Are M&Ms kosher?
Lisa Aaronson
>Insect-based dyes are commonly used in fruit juices, particularly the
>red ones like guava, passion-fruit, etc. I forget the name of the
>ingredient, but it is an insect-derivative.
>Now do you know what civet is and what it's in? You don't wanna know!
And I understand that the red dye in marichino cherries is made from the
internal organs of certain rodents.
Yechh...
Lisa
-------------------------------------
I still believe in all my dreams
And all that I can be
I'll learn from mistakes, do all that it takes
To make it eventually
'Cause I still believe in me.
- from the TV show "Fame"
Halibut
Distribution:
Thomas G. Shafer (tgsh...@mail.HiWAAY.net) wrote:
: How about we just scape the little "m's" off?
Now, that is the most intelligent thing I have heard yet on this
thread. Truly a Solomonic decision. Perhaps YOU are the Messiah?
Dave Mabo
>
> JF...@MACC.WISC.EDU (SUBMAIL) wrote:
>
> >> >Zephyr S. Grunschlag (zep...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
> >>
> >> >: The candy itself had always been kosher but the teeny-weeny-tiny M's
> >> >: which are printed on each 'melt in your mouth' candy had lard in them for the
> >> >: strangest reason. For years, Mars refused to remove the lard from the M's.
> >I think you are mistaken about the reason.
> >If I remember correctly, there was no lard.
> >The problem was the possible use of an insect-based dye.
> >You could check it out.
>
> Insect-based dyes are commonly used in fruit juices, particularly the
> red ones like guava, passion-fruit, etc. I forget the name of the
> ingredient, but it is an insect-derivative.
>
> Now do you know what civet is and what it's in? You don't wanna know!
My wife thinks it was insect derived dyes.
Harry Weiss
: zep...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Zephyr S. Grunschlag) wrote:
: >The switch from non-kosher to kosher American M&M's was the result of a very
: >amusing fact:
: > The candy itself had always been kosher but the teeny-weeny-tiny M's
: >which are printed on each 'melt in your mouth' candy had lard in them for the
: >strangest reason. For years, Mars refused to remove the lard from the M's.
: >Finally they relented last year.
: My understanding was that the reason was an insect-derived shellac was
: used to make the candy coating shiny (and crunchy?).
: Ask a candy-maker. It is not an uncommon practice.
Actually shellac is made from either insects or artificial means.
Shellac made from insects is not necessary non kosher. It was discussed
in the recent issue of of the Kashrus Information Bureau Newsletter put
out by Rabbi Eidlitz. In his book "Is It Kosher" he says shellac comes
from insect secretions. "While there are authorities who permit these
glazes on the grounds they are non-edible, there are other authorities
who forbid them."
When M&Ms first became kosher the OU said they may be used even without
an OU on the package. Perhaps there was more rumor than ingredients
problems. The only issue at first was lack of suprvision.
Harry
Harry Weiss
cvu$k...@cloner2.ix.netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Aaron D. Gross (aar...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Insect-based dyes are commonly used in fruit juices, particularly the
: red ones like guava, passion-fruit, etc. I forget the name of the
: ingredient, but it is an insect-derivative.
The ingredient is Carmine. It is a derivative of the Cochineal bug.
: Now do you know what civet is and what it's in? You don't wanna know!
Civet also known as Civet Absolute is made from cats.
There are other wierd sources of food additiives. Castoreum comes from
Beaver glands.
Ambergris comes from whale intestines.
In the last issue of the Kashrus Information Bureau newsletter there was
one other ingredient. (unforutunately I misplaced the newsletter and
forgot the name of the ingredient.) This was made from dead women.
Harry
Thomas G. Shafer
Re: claims to Messiahship. This only happens when I'm off my medication.
Tom
Warren Burstein
h = hal...@cnct.com (Halibut)
h: Isn't there a concept of "Bitul" there somewhere? That amount
h: must be infinitesimal.
lt: "Bitul" only counts if it was by accident, not on purpose.
That's right.
lt: You cannot purposely eat something that you suspect may have less
lt: than 1/60th mixture of treif in it.
As I understand it, you can purposely eat it if the less than 1/60th
treif was unintentionally introduced (as well as other conditions,
anyone who has a practical question should ask a rabbi).
--
/|/-\/-\ "In the Old Country, I was but a humble Jew.
|__/__/_/ Then I commiited aliya, and blimey, I became
|warren@ an Anglo-Saxon." -- Stuart Schoffman
/ itex.jct.ac.IL
Jonathan Baker
>Civet also known as Civet Absolute is made from cats.
>There are other wierd sources of food additiives. Castoreum comes from
>Beaver glands. Ambergris comes from whale intestines.
>In the last issue of the Kashrus Information Bureau newsletter there was
>one other ingredient. ... This was made from dead women.
Speaking of odd sources of substances... One of the hormones used in
fertility therapy is derived from the urine of post-menopausal women.
A major source for this hormone is convents - large numbers of older
women who are willing to do nice things for medical reasons. One (O)
woman I know was quite amused to be taking injections of "nun juice."
Jonathan Baker
ba...@sacco.nyu.edu
Gwen A Orel
one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
Gwen
--
"Live as one already dead." --Japanese saying
I live in fear of not being misunderstood.-- Oscar wilde
Hadass Eviatar
>
> Actually shellac is made from either insects or artificial means.
> Shellac made from insects is not necessary non kosher. It was discussed
> in the recent issue of of the Kashrus Information Bureau Newsletter put
> out by Rabbi Eidlitz. In his book "Is It Kosher" he says shellac comes
> from insect secretions. "While there are authorities who permit these
> glazes on the grounds they are non-edible, there are other authorities
> who forbid them."
Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
if it is made from the insect *bodies*, such as carmine, then I guess
it would be non-kosher. At least, I would hope so, as a vegetarian ...
Kol tuv, Hadass
--
Hadass Eviatar (XX) Email: evi...@ibd.nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada Phone: (204) 984 - 4535
Institute for Biodiagnostics Fax: (204) 984 - 5472
435 Ellice Avenue, Winnipeg, MB, R3B 1Y6 http://www.ibd.nrc.ca/~eviatar
Obligatory disclaimer: NRC wouldn't dream of saying a thing like that.
Joshua Sharf
: And I understand that the red dye in marichino cherries is made from the
: internal organs of certain rodents.
: Yechh...
There's a book by a fellow Eidlitz called "Is It Kosher?" which
has an appendix describing all sorts of horrendous ingredients
of this nature. Mmmmmmm.
: Lisa
--
jsh...@charm.net Joshua Sharf
Debra Fran Baker
>Medicine ingredients-- now, how does this work re/ Kashrut? Does
>one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
>a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
Medicine is not food. If the only source of a necessary medication is
non-kosher animals, so be it. No rabbi has any objections to the origins
of any fertility drug, for example.
Debra
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* For its ways are ways of pleasantness and all its paths are peace. *
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Debra Fran Baker dfb...@panix.com
Lisa Aaronson
>hjw...@netcom.com (Harry Weiss) writes:
And there is an estrogen tablet called Premarin, used mostly (but not
exclusively) for post-menapausal woman to replace lost hormones. It's made of
PREgnant MAre urINe.
Halibut
: And there is an estrogen tablet called Premarin, used mostly (but not
: exclusively) for post-menapausal woman to replace lost hormones. It's made of
: PREgnant MAre urINe.
And, there are animal rights advocates who argue that even THIS
is somehow abusing animals!!!
Harry Weiss
nitoba.ca>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Hadass Eviatar (evi...@ibd.nrc.ca) wrote:
: hjw...@netcom.com (Harry Weiss) wrote:
: >
: > Actually shellac is made from either insects or artificial means.
: > Shellac made from insects is not necessary non kosher. It was discussed
: > in the recent issue of of the Kashrus Information Bureau Newsletter put
: > out by Rabbi Eidlitz. In his book "Is It Kosher" he says shellac comes
: > from insect secretions. "While there are authorities who permit these
: > glazes on the grounds they are non-edible, there are other authorities
: > who forbid them."
: Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
: if it is made from the insect *bodies*, such as carmine, then I guess
: it would be non-kosher. At least, I would hope so, as a vegetarian ...
I hope I made it clear the question is about shelac not carmine. All
reilable sources say it is not kosher.
Harry
: Kol tuv, Hadass
Gwen A Orel
: >Medicine ingredients-- now, how does this work re/ Kashrut? Does
: >one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
: >a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
: Medicine is not food. If the only source of a necessary medication is
: non-kosher animals, so be it. No rabbi has any objections to the origins
: of any fertility drug, for example.
Well that's a relief. I've never even thought to inquire what is in
my arthritis medications. (RA, not old age kind; I am 31...)
Jerry B Altzman
Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> wrote:
>Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
I'm told that bee honey is actually questionable. Certainly most people
agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
mother's milk.
>Kol tuv, Hadass
//jbaltz
jerry b. altzman Entropy just isn't what it used to be +1 212 650 5617
jba...@columbia.edu jba...@sci.ccny.cuny.edu KE3ML (HEPNET) NEVIS::jbaltz
daniel wadler
> Medicine ingredients-- now, how does this work re/ Kashrut? Does
> one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
> a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
>
> Gwen
>
no question about it - take the medicine. halacha is ussually extremely
lenient when it comes to one's health
*******************************************************************************
*
Avinu, Av harachaman ham'racheim, racheim-na aleinu * Doni Wadler
vtein b'libeinu l'haveen ulhaskeel, l'shmoa lilmod *
ul'lameid, lishmor vla'asot ulikayeim et kol divrei * wad...@brachot.jct.ac.il
toratecha b'ahava. *
*
*******************************************************************************
Thomas G. Shafer
listed as "machine sorted animal parts."
YUM!
Tom
Lisa Aaronson
>In <4cc136$8...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) writes:
>>Medicine ingredients-- now, how does this work re/ Kashrut? Does
>>one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
>>a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
>Medicine is not food. If the only source of a necessary medication is
>non-kosher animals, so be it. No rabbi has any objections to the origins
>of any fertility drug, for example.
Usually, the only time there's an issue about the kashrut of medicine is on
Passover, when the prohibition of leavened products is much stricter than
regular, year-round kashrut.
Micha Berger
: I'm told that bee honey is actually questionable. Certainly most people
: agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
Yes, but we also feel that the term would not be used as a praise for
Israel unless all forms of "d'vash" were permissable. I don't know of
anyone who prohibits bee honey. Further, halachah considers it to be
a condensed form of pollen, and not a bee secretion. Perhaps someone
who knows more biology than I can explain.
: The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
: mother's milk.
Halachah does not consider people to be animals. For that matter human meat
is kosher, it is prohibited because it is disrespectful to the deceased.
However, canibalism would be not violate of kashrus. Despite the fact that
we don't chew cud (very often).
--
Micha Berger 201 916-0287 Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3255 days!
Ais...@haven.ios.com (16-Oct-86 - 5-Oct-95)
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Micha Berger
: Usually, the only time there's an issue about the kashrut of medicine is on
: regular, year-round kashrut.
This is because the prohibition includes leavening agents, which need not
be edible. This lead to the conclusion that even non-foods could be
prohibited.
(It is NOT because the prohibition extends to uses other than eating, as
the same would be true of mixing meat and milk. However, the prohibition
of meat and milk is against getting any benefit from an edible combination
of meat and milk.)
Even so, the subject is far from closed. Rabbi Frand holds that unflavored
solid medicines, i.e. pills, capsuls, inhalers, need not be checked for
leaven. The popular book by Rabbi Bloomenkrantz lists which pills do not
use a grain based starch.
Hadass Eviatar
>
> In article <4cbsm5$a...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
> Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> wrote:
> >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
>
> agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
>
Really? So how come the bee honey in my grocery has an OU on it? Also,
it may have been due to my faulty education (since I went to a secular
high school in Israel, we only had about three hours of Tanach and one
of Oral Law a week), but I never heard of "d'vash" being anything other
than bee honey.
> The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
> mother's milk.
Come now, Jerry, are you trying to start a flamewar about whether
Jewish mothers are animals? ;-)
Harry Weiss
: >In <4cc136$8...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) writes:
: >>Medicine ingredients-- now, how does this work re/ Kashrut? Does
: >>one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
: >>a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
: >Medicine is not food. If the only source of a necessary medication is
: >non-kosher animals, so be it. No rabbi has any objections to the origins
: >of any fertility drug, for example.
: Usually, the only time there's an issue about the kashrut of medicine is on
: Passover, when the prohibition of leavened products is much stricter than
: regular, year-round kashrut.
Taking medicine is not considered eating, thus non kosher medicines may
uusally be consumed (CYLOR). On Passover there is a prohbition against
having Chametz in one's possesion.
: Lisa
Thomas G. Shafer
recently Jews used pork insulin but I'm not sure a synthetic protein
produced by yeast in any more kosher. Of course we accept blood
transfusion and some of us have porcine mitral valves implanted.
Having dealt with multiple frustrating cases in my medical career re:
treatment refusal by Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc., it's
nice to see a group of people who sanctify human life and recognize that
Doctors and drug companies are trying to help them.
Tom
Harry Weiss
: Harry Weiss (hjw...@netcom.com) wrote:
: : Taking medicine is not considered eating, thus non kosher medicines may
: : having Chametz in one's possesion.
: ButI don't take my arthritis medications on fast day because I can't have
: water. Or does water to take pills not count either?
: Gwen
Check with your Rabbi. The law may be different on Rabbinical fast v.
Yom Kippur. I know that water to take pills is not counted as a drink
for the purpose of Bracha. No Bracha is made on water that is drank
solely to swallow a pill.
Harry
: --
Harry Weiss
: jba...@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (Jerry B Altzman) wrote:
: >
: > In article <4cbsm5$a...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
: > Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> wrote:
: > >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
: >
: > I'm told that bee honey is actually questionable. Certainly most people
: > agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
: >
: Really? So how come the bee honey in my grocery has an OU on it? Also,
: it may have been due to my faulty education (since I went to a secular
: high school in Israel, we only had about three hours of Tanach and one
: of Oral Law a week), but I never heard of "d'vash" being anything other
: than bee honey.
You are correct that Dvash is usually bee honey and that it is kosher.
The Torah in referring to the seven species says The land of wheat and
barley, and vine and fig, and pomegranate, the land of oil and honey,
Oil refers to olives and honey to dates.
: > The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
Harry Weiss
: In article <4cbsm5$a...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
: Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> wrote:
: >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
: I'm told that bee honey is actually questionable. Certainly most people
: agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
: The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
: mother's milk.
A human is not considered an animal in halachic terms. Milk from non
kosher animals is NOT kosher.
Harry
: >Kol tuv, Hadass
Joe Slater
>Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey.
Honey is in a special category. It is my understanding that Halacha views
it as concentrated nectar, rather than a secretion. Before making such a
broad statement you should investigate whether, for instance, royal jelly
is Kosher. That's certainly a secretion - do any Halachic authorities
permit it?
jds
--
j...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au | `You SHOULD have said "It's extremely
T: +61-3-525-8728 F: +61-3-562-0756 | kind of you to tell me all this" -
If all else fails try Dialix: | however, we'll suppose it said.'
j...@melb.dialix.oz.au | (The Red Queen)
Harry Weiss
nitoba.ca> <4cfans$5...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Joe Slater (j...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> writes:
: >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey.
: Honey is in a special category. It is my understanding that Halacha views
: it as concentrated nectar, rather than a secretion. Before making such a
: broad statement you should investigate whether, for instance, royal jelly
: is Kosher. That's certainly a secretion - do any Halachic authorities
: permit it?
What's a Royal Jelly?
: jds
Gwen A Orel
: Taking medicine is not considered eating, thus non kosher medicines may
: uusally be consumed (CYLOR). On Passover there is a prohbition against
: having Chametz in one's possesion.
ButI don't take my arthritis medications on fast day because I can't have
water. Or does water to take pills not count either?
Gwen
--
Jerry B Altzman
>> agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
>Really? So how come the bee honey in my grocery has an OU on it? Also,
I said "questionable" not "forbidden". Obviously modern decisors feel that
bee honey is OK. It wasn't always so clear.
>> The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
>> mother's milk.
>Come now, Jerry, are you trying to start a flamewar about whether
>Jewish mothers are animals? ;-)
Sorry. Read non-kosher animal as non-(kosher animal).
SUBMAIL
> Micha Berger (ais...@haven.ios.com) wrote:
>
> : Halachah does not consider people to be animals. For that matter human meat
> : is kosher, it is prohibited because it is disrespectful to the deceased.
> : However, canibalism would be not violate of kashrus. Despite the fact that
> : we don't chew cud (very often).
>
> Human meat is kosher?
No part of a human body is "meat."
It's not kosher meat and it's not nonkosher meat.
It is a different category altogether from meat.
Now can somebody cite the reference, please?
Halibut
: ButI don't take my arthritis medications on fast day because I can't have
: water. Or does water to take pills not count either?
I'm not an LOR, but I believe that one can take a very small
amount of water (one of the standard rabbinic measurements) with the
medication. Consult your LOR.
Halibut
Thomas G. Shafer
some real problems with my blood pressure medication. My rabbi suggested
that I check with my doctor and, on medical advice, I performed the most
recent fast by going on bread and water. It was, to me, spiritually
satisfying to do all I could do safely and it sure is easier to pray if
you don't try to faint every time you stand up.
Re: the arthritis medicine, check with your doctor. Lots of anti
inflammatories have to be taken with food in your stomach. Also, folks,
please take care because there are many medications which can cause
dangerous rebound reactions if you try to skip them for 24 hours.
So, as best I understand it, the golden rule of fasting is "When in doubt,
check with your Doctor." And, remember, if you are advised to use a
modified fast or not fast at all, even the act of getting medical advice
speaks highly for your love of G-d and His Mitzvot.
Tom
Hadass Eviatar
>
> Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> writes:
> >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey.
>
> Honey is in a special category. It is my understanding that Halacha views
> it as concentrated nectar, rather than a secretion. Before making such a
> broad statement you should investigate whether, for instance, royal jelly
> is Kosher. That's certainly a secretion - do any Halachic authorities
> permit it?
>
I don't know. But the statement wasn't that broad. I didn't say that
all insect secretions are kosher, I said that insect secretions, as
such, were not non-kosher, and gave a counter-example. Halacha may
view honey as not being an insect secretion, it is my understanding
(as a humble physicist), that biology views it otherwise.
The question about royal jelly is definitely interesting. I hope
somebody has an answer.
Lisa Aaronson
>: Really? So how come the bee honey in my grocery has an OU on it? Also,
>: it may have been due to my faulty education (since I went to a secular
>: high school in Israel, we only had about three hours of Tanach and one
>: of Oral Law a week), but I never heard of "d'vash" being anything other
>: than bee honey.
>You are correct that Dvash is usually bee honey and that it is kosher.
>The Torah in referring to the seven species says The land of wheat and
>barley, and vine and fig, and pomegranate, the land of oil and honey,
>Oil refers to olives and honey to dates.
But dvash (honey) in that verse refers to dates, and not what we call honey.
Hadass Eviatar
>
>
> nitoba.ca> <4cfans$5...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>
> Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
>
> : Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> writes:
> : >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey.
>
> : Honey is in a special category. It is my understanding that Halacha views
> : it as concentrated nectar, rather than a secretion. Before making such a
> : broad statement you should investigate whether, for instance, royal jelly
> : is Kosher. That's certainly a secretion - do any Halachic authorities
> : permit it?
>
>
>
It is a substance made by bees for nourishing those young who are
destined to become queens rather than workers. It is sold in health
food stores. I've never had any, which is why I can't tell you whether
it is kosher or not. Next time I'm in a HFS, I'll look for a hechser.
Of course, the absence of a hechshered product would not necessarily
mean that it was treif due to being an insect secretion.
Lisa Aaronson
>Micha Berger (ais...@haven.ios.com) wrote:
> Human meat is kosher?
No. It's neither kosher nor trayf. Neither is a table. Human flesh is not
considered food or an animal product. Mother's milk is not dairy, either.
It's forbidden for adults to drink, though.
Halibut
Distribution:
Thomas G. Shafer (tgsh...@mail.HiWAAY.net) wrote:
: Having dealt with multiple frustrating cases in my medical career re:
: treatment refusal by Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc., it's
: nice to see a group of people who sanctify human life and recognize that
: Doctors and drug companies are trying to help them.
I was there with you almost till the end of that paragraph.
But no. Drug companies are not trying to help people. Really.
Trust me on this one. They are trying to make profits for themselves. Not
that there's anything wrong with trying to make a profit. Or even, if you
are working for a drug company, with trying to make people believe that
you are concerned only with their well-being, in order to enable greater
future profits.
However, since I don't work for a drug company, I can tell you
that such a position is full of it.
Joe Slater
>Joe Slater (j...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
>: Honey is in a special category. It is my understanding that Halacha views
>: it as concentrated nectar, rather than a secretion. Before making such a
>: broad statement you should investigate whether, for instance, royal jelly
>: is Kosher. That's certainly a secretion - do any Halachic authorities
>: permit it?
>What's a Royal Jelly?
I am told that it is a milky-white substance secreted by certain worker
bees to feed the larvae destined to become queens. It is reputed to be
very good for one's health, despite the fact that it is regularly
implicated in the deaths of people with a history of allergies.
Louis Gamerman
: I'm told that bee honey is actually questionable. Certainly most people
: agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
You're right in a sense. Rashi says that it's OK, but he gives a
very puzzling comment that somehow, the insect merely transforms the
honey, but it not actually an insect secretion. His description is rather
puzzling...
Thomas G. Shafer
trying to help you." I should have said "medical researchers" maybe.
Truthfully the medical field is full of money grubbers, including
physicians. There are lots of people also who really desire in some way
to fight disease and help others. It is nice to be in a religion where
this compassion for others is recognized and I don't find myself stumbling
over a lot of "It's again' my religion" stuff in my quest.
This is especially true of Psychiatry down here in the "Bible Belt". I'm
regularly atacked by preachers, as we call them, (notice I didn't say
"ministers") who tell suicidally depressed people that they just need to
throw out their anti-depressants, stop talking to that crazy shrink and
"get right with the L-rd."
Thanks again folks for reinforcing that it really is perfect O.K. with the
L-rd that we try to help each other when we are sick and hurting, even to
the point of bending a few rules.
Have a good Shabbos, Tom
Harry Weiss
<lisa.937...@interport.net>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Lisa Aaronson (li...@interport.net) wrote:
: In article <hjweissD...@netcom.com> hjw...@netcom.com (Harry Weiss) writes:
: >: Really? So how come the bee honey in my grocery has an OU on it? Also,
: >: it may have been due to my faulty education (since I went to a secular
: >: high school in Israel, we only had about three hours of Tanach and one
: >: of Oral Law a week), but I never heard of "d'vash" being anything other
: >: than bee honey.
: >You are correct that Dvash is usually bee honey and that it is kosher.
: >The Torah in referring to the seven species says The land of wheat and
: >barley, and vine and fig, and pomegranate, the land of oil and honey,
: >Oil refers to olives and honey to dates.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: But dvash (honey) in that verse refers to dates, and not what we call honey.
That is what I said.
: Lisa
Samuel R. Kaplan
Harry Weiss <hjw...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>nitoba.ca> <4cfans$5...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>
>: Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> writes:
>: >Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey.
>
>: it as concentrated nectar, rather than a secretion. Before making such a
>: broad statement you should investigate whether, for instance, royal jelly
>: is Kosher. That's certainly a secretion - do any Halachic authorities
>: permit it?
>
>
>What's a Royal Jelly?
Charles.
--
*************************************************************************
Sam Kaplan
"Maturity is no longer seeing every passing temptation
as a missed opportunity."
Aaron D. Gross
>In article <4cbsm5$a...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
>Hadass Eviatar <evi...@ibd.nrc.ca> wrote:
>>Insect secretions are certainly not non-kosher. Look at honey. But
>I'm told that bee honey is actually questionable. Certainly most people
>agree that the "d'vash" in the Torah is date-honey, I believe.
>The other common excretion of a non-kosher animal taken by Jews is
>mother's milk.
Which is kosher for children to take directly. Adults are proscribed
from direct consumption (must be via intermediate vessel) due to "ever
min hachai", I seem to recall.
Hadass Eviatar
>
> In article <hjweissD...@netcom.com> hjw...@netcom.com (Harry Weiss) writes:
>
> >: Really? So how come the bee honey in my grocery has an OU on it? Also,
> >: it may have been due to my faulty education (since I went to a secular
> >: high school in Israel, we only had about three hours of Tanach and one
> >: of Oral Law a week), but I never heard of "d'vash" being anything other
> >: than bee honey.
>
> >You are correct that Dvash is usually bee honey and that it is kosher.
> >The Torah in referring to the seven species says The land of wheat and
> >barley, and vine and fig, and pomegranate, the land of oil and honey,
> >Oil refers to olives and honey to dates.
>
>
>
How I love your certainties, Lisa. You are very likely right, as I
have been told the same thing by several people whose judgement I
respect. However, most of them do have the grace to say "I was taught"
or "I have always understood" or something of that sort. Of course
they believe it just as much as you do. But they give at least lip
service to the possiblity that somebody else might have discovered
something which calls their belief into doubt, on this particular
point. Not me, of course, I don't do Biblical research. But somebody
might. In the case of Harry's explanation above, he gives a good rational
reason for thinking that dvash in that verse in fact does refer to
date honey, so I'm inclined to believe it, and am most appreciative
of the education I am getting here. BTW, why did you correct him? You
are saying exactly the same thing he is, or else I need to have my
eyes checked.
Here is some unsolicited advice, as you know I am not inimical to you.
Try, just once or twice (if you really want to cause a ruckus on this
newsgroup), saying "Tradition tells us ...", or "<Source> taught us
that ..." I understand that "IMHO" is out of the question as these
are not your opinions but The Truth.
Kol tuv veshabbat shalom, Hadass
Warren Burstein
>Yes, but we also feel that the term would not be used as a praise for
>Israel unless all forms of "d'vash" were permissable.
But not all forms of milk are permissable. Not that I have any doubts
as to the kashrut of bee honey.
--
/|/-\/-\ If two half-slave-half-free people witness an ox
|__/__/_/ owned in partnership by a Jew and non-Jew gore a Coi
|warren@ bein hashmashot, in which state are the survivors
/ itex.jct.ac.IL buried?
Lisa Aaronson
><4cfnh3$h...@parlor.hiwaay.net>:
>Distribution:
>Thomas G. Shafer (tgsh...@mail.HiWAAY.net) wrote:
>: Having dealt with multiple frustrating cases in my medical career re:
>: treatment refusal by Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc., it's
>: nice to see a group of people who sanctify human life and recognize that
>: Doctors and drug companies are trying to help them.
> I was there with you almost till the end of that paragraph.
> But no. Drug companies are not trying to help people. Really.
>Trust me on this one. They are trying to make profits for themselves. Not
>that there's anything wrong with trying to make a profit. Or even, if you
>are working for a drug company, with trying to make people believe that
>you are concerned only with their well-being, in order to enable greater
>future profits.
True enough. And why should they be trying to help people? The fact is that
by their attempt to make profits, they *do* help people. The complaints most
people have are simply the result of the natural human tendancy to take things
for granted. When drug companies come out with a vaccine or something that
helps them, they're all teary-eyed gratitude. For about three weeks. Then
they start to discover that really, the vaccine is everyone's "right" and that
the drug company (without which they wouldn't have the drug in the first
place) is just vicious and anti-human for trying to make a profit off of it.
Halibut
Distribution:
Thomas G. Shafer (tgsh...@mail.HiWAAY.net) wrote:
: Really have to agree re: challenge to the statement "Drug companies are
: trying to help you." I should have said "medical researchers" maybe.
Well, I may have to disagree with you there too.
Certainly, for many of them, if they have an MD, having given up the
potentially lucrative (I say potentially because there are some changes
a-coming, which the AMA may be powerless to stop) medical career to help
people. But I believe there is also a good deal of waste, a lot of
unneeded and duplicate research going on, focused on "where the grant
money is."
Michael Shoshani
: >Micha Berger (ais...@haven.ios.com) wrote:
: >: Halachah does not consider people to be animals. For that matter human meat
: >: is kosher, it is prohibited because it is disrespectful to the deceased.
: >: However, canibalism would be not violate of kashrus. Despite the fact that
: >: we don't chew cud (very often).
: > Human meat is kosher?
: No. It's neither kosher nor trayf. Neither is a table. Human flesh is not
: considered food or an animal product. Mother's milk is not dairy, either.
: It's forbidden for adults to drink, though.
Actually, the Chofetz Chaim's "Sefer MaMitzvos" permits adult consumption
of human milk. It DOES prohibit an adult from suckling at the breast to
consume said human milk.
--
shos...@miso.wwa.com / i once heard the survivors of a colony of ants
Michael SB Shoshani / that had been partially obliterated by a cow s foot
Chicago IL, USA / seriously debating the intention of the gods
/ towards their civilization --archy
Binyamin Dissen
:>Medicine ingredients-- now, how does this work re/ Kashrut? Does
:>one not take unkosher medicines, even when they are prescribed for
:>a serious disease, and there are no substitutes?
:>
:>Gwen
:>
Of course. Even on Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement). The Torah says:
"You shall live by them (the laws)"
:>--
:>"Live as one already dead." --Japanese saying
:>
:>I live in fear of not being misunderstood.-- Oscar wilde
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@netvision.net.il>
daniel wadler
> >: Halachah does not consider people to be animals. For that matter human meat
> >: is kosher, it is prohibited because it is disrespectful to the deceased.
> >: However, canibalism would be not violate of kashrus. Despite the fact that
> >: we don't chew cud (very often).
>
> > Human meat is kosher?
>
> No. It's neither kosher nor trayf. Neither is a table. Human flesh is not
> considered food or an animal product. Mother's milk is not dairy, either.
> It's forbidden for adults to drink, though.
>
so according to "hakal kal t'chila" if someone who was starving had the
choice between neveila\treifa and human flesh, he must opt for the human
flesh.
*******************************************************************************
*
Avinu, Av harachaman ham'racheim, racheim-na aleinu * Doni Wadler
vtein b'libeinu l'haveen ulhaskeel, l'shmoa lilmod *
ul'lameid, lishmor vla'asot ulikayeim et kol divrei * wad...@brachot.jct.ac.il
toratecha b'ahava. *
*
*******************************************************************************
Amy Stewart
little cranky if I haven't had my chocolate! ;)
Aaron D. Gross
>Re: M&Ms . . . Are they kosher if taken for medicinal purposes? I get a
>little cranky if I haven't had my chocolate! ;)
Only the yellow ones.
Lisa Aaronson
>On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Lisa Aaronson wrote:
>> >: Halachah does not consider people to be animals. For that matter human meat
>> >: is kosher, it is prohibited because it is disrespectful to the deceased.
>> >: However, canibalism would be not violate of kashrus. Despite the fact that
>> >: we don't chew cud (very often).
>>
>> > Human meat is kosher?
>>
>> No. It's neither kosher nor trayf. Neither is a table. Human flesh is not
>> considered food or an animal product. Mother's milk is not dairy, either.
>> It's forbidden for adults to drink, though.
>>
>so according to "hakal kal t'chila" if someone who was starving had the
>choice between neveila\treifa and human flesh, he must opt for the human
>flesh.
Probably not. Because of kavod ha'met (respect for the dead). But CYLOR.