Can Someone Please Give Me the Conservative Ruling on Monkfish and Catfish.

Anon

unread,

Feb 20, 2004, 12:28:30 PM2/20/04

to

I'm aware that the Orthodox do not permit Monkfish and Catfish. Has
the Conservative movement issued any responsas on this issue?

Eliyahu Rooff

unread,

Feb 20, 2004, 1:22:59 PM2/20/04

to

"Anon" <jdfo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:59565e92.0402...@posting.google.com...

> I'm aware that the Orthodox do not permit Monkfish and Catfish.
Has
> the Conservative movement issued any responsas on this issue?

I can't see any reason they would have, as their stance is the same
as O in regard to those two fish.

Eliyahu

cindys

unread,

Feb 20, 2004, 5:21:03 PM2/20/04

to

"Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c15imb$1dvn5s$1...@ID-190813.news.uni-berlin.de...

------------
The fish the C allow (which the O do not) is swordfish, which as I
understand has fins and scales in its youth and later loses them.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Henry Goodman

unread,

Feb 21, 2004, 5:54:31 PM2/21/04

to

"cindys" <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:iBvZb.32942$um1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

I would guess it loses the scales but not the fins but I don't know. Losing fins
sounds unlikely.

--
Henry Goodman
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
>

bac...@vms.huji.ac.il

unread,

Feb 21, 2004, 10:55:05 PM2/21/04

to

Ichthyologists classify scales in 4 groups: placoid, ganoid, cycloid, and
ctenoid. Halacha (Rema in YOREH DEAH Siman 83 quoting the Magid Mishna) rules
that only scales that are loosely attached to the skin and thus, easily
separated are *kosher* scales. Thus, scales which are imbedded in the skin
and cannot be separated from the skin without tearing it are *not* KASKESET
*scales* according to the Torah. Only cycloid and ctenoid are KASKESET.
These scales are round and resemble a fingernail. They are flexible,
transparent and overlap each other like roof shingles. They lie in shallow
pockets on the skin and are easily rubbed off. Cycloid scales are smooth
edged whereas ctenoid scales are toothed.

Nonkosher scales are the placoid and ganoid types. Placoid scales consist of
a flattened rectangular plate embedded in the upper layer of the dermis; it's
rough and resembles a tooth and does NOT overlap. These scales can NOT be
removed without severely tearing the skin.

Some fish have bony tubercules or scates rather than scales and these
fish (such as sturgeon) are NOT kosher [in spite of what the Conservative
clergy say]. Nor are swordfish which have scales during their juvenile
stage in the form of bony tubercules or expanded compressed platelike
bodies. These *scales* are rough, having spinous projections at the surface
and do *not* overlap. Thus, they are NOT at all kosher [in spite of what
the Conservative clergy state].

Josh

> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>

Irene Friedman

unread,

Feb 22, 2004, 2:17:30 AM2/22/04

to

In article <59565e92.0402...@posting.google.com>,
jdfo...@hotmail.com (Anon) wrote:

> I'm aware that the Orthodox do not permit Monkfish and Catfish. Has
> the Conservative movement issued any responsas on this issue?

Yes. They are not kosher. I don't think it was ever questioned.

I have a book called "The Jewish Dietary Laws" published by the R.A. and
the United Synagogue Commission on Jewish Education copyright 1959.

In the1982 edition those two are under the non-kosher fishes listed on
page 92.

cindys

unread,

Feb 22, 2004, 2:19:26 AM2/22/04

to

"Henry Goodman" <henry....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:c18nif$rcj$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...

------------
Pshita!
Best regards,
--Cindy S. (feeling more than a little embarassed)