taking a jewish surname
Shadow
I'm new to this list. I was married to a gentile man for 27 years and
had a WASP surname.. I was pretty alienated from my Jewish heritage. I
still have big problems with the Jewish God (I prefer the Pagan Goddess,
to tell the truth. Let me be up front here.)
But nevertheless since my recent divorce I have become more interested
in idenfitying with my Jewish roots, and I have been thinking of taking
my maternal grandmother's surname Epstein. My relatives are saying
"hmmmmm....are you SURE you want to take a Jewish surname?" My mother
remembers the days when Jews had trouble getting jobs.
My question to you all is, "is there really that much anti-jewishness
these days, that it is advisable not to have a surname like "Epstein" if
you can help it?"
if anyone wants to comment, write me by e-mail...I'm not too good about
newsgroups.
Thanks,'
Laura Todd Epstein
tudorette
Hi Laura,
Well I see it as pro's and con's. In my profession I deal with many
religions and cultures. Having a jewish surname would make things more
diffcult. I rarely get asked about my religious beliefs at work
In my office we have a new manager one of the staff's last name is
RUBENSTIEN she is from russia. He asked me privately why she was have such
diffcult time in the russian market. He said "is it because she is jewish ?"
I told him no. He was very surprised to find out she wasn't jewish.
About 3 weeks later. I made a passing comment/joke about being the token
disabled and jewish person in the office. And he said " Your jewish ?"
Anyway long story short. You need to look at all sides. Being jewish is much
more then surname. It's a feeling within you. Ok here is another short
story. I have two older sisters, one converted to x-tain many years ago.
She still practices it.. Yet she is into jewish genaology (sp) and is very
well know ( so she says), she has even retaken the family name before it was
modernized. SCHLISSEL. Yet it does nothing for her.
IF your going to take a new name. Take a name that means something to you.
batchaim
David
(Hans) Frank and (Alfred) Rosenberg were two of the most evil men who
ever lived yet there are Jewish people wito have the same surname. Anne
Frank comes to mind.
Polar
wrote:
When the Jews of Germany were ordered to take "goyish" last names, of
course they took from what was around them.
When did this take place? Early 18th Century? Or earlier?
--
Polar
Herman Rubin
Polar <sme...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:27:40 -0700 (PDT), Ami...@webtv.net (David)
>wrote:
>>I never thought there were especially Jewish surnames. For instance
>>(Hans) Frank and (Alfred) Rosenberg were two of the most evil men who
>>ever lived yet there are Jewish people wito have the same surname. Anne
>>Frank comes to mind.
>When the Jews of Germany were ordered to take "goyish" last names, of
>course they took from what was around them.
They had to take last names supposedly not in Christian use.
There are lots of stories about what they had to do to avoid
getting "bad" ones.
>When did this take place? Early 18th Century? Or earlier?
Later.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Patricia Heil
surname.
mpfreed...@my-deja.com
1. Priestly status i.e. COHEN (the most common surname) and variants
like Kagan etc.,and LEVI and variants.
2. Specific Jewish (often ocupational) like Shulman, Chazzan,
Shamash, Shochet, Sofer, Kaddish and their variants.
3. Acronyms and abbreviations. e.g. KATZ = Cohen Tsedek, BABAD =
Ben Av Beth Din, SEGAL = Sgan Lekohanim (meaning deputy to the priests -
for a Levi, the latter with many variants.
Some other names are more often than not Jewish. Thus ADLER (German
for eagle) and RAPA (Italian for raven)with derivative RAPAPORT, were
often given to Cohanim to denote the way their hands are spread out
like the wings of these birds when they perform the Priestly Blessing.
What are usually thought of as Jewish names, like Rosenberg, are really
German in origin hence the apparent incongruity of an arch anti-Semite
bearing such a name
Murray Freedman
Leeds UK
In article <12250-39...@storefull-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Ami...@webtv.net (David) wrote:
> I never thought there were especially Jewish surnames. For instance
> (Hans) Frank and (Alfred) Rosenberg were two of the most evil men who
> ever lived yet there are Jewish people wito have the same surname.
Anne
> Frank comes to mind.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mpfreed...@my-deja.com
Surnames were first imposed on Jews in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in
1787 and in Napoleon dominated lands in 1808 with Prussia being some
time before then. In Russian dominated territories it may not have
been until the 1820's to 1830's.
Murray Freedman
Leeds UK
> >When the Jews of Germany were ordered to take "goyish" last names, of
> >course they took from what was around them.
>
> They had to take last names supposedly not in Christian use.
> There are lots of stories about what they had to do to avoid
> getting "bad" ones.
>
> >When did this take place? Early 18th Century? Or earlier?
>
> Later.
Mir Harven
>The only truly Jewish surnames fall into 3 categories;-
>
>1. Priestly status i.e. COHEN (the most common surname) and variants
>like Kagan etc.,and LEVI and variants.
>
>2. Specific Jewish (often ocupational) like Shulman, Chazzan,
>Shamash, Shochet, Sofer, Kaddish and their variants.
>
>3. Acronyms and abbreviations. e.g. KATZ = Cohen Tsedek, BABAD =
>Ben Av Beth Din, SEGAL = Sgan Lekohanim (meaning deputy to the priests -
>for a Levi, the latter with many variants.
>
>Some other names are more often than not Jewish. Thus ADLER (German
>for eagle) and RAPA (Italian for raven)with derivative RAPAPORT, were
>often given to Cohanim to denote the way their hands are spread out
>like the wings of these birds when they perform the Priestly Blessing.
>
>What are usually thought of as Jewish names, like Rosenberg, are really
>German in origin hence the apparent incongruity of an arch anti-Semite
>bearing such a name
>
>Murray Freedman
>Leeds UK
Interesting ( especially re Segal ), but:
given the fact that many Ashkenazi surnames are
essentially German, it's a tad bizarre that fewer Christian/Gentile
Germans ( Austrians, Swiss,..) bear "Jewesque" ( now, that's a
Wildean pun ) names than their Jewish ( former ) compatriots
( or their scattered progeny across the globe ).
Why are there so few Gentiles with surnames like:
Weill, Silberstein, Fleischmann, Rosenfeld, Frankfurter,
Blau, Roth, Saltzmann, Bloch, Friedmann, Berlin,
Weiss, Goldman, Marx, Bernstein, Kronstein, Kirschner
Deutscher....
Evidently, many surnames stand for:
a) color ( Blau, Weiss )
b) city/place ( Frankfurt )
c) metals ( probably due to some occupations )- ( Gold, Silber,.)
d) many end with -stein or -ner
e) some come in many mutations ( Bronstein, Bronson, Kron, Kronstein,
Kronfeld,..)
But: why there are less Gentile Germans with "stein" than Ashkenazi
Jews ?
Or- why gold or silver are almost exclusive "property" of Ashkenazi
Jews, unlike, say, English or Scotch Gentiles, where Silver surname
is nothing unusual ?
Just pondering...
Elisheva Chaya
"Patricia Heil" <pjay...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3971ADDA...@erols.com...
meirm...@erols.com
(Mir Harven) posted:
>On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:27:51 GMT, mpfreed...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>>The only truly Jewish surnames fall into 3 categories;-
>>
>>1. Priestly status i.e. COHEN (the most common surname) and variants
>>like Kagan etc.,and LEVI and variants.
>>
>>2. Specific Jewish (often ocupational) like Shulman, Chazzan,
>>Shamash, Shochet, Sofer, Kaddish and their variants.
>>
>>3. Acronyms and abbreviations. e.g. KATZ = Cohen Tsedek, BABAD =
>>Ben Av Beth Din, SEGAL = Sgan Lekohanim (meaning deputy to the priests -
>>for a Levi, the latter with many variants.
>>
>>Some other names are more often than not Jewish. Thus ADLER (German
>>for eagle) and RAPA (Italian for raven)with derivative RAPAPORT, were
>>often given to Cohanim to denote the way their hands are spread out
>>like the wings of these birds when they perform the Priestly Blessing.
Aha!
Also Duchen and another really obscure contracted variant I can't
think of now.
>>What are usually thought of as Jewish names, like Rosenberg, are really
>>German in origin hence the apparent incongruity of an arch anti-Semite
>>bearing such a name
>>
>>Murray Freedman
>>Leeds UK
>
>Interesting ( especially re Segal ), but:
I thought the L in Segal stood for levi'im. Would it stand for a
prefix?
>given the fact that many Ashkenazi surnames are
>essentially German, it's a tad bizarre that fewer Christian/Gentile
>Germans ( Austrians, Swiss,..) bear "Jewesque" ( now, that's a
>Wildean pun ) names than their Jewish ( former ) compatriots
>( or their scattered progeny across the globe ).
>Why are there so few Gentiles with surnames like:
Because of what Herman said?
>Weill, Silberstein, Fleischmann, Rosenfeld, Frankfurter,
>Blau, Roth, Saltzmann, Bloch, Friedmann, Berlin,
>Weiss, Goldman, Marx, Bernstein, Kronstein, Kirschner
Kirsch of course means cherry and not church! :)
My impression is anything ending in baum, also.
>Deutscher....
>Evidently, many surnames stand for:
>a) color ( Blau, Weiss )
AIUI, four of the most common names were/are Weiss, Schwartz, Gross,
and Klein, assigned by some clerk or some baron?'s assistant.
>b) city/place ( Frankfurt )
Because more Jews moved from cities and more gentile Germans named
themselves from small towns they had come from??? Just a guess.
OTOH, my mother's name Alpert may come from the town in Spain where
that side of the family came from.
>c) metals ( probably due to some occupations )- ( Gold, Silber,.)
>d) many end with -stein or -ner
>e) some come in many mutations ( Bronstein, Bronson, Kron, Kronstein,
>Kronfeld,..)
>But: why there are less Gentile Germans with "stein" than Ashkenazi
>Jews ?
>Or- why gold or silver are almost exclusive "property" of Ashkenazi
>Jews, unlike, say, English or Scotch Gentiles, where Silver surname
>is nothing unusual ?
>Just pondering...
All but e, because being a jeweler wasn't something gentile Germans
did???
Does anyone know about Eichenbrot? Don't know if it is a Jewish name,
but I'm curious if it means Oak Bread, what kind of bread that is.
mei...@QQQerols.com
e-mail by removing QQQ
meirm...@erols.com
hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) posted:
>In article <bcg2ns03343ga1c74...@4ax.com>,
>Polar <sme...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:27:40 -0700 (PDT), Ami...@webtv.net (David)
>>wrote:
>
>>>I never thought there were especially Jewish surnames. For instance
>>>(Hans) Frank and (Alfred) Rosenberg were two of the most evil men who
>>>ever lived yet there are Jewish people wito have the same surname. Anne
>>>Frank comes to mind.
>
>>When the Jews of Germany were ordered to take "goyish" last names, of
>>course they took from what was around them.
>
>They had to take last names supposedly not in Christian use.
Well that accounts for it. My impression has been that most
German-language names used by Jews are not used much by Germans. Of
course I might have a different impression if I lived in Milwaukee
where I would meet more German-Americans.
Frank is an exception afaict in that about half the American Franks
are Jewish and about half not.
>There are lots of stories about what they had to do to avoid
>getting "bad" ones.
Are there any Germans with the name Sonenschein? (sunshine). I've
only heard it for Jews, maybe because it doesn't fit the format for
most last names: occupation, location...
>
>>When did this take place? Early 18th Century? Or earlier?
>
>Later.
Elisheva Chaya
thesis on the Jewish history of Charleston, SC (where I live). Part of the
research involved going through old city directories and counting the number
of Jews listed each year (not an easy task!). I'm talking about late
nineteenth, early twentieth century here. It was necessary to use synagogue
records, oral history records, and too many other records to name just to
determine who was Jewish. (I was counting the number of Jewish merchants on
a particular street in Charleston). The reason for this was precisely that
no one surname is necessarily Jewish unless it is Cohen or Levy (or others
mentioned in an above post).
I did have problems with some names that could be either just German or
Jewish, such as Myer or Myers; a few Myers proved to be Jewish, but there
was at least one who was not, as well as many Myer (s) who were not.
Another name like that was Marks. On the other hand, Schwartzberg proved to
not be Jewish, while Needle and Johnston were. Point being: there really is
no way of telling.
Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name came from
a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell based on these names
alone.
I do think it can also differ from location to location. In Charleston
everybody named Livingston or Livingstain is Jewish, while in other places I
have been this doesn't seem to be the case.
BTW, somebody mentioned the name Sonenshine (spelled differently) earlier.
Here there is the same name, listed alternately as Zonenshine, Sonenshine,
and Sunshine. I find that interesting since I've never heard it anywhere
else before.
Anyway, I could go on all day about this. Sorry it is so long. Anybody who
is interested in this kind of local history, please feel free to contact
me...I would love some discussion on the topic!
Elisheva
meirm...@erols.com
Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> posted:
>I did have problems with some names that could be either just German or
>Jewish, such as Myer or Myers; a few Myers proved to be Jewish, but there
>was at least one who was not, as well as many Myer (s) who were not.
I noticed that. Meyers is likely to be Jewish however. I can't
account for this one, but I think I know why Polish names end in i and
Jewish names in y. Whatever is i in the Polish alphabet (i?)
transliterates to i in English, but Jews wrote in Yiddish and ended
their names with a Yud, pronounced the same, but transliterated to a
Y.
>Another name like that was Marks. On the other hand, Schwartzberg proved to
>not be Jewish, while Needle and Johnston were. Point being: there really is
>no way of telling.
OTOH I know of a Jewish Schartzbaum. There's that baum thing. I know
a Needle too but haven't asked him about his name.
>
>BTW, somebody mentioned the name Sonenshine (spelled differently) earlier.
>Here there is the same name, listed alternately as Zonenshine, Sonenshine,
>and Sunshine. I find that interesting since I've never heard it anywhere
>else before.
Baltimore. There are a lot of Jewish and non-Jewish names I never
heard before Baltimore. Yingling is in the second category. One and a
half columns in the phone book.
>Anyway, I could go on all day about this. Sorry it is so long. Anybody who
>is interested in this kind of local history, please feel free to contact
>me...I would love some discussion on the topic!
Post or write, ok by me.
>
>Elisheva
Mir Harven
Not convincing "enuf".
>
>>Weill, Silberstein, Fleischmann, Rosenfeld, Frankfurter,
>>Blau, Roth, Saltzmann, Bloch, Friedmann, Berlin,
>>Weiss, Goldman, Marx, Bernstein, Kronstein, Kirschner
>
>Kirsch of course means cherry and not church! :)
Aber, natuerlich.
>My impression is anything ending in baum, also.
Tannenbaum, Zederbaum or Martov, the Menshevik
gentle boss, Lenin's best friend. Also- why all these trees ?
>>Deutscher....
>>Evidently, many surnames stand for:
>>a) color ( Blau, Weiss )
>
>AIUI, four of the most common names were/are Weiss, Schwartz, Gross,
>and Klein, assigned by some clerk or some baron?'s assistant.
>
>>b) city/place ( Frankfurt )
>
>Because more Jews moved from cities and more gentile Germans named
>themselves from small towns they had come from??? Just a guess.
>OTOH, my mother's name Alpert may come from the town in Spain where
>that side of the family came from.
As I recall, the late Carl Sagan wrote something on Sagan
village in Silesia ( or something ).
>>c) metals ( probably due to some occupations )- ( Gold, Silber,.)
>>d) many end with -stein or -ner
>>e) some come in many mutations ( Bronstein, Bronson, Kron, Kronstein,
>>Kronfeld,..)
>>But: why there are less Gentile Germans with "stein" than Ashkenazi
>>Jews ?
>>Or- why gold or silver are almost exclusive "property" of Ashkenazi
>>Jews, unlike, say, English or Scotch Gentiles, where Silver surname
>>is nothing unusual ?
>>Just pondering...
>All but e, because being a jeweler wasn't something gentile Germans
>did???
Not Gentile Germans ( GGs) as jewelers ? Doubt it.
>Does anyone know about Eichenbrot? Don't know if it is a Jewish name,
>but I'm curious if it means Oak Bread, what kind of bread that is.
Try http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran
or http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/rbeard/diction3.html
Mir Harven
<alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>This is a particularly interesting topic to me as I recently completed a
>thesis on the Jewish history of Charleston, SC (where I live). Part of the
>research involved going through old city directories and counting the number
>of Jews listed each year (not an easy task!). I'm talking about late
>nineteenth, early twentieth century here. It was necessary to use synagogue
>records, oral history records, and too many other records to name just to
>determine who was Jewish. (I was counting the number of Jewish merchants on
>a particular street in Charleston). The reason for this was precisely that
>no one surname is necessarily Jewish unless it is Cohen or Levy (or others
>mentioned in an above post).
>I did have problems with some names that could be either just German or
>Jewish, such as Myer or Myers; a few Myers proved to be Jewish, but there
>was at least one who was not, as well as many Myer (s) who were not.
>Another name like that was Marks. On the other hand, Schwartzberg proved to
>not be Jewish, while Needle and Johnston were. Point being: there really is
>no way of telling.
>Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name came from
>a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell based on these names
>alone.
>I do think it can also differ from location to location. In Charleston
>everybody named Livingston or Livingstain is Jewish, while in other places I
>have been this doesn't seem to be the case.
Dr. Livingston, I presume ?
>BTW, somebody mentioned the name Sonenshine (spelled differently) earlier.
>Here there is the same name, listed alternately as Zonenshine, Sonenshine,
>and Sunshine. I find that interesting since I've never heard it anywhere
>else before.
Here, in Croatia, we've had a fine translator from German to Croatian,
Viktor Sonnenfeld ( Hegel & all that jazz ). This "sunny" surname is,
IMO, if not exclusively, at least prevalently Jewish.
Sonnenschein
Sonnenfeld
Sonnenman
Sonnen
Sonne
....
>Anyway, I could go on all day about this. Sorry it is so long. Anybody who
>is interested in this kind of local history, please feel free to contact
>me...I would love some discussion on the topic!
>
>Elisheva
>
>
David
meirm...@erols.com
(Mir Harven) posted:
BTW, they have a Croatian doctor on ER. I don't know where they send
the syndication these days.
>>
>>>Weill, Silberstein, Fleischmann, Rosenfeld, Frankfurter,
>>>Blau, Roth, Saltzmann, Bloch, Friedmann, Berlin,
>>>Weiss, Goldman, Marx, Bernstein, Kronstein, Kirschner
>>
>>Kirsch of course means cherry and not church! :)
>
>Aber, natuerlich.
>
>>My impression is anything ending in baum, also.
>
>Tannenbaum, Zederbaum or Martov, the Menshevik
>gentle boss, Lenin's best friend. Also- why all these trees ?
>
Never met a Zederbaum. It's not in either side of my dictionary, but I
assume it is cedar?
Have met Tannenbaum, Appelbaum, Lindenbaum, and Kirschbaum. I don't
know why the trees. Like Herman said, locals hadn't used trees???
Who names himself after a tree, except for Johny Appleseed. (There
was a special committee to choose street names for Columbia Md. built
by Rouse Corp. They have names like Thunderhill Road, Wishing Bridge,
Departed Sunset Lane, and Sternwheel Place. Why? Because the
committee wasn't allowed to use any street name that existed in
Washington DC or Baltimore.
>
>
>>>c) metals ( probably due to some occupations )- ( Gold, Silber,.)
>>>d) many end with -stein or -ner
>>All but e, because being a jeweler wasn't something gentile Germans
>>did???
>
>Not Gentile Germans ( GGs) as jewelers ? Doubt it.
It was just a guess too.
>
>>Does anyone know about Eichenbrot? Don't know if it is a Jewish name,
>>but I'm curious if it means Oak Bread, what kind of bread that is.
>
>Try http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran
OK, n in eiche is plural, oak trees. But what does Eichenbrot mean
and if it is Oaks Bread, what is oaks bread?
>or http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/rbeard/diction3.html
Now called www.yourdictionary.com but not available yet.
Also www.babelfish.com.
Susan Cohen
meirm...@erols.com wrote:
> Frank is an exception afaict in that about half the American Franks
> are Jewish and about half not.
That's probably got as much to do with immigration procedures
as anything else.
Susan
Adelle Stavis
<meirm...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:mrp3ns4s4smodcsc9...@4ax.com...
> In soc.culture.jewish on Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:12:35 GMT mha...@gmx.at
> (Mir Harven) posted:
>
> >Blau, Roth, Saltzmann, Bloch, Friedmann, Berlin,
> >Weiss, Goldman, Marx, Bernstein, Kronstein, Kirschner
>
> Kirsch of course means cherry and not church! :)
>
> >Evidently, many surnames stand for:
> >a) color ( Blau, Weiss )
>
> AIUI, four of the most common names were/are Weiss, Schwartz, Gross,
> and Klein, assigned by some clerk or some baron?'s assistant.
>
> >b) city/place ( Frankfurt )
>
> Because more Jews moved from cities and more gentile Germans named
> themselves from small towns they had come from??? Just a guess.
>
> OTOH, my mother's name Alpert may come from the town in Spain where
> that side of the family came from.
>
> >d) many end with -stein or -ner
> >Kronfeld,..)
> >But: why there are less Gentile Germans with "stein" than Ashkenazi
> >Jews ?
> >Or- why gold or silver are almost exclusive "property" of Ashkenazi
> >Jews, unlike, say, English or Scotch Gentiles, where Silver surname
> >is nothing unusual ?
> >Just pondering...
> did???
>
> but I'm curious if it means Oak Bread, what kind of bread that is.
Bread from acorn flour perhaps?
Adelle Stavis
Elisheva Chaya
<meirm...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:c4h4nsg0vk9j23bp4...@4ax.com...
> In soc.culture.jewish on Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:45:03 GMT mha...@gmx.at
> (Mir Harven) posted:
> snip a lot
>
>Have met Tannenbaum, Appelbaum, Lindenbaum, and Kirschbaum. I don't
> know why the trees.
what kind of tree is kirsch??
What about Lindenblatt? What does that mean? (That's a local rabbi's name
BTW)
My mother's maiden name is Nussbaum - nut tree.
Elisheva
Harry Weiss
Organization:
Elisheva Chaya <alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: <meirm...@erols.com> wrote in message
: news:c4h4nsg0vk9j23bp4...@4ax.com...
:> In soc.culture.jewish on Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:45:03 GMT mha...@gmx.at
:> (Mir Harven) posted:
:> snip a lot
:>
:>Have met Tannenbaum, Appelbaum, Lindenbaum, and Kirschbaum. I don't
:> know why the trees.
: what kind of tree is kirsch??
cherryt
: What about Lindenblatt? What does that mean? (That's a local rabbi's name
: BTW)
: My mother's maiden name is Nussbaum - nut tree.
: Elisheva
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@netcom.com
Noach
"Mir Harven" <mha...@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:3971d0e0...@news.tel.hr...
> Or- why gold or silver are almost exclusive "property" of Ashkenazi
> Jews, unlike, say, English or Scotch Gentiles, where Silver surname
> is nothing unusual ?
Didn't the great CUNY historian Dr. Leonard Jeffries (y'mach shmo v'zichro)
expound upon this?
meirm...@erols.com
Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> posted:
P&M
>
><meirm...@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:c4h4nsg0vk9j23bp4...@4ax.com...
>> In soc.culture.jewish on Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:45:03 GMT mha...@gmx.at
>> (Mir Harven) posted:
>> snip a lot
>>
>>Have met Tannenbaum, Appelbaum, Lindenbaum, and Kirschbaum. I don't
>> know why the trees.
>
>what kind of tree is kirsch??
Cherry. Isn't there a cherry filled chocolate with a similar name???
>What about Lindenblatt? What does that mean? (That's a local rabbi's name
>BTW)
Linden leaf, as in a blat gemora (one leaf of a book). I thought it
referred to the linden tree, and linden is Anglo Saxon, but my
Langenscheidt German dictionary says it's a lime tree! But babelfish
says lime is kalk and linden is linden. Isn't that darling?
>My mother's maiden name is Nussbaum - nut tree.
How could I forget that one!!!
And Mandelbaum. How many people know what's the title ingredient in
mandelbread?
And Feigenbaum. Do you know that one?
And Greenbaum. That sounds generic but maybe it's an evergreen.
And Kestenbaum. Chestnut tree.
And Birnbaum. Pear tree.
Is there a Weidenbaum? Willow tree.
I think the Jews got all the trees!
And most of the leaves!
>Elisheva
Polar
<alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name came from
>a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell based on these names
>alone.
[...]
There's "Cohan", which I believe is Irish. As in George M. Cohan.
I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...
--
Polar
Mir Harven
>In soc.culture.jewish on Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:45:03 GMT mha...@gmx.at
>(Mir Harven) posted:
>
>BTW, they have a Croatian doctor on ER. I don't know where they send
>the syndication these days.
Things fall apart...
>>>>Weill, Silberstein, Fleischmann, Rosenfeld, Frankfurter,
>>>>Blau, Roth, Saltzmann, Bloch, Friedmann, Berlin,
>>>>Weiss, Goldman, Marx, Bernstein, Kronstein, Kirschner
>>>
>>>Kirsch of course means cherry and not church! :)
>>
>>Aber, natuerlich.
>>
>>>My impression is anything ending in baum, also.
>>
>>Tannenbaum, Zederbaum or Martov, the Menshevik
>>gentle boss, Lenin's best friend. Also- why all these trees ?
>>
>Never met a Zederbaum.
Originally, it's Cederbaum. Usually, in non-Russian books
on Lenin, it's transliterated as "Zederbaum".
> It's not in either side of my dictionary, but I
>assume it is cedar?
? Guess so.
>Have met Tannenbaum, Appelbaum,
Yeah, this one is pretty ubiquitous.
> Lindenbaum, and Kirschbaum.
>> I don't
>know why the trees. Like Herman said, locals hadn't used trees???
Now....why not bushes, flowers, ...all the flora.
Blum, ..Btw; the "thal" ending- Sonnenthal, Blumenthal,
Ehrenthal,..
>Who names himself after a tree, except for Johny Appleseed. (There
>was a special committee to choose street names for Columbia Md. built
>by Rouse Corp. They have names like Thunderhill Road, Wishing Bridge,
>Departed Sunset Lane, and Sternwheel Place. Why? Because the
>committee wasn't allowed to use any street name that existed in
>Washington DC or Baltimore.
That's the bureaucratic idea of "creativity".
>
>OK, n in eiche is plural, oak trees. But what does Eichenbrot mean
>and if it is Oaks Bread, what is oaks bread?
>
>>or http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/rbeard/diction3.html
>
>Now called www.yourdictionary.com but not available yet.
Aha. Thanx.
Mir Harven
>In soc.culture.jewish on Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:30:53 GMT "Elisheva
>Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> posted:
>
>P&M
>>
>><meirm...@erols.com> wrote in message
>>news:c4h4nsg0vk9j23bp4...@4ax.com...
>>> In soc.culture.jewish on Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:45:03 GMT mha...@gmx.at
>>> (Mir Harven) posted:
>>> snip a lot
>>>
>>>Have met Tannenbaum, Appelbaum, Lindenbaum, and Kirschbaum. I don't
>>> know why the trees.
>>
>>what kind of tree is kirsch??
>
>Cherry. Isn't there a cherry filled chocolate with a similar name???
>
>>What about Lindenblatt? What does that mean? (That's a local rabbi's name
>>BTW)
>
>Linden leaf, as in a blat gemora (one leaf of a book). I thought it
>referred to the linden tree, and linden is Anglo Saxon, but my
>Langenscheidt German dictionary says it's a lime tree! But babelfish
>says lime is kalk and linden is linden. Isn't that darling?
>
>>My mother's maiden name is Nussbaum - nut tree.
>
>How could I forget that one!!!
>
>And Mandelbaum. How many people know what's the title ingredient in
>mandelbread?
>
>And Feigenbaum. Do you know that one?
Mitchell Feigenbaum, One of the chaos theory originators.
Probably Jewish, but not certainly. A Goethe fan.
Btw; it reminds me of fractals' Mandelbrot.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> "Elisheva Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name
>>came from a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell
>>based on these names alone.
>
> [...]
>
> There's "Cohan", which I believe is Irish. As in George M. Cohan.
>
> I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...
And you're sure he wasn't Jewish because...?
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to be happy always! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
Herman Rubin
>Polar <sme...@mindspring.com> writes:
>> "Elisheva Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>>>Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name
>>>came from a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell
>>>based on these names alone.
[...]
>> There's "Cohan", which I believe is Irish. As in George M. Cohan.
>> I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...
>And you're sure he wasn't Jewish because...?
I had a teacher whose name was Keohane. Anglicize the Gaelic.
This does not prove that he was not Jewish. There is the
story about the Jew who received the name "Shane Ferguson"
at Ellis Island. Non-Jewish names also got altered there.
mpfreed...@my-deja.com
"Elisheva Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name
came from
> a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell based on
these names
> alone.
A third of the COHEN names listed in our local phone book are
definitely non-Jewish. Usually it is the result of intermarriage but
many are also of Irish origin and it is the transliteration of an Irish
name like Keoghane which I believe stems from the west of County Cork.
I deal with many Jewish genealogical enquiries - many from non_Jews
asking about Jewish grandparents or great grandparents. It is amazing
how often they have retained a typically Jewish name - and are often
very proud of it. With intermarriage rates high we may end up with a
situation in a couple of generations when most bearers of Jewish names
will be non-Jewish !!
On this side of the pond in England anglicisation of Jewish names (the
bane of life of Jewish genealogists)has taken place at a much greater
extent than in North America. The Jews who have risen to high posts in
Government here in recent years had all acquired typical non-Jewish
names like HOWARD, BRITTEN and LAWSON (that doesn't fool most people -
they are still known as Jewish). Only one kept a Jewish name -Malcolm
RIFKIND (the child of Rivka). Incidentally, this is an example of
another category of Jewish names to add to the three I posted the other
day. Others of this type are DVORKIN or DWORKIN -the child of Devorah
(Andrea would be pleased to learn this), SORKIN (the child of Soroh or
Sarah), and LAIKIN (the child of Leah).
For anyone wanting to delve further into this fascinating subject I
recommend "A Dictionary of Surnames" by Hanks and Hodges. On this side
of the pond it can be found in all good reference sections of libraries.
It has a very large Jewish input including an excellent essay on Jewish
names by an Israeli expert.
Murray Freedman
Leeds UK
Elisheva Chaya
>
> Now....why not bushes, flowers, ...all the flora.
> Blum, ..Btw; the "thal" ending- Sonnenthal, Blumenthal,
> Ehrenthal,..
>
Rosenthal, Lilienthal, etc. etc.
Lots of other common endings, like "man" and "witz"
e.g. Grossman, Friedman, Pearlman, Horowitz, Berkowitz, etc.
I do wonder where these names come from. Names like Prystowsky, Berlinsky,
Libator, Lapin....so many that just don't really fit into catagories, but
they had to come from somewhere.
My grandmother's name is Krawcheck; don't know about that either.
I don't know much about the history of surnames...like when people first
took them, etc. Could somebody point me to a good resource? thanks
Elisheva
Elisheva Chaya
the father's name in Cohen or Levi, for example, but the mother isn't
Jewish....
But, like I said earlier, my last name is Scotch-Irish (Douglas). And I'm
most definately Jewish!
Elisheva
"Herman Rubin" <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:8kv20m$j...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> In article <2000Jul1...@mm.huji.ac.il>, <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
> >Polar <sme...@mindspring.com> writes:
> >> "Elisheva Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >>>Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name
> >>>came from a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell
> >>>based on these names alone.
>
Mir Harven
<alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Mir Harven" <mha...@gmx.at> wrote in message
>news:3972de0...@news.tel.hr...
>> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:48:23 -0400, meirm...@erols.com wrote:
>>snip
>>
>> Now....why not bushes, flowers, ...all the flora.
>> Blum, ..Btw; the "thal" ending- Sonnenthal, Blumenthal,
>> Ehrenthal,..
>>
>
>Rosenthal, Lilienthal, etc. etc.
>
>Lots of other common endings, like "man" and "witz"
>e.g. Grossman, Friedman, Pearlman, Horowitz, Berkowitz, etc.
"man" are evident- man. itz is essentially Slavic
ending, a bit changed. Just take Russian Markov,
Croatian and Serbian Markovic ( pronounced Markovich )
and put it into germanized form: Markovitz.
>
>I do wonder where these names come from. Names like Prystowsky, Berlinsky,
>Libator, Lapin....so many that just don't really fit into catagories, but
>they had to come from somewhere.
-ski, -sky...eastern Slavic ( Polish, Ukrainian, ( White ) Russian,..)
Also, Russian -kin: Fradkin, Lipkin.
>My grandmother's name is Krawcheck; don't know about that either.
Pretty common name from the Adriatic to the Middle Europe.
Kravcik, Kravcek,...I know it's a tad embarrassing, but since
krava is a cow, and chek is a diminutive form for someone
( not an animal ), it's probably a little shepherd. Just a guess.
>
>I don't know much about the history of surnames...like when people first
>took them, etc. Could somebody point me to a good resource? thanks
>
Go to http://www.maven.co.il/
and type genealogy into search window.
>Elisheva
>
>
Susan Cohen
Polar wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:38:12 GMT, "Elisheva Chaya"
> <alth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >Actually, I have met a Cohen who wasn't Jewish. Certainly the name came from
> >a male ancestor who was Jewish, but you can't even tell based on these names
> >alone.
>
> [...]
>
> There's "Cohan", which I believe is Irish. As in George M. Cohan.
>
> I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...
Ah, or, as a quote from one of my favorite movies goes:
John Wayne is rolled into the sleepy Irish town on the back
of a wagon, driven by Barry Fitzgerald. He glanes up at the
pub name. Barry pipes up, "Eh, *here*, we pronounce it
"Co-HAN"!" (fr. "The Quiet Man")
The hubby and I always get a chuckle out of that one
Susan
meirm...@erols.com
Chaya" <alth...@hotmail.com> posted:
>
>"Mir Harven" <mha...@gmx.at> wrote in message
>news:3972de0...@news.tel.hr...
>> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:48:23 -0400, meirm...@erols.com wrote:
>>snip
>>
>> Now....why not bushes, flowers, ...all the flora.
>> Blum, ..Btw; the "thal" ending- Sonnenthal, Blumenthal,
>> Ehrenthal,..
>>
>
>Rosenthal, Lilienthal, etc. etc.
As in Otto Lilienthal, the leading name in glider design. Killed in a
glider accident, however. Jewish and the basis for much of the Wright
Brothers' work.
>
>Lots of other common endings, like "man" and "witz"
>e.g. Grossman, Friedman, Pearlman, Horowitz, Berkowitz, etc.
>
Goldsmith, not Jewish. Goldman, Jewish. (Ever gentile?) Goldschmidt,
not Jewish. This must be what the gentile jewelers are called.
meirm...@erols.com
(Mir Harven) posted:
>>>
>>Never met a Zederbaum.
>
>Originally, it's Cederbaum. Usually, in non-Russian books
>on Lenin, it's transliterated as "Zederbaum".
But never met a Cedarbaum or Cederbaum either.
>Blum, ..Btw; the "thal" ending- Sonnenthal,
I think that is a ski resort. inside joke.
Elizabeth Levin
>> There's "Cohan", which I believe is Irish. As in George M. Cohan.
>>
>> I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...
> And you're sure he wasn't Jewish because...?
He was Jewish.
--
Elizabeth Levin
Joel N. Shurkin
Elizabeth Levin wrote:
No, he was Irish.
j
Susan Cohen
"Joel N. Shurkin" wrote:
Neither of which invalidates the other, thank you.
(& the Jewish Community of Ireland thanks you)
How do we know he was Jewish?
Susan
meirm...@erols.com
<fla...@hers.com> posted:
His name was Cohan. Would he go out without a hat on?
>
>Susan
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Elizabeth Levin wrote:
>> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> > Polar <sme...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>
>> >> There's "Cohan", which I believe is Irish. As in George M. Cohan.
>> >>
>> >> I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...
>>
>> > And you're sure he wasn't Jewish because...?
>>
>> He was Jewish.
>
> No, he was Irish.
And you say those two can't coexist because...? (Hint: At one time
the Lord Mayor of Dublin was Jewish and I assume Irish as well)
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: Elizabeth Levin wrote:
:> He was Jewish.
: No, he was Irish.
George M. Cohan wasn't Jewish, but being Irish does not automatically
prevent one from being Jewish. The synagogue to which I belong has an
Irish member, and former President of Israel Chaim (ne Vivien) Herzog
is a more famous example. And there's the Jerusalem Post correspondent
Arieh O'Sullivan, as well.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?"
Michael Morbius
> George M. Cohan wasn't Jewish, but being Irish does not automatically
> prevent one from being Jewish. The synagogue to which I belong has an
> Irish member, and former President of Israel Chaim (ne Vivien) Herzog
> is a more famous example. And there's the Jerusalem Post correspondent
> Arieh O'Sullivan, as well.
And Jon Lovitz's character in the Irish drinking song sketch on *Saturday
Night Live*.
Fred Rosenblatt
>Joel N. Shurkin <shu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>: Elizabeth Levin wrote:
>
>:> He was Jewish.
>
>: No, he was Irish.
>
>George M. Cohan wasn't Jewish, but being Irish does not automatically
>prevent one from being Jewish.
OK, this is probably another dumb question asked and answered a hundred
times, but is this just a coincidence?
Cohen - Jewish
Cohan - Irish
Khan - NE Asian
Kahuna - Pacific Islander
Kahuna might derive from Khan, as the PI's originally sailed from Asia.
But how did they come to mean "priest"?
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> In article <8l3rd4$49p$5...@news.huji.ac.il>, <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote:
>
>>Joel N. Shurkin <shu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>: Elizabeth Levin wrote:
>>
>>:> He was Jewish.
>>
>>: No, he was Irish.
>>
>>George M. Cohan wasn't Jewish, but being Irish does not automatically
>>prevent one from being Jewish.
>
> OK, this is probably another dumb question asked and answered a hundred
> times, but is this just a coincidence?
>
> Cohen - Jewish
> Cohan - Irish
> Khan - NE Asian
> Kahuna - Pacific Islander
Kiun is Chinese for "prince"
Prince is "koyane" in Japanese; kachinas in Hopi (Indian); h-qin in Mayan.
You ought to get a copy of Mozeson's THE WORD: The Dictionary that Reveals
the Hebrew Source of English. It's available on www.amazon.com
Josh