Was Anne Frank's Diary Forged?
Anonymous
The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that portions of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections must have been added subsequently.
Honest truth
I did a netsearch "ann frank ballpoint"
I got
About 43,200 results (0.29 seconds)
The first response will do showing you did not bother checking.
Also check this site out
http://www.nizkor.org/
The cynical truth comes to us by way of an obscure extremist group, which
boasts:
"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."
--
About us
The Palestinian Zionist Organization is:
Against the lying and deceitfull activities of the terroristic Palestinian
Government led by Hamas and Fatah.
Against the lies that the Palestinians show the world media so the world
ALWAYS blames Israel!
Against the 'Land for Peace' policy forced by the USA and the UN. The only
thing that Israel receives in return for land are rockets send by Hamas and
Fatah. 'Land for Peace' is one big Palestinian lie!
Against a Palestinian State. This Palestinian State will become the most
terroristic state in the world! Official Hamas documents show that they
will only use every 'new inch of land' to destroy the nation of Israel.
Politics does not change the hearts of people!
Against the Palestinian child abuse by Hamas and Fatah who turn children
into suicide bombers.
Against the division of Jerusalem. The Palestinians will only use their
part of Jerusalem to terrorize the Jewish part of Jerusalem.
Eugene Holman
<cri...@ecn.org> wrote:
Some parts were edited, as is natural with a debutant writer.
Nevertheless, the first version of Anne Frank's diary, *Het Acherhuis*,
appeared in the Netherlands in 1947.
As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpoint_pen
<quote>
<deletions>
L�szl� B�r�, a Hungarian newspaper editor, was frustrated by the amount of
time that he wasted in filling up fountain pens and cleaning up smudged
pages, and the sharp tip of his fountain pen often tore his pages of
newsprint. B�r� had noticed that the type of ink used in newspaper
printing dried quickly, leaving the paper dry and smudge free. He decided
to create a pen using the same type of ink. Since, when tried, this
viscous ink would not flow into a regular fountain pen nib, B�r�, with the
help of his brother George, a chemist, began to work on designing new
types of pens. B�r� fitted this pen with a tiny ball in its tip that was
free to turn in a socket. As the pen moved along the paper, the ball
rotated, picking up ink from the ink cartridge and leaving it on the
paper. B�r� filed a British patent on 15 June 1938.
Earlier pens leaked or clogged due to improper viscosity of the ink, and
depended on gravity to deliver the ink to the ball. Depending on gravity
caused difficulties with the flow and required that the pen be held nearly
vertically. The Biro pen both pressurized the ink column and used
capillary action for ink delivery, solving the flow problems.
In 1940 the B�r� brothers and a friend, Juan Jorge Meyne, moved to
Argentina fleeing Nazi Germany and on June 10, filed another patent, and
formed B�r� Pens of Argentina. The pen was sold in Argentina under the
Birome brand (portmanteau of B�r� and Meyne), which is how ballpoint pens
are still known in that country. L�szl� was known in Argentina as Ladislao
Jos� B�r�. This new design was licensed by the British, who produced ball
point pens for RAF aircrew as the Biro, who found they worked much better
than fountain pens at high altitude, as fountain pens were prone to
ink-leakage due to the decreased atmospheric pressure.
<deletions>
</quote>
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> In article <2010051606172...@www.ecn.org>, Anonymous
> <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:
>
>> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the
> manuscript was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt,
> Germany's "FBI"] for examination.
>>
>> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose
> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
>>
>> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that
> portions of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint
> pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections
> must have been added subsequently.
>
> Some parts were edited, as is natural with a debutant writer.
> Nevertheless, the first version of Anne Frank's diary, *Het Acherhuis*,
> appeared in the Netherlands in 1947.
>
> As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
Doubtful very doubtful.... It seems to me ballpoints were only coming into
wide-scale usage in the early 1950's. ...Some twelve years after the dates
attributed to Frank's journal.
I think whether they existed or not is not a true litmus test here. Whether
they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply. The
ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:
>
>> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the
> manuscript was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt,
> Germany's "FBI"] for examination.
>>
>> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose
> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
>>
>> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that
> portions of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint
> pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections
> must have been added subsequently.
>
> Some parts were edited, as is natural with a debutant writer.
> Nevertheless, the first version of Anne Frank's diary, *Het Acherhuis*,
> appeared in the Netherlands in 1947.
>
> As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
>
History of the Ballpoint (your Wiki ref.):
L�szl� B�r�, a Hungarian newspaper editor, was frustrated by the amount of
time that he wasted in filling up fountain pens and cleaning up smudged
pages, and the sharp tip of his fountain pen often tore his pages of
newsprint. B�r� had noticed that the type of ink used in newspaper printing
dried quickly, leaving the paper dry and smudge free. He decided to create a
pen using the same type of ink. Since, when tried, this viscous ink would
not flow into a regular fountain pen nib, B�r�, with the help of his brother
George, a chemist, began to work on designing new types of pens. B�r� fitted
this pen with a tiny ball in its tip that was free to turn in a socket. As
the pen moved along the paper, the ball rotated, picking up ink from the ink
cartridge and leaving it on the paper. B�r� filed a British patent on 15
June 1938.
Note: Earlier pens leaked or clogged due to improper viscosity of the ink,
and depended on gravity to deliver the ink to the ball. Depending on gravity
caused difficulties with the flow and required that the pen be held nearly
vertically. The Biro pen both pressurized the ink column and used capillary
action for ink delivery, solving the flow problems.
In 1940 the B�r� brothers and a friend, Juan Jorge Meyne, moved to Argentina
fleeing Nazi Germany and on June 10, filed another patent, and formed B�r�
Pens of Argentina. The pen was sold in Argentina under the Birome brand
(portmanteau of B�r� and Meyne), which is how ballpoint pens are still known
in that country. L�szl� was known in Argentina as Ladislao Jos� B�r�.
This new design was licensed by the British, who produced ball point pens
for RAF aircrew as the Biro, who found they worked much better than fountain
pens at high altitude, as fountain pens were prone to ink-leakage due to the
decreased atmospheric pressure.
1950s:
Eversharp, a maker of mechanical pencils teamed up with Eberhard-Faber in
May 1945 to license the design for sales in the United States. At about the
same time a U.S. businessman, Milton Reynolds saw a Biro pen in a store in
Buenos Aires. He purchased several samples and returned to the U.S. to found
the Reynolds International Pen Company, producing the Biro design without
license as the Reynolds Rocket. He managed to beat Eversharp to market in
late 1945; the first ballpoint pens went on sale at Gimbels department store
in New York City on 29 October 1945 for US$12.50 each. This pen was widely
known as the rocket in the U.S. into the late 1950s.
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >
> > As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
>
>
> Doubtful very doubtful.... It seems to me ballpoints were only coming into
> wide-scale usage in the early 1950's. ...Some twelve years after the dates
> attributed to Frank's journal.
Nobody argues that Anne Frank's diary was written in ballpoint pen. They
argue that there are certain PARTS, that is to say, emandations
corrections, and editorial comments, that are in ballpoint pen.
> I think whether they existed or not is not a true litmus test here. Whether
> they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
> Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
> availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply.
She was a privileged kid living above an office, so she might well have
had access to a ballpoint pen. They were invented before the war, and her
dad was in the import/export business. Her dad had to pay off the people
in the office who were hiding them, so he might very well have come across
a spare ballpoint pen.
> The
> ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
Unh, no. The poor kid was living in hiding with little to do. She rewrote
her diary and would have made use of developments in writing technology if
they were available to her. In any case, nobody serious claims that the
diary was written in ballpoint pen, the claim is that PARTS of it, as in
editorial emandation, are in ballpoint pen.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Jason P
"Honest truth" <Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
news:1v6a4oa715l8i$.4uwrt9o2i4z6$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 08:17:26 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous wrote:
>
>> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the manuscript
>> was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt, Germany's
>> "FBI"] for examination.
>>
>> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose
>> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
>>
>> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that portions
>> of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were
>> not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections must have
>> been added subsequently.
>
> I did a netsearch "ann frank ballpoint"
>
> I got
> About 43,200 results (0.29 seconds)
>
>
> The first response will do showing you did not bother checking.
>
> Also check this site out
> http://www.nizkor.org/
>
> The cynical truth comes to us by way of an obscure extremist group, which
> boasts:
> "The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
> National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."
>
>
That's your sad THEORY...
The real purpose is to shed light on the Judaic distortions of fact, since
the end of WW-II, and to quell the lies spread for the benefit of Zionistic
expansion in the Middle East.
It is also to show that the "Holocaust" [tm] did not only happen to Jews
alone.
Many acts of genocide have happened -- before and since the Nazis of
WW-II -- the Jews are not as unique as they would have everyone believe.
Basically, the whole idea of the "Holocaust" [tm] (happening only to Jews)
is just a form of (Eastern European) Jewish whining, which is characteristic
to these Eastern European groups now calling themselves real Jews.
Revising accepted historic distortions is not about promoting Nazism --
which is an evil movement. It's about stopping the whining and the lies of
Judaic propaganda that lend support to the apartheid, racist, state of
Israel.
Jason P
They didn't work. The 1950s and practical modifications had to come first.
Spare...? Hahahahaha... get real! They were VERY expensive, until reinvented
(engineering modifications) by Eberhard-Faber in 1945 (USA). Like those V-2
rockets they were almost useless; it took American ingenuity to made
esoteric German inventions of the 1930-40s work for the masses.
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
>
> They didn't work. The 1950s and practical modifications had to come first.
> Spare...? Hahahahaha... get real! They were VERY expensive, until reinvented
> (engineering modifications) by Eberhard-Faber in 1945 (USA). Like those V-2
> rockets they were almost useless; it took American ingenuity to made
> esoteric German
Biro was a Hungarian.
> inventions of the 1930-40s work for the masses.
Working ballpoint pen or not, the first edition of Anne Frank's diary.
'Het Acherhuis*, was published in the Netherlands in 1947. Deal with it.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> In article <4bf003a2$0$3698$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se>, "Jason P"
> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <deletions>
>>
>> They didn't work. The 1950s and practical modifications had to come
>> first.
>> Spare...? Hahahahaha... get real! They were VERY expensive, until
>> reinvented
>> (engineering modifications) by Eberhard-Faber in 1945 (USA). Like those
>> V-2
>> rockets they were almost useless; it took American ingenuity to made
>> esoteric German
>
> Biro was a Hungarian.
>
>> inventions of the 1930-40s work for the masses.
>
> Working ballpoint pen or not, the first edition of Anne Frank's diary.
> 'Het Acherhuis*, was published in the Netherlands in 1947. Deal with it.
>
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman
She died of typhus in March 1945. The "diary" came before that (maybe). Deal
with it!
---
History of the Ballpoint:
(from your Wiki ref.)
L�szl� B�r�, a Hungarian newspaper editor, was frustrated by the amount of
time that he wasted in filling up fountain pens and cleaning up smudged
pages, and the sharp tip of his fountain pen often tore his pages of
newsprint. B�r� had noticed that the type of ink used in newspaper printing
dried quickly, leaving the paper dry and smudge free. He decided to create a
pen using the same type of ink. Since, when tried, this viscous ink would
not flow into a regular fountain pen nib, B�r�, with the help of his brother
George, a chemist, began to work on designing new types of pens. B�r� fitted
this pen with a tiny ball in its tip that was free to turn in a socket. As
the pen moved along the paper, the ball rotated, picking up ink from the ink
cartridge and leaving it on the paper. B�r� filed a British patent on 15
June 1938.
Note: Earlier pens leaked or clogged due to improper viscosity of the ink,
and depended on gravity to deliver the ink to the ball. Depending on gravity
caused difficulties with the flow and required that the pen be held nearly
vertically. The Biro pen both pressurized the ink column and used capillary
action for ink delivery, solving the flow problems.
In 1940 the B�r� brothers and a friend, Juan Jorge Meyne, moved to Argentina
fleeing Nazi Germany and on June 10, filed another patent, and formed B�r�
Pens of Argentina. The pen was sold in Argentina under the Birome brand
(portmanteau of B�r� and Meyne), which is how ballpoint pens are still known
in that country. L�szl� was known in Argentina as Ladislao Jos� B�r�.
This new design was licensed by the British, who produced ball point pens
for RAF aircrew as the Biro, who found they worked much better than fountain
pens at high altitude, as fountain pens were prone to ink-leakage due to the
decreased atmospheric pressure.
The 1950s:
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
"In March 1945, a typhus epidemic spread through the camp and killed
approximately 17,000 prisoners. Witnesses later testified Margot fell from
her bunk in her weakened state and was killed by the shock, and a few days
later Anne died. They state this occurred a few weeks before the camp was
liberated by British troops on 15 April 1945, although the exact dates were
not recorded. After liberation, the camp was burned in an effort to prevent
further spread of disease, and Anne and Margot were buried in a mass grave,
the exact whereabouts of which is unknown."
-- Wiki
Gee the Allies were doing the same as the Nazis to the disease ridden Jewish
corpses. What a co-winky-dink!
Deal with it.
--
"Why Johnny Ringo! I'll be your 'huckleberry...' say when...!"
--Doc Holiday (in movie "Tombstone") to cowboy-outlaw Johnny Ringo
RJ11
(crap removed)
<quote>
In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation submitted
Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science
Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity.
The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used--
the ink, paper, glue, etc.--and the handwriting and issued a report of
some 270 pages. "The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory
has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne
Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations
that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or
otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted." Furthermore, that "despite
corrections and omissions..._The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ [i.e., the
published version of the diaries] does indeed contain `the essence' of
Anne's writings, and that there are no grounds on which the term
`forgery' can be applied to the work of the editors or publishers of
the book." <1>
1. Anne Frank, _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank:_The_Critical_Edition_,
Prepared by the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation,
edited by David Barnouw and Gerrold Van Der Stroom, (New York,
Doubleday, 1989) p. 166.
</quote>
RJ.
TheZ
complicity in genocide.
They tried to kill the messengers, but still couldn't kill the ideology of
Judaism.
"Jason P" <jas...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:4beff888$0$3695$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se...
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
><deletions>
> She died of typhus in March 1945. The "diary" came before that (maybe). Deal
> with it!
I don't deal with false statements further qualified with "maybe". Anne
Frank's diary, in Dutch, first came out in 1947. Deal with it!
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Bolt Upright
such writing instruments were not generally available in Nazi-occupied
Europe and certainly were not available to fugitive adolescents hiding
in secret rooms in Nazi-occupied Europe. There is *no imaginable way*
that this kid had access to a ball-point pen. Full stop.
Bolt Upright
arrogant top-posts:
> More revisionism from "Jew Haters"� who can't live with the truth of their
> complicity in genocide.
>
Horsefuckingshit. "complicity in genocide" you babble...
Who "hates Jews"?
How can any of us be "complicit" in events that happened before we were
born? I assume that this is yet another attempt to inspire guilt in
people who had no involvement in WWII to extort yet more money for other
people who had no involvement in WWII. If it is not, what is your intent
in posting this obvious lie?
> They tried to kill the messengers, but still couldn't kill the ideology of
> Judaism.
>
>
Who tried to "kill" anyone or anything, you fucking liar?
Bolt Upright
> In article<4beff888$0$3695$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se>, "Jason P"
> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>
>> "Eugene Holman"<hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>
> <deletions>
>
>>> As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
>>>
>>
>> Doubtful very doubtful.... It seems to me ballpoints were only coming into
>> wide-scale usage in the early 1950's. ...Some twelve years after the dates
>> attributed to Frank's journal.
>>
> Nobody argues that Anne Frank's diary was written in ballpoint pen. They
> argue that there are certain PARTS, that is to say, emandations
> corrections, and editorial comments, that are in ballpoint pen.
>
>
>> I think whether they existed or not is not a true litmus test here. Whether
>> they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
>> Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
>> availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply.
>>
> She was a privileged kid living above an office, so she might well have
> had access to a ballpoint pen. They were invented before the war, and her
> dad was in the import/export business. Her dad had to pay off the people
> in the office who were hiding them, so he might very well have come across
> a spare ballpoint pen.
>
Highly improbable. Had Otto Frank found such an instrument, it would
have been far too valuable to give to a teenager to write in her diary.
It probably would have been traded for food to feed these extra mouths
for which there were no ration books.
Bolt Upright
cited, not that I have any use for the "seig heil" crew, whether they
are zionists or krauts. Nazis of any flavour suck bigtime.
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
Maybe she never wrote such a document. Most likely she never even saw a
ballpoint pen. Could be it's another hoax. Maybe the whole idea of the Jew
chauvinistic "Holocaust" is laughable.
Deal with it.
Jason P
"Bolt Upright" <Nob...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dd98b$4bf03deb$cf701d8f$14...@PRIMUS.CA...
Traded for food and some candles to place under a clay pot to keep them warm
in the winter. It's another hoax like the lampshades and the soap stories.
Jason P
Holman is grasping at straws.
I cited first the fact that ballpoints first came from B�r� brothers, and he
conveniently ignored he fact, because he couldn't further his theories based
on my assertions. Now he brings it up, completely in another context, as if
to make his point for Frank's possession of such an instrument. As usual our
dull Holman is blowing more pretentious hot air.
Jason P
"An obscure extremist group" then the quote:
"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."
It's a nice way to turn the topic to his own way of thinking, even though
it's all born on his own "obscure" speculative fantasies and far fetched
ideas. Like most of the pro-Zionist sycophants he's suffering from a severe
form of fungal brain rot.
Kenneth McVay OBC
Yes, in fact, it is. A link is provided which
identifies the group in question.
--
Who is your choice for the Dumbest celebrity? George W. Bush
holds a commanding lead at 28.6%, Kurt Knoll is second at
20.3% & Paris Hilton 3rd with 17.2%. VOTE NOW,
VOTE OFTEN: http://squidoo.com/think-you-are-stupid-eh
Kenneth McVay OBC
Jason P <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
[...]
>in the winter. It's another hoax like the lampshades and the soap stories.
SOAP MADE FROM HUMAN REMAINS
7.10.2006. 10:52:34
The Nazis used human fat to make soap during the Second World War
in a medical academy located in what is now the Polish Baltic
sea port city of Gdansk, Polish war crimes prosecutors confirmed
today.
Officials with Poland's Institute for National Remembrance (IPN)
based their findings on a laboratory analysis of a piece of soap
found in 1945 in the medical academy which was run by German
Professor Rudolf Spanner.
A new laboratory analysis of the soap revealed human fat was one
of its components, spokesperson for IPN Paulina Szumera told Deutsche
Presse-Agentur in a telephone interview.
Human remains used to make the soap were believed to have been
brought from Kaliningrad, Bydgoszcz and the Stutthof Nazi German
concentration camp located about 30 km from Gdansk.
The IPN investigation found that the soap in question was used to
clean operating and autopsy rooms.
The piece of soap was used as evidence in the post-WWII Nuremburg
Trials where prominent German Nazis were prosecuted for crimes against
humanity.
At the time, prosecutors lacked the technology to determine
whether the soap contained human tissue.
= 30 =
http://www.ejpress.org/article/11052
Polish study confirms Nazis made soap from human bodies
Updated: 09/Oct/2006 22:14
WARSAW (AFP)--- Poland's Nazi German occupiers used "substances" from the bodies of
concentration camp prisoners to make soap, a study carried out by Poland's National
Remembrance Institute (IPN) to counter the arguments of negationists showed Friday.
"We have determined that, without the shadow of a doubt, soap was produced using
substances obtained from human bodies at the anatomical insitute of the Medical Academy
of Danzig, led by Professor Rudolf Spanner," Paulina Szumera of the IPN told AFP.
Danzig is the German name for the Polish city of Gdansk.
"We launched our investigation to still the voices denying that this ever happened," she
said.
For the IPN probe, Polish scientists studied a bar of soap that was presented as
evidence during the Nuremberg Nazi war crime trials after World War II, that was in the
archives of the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Szumera said.
Polish television station TVN24 cited IPN investigators as saying the bodies of
prisoners at the Nazi concentration camp of Stutthof, in northern Poland, and at Gdansk
municipal jail were used to make the soap.
The bodies of patients at a psychiatric hospital in Gdansk were also used, the
investigators told TVN24.
Several dozen kilogrammes of soap were produced by the Nazis in Gdansk and used to clean
Spanner's laboratory work surfaces, the IPN said.
Almond extract was added to the soap to give it a palatable scent.
Soaps are usually made from fats and oils that react with lye (sodium hydroxide).
Human touch in Nazi soap
Published: Saturday, 7 October, 2006, 10:00 AM Doha Time
WARSAW: Poland?s Nazi German occupiers used ?substances? from the bodies of concentration
camp prisoners to make soap, a study carried out by Poland?s National Remembrance
Institute (IPN) to counter the arguments of negationists showed yesterday.
?We have determined that, without the shadow of a doubt, soap was produced using
substances obtained from human bodies at the anatomical institute of the Medical Academy
of Danzig, led by Professor Rudolf Spanner,? Paulina Szumera of the IPN told AFP.
Danzig is the German name for the Polish city of Gdansk.
?We launched our investigation to still the voices denying that this happened,? she said.
For the IPN probe, Polish scientists studied a bar of soap that was presented as evidence
during the Nuremberg Nazi war crime trials after World War II, that was in the archives
of the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Szumera said.
Polish television station TVN24 cited IPN investigators as saying that the bodies of
prisoners at the Nazi concentration camp of Stutthof, in northern Poland, and at Gdansk
municipal jail were used to make the soap.
Several dozen kilogrammes of soap were produced by the Nazis in Gdansk and used to clean
Spanner?s laboratory work surfaces, the IPN said.
Almond extract was added to the soap to give it a palatable scent.
Soaps are usually made from fats and oils that react with lye (sodium hydroxide). ? AFP
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/soap1.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/soap2.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/soap3.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/ussr-393-middle.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/ussr-393-middle.ref
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/stutthof/soap-photos/ussr-393.jpg
george
> I think whether they existed or not is not a true litmus test here. Whether
> they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
> Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
> availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply. The
> ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
Why do nazis have to lie.
The diary was NOT written in Biro.
The notes by the father (in his hand writing) in biro were attached to
the diary.
The first nazi claim was that there was no such thing as a ballpoint
pen available before or during the WW2.
Wrong and the facts have been pointed out.
However.
A successful businessman would demonstrate his success by the
equipment he has.
A ballpoint pen in the age of stick and fountain pens would go a long
way to demonstrating that.
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
><deletions>
>
> Holman is grasping at straws.
No, I'm not.
>
> I cited first the fact that ballpoints first came from B�r� brothers, and he
> conveniently ignored he fact, because he couldn't further his theories based
> on my assertions. Now he brings it up, completely in another context, as if
> to make his point for Frank's possession of such an instrument. As usual our
> dull Holman is blowing more pretentious hot air.
I never claimed that Anne Frank *had* a ballpoint pen, even though the
fact that it was invented in the late 1930s and her dad was in the
import/export business would have made it possible that she had a higher
likelihood than many housebound teenage girls of the era to have had one.
It is, on the other hand, a fact that small parts of her diary were
written in ballpoint pen, but these are editorial emandations made after
her death and before publication. There is nothing strange or sinister
about this.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
The Peeler
Usenet troll, wrote:
>>>
>> She was a privileged kid living above an office, so she might well have
>> had access to a ballpoint pen. They were invented before the war, and her
>> dad was in the import/export business. Her dad had to pay off the people
>> in the office who were hiding them, so he might very well have come across
>> a spare ballpoint pen.
>>
>
> Highly improbable. Had Otto Frank found such an instrument, it would
> have been far too valuable to give to a teenager to write in her diary.
> It probably would have been traded for food to feed these extra mouths
> for which there were no ration books.
Actually not at all! The family obviously had connections and support and
the issue was not so much money but rather to stay hidden successfully. She
could have been presented with something of a little value (by some loving
parent or supporter) that would give her some joy, was small and useful in
her hideaway.
The Peeler
Of course, of course, Jason Pee! When can we read you first book telling the
world the truth and nothing but the truth? LMAO!
The Peeler
That's right, you suck, Dolt Unright!
The Peeler
Oh yes, there is, Nazitard! As Holman pointed out, she was a priviledged
child. She could have been presented with something of some value that was
small and useful in her hiding place. She could also have owned such pens
from before the time the family went into hiding. Obviously the family was
quite wealthy!
The Peeler
Usenet troll, wrote:
> On 5/16/2010 12:19 PM, The cockZucker lied in yet another of his
> arrogant top-posts:
>> More revisionism from "Jew Haters"� who can't live with the truth of their
>> complicity in genocide.
>>
>
> Horsefuckingshit. "complicity in genocide" you babble...
> Who "hates Jews"?
> How can any of us be "complicit" in events that happened before we were
> born? I assume that this is yet another attempt to inspire guilt in
> people who had no involvement in WWII to extort yet more money for other
> people who had no involvement in WWII. If it is not, what is your intent
> in posting this obvious lie?
That's easy to answer, Dolt Unright: perhaps to show you and the likes of
you up for the sick Nazi pigs that are trolling these groups? Any other
suggestion? I guess not! <G>
The Peeler
trolls around, wrote:
<snip most of the usual inane pretentious blather>
> As usual our dull Holman is blowing more pretentious hot air.
Now, if THAT isn't again a PERFECT description of your sick pretentious self
and your endless "baffle them with bullshit" tactics, Jason Pee! LOL
Bolt Upright
as a link to stormfront or a satanist site would have. You're jokong, right?
Bolt Upright
that bagel in the sky.
Patrick Keenan
news:4beff888$0$3695$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se...
>
> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>
>>> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the
>> manuscript was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt,
>> Germany's "FBI"] for examination.
>>>
>>> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose
>> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
>>>
>>> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that
>> portions of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint
>> pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections
>> must have been added subsequently.
>>
>> Nevertheless, the first version of Anne Frank's diary, *Het Acherhuis*,
>> appeared in the Netherlands in 1947.
>>
>> As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
>
>
It's fact.
>
... It seems to me ballpoints were only coming into
> wide-scale usage in the early 1950's. ...Some twelve years after the dates
> attributed to Frank's journal.
Not relevant, since no parts of her diaries were written with ballpoint.
But I'm sure you know that.
-pk
Jason P
He thinks his bizarre site has credibility -- what a joke! I'd rather get
information from a comic book. Storefront is as bad, but it gives some badly
needed perspective to Ken McVay's bullshit site.
A wacko like McVay is still a wacko just like some neo-Nazi asshole.
Patrick Keenan
Who ballpoints were made by couldn't be less relevant to whether Ms. Frank
wrote the diaries.
No parts of the diaries were written with ballpoint.
The ballpoint ink was used on slips of paper added years later by editors
who were writing notes to themselves.
But I'm sure that you know that - and if you don't, you're simply displaying
your willful ignorance.
But go ahead - show that the extensive forensic tests carried out on the
diaries by the Netherlands State Forensic Science Laboratory are wrong.
-pk
Patrick Keenan
"Anonymous" <cri...@ecn.org> wrote in message
news:2010051606172...@www.ecn.org...
> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the manuscript
> was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt, Germany's
> "FBI"] for examination.
>
> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose
> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
>
> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that portions
> of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were
> not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections must have
> been added subsequently.
>
No, the diaries weren't forged, and no parts of the diaries themselves were
written with ballpoint. The incomplete BKA report does not identify
where ballpoint was used, but the later, complete forensic tests carried out
by the Netherlands State Forensic Science Laboratory do.
Ballpoint was used on slips of paper added years later by people editing the
diaries.
Isn't it telling that "revisionists" conveniently forget all about forensic
testing when it doesn't produce the results they want.
And of course, it is also historically false to claim that ballpoints were
not available before 1951.
-pk
Kenneth McVay OBC
In that case, you will have no difficulty documenting
any error(s) associated with that link.
Be my guest, Boltie.
170 Statements Illustrating Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll's
strict adherence to the highest intellectual standards of Holocaust
denial... folks, with intellects like Knoll's to guide them, Holocaust
deniers cannot but achieve monumental failures and continuing
humiliations:
(See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/ for
the first 164 -- (Honest, Folks, I'm not making them up!)
165. "What Nazi crab look at your own fabrications."
<gSwnm.42278$Db2.2387@edtnps83>, Sept. 3, 2009
166. "I personally think the use this holocaust denial crab
to scare others." <NXRom.42961$Db2.7658@edtnps83>,
Sept. 6, 2009
167. "Intersting what date what posings heading i am courious."
<0igpm.44144$PH1.22994@edtnps82>, Sept. 7, 2009
168. "We are talking about gassings don't we."
<vEgpm.44148$PH1.40649@edtnps82>, Sept. 7, 2009
169. "Only the naive will belive what Wiesenthal says edjucatet
people can think for themselfs."
<vNvqm.43567$Db2.12876@edtnps83>, Sept. 12, 2009
170. "People who wend to university should have a higher education.
When they come out latter on the are full of arrogance and
not considered normal human being. We say here this fuckers
did have their education in a slime factory and their arrogance
is very apparent visible. " <qG7vm.46534$PH1.45557@edtnps82>,
Sept.25, 2009
--
"...the antisemite is immune to refutation from either facts or logic.
An antisemite has chosen to live in hatred, without regard to either
facts or logic." (Matas, David. Bloody Speech, p. 37)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
Maybe the whole nine-yards is an editorial commentary by some smart-assed
bastard with a bunch of cheap Bic pens.
Jason P
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> wrote in message
news:quSdnWCbDqsaHm3W...@supernews.com...
I heard you the first time. You were ignored because your assertions are
baseless and unfounded.
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> > It is, on the other hand, a fact that small parts of her diary were
> > written in ballpoint pen, but these are editorial emandations made after
> > her death and before publication. There is nothing strange or sinister
> > about this.
>
> Maybe the whole nine-yards is an editorial commentary by some smart-assed
> bastard with a bunch of cheap Bic pens.
More probably, maybe not.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Jason P
So, maybe, they were Pentel or another brand?
Alistair
>
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:
>>
>>> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the
>> manuscript was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt,
>> Germany's "FBI"] for examination.
>>>
>>> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose
>> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special equipment.
>>>
>>> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that
>> portions of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint
>> pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections
>> must have been added subsequently.
>>
>> Some parts were edited, as is natural with a debutant writer.
>> Nevertheless, the first version of Anne Frank's diary, *Het Acherhuis*,
>> appeared in the Netherlands in 1947.
>>
>> As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
>
>
> attributed to Frank's journal.
>
> Whether they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also,
> remember, Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in
> force -- availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply.
> The ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
>
>
>>
Ball-point pens did exist then, but were not common. A parallel would be
18inch LCD computer monitors were in existence 12 years ago but cost $18,000
each. They were not in wide use.
The person you respond to plays with words and twists them to give him what
he wants. This behavior is something the Jews have made into an art form.
>
>
Alistair
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>> >
>> > As to ballpoint pens, they already existed in 1938.
>>
>>
>> Doubtful very doubtful.... It seems to me ballpoints were only coming
>> into
>> wide-scale usage in the early 1950's. ...Some twelve years after the
>> dates
>> attributed to Frank's journal.
>
> argue that there are certain PARTS, that is to say, emandations
> corrections, and editorial comments, that are in ballpoint pen.
>
>> Whether
>> they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
>> Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
>> availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply.
>
> had access to a ballpoint pen. They were invented before the war, and her
> dad was in the import/export business. Her dad had to pay off the people
> in the office who were hiding them, so he might very well have come across
> a spare ballpoint pen.
For goodness sake man. Aren't you the person who claimed to have never been
accused of academic fraud? You are sailing very close to the wind here. You
are making a lot of assumptions and forcing your opinion forward as being
fact. That is not the way an honest academic operates.
>
>> The
>> ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
>
Alistair
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <deletions>
>>
>> first.
>> Spare...? Hahahahaha... get real! They were VERY expensive, until
>> reinvented
>> (engineering modifications) by Eberhard-Faber in 1945 (USA). Like those
>> V-2
>> rockets they were almost useless; it took American ingenuity to made
>> esoteric German
>
> Biro was a Hungarian.
>
>> inventions of the 1930-40s work for the masses.
>
> Working ballpoint pen or not, the first edition of Anne Frank's diary.
> 'Het Acherhuis*, was published in the Netherlands in 1947. Deal with it.
How do you know it was all her work? Deal with that.
>
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman
TallHenry
Alistair <amcl...@home.net> wrote:
[...]
You sound very much like a certain aussie maggot
who infests this forum. You're also posting from
bigpond.net.au. Are you that thieving, corrupt,
degenerate aussie maggot?
RJ11
Alistair <amcl...@home.net> wrote:
(yaaawn)
You silly old doper.
RJ.
Alistair
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>><deletions>
>> She died of typhus in March 1945. The "diary" came before that (maybe).
>> Deal
>> with it!
>
> I don't deal with false statements further qualified with "maybe".
You do nothing but. All your facts are based on assumption, assertion and
opinion. Your assumptions, your assertions your opinion.
In addition to academic fraud and lying, you now add hypocrisy to your list
of questionable talents.
Alistair
>
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>
>>> They didn't work. The 1950s and practical modifications had to come
>>> first.
>>> Spare...? Hahahahaha... get real! They were VERY expensive, until
>>> reinvented
>>> (engineering modifications) by Eberhard-Faber in 1945 (USA). Like those
>>> V-2
>>> rockets they were almost useless; it took American ingenuity to made
>>> esoteric German
>>
>> Biro was a Hungarian.
>>
>>> inventions of the 1930-40s work for the masses.
>>
>> Working ballpoint pen or not, the first edition of Anne Frank's diary.
>> 'Het Acherhuis*, was published in the Netherlands in 1947. Deal with it.
>>
>> Eugene Holman
>
>
> She died of typhus in March 1945. The "diary" came before that (maybe).
> Deal with it!
Her story plays havoc with the Holocaust fable. She shouldn't not have
survived long enough to have contracted typhus, as the Jewish version of
history tells us that all children were gassed and cremated upon arrival.
Her story plays even more havoc with the Jewish version of the Holocaust, in
that she was hospitalised and provided medical care and treatment for
typhus. Again, the Jewish version would have had her whipped off to the gas
chamber and ovens quicker than the blink of an eye.
There are too many conflicting elements in the Jewish story for it to go
unchallenged.
>
> ---
>
> History of the Ballpoint:
>
> (from your Wiki ref.)
>
>
> L�szl� B�r�, a Hungarian newspaper editor, was frustrated by the amount of
> time that he wasted in filling up fountain pens and cleaning up smudged
> pages, and the sharp tip of his fountain pen often tore his pages of
> newsprint. B�r� had noticed that the type of ink used in newspaper
> printing
> dried quickly, leaving the paper dry and smudge free. He decided to create
> a
> pen using the same type of ink. Since, when tried, this viscous ink would
> not flow into a regular fountain pen nib, B�r�, with the help of his
> brother
> George, a chemist, began to work on designing new types of pens. B�r�
> fitted
> this pen with a tiny ball in its tip that was free to turn in a socket. As
> the pen moved along the paper, the ball rotated, picking up ink from the
> ink
> cartridge and leaving it on the paper. B�r� filed a British patent on 15
> June 1938.
>
> Note: Earlier pens leaked or clogged due to improper viscosity of the ink,
> and depended on gravity to deliver the ink to the ball. Depending on
> gravity
> caused difficulties with the flow and required that the pen be held nearly
> vertically. The Biro pen both pressurized the ink column and used
> capillary
> action for ink delivery, solving the flow problems.
>
> In 1940 the B�r� brothers and a friend, Juan Jorge Meyne, moved to
> Argentina
> fleeing Nazi Germany and on June 10, filed another patent, and formed B�r�
> Pens of Argentina. The pen was sold in Argentina under the Birome brand
> (portmanteau of B�r� and Meyne), which is how ballpoint pens are still
> known
> in that country. L�szl� was known in Argentina as Ladislao Jos� B�r�.
>
> This new design was licensed by the British, who produced ball point pens
> for RAF aircrew as the Biro, who found they worked much better than
> fountain
> pens at high altitude, as fountain pens were prone to ink-leakage due to
> the
> decreased atmospheric pressure.
>
> The 1950s:
>
> Eversharp, a maker of mechanical pencils teamed up with Eberhard-Faber in
> May 1945 to license the design for sales in the United States. At about
> the
> same time a U.S. businessman, Milton Reynolds saw a Biro pen in a store in
> Buenos Aires. He purchased several samples and returned to the U.S. to
> found
> the Reynolds International Pen Company, producing the Biro design without
> license as the Reynolds Rocket. He managed to beat Eversharp to market in
> late 1945; the first ballpoint pens went on sale at Gimbels department
> store
> in New York City on 29 October 1945 for US$12.50 each. This pen was widely
> known as the rocket in the U.S. into the late 1950s.
>
>
>
>
>
RJ11
"Ben Cramer", posting as "Alistair <amcl...@home.net>", wrote:
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, old nazi kook.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp
Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation
in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
RJ.
Alistair
"george" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
news:0f54c614-5afe-4a80...@z15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On May 17, 1:51 am, "Jason P" <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
> I think whether they existed or not is not a true litmus test here.
> Whether
> they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
> Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
> availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply. The
> ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
>Why do nazis have to lie.
>The diary was NOT written in Biro.
>The notes by the father (in his hand writing) in biro were attached to
>the diary.
>The first nazi claim was that there was no such thing as a ballpoint
>pen available before or during the WW2.
Where is that claim? How far back was it made? I cannot see it.
Whether the pen was in existence or not is not the point. The very fact that
the pens were not at all common and certainly NOT in widespread use is of
more importance.
>Wrong and the facts have been pointed out.
>However.
L>A successful businessman would demonstrate his success by the
>equipment he has.
>A ballpoint pen in the age of stick and fountain pens would go a long
>way to demonstrating that.
Are you related to Mister Holman or are you, in fact, Mister Holman's sock?
You are creating facts where none exist. You are putting forward a "perhaps"
and calling it fact.
How terribly dishonest and Jewish of you.
Alistair
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> wrote in message
You can prove that, of course, or are you another Jew who makes proof by
assertion?
Alistair
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>><deletions>
>>
>> Holman is grasping at straws.
>
Here you are with your opinion again.
You ARE grasping at straws, my good man. You are also flapping about
something like a well hooked mullet.
>>
>> I cited first the fact that ballpoints first came from B�r� brothers, and
>> he
>> conveniently ignored he fact, because he couldn't further his theories
>> based
>> on my assertions. Now he brings it up, completely in another context, as
>> if
>> to make his point for Frank's possession of such an instrument. As usual
>> our
>> dull Holman is blowing more pretentious hot air.
>
> I never claimed that Anne Frank *had* a ballpoint pen, even though the
> fact that it was invented in the late 1930s and her dad was in the
> import/export business would have made it possible that she had a higher
> likelihood than many housebound teenage girls of the era to have had one.
>
> It is, on the other hand, a fact that small parts of her diary were
> written in ballpoint pen, but these are editorial emandations made after
> her death and before publication. There is nothing strange or sinister
> about this.
>
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman
Alistair
Alistair
"RJ11" <rj...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:hsp4hs$dkb$1...@pcls6.std.com...> (crap removed)
>
> <quote>
>
> In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation
> submitted
> Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science
> Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity.
> The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used--
> the ink, paper, glue, etc.--and the handwriting and issued a report of
> some 270 pages. "The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory
> has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne
> Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations
> that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or
> otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted." Furthermore, that "despite
> corrections and omissions..._The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ [i.e., the
> published version of the diaries] does indeed contain `the essence' of
> Anne's writings, and that there are no grounds on which the term
> `forgery' can be applied to the work of the editors or publishers of
> the book." <1>
Hahahahahahaha. "...contain 'the essence' of Anne's writings..."
In other words, fantasy. Jewish fantasy.
Thank you for clearing that up.
>
>
> 1. Anne Frank, _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank:_The_Critical_Edition_,
> Prepared by the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation,
> edited by David Barnouw and Gerrold Van Der Stroom, (New York,
> Doubleday, 1989) p. 166.
>
> </quote>
>
> RJ.
Alistair
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> wrote in message
I see. More proof by assertion.
No wonder your Holocaust has gained so much traction in the past 40 years or
so. You don't need evidence to support a single issue.
Alistair
Not prepared to declare your "facts" here, Mister Holman? Why?
You are a very opinionated fellow, aren't you. Full of your own importance.
RJ11
"Ben Cramer", posting as Alistair <amcl...@home.net> wrote:
> "RJ11" <rj...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> <quote>
>>
>> In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation
>> submitted
>> Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science
>> Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity.
>> The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used--
>> the ink, paper, glue, etc.--and the handwriting and issued a report of
>> some 270 pages. "The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory
>> has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne
>> Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations
>> that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or
>> otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted." Furthermore, that "despite
>> corrections and omissions..._The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ [i.e., the
>> published version of the diaries] does indeed contain `the essence' of
>> Anne's writings, and that there are no grounds on which the term
>> `forgery' can be applied to the work of the editors or publishers of
>> the book." <1>
> Hahahahahahaha. "...contain 'the essence' of Anne's writings..."
>
> In other words, fantasy. Jewish fantasy.
Why, doper?
Did you consult the source, doper?
>> 1. Anne Frank, _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank:_The_Critical_Edition_,
>> Prepared by the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation,
>> edited by David Barnouw and Gerrold Van Der Stroom, (New York,
>> Doubleday, 1989) p. 166.
RJ.
TallHenry
In article <IR5In.25246$pv.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Alistair <amcl...@home.net> wrote:
[...]
You're really one disgusting aussie bastard, posting
these lies and forgeries instead of dealing with the
*real* crimes you people commit on a daily basis:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/07/31/australia.woomera/
"CANBERRA, Australia (CNN) -- A United Nations human rights envoy
has slammed conditions in Australia's Woomera detention camp, saying
the situation there in many cases was 'inhuman and degrading'".
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/oct2001/refu-o13.shtml
"Australian navy fires on refugee boat".
Australia's culpability in East Timor's genocide
------------------------------------------------
http://www.pcug.org.au/~wildwood/earlyviva.htm
"Australian governments all sought to influence the destiny of East
Timor. This destiny became one of the longest ongoing acts of genocide
since the European Holocaust of the Second World War. I am reminded of
the French Vichy Government of that war which supplied and organised
the freight train convoys that carried persecuted Jews to the Nazi
ovens. Canberra's warts-and-all allegiance with Jakarta; the almost $2
billion in bilateral aid; the million of dollars in military gifts,
defence training and defence co-operation; and the political lobbying
in the international arena for Jakarta's position, all helped to
create a similar cattlewagon, transporting the East Timorese to their
diabolical fate." Jim Aubrey, editor, 'Free East Timor: Australia's
culpability in East Timor's genocide'.
It seems that genocide in an old aussie tradition:
"The second consequence of British settlement was
appropriation of land and water resources. The combination
of disease, loss of land and direct violence reduced the
Aboriginal population by up to 80% between 1788 and 1900.
A wave of massacres and resistance followed the frontier
of British settlement. By the 1870s all the fertile areas
of Australia had been appropriated, and Indigenous communities
reduced to impoverished remnants living either on the fringes
of Australian communities or on lands considered unsuitable
for settlement".
(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians)
Jewdas
I disagree. He sounds nothing like you at all.
>
The Peeler
trolls around, wrote:
> "Bolt Upright" <Nob...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:c70aa$4bf07d1f$cf701d8f$11...@PRIMUS.CA...
>> On 5/16/2010 3:54 PM, Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>>> In article<5a52b$4bf03ec8$cf701d8f$14...@PRIMUS.CA>,
>>> Bolt Upright<Nob...@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/16/2010 10:25 AM, Jason P wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Honest truth"<Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1v6a4oa715l8i$.4uwrt9o2i4z6$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 08:17:26 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "only a short time before Otto Frank's death on August 19, the
>>>>>>> manuscript
>>>>>>> was turned over to techicians of the BKA [Bundeskriminalamt,
>>>>>>> Germany's
>>>>>>> "FBI"] for examination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The manuscript, in the form of three hardbound notebooks and 324
>>>>>>> loose
>>>>>>> pages bound in a fourth notebook, was examined with special
>>>>>>> equipment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that
>>>>>>> portions
>>>>>>> of the work were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> not available before 1951, the BKA concluded, those sections must
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been added subsequently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
> He thinks his bizarre site has credibility -- what a joke! I'd rather get
> information from a comic book. Storefront is as bad, but it gives some badly
> needed perspective to Ken McVay's bullshit site.
>
> A wacko like McVay is still a wacko just like some neo-Nazi asshole.
Boy, ALL of your hilariously stupid posts sound like they were taken from a
comic book! LOL
The Peeler
I've checked that site, and I found it has a lot of credibility. Of course
it's not in line with your Nazi thinking, Dolt Forever Unright!
The Peeler
trolls around, wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1705...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article <4bf08855$0$3695$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se>, "Jason P"
>> <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
>>> news:holman-1605...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> <deletions>
>>
>>> > It is, on the other hand, a fact that small parts of her diary were
>>> > written in ballpoint pen, but these are editorial emandations made
>>> > after
>>> > her death and before publication. There is nothing strange or sinister
>>> > about this.
>>>
>>> Maybe the whole nine-yards is an editorial commentary by some smart-assed
>>> bastard with a bunch of cheap Bic pens.
>>
>> More probably, maybe not.
>>
>
> So, maybe, they were Pentel or another brand?
What kind of answer would satisfy your primitive anti-Semitic mind most,
slimy Jason Pee? And preference for any pen brand? <BG>
The Peeler
You chose to ignore him because you couldn't refute what he wrote, slimy
Jason Pee! <G>
The Peeler
The Franks were the typical liberal, progressive, talented, educated,
successful and affluent Jewish family (that often, especially during the
time of the Nazis, incited so much envy in people), so it's rather LIKELY
that they owned some new useful invention and enjoyed using it, perhaps even
with a sense of their own progressiveness and open-mindedness. Nothing
strange about that at all.
Jason P
"Alistair" <amcl...@home.net> wrote in message
news:rD5In.25238$pv....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Well said and noted...
Let's see what Doc. H comes back with now!
Jason P
Keenan will not prove a thing because he doesn't reason very well. It's all
knee-jerk nonsense.
Jason P
I think I brought that out, about ballpoints and common availability, in an
earlier post, but maybe not as succinctly.
I have Doc. E. Holman figured out long ago. He's, as you say, a wordsmith of
sorts, albeit one with a negative point of view regarding the truth.
Jason P
>
> "george" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
> news:0f54c614-5afe-4a80...@z15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 1:51 am, "Jason P" <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I think whether they existed or not is not a true litmus test here.
>> Whether
>> they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
>> Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
>> availability of certain boutique items were is very low supply. The
>> ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
>
>
>>Why do nazis have to lie.
>>The diary was NOT written in Biro.
>>The notes by the father (in his hand writing) in biro were attached to
>>the diary.
>
>>The first nazi claim was that there was no such thing as a ballpoint
>>pen available before or during the WW2.
>
> Where is that claim? How far back was it made? I cannot see it.
>
> Whether the pen was in existence or not is not the point. The very fact
> that the pens were not at all common and certainly NOT in widespread use
> is of more importance.
>
Ballpoint pens only came into common usage in the early-mid 1950's; this has
been hashed and re-hashed several times now. Holman keeps going back to the
same hollow and circular arguments about the ballpoint pen's invention
sometime prior to Frank's "journal."
It's classic Holman-hollow logic -- circular reasoning -- he doesn't get it,
and doesn't see that he doesn't get it. No one but Holman suggested the
ballpoint was around before then as a very commonly used instrument.
The record shows ballpoints are a Hungarian invention from the 1930s, yes,
but as you say a very rare commodity. More often than not they didn't work
very well -- until an American company bought the licensees and reworked the
original patents. Holman glosses over this fact and 'deletes' it from his
responses simply to manipulate the conversation in favor of his distorted
point of view.
Jason P
That's the problem, his own sense of self importance. It's why I won't waste
a lot of time arguing with him. He's an over educated idiot.
Honest truth
> That's your sad THEORY...
What theory it is a fact, that before posting you did not bother checking.
If you had done a netsearch "ann frank ballpoint"
You would have got about 43,200 results (0.29 seconds)
And you would have had your answer on the first shot. That is why we called
it lousy posting
--
About us
The Palestinian Zionist Organization is:
Against the lying and deceitfull activities of the terroristic Palestinian
Government led by Hamas and Fatah.
Against the lies that the Palestinians show the world media so the world
ALWAYS blames Israel!
Against the 'Land for Peace' policy forced by the USA and the UN. The only
thing that Israel receives in return for land are rockets send by Hamas and
Fatah. 'Land for Peace' is one big Palestinian lie!
Against a Palestinian State. This Palestinian State will become the most
terroristic state in the world! Official Hamas documents show that they
will only use every 'new inch of land' to destroy the nation of Israel.
Politics does not change the hearts of people!
Against the Palestinian child abuse by Hamas and Fatah who turn children
into suicide bombers.
Against the division of Jerusalem. The Palestinians will only use their
part of Jerusalem to terrorize the Jewish part of Jerusalem.
Honest truth
That explains why Alistair is so dumb
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
<deletions>
>
> Ballpoint pens only came into common usage in the early-mid 1950's; this has
> been hashed and re-hashed several times now.
You are generalizing from *American* experience. Ballpoint pens were being
massproduced and used all over Argentina during the last years of WW II.
> Holman keeps going back to the
> same hollow and circular arguments about the ballpoint pen's invention
> sometime prior to Frank's "journal."
The ballpoint pen had been invented and was being massproduced in
Argentina well before the inhabitants of the Secret Annexe were arrested
and sent to concentration camps.
Source: http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/ballpen.htm
<quote>
<deletions>
One summer day while vacationing at the seashore, the Biro brothers met an
interesting elderly gentleman, Augustine Justo, who happened to be the
president of Argentina. After the brothers showed him their model of a
ballpoint pen, President Justo urged them to set up a factory in
Argentina. When World War II broke out in Europe, a few years later, the
Biros fled to Argentina, stopping in Paris along the way to patent their
pen.
Once in Argentina, the Biros found several investors willing to finance
their invention, and in 1943 they had set up a manufacturing plant.
Unfortunately, the pens were a spectacular failure. The Biro pen, like the
designs that had preceded it, depended on gravity for the ink to flow to
the roller ball. This meant that the pens worked only when they were held
more or less straight up, and even then the ink flow was sometimes too
heavy, leaving smudgy globs on the paper. The Biro brothers returned to
their laboratory and devised a new design, which relied on "capillsry
action" rather than gravity to feed the ink. The rough "ball" at the end
of the pen acted like a metal sponge, and with this improvement ink could
flow more smoothly to the ball, and the pen could be held at a slant
rather than straight up. One year later, the Biros were selling their
new, improved ballpoint pen throughout Argentina. But it still was not a
smashing success, and the men ran out of money.
The greatest interest in the ballpoint pen came from American flyers who
had been to Argentina during World War II. Apparently it was ideal for
pilots because it would work well at high altitudes and, unlike fountain
pens, did not have to be refilled frequently. The U.S. Department of State
sent specifications to several American pen manufacturers asking them to
develop a similar pen. In an attempt to corner the market, the Eberhard
Faber Company paid the Biro brothers $500,000 for the rights to
manufacture their ballpoint pen in the United States. Eberhard Faber later
sold its rights to the Eversharp Company, but neither was quick about
putting a ballpoint pen on the market. There were still too many bugs in
the Biro design.
Source: http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/ballpen.htm
<quote>
<deletions>
The first great success for the ballpoint pen came on an October morning
in 1945 when a crowd of over 5,000 people jammed the entrance of New
York�s Gimbels Department Store. The day before, Gimbels had taken out a
full-page ad in the New York Times promoting the first sale of ballpoints
in the United States. The ad described the new pen as a "fantastic...
miraculous fountain pen ... guaranteed to write for two years without
refilling!" On that first day of sales, Gimbels sold out its entire stock
of 10,000 pens-at $12.50 each!
</quote>
Thus, ball-point pen did not come into common use in the *United States*
until the mid-1950s � I remember the efforts of our penmanship teacher in
elementary school, Mrs. Thorne, recognizing a real and pertinent threat to
her professional existence and trying to have them banned from schools at
the time, but various prototypes had been around since the late 1930s and
they were being mass-produced in Argentina during WW II. Gimbels in New
York City was selling them, presumably not as a loss leader, for $12.50
each, a hefty, but not exhorbitant amount of money in late 1945. If they
sold out their entire stock of 10,000 pens in one day, the middle-class
people that Gimbels catered to had the buying power to afford them, much
like they do to buy iPods and iPads today.
> It's classic Holman-hollow logic -- circular reasoning -- he doesn't get it,
> and doesn't see that he doesn't get it. No one but Holman suggested the
> ballpoint was around before then as a very commonly used instrument.
First of all, there is no evidence that Anne Frank ever had a ballpoint
pen. The "parts" of the diary that are in ballpoint are editorial comments
on separate pieces of paper added sometime between 1945 and mid 1947.
That said, Anne Frank and the other inhabitants of the Secret Annexe were
living off the gray economy in conditions of war and foreign occupation.
What would be uncommon in civilian life might be quite common in the
extraordinary conditions they were in. The ballpoint pen, small, valuable,
and innocent looking, is the kind of object that people living off the
gray economy would try to acquire. In any case, the diary was edited and
published in 1947, so Mr. Frank *did* have a ballpoint pen available at
some time between his return to the Netherlands and acquisition of Anne's
diary during the latter half of 1945 and the publication of the edited
Dutch version of the diary in June, 1947.
<deletions>
</quote>
> The record shows ballpoints are a Hungarian invention from the 1930s, yes,
> but as you say a very rare commodity. More often than not they didn't work
> very well -- until an American company bought the licensees and reworked the
> original patents. Holman glosses over this fact and 'deletes' it from his
> responses simply to manipulate the conversation in favor of his distorted
> point of view.
I don't think this information is relevant. During WW II some ball point
pens were good enough to be mass produced in Argentina and catch the
attention of American fliers, among others. The only point relevant to our
discussion is that Otto Frank had access to and used a ballpoint pen to
make editorial emendations to the diary some time between mid 1945 and mid
1947.
> >>Wrong and the facts have been pointed out.
> >>However.
> > L>A successful businessman would demonstrate his success by the
> >>equipment he has.
> >>A ballpoint pen in the age of stick and fountain pens would go a long
> >>way to demonstrating that.
> >
> > Are you related to Mister Holman or are you, in fact, Mister Holman's
> > sock? You are creating facts where none exist. You are putting forward a
> > "perhaps" and calling it fact.
> >
> > How terribly dishonest and Jewish of you.
The facts are simple:
1. Ballpoint pens were being mass produced and sold in Argentina during
the last years of WW II.
2. They did not become popular in the United States until later, after
their design had been improved, but they were certainly being sold in the
United States in large quantities starting in late 1945.
3. They caught the attention of fliers, who found them superior to
fountain pens for writing at high altitudes.
4. There is no evidence that Anne Frank ever had a ballpoint pen.
5. There is no part of her diary that is written in ballpoint pen.
6. Otto Frank gained access to a ballpoint pen and used it to make
editorial emendations on pieces of paper inserted into the diary before
its publication in the Netherlands in June 1947.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
The Peeler
Because an idiotic Usenet troll like you says so? LMAO!
The Peeler
You sick trolls still don't get it! The Franks were RICH!!! They could
afford any ballpoint pens! If only for the fun of it, or for the sense of
being progressive!
The Peeler
Not at all, Jason Pee, you dumbest of all Usenet trolls around! His post was
as idiotic as can be, actually like any of his or your "posts"!
> Let's see what Doc. H comes back with now!
I wonder whether Holman should honour Usenet scum like you with any
attention at all!
The Peeler
You sure enjoy wasting your time licking Cramer's sick Nazi ass on as many
occasions as possible, Jason Pee, you old whiner! LOL
Jason P
"Honest truth" <Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
> On Mon, 17 May 2010 06:51:52 +0000 (UTC), RJ11 wrote:
>
>> In article <rD5In.25238$pv....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>> Alistair <amcl...@home.net> wrote:
>>
>> (yaaawn)
>>
>> You silly old doper.
>>
>> RJ.
>
> That explains why Alistair is so dumb
>
Or you are such an asshole!
Jason P
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1705...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
I had a nun with the same bent... she insisted we all use fountain pens
exclusively. We could always get up and go to the window sill to refill our
pens, which was a break in the dull classroom routines. I distinctly
remember the pen I owned. It was a "Schaffer Snorkel" pen. We could also
only use black or blue-black ink -- op red, no south sea green, no blue. It
so influenced my thinking that as late as the 1990s I still owed a few
fountain pens and used them regularly, despite their inconvenience. It was
only after my job took me flying commercially to several places, twice each
month, that I fully surrendered to ballpoint pens. A good ballpoint is worth
any ten fountain pens, but some habits are tough to break.
I would suppose here that middle class Frank -- if she used a ballpoint --
would have had similar issues with its use.
...Sounds like speculation in place of fact to me. 1943, 1945, 1947 come
after 1938. If Anne Frank's father had an H.G. Well style time machine --
maybe -- it could have happened.
You have not presented any factual supports to actualize your assertions
that the ballpoint was not generally used in the Frank "journal" at the time
of its writing. If the ballpoint entries were indeed later editorial notes,
there should be ample notes to support that idea. Your thesis is sloppy, the
syllogisms spotty and iffy.
Jason P
"Honest truth" <Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 07:25:32 -0700, Jason P wrote:
>
>> That's your sad THEORY...
>
> What theory it is a fact, that before posting you did not bother checking.
>
>
> If you had done a netsearch "ann frank ballpoint"
>
> You would have got about 43,200 results (0.29 seconds)
>
> And you would have had your answer on the first shot. That is why we
> called
> it lousy posting
Search results do not make a sad THEORY factual, unless those results are
properly applied to targeted theory.
The Peeler
Why, did he ever hint he was a doper like Cramer, or are you just being an
asshole AGAIN, Jason Pee? <BG>
The Peeler
Impressive phrasing again, you grandmaster of the "baffle them with
bullshit" tactic. <VBG> It's just that it's not about any "theory" here, but
facts which you refuse to recognize as long as they don't fit your primitive
anti-Semitic agenda!
The Peeler
trolls around, wrote:
>> First of all, there is no evidence that Anne Frank ever had a ballpoint
>> pen. The "parts" of the diary that are in ballpoint are editorial comments
>> on separate pieces of paper added sometime between 1945 and mid 1947.
>>
>> That said, Anne Frank and the other inhabitants of the Secret Annexe were
>> living off the gray economy in conditions of war and foreign occupation.
>> What would be uncommon in civilian life might be quite common in the
>> extraordinary conditions they were in. The ballpoint pen, small, valuable,
>> and innocent looking, is the kind of object that people living off the
>> gray economy would try to acquire. In any case, the diary was edited and
>> published in 1947, so Mr. Frank *did* have a ballpoint pen available at
>> some time between his return to the Netherlands and acquisition of Anne's
>> diary during the latter half of 1945 and the publication of the edited
>> Dutch version of the diary in June, 1947.
>>
>
> ...Sounds like speculation in place of fact to me. 1943, 1945, 1947 come
> after 1938. If Anne Frank's father had an H.G. Well style time machine --
> maybe -- it could have happened.
>
> You have not presented any factual supports to actualize your assertions
> that the ballpoint was not generally used in the Frank "journal" at the time
> of its writing. If the ballpoint entries were indeed later editorial notes,
> there should be ample notes to support that idea. Your thesis is sloppy, the
> syllogisms spotty and iffy.
<BG> It's just amazing how you sick troll absolutely refuse to accept any
clear statements made by Holman! He explained everything very clearly and
repeatedly, but you can't accept it because it doesn't fit your anti-Semitic
agenda. You just keep trying to baffle everyone with you endless verbose
bullshit! No one, except the vilest and dumbest trolls (including yourself)
aroung would ever fall for your endless tripe!
george
> "george" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
>
> news:0f54c614-5afe-4a80...@z15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 1:51 am, "Jason P" <jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > Whether
> > they were used in the general populations of Europe is. Also, remember,
> > Frank was living in wartime Europe where rationing was in force --
> > ballpoint ink is a deal-breaker for the diary's authenticity.
> >The diary was NOT written in Biro.
> >The notes by the father (in his hand writing) in biro were attached to
> >the diary.
> >The first nazi claim was that there was no such thing as a ballpoint
> >pen available before or during the WW2.
>
> Where is that claim? How far back was it made? I cannot see it.
>
> Whether the pen was in existence or not is not the point. The very fact that
> the pens were not at all common and certainly NOT in widespread use is of
> more importance.
It proves that nazis lie and when caught out in a lie do not change
their claims to include the new evidence
> Are you related to Mister Holman or are you, in fact, Mister Holman's sock?
> You are creating facts where none exist. You are putting forward a "perhaps"
> and calling it fact.
>
> How terribly dishonest and Jewish of you.
Wrong.
Which you know but again you have to keep lying to hide that fact...
Alistair
>
> "Honest truth" <Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
> news:17adiopiu6ny8$.1mz20b7aqm30p$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 07:25:32 -0700, Jason P wrote:
>>
>>> That's your sad THEORY...
>>
>> What theory it is a fact, that before posting you did not bother
>> checking.
>>
>>
>> If you had done a netsearch "ann frank ballpoint"
>>
>> You would have got about 43,200 results (0.29 seconds)
>>
>> And you would have had your answer on the first shot. That is why we
>> called
>> it lousy posting
>
> Search results do not make a sad THEORY factual,
They do if you're a Jew.
>unless those results are properly applied to targeted theory.
They aren't interested in "properly". Their only interest is in perpetuating
the myth that has turned out to be such a profitable business for them.
>
>
>
>
Alistair
From what I've just observed of this Keenan person, he's all word play,
pedantry and technicality. Probably a lawyer.
Alistair
You did indeed bring that point out. I simply made it a little more
contemporary.
>
> I have Doc. E. Holman figured out long ago. He's, as you say, a wordsmith
> of sorts, albeit one with a negative point of view regarding the truth.
He's quite the narciccist. Very, very fond of himself and does not at all
hold that there could possibly be opinion in existence which does not sit
with his own view. A very troubled person, from all accounts. Totally
insecure and constantly in need of hearing his own words and constantly in
need of telling himself of his own importance.
God almighty. If it wasn't for him, non Finnish speaking persons could never
be able to sing Carmen in Finnish - The world without him is fucked.
>
>
>
Alistair
>Wrong.
Yes you are. But you're yet to learn to be honest. \
>Which you know but again you have to keep lying to hide that fact...
What use do you have for facts?
RJ11
"Ben Cramer", posting as Alistair <amcl...@home.net> wrote:
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
This is quite odd.
In Message-ID: <xN2dnYjRopJf4m_b...@giganews.com> you
wrote the following:
"Kurt Schlesinger walked the tightrope of a survivor. He was the
type of person who left the impression that he possessed deplorable
mentality. After all, he was prepared to sacrifice the lives of over
one hundred thousand fellow prisoners, sending them to certain death
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
in the camps of Auschwitz/Birkenau and Sobibor in order to safe his
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
own and that of some of the German alte Lagerinsassen".
In Message-ID: <GJqdndzhxapyU9Lb...@giganews.com>
you accused the "Zionists" of standing on the sidelines during
the Holocaust, while -- as you wrote -- millions were murdered
in the gas chambers.
So, do you deny the Holocaust or not? Does it depend on
the day of the week? The moon? The amount of "magic
mushrooms" you consumed during the previous evening? Please
advise.
RJ.
Eugene Holman
<jas...@invalid.com> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1705...@ke-hupnet225-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
<deletions>
> >
> > That said, Anne Frank and the other inhabitants of the Secret Annexe were
> > living off the gray economy in conditions of war and foreign occupation.
> > What would be uncommon in civilian life might be quite common in the
> > extraordinary conditions they were in. The ballpoint pen, small, valuable,
> > and innocent looking, is the kind of object that people living off the
> > gray economy would try to acquire. In any case, the diary was edited and
> > published in 1947, so Mr. Frank *did* have a ballpoint pen available at
> > some time between his return to the Netherlands and acquisition of Anne's
> > diary during the latter half of 1945 and the publication of the edited
> > Dutch version of the diary in June, 1947.
> >
>
> ...Sounds like speculation in place of fact to me. 1943, 1945, 1947 come
> after 1938. If Anne Frank's father had an H.G. Well style time machine --
> maybe -- it could have happened.
The only timeline that is important is the interval between mid-1945, when
Otto Frank returned to the Netherlands from the USSR and received Anne's
manuscripts, and mid 1947, when the edited version of the diary was
pubished in the Netherlands. If 10,000 ballpoint pens were sold in one day
in New York City in October 1945, there is nothing speculative about the
likelihood of a Dutch publishing house having access to one between then
and the publication of the diary in 1947.
>
> You have not presented any factual supports to actualize your assertions
> that the ballpoint was not generally used in the Frank "journal" at the time
> of its writing. If the ballpoint entries were indeed later editorial notes,
> there should be ample notes to support that idea. Your thesis is sloppy, the
> syllogisms spotty and iffy.
<deletions>
The Dutch Institute for War Documentation conducted a forensic examination
of Anne Frank's original manuscripts, concluding that the paper, ink, and
penmanship were consistent with both the period when it was written as
well as with Anne Frank's other writings. For details, see Anne Frank and
Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation (1989). The Diary of
Anne Frank, The Critical Edition. Doubleday. ISBN 0-385-24023-6.
Otherwise, some pages of the diary were on exhibit in a glass case at the
Anne Frank House in Amsterdam the last time I visited. They were written
with a fountainpen.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Jason P
For editorial notes, not the rewriting of the main textual body...
>>
>> You have not presented any factual supports to actualize your assertions
>> that the ballpoint was not generally used in the Frank "journal" at the
>> time
>> of its writing. If the ballpoint entries were indeed later editorial
>> notes,
>> there should be ample notes to support that idea. Your thesis is sloppy,
>> the
>> syllogisms spotty and iffy.
> <deletions>
>
> The Dutch Institute for War Documentation conducted a forensic examination
> of Anne Frank's original manuscripts, concluding that the paper, ink, and
> penmanship were consistent with both the period when it was written as
> well as with Anne Frank's other writings. For details, see Anne Frank and
> Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation (1989). The Diary of
> Anne Frank, The Critical Edition. Doubleday. ISBN 0-385-24023-6.
>
i.e. applicable passages ???
> Otherwise, some pages of the diary were on exhibit in a glass case at the
> Anne Frank House in Amsterdam the last time I visited. They were written
> with a fountainpen.
>
Waterproof ink I suppose, too?
Jason P
"RJ11" <RJ...@nospam.org> wrote in message news:hst6qb$1ck$1...@pcls6.std.com...
With Ben...??? Hardly!
The Peeler
He doesn't come across as such at all to any half-way intelligent and decent
person, screeching Cramer! Actually quite the opposite: he comes across as a
quietly arguing, sensible and knowledgeable person that never descends to
your level!
As is always the case with you rabid racists and Nazi characters, you
consistently see everything in your "enemies" what you are YOURSELVES. Has
been like that with your sort in the past (the Nazis were EVERYTHING they
saw in "the Jews") and is still the same today. So, if you want to learn
something about yourself: read your own descriptions of "the Jews" or
anyone else you hate with a vengeance! <BG>
Eugene Holman
<peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
<deletions>.
> He doesn't come across as such at all to any half-way intelligent and decent
> person, screeching Cramer! Actually quite the opposite: he comes across as a
> quietly arguing, sensible and knowledgeable person that never descends to
> your level!
Thank you for your support.
<deletions>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
The Peeler
My pleasure! I simply stated the obvious.
george
> He doesn't come across as such at all to any half-way intelligent and decent
> person, screeching Cramer! Actually quite the opposite: he comes across as a
> quietly arguing, sensible and knowledgeable person that never descends to
> your level!
Eugenes main sin as the nazis see it is where he presents unambiguous
evidence that they are wrong, that their claims are based upon lies.
And he does it without the schoolyard language of the nazi.
The Peeler
Exactly! Some of those loonies (Jason Pee foremost) though keep trying to
baffle everyone with their endlessly meandering verbose garbage and acting
the scholar. Naturally they get confused and enraged when they get
confronted with the real thing. ;-)
Alistair
It's the only support you've received. I guess you're so desperate for
support you will accept it from a clod such as this Greek clown?
Beggars cannot afford to be choosy.
Alistair
On May 18, 11:32 pm, The Peeler <peeling...@invalid.admin> wrote:
> He doesn't come across as such at all to any half-way intelligent and
> decent
> person, screeching Cramer! Actually quite the opposite: he comes across as
> a
> quietly arguing, sensible and knowledgeable person that never descends to
> your level!
>Eugenes main sin as the nazis see it is where he presents unambiguous
>evidence that they are wrong, that their claims are based upon lies.
I have seen no evidence of Holman having done anything like you ascribe to
him.
All I've witnessed from him is his screeching, his proof by assertion and
his absolute rage at having his opinions ignored or challenged.
I can see why you're impressed with him. You are obviously uneducated and
the fact that Holman is so desperate for support he communicates with you,
somehow makes you feel adequate.
Let me tell you - you're fooling yourself. Mediocrity would be a step up for
you.