Looking Jewish and Jewish names
Mitchell Kotler
Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or Paul. (Christopher
is obvious). Is it because these names have become famous through the teachings of The New
Testament?
Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
What do Jews think of The New Testament? Is it considered a big lie or just a nice
story about a crazy man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
E-mail welcome. Thanks.
David F. Skoll
mk56...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>Why are there such things as typical Jewish names, such as Goldberg or Cohen.
>Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
Oy! Mr. Dave Smith is Ottawa's most famous kosher caterer! And the Smith
brothers own Nate's Deli and the Place Next Door.
And there may be plenty of Jewish "Johnsons" who were originally
"Yacobsons" but who changed their name because of career or other
reasons. :-(
>Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or Paul.
I know quite a few Jewish Pauls, and if you count Jonathan as "John", there
are quite a few of those.
There ARE "Jewish" names, though. Some of them came about as Jews in
Europe were forced to take family names, rather than the ben/bat system.
Some names came from occupations (Goldsmith); others just sounded
pleasant (Blumberg); and others were made up.
Other Jewish names are Biblical (Yitzhak, David, etc.) and some
modern Jewish surnames are attempts to hearken back to Biblical times
or to show love for Israel (Shamir, Ben Tzion.)
>Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
An Ethiopian Jew doesn't look much like me, and I don't look much like
my wife, who is Jewish although of Chinese ancestry. Jews from the
Middle East tend to look like other Middle Easterners, and Jews from
Europe can look very "Nordic."
>What do Jews think of The New Testament? Is it considered a big lie
>or just a nice story about a crazy man named Jesus who thought he was
>the messiah.
In general, I'd say that most Jews don't think about the new testament
much. I think it's an interesting story, which has unfortunately
been distorted and misused in the past to cause great suffering to
Jews and Muslims.
--
| | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll | ||||||| | Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _ __ __ _ __ | \\V// | You can tolerate him if you try..."
/ | | |_| | | | | __|__ | -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Arthur S. Kamlet
>Why are there such things as typical Jewish names, such as Goldberg or Cohen.
>Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
For thousands and thousands of years Jews didn't have surnames
per se. Names were first names, often "first name," son (daughter)
of "parent's name." Many names were found in the Hebrew Bible, and
taken from there. When Jews were forced to other countries they
sometimes adopted names common to those countries.
Most Jews also have Hebrew names. Some Jews use their Hebrew
names exclusively.
It was Napoleon Bonaparte who forced Jews to adopt surnames, just
like "real" people:-(
Some surnames are Biblical, such as Cohen or Levy. Others are
contractions and/or combinations of Hebrew names (Katz=Cohen
Tzaddik) while others are adopted much like any other surnames.
In the US many immigrants arrived at Ellis Island and if their
language was not clear the immigration folks assigned them a common
name. So there are quite a few Smiths etc who are Jewish.
>Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or
>Paul. (Christopher is obvious). Is it because these names have
>become famous through the teachings of The New Testament?
Some names are quite Jewish. King Saul's son (1 Samuel) for
example was named Jonathan.
But why is your question phrased so negatively? Would you also ask
why so few Christians are named Muhammed or Singing Bird or Li-Ching
or Yitzchak?
>Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
Tell me what "look Jewish" means? Do you mean they wear hats all
the time and have fringes sticking out from under their shirts? If
so, yes, some people can look Jewish. If not, this sounds to me
like the sort of bigotry a David Duke would employ.
>What do Jews think of The New Testament?
What do Christians think of the Book of Mormon? Of the Koran?
I assume these are all books which are of special significance
to their followers.
>Is it considered a big lie or just a nice story about a crazy
>man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
Let me guess. You studying law, right?
--
Art Kamlet a_s_k...@att.com AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Joel Goldberg
duties, and whose membership is passed through the male line. I'm not sure
about Cohen though.
>Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
The old Jewish lady turns to her seatmate on the bus and says,
"Mister, tell me, are you Jewish?"
"No, I'm not Jewish."
"Mister, are you sure you're not Jewish?"
"Yes lady, I'm sure I'm not Jewish."
"Mister, are you _really_ sure you're not Jewish?"
"All right, yes, I _am_ Jewish!"
"Funny, you don't look it."
A Jewish man is travelling in Japan and happens upon a synagogue. He
goes inside to find that they are in the middle of prayers. He sits
down at the back and joins in. Afterwards, the congregants approach
him and say "You participated so easily, how come you know all our
prayers?" The man replies "Well, I'm Jewish."
"Funny, you don't look it."
Then there's the story about a Jewish student named Joel Goldberg
who was resting on a park bench in Dublin, with a backpack, brand
name Campari, resting beside him as he consulted a "Let's Go"
guidebook. A man sits down on the neighbouring bench and says
"You're an Italian from Rome."
"I'm afraid not"
"You're a Jew from New York"
"I am Jewish, but I'm from Canada."
"It's all the same."
The student, resisting the urge to say "You British always think
so" walks away.
Elie Rosenfeld
|> German/Yiddish names come from many sources. Goldberg is either a name
|> given by a German naming official as a result of a bribe, or perhaps
|> from some small town in eastern Germany that was near a mountain with
|> a gold mine or something. Many Jewish names come from trades, like
|> Schneider (tailor) or Wexler (money changer). Other names are
|> "descent from father/mother" names like Aronson, or Rifkin.
The history of Jewish last names is facinating. They came about in so many
strange ways.
One interesting example: In many towns in Europe, when the government was
making everyone take a last name, the Jews in each town were divided into
four groups. Everyone in the first group became Weiss, everyone in the
second group Schwartz, the third group became Klein, and the fourth Gross.
The government went for simplicity - those words mean White, Black, Small,
and Big! Thus many, many Jews have those last names to this day.
--
Elie Rosenfeld | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore | purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J. | Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800 | - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
Andy
Not necessarily, I'm often able to guess if someone is Jewish based on their
appearence (no, I don't mean "Jewish noses") although I've met a number of
Jews who are blonde, blue eyed and look Swedish and met a number of non-Jews
who look very Jewish and have Jewish names.
seth.r.rosenthal
> Why are there such things as typical Jewish names, such as Goldberg or Cohen.
Cohen, comes from Kohain the High Priest of the Temple. People named
Cohen either have a lineage from the High Priesthood, or got the name
indirectly from that source (like at Ellis Island because Cohen was such
a common Jewish name, the naming guards sometimes gave people that last
name because they couldn't pronounce the Slavic last names they had).
German/Yiddish names come from many sources. Goldberg is either a name
given by a German naming official as a result of a bribe, or perhaps
from some small town in eastern Germany that was near a mountain with
a gold mine or something. Many Jewish names come from trades, like
Schneider (tailor) or Wexler (money changer). Other names are
"descent from father/mother" names like Aronson, or Rifkin.
Names that end in -sky are usually town of origin names like
Krichevsky -from Krichev- or Posnansky -from Posnan- (this name
is the slavic equivalent of the Yiddish Posner). Most Jewish
names have a meaning. Sometimes they are quite helpful in
geneology.
Its actually a very interesting topic.
> Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
>
There are. Schmidt is a Jewish name too, and in the US or England
this gets Anglicized to Smith. Johnson is less common, but one of
the first Jews to settle in the US was a Dutch Ashkenazi Jew named
Solomon Pieterson. Many Jews who came here changed their Jewish
sounding last names to more Anglican sounding ones to avoid anti-semitism.
I have a cousin named Billy Martin whose name would have been Billy
Rosenthal had that not taken place. My Chasanoff (means son of a cantor)
family have branches with name changes to Chase and even Church.
There is a famous poem that was in the Boston Post around WWI, about
this, I don't remember the whole thing but the last line was:
"and the Cabots speak Yiddish, by god!"
> Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or Paul. (Christopher
> is obvious). Is it because these names have become famous through the teachings of The New
> Testament?
>
The New Testament is about as relevant to Jews religiously as
Gullivers Travels. New Testament names get into Jewish kids
usually because of fads in the surrounding society or inter-marriage.
You might even find an odd Chris here and there. Mostly Jewish children
will have Old Testament names that are from Abraham on forward.
If they have a Hebrew and an English name, they may be Tim on the
outside, but Daniel on the inside.
> Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
>
Some say I do, but they really mean I look Eastern European Jewish.
Most Sephardic Jews look more like hispanics. Ethiopian Jews look
more African. Yemenite Jews look pretty Arabic. Jews don't have
a single "look".
> What do Jews think of The New Testament? Is it considered a big lie or just a nice
> story about a crazy man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
>
>
> E-mail welcome. Thanks.
>
> mk56...@longs.lance.colostate.edu
Seth Rosenthal
Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Alexandra Schmidt
>Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
>
>Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or Paul. (Christopher
>is obvious).
Sigh. Is this a common thread? I've known two Jews named Smith and a
Smithline. My father's name is John and his father's name is Timothy.
Go figure. Seriously, I wish people wouldn't make these kinds of
assumptions (then I might get wished 'Merry Christmas a lot less by
well-meaning strangers, which would be fine with me).
But bear in mind that Ellis Island had a not-insubstantial effect on
the names of us Ashkenazim. My maternal grandfather's name was
changed there from Oskar to Sam (ironically, a 'more Jewish' name). I
knew a girl in school whose last name is Evans; apparently her
grandfather wanted to change it from the Germanic 'Stein' to its
Hebrew equivalent 'Eyveyn' and it was mis-heard as Evans.
. . .Alexandra
Victor Miller
to Jonathan). After all John is a direct transliteration of the
Hebrew name Yochanan (Thus, the common nickname Jack). Nevertheless
this name tends to be looked on as "goyish".
Lines: 6
--
Victor S. Miller
Bitnet: VICTOR at WATSON
Internet: vic...@watson.ibm.com
IBM, TJ Watson Research Center
"Great artists steal; lesser artists borrow" Igor Stravinsky
Joel Goldberg
Here's to the city of Boston,
The home of the bean and the cod,
Where the Lodges speak only to Cabots
And the Cabots speak only to God.
When a Jewish family tried to cahnge its name to Cabot, the "real"
Cabots tried to get an injunction preventing them from doing so. The
injunction failed, I believe, but the incident spawned the new last
line:
seth.r.rosenthal
> In article <1992Dec4.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, se...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> |> German/Yiddish names come from many sources. Goldberg is either a name
> |> given by a German naming official as a result of a bribe, or perhaps
> |> from some small town in eastern Germany that was near a mountain with
> |> a gold mine or something. Many Jewish names come from trades, like
> |> Schneider (tailor) or Wexler (money changer). Other names are
> |> "descent from father/mother" names like Aronson, or Rifkin.
>
> The history of Jewish last names is facinating. They came about in so many
> strange ways.
>
> One interesting example: In many towns in Europe, when the government was
> making everyone take a last name, the Jews in each town were divided into
> four groups. Everyone in the first group became Weiss, everyone in the
> second group Schwartz, the third group became Klein, and the fourth Gross.
> The government went for simplicity - those words mean White, Black, Small,
> and Big! Thus many, many Jews have those last names to this day.
Some more good naming stories.
Rothschild - The name means literally "red shield". Jews of the
Judengasse in the Medieval Frankfurt Ghetto became named for the
houses in which they lived. Houses in those days didn't have
numbers yet, and were identified by swinging signs that contained
pictures of various things on them. The Rothschild family came
from the house with the sign of the red shield. That house still
existed, and the sign was in its basement. X-ray studies showed
that it had been originally painted green, so only the timing of
their residence kept them from becoming Gruenschild.
Oliphant - same extraction as Rothschild, Oliphant means elephant
in German. There were no signs of the elephant, but the house
that the Oliphant family traditionally lived in had a sign of
a camel. It is thought they couldn't tell the difference, neither
animal being readily available around medieval Germany.
Shapiro, Spiro, Spira, Sacks, are all names that commemorate
descent from the martyrs of the town of Speier whose Jewish
community was destroyed during the crusades. The remnants and
their descendants took these names as either place of origin
names "Speirer" --> "Spira" --> Spiro -->Shpiro ---...
or as contractions of a Hebrew martyr remembrance (saks).
Feit, Feitel, Feitelson - This name actually originates in
Italy, as Vidal. Italian Jews named Hayyim, took Vidal as
their secular translated names. When a Vidal moved to
Germany, the "V" got pronounced like an "f", the
"d" more like a "t" and we get Fital, which in Yiddish
became Feitel.
Dreifuss - everyone thinks it means "three feet" since it
looks like that German combination, but it is actually a
corruption of the ancient city of Treves' which had
an important Jewish community since Roman times.
The extent to which Dreyfus's are all over Europe, shows
how far the ancient German settlements were dispersed.
In Prague in one of the synagogues, when the order to assume
surnames was given, the Jews were assembled, and names were
assigned directly out of the prayerbooks. They then went
to the German naming officials, and sometimes were able to
get through with Hebrew names. The man in the first seat,
got the name Baruch, and his descendant Bernard still had
that last name.
Benzion Kaganoff's book on Jewish names is a great source
to look up what various Jewish names mean.
Rob Strom
|> But bear in mind that Ellis Island had a not-insubstantial effect on
|> the names of us Ashkenazim. My maternal grandfather's name was
|> changed there from Oskar to Sam (ironically, a 'more Jewish' name). I
|> knew a girl in school whose last name is Evans; apparently her
|> grandfather wanted to change it from the Germanic 'Stein' to its
|> Hebrew equivalent 'Eyveyn' and it was mis-heard as Evans.
|>
I had a friend whose girlfriend was originally named
Moszkowitz. The girl's family changed their name from
Moszkowitz to Moss when they came to America, so it
would sound "less ethnic".
Then the girl married my friend whose name was....
...Moszkowitz.
--
Rob Strom, st...@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
Mitchell Kotler
Tell me what "look Jewish" means? Do you mean they wear hats all
the time and have fringes sticking out from under their shirts? If
so, yes, some people can look Jewish. If not, this sounds to me
like the sort of bigotry a David Duke would employ.
#Can you please just answer the question? We've all heard, one time or another,
from Jews like ourselves, that someone "looks " Jewish. I just wanted to know if
there are any ethnic traits involved in looking Jewish.
>What do Jews think of The New Testament?
What do Christians think of the Book of Mormon? Of the Koran?
#Do you always answer a question with a question?
Since the Old and New Testaments are related( at least to Christians they are),
I just wanted to know how Jews view this "extension" of their Bible. Is it ever mentioned?
Is it totally ignored? Is it taught as being total rubbish, a book of blasphemy?
That's all I wanted to know.
I assume these are all books which are of special significance
to their followers.
>Is it considered a big lie or just a nice story about a crazy
>man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
Let me guess. You studying law, right?
#I don't get your joke. You should relax and not take everything so offensive.
I'm just a Jewish student (Electrical Engineering) with some questions.
What's it like working for AT&T? That's where I'm headed after graduation,
Mitch
Andy
mk56...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) says:
>
>>Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
>
>Tell me what "look Jewish" means? Do you mean they wear hats all
>the time and have fringes sticking out from under their shirts? If
>so, yes, some people can look Jewish. If not, this sounds to me
>like the sort of bigotry a David Duke would employ.
>
>another
>from Jews like ourselves, that someone "looks " Jewish. I just wanted to know
>if
>there are any ethnic traits involved in looking Jewish.
>
>>What do Jews think of The New Testament?
>What do Christians think of the Book of Mormon? Of the Koran?
>
>
>#Do you always answer a question with a question?
>Since the Old and New Testaments are related( at least to Christians they
>are),
>eve
>mentioned?
>Is it totally ignored? Is it taught as being total rubbish, a book of
>blasphemy?
>That's all I wanted to know.
>
>
>I assume these are all books which are of special significance
>to their followers.
>
>>Is it considered a big lie or just a nice story about a crazy
>>man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
>
>Let me guess. You studying law, right?
>
>offensive
>I'm just a Jewish student (Electrical Engineering) with some questions.
>What's it like working for AT&T? That's where I'm headed after graduation,
>
> Mitch
Don't be so sure, Art Kamlet is head of hiring:)
Andrew M. Solovay
to more Ashkenazic ones, so they'd fit in better in America's
(predominately Ashkenazi) community. I have one friend whose
grandfather's name was Usadi, but when the grandfather moved
here, he changed his name to "Levy". As it happens, this man
*wasn't* a Levi, so my friend had to explain the whole thing at
shul after shul before the second Aliyah and before duchening,
when people kept trying to foist a Levi's honors on him.
He ended up changing his name back to Yusadi when he got married.
--
Andrew M. Solovay
"Of course you realize this means war."
--- Bugs Bunny
Herbert Kranzer
The poem is not quite correctly quoted: it is the Lowells, not the
Lodges, who speak only to the Cabots. And how times have changed...
I know a family of "real" Cabot Lowells (no longer in Boston, but
from the genuine stock nevertheless) who are also "really" Jewish
(because their mother is).
Herb Kranzer
kra...@adx.adelphi.edu
karen lee givon
>>Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
>
>Tell me what "look Jewish" means? Do you mean they wear hats all
>the time and have fringes sticking out from under their shirts? If
>so, yes, some people can look Jewish. If not, this sounds to me
>like the sort of bigotry a David Duke would employ.
>
>#Can you please just answer the question? We've all heard, one time or another,
>from Jews like ourselves, that someone "looks " Jewish. I just wanted to know if
>there are any ethnic traits involved in looking Jewish.
I think everyone who responded to your question did answer it. NO there
are no ethnic traits involved in looking Jewish. There are Jews in every
region of the world. Arab Jews look like Arabs. African Jews look like
Africans. Eastern European Jews look Eastern European. That one is the
stereotype in this country because most Jews in this country are
Ashkenazi. That doesn't mean it's correct to say that we all look like
this. I'm an ethnically Polish Jew but many Arabs have asked if I'm
Arab.
>>What do Jews think of The New Testament?
>What do Christians think of the Book of Mormon? Of the Koran?
>
>
>#Do you always answer a question with a question?
>Since the Old and New Testaments are related( at least to Christians they are),
>I just wanted to know how Jews view this "extension" of their Bible. Is it ever mentioned?
>Is it totally ignored? Is it taught as being total rubbish, a book of blasphemy?
>That's all I wanted to know.
I've never heard it referred to as blasphemous. I'm not sure how all
Jews view it, but I just simply don't believe in it. That doesn't mean
that I call it rubbish, I do my best not to insult other religions.
I also do not ignore it because it does exist whether I believe in it or
not.
>
[rest deleted]
-Keren
C
Hap Freiberg
>The history of Jewish last names is facinating. They came about in so many
>strange ways.
>
>One interesting example: In many towns in Europe, when the government was
>making everyone take a last name, the Jews in each town were divided into
>four groups. Everyone in the first group became Weiss, everyone in the
>second group Schwartz, the third group became Klein, and the fourth Gross.
>The government went for simplicity - those words mean White, Black, Small,
>and Big! Thus many, many Jews have those last names to this day.
>--
My great-grandfather would tell my father that when the honcho
of Freiburg (Saxony?),Germany decided that his Jewish population
should have "normal" last names, the Jews took the name FreibERG.
ALL OF 'EM.....My great-grandfather then adds that soon after this
his father packed up the family and headed for the New World.
Hap
lm...@garnet.berkeley.edu
Along the lines of Jewish names:
My mother's family name is Sherwood, changed from Shargrovsky
when her father came to LA from London in the twenties, so
he could get work in the studios (or at least that's one version
of the story). I know that there is a
town in the former S.U. by the name of Shargarad, in fact, a
friend of mine visited there and there is a Jewish community.
Would the name Shargrovsky indicate that at one
time the family lived in that town? My grandfather's family
didn't live there before they took the boat for England around
1900, but there's no record of where they might have been in
previous generations.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Leslie
adam.v.reed
> Mostly Jewish children
> will have Old Testament names that are from Abraham on forward.
Depends on local minhag. Polish Jews have been known to favor
pre-Abrahamic names, such as Adam, Chava, Seth, Chanoch, Noah,
Yapheth, Shem, Naamah, Abel etc. After the Shoah, with more
late relatives than children to name them after, many sons of
survivors were named Adam or Noah, symbolizing common ancestors.
Adam_...@ATT.com
Stan Krieger
>Depends on local minhag. Polish Jews have been known to favor
>pre-Abrahamic names, such as Adam, Chava, Seth, Chanoch, Noah,
>Yapheth, Shem, Naamah, Abel etc. After the Shoah, with more
>late relatives than children to name them after, many sons of
>survivors were named Adam or Noah, symbolizing common ancestors.
How widespread is this custom? In my family I don't see it.
Of the Biblical names in my family-
1. Mine (and paternal grandfather): Shlomo Mordchai
2. My dad's: Yonah Yehuda
3. My brother's (and great-grandfather's): Avraham Moshe
4. My mother's: Zipporah
5. My maternal grandfather: Pinchas
6. Dad's sisters: Chana and Leah
In case there are any possible relatives of mine out there, my parents
and grandparents came from Mishnitz; I believe that nearby cities are
Ostrelanka and Lomza.
--
Stan Krieger All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
s...@usl.com
olga from the volga
> Why are there such things as typical Jewish names, such as Goldberg or Cohen.
> Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
>
My last name is Johnson.
> Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or Paul. (
> is obvious). Is it because these names have become famous through the teachi
> Testament?
One of my friends in school was John Cohen!
>
> Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
>
I don't really know. Do you think the Ethiopian Jews "look" Jewish?
Or only people with dark hair, dark eyes and big noses??? Or members
of my family, who are blond and blue eyed?
> What do Jews think of The New Testament? Is it considered a big lie or just
> story about a crazy man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
>
>
You're joking, right?
seth.r.rosenthal
> In article <1992Dec4.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, se...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> > In article <Dec04.033...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, mk56...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
> > Mostly Jewish children
> > will have Old Testament names that are from Abraham on forward.
>
> Depends on local minhag. Polish Jews have been known to favor
> pre-Abrahamic names, such as Adam, Chava, Seth, Chanoch, Noah,
> Yapheth, Shem, Naamah, Abel etc. After the Shoah, with more
> late relatives than children to name them after, many sons of
> survivors were named Adam or Noah, symbolizing common ancestors.
>
Adam includes my name in the list, I assume as part of his point,
which may well be true. In my case Seth is my English name,
my sacred name is Shmuel, at least in part because Seth was
pre-abrahamic. Also because both grandfathers were Samuel
and only one had passed away at my birth.
Seth Rosenthal
olga from the volga
[ stuff deleted]
> In Prague in one of the synagogues, when the order to assume
> surnames was given, the Jews were assembled, and names were
> assigned directly out of the prayerbooks. They then went
> to the German naming officials, and sometimes were able to
> get through with Hebrew names. The man in the first seat,
> got the name Baruch, and his descendant Bernard still had
> that last name.
>
> Benzion Kaganoff's book on Jewish names is a great source
> to look up what various Jewish names mean.
>
> Seth Rosenthal
>
> Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
All this is very interesting. Maybe you can tell me how my family
got the name "Kapustin" a very typical Russian name, derived from the
work cabbage :-) Its so common its like "Smith"
samuel.saal
mk56...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>Why are there such things as typical Jewish names, such as Goldberg or Cohen.
>Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
Possibly a JUL (Jewish Urban Legend), but there was Jew named Shawn
Ferguson. When he came through Ellis Island and was asked his name, he
was so nervous he said "Oy! Shein fergessen!" (I forget!) and the clerk
thought that was his name.
>Why is it not common to find a Jewish person named John, Timothy, or Paul. (Christopher
>is obvious). Is it because these names have become famous through the teachings of The New
>Testament?
I know several Jewish Tims, Pauls, Jons and one or two Johns.
>Is it possible that someone can "look" Jewish? Why or why not?
Let's see, Ethiopian Jews look little like European ones who look little
like those from Iran who look little like.... And that is even if you
could assume that two Ethiopian (or Iranian or ....) Jews look alike.
>What do Jews think of The New Testament? Is it considered a big lie or just a nice
>story about a crazy man named Jesus who thought he was the messiah.
Well, IMnot soHO, the Christian Bible is a great Bible for Christians.
For Jews, it ranks way up there with "Treasure Island," "Lolita," and
other great fictional literature of the Western World.
--
Sam Saal kingfish!saal OR sa...@kingfish.att.com
Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
DWT
<1992Dec4.1...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>:
| A Jewish man is travelling in Japan and happens upon a synagogue. He
| goes inside to find that they are in the middle of prayers. He sits
| down at the back and joins in. Afterwards, the congregants approach
| him and say "You participated so easily, how come you know all our
| prayers?" The man replies "Well, I'm Jewish."
| "Funny, you don't look it."
Here's another oldie:
Martian #1: Excuse me, but have we met before?
Martian #2: No, I don't think so.
Martian #1: Are you sure? My name is 2,807,230,449.
Martian #2: Sorry, doesn't sound familiar, but it's nice to meet you now,
2,807,230,449. I'm 2,898,031,798.
Martian #1: That's funny. You don't *look* Jewish.
David W. Tamkin Box 59297 Northtown Station, Illinois 60659-0297
dat...@ddsw1.mcs.com CompuServe: 73720,1570 MCI Mail: 426-1818
Mark Steinberger
In article <Dec04.033...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
mk56...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>Why are there such things as typical Jewish names, such as Goldberg or Cohen.
>Why aren't there any Jewish Johnsons or Smiths.
Ah, but there are. I went to high school with a Jewish woman named
Smith.
This reminds me of an old joke. There is a company, Cohen and Margolis,
owned by the individuals named. Cohen then changed his name to Smith,
in hopes that business would improve. It did.
So Margolis changed _his_ name to Smith, too. As Smith and Smith, they
did a great business. But whenever someone called and asked to speak
to Mr. Smith, the receptionist replied, "Which one, Cohen or Margolis?"
--Mark
DWT
<1992Dec4.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>:
| Shapiro, Spiro, Spira, Sacks, are all names that commemorate
| descent from the martyrs of the town of Speier whose Jewish
| community was destroyed during the crusades. The remnants and
| their descendants took these names as either place of origin
| names "Speirer" --> "Spira" --> Spiro -->Shpiro ---...
| or as contractions of a Hebrew martyr remembrance (saks).
Odd: I'd always figured that Shapiro and Shapira came from words for
"sapphire," just as Rubenstein is another jewel name (ruby -- in fact,
the same mineral).
Then again I knew a fellow named Weiss who insisted that it came from German
,,weissen'' [to know] and that some ancestor of his must have been renowned
for his learning, so I called him Lavan for the rest of our acquaintance.
(I'd done that before: a fellow named Blumenthal made a bad pun, so I took to
calling him "Valley of the Dahlias." That was back when Jacqueline Susann
was still alive and most people we knew had heard of her work, so people got
the pun.)
| Dreifuss - everyone thinks it means "three feet" since it
| looks like that German combination, but it is actually a
| corruption of the ancient city of Treves' which had
| an important Jewish community since Roman times.
| The extent to which Dreyfus's are all over Europe, shows
| how far the ancient German settlements were dispersed.
That is highly questionable, as the German name for Treves is Trier.
| In Prague in one of the synagogues, when the order to assume
| surnames was given, the Jews were assembled, and names were
| assigned directly out of the prayerbooks. They then went
| to the German naming officials, and sometimes were able to
| get through with Hebrew names. The man in the first seat,
| got the name Baruch, and his descendant Bernard still had
| that last name.
So the men in the third and fourth seats were given Shemot as their family
names? Uh huh. So why are there Anglo-Saxons named "Blessing"?
As for my own family name, note my logname. I said I'd climb it and grab
onto its fronds. (Song of Songs 7:9)
seth.r.rosenthal
Isn't Brian Blessed the actor Jewish?
> As for my own family name, note my logname. I said I'd climb it and grab
> onto its fronds. (Song of Songs 7:9)
>
> David W. Tamkin Box 59297 Northtown Station, Illinois 60659-0297
> dat...@ddsw1.mcs.com CompuServe: 73720,1570 MCI Mail: 426-1818
Rosenthal is a bribe name, by the way. Pay a good bribe to a German
naming official, get a pretty sounding German name, be cheap about
it and take your chances. There is a Dutch town named Roosendaal,
but I don't think their is any German-Polish place called Rosenthal.
Actually, I got a lot of mail about these. Let me make some caveats.
The source for these is Rabbi Benzion Kaganoff's "Dictionary of
Jewish Names and Their Meanings". I didn't mean to say that these
are the only derivations for these names. Most Jewish names
have multiple derivations, and usually family traditions need
to be used to isolate which derivations are correct. Sacks is
a prime example. Most of the sources he uses are German from
the mid to late 19th century. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone
ever did a study on Russian Jewish names. I have a few I'm interested
in I'd like to get more information on.
Having said that, I believe Dreifuss has no other derivations,
and I do think that this is the accepted derivation of the name.
I'm not sure why linguistically Treves-Trier would have used
the Treves form. Perhaps that is the accepted French version?
I also want to point out that having a certain name with either
a famous origin or a famous person who also held that name,
is no guarantee that you are either Sephardic in origin,
or related to the famous person. Not all Horowitz's
are related to the famous rabbi, and not all Luria's descend
from Kabbalists. People took on famous names like Rothschild,
Luria, Horowitz, Isserles, etc. in honor of their famous
origins, or in hope of getting good luck in business as a result.
Real Rappoports who descend from Rafa di Oporto should be
Kohanim, for instance, and not all Rappoports are.
If you have a family tradition that you are descended from
David Kimchi, this is more likely to be true than if your
last name is Radak (which can have other derivations).
Seth Rosenthal
Rick Turkel
(Mark Steinberger) writes:
|>
|> This reminds me of an old joke. There is a company, Cohen and Margolis,
|> owned by the individuals named. Cohen then changed his name to Smith,
|> in hopes that business would improve. It did.
|>
|> So Margolis changed _his_ name to Smith, too. As Smith and Smith, they
|> did a great business. But whenever someone called and asked to speak
|> to Mr. Smith, the receptionist replied, "Which one, Cohen or Margolis?"
|>
|>
|> --Mark
This joke was originally told about a Jewish restaurant on Second Avenue in
New York by the name of Moskowitz and Lupowitz (alas, long out of business).
--
Rick Turkel (___ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___
(rm...@cas.org) ) | | \ ) |/ \ | | | \_) |
(rm...@cas.bitnet) / | _| __)/ | __) | ___|_ | _( \ |
Rich or poor, it's good to have money. |
DWT
<1992Dec4.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, including this:
R> Dreifuss - everyone thinks it means "three feet" since it
R> looks like that German combination, but it is actually a
R> corruption of the ancient city of Treves' which had
R> an important Jewish community since Roman times.
R> The extent to which Dreyfus's are all over Europe, shows
R> how far the ancient German settlements were dispersed.
In <ByxBo...@ddsw1.mcs.com> I replied skeptically:
T> That is highly questionable, as the German name for Treves is Trier.
I must retract that. It appears that the city has two names in German:
,,Trier'' and ,,Treves''. The surname Dreyfus[s] could easily have derived
from applying a Yiddish accent to the German rendering of the the latter. It
is called Treves (grave over the first e) in French but I had thought that it
was strictly Trier in German.
If we in metropolitan Chicago can call one of our southwestern suburbs both
"Argo" and "Summit", the Germans can have two names for Trier.
Sorry for the misinformation and for the conclusion I drew from it.
John R. Gersh
writes
>I've always wondered about the avoidance of the names John (as opposed
>to Jonathan). After all John is a direct transliteration of the
>Hebrew name Yochanan (Thus, the common nickname Jack). Nevertheless
>this name tends to be looked on as "goyish".
I've never noticed any avoidance. :-)!
- John Gersh
(Yochanan ben Aaron ben Shlomo)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Gersh ge...@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
Johns Hopkins Rd., Laurel, MD 20723 (301) 953-5503
DWT
<1992Dec5.0...@netcom.com>:
| Also, a lot of Sephardim who moved to America changed their names
| to more Ashkenazic ones, so they'd fit in better in America's
| (predominately Ashkenazi) community.
A similar practice was that of many Eastern European Jews who took German-
sounding (or in some cases, what they thought were German-sounding) names
upon coming to the United States because they figured or heard that among
Jews in the USA those from Germany had it the best. Particularly curious
are manglings of "Deutsch" that some of them picked for surnames.
[Meanwhile, my Prussian ancestors, who considered themselves German and spoke
German, had a Polish surname because of border shifts. My cousins bear that
name to this day.]
Bob Blackshaw
>se...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
Well, it certainly doesn't explain your name, but many people in this
country have strange anglicized versions of their original surnames
due to the inability of the immigration officials at Ellis Island to
render them properly in the english alphabet. (Sheesh, that's not a
sentence, its a paragraph - sorry).
>ol...@csiatl.gwinnett.com
>YOW!
Bob.
Art Yaffe
descent and his family. On the wall was a family photo of his brother-in-law
and sister-in-law, who lived at the time near Dallas. His children are 1/2 Filipina
and their Texan cousins are 1/2 Chinese.
I returned to Boston the next Monday and opened an invitation to the Bat Mitzvah
of Lisa Mi Yung Sxxxxxx <who deserves some privacy>. All of the aforementioned
children must look Jewish, because they _are_ Jewish.
Intermarriage is not the best thing that ever happens to us, but clearly it isn't all
bad. Nearly _everyone_ now has a Jewish relative :-), and it is getting harder and harder
to tell us apart by our appearance.
---
**********************************
Arthur G. Yaffe
Internet: ya...@icd.teradyne.com
**********************************