 1950.
Leading Personalities in the Trial.
The trial, conducted by the District Court of Jerusalem, began on April 10,
1961. The court consisted of Supreme Court justice Moshe Landau (who
presided), Jerusalem District Court president Benjamin Halevi, and Tel Aviv
District Court judge Yitzhak Raveh. The public prosecution was headed by
Hausner and the defense was headed by Dr. Robert Servatius, a German lawyer
who had defended several of the accused in the Nuremberg trials.
The Defense.
The defense raised several preliminary arguments: (1) there was reason to
doubt whether the judges, who were Jews and citizens of Israel, were able to
give the accused a fair trial; (2) the trial must not be held, because the
accused had been kidnapped an illegally taken to Israel; (3) the Nazis and
Nazi Collaborators Law 5710 - 1950 was a post factum law and therefore
unjust; and (4) the offenses had been committed outside the borders of the
state of Israel and before its establishment. All these arguments were
rejected by the court, based on legal reasoning and precedents. The
defendant, then, pleaded on each count: "In the sense of the indictment, not
guilty."
The Prosecution's Case.
The prosecution presented its case using over one hundred witnesses and
sixteen hundred documents, many bearing Eichmann's own signature. It
furnished the court with details of the persecution of the Jews in all its
stages and in all of Nazi - dominated Europe. It proved the personal
involvement of Eichmann, as head of the Gestapo section for Jewish affairs
(office IV B4), in all these stages. The defense did not really question the
facts related to these events, or challenge the authenticity of the
documents. Rather, it played down Eichmann's role by depicting him as an
underling who had no choice but to carry out the orders of his superiors.
The court rejected this claim. The trial proved Eichmann had fully
identified with his task. The court also found that the claim that Eichmann
was only following orders, was of no avail to him from the legal standpoint.
Eichmann was found guilty on all counts, with some minor changes, and on
December 15, 1961 was sentenced to death. Eichmann lodged an appeal which
was rejected by a panel of five justices of the Israeli supreme court,
presided over by Yitzhak Olshan, on May 29, 1962. Following the denial of a
plea for clemency, by the president of Israel, Itzhak Ben - Zvi, Eichmann
was hanged on the night between May 31 and June 1, 1962. It was the only
instance in the annals of the state of Israel of a death sentence being
carried out. His body was cremated and the ashes scattered over the sea,
beyond Israel's territorial waters.
Ramifications of the Trial.
In general, the trial which had aroused great interest in Israel and around
the world, was well received around the world and seen as the embodiment of
historical justice. It lead to an increased interest in Holocaust research
and spurred other trials and investigations, especially in West Germany.
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The Laws of 1943.
In late 1943 the government - in - exile of the Netherlands enacted four
laws providing for the prosecution of war criminals and collaborators. The
crimes that were classed as such were not included in the prewar code of
criminal law, the retroactive force of the laws being justified by the
argument that before the war the legislator had not been aware that such
crimes existed. A special juridical authority was established for war
criminals and collaborators.
Special Tribunals.
The special tribunals were activated in late 1945 and ceased to operate in
1950. In 1944 and 1945, as the Netherlands was being liberated, Dutch forces
arrested 450,000 suspects (some 5 percent of the country's population), of
whom, however, only 200,532 had their files forwarded to the prosecution.
Before long the Dutch government freed the majority of the suspects, and by
the end of 1945 the number in detention was down to 90,000.
A total of 14,562 persons were convicted and sentenced in the Netherlands,
the punishment pronounced by the courts decreasing in severity as time
elapsed and the impact of liberation declined. One hundred and nine death
sentences were passed, but only thirty - nine were carried out, among them
those of five Germans and one Jewish woman. All the other death sentences
were commuted to life imprisonment. Eventually all prison sentences passed
by the special tribunals were reduced. As a result, by early 1960 only
forty - nine persons were still in prison, and these were also set free,
with the exception of four who were accomplices in the murders of Jews. One
of the four (Willi Lages) was set free for health reasons in 1966 (he died
in 1971); one died in prison; and in 1989 the last two criminals, Ferdinand
aus der Funten and Franz Fischer, were amnestied, which caused angry
demonstrations in many parts of the country.
Abraham Asscher and David Cohen.
Among the collaborators whom the prosecution sought to bring to trial were
two heads of the Joodse Raad (Jewish Council), Abraham Asscher and Professor
David Cohen. They were arrested in 1947, but a month later the minister of
justice ordered their release, in the face of widespread public indignation
and legal opinions which argued that their arrest had no legal foundation.
Friedrich Weinreb.
Another affair that agitated public opinion in the Netherlands over many
years was the conviction of Friedrich Weinreb, a Jew who during the war had
pretended that owing to his ties with German army officers he could arrange
for many Jews to emigrate. In 1948 Weinreb was sentenced to six years'
imprisonment, on a charge of collaboration. In the mid - 1960s the
government appointed an inquiry commission, which again found him guilty.
Pieter Menten.
Another famous case was that of Pieter Menten, a wealthy businessman with
close connections in the Dutch administration. Habib Kenaan, an Israeli
journalist, proved that Menten had been responsible for the murder of
Kenaan's family and of many other Jews in Galicia. In 1980 Menten was
brought to trial, and was sentenced to ten years in prison and a fine of
100,000 gulden.
Public Attitude Toward Trials.
Judicial proceedings in the Netherlands against war criminals and
collaborators were treated with indifference by the Dutch public in the
immediate postwar period. Thus certain government circles were able to
intervene in behalf of influential suspects. The growing interest in the
events of World War II in the 1960s, together with the findings of the
inquiry commissions and the great number of research studies published,
brought home to the Dutch public that grave errors had been made in the way
the prosecution of Nazi criminals and their helpers had been handled.
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Riain Y. Barton
As early as December 1944, the Hungarian provisional government in Debrecen
began to take measures toward prosecuting suspected war criminals, and
special courts for that purpose, called people's tribunals, began to try
cases as soon as the war ended. By the end of 1946 most of the leading
Hungarian politicians who had cooperated with Nazi Germany or had created
the circumstances for Hungary's collaboration with the Nazis had been tried
and punished.
Laszlo Bardossy.
Among the first of the major cases was that of former premier Laszlo
Bardossy (1941 - 1942), whose trial began on October 29, 1945. Amongthe more
specific charges against him was that of complicity in the murder of
Hungarian Jews at Kamenets - Podolski and Novi Sad. Bardossy was found
guilty and was hanged on January 10, 1946.
Bela Imredy.
Former premier Bela Imredy (1938 - 1939) was brought to trial on November
14, 1945. He was accused, in part, of having prepared for the later
persecution of the Jews by drafting the First Anti - Jewish Law in his
capacity as a government minister and by signing the Second Anti - Jewish
Law while serving as premier. On March 1, 1946, he was executed.
Andor Jaros, Laszlo Baky and Laszlo Endre.
The notorious antisemites Andor Jaross (former minister of the interior) and
his undersecretaries, Laszlo Baky and Laszlo Endre, were tried between the
end of December 1945 and early January 1946. All three were accused of war
crimes and of having played major roles in the plundering and deportation of
Hungarian Jewry. On March 26, 1946, Endre and Baky were hanged; on April 11,
1946, Jaross was shot.
Other Members of the Sztojay and Szalasi Governments.
In the series of trials held between December 1945 and March 1946, most of
the other members of the governments of Dome Sztojay and Ferenc Szlasi were
tried, including the former prime ministers themselves. Most of the former
ministers were executed.
The Novi Sad Massacre.
Other significant trials also resulted in death sentences. Martin Zoldy and
Jozsef Grassy were tried for their role in the Novi Sad massacre. A court
convicted them, but a subsequent appeal led to an overturning of the
verdict. Later they were extradited to Yugoslavia, the scene of the
massacre, where acourt again convicted them and sentenced them to death;
both were executed.
Arrow Cross Men.
Emil Kovacz, an Arrow Cross party leader who was instrumental in deporting
Jews from Budapest during the Szlasi regime, was also sentenced to death and
executed, as were Peter Hain (chief of the Hungarian secret police) and
Laszlo Ferenczy of the gendarmerie. Both Hain and Ferenczy had been
instrumental in the deportation of Hungarian Jewry. In 1967, former Arrow
Cross men from the organization's headquarters in the Budapest suburb of
Zuglo were put on trial. Three of the defendants, Vilmos Kroszl, Lajos
Nemeth, and Alijos Sndor, were executed. Sixteen others were sentenced to
long terms of hard labor.
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Wartime Declarations.
The government of Vidkun Quisling could not prevent the emergence of a
Norwegian movement of resistance to the Nazis and of aid to and rescue of
their victims. Members of the resistance movement and those Jews who had not
managed to escape to Sweden who fell into the hands of the occupation
authorities were brutally tortured and murdered. It was therefore natural
for the Norwegian government - in - exile in London to join in the warnings
and declarations issued by the Allies concerning their determination to
punish the Nazi criminals.
The Basis of the Trials.
The trials in Norway were based on a decree issued on May 5, 1945, and a
special law (Law No. 14) passed on December 13, 1946. According to this
legislation, punishment for crimes that had been accepted as crimes either
formally or by international consensus before World War II could be enforced
retroactively. Punishment for other categories of crimes, as spelled out in
Law No. 14, could not be applied retroactively to World War II. The courts
that tried the Nazis also based themselves on a resolution that the
Norwegian parliament had adopted on April 9, 1940.
Major Trials.
Apart from the Quisling trial, some of the most important trials of Nazis
held in Norway dealt with the following war criminals: Karl - Hans Klinge, a
German police officer notorious for the inhuman torture of prisoners;
Police officer Richard Wilhelm Bruns and other police officers charged with
cruel mistreatment and murder;
SS - Obersturmbannfuhrer Gerhard Flesch, who, as superior officer to the
commandant of the Falstad concentration camp, ordered the commandant to have
shot three Jews whom Flesch had encountered by chance;
Hans Paul Helmut Latza, president of the Nazi Court, who bore responsibility
for numerous acts of murder;
Hauptsturmfuhrer Oskar Hans, charged with the murder of 312 persons, among
them Jews of Norwegian and other nationalities.
In these trials, all of the accused were sentenced to death.
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Riain Y. Barton
Special Courts.
In view of the enormous crimes committed by the Nazis in Poland, the Polish
authorities regarded the punishment of the criminals as an urgent task.
The Polski Komitet Wyzwolenia Narodowego (Polish Committee of National
Liberation), established in liberated Lublin on July 21, 1944, issued an
order on August 31 on the punishment of Nazi criminals. Special courts were
established; the proceedings were of a summary nature, without the right of
appeal. In 1949 the special courts were abolished and subsequent trials came
before regular courts. On January 22, 1946, the Najwyzszy Trybunal Narodowy
(Supreme National Court) was created to deal with trials of special
significance.
Initial Trials.
The first trial of war criminals in Poland was held from November 27 to
December 2, 1944; the accused were staff members of the Majdanek camp. The
number of Nazi war criminals tried after the war was 5,450, a tiny fraction
of the total, since most of the criminals had fled with the retreating
German forces. The attempts made after the war to extradite war criminals to
Polandwere only partially successful; the total number extradited was 1,803.
A mass of documentation was accumulated in the numerous trials of Nazi war
criminals by Polish courts.
The Supreme National Court Trials.
The trials before the Supreme National Court were of special importance. The
first such trial (June 7 to 21, 1946) was that of Arthur Greiser, the
Gauleiter of the Warthegau. Next to be tried (August 27 to September 5,1946)
was Amon Goeth, who had been the commandant of the Plaszow camp. In the
trial of Ludwig Fischer, who had been governor of the Warsaw district, and
in that of Ludwig Leist, the former governor of Warsaw, and of two Higher SS
and Police Leaders, Josef Meisinger and Max Daum (December 17, 1946, to late
February 1947), all the accused were found guilty of crimes against the
population of Warsaw.
The trial of former Auschwitz commandant, Rudolf Hoss, was held March 11 to
29, 1947. This trial was followed by the trial of Arthur Liebehenschel
(November 24 to December 16, 1947), who succeeded Hoss as camp commandant,
and thirty - nine other Auschwitz staff. In the trial held from April 5 to
27, 1948, the accused was Albert Forster, who had been Gauleiter of Danzig
and then of Danzig - East Prussia. From, April 17 to June 5, 1948, the man
in the dock was Josef Buhler, who had been deputy governor of the
Generalgouvernement. The Nazi criminals tried by the Supreme National Court
were all sentenced to death and executed, with the exception of Leist and
some of the Auschwitz camp staff. Of the thousands of trials held before the
special courts and, later, the regular courts, the most important were:
Erich Koch (1959), who had been governor of East Prussia. Jurgen Stroop
(1951), who in 1943, was in charge of suppressing the Warsaw Ghetto
Uprising. Franz Konrad (1951), an SS officer who assisted in the suppression
of the Warsaw ghetto uprising. Herbert Buttcher (1949), SS and Police Leader
in the Radom district. Hans Biebow (1947), chief of the Lodz ghetto
administration. Jacob Sporrenberg (1950), SS and Police Leader in the Lublin
district. Paul Otto Geibel (1954), SS and Police Leader in Warsaw. Also
brought to trial were several dozen persons who had served on the staffs of
the Auschwitz, Majdanek, and Stutthof camps. The Polish courts regarded the
administrative institutions of the concentration camps, the camp command,
administrative officers, and personnel as criminal organizations. Also
declared to be criminal organizations were the Generalgouvernement
administration; the paramilitary Selbstschutz, a self - defense organization
made up of Volksdeutsche (ethnic Germans) in Poland; and the Ukrainska
Povstanska Armyia (Ukrainian Insurgent Army).
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The First Period.
Punishment of Romanian war criminals was not universally accepted, and was
carried out against the background of the severe political struggle. The
trials of war criminals can be divided into three periods: (1) from the
overthrow of the Antonescu regime on August 23, 1944, until the rise of a
majority Communist government on March 6, 1945; (2) from the establishment
of a partially Communist regime on March 6, 1945, until the establishment of
a completely Communist regime on December 30, 1947; and (3) from December
30, 1947, to 1955.
In the first period, Romania had to fulfill the conditions of the cease -
fire agreement to immediately dissolve pro - Nazi organizations. The
Romanian government also undertook to imprison German and Hungarian citizens
and to extradite them to the Soviet Union. However, Only on January 20,
1945, were the first laws concerning legal steps against Nazi criminals
passed. The regulations did not recognize the right of the victims to be
represented in the courts, and no Jewish organization was included in the
judiciary bodies or in the prosecution that prepared the trials. At the same
time, certain judges presiding in these trials had, under Antonescu,
condemned Jews or had decreed death penalties for transgressions against the
racial laws of the Antonescu regime. In this first period the Communist
party supported the punishing of war criminals as part of their power
struggle.
The Second Period.
By the second period, some of the most important Nazi criminals involved in
the extermination of the Jews of Bessarabia and Bukovina and of the Jewish
deportees in Transnistria were brought to trial. To strike a "balance, "
some of the Jewish deportees who had collaborated with the Romanians were
also tried. Under Soviet pressure, the pro - Communist government, which was
established on March 6, 1945, began to speed up punishment of Nazi
criminals.
During the second period a new law was issued to bring to trial those
responsible for the national disaster and for war crimes and to punish them.
In this period the heads of the fascist regime were sentenced, and five,
including Ion Antonescu, were executed, in June 1946. In the course of 1946,
with the approach of the general elections, the government reneged on its
declarations, and ceased bringing war criminals to trial in order to prove
to its opponents that it was not pro - Jewish.
The peace treaty between the Allies and Romania stipulated that Romania must
bring war criminals to trial, but even after that time not all the war
criminals known to the Jews were punished. The perpetrators of the Iasi
pogroms of June 29, 1941, were brought to trial only in May 1948. This delay
constituted part of the Romanian effort to conceal the war crimes committed
by Romanian soldiers and citizens against Romanian Jews.
The Third Period.
The third period, 1947 to 1955, witnessed the arrest and imprisonment of
tens of thousands of opponents of the regime who had previously belonged to
the now dissolved old Romanian parties or to the Iron Guard. The aim was not
to sentence the criminals who had oppressed, plundered, violated, and
murdered the Jews, but to liquidate all opposition to the Communist regime.
The Repeal of the Punishment Laws.
In 1955 the punishment laws were repealed. Romanian studies tend to lay
stress on Hungarian crimes against the Romanians in northern Transylvania,
and they omit practically any mention of Romanian war criminals. The 1955
repeal of the punishment laws also granted a general pardon to a large
number of war criminals already serving prison sentences. All the criminals
sentenced to terms of up to ten years were released, and the prison
sentences of the rest were greatly reduced.
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Krasnodar Trial.
The first trial of Nazi criminals was held in the city of Krasnodar from
July 14 to 17, 1943, before the Soviet military tribunal of the North
Caucasian Front. The trial dealt with the crimes comitted by the Nazis in
the city, involving seven thousand acts of murder. Thirteen Soviet citizens
were brought to trial; all had served in the auxiliary unit of
Sonderkommando 10a (from Einsatzgruppe D), under the command of Dr. Kurt
Christmann. They were charged with participating in murders committed by
that unit, which was responsible for annihilating all the patients in the
Krasnodar municipal hospital, in the Berezhanka convalescent home, and in
the regional children's hospital. In their testimony, the accused described
the set up and action of the gas vans used for these murders.In the four
days of the trial twenty - two witnesses from the locality appeared,
including Ivan Kotov, who survived the gas van by breathing through a piece
of material soaked in urine. On July 17, 1943, eight of the accused were
sentenced to death by hanging, and three others to twenty years'
imprisonment with forcedlabor. This was the first trial in which the mass
murders of the Einsatzgruppen and the use of gas vans were made known to the
world. Recorded sessions of the trial appeared in newspapers in the Soviet
Union andthe West, and later were collected in booklets that were published
in severallanguages.
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Genocide Becomes a Crime in Germany
In 1955, the Federal Republic of Germany added to its criminal code a
paragraph (220a) adapting the provisions of the 1948 United Nations Genocide
Convention, and making a life sentence mandatory for murder with the
intention of destroying a national group. However, because genocide did not
appear as a crime in the criminal code that was in force when the Nazis were
in power, the Federal Republic does not apply paragraph 220a against Nazis
found guilty of that crime. The indictments and judgments are based on the
statutes that were in force when the crime was committed. Murder, physical
injury, and deprivation of liberty had been illegal in the Third Reich
throughout its existence. Such criminal acts, though, were not subject to
prosecution in Nazi Germany when committed on official orders. After the
war, the courts claimed that at the time the criminal acts were committed,
they had been under duress and unable to try the offenders, but that this by
no means implied that the acts in question had been legal or that the
state's power to prosecute them had lapsed; and the courts in the newly
created Federal Republic were empowered to try the offenders. Doubt also
remained as to whether the legal officers who had served under the Nazi
regime were capable of dispensing justice.
Former Nazi Judges.
In 1949, in the course of consultations on the draft constitution of the
Federal Republic, concern had been expressed over the possibility that
Heinrich Himmler's police and Nazi judges would be reinstated in the civil
service. This in fact did take place. On the basis of the constitutional
entitlement of former government officials to be maintained by the state
(article 131), nearly all the police, judges, and public prosecutors who had
served under the Nazis were reinstated in their posts. Consequently,
attempts to convict Nazi judges of judicial murder all failed. During the
Hitler period, judges had obeyed Nazi laws and had been blind to the
illegality of their actions; this blindness carried over into the new
postwar period, and proceedings instituted against these judges regularly
ended in an acquittal. In turn, the issues of obedience to official orders
and awareness of the illegality of such orders assumed roles of central
importance in the Federal Republic trials of Nazi criminals. This had not
been the case in proceedings conducted by the occupying powers (see superior
orders).
Superiors and Underlings.
Most of the persons brought to trial in the courts of the Federal Republic
had either killed with their own hands or had been in charge of killings.
The higher the rank of those accused, the farther removed they had been from
the actual scene of the crime, and, consequently, the more successful were
their eventual efforts to invoke the protection of the popular excuse of not
having been aware of the end goal, that is, extermination. On the other
hand, those whose awareness of the end goal was not in doubt -- the actual
killers -- only in rare cases had acted on their own, and they thus found
legal refuge in claiming that they had only been following superior orders.
The courts therefore spent much time trying to establish whether the acts of
murder carried out by the defendants were indeed to be regarded as murders
they had committed on their own. In this way, the judges managed to
perpetuate a system in which it could not be proved that the so - called
desk criminals had been aware of the killing, or that the executioners had
killed with intent or on their own initiative. The courts of the Federal
Republic found no solution to this dilemma.
A New Generation Comes of Age.
It was not until a new generation had come to maturity in the late 1950s,
which had not witnessed or supported Nazi crimes, or taken part in them,
that this situation changed. Although the majority of the German population
still called for an end to the prosecution of Nazi crimes, a minority
vehemently insisted on the prosecution of the crimes involving mass
extermination.
This new drive primarily affected the lowest ranks in the chain of command,
the subordinate echelons of the police and the SS who were charged with the
physical destruction of the masses of victims delivered into their hands --
the Einsatzgruppen and the personnel in the concentration camps. Prosecution
of the Einsatzgruppen murders, which the Nuremberg Military Tribunals had
documented as having been a joint effort of the Wehrmacht and the SS, was
now confined to the SS only. In concentration camp trials, the accused were
primarily camp guards and the camp commandants. Efforts to have the
deportations from German cities classified as participation in murder were
of no avail. This was also the outcome of efforts to convict Gerhard Peters,
the managing director of DEGESCH (Deutsche Gesellschaft fur
Schadlingsbekampfung mbH, or German Vermin - combating Corporation), the
sole supplier of zyklon b hydrogen cyanide to the SS; the top officials of
the Reichsbahn (the German railways); and the participants in the Wannsee
conference.
Defendents.
In the German courts, the chain of command leading to the "final solution"
was confined to the originators: Adolf Hitler, Hermann Goring, and Reinhard
Heydrich, at the top level, and to the actual murder personnel at the lowest
level. The responsibility of the intermediate level -- the bureaucratic -
military - industrial elites, which the Nuremberg Military Tribunals had
exposed -- was not recognized by the West German courts. Unlike the
Nuremberg courts, which considered certain state organs to be criminal, the
West German courts tended not to consider them as such. They based their
reasoning on the idea that most Nazi crimes had resulted from the direct and
conspiratorial delegation of orders from Hitler (Fuhrerbefehle) to the
actual murderers.
The Attitude of the German Public to War Crimes Trials.
In contrast to the Nuremberg judgments, the German courts' dispensation of
justice to Nazi criminals gained a degree of acceptance among the German
population. The guilt of the concentration camp killers and SS firing squads
was not in doubt. Yet they were given every consideration by the courts,
which felt that although the accused had engaged in a mass murder operation,
they were not "murderous types." The view of the courts was that since the
Holocaust was carried out in obedience to orders, the executioners, for the
most part, were not impelled by any murder motive of their own. Under German
law, a murder motive is the intent to murder in a particularly
reprehensible, compulsive, malicious, and bestial fashion, and this was not
seen as fitting the discipline and speed required by the extermination
operation. In the view of the judges the extermination personnel became the
"murderous type" only if they were imbued with Hitlerian racist hatred, or
if they performed the killing in an excessively cruel manner.
Lapsed Time.
Another factor inhibiting the courts was the time that had elapsed between
the crimes and the trials. By the time the trials were held, decades had
passed since the criminal acts had been committed, and only in a few cases
was it possible to arrive at precise findings. When it came to examining the
executioners' motivation, the courts, as a rule, accepted the perpetrators'
own testimony of having acted in obedience to orders. Counterarguments could
not be put forth easily, because the external details of the extermination
operation could not be reconstructed conclusively on the evidence given by
the victims. Moreover, in West German courts, the fact that a person had
been a member of a murder squad or an extermination camp staff was not
considered as incriminating; it had to be proved that the suspect had
personally taken part in killing or in giving orders to kill. Few witnesses
had survived, and those who had survived did not always remember with
sufficient accuracy such particulars as dates, times of day, places, faces,
and ranks. It was therefore rarely possible to give a verdict of guilty,
which had to be based on many small details.
The defense, for its part, diligently and skillfully tracked down
inaccuracies in the evidence submitted by the survivors. The victims'
memories often retained the overall situation, but not the minutiae of the
crime. The factory - like procedure of killing had left the memory blurred.
Criteria for Murder.
In general, the German courts decided that the crimes they were asked to
judge did not meet the criteria of murder as required by law. If the
defendants were shown to have killed, they were also generally shown to have
acted as tools of the Nazi machine. This meant that they were at most guilty
of being accessories to murder, an offense punishable by terms in prison
ranging from three years to life (as of 1975, from three to fifteen years).
In most cases the judges' evaluation of the seriousness of the crimes
committed in the extermination operation restricted the punishment they
dealt out to the minimum required by law. The accused also benefited from
the fact that they were no longer considered to represent a threat to the
community.
The full force of the law was applied only in the rather rare cases of
excessively cruel and sadistic criminals. Inflicting more pain and physical
or mental torture "than was necessary" was shown to be in violation of
orders the defendants had received. Federal German criminal courts regarded
such behavior as indication of murderous intent, and in these cases they
could therefore pass sentences of life imprisonment.
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BadPony
I'll try the questions again:
Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and collaborating
with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
A simple yes/no and the number will suffice.
Were any JEWS jailed for War Crimes and collaborating
with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
A simple yes/no and the number will suffice.
Then tell me to what extent you think the Soviets
overinflated the Holocaust figures for the areas that they came to
control as part of their black propaganda
wars (like Katyn Forest) against the Nazis. 10%, 30%, 200%??
Riain Y. Barton
Zyklon B Trial.
In March 1946 the trial of Bruno Tesch, Joachim Drosihn, and Karl Weinbacher
was held before a British military tribunal in Hamburg. The accused were
owners and executives of a Hamburg factory that from January 1,1941, to
March 31, 1945, manufactured poison gas used to kill concentration camp
prisoners. The gas, called Zyklon B, was manufactured by the Tesch and
Stabenow Company. It was used by the SS Totenkopfverbande (Death's - Head
Units) stationed in Auschwitz and the other extermination camps. The
defendants in the trial claimed that they did not know to what use their
product was put, a claim that was rebutted by Tesch's official company
reports of his trips to Auschwitz. Tesch and Weinbacher (the executive
manager of the"factory for means of death") were sentenced to death and
executed; Drosihn, an employee of the factory, was acquitted. The trial was
conducted on the basis of Military Order 81/45, which derived its authority
from a British law of June 14, 1945, that laid down the principles of the
Nuremberg trial. The Zyklon B Trial established for the first time that the
manufacture of gas for killing prisoners was a war crime.
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BadPony
Just got to keep the flag flying I guess and pumping out all
of this stuff.
Try again:
Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and collaborating
with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
A simple yes/no and the number will suffice.
Were any JEWS jailed for War Crimes and collaborating
with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
A simple yes/no and the number will suffice.
Then tell me to what extent you think the Soviets
overinflated the Holocaust figures for the areas that they came to
control as part of their black propaganda
wars (like Katyn Forest) against the Nazis. 10%, 30%, 200%??
Riain Y. Barton
Medical and Psychological Effects of Concentration Camps on Holocaust
Survivors
edited by Robert Krell, and Marc I. Sherman. New Brunswick, N.J. Transaction
, 1997, 337 pp., $49.95.
MARY V. SEEMAN, M.D.
Toronto, Ont., Canada
This is a comprehensive bibliography on the subject of the title for the
years 1945–1995, intended for scholars of the Holocaust. The bibliography
covers journal articles, books, and dissertations on the psychology and
mental health of Holocaust survivors and their children; it also covers
writings on human medical experimentation in Germany during the years 1933
through 1945. It includes writings in more than 10 languages.
This book constitutes the fourth volume of Genocide: A Critical
Bibliographic Review, an award-winning series of volumes of annotated
citations edited by Dr. Israel Charny, executive director of the Institute
on the Holocaust and Genocide in Jerusalem. Marc Sherman, co-editor of this
volume, is the associate editor of the series and an information specialist.
Robert Krell, the other editor, is a Canadian psychiatrist, professor
emeritus at the University of British Columbia. From 1942 to 1945, Dr. Krell
was a hidden child in The Hague, sheltered and protected by a family of
righteous Gentiles. He has devoted his professional career to listening to,
collecting, and memorializing the testimony of Holocaust survivors.
The book is dedicated to Prof. Leo Eitinger, a Norwegian psychiatrist who
died in October 1996, shortly before the book was published. Dr. Eitinger
was a Jewish medical doctor in Czechoslovakia when that country was invaded
in 1939. He fled to Norway but was caught and deported to Auschwitz, where
he served as a prisoner doctor. One of his patients there, Elie Wiesel,
writes the foreword to this book. Among its 2,461 citations, the
bibliography lists Dr. Eitinger's 55 articles and books on the Holocaust,
spanning the years 1945 through 1994. In 1979–1980, with Miriam Rieck, he
compiled the first research bibliography on psychological consequences of
the Holocaust. In 1985, he and Dr. Krell published an updated version; the
present book is a further update.
Of great interest in this bibliography are voluminous writings from behind
the Iron Curtain, primarily from Polish medical journals. To most North
American psychiatrists, this work is totally unknown. The U.S. literature on
the subject has been dominated by writings from a psychoanalytic
perspective, but attempts to grasp the Holocaust experience from within this
framework have largely failed. As Dr. Krell underscores in his two
introductory essays and his annotations to selected references, it was not
early vulnerabilities but, rather, the magnitude of the torture, loss,
terror, humiliation, and dehumanization that determined post-Holocaust
mental health. The amazing resilience and fortitude of child survivors
remains unexplained.
Holocaust studies today are undergoing fresh fervor and controversy. There
are Holocaust deniers and Holocaust appropriators. There are ongoing debates
on the meaning of survival, on the nature of evil, on the potential for acts
of heroism in the face of hopelessness. There is the continuing quest for
understanding. Who was responsible? Was it the whole German nation or only
the Nazi party? What should German physicians have done? What should Jewish
capos have done? What could the victims themselves have done? Why did the
international community stand by and do nothing? What about the
international Jewish community? What does it mean to be a "neutral" state in
the face of neighboring massacre and atrocity? What turns human beings into
mass murderers?
This book will not answer these questions but will certainly help in their
continuing exploration.
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By Bart Barnes
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 23, 2002
John M. Komski, 87, a retired Washington Post artist who during five years
of World War II survived five concentration camps in Poland and Germany,
died of cancer July 20 at Virginia Hospital Center-Arlington.
On June 14, 1940, Mr. Komski was in the first group of about 750 prisoners
assigned to Auschwitz, in southern Poland, on the day it opened. His number,
564, was tattooed on his forearm. On April 29, 1945, he was in the Dachau
concentration camp in Germany when the camp was liberated by the U.S. Army.
In 1949, after four years in displaced-persons camps in Germany, Mr. Komski
came to the United States under the sponsorship of an uncle, and in the
early 1950s, he settled in the Washington area.
He retired from The Washington Post in 1984 after 29 years with the
newspaper. But he continued painting and drawing until shortly before his
death, producing art of two disparate themes: landscapes, flowers and
woodlands from the parks and woods in and around Arlington, where he had
lived for the past 40 years, and scenes of death, barbed wire, brutality and
starvation from the concentration camp years, 1940 to 1945. His work has
been displayed at the Auschwitz memorial museum in Poland, at shows in
Houston and Chicago, and at recreation centers and outdoor art exhibitions
in Northern Virginia.
"I tried to forget about the camps for everyday. Now I have to force myself
to think about it. . . . Though sometimes I am very distant from these
stories, I can bring them forth at any moment. . . . The reason I am doing
these paintings is because I always thought it only destiny or providence
that allowed me to live when I knew there were tens of thousands of people
who died there. . . . I wanted to do something to show the misery," Mr.
Komski said in a 1973 interview with Shop Talk, a Washington Post employees'
newsletter.
When searching for a more peaceful artistic alternative to the misery of the
concentration camps, Mr. Komski often rose early in the morning to spend a
quiet hour or two in a nearby park or sylvan space, sketching the ordinary
scenery. He would then return to his studio, where with watercolors he added
hue to the drawings.
Born in Bircza, Poland, Mr. Komski graduated from the Krakow Art Institute
in 1939, the year that World War II began with Nazi Germany's invasion of
Poland on Sept. 1. He was a Roman Catholic, and unlike Poland's large Jewish
population, he was not immediately singled out for special persecution.
But life was harsh for mostly everyone under the Nazi occupation. Years
later, Mr. Komski would recall rising at 4 o'clock in the morning in Krakow
and standing in line for hours at a bakery to purchase a loaf of bread. One
day on the street, he was stopped by a German soldier. Mr. Komski thought
the soldier was going to ask directions. Instead, the soldier kicked him.
"This is where I realize that Poland is in war," he says on a Web page entry
of World War II autobiographical recollections.
By February 1940, Mr. Komski had decided to flee Poland for France, where a
Free Polish Army was being formed. But he was captured in Czechoslovakia and
returned to Poland, where he was sent to Auschwitz. Thirty convicted
criminals from Germany were assigned to Auschwitz as capos, or prison
supervisors. They were energetic and enthusiastic, Mr. Komski recalled, in
the beating of other prisoners for such minor infractions as failing to
remove their hats when speaking to a capo.
At Auschwitz, he was assigned to the architect's office, where he worked on
plans for the expansion of the camp. "Auschwitz was small at the time,
surrounded by numerous villages which were to be incorporated into the camp.
These villages would be evacuated, the people sent to labor camps, and their
homes destroyed. Prisoners were employed building fences, kitchens, larger
barracks. . . . By winter, there were 150,000 prisoners in Auschwitz.
"Ninety-nine percent of these people were dead when I escaped in 1942. The
Jews we never saw. They would be brought in and unloaded at the siding,
stripped and taken straight to the gas chambers," Mr. Komski recalled.
Mr. Komski escaped Auschwitz by organizing a fake work detail outside the
perimeter of the concentration camp with three other men. He was recaptured
16 days later aboard a train en route for Warsaw in a routine, random
Gestapo roundup of prisoner candidates for labor camps. He was fortunate in
having used a false name in his first arrest: Had the Germans been aware
that he was an Auschwitz escapee, he would have been summarily executed.
In the final years of the war, he was herded from camp to camp --
Buchenwald, Gross-Rosen, Hersbruck and finally Dachau. He did not know how
to cook, but he learned when he was made head cook for a unit of 20,000
prisoners. "You learn very fast in the camps," he said. His painting,
drawing and sketching talents kept him from some of the worst concentration
camp jobs, like those in mines and gas factories, and the jobs with the
shortest life expectancy.
On Easter Sunday of 1945, he was one of 20,000 prisoners marched from
Hersbruck to Dachau. "All food supplies for prisoners had been stopped
immediately, and I recall marching five days without food or water. We all
became so weak that when we came upon a green pasture, we picked up grass
and ate. The German capos had formed a column of gravediggers, because there
were so many bodies on the roads it was decided to dig graves on the
roadside."
Only 9,000 survived the 16-day journey. On April 29, Mr. Komski recalled,
the prisoners were told to remain indoors. It was strangely quiet. Then
there was the sound of gunfire. Peering outside, he saw prisoners running
through the barbed wire, which had been torn to pieces.
"Then I see first one American, and then a second and a third. Within half
an hour, the whole camp was decorated with flags of all nations, probably
sewn together and hidden for a long time," Mr. Komski said in a 1979
interview with Washington Post staff writer Michael Kernan.
After his liberation from Dachau, Mr. Komski was sent to displaced-persons
camps in Bavaria and then Munich. There he married another Auschwitz
survivor. They lived in Elizabeth, N.J., for their first few years in the
United States, then moved to this area, where Mr. Komski eventually joined
the art staff of The Washington Post.
Survivors include his wife of 57 years, Zdzislawa "Jean" Komski of
Arlington; a daughter, Christine Sullivan of Arlington; a sister in Poland;
and two grandchildren.
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ToCdncMa0bf...@comcast.com...
Riain Y. Barton
Document Actions
03/07/2003
BERLIN, July 3 (AFP) - When Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said
Martin Schulz would be ideally cast in the role of a "Capo" at a
concentration camp in a Nazi-era film, he was likening the German MEP to a
modern-day prison trustee.
It is hard to trace the exact roots of the word, but it may have come from
the Latin "Capo", meaning "head", and been used to designate prison leaders
appointed by the Nazis in camp blocks or barracks.
According to the German language reference work Duden, Capo or "Kapo" in
German was the short form of "caporal", the French word for an army
corporal.
The Simon Wiesenthal Centre says the term was used in Nazi concentration
camps for a prisoner chosen by the SS to head a work gang made up of other
prisoners.
Often chosen from the criminal element, the Kapos were treated better and,
more often than not, brutalized other prisoners, it says.
The US-compiled "Dictionary of the Holocaust: Biography, Geography, and
Terminology," says they were often Jews appointed as cell block leaders and
were chosen so as to create dissent among those being held at the camps.
Israel's Ben Gurion University says Capos were often Jewish functionaries
who worked for the Nazi regime.
They were viewed by some as Nazi collaborators, but by others as tragic
victims of circumstances, hoping to survive in an impossible situation and
simply trying their best to help their fellow Jews.
Northwestern University in Chicago, meanwhile, suggests the term was
probably introduced in Dachau by Italian workers in the 1930s and then
became a generic term for all inmate functionaries.
The word is still in common usage in Berlusconi's native Italy, meaning
"boss", but it does not have any pejorative connotation.
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ToCdncMa0bf...@comcast.com...
Riain Y. Barton
find?
Or is it simply you have your answers and no matter what I post you still
believe your answers only?
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ToCdnf8a0be...@comcast.com...
Riain Y. Barton
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:weWdnfozoMK...@comcast.com...
BadPony
of you :) In your case, I think the real truth is that you
are afraid of the answers that my questions evoke.
I asked you simple questions and I am not going to
wade through the documentary equivalent of a data warehouse to satisfy
your agenda (whatever that may or may not be). If your sole response to
my question (apart from flooding me with boatloads of irrelevant
information about the Holocaust from non-independent/objective sources)
is to start calling me obscenities, then I suggest that you HAVE indeed,
answered my questions. Thanks for the insight.
It's a common ploy when someone asks you a question to dump
mounds of paper (or websites) on them and say "It's in there! when
you have no answers of value or that will make sense to the
questioner.
Riain Y. Barton
want to learn anything else.
You are just another low-life NAZI.
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e-dnbJSvLq...@comcast.com...
amigo cabal
"Riain Y. Barton" <ri...@riain.com> wrote in message
news:g4CdnSHcwO5...@comcast.com...
> Concentration camp Capos:
ALL THE CAPOS, AND ORDNUNGSPOLIZEI WERE JEWS!
BadPony
So let's see, you have called me a cunt, now a Nazi, all because
I asked you questions that you were unable or unwilling to answer.
Instead, you sent me mountains of documents saying "the answers are
in there".
I'll post the questions again, seeing that you are having difficulty
with them:
| Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and collaborating
| with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
|
| A simple yes/no and the number will suffice.
|
| Were any JEWS jailed for War Crimes and collaborating
| with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
|
| A simple yes/no and the number will suffice.
|
| Then tell me to what extent you think the Soviets
| overinflated the Holocaust figures for the areas that they came to
| control as part of their black propaganda
| wars (like Katyn Forest) against the Nazis. 10%, 30%, 200%??
See, these are relatively simple questions that ask for simple
answers - why are you unable to answer?
Try these too - did the Mossad actively hunt down Jewish collaborators
after WWII with the same fervor that they hunted Eichmann? If not,
why not?
To what extent did Ben Hecht get it right in his book Perfidy about
Rudolph Kastner and prominent Jews only saving the rich, famous and
more importantly, those who supported the creation of the state of
Israel?
Take your time.
Zev
<snipped>
> Try these too - did the Mossad actively hunt down Jewish collaborators
> after WWII with the same fervor that they hunted Eichmann? If not,
> why not?
>
> To what extent did Ben Hecht get it right in his book Perfidy about
> Rudolph Kastner and prominent Jews only saving the rich, famous and
> more importantly, those who supported the creation of the state of
> Israel?
Some truth to this, but many people could have behaved more righteously
during the holocaust including Americans, Arabs, and Europeans.
So what?
What would be the point in punishing Jews who stole
from other Jews in order to survive?
What would be the point in punishing Jews
who did everthing they could
to keep their names off lists of people
to be sent to concentration camps,
knowing full well that someone else would take their place,
because the Nazis wouldn't accept a list with fewer names
than they had demanded?
BTW Israel didn't actively hunt down anyone at all besides Eichmann.
<snipped>
Sarah Branson
> > Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and
> > collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
Not as far as I know. Most of their Jewish collaborators were executed
by the NAZIs themselves.
The NAZI knew something about duplicity. Even a stopped clock is right
twice per day.
> > Were any JEWS jailed for War Crimes and
> > collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
Was this possible? Either they escaped, which would have been very
difficult, and any that did presumably hid their collaborating past.
> > Then tell me to what extent you think the Soviets
> > overinflated the Holocaust figures for the areas that
> > they came to control as part of their black propaganda
> > wars (like Katyn Forest) against the Nazis. 10%, 30%, 200%??
If no lies were told in that war, it would have been the first and
doubtless the last as well.
Your lowest estimate of the number of Jews executed by the NAZIs is two
million.
Still not very nice people these National Socialists.
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
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BadPony
Sarah Branson wrote:
> BadPony wrote:
>
>
>>> Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and
>>> collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
>
>
>
> Not as far as I know. Most of their Jewish collaborators were executed
> by the NAZIs themselves.
Not by a long shot, because many of the camp police were Jews.
> The NAZI knew something about duplicity. Even a stopped clock is right
> twice per day.
>
>
>
>>> Were any JEWS jailed for War Crimes and
>>> collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
>
>
>
> Was this possible? Either they escaped, which would have been very
> difficult, and any that did presumably hid their collaborating past.
>
Everyone vanished into the great melting pot of refugees after
WWII was done - point is, were they hunted down like Eichmann?
>
>>> Then tell me to what extent you think the Soviets
>>> overinflated the Holocaust figures for the areas that
>>> they came to control as part of their black propaganda
>>> wars (like Katyn Forest) against the Nazis. 10%, 30%, 200%??
>
>
>
> If no lies were told in that war, it would have been the first and
> doubtless the last as well.
>
> Your lowest estimate of the number of Jews executed by the NAZIs is two
> million.
I have heard figures of 1.5 million.
> Still not very nice people these National Socialists.
Not suggesting they were. Merely interested from an historical
perspective as to what the truth really is. Both the Soviets
and the Nazis didn't hesitate to kill people (even their own)
who objected to the system. Stalin had some of the most sophisticated
disinformation and black propaganda machines though, right down to
editing Trotsky out of shots of Lenin! After the truth about Katyn
Forest became known i.e. that the Russians had liquidated the Polish
officer corps, not the Germans, it became time to start questioning
conventional wisdom and "known facts". Seems really tough to come by
those these days, as most sources seem to b in subjective hands...
>
>
Riain
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5MCdnZ86rKj...@comcast.com...
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: >
: >
Sarah Branson
> > Not as far as I know. Most of their Jewish
> > collaborators were executed by the NAZIs themselves.
>
> Not by a long shot, because many of
> the camp police were Jews.
At the end of the war they were thanked in speeches by the Germans, and
shot in the back.
> Merely interested from an historical
> perspective as to what the truth really is.
Britannia waives the rules.
BadPony
Sarah Branson wrote:
> BadPony wrote:
>
>
>>>Not as far as I know. Most of their Jewish
>>>collaborators were executed by the NAZIs themselves.
>>
>>Not by a long shot, because many of
>>the camp police were Jews.
>
>
>
> At the end of the war they were thanked in speeches by the Germans, and
> shot in the back.
>
Not all though, because it got pretty chaotic as various Allied armies
rolled in.
>
>>Merely interested from an historical
>>perspective as to what the truth really is.
>
>
>
> Britannia waives the rules.
Must be why the Jewish underground blew up the King David
hotel pre independence.
Sarah Branson
> > Britannia waives the rules.
>
> Must be why the Jewish underground blew
> up the King David hotel pre independence.
The mean British opinion on Israel and the Jews is maybe slightly pro
Israel.
The UK's F&CO (Foreign and Commonwealth Office) hates Israel, the Jews
and loves the Arabs so much, that it is only on questions relating to
Israel, that the US allows the UK F&CO to abstain in the UN Security
Council.
BadPony
Sarah Branson wrote:
> BadPony wrote:
>
>
>>>Britannia waives the rules.
>>
>>Must be why the Jewish underground blew
>>up the King David hotel pre independence.
>
>
>
> The mean British opinion on Israel and the Jews is maybe slightly pro
> Israel.
Mabye not at the universities.
> The UK's F&CO (Foreign and Commonwealth Office) hates Israel, the Jews
> and loves the Arabs so much, that it is only on questions relating to
> Israel, that the US allows the UK F&CO to abstain in the UN Security
> Council.
Seems objectivity is hard to come by. I'm only really interested in the
WWII stuff at present - I think both Arabs and Jews have their own
collection of barking lunatics determined to wreck peace processes
out there and Israel may yet be fighting it's own.
Sarah Branson
> > The mean British opinion on Israel and
> > the Jews is maybe slightly pro Israel.
>
> Mabye not at the universities.
Yes, but student politics is crap isn't it? I see Jack Straw has
managed find himself something sensible to do, since vacating his post
as NUS president. Not so Lorna Fitzsimmons.
I have done some serious student politics. We got the common room
open, with a few games machines (I fixed the tilt on the pin ball) and
a refectory staffed a coffee bar; and on one evening John Peel for a
gig.
A woman who left the police to start her family, asked me what I was
doing, and I told her about the Student Union. She was appalled that I
was going on demonstrations and the like. Not quite, but that pin ball
machine was a lot of fun.
> I think both Arabs and Jews have their own collection
> of barking lunatics determined to wreck peace processes
> out there and Israel may yet be fighting it's own.
It's like Battersea Dogs Home down there. Not so much East Ham, one
stop short of Barking, as Upminster. If Jews want to live in a Jewish
state, there's always New York City; and Mecca for the Arabs.
After College, see if you can work for the F&CO. They really do have
their own policies and run the department independent of the UK
government, and whichever Minister is supposed to be responsible for
Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs.
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
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BadPony
Sarah Branson wrote:
> BadPony wrote:
>
>
>>>The mean British opinion on Israel and
>>>the Jews is maybe slightly pro Israel.
>>
>>Mabye not at the universities.
>
>
>
> Yes, but student politics is crap isn't it? I see Jack Straw has
> managed find himself something sensible to do, since vacating his post
> as NUS president. Not so Lorna Fitzsimmons.
>
> I have done some serious student politics. We got the common room
> open, with a few games machines (I fixed the tilt on the pin ball) and
> a refectory staffed a coffee bar; and on one evening John Peel for a
> gig.
>
> A woman who left the police to start her family, asked me what I was
> doing, and I told her about the Student Union. She was appalled that I
> was going on demonstrations and the like. Not quite, but that pin ball
> machine was a lot of fun.
>
>
>
>>I think both Arabs and Jews have their own collection
>>of barking lunatics determined to wreck peace processes
>>out there and Israel may yet be fighting it's own.
>
>
>
> It's like Battersea Dogs Home down there. Not so much East Ham, one
> stop short of Barking, as Upminster. If Jews want to live in a Jewish
> state, there's always New York City; and Mecca for the Arabs.
Haha - very funny - I like that. New York City is not the place
it was pe-911 - when it was like 19th Century Venice. It's lost
50k jobs and is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy like the
bad old days pre-Giuliani (not that he was so wonderful).
>
> After College, see if you can work for the F&CO. They really do have
> their own policies and run the department independent of the UK
> government, and whichever Minister is supposed to be responsible for
> Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs.
College was quite a while back for me and late in life too,
after some military and dilettante stuff. I'm closer to retirement now
than college, but still quite a few years to go!
Riain
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:46SdnWmdKf7...@comcast.com...
:
:
Alan Cossey
www.sarahbranson.com looks like it has been hacked.
Alan Cossey
"Sarah Branson" <sarah....@informationcommissioner.gov.uk> wrote in
message news:xn0dy007...@127.0.0.1...
Ben Cramer
"Riain" <ri...@riain.com> wrote in message
news:k6SdnW_oa9_...@comcast.com...
That is not why --- you really are an uneducated fool.
Could you provide your explanation of why the King David was blown up
please?
Ben
Riain
The Bombing of the King David Hotel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel.
A week later, news of a massacre of 40 Jews in a pogrom in Poland reminded the Jews of Palestine how Britain's restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death.
Irgun leader Menachem Begin stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualties and said three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, another to the French Consulate, and a third to the Palestine Post, warning that explosives in the King David Hotel would soon be detonated.
On July 22, 1946, the calls were made. The call into the hotel was apparently received and ignored. Begin quotes one British official who supposedly refused to evacuate the building, saying: "We don't take orders from the Jews."1 As a result, when the bombs exploded, the casualty toll was high: a total of 91 killed and 45 injured. Among the casualties were 15 Jews. Few people in the hotel proper were injured by the blast.2
In contrast to Arab attacks against Jews, which were widely hailed as heroic actions, the Jewish National Council denounced the bombing of the King David.3
For decades the British denied they had been warned. In 1979, however, a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived.4
Notes
1. Menachem Begin, The Revolt, (NY: Nash Publishing, 1977), p. 224.
2. J. Bowyer Bell, Terror Out Of Zion, (NY: St. Martin's Press), p. 172.
3. Anne Sinai and I. Robert Sinai, Israel and the Arabs: Prelude to the Jewish State, (NY: Facts on File, 1972), p. 83.
4. Benjamin Netanyahu, ed., "International Terrorism: Challenge And Response," Proceedings of the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism, July 25, 1979, (Jerusalem: The Jonathan Institute, 1980), p. 45.
"Ben Cramer" <bencr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4200a7d1$1$250$61c6...@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
:
: "Riain" <ri...@riain.com> wrote in message
:
:
:
BadPony
humour do you? Sarcasm not big in your world?
Susan Cohen
"Ben Cramer" <bencr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4200a7d1$1$250$61c6...@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
The same as everyone else's with even half a functioning brain.
It was British Military HQ.
Susan
>
> Ben
>
>
>
"tle_mgr\"
> BadPony wrote:
>
>
>>> Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and
>>> collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
>
>
>
> Not as far as I know. Most of their Jewish collaborators were executed
> by the NAZIs themselves.
>
> The NAZI knew something about duplicity. Even a stopped clock is right
> twice per day.
What about the collabators to kill Jesus Christ?
>
>
>
>>> Were any JEWS jailed for War Crimes and
>>> collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
>
>
>
> Was this possible? Either they escaped, which would have been very
> difficult, and any that did presumably hid their collaborating past.
>
>
>
>>> Then tell me to what extent you think the Soviets
>>> overinflated the Holocaust figures for the areas that
>>> they came to control as part of their black propaganda
>>> wars (like Katyn Forest) against the Nazis. 10%, 30%, 200%??
>
>
>
> If no lies were told in that war, it would have been the first and
> doubtless the last as well.
>
> Your lowest estimate of the number of Jews executed by the NAZIs is two
> million.
>
> Still not very nice people these National Socialists.
>
>
--
Discussion forums for American Liberals, by Liberals:
Sarah Branson
> >>> Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and
> >>> collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
> >
> >
> >
> > Not as far as I know.
> What about the collabators to kill Jesus Christ?
As far as I know, no one over age 1900 has ever been - killed or
anything else, by anyone.
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
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Riain
""tle_mgr\"" <"\"tle_mgr\\\""@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:D6idnfBKgL6...@comcast.com...
Riain
"Sarah Branson" <sarah....@informationcommissioner.gov.uk> wrote in message news:xn0dy21z...@127.0.0.1...
BadPony
hunchback of frightening appearance was a Sanhedrin-authored fake??
Sarah Branson
> Hard to kill someone who never
> existed in the first place...
I thought for one moment you were going to say no one could possibly
have killed Jesus Christ. As Jesus Christ is supposed to be God He is
capable of rescuing Himself, so it must have been suicide.
But you didn't say that. Sorry.
Sarah Branson
> Jesus never existed --- and even if by chance
> he did Jews did not kill him, ROMANS did as
> they did with many Jews at that time.
No they didn't. Jesus Christ continued living, so He didn't die, so no
one killed Him.
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
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BadPony
nature against the Jewish religion, they get hid with charges and
all sorts of stuff from anti-defamation league etc etc etc,
whereas it seems Jewish people get carte blanche on making hurtful
and utterly derogatory statements about the Christian religion
without fear of come-uppance? Mabye Christians need to have a similar
setup and just sue people who make such remarks back to the
stone age?
Sarah Branson
> What does strike me is that if non-Jews make
> remarks of a derogatory nature against the
> Jewish religion, they get hid with charges
> and all sorts of stuff from anti-defamation
> league etc etc etc,
>
> whereas it seems Jewish people get carte blanche on
> making hurtful and utterly derogatory statements
> about the Christian religion without fear of come-uppance?
One might even be tempted to accuse Jews of milking the holocaust, if
that were not a racist thing to say.
Trouble is Christians cannot go to war with Jews, the way they have
with Muslims, in order to prove the Christian invisible friend is more
powerful than the Jewish invisible friend, because the Jewish sky pixie
is supposed to be the same as the Christian.
BadPony
amuse Him to see people being hateful to one another,
unless one group really does have a get out of jail free pass.
That seems unlikely historically and some Christians would
argue that since the crucifixion of Christ, the Jews have
been paying and will pay until they repent.
Sarah Branson
> That seems unlikely historically and some Christians
> would argue that since the crucifixion of Christ, the
> Jews have been paying and will pay until they repent.
It's not baseless, but it's not a mainstream Christian argument either.
A lot of so called Acts of God are doubtless owing directly to
malicious acts of man, blaming one's invisible friend for acts of man,
strikes me as scapegoatism.
BadPony
who started chatting to me said he thought that the Tsunami
was justified because God was unhappy with all the people
going out there for sex tourism and child sex. That's
a pretty stark view, but not uncommon in some circles.
Sarah Branson
> Well, at a restaurant some weeks ago, some
> fundamentalist who started chatting to me
> said he thought that the Tsunami was justified
> because God was unhappy with all the people
> going out there for sex tourism and child sex.
> That's a pretty stark view, but not uncommon
> in some circles.
You don't think George W. Bush is Allah's revenge?
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Bush is the AntiChrist!!
> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Were any JEWS executed for War Crimes and
>>>>>collaborating with the Nazis AFTER WWII?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Not as far as I know.
>
>
>>What about the collabators to kill Jesus Christ?
>
>
>
> As far as I know, no one over age 1900 has ever been - killed or
> anything else, by anyone.
>
>
>
Your point is....?
Riain
"Sarah Branson" <sarah....@informationcommissioner.gov.uk> wrote in message news:xn0dy2mc...@127.0.0.1...
Riain
Well paybacks are HELL!
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:-JydnXRy5Pe...@comcast.com...
: What does strike me is that if non-Jews make remarks of a derogatory
: >
: >
Riain
"Sarah Branson" <sarah....@informationcommissioner.gov.uk> wrote in message news:xn0dy2p6...@127.0.0.1...
BadPony
Sarah Branson wrote:
> BadPony wrote:
>
>
>>Well, at a restaurant some weeks ago, some
>>fundamentalist who started chatting to me
>>said he thought that the Tsunami was justified
>>because God was unhappy with all the people
>>going out there for sex tourism and child sex.
>>That's a pretty stark view, but not uncommon
>>in some circles.
>
>
>
> You don't think George W. Bush is Allah's revenge?
Too soon to tell. If Iraq and Afghnistan become democracies,
then it's an improvement.
BadPony
BadPony
me names. You seem to me to be a very angry young man, filled
with Hubris who wouldn't care if a million other people died to
save one of his own. Non-Jews are the REAL "untermensch" in your eyes,
aren't they?
Riain
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:DYydnQIykNQ...@comcast.com...
:I always know that I have hit a nerve when people start calling
Riain
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:DYydnQAykNQ...@comcast.com...
:
:
Riain
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:DYydnQMykNS...@comcast.com...
: Where did this happen 20 or even 30 years ago?
: > : >
BadPony
don't stare, it's rude and he can't help it...
Riain
"BadPony" <ebc1!@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:gamdne9AVrZ...@comcast.com...
: Alright folks, nothing more to see here, move on,
: > : > : >
BadPony
before they take on a life of their own.
Alan Cossey
"Sarah Branson" <sarah....@informationcommissioner.gov.uk> wrote in
message news:xn0dy2p6...@127.0.0.1...
Usually Christians don't take much notice because often the statements made
are fairly obviously silly.
Alan Cossey
anza...@hotmail.com
news:PcGdnbf3DMu...@comcast.com...
> Since when was socialist leftwing?? As in National SOCIALIST German
> WORKERS Party? Are you mad? The Nazis were leftwing extremists.
Yes, the official name of the Nazi party was National-SOCIALISTS. But
so what? One can choose any name to call himself. Calling oneself
"socilaist" doesn't make one such.
You have to look at what people do not what they call themselves.
If Nazis were LEFT-wing extrtemists, they would have nationalized
industry and other private property and would have arrested
"capitalists". Did they do that? No, quite the opposite. Private
industry prospered under Hitler. Nor did Hitler re-distribut eany land,
did he? He was no socialist.
Instead Nazis exterminated every Communist and Socialist that they
could lay their hands on.
Sarah Branson
> > You don't think George W. Bush is Allah's revenge?
>
> Too soon to tell.
I was thinking George W. Bush might be Allah's on the US.
> If Iraq and Afghnistan become
> democracies, then it's an improvement.
If Iraq becomes a democracy, it'll be a bloody miracle. There's too
much money knocking around, and liberal ideas, like democracy, race and
gender equality, are not popular amongst Arabs and Muslims at the
current time.
News from Afghanistan seems rather sparse at the moment. What that may
be concealing is anyone's guess. Having been screwed by Russia, then
the US, but not much money, Afghanistan could be on the way to
democracy, without the super power help (i.e. greed) not normally
destroys almost everything.
Sarah Branson
> Whatever you say pixie cunt
I'm sorry you feel that way, if you do.
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
BadPony
Germany to settle down into a pattern of behaviour.
Sarah Branson
> Only time will tell. It took years
> for Japan and Germany to settle down
> into a pattern of behaviour.
Then Japan and Germany did well, and Japan is still doing well
(unemployment 4.4%), owing to the victorious Allies banning them from
trading in weapons.
There's a lesson there for someone. You have to be desperate, to call
a foreign unemployment rate of 4.4%, some kind of an economic crisis.
BadPony
involved in the capture of Eichmann, the agent who wasn't
just died.
BadPony
just become Jew-hating Nazis overnight without any rational
reason. Thing is, in order to do so, they had to buy-in to
the story that one of the worst depressions and post-war
economic collapses was brought upon them deliberately
by people within their own borders. So...
Has anyone ever done any empirical background research into the Nazi
claim that Germany was sold down the river by Jewish bankers/financiers
during WWI in collusion with American Jewish bankers/financiers and
that the same alleged cabal brought Germany to total collapse and
actually profited from it while the German populace starved and
became ripe for the Nazi's and their agenda?
(No barking lunatics please)