Swimming to Petra
mm
boating across the Dead Sea and visiting Petra, in the middle of the
night, before there was any treaty with Jordan.
The stories were interesting until I found out where Petra is 10 or 20
miles or more from the Dead Sea. So how could the story be possible?
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
chsw
> I'm sure I've heard stories of Israeli boys, young men, swimming or
> boating across the Dead Sea and visiting Petra, in the middle of the
> night, before there was any treaty with Jordan.
>
> The stories were interesting until I found out where Petra is 10 or 20
> miles or more from the Dead Sea. So how could the story be possible?
>
I've never heard such stories about swimming to Petra, especially
as the Jordanians mined (as in boom!) parts of the sea before
their formal peace with Israel in 1978. This was demonstrated by
our tour guide in 1976 as a group of us floated too far out. He
stood on a salt island and threw chunks of salt until he hit one.
Not a large explosion, but the point was made and we all swam
closer to the Israeli side.
However, the Dead Sea has receded by several meters of depth in
the past 30 years. Perhaps Petra was much closer to the shore at
one point in time.
chsw
mm
wrote:
LOL.
So maybe it wasn't Petra. Any other intersting place Israeli boys
used to go at night on the other side of the Jordan?
I looked at maps.google and it turns out Petra is 30 miles south of
the Dead Sea and 10 miles east of the border, with some pretty high
hills in between, so I guess it couldn't have been Petra, although I
had thought for years that it was.
>chsw
lee
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:10:43 +0000 (UTC), chsw <chsw10...@yahoo.com>
Wouldn't that be extremely dangerous in any case?, getting caught
illegally in Jordan, peace deal or no peace deal. Can you actually
swim in that sea ? I remember floating listlessly for a while before
being eaten alive by those flies. I much prefered the Kinneret.
mm
wrote:
>Wouldn't that be extremely dangerous in any case?, getting caught
>illegally in Jordan, peace deal or no peace deal. Can you actually
That was an apsect of the story, that they were teenagers or young men
and the thrill of it was part of it. This was before there was any
peace deal, but otoh, they thought they woudln't get caught, and in
the story, no one had been caught. Not any of the various groups that
had done this over the years.
Even if caught, in many countries, they probably would have been held
a few days and released
>swim in that sea ? I remember floating listlessly for a while before
>being eaten alive by those flies. I much prefered the Kinneret.
It might not have been the Dead Sea. Maybed it was just the Jordan.
I thought the story was true, but I can't recall enough anymore to
even know what the story was, let alone if it was true.
yzk
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:10:08 +0000 (UTC), lee <schotn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 19, 9:36 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:10:43 +0000 (UTC), chsw <chsw10...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >mm wrote:
>
> >Wouldn't that be extremely dangerous in any case?, getting caught
> >illegally in Jordan, peace deal or no peace deal. Can you actually
>
> That was an apsect of the story, that they were teenagers or young men
> and the thrill of it was part of it. This was before there was any
> peace deal, but otoh, they thought they woudln't get caught, and in
> the story, no one had been caught. Not any of the various groups that
> had done this over the years.
>
> Even if caught, in many countries, they probably would have been held
> a few days and released
>
rather a local Bedouin tribe known for its fierceness.
I believe it was the Al -'Azazma, rather than the more peaceable
Haiwat and Huweitat tribes.
Yaakov K., now back home in Yerushalayim
>
> Meir
>
> "The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
(love that sig.! -- yzk)
mirjam
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/11/travel/through-the-gorge-to-petra.html
It began in the 1950's, when young Israelis still fired by the danger
and romance of the independence struggle, but stifled by the tedium of
draining coastal swamps, began seeking excitement in daring Sabbath
hikes into hostile Arab lands. Inevitably, the goal of these
adventures became the impregnable desert city of the Nabateans. Hidden
in a forbidding wilderness of trackless mountains, ringed by enemy
patrols and hostile Bedouins, linked to the Bible by the traditional
tomb of Aaron and the spring that Moses drew to quench the thirst of
his people, Petra was irresistible. THE first to make the trip were a
pair of young soldier-kibbutzniks, Meir Har-Zion and Rahel Svorai, in
1952. Mr. Har-Zion and Miss Svorai became instant heros to their
peers, starting a deadly fad in which at least 10 Israeli youths lost
their lives, plus an unknown number of Jordanian soldiers and Bedouin
nomads whom they shot along the way. Israel bolstered its border guard
and even banned a popular song about the foray to Petra, "Ha-Sela Ha-
Adom" ("The Red Rock"), from the air. Yet as recently as 1990, two
Jerusalem teen-agers still tried to reach Petra by foot. They were
captured by the Jordanians and returned to Israel.
The peace with Jordan signed in 1994 finally made it possible for
Israelis to reach Petra legally and peaceably, and it has become one
of the major attractions of that peace, a symbol to many Israelis of
their nation's transformation from pariah to neighbor. Those who go
still return in awe: "The most amazing thing about the visit to Jordan
was that I was there at all," wrote one of the first visitors in 1994,
Haim Shapiro. "Perhaps this feeling of wonder made every sight better
than I had imagined."
1 2
Next Page >
SERGE SCHMEMANN is head of the Jerusalem bureau ofThe Times.
A version of this article appeared in print on Sunday, February 11,
1996, on section 5 page 13 of the New York edition.More Articles in
Travel >
mm
wrote:
>here is a part of the story as printed in
>http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/11/travel/through-the-gorge-to-petra.html
Thank you Mirjam. Thank you very much. This is exactly what I meant.
Maybe I read it in 1996, the year listed at the bottom.
And thank you, Yaakov. Hope your trip was good and it's good to be
bacdk.
So it is Petra and there was no swimming involved, since Petra is
south of Yam HaMelach.
>It began in the 1950's, when young Israelis still fired by the danger
>and romance of the independence struggle, but stifled by the tedium of
>draining coastal swamps,
I've always thought draining a swamp would be tedious. Especially a
costal swamp.
However Petra is at least 20 miles round-trip, if I measured
correctly. That's a long way for one night, even a winter night.
Maybe not for an Israeli. I think I did 20 miles one day when I was
30, with hills too. (Paul, that was an American Youth Hostel
member-guided trip with about 15 people, in western NJ) We walked 11
or 12 hours, stopping for lunch and some short breaks, and I was
supprised how little distance we covered. But I think the hike to
and from Petra and in Petra is more than 20 miles.
Oops, I was wrong about part of that. They went on Shabbes, not just
one night, and maybe they had parts of two nights and one day. With a
little extra practice, I could have done that when I was the age of
most of them.
> began seeking excitement in daring Sabbath
>hikes into hostile Arab lands. Inevitably, the goal of these
>adventures became the impregnable desert city of the Nabateans. Hidden
As to "impregnable" the guide pointed out that most "fortresses" are
on hills and few are in valleys or below the surrounding land. He may
have said Petra was the only one.
>in a forbidding wilderness of trackless mountains, ringed by enemy
>patrols and hostile Bedouins, linked to the Bible by the traditional
>tomb of Aaron and the spring that Moses drew to quench the thirst of
>his people, Petra was irresistible. THE first to make the trip were a
>pair of young soldier-kibbutzniks, Meir Har-Zion and Rahel Svorai, in
>1952. Mr. Har-Zion and Miss Svorai became instant heros to their
>peers, starting a deadly fad in which at least 10 Israeli youths lost
>their lives,
Oy.
> plus an unknown number of Jordanian soldiers and Bedouin
>nomads whom they shot along the way. Israel bolstered its border guard
>and even banned a popular song about the foray to Petra, "Ha-Sela Ha-
>Adom" ("The Red Rock"), from the air. Yet as recently as 1990, two
>Jerusalem teen-agers still tried to reach Petra by foot. They were
>captured by the Jordanians and returned to Israel.
>
>The peace with Jordan signed in 1994 finally made it possible for
>Israelis to reach Petra legally and peaceably, and it has become one
>of the major attractions of that peace, a symbol to many Israelis of
It may have even been one of the reasons I wanted to go.
>their nation's transformation from pariah to neighbor. Those who go
>still return in awe: "The most amazing thing about the visit to Jordan
>was that I was there at all," wrote one of the first visitors in 1994,
>Haim Shapiro. "Perhaps this feeling of wonder made every sight better
>than I had imagined."
>
>1 2
>Next Page >
Even the parts you didn't quote are also good.
For one thing, the local tour guide arranged for by the cooperating
tour company in Jordan, which cooperated with the tour company in
Jerusalem, said nothing about the tomb of Aaron being nearby. Too
Jewish, perhaps? I probably couldn't have walked there -- and I
haven't read yet that there is anything to see, or even a marker --
and I think the donkey carts and horse rides only go on the main path,
but I wish I'd known. Is it worth complaining to the Jerusalem tour
company?
Especially interesting to me was "but to sustain those Bedouins (and
horses) who have traditionally made their living off the [taking
tourists through the gorge] service [now banned], visitors are
required to buy a 100-yard horseback ride to the mouth of the canyon.
We paid, but chose to forgo the experience."
Because elsewhere I said it was a camel ride! But he's right, it was
a horse ride. I forgot and it was only two years ago!!!!!
So it wasn't just we who were sold that horseback ride. We were
expected to tip the guy who helped with that, but I had spent almost
no money and kept trying to give him what was equal to about 2 cents.
I didnt' know until at the end of the day, I wanted to buy a phone
call from a guy with a shop near the entrance, so we could call our
driver and leave a little early. He knew enough to explain how little
the money I offered was worth. Isn't this scene straight out of some
tourist movie from the 50's or 60's?
He also says most people go in summer. He and I went in the winter.
I too would rather have the threat of a flash flood in the gorge than
scorching temperatures, especially where there is so much walking and
climbing.
>SERGE SCHMEMANN is head of the Jerusalem bureau ofThe Times.
>
>A version of this article appeared in print on Sunday, February 11,
>1996, on section 5 page 13 of the New York edition.More Articles in
>Travel >
--
mirjam
> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:14:49 +0000 (UTC), mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il>
> wrote:
>
> >here is a part of the story as printed in
> >http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/11/travel/through-the-gorge-to-petra.html
>
> Thank you Mirjam. Thank you very much. This is exactly what I meant.
> Maybe I read it in 1996, the year listed at the bottom.
HaSela HaAdom - and i looked for this term when looking for some
materials for you .
now if you go to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43h6tJlgUY
you can hear the Late Arik Lavie , singing the song about the RED ROCK
[=Petra] , at the time after several youth lost their life , it was
banned from being heard on the Radio ..
enjoy ,,,,
mirjam