WSJ: Polish Consul General: There Were No Polish Death Camps
Abe Kohen
There Were No Polish Death Camps
I am writing to express my bitter regret at the most unfortunate use of the
word "Polish" when referring to a Nazi concentration camp in an otherwise
very interesting article ("On Style: Picking the Best of Spring's New Style
Books," Personal Journal, May 6). By employing that linguistic shortcut, you
succeeded in hurting the feelings of the people whose best sons and
daughters were the first to suffer from terrible atrocities perpetrated by
the Nazis in 1939.
An extensive system of extermination, concentration, labor and
prisoner-of-war camps was built and operated by Nazi Germany. Describing a
concentration camp as "Polish," only because it was located on the occupied
territory of Poland, is tantamount to indicating that Poland was a
participant in the Nazi crime. In reality, my country was Hitler's most
brutalized victim with more than six million Polish citizens losing their
lives during the war.
The blood spilled by the Polish military on all fronts of World War II, many
times next to their American comrades in arms, calls for more diligence in
choosing your vocabulary.
Ewa Junczyk-Ziomecka
Consul General of Poland
New York
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My comments: The death camps were staffed by Polish people. When I visited
Cracow and the Osweicim "museum" it was a cold March. As we passed the
houses with their fires burning and smoke coming out of the chimneys, I
wondered what the local Poles thought the smell of burning human bodies was,
the ones they or their neighbors helped incinerate.
mirjam
Look at the way the arrested people , in Poland it was done ina Brutal
way , in Holland they started first with `polite` beurocratic
invitattions. Death Camp were Built in Areas were people were most
willing to participate.
But the above article /letter you bring here Abe , doesn`t surprise
me, with the `new` trend in monumemets that are speaking of Local
Victims in some countries without mentioning they were Jews.
2 Years ago, there was an exhibition in Beer Sheva University,
that showed Jewish And Polish artists together. On the opening day
there was a convention with lectures.
One of the Polish artists in his lecture spoke about ` how hard it was
to grow outside Auschwitz` during WW2, some of the people in the
hall , said aloud that it was much harder inside, the artist turned
and said that he doesn`t understnd `why we had no compassion for his
suffering`......
mirjam
Harry Weiss
> Ewa Junczyk-Ziomecka
> Consul General of Poland
> New York
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing in defense of the polish were that they were a bit less
horrid that the ukrainians. They were still a willing accomplice. When
the Jewish commuities were moved by the Nazis it was the local Polish
popluation that moved expeditiously to remove any traces of the Jews.
At least Aushwitz or Trblinka were near smallish town. What about
Maidankik which was withink 100 yards of one of the larges cities in
POland and they claimed dumb.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Jay J
> Abe Kohen <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There Were No Polish Death Camps
> > I am writing to express my bitter regret at the most unfortunate use of the
> > word "Polish" when referring to a Nazi concentration camp in an otherwise
> > very interesting article ("On Style: Picking the Best of Spring's New Style
> > Books," Personal Journal, May 6). By employing that linguistic shortcut, you
> > succeeded in hurting the feelings of the people whose best sons and
> > daughters were the first to suffer from terrible atrocities perpetrated by
> > the Nazis in 1939.
> > An extensive system of extermination, concentration, labor and
> > prisoner-of-war camps was built and operated by Nazi Germany. Describing a
> > concentration camp as "Polish," only because it was located on the occupied
> > territory of Poland, is tantamount to indicating that Poland was a
> > participant in the Nazi crime. In reality, my country was Hitler's most
> > brutalized victim with more than six million Polish citizens losing their
> > lives during the war.
> > The blood spilled by the Polish military on all fronts of World War II, many
> > times next to their American comrades in arms, calls for more diligence in
> > choosing your vocabulary.
> > Ewa Junczyk-Ziomecka
> > Consul General of Poland
> > New York
> > Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A20
> > My comments: The death camps were staffed by Polish people. When I visited
> > Cracow and the Osweicim "museum" it was a cold March. As we passed the
> > houses with their fires burning and smoke coming out of the chimneys, I
> > wondered what the local Poles thought the smell of burning human bodies was,
> > the ones they or their neighbors helped incinerate.
>
> The only thing in defense of the polish were that they were a bit less
> horrid that the ukrainians. They were still a willing accomplice. When
> the Jewish commuities were moved by the Nazis it was the local Polish
> popluation that moved expeditiously to remove any traces of the Jews.
>
> At least Aushwitz or Trblinka were near smallish town. What about
> Maidankik which was withink 100 yards of one of the larges cities in
> POland and they claimed dumb.
The Poles have a great deal to atone for, including the pogroms AFTER
the war when Jewish survivors came back and tried to reclaim their
property.
Jay
>
> --
> Harry J. Weiss
> hjwe...@panix.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Harry Thunder
appears time and again with the harm to the Poles. Over decades this
unacceptable shortcut in thinking seems to have gained more and more
popularity rather than to have been replaced by knowledge of history.
I want to believe that the reason for using the above term is haste
and professional negligence rather than ill will.
Let me remind that Poland lost its sovereignty as the state in
September 1939 and was the territory in Europe that was occupied the
longest by Nazi Germany. There was no collaborative government in
Poland. Poles in no way participated in the administrative decisions
of the German authorities. The concentration camps were established on
the territory of Poland by the German officials and were supervised by
the German personnel. People going to gas chambers were selected by
the German army officers. The death sentences were executed by the
German officials. These were the German death camps where members of
various nationalities lost their lives, primarily Jews, but also
Poles.
The Polish society, organized in the form of underground state, took a
lot of efforts to save people doomed for extermination. Despite alarms
sent to the allies about genocide the Polish society did not receive
any assistance. In the West nobody believed or did not want to believe
in the information about mass genocide that was first delivered to the
allies by the members of Polish resistance movement.
I would like to remind you that Poland was the first victim of Hitler
and that as a result of war 6 million Polish citizens including 3
million Polish Jews lost their lives and that the size of the Polish
armed efforts makes Poles the fourth largest force of the anti-Nazi
coalition. The participants of this fight and victims of martyrdom and
their descendants perceive the term "Polish concentration camps" as an
insult.
I appeal to you in the name of decency: write as frequently as
possible about the concentration camps and the extermination so that
they never repeat again. But do write truth.
Harry Weiss
Take a look at these pictures and see how close Maydanek was to Lublin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/18899536@N03/4680335235/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/18899536@N03/4680334893/
lee
>
> --
> Harry J. Weiss
> hjwe...@panix.com
Yes but the Poles were under a brutal occupation by the Germans, & imo
treated as badly as the other non German (Jews & Gypsies aside)
residents of the Lebensraum. So what were they supposed to do?. Just
because some Poles behaved appallingly after the war to returning
Jewish survivors does not make them complicit in what the Germans did,
in the Shoah.
Harry Weiss
> On 8 June, 03:18, Harry Weiss <hjwe...@panix.com> wrote:
> > Harry Thunder <piotr...@msn.com> wrote:
My parents (OBM) would always say that when they were in the concentration
camps the Polish were more cruel than the Germans.
lee
>
> > > --
> > > Harry J. Weiss
> > > hjwe...@panix.com
> > Yes but the Poles were under a brutal occupation by the Germans, & imo
> > treated as badly as the other non German (Jews & Gypsies aside)
> > residents of the Lebensraum. So what were they supposed to do?. Just
> > because some Poles behaved appallingly after the war to returning
> > Jewish survivors does not make them complicit in what the Germans did,
> > in the Shoah.
>
> My parents (OBM) would always say that when they were in the concentration
> camps the Polish were more cruel than the Germans.
>
> --
> Harry J. Weiss
Perhaps they did, say that & perhaps the Poles who worked there were
more cruel than the Germans, perhaps that environment attracted
attracted nasty Poles, in the same way as nasty Germans. That still
doesn't make Poland complicit, or them Polish camps, except that the
camps were geographically located in Poland.
Abe Kohen
"lee" <scho...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b06558c0-7dde-4e2a-b6e0-
> Perhaps they did, say that & perhaps the Poles who worked there were
> more cruel than the Germans, perhaps that environment attracted
> attracted nasty Poles, in the same way as nasty Germans. That still
> doesn't make Poland complicit, or them Polish camps, except that the
> camps were geographically located in Poland.
Lee. If you have the time, the money and the inclination, please visit the
Auschwitz "Museum" in Osweicim, Poland. Perhaps then you will understand the
revionsism of the Polish governments since WWII.
There are some wonderful Catholic Poles and there were some wonderful
Catholic Poles during WWII who hid my in-laws and kept them alive.
But the majority of Catholic Poles of that time were rabid anti-semites. My
father-in-law mad the mistake of returning to his hometown AFTER the
holocaust, witnessing first hand the murder of Jews - not by Germans - but
by the Catholic Polish residents of his town.
Norman Davies was denied tenure by Stanford's history department in 1986
because of his revisionist history of Poland and its Jews.
The complicity of the Catholic Poles is a well established fact. Denying
that is like denying the Holocaust.
Best,
Abe
Abe Kohen
"Harry Thunder" <piot...@msn.com> wrote
> I have noticed with pain and grief term "Polish concentration camps"
> appears time and again with the harm to the Poles. Over decades this
> unacceptable shortcut in thinking seems to have gained more and more
> popularity rather than to have been replaced by knowledge of history.
> I want to believe that the reason for using the above term is haste
> and professional negligence rather than ill will.
[the rest of the revisionist claptrap is deleted.]
Harm to the Poles?
Unacceptable shortcut?
Negiligence?
Have you no shame? The Catholic Pope born in Poland apologized to the Jews.
When will you?
Did you or your father not smell the odious stench of burnt human flesh from
the cremotaria in Osweicim? What did you think your grandfather was doing
there?
Harry Weiss
> Best,
> Abe
Here a couple of pictures of the Jewish cemetary in Titkin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/18899536@N03/4096415571
http://www.flickr.com/photos/18899536@N03/4096415871/
This was a town of many Jews. Among the many great Rabbis in this town
was Rabbi Avraham Kalmanwitz ZTl who later founded Mirrer Brookly.
The Nazis took the Jews to the woods and
shot them all. Most of the toombstones are gone. They were not removed
by Nazis but by the local polish anti semites who threw them into the
river to remove any trace of Jewish existance. Now the Polish are trying
to capitalize on teh Jewish history there and renovated the old shul and
turned it into a museaum, but the fact remains, the Polish were as bad as
the Germans.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
lee
Kapos, or the Germans who set up the system in which there were
Kapos?.
I'm not saying that many Poles/Eastern Europeans were & still are
openly & or furtively anti semites, but wasnt in those days, apart
from ourselves.
The Poles, were treated appallingly by the Germans & the Soviets
during the war, & by the Soviets after VE day. Yet many, many Poles
fought bravely with Britain in the Battle of Britain, in the commando
raids, with the Allies at Monte Cassino & in the liberation of Western
Europe. & including their own failed 2nd uprising in Warsaw. Which imo
is a damn sight more than many of the other occupied nations did. Note
there was no separate polish SS Wiking division, unlike many of the
other 'not guilty' countries.
Imo blame for the camps lies squarely with the Germans, Austrians &
the other Ayran wannabe collaborators. Long term historical blame lies
with all of Europeans (by which I include those living over the pond),
& especially the Catholic Church.
lee
> I'm not saying that many Poles/Eastern Europeans were & still are
> from ourselves.
mirjam
here
http://www.jewishgen.org/krsig/YearSix.html
this happed in 1946
in Kieltz
a pogrom of local poles done to the Survivers
mirjam
lee
Mirjam I do know about the Polish pogrom after the war. I'm not
disputing those disgraceful facts. What I'm saying is that the nazi
death camps, were German death camps in occupied Polish territory.
Harry Weiss
But, the Germans picked Pland for most of their camps and Ukraninans for
most of their cruelest duties, because they knew the Polish and Ukranians
were vicious anti semites.
Dennis
> The only thing in defense of the polish were that they were a bit less
> horrid that the ukrainians. They were still a willing accomplice.
> When the Jewish commuities were moved by the Nazis it was the local
> Polish popluation that moved expeditiously to remove any traces of the
> Jews.
the methods they learned from the Nazis to exterminate the Poles in
Volhynia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Poles_in_Volhynia
"While the Ukrainian police's share in the actual killings of Jews
was small (they primarily played a supporting role), the Ukrainian police
learned from the Germans the techniques necessary to kill large numbers of
people: detailed advanced planning and careful site selection; assurances
to the local population prior to the massacres in order for them to let
down their guard; sudden encirclement; and then mass killing. This training
obtained in 1942 explains the UPA's efficiency in the killing of Poles in
1943.[39]"
Dennis
lee
Actually I thought they picked the locations cos everywhere between
Berlin & Moscow was to be cleansed of non Germans, once their
usefulness as forced labour had been exhausted. Imo the Germans just
started with us, due to historic anti-semitism & the fact that most
nazi leaders were pig ignorant peasants & street bullies,( we call
them yocks in Britain, but I dont know if you have that term in the
States) who were led by their prejudices. If theres one thing to
thank G-d for in WW2, its that Albert Speer wasnt running Germany,
rather than Hitlers cronies & sycophants. Sorry I'm rambling again.
I'm truly sorry for your parents suffering btw & dont in any way wish
to diminish the significance of it by this usenet thread.
Dvora
Re: WSJ: Polish Consul General: There Were No Polish Death Camps
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Wed, Jun 9, 2010, 2:52pm
(EDT+4) From: hjw...@panix.com (Harry Weiss)
Shalom From Dvora --
- give without remembering --
and -- take without forgetting -
Harry Thunder
>
> --
> Harry J. Weiss
> hjwe...@panix.com
These homes were built in 50's come on....
Harry Thunder
> "Harry Thunder" <piotr...@msn.com> wrote
Was your grand father Salomon Morel?
mirjam
> Mirjam I do know about the Polish pogrom after the war. I'm not
> disputing those disgraceful facts. What I'm saying is that the nazi
> death camps, were German death camps in occupied Polish territory.
Lee !!
Alas the Germans were great in national pshchology
They did not build those death camps in France Nor Russia nor
Bulgaria , they built them in Poland for a reason ,,,,,,,
mirjam
lee
Mirjam !!
Yes cos they were planning on ayranizing everything east of Berlin, &
they hadn't conquered Russia yet, thankyou G-d or the Red Army.
sheldonlg
I believe the two greatest populations of Jews were in Poland and
Russia. They had not overrun Russia yet. Also, Poland is smaller and
so had a higher concentration of Jews. Transportation was easier that
way. Not to excuse the Poles who helped, but logistically they kill
more of us more easily if the camps were in Poland.
--
Shelly
Abe Kohen
"Harry Thunder" <piot...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:38e434dd-76c2-416a...@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
--------------------------------------------------------
Is there a reason why the moderators are letting this revisionist garbage
through?
Abe
Abe Kohen
"sheldonlg" <shel...@giganews.com> wrote in message
news:-rKdnXi90KnmuI_R...@giganews.com...
As usual you believe wrong.
Abe