Mechon Mamre.org
Patty
Thanks Cheers
Yisroel Markov
<paj...@earthlink.net> said:
>Opinions?
A very useful site. (If you want me to be more specific, please be
more specific with the question.)
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Leon
"Patty" <paj...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Opinions?
Who doesn't have opinions? Everybody, even the meek who are waiting to
inherit the Earth have opinions. So the answer, Patty, is "Yes".
That's not the same answer I fill in when a form asks, "Sex?". In that case
I usually fill in, "Yes" or "OK", sometimes adding "Your place or mine?"
Thanks for asking.
Leon
Patty
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:42:37 +0000 (UTC), Patty
> <pajh...@earthlink.net> said:
>
> >Opinions?
>
> A very useful site. (If you want me to be more specific, please be
> more specific with the question.)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
What's useful about it? I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
Thanks Cheers
Leon
"Patty" <paj...@earthlink.net> wrote
>What's useful about it? I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
>Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
Without even going to the website, I think I can answer this one.
Usually, when people interpolate on some pages of Talmud, they consult a
competent source. Depending on who your rabbi is, the answer can be "yes",
"no" or "maybe" to any question. This makes it difficult for someone like me
who prefers answers like "me, you're asking?" or "so what do you think the
answer is?" or even "such a question you shouldn't even have had to ask if
you had attended the lecture by the Podembitzer rebbe when he was teaching
diving at the Y".
I have found interpolations in the men's room of our local kosher
supermarket, but I doubted the authenticity of such writing. The local Glatt
Spot Soft Ice Cream and Wig Shop has, on Thursday mornings, a class in
interpolations. If you wish, I will attend that class and ask.
Leon
Tim Meushaw
> On Jul 23, 4:50 pm, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:42:37 +0000 (UTC), Patty
>> <pajh...@earthlink.net> said:
>>
>> >Opinions?
>>
>> A very useful site. (If you want me to be more specific, please be
>> more specific with the question.)
>
Lots of complete texts in both Hebrew and English is what makes it
useful for me.
Tim
--
Timothy A. Meushaw
meu...@pobox.com
yaco...@aol.com
> On Jul 23, 4:50 pm, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:42:37 +0000 (UTC), Patty
> > <pajh...@earthlink.net> said:
>
> > >Opinions?
>
> > A very useful site. (If you want me to be more specific, please be
> > more specific with the question.)
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
>
> What's useful about it?
Uh, e-copies of all of Rabbinic literature available to browse and
copy?
How is that conceivably not useful?
> I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
> Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
What do you mean?
Details help, you know. Abstract conclusory remarks are rather vague.
Sounds like variae lectionae. Another useful tool.
> Thanks Cheers
Jacko
Micha Berger
> What's useful about it? I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
> Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
They have critically accurate texts. When in doubt, they side with
Yemenite tradition, in particular the Darda'im (Dor Dei'ah), the followers
of R' Yichyeh el-Gafeh, his son and then grandson. The third el-Gafeh
may be known to you under the mistransliteration "Qapach". (But his quf
is more like a g, and his ches, more like an h, and the vowels are wrong.)
But they also have academic corrections.
If you look at their Rambam, the laws are divided as per the Darda'im,
with letters in brackets denoting the more common division.
And I google using site:www.mechone-mamre.org in my query all the time.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger In the days of our sages, man didn't sin unless
mi...@aishdas.org he was overcome with a spirit of foolishness.
http://www.aishdas.org Today, we don't do a mitzvah unless we receive
Fax: (270) 514-1507 a spirit of purity. - Rabbi Israel Salanter
Leon
"Tim Meushaw" <meu...@pobox.com> wrote
Lots of complete texts in both Hebrew and English is what makes it
useful for me.
Again, I must beg to differ. Were the texts in Essenic Aramaic, I might find
them useful. Just think of the thrill you would get in being able to ask for
a goatskin of water or a bit of unleavened Krispy Kreme in authentic
Aramaic.
Leon
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
> "Patty" <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
> > Opinions?
>
> Who doesn't have opinions? Everybody, even the meek who are waiting to
> inherit the Earth have opinions. So the answer, Patty, is "Yes".
>
Careful. I know we have quite an educated group here, but careful
about dropping expressions which are from the new testament, into a
jewish discussion group, without saying so. It is bad if people pick
up such an expression not knowing where it comes from. It's a silly
expression too.
> That's not the same answer I fill in when a form asks, "Sex?". In that case
> I usually fill in, "Yes" or "OK", sometimes adding "Your place or mine?"
>
> Thanks for asking.
>
> Leon
This is a jewish discussion group, and has women reading too.. Some
of them religious, some married, some innocent and single.
Eli Grubman
>On Jul 23, 11:11 pm, "Leon" <wordswordsNOS...@att.net> wrote:
>> "Patty" <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>
>> > Opinions?
>>
>> Who doesn't have opinions? Everybody, even the meek who are waiting to
>> inherit the Earth have opinions. So the answer, Patty, is "Yes".
>>
>
>Careful. I know we have quite an educated group here, but careful
>about dropping expressions which are from the new testament, into a
>jewish discussion group, without saying so. It is bad if people pick
>up such an expression not knowing where it comes from. It's a silly
>expression too.
I always thought it said the meek would inhibit the Earth...
>> That's not the same answer I fill in when a form asks, "Sex?". In that case
>> I usually fill in, "Yes" or "OK", sometimes adding "Your place or mine?"
>>
>> Thanks for asking.
>>
>> Leon
>
>This is a jewish discussion group, and has women reading too.. Some
>of them religious, some married, some innocent and single.
Should that make any difference in this Age of Equality (TM)?
Eli
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Umm who would you ask?
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Patty
> On Jul 23, 7:06 pm, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 23, 4:50 pm, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:42:37 +0000 (UTC), Patty
> > > <pajh...@earthlink.net> said:
>
> > > >Opinions?
>
> > > A very useful site. (If you want me to be more specific, please be
> > > more specific with the question.)
>
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
>
> > What's useful about it?
>
> Uh, e-copies of all of Rabbinic literature available to browse and
> copy?
>
> How is that conceivably not useful?
>
> > I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
> > Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
>
> What do you mean?
>
> Details help, you know. Abstract conclusory remarks are rather vague.
>
> Sounds like variae lectionae. Another useful tool.
>
> > Thanks Cheers
>
> Jacko
Avodah Zara 16b-17a and Gittin 57a contain interpolations of "yeshu"
which people are relying on. Unknown to these people, the
interpolations do not appear in standard editions like the Judaic
Classics sold by Davka and pointed to from the Artscroll site, and the
copy on edaf.com. They are also not referenced in the notes from Daf
Yomi Advancement Forum or discussed in Rav. Grossman's audio lectures.
Thanks Cheers
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> Patty <paj...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> What's useful about it? I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
>> Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
>
> They have critically accurate texts. When in doubt, they side with
> Yemenite tradition, in particular the Darda'im (Dor Dei'ah), the followers
> of R' Yichyeh el-Gafeh, his son and then grandson. The third el-Gafeh
> may be known to you under the mistransliteration "Qapach". (But his quf
> is more like a g, and his ches, more like an h, and the vowels are wrong.)
You ought to tell that to his family because his wife (who was under
our medical care) called herself Rabbanit KAPACH. And that's how it's
spelled in the telephone directory and what was on the nameplate
on the front door to their apartment which was then on Rechov Kovshei
Katamon (ground floor).
But, of course, armchair quarterbacks living in the USA know better
how the name was spelled and pronounced. Naturally :-)
Josh
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:03:51 +0000 (UTC), "jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk"
All the moreso in this age of "equality".
It is a principle, it doesn't change, and with efforts in the outside
world to uproot it, then it must be and can only be adhered to,
without laxity, as a strong principle. .
Every principle is a strong principle, and we don't neglect a
principle if it is under attack in the outside world. It doesn't have
to be under attack in your world, so one needn't cling to it with a
nervous fanaticism. But you can emphasise it, so that at least they
know, that you don't buy their new age philosophies, and at least they
know, that the philosophies that they take for granted, can be put on
the table and questioned, and that there are people that don't buy it,
there are pockets of resistance, and when they see that, this "new
age" society tone down their efforts, because they want to be loved,
and/or they are cowards on the inside - not standing up for their
principles, for they have none.
yzk
Liba dalek wa tiza damek (My heart is aflame, but my butt is asleep) :-))
Yaakov K. in Y-m
yaco...@aol.com
They were in the original text of the Talmud, removed due to medieval
censorship.
They appear in the manuscripts, of course, such as the Tractate Aboda
Zara published by Professor Marx, which comprises the JTS manuscript,
copied from an Ur-text from the ninth centry in Andalusian Spain
(there is a section of AZ which has a date in it, allowing the dating
of the original source manuscript).
> Thanks Cheers
Jacko
yaco...@aol.com
> You ought to tell that to his family because his wife (who was under
> our medical care) called herself Rabbanit KAPACH. And that's how it's
> spelled in the telephone directory and what was on the nameplate
> on the front door to their apartment which was then on Rechov Kovshei
> Katamon (ground floor).
>
> But, of course, armchair quarterbacks living in the USA know better
> how the name was spelled and pronounced. Naturally :-)
>
> Josh
Last time my friend met with Arye Qafih, the name was still Kafih.
That was last week.
Why do you have such difficulty understanding the Arabic-Jewish
mentality? We use one pronunciation within our group, another for
those for who the acurate pronunciation would be impossible.
Happens all the time.
Qafih ("Gafeh") is an Arabic word. Arabic has no "P" sound. In
addition, the final letter is a het. "Kapach" is impossible.
Can you understand this?
The horse you are beating is so dead he will be voting for Obama in
Chicago.
Jacko
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> On Jul 24, 11:39=A0am, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> You ought to tell that to his family because his wife (who was under
>> spelled in the telephone directory and what was on the nameplate
>> on the front door to their apartment which was then on Rechov Kovshei
>> Katamon (ground floor).
>>
>> But, of course, armchair quarterbacks living in the USA know better
>> how the name was spelled and pronounced. Naturally :-)
>>
>> Josh
>
> Last time my friend met with Arye Qafih, the name was still Kafih.
> That was last week.
>
> Why do you have such difficulty understanding the Arabic-Jewish
> mentality? We use one pronunciation within our group, another for
> those for who the acurate pronunciation would be impossible.
Like in the telephone directory and the nameplate on their front
door ? Just to trick those dumb Ashkenazim ? :-) And Rabbanit KAPACH
pronounces her name KAPACH just to fool the "Shkantoze" ?
Interesting.
It's amazing what you learn on the Internet :-)
Josh
Micha Berger
> You ought to tell that to his family because his wife (who was under
> our medical care) called herself Rabbanit KAPACH. And that's how it's
> spelled in the telephone directory and what was on the nameplate
> on the front door to their apartment which was then on Rechov Kovshei
> Katamon (ground floor).
I'll let RSM know.
Seriously, though, R' Yichyeh el-Qafeh (spelled Quf-fei-hei) is
well documented in a Google. I admit transliterating the quf with
a "G" is emphasizing the difference in pronounciation of quf more
than necessary, but it's done. (Eg chayas.org, by followers of R'
Yosef el-Qafeh or one of the alternatives on "Yosef Qafih" in
wikipedia.) Or search http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yemenite_group
for "Qafih".)
So, the Rabbanit at some time decided not to press the point.
The spelling wouldn't say a thing, unless your phone directory has
niqud.
yaco...@aol.com
> In article <4b3e7ee4-db6f-447e-a9d4-
> > Last time my friend met with Arye Qafih, the name was still Kafih
> > That was last week.
> > Why do you have such difficulty understanding the Arabic-Jewish
> > mentality? We use one pronunciation within our group, another for
> > those for who the acurate pronunciation would be impossible.
>
> Like in the telephone directory and the nameplate on their front
> door ? Just to trick those dumb Ashkenazim ? :-) And Rabbanit KAPACH
> pronounces her name KAPACH just to fool the "Shkantoze" ?
>
> Interesting.
Jeezuz Kee-riist man. Can you try to read back testimony wihtout
spinning it? I said nothing about fooling anyone.
The strategy is to allow others not to have to stumble over our names,
force us to spell everything over and over.
Nameplate on front door has vowels???????
Are you F-ing for real?
Just admit the truth. You did not know, you assumed based on external
inidica of the name, including teh way everyone pronounces it in your
experience.
If you want to LEARN, you may. If winnign atal costs is the goal.
Fine. You win!
Call them Kapach. Ego te disolvo.
Jacko
Leon
<bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote i>
> But, of course, armchair quarterbacks living in the USA know better
> how the name was spelled and pronounced. Naturally :-)
>
I have found American expertise on the Middle East to be inversely
proportional to the time spent there. Factor in the inability to read and
speak Hebrew or Arabic, and the limitation of travel to areas frequented by
tourists, and you will have a coefficient of expertise very close to zero.
Traveling as a member of the UJA Speakers' Bureau originally and then more
than a dozen times as a journalist and researcher, I learned that in the
Middle East, man, nobody is an expert on anything. When the wind is
southerly, I understand the Israeli Arabs' complaints but when the wind is
from the northeast I can see why Israel can't give up the Golan. A westerly
hamsin brings punishment for past sins and a southwestern breeze carries
with it irrational hatred for imagined transgressions. And, surprisingly,
everyone is right and everyone else is wrong. But the politician or TV
anchor on a sixteen hour visit manages to delve deeply into the hidden roots
of every issue and expounds confidently, "If only those stupid
(Israelis/Jews/Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians) would listen to me."
I repeat the old story of the scorpion and the frog on the shore of the
Jordan River. "Take me across," the scorpion asks and the frog replies, "No.
You will sting me and we'll both drown." The scorpion is amazed. "Why would
I want to commit suicide? I know if I sting you I will drown." So the frog
takes the scorpion on his back and starts to cross the river. "Take me
further downstream," orders the scorpion but the frog continues directly
across. "I said take me downstream," the scorpion says and the frog replies,
"I am doing the swimming so you will have to go where I take us," whereupon
the scorpion, in a rage, stings the frog. As the venom takes effect the frog
gasps, "You stupid insect. Why did you do that? You have killed us both."
And the scorpion replies, "HEY, MAN, IT'S THE MIDDLE EAST."
Leon ("And I am right and you are right and he is right and she is right".
What's that you say? We all can't be right? You, too, are right.")
Leon
<yaco...@aol.com> wrote
Qafih ("Gafeh") is an Arabic word. Arabic has no "P" sound. In
addition, the final letter is a het. "Kapach" is impossible.
If you will permit a little naarishkeit in such a serious but trivial
discussion, the pee is silent, like in Swimming.
Leon
Leon
<yaco...@aol.com> wrote
>Are you F-ing for real?
Again I am faced with a dilemma. Is my distinguished colleague asking our
honorable member Josh if he is performing the sexual act seriously and in
fact. or is he using the Anglo-Saxon derived word as an adjective?
Josh Backon is, according to many of my other colleagues, both real and
serious in his pursuit of truth and beauty here on the Interned and
elsewhere. He comes highly recommended by a mutual acquaintance who vouches
for both his sanity and reality.
I thank you for this opportunity to vouch for such an erudite member of the
chevra.
Leon
Leon
>
> >This is a jewish discussion group, and has women reading too.. Some
> >of them religious, some married, some innocent and single.
and it got by me.
Are any of the men reading this group religious, married, or innocent and
single? What bearing does that have on what has been posted in this thread?
Or are we concentrating on women, alone?
If someone is religious and married, that person is, by definition, no
longer single. Are we to assume that person is no longer innocent? What do
we mean by innocent? With rare exceptions, my observant family and friends
who are married have children. Have they "lost" their innocence? With rare
exception, the single women and girls I know are all aware of the
differences between the sexes. Especially those raised in a family with
little brothers. Are they among the innocent?
The single women and girls I know have all been to weddings, circumcisions
and funerals -- all the lifecycle rituals of Judaism. And I will bet that,
with rare exception, single "innocent" Jewish women know something about
human reproduction and birth. So what was the point of the statement?
I believe the expression the French use is "Honi soit qui mal y pense."
Leon
Arthur Kamlet
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk <jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jul 23, 11:11 pm, "Leon" <wordswordsNOS...@att.net> wrote:
>> "Patty" <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>
>> > Opinions?
>>
>> Who doesn't have opinions? Everybody, even the meek who are waiting to
>> inherit the Earth have opinions. So the answer, Patty, is "Yes".
>>
>
>Careful. I know we have quite an educated group here, but careful
>about dropping expressions which are from the new testament, into a
>jewish discussion group, without saying so. It is bad if people pick
>up such an expression not knowing where it comes from. It's a silly
>expression too.
If you are referring to The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth, for the
purposes of this newsgoup, that comes directly out of the Hebrew
Bible.
Ch 37 - you find the book.
Many quotes in the Hebrew Bible were taken out and "re-used,"
to be nice, by the authors of Christian scriptures.
=== === ===
Years ago I posted annually a "quiz" of Bible quotes, asking
which were from the Hebrew Bible. I might restart that again.
Meanwhile here are a few Biblical quotes. Which of these comes
from the Hebrew Bible?
1. "and behold, joy and gladness, killing cattle and killing
sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine: "Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we will die."
2. Man does not live by bread alone
3. Love your neighbor as yourself
4. I am the first and the last [said God]
5. Thou, O king, king of kings, unto whom the God of heaven has
given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory;
6. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
7. Behold, I will send you [xxx] the prophet,
before the coming of the great and terrible day
of the Lord
8. And you, go to the end, and you will rest and rise
to your lot at the end of the days
--
ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH
Arthur Kamlet
Leon <wordswor...@att.net> wrote:
>I repeat the old story of the scorpion and the frog on the shore of the
>Jordan River. "Take me across," the scorpion asks and the frog replies, "No.
>You will sting me and we'll both drown." The scorpion is amazed. "Why would
>I want to commit suicide? I know if I sting you I will drown." So the frog
>takes the scorpion on his back and starts to cross the river. "Take me
>further downstream," orders the scorpion but the frog continues directly
>across. "I said take me downstream," the scorpion says and the frog replies,
>"I am doing the swimming so you will have to go where I take us," whereupon
>the scorpion, in a rage, stings the frog. As the venom takes effect the frog
>gasps, "You stupid insect. Why did you do that? You have killed us both."
>
>And the scorpion replies, "HEY, MAN, IT'S THE MIDDLE EAST."
As I heard it, and it makes perfect sense as well, the scorpion says,
Because I'm a Scorpion. That's what we do.
>Leon ("And I am right and you are right and he is right and she is right".
>What's that you say? We all can't be right? You, too, are right.")
Almost got W.S. Gilbert right:
And I am right. And you are right. And everything is quite correct.
http://lyricwiki.org/Gilbert_And_Sullivan:Our_great_Mikado,_virtuous_man
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
> Somewhere in this thread, the following was posted
>
>
>
> > >This is a jewish discussion group, and has women reading too.. Some
> > >of them religious, some married, some innocent and single.
>
> and it got by me.
>
> Are any of the men reading this group religious, married, or innocent and
> single? What bearing does that have on what has been posted in this thread?
> Or are we concentrating on women, alone?
you posted about your eagerness to have sex.
you said
"
That's not the same answer I fill in when a form asks, "Sex?". In that
case
I usually fill in, "Yes" or "OK", sometimes adding "Your place or
mine?"
"
think about it.
Would you say that to a religious female at a shabbos table (if
you're in public and she's not your wife) ?
Suppose you encountered said female at a simcha, would you come out
with that in public at the table , and if she's not even your wife
either ?
yaco...@aol.com
> <yacova...@aol.com> wrote
>
> >Are you F-ing for real?
>
> Again I am faced with a dilemma. Is my distinguished colleague asking our
> honorable member Josh if he is performing the sexual act seriously and in
> fact. or is he using the Anglo-Saxon derived word as an adjective?
>
> Leon
Exploiting a figurative use of a term is funny once or twice. Gets a
smile the third and maybe fourth time. After ten such quips, the
audience generally changes the channel.
Chinese auction. Shoehorn. Mielenoma.
Jacko
yaco...@aol.com
> Somewhere in this thread, the following was posted
>
>
> Leon
Unless they are speaking to their American girlfriend, or describing a
well known shock absorber, it is actually "On n'y soit . . . "
And it is the motto of the Royal Order of the Garter, a group often
fit to be tied.
Jacko
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
> On Jul 23, 10:47 pm, yacova...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 7:06 pm, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 23, 4:50 pm, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:42:37 +0000 (UTC), Patty
> > > > <pajh...@earthlink.net> said:
>
> > > > >Opinions?
>
> > > > A very useful site. (If you want me to be more specific, please be
> > > > more specific with the question.)
>
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
>
> > > What's useful about it?
>
> > Uh, e-copies of all of Rabbinic literature available to browse and
> > copy?
>
> > How is that conceivably not useful?
>
> > > I noticed the interpolations on some pages of
> > > Talmud on their site. Where do they get them?
>
> > What do you mean?
>
> > Details help, you know. Abstract conclusory remarks are rather vague.
>
> > Sounds like variae lectionae. Another useful tool.
>
> > > Thanks Cheers
>
> > Jacko
>
> Avodah Zara 16b-17a and Gittin 57a contain interpolations of "yeshu"
> which people are relying on. Unknown to these people, the
> interpolations do not appear in standard editions like the Judaic
> Classics sold by Davka and pointed to from the Artscroll site, and the
> copy on edaf.com. They are also not referenced in the notes from Daf
> Yomi Advancement Forum or discussed in Rav. Grossman's audio lectures.
>
davka "judaic classics library" uses the soncino translation, I
don't know about the gemara text, if that is hebrew or aramaic.
the anti-semitic comeandhear site have scanned in pages of much of the
soncino translation. Same as on davka
in gittin 57a
davka's / soncino says balaam, then a footnote says MS jesus.
I heard somewhere that MS stands for manuscript.
Any censoring was done by christian censors..
I have not heard of them replacing yeshu with balaam.
I figured they had censored it completely..
and I figured that the soncino wasn't censored..
Are you suggesting that it was christians who put in balaam as a
codeword for yeshu? That is a strange theory I have never heard..
Infact, rabbi gil student argues that balaam cannot be jesus, and
mentions an academic article analysing it. Nowhere did he say that
balaam really was a codeword, (for yeshu) but put in by christian
censors.
Balaam aside. Regarding whether yeshu is or is not jesus. The gemara
has him living before.. (and there are other differences, i think it
says he was stoned by a/the jewish court). So, I have heard it
suggested that there is no evidence that jesus existed but it's
possible he was an amalgamation of characters, one of which being
yeshu mentioned in the gemara. I guess others would say yeshu is
jesus but rabbis changed some details to hide it. There isn't evidence
for that theory though.
Regarding responses. I did see a nice discussion, mentioning Hesronot
HaShas - a book with the censored parts in it. On this web site for
jew haters!, by rabbi david eidensohn
http://www.jewhaters.com/
the main good site is rabbi gil student's, and it has links to other
sites too.
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> On Jul 24, 1:26=A0pm, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> In article <4b3e7ee4-db6f-447e-a9d4-
>
>> > Last time my friend met with Arye Qafih, the name was still Kafih
>> > That was last week.
>
>> > Why do you have such difficulty understanding the Arabic-Jewish
>> > those for who the acurate pronunciation would be impossible.
>>
>> Like in the telephone directory and the nameplate on their front
>> door ? Just to trick those dumb Ashkenazim ? :-) And Rabbanit KAPACH
>> pronounces her name KAPACH just to fool the "Shkantoze" ?
>>
>> Interesting.
>
> Jeezuz Kee-riist man. Can you try to read back testimony wihtout
> spinning it? I said nothing about fooling anyone.
>
> The strategy is to allow others not to have to stumble over our names,
> force us to spell everything over and over.
What's so difficult to pronounce the name as KAFIH ? There isn't any.
That's why the KAPACH family PRONOUNCED it as KAPACH. The name in the
telephone directory was spelled KUF ALEF PEH CHET [see page 354, left
column in the Jerusalem 2007-2008 telephone directory which lists 16
people whose last name is KAPACH]. And the metal name plate on the
front door of Rav KAPACH was spelled KUF ALEF PEH CHET.
And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
pronounced his name as KAPACH.
Not KAFI, not KAFU, not KAFA, not KIFA. Kapiche ?
>
> Nameplate on front door has vowels???????
>
Sigh ....
> Are you F-ing for real?
>
> Just admit the truth. You did not know, you assumed based on external
> inidica of the name, including teh way everyone pronounces it in your
> experience.
That's why at least 2 Teimanim whom I know also referred to his as
KAPACH ? Just to fool the dumb Ashkenazi ? :-)
>
> If you want to LEARN, you may. If winnign atal costs is the goal.
> Fine. You win!
>
> Call them Kapach. Ego te disolvo.
KISH MER IN.
Josh
>
> Jacko
yaco...@aol.com
> What's so difficult to pronounce the name as KAFIH ? There isn't any.
> That's why the KAPACH family PRONOUNCED it as KAPACH.
Not the Rabbis sons, daughter and granchhildren.
You do NOT personally KNOW these people. Why must you keep being
right when you are missing data? It is absurd.
> The name in the
> telephone directory was spelled KUF ALEF PEH CHET [see page 354, left
> column in the Jerusalem 2007-2008 telephone directory which lists 16
> people whose last name is KAPACH]. And the metal name plate on the
> front door of Rav KAPACH was spelled KUF ALEF PEH CHET.
And a PEH can just as easily represent a "FEH". So who are you
fooling with this?
Yesh em lammiqra!
> And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
> pronounced his name as KAPACH.
Great. The name is still Qafih.
> Not KAFI, not KAFU, not KAFA, not KIFA. Kapiche ?
Stopt the third grade ridicule. OKAY?
> > Nameplate on front door has vowels???????
>
> Sigh ....
WELL DOES IT?
> > Are you F-ing for real?
>
> > Just admit the truth. You did not know, you assumed based on external
> > inidica of the name, including teh way everyone pronounces it in your
> > experience.
>
> That's why at least 2 Teimanim whom I know also referred to his as
> KAPACH ? Just to fool the dumb Ashkenazi ? :-)
Again with the fooling.
So you know two temanim. That proves it. I concede.
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
In article <SF5ik.133349$102.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Leon" <wordswor...@att.net> writes:
>
> <yaco...@aol.com> wrote
>
>>Are you F-ing for real?
>
> Again I am faced with a dilemma. Is my distinguished colleague asking our
> honorable member Josh if he is performing the sexual act seriously and in
> fact. or is he using the Anglo-Saxon derived word as an adjective?
>
> Josh Backon is, according to many of my other colleagues, both real and
> serious in his pursuit of truth and beauty here on the Interned and
> elsewhere. He comes highly recommended by a mutual acquaintance who vouches
> for both his sanity and reality.
It's time for:
SUPER IRVING
Daavens faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a dozen
shul presidents, able to leap tall mechitzas in a single bound.
"Look, Up in the sky ! It's a bird ! It's a plane ! No, it's
SuperIRVING !" Yes, it's SuperIRVING, strange visitor from Boro
Park who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those
of mortal men. SuperIRVING, who can change the course of mighty
shul committees, bend a lulav with his bare hands, and who, disguised
as Irving Bernstein, mild-mannered rebbe for a great metropolitan
shteeble, fights a never ending battle for sheker, geneiva and the
INGARISHER way !"
Josh (getting out of his red *gatkes*)
J J Levin
<bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:g6b1e6$4nl$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
Give me a break!! Change the course of shul committees? In your dreams.
:-)
Jay
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> On Jul 24, 6:42=A0pm, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> What's so difficult to pronounce the name as KAFIH ? There isn't any.
>> That's why the KAPACH family PRONOUNCED it as KAPACH.
>
> Not the Rabbis sons, daughter and granchhildren.
>
> You do NOT personally KNOW these people. Why must you keep being
> right when you are missing data? It is absurd.
Huh ? I knew the KAPACH family. I was in their home (Rechov
Kovshei Katamon, ground floor). Members of the family were
treated at the clinic. Read my lips: they all pronounced their
name as KAPACH. Kapiche ?
>
>> The name in the
>> telephone directory was spelled KUF ALEF PEH CHET [see page 354, left
>> column in the Jerusalem 2007-2008 telephone directory which lists 16
>> people whose last name is KAPACH]. And the metal name plate on the
>> front door of Rav KAPACH was spelled KUF ALEF PEH CHET.
>
> And a PEH can just as easily represent a "FEH". So who are you
> fooling with this?
>
> Yesh em lammiqra!
>
>> And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
>> pronounced his name as KAPACH.
>
> Great. The name is still Qafih.
>
>> Not KAFI, not KAFU, not KAFA, not KIFA. Kapiche ?
>
> Stopt the third grade ridicule. OKAY?
>
Maybe you're being somewhat ridiculous ??
>
>> > Nameplate on front door has vowels???????
>>
>> Sigh ....
>
> WELL DOES IT?
>
>
>> > Are you F-ing for real?
>>
>> > Just admit the truth. =A0You did not know, you assumed based on externa=
> l
>> > inidica of the name, including teh way everyone pronounces it in your
>> > experience.
>>
>> That's why at least 2 Teimanim whom I know also referred to his as
>> KAPACH ? Just to fool the dumb Ashkenazi ? :-)
>
> Again with the fooling.
>
> So you know two temanim. That proves it. I concede.
Josh
Leon
"J J Levin" <jjl...@optonline.net> wrote >
>
> Give me a break!! Change the course of shul committees? In your dreams.
>
Q: What is a camel?
A: A horse designed by a shul committee.
Leon
Leon
<jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>Suppose you encountered said female at a simcha, would you come out
>with that in public at the table , and if she's not even your wife
>either ?
Review what you have posted. At a shabbos table or at a simcha, if a woman
asked me, "Sex?", I would assume that to be an invitation for some dallying.
Why would I assume she is asking my gender? I have a beard, speak with a
masculine voice and I wear men's clothing.
Since I have never "strayed", why would I start now? My replies on printed
forms are my way of ridiculing the misuse of "Sex" when the questioner wants
to know my gender. Or, maybe, you are not aware of the fact that there is a
difference.
Oh, one more thing. My wife has never asked me, "Sex?" in public, nor, in
fact, in private. We are more subtle than that.
Leon
Leon
Leon
"Arthur Kamlet" <kam...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:g6arln$ker$1...@reader1.panix.com...
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
> In article <dbc3d7e0-43fc-4dc1-b364-ca71fc51c...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, yacova...@aol.com writes:
>
> > On Jul 24, 6:42=A0pm, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
> >> What's so difficult to pronounce the name as KAFIH ? There isn't any.
> >> That's why the KAPACH family PRONOUNCED it as KAPACH.
>
> > Not the Rabbis sons, daughter and granchhildren.
>
> > You do NOT personally KNOW these people. Why must you keep being
> > right when you are missing data? It is absurd.
>
> Huh ? I knew the KAPACH family. I was in their home (Rechov
> Kovshei Katamon, ground floor). Members of the family were
> treated at the clinic. Read my lips: they all pronounced their
> name as KAPACH. Kapiche ?
>
>
On Jul 25, 12:05 am, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
> In article <dbc3d7e0-43fc-4dc1-b364-ca71fc51c...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, yacova...@aol.com writes:
>
> > On Jul 24, 6:42=A0pm, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
> >> What's so difficult to pronounce the name as KAFIH ? There isn't any.
> >> That's why the KAPACH family PRONOUNCED it as KAPACH.
>
> > Not the Rabbis sons, daughter and granchhildren.
>
> > You do NOT personally KNOW these people. Why must you keep being
> > right when you are missing data? It is absurd.
>
> Huh ? I knew the KAPACH family. I was in their home (Rechov
> Kovshei Katamon, ground floor). Members of the family were
> treated at the clinic. Read my lips: they all pronounced their
> name as KAPACH. Kapiche ?
>
I knew a guy called on-core, except, he spelt it Anker.
We all knew how to pronounce his name, but we pronounced it Anker
anyway. Or more correctly, Anker followed by laughter.
He was always absolutely convinced that nobody could pronounce his
name and he was more than happy to have people pronounce it Anker.
Foreign people really believe that the english are hopeless at
pronouncing their names (little do they know that those of us that
could pronounce it, mispronounce it on purpose).
But it's easier for them to give themselves an english sounding name
and save themselves the hassle. Even in an extreme case where it
sounds like a common insult. Anker rhymes with a very very rude
english insult.
You hear on the news.. O Sar Ma, or MuZlims. It's intentional.
Even british muslims, who demand that MuZZlim is pronounced Musslim,
even they get used to having their names mispronounced. Wahid becomes
Waheed. I would pronounce Choudhury as Shrowdberry. One guy was
called A-rif. I would pronounce it, A Whif. I think they kind of
like it, they think you're the butt of the joke..
Eli Grubman
<wordswor...@att.net> wrote:
>
><jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>
>>Suppose you encountered said female at a simcha, would you come out
>>with that in public at the table , and if she's not even your wife
>>either ?
>
>Review what you have posted. At a shabbos table or at a simcha, if a woman
>asked me, "Sex?", I would assume that to be an invitation for some dallying.
>Why would I assume she is asking my gender? I have a beard, speak with a
>masculine voice and I wear men's clothing.
>
>Since I have never "strayed", why would I start now? My replies on printed
>forms are my way of ridiculing the misuse of "Sex" when the questioner wants
>to know my gender. Or, maybe, you are not aware of the fact that there is a
>difference.
Actually, "sex" is the correct word for distinguishing between male
and female members of the human race. "Gender" is reserved for
grammar.
Eli
yaco...@aol.com
> Huh ? I knew the KAPACH family. I was in their home (Rechov
> Kovshei Katamon, ground floor). Members of the family were
> treated at the clinic. Read my lips: they all pronounced their
> name as KAPACH. Kapiche ?
To you, perhaps, a foreigner. "Members of the family" is not real
precise. I have no idea what that means, and you, of course, know
that.
> Maybe you're being somewhat ridiculous ??
Bemumkha atta posel, habibi.
You are arguing pronunciation from anecdote and ***spelling** where
the same consonants would be used for both pronunciations. Actually
they would not, as, in fact, there is no basis to put an aleph after a
qof unless you are spelling Arabic in Hebrew chaacters.
I hear what I hear, I know what the name means, I know what language
it is, and I never heard anyone except Ashkenazis say "Kapach."
You argued from two SOLELY WRITTEN sources. That means you see the
word and PROJECT what to you is the "real" sound. It is nothing more
than the sound fixed in your MIND. Just like some people see the
words "voir dire" and read it as "vwar DI-er."
To them that is real. French people would find that ridiculous.
> >> > Nameplate on front door has vowels???????
>
> >> Sigh ....
>
> > WELL DOES IT?
Does it? Does the phone book? Does it?
Instead of "sigh" would a real answer not be more appropos?
I cannot believe the recalcitrance.
Jacko
Dvora L
Re: Mechon Mamre.org
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 8:53pm
(EDT+4) From: wordswor...@att.net (Leon)
---------------------------------
well --- the original post got past me --
i am assuming it was written out of respect for woman --- you now ---
before equality ????
-
Personally i always liked being treated special -- like a lady --
sheltered and cared for --- but thngs progress ----
Leon
"Eli Grubman" <eli.g...@googlemail.com> wrote >
> Actually, "sex" is the correct word for distinguishing between male
> and female members of the human race. "Gender" is reserved for
> grammar.
>
My Grammar was a female. My Grammpa was a male. Neither one ever asked me,
"Sex?". Somehow they knew, even though they were from "the old country".
Leon
Patty
> On Jul 24, 8:40 am, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 23, 10:47 pm, yacova...@aol.com wrote:
> > Avodah Zara 16b-17a and Gittin 57a contain interpolations of "yeshu"
> > which people are relying on. Unknown to these people, the
> > interpolations do not appear in standard editions like the Judaic
> > Classics sold by Davka and pointed to from the Artscroll site, and the
> > copy on edaf.com. They are also not referenced in the notes from Daf
> > Yomi Advancement Forum or discussed in Rav. Grossman's audio
> > lectures.
>
> censorship.
>
> They appear in the manuscripts, of course, such as the Tractate Aboda
> Zara published by Professor Marx, which comprises the JTS manuscript,
> copied from an Ur-text from the ninth centry in Andalusian Spain
> (there is a section of AZ which has a date in it, allowing the dating
> of the original source manuscript).
>
> > Thanks Cheers
>
> Jacko
My copy on the Judaic Classics CD has the previously censored portions
marked as having been censored, e.g. Sanhedrin 103a. I have verified
it against the online Munich manuscript (354v) and the previously
censored portion has been restored to my CD copy. Gittin 57a is not
marked as having been censored. There is also no such marking for
the Avodah Zarah pages.
So it looks like this is a variant reading which is not mainstream.
Keep going, this is interesting.
Thanks Cheers
Don Levey
"Howard Johnson is right!"
--
Don Levey If knowledge is power,
Framingham, MA and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to sal...@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-pubkey.asc
Eli Grubman
It may have been obvious from your appearance.
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
You can't expect to be treated special - like a lady - and then expect
equal treatment in the workplace etc. It's either equality or it's
not.
Eli
fla...@verizon.net
On 25-Jul-2008, Don Levey <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote:
> "Howard Johnson is right!"
"It's TWOO, it's TWOO!"
Susan
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
> <jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
no, you came up with some quip about when a -form- asks sex.
You with your quip, decided to throw in about having sex and how eager
you are.
In a public place with women that shouldn't be hearing such things.
Here is what you said.
Dvora L
women know something about human reproduction and birth. So what was the
point of the statement?
I believe the expression the French use is "Honi soit qui mal y pense."
Leon
------------------------------
please translate --
---------------------------------
well --- the original post got past me --
before equality ????
-
Personally i always liked being treated special -- like a lady --
sheltered and cared for --- but thngs progress ----
-
You can't expect to be treated special - like a lady - and then expect
equal treatment in the workplace etc. It's either equality or it's
not.
Eli
actually eli your response surprises me ---
expecting equal pay for equal work is not gender related -- it is work
ethic and productivity related ---
-
until the miracle of bringing forth life from ones body is also shared
by men --- i think woman should be treated more gently - respectfully -
and helpfully than men treat one another --
-
G-d really did not create baby boys and girls identically --- that is a
cultural notion and one i disagree with greatly !
Eli Grubman
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:08:41 +0000 (UTC), dvo...@webtv.net (Dvora L)
wrote:
> And I will bet that, with rare exception, single "innocent" Jewish
Precisely. Getting time off for "maternity leave" is contrary to the
whole concept of equal pay for equal work.
>until the miracle of bringing forth life from ones body is also shared
>by men --- i think woman should be treated more gently - respectfully -
>and helpfully than men treat one another --
Men contribute to this "miracle" in their own way.
>G-d really did not create baby boys and girls identically --- that is a
>cultural notion and one i disagree with greatly !
Many people disagree with it. And therefore "equality" is not for
such people.
Eli
yaco...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Manuscripts are "mainstream". The printed text is faulty.
Edited by two apostates.
Jacko
Arthur Kamlet
Eli Grubman <eli.g...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Since I have never "strayed", why would I start now? My replies on printed
>>forms are my way of ridiculing the misuse of "Sex" when the questioner wants
>>to know my gender. Or, maybe, you are not aware of the fact that there is a
>>difference.
>
>Actually, "sex" is the correct word for distinguishing between male
>and female members of the human race. "Gender" is reserved for
>grammar.
The use of gender for disinguihing one's sex goes back hundreds
of years.
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is credited by many for steering the
debate through use of the word gender to replace sex, assuming
the arguments would not be sidetracked by use of the word sex.
Arthur Kamlet
>and female members of the human race. "Gender" is reserved for
>grammar.
A little girl gets into her mother's purse and reads her
dirver's license.
Later she asks her mother, How old are you?
Mother: It's not polite to ask such questions.
Daughter: You're 36. How much do you weigh?
Mother: Again, it's not polite to ask such questions.
Daughter: You weigh 165 pounds.
Mother: How do you know this?
Daughter: I saw your driver's license. And now I know
why you and daddy got divorced.
Mother: How could you know that?
Daughter: It says you got an "F" in Sex.
Don Levey
But it is still incorrect. The word "sex" is used to discuss distinctions
based upon physical difference. The word "gender" is most correctly
used to discuss grammar, but in recent years has also been used (primarily
by psychologists) to discuss personal *identity* ("heterosexual male,"
"trans-gendered female" and the like).
It is also incorrectly used by people who want to refer to sex but
are afraid to use the proper word through some form of neo-Puritanical
oversensitivity.
Eliyahu
> And I will bet that, with rare exception, single "innocent" Jewish
> women know something about human reproduction and birth. So what was the
> point of the statement?
> -------
> I believe the expression the French use is "Honi soit qui mal y pense."
> Leon
> ------------------------------
> sorry leon -- i only speak english --
> please translate --
> ---------------------------------
It's from Old French. "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it" — the
motto of the Order of the Garter.
Eliyahu
Leon
"Eli Grubman" <eli.g...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gojj84pq86mus5b7f...@4ax.com...
Was it the beard or the kipah?
Leon
Leon
"Dvora L" <dvo...@webtv.net> wrote
G-d really did not create baby boys and girls identically --- that is a
cultural notion and one i disagree with greatly !
Shame on you. YOU LOOKED!!!!
Leon
Leon
"Eliyahu" <lro...@gmail.com> wrote
It's from Old French. "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it" — the
motto of the Order of the Garter.
Translated freely, it means everything is dirty if you have a dirty mind.
Some years ago, I was asked to give my opinion about a sculpture by the
Japanese artist Noguchi. It was a round column with a smooth bulge on one
side, half way up. The prospective buyer asked me, ":Do you think this is
obscene?" I couldn't resist pointing to a cube of marble, incised with
decreasing squares. "No, but that one is," I said. The next day both were
gone. I explained to my friend that everything in nature is either round or
straight and if you have an evil mind, everything is suggestive of evil. In
a few minutes, I, too, was gone.
Leon
Leon
<jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5b9eb723-ddd0-4d6b...@u36g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Have you ever been intimate with a form? One with letters on both sides of
its paper? Don't knock it until you have tried it.
I can't believe anyone could guess how eager I am to make love with a piece
of paper. I thought I kept it secret. I only hope you don't discover how I
feel about ballpoint pens. I hope no women are reading this, or, if they
are, they aren't laughing.
Leon
Leon
On behalf of our distinguished colleague Arthur, I wish to apologize to any
women who may accidentally read this. Especially to innocent single women
who may not know it is possible to get an "F" in Sex.
Leon
Eli Grubman
<wordswor...@att.net> wrote:
>
>"Eli Grubman" <eli.g...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>news:gojj84pq86mus5b7f...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:39:02 +0000 (UTC), "Leon"
>> <wordswor...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Eli Grubman" <eli.g...@googlemail.com> wrote >
>>>> Actually, "sex" is the correct word for distinguishing between male
>>>> and female members of the human race. "Gender" is reserved for
>>>> grammar.
>>>>
>>>
>>>My Grammar was a female. My Grammpa was a male. Neither one ever asked me,
>>>"Sex?". Somehow they knew, even though they were from "the old country".
>>
>> It may have been obvious from your appearance.
>>
>> Eli
>>
>
>Was it the beard or the kipah?
>
>Leon
It may have even been your name!
Eli
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> > jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk <jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> <wordswordsNOS...@att.net> wrote:
>>> "Patty" <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote
>>>
>>> > Opinions?
>>>
>>> Who doesn't have opinions? Everybody, even the meek who are waiting
>>> to inherit the Earth have opinions. So the answer, Patty, is "Yes".
>>
>>Careful. I know we have quite an educated group here, but careful
>>about dropping expressions which are from the new testament, into a
>>jewish discussion group, without saying so. It is bad if people pick
>>up such an expression not knowing where it comes from. It's a silly
>>expression too.
>
>
> If you are referring to The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth, for the
> purposes of this newsgoup, that comes directly out of the Hebrew
> Bible.
>
> Ch 37 - you find the book.
I was waiting for someone to point this out. But, I think that "meek"
is a bad translation of "anavim". I would say "modest" or "unassuming".
> Many quotes in the Hebrew Bible were taken out and "re-used,"
> to be nice, by the authors of Christian scriptures.
For sure.
> === === ===
> Years ago I posted annually a "quiz" of Bible quotes, asking
> which were from the Hebrew Bible. I might restart that again.
Looking forward.
> Meanwhile here are a few Biblical quotes. Which of these comes
> from the Hebrew Bible?
>
> 1. "and behold, joy and gladness, killing cattle and killing
> sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine: "Let us eat and drink,
> for tomorrow we will die."
>
> 2. Man does not live by bread alone
>
> 3. Love your neighbor as yourself
>
> 4. I am the first and the last [said God]
>
> 5. Thou, O king, king of kings, unto whom the God of heaven has
> given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory;
>
> 6. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
>
> 7. Behold, I will send you [xxx] the prophet,
> before the coming of the great and terrible day
> of the Lord
>
> 8. And you, go to the end, and you will rest and rise
> to your lot at the end of the days
Cute.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> well --- the original post got past me --
> i am assuming it was written out of respect for woman --- you now ---
> before equality ????
> -
> Personally i always liked being treated special -- like a lady --
You call that "progress"??!!
Micha Berger
> I was waiting for someone to point this out. But, I think that "meek"
> is a bad translation of "anavim". I would say "modest" or "unassuming".
I would say that "anav" means to know one's place. That's not just
modesty, because it also emphasizes doing what you're called upon to
do.
In the most recent post in my blog category "anavah"
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/category/anavah> I summarize the earlier
posts' observations as follows (just as a teaser, I don't think it'll
make the same impression without the full text):
* Anavah is the emulation of Hashem's tzimtzum ("constricting"
Himself to make "room" for us, so to speak). It is this constriction
that made Moshe the greatest of all prophets -- both in his making
"room" in his soul for Hashem's word, but also in Moshe Rabbeinu's
greater insight into what Hashem is all about.
* Anavah is the middle path between ga'avah (egotism) and shefeilus
(lowliness). This might be why the Rambam recommends the Middle
Path with respect to all middos (Dei'os ch 1) but advises going
to the extreme with respect to anavah (2:3). It's the ultimate
pursuit of a blend of the dei'ah's actual extremes.
* Because of this, anavah motivates. It doesn't lead me to believe
I am too puny to get anything done, nor have me complacent in
my accomplishments, real or imagined. We looked at a number of
figures from history who erred in either direction, and portrayed
Esther as an example of someone who found the proper balance. She
accepts Mordechai's "perhaps it was just for a moment like this
that you came to royalty" as well as being willing to say "if I
am to be lost, I will be lost".
* In the same essay I suggested that anavah therefore also brings
happiness, contentment with one's lot, one's role to play in
history. Thus Esther's anavah leads to "when Adar enters, we
increase in joy."
* This is why an enigmatic gemara defines an anav as someone who
always prays in his maqom qavu'ah (permanent, established,
location). Anavah is having one place in the big whole. Rav SR
Hirsch links anavah to the word "anah", to respond (the thesis
of the same essay as the previous point). This ties together the
notion of tzimtzum, leaving room for the other, with the notion
of finding my place and role in the big picture (which in turn
requires the balance between knowing the significance of my place
and knowing that it's not everything).
* And last, I suggested that this is how one gains permanence to
one's accomplishments. By acting toward Hashem's plan, lesheim
Shamayim, one is promised permanence. This is why Moshe couldn't
bring us into Israel, because exile was inevitable. And why
"a congregation" -- and "a dispute" -- "which is for the sake of
heaven, it's end is to be eternal."
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Mussar is like oil put in water,
mi...@aishdas.org eventually it will rise to the top.
http://www.aishdas.org - Rabbi Israel Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> I was waiting for someone to point this out. But, I think that "meek"
>> is a bad translation of "anavim". I would say "modest" or "unassuming".
>
> I would say that "anav" means to know one's place. That's not just
> modesty, because it also emphasizes doing what you're called upon to
> do.
Interesting, thanks.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Nothing snipped
Steve Goldfarb
>Some years ago, I was asked to give my opinion about a sculpture by the
>Japanese artist Noguchi. It was a round column with a smooth bulge on one
>side, half way up. The prospective buyer asked me, ":Do you think this is
>obscene?" I couldn't resist pointing to a cube of marble, incised with
>decreasing squares. "No, but that one is," I said. The next day both were
>gone. I explained to my friend that everything in nature is either round or
>straight and if you have an evil mind, everything is suggestive of evil. In
>a few minutes, I, too, was gone.
Guy's been given a psychiatric evaluation. The doc shows him an ink blot,
asks his opinion: It's two people having sex, he says. Doc shows him
another one - it's a naked woman riding a horse, he says. It continues
like this through the whole deck, each description becoming more lurid
than the next.
"I think you might have an obsession with sex" the doctor says.
"Me?" replies the patient, "you're the one who keeps showing dirty
pictures!"
--s
--
Dvora L
Re: Mechon Mamre.org
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Fri, Jul 25, 2008, 8:16pm
(EDT+4) From: wordswor...@att.net (Leon)
Oh Leon :-)
ofcourse i looked -- they always need clean diapers ---
but that is really not the difference i was talking about --
-
the emotional - psychological - and intellectual differences between
male and female humans involves their entire being -
this has been proven through many scientific tests including brain
mapping --
-
it does not in any way mean that one gender is better than the other --
but they are very different and complement each other in life roles
quite well --
-
G-d did a good job :-)
yaco...@aol.com
> the emotional - psychological - and intellectual differences between
> male and female humans involves their entire being -
> this has been proven through many scientific tests including brain
> mapping --
> -
> it does not in any way mean that one gender is better than the other --
> but they are very different and complement each other in life roles
> quite well --
> -
> G-d did a good job :-)
You just shambled "gay marriage." It denies God's designs.
Jacko
Dvora L
Re: Mechon Mamre.org
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Fri, Jul 25, 2008, 9:16pm
(EDT+4) From: wordswor...@att.net (Leon)
Leon - you seem to know so many unrelated things about so many unrelated
subjects -- that i am hoping it is not an imposition to ask what your
not invisible life experiences were that helped form who you are -- ?
-
If this is an imposition -- just ignor and I will not inquire again --
Dvora
Dvora L
Re: Mechon Mamre.org
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 6:58am
(EDT+4) From: mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
well --- the original post got past me --
i am assuming it was written out of respect for woman --- you now ---
before equality ????
-
Personally i always liked being treated special -- like a lady --
sheltered and cared for --- but things progress ----
You call that "progress"??!!
Moshe Schorr
No Moshe - not in the sense that you mean -- i think it just was my way
of saying that the world changes --
i have a movie machine that only a child can operate -- a telephone with
20 features we can not program -- and i must press 1 for english to hear
instructions when i phone the pharmacy ---
-
all these things have been explained as progress to me when i have
objected ---
but --- you are right -- the misguided notion of equality of males and
females has damaged the lives of both --
-
at one time - a man was highly respected because he worked hard at
improving not only his life but that of his family
-
a woman was held in high esteem to nurture her husband and children - to
make a clean and moral environment for her family -
-
there was not the equality rallies -- people were grateful to have a job
- they worked hard and money was pooled to improve the quality of family
life and pay the bills -
-
i am glad moshe you asked - because you are so right --- no -- this has
been change
- but not progress !
be safe and well -- dvora
-
Eliyahu
> Re: Mechon Mamre.org
>
> Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 6:58am
society, the whole family -- husband, wife, sons and daughters -- all
worked together to grow food and provide the means for survival. The
real problems that have come about stem from a few recent centuries
where we made an assumption that women are somehow less capable of
doing productive work outside the home and that men are incapable of
nurturing children and keeping a house running correctly. There are
things that most women do better than most men, and vice versa, but
it's a mistake to draw from that the conclusion that all women do
those things better than all men, and vice versa. We debated that when
I was a fire fighter, and some of the guys would use the argument that
most women don't have the strength to be firefighters. I countered by
pointing out that neither do most men, and when we test people for the
department, we're testing them as individuals and not as
representatives of a group. The most we could say there is that a
greater percentage of men have what it takes than do women, but that
only affects the likely ratio of men to women on a department and not
whether an individual woman is qualified for it.
I would agree that it's usually better if a mother can stay home and
take care of the children, but that isn't always possible. Men get
laid off or fired and can't always find another job right away.
Couples get divorced, and the woman (who usually has custody of the
kids) still has to pay the rent and feed the family. And sometimes,
the husband just can't make enough to pay the bills by himself,
especially if they live in a part of the country with high housing
costs. There aren't any easy answers, but the difficult answer often
entails the mother going to work either part time or full time and
making arrangements for child care while her hubby pitches in to help
run the house. It's a partnership, after all...
Eliyahu
Jonathan J. Baker
>bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> You ought to tell that to his family because his wife (who was under
>> our medical care) called herself Rabbanit KAPACH. And that's how it's
>> spelled in the telephone directory and what was on the nameplate
>I'll let RSM know.
>Seriously, though, R' Yichyeh el-Qafeh (spelled Quf-fei-hei) is
>well documented in a Google. I admit transliterating the quf with
>So, the Rabbanit at some time decided not to press the point.
It's like Mittleman. One of the VPs at my company is named Mittelman,
he came from Prague in The Sprint, when he was about 14, so he knows how
to spell his own name. Others, who came to AmReika earlier, and may have
had their names spelled for them by immigration officials, phonetically,
are Mittleman. Rather than press the point, they just leave it be.
I mentioned a "Mittleman" to the VP, the VP asked how he spells it, and when
told "LE", responded, "Oh, he gave up."
--
Jonathan Baker | It's almost time ta muze
jjb...@panix.com | about the Destruction.
Blog: http://thanbook.blogspot.com/
Jonathan J. Baker
><yaco...@aol.com> wrote
>>Are you F-ing for real?
>Josh Backon is, according to many of my other colleagues, both real and
>serious in his pursuit of truth and beauty here on the Interned and
>elsewhere. He comes highly recommended by a mutual acquaintance who vouches
>for both his sanity and reality.
I can vouch for his reality. He has been very helpful on our last two
trips to Israel. He's also related to other people I've known for years.
Although I was kinda surprised by his appearance. From his erudition,
I had a mental image of one of those guys in the Empire Chicken ads,
you know, long beard, white lab coat, etc. Instead, clean-shaven tan
fellow, a bit stocky (not fat, I'm fat, I know the difference), in a
windbreaker (it was Spring). We went to Nathan's near Ben Yehuda, for
hot dogs.
Jonathan J. Baker
>> And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
>> pronounced his name as KAPACH.
>Great. The name is still Qafih.
The name in the old country was Qafih, or el-Gafeh, or whatever.
The name in Israel is Kapach.
Let it go, man.
In the old country, my great-great-grandfather was Yaakov Gutkowskij.
In America, he was Jacob Cohen.
In the old country, my sister's father-in-law was Pavel Winterstein.
In Israel, he is Elchanan Gafni.
When he was born, Dad was Sidney Beckerman. In 1939, not wanting to
have a Germanic last name, he changed it (legally) to Sydney Baker.
His cousin George Fishberg became jazz bandleader George Fisher in
London in the 1920s. Another uncle, Arriga Fishberg, became Arnold
Arriga in America. [These are among the Philharmonic Fishbergs, Arnold's
son Jack was the last in 1971]
Then there are stage names. My great-uncle Mischa Fishberg, violinist,
from Ukraine, performed in Poland as Michal Fibere. And when he came
to America, he became Mischa Mischakoff (concertmaster for Toscanini,
later in the Detroit Symphony, with something of a solo career).
People change their names to things more euphonious for the new
environment.
Jonathan J. Baker
>My copy on the Judaic Classics CD has the previously censored portions
>marked as having been censored, e.g. Sanhedrin 103a. I have verified
>it against the online Munich manuscript (354v) and the previously
>censored portion has been restored to my CD copy. Gittin 57a is not
>marked as having been censored. There is also no such marking for
>the Avodah Zarah pages.
>So it looks like this is a variant reading which is not mainstream.
>Keep going, this is interesting.
There are parallel Ashkenazic and Sephardic talmudic textual traditions.
I think the only true Sephardic Talmud printed was the edition of Con-
stantinople in 1608 or thereabouts. The Rif and the Ein Yaakov are
based on Sephardic texts, so they often are valuable sources for variant
readings from the "standard" Ashkenazic text.
Could that be reflected here? A Sephardic text would be more likely
to retain "yeshu" references than one subject to Euro-Christian
censorship.
Jonathan J. Baker
>>My Grammar was a female. My Grammpa was a male. Neither one ever asked me,
>>"Sex?". Somehow they knew, even though they were from "the old country".
From mom:
"Do you herd sheep?" my grandpa asked.
My grandma shrieked in fright!
"Your grammar's wrong," my grandma said:
"HAVE you heard sheep" is right.
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Me?" replies the patient, "you're the one who keeps showing dirty
>pictures!"
Dad tells the same joke.
Another Dad joke:
Why can a Frenchman eat only one egg?
Because one egg is un oeuf.
yaco...@aol.com
> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
> >> And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
> >> pronounced his name as KAPACH.
> >Great. The name is still Qafih.
>
> The name in the old country was Qafih, or el-Gafeh, or whatever.
> The name in Israel is Kapach.
Not in Qiryath Ono, not in Ramat Bet Shemesh, and dozens of toher
places.
It depends to whom one is speaking.
> Let it go, man.
Why?
"Vigilance in the pursuit of liberty is no vice."
Said by a certain Boruch Goldwasser, I believe.
Jacko
Patty
> On Jul 25, 8:39 am, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 12:31 pm, yacova...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 24, 8:40 am, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 23, 10:47 pm, yacova...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > Avodah Zara 16b-17a and Gittin 57a contain interpolations of "yeshu"
> > > > which people are relying on. Unknown to these people, the
> > > > interpolations do not appear in standard editions like the Judaic
> > > > Classics sold by Davka and pointed to from the Artscroll site, and the
> > > > copy on edaf.com. They are also not referenced in the notes from Daf
> > > > Yomi Advancement Forum or discussed in Rav. Grossman's audio
> > > > lectures.
>
> > > They were in the original text of the Talmud, removed due to medieval
> > > censorship.
>
> > > They appear in the manuscripts, of course, such as the Tractate Aboda
> > > Zara published by Professor Marx, which comprises the JTS manuscript,
> > > copied from an Ur-text from the ninth centry in Andalusian Spain
> > > (there is a section of AZ which has a date in it, allowing the dating
> > > of the original source manuscript).
>
> > > > Thanks Cheers
>
> > > Jacko
>
> > My copy on the Judaic Classics CD has the previously censored portions
> > marked as having been censored, e.g. Sanhedrin 103a. I have verified
> > it against the online Munich manuscript (354v) and the previously
> > censored portion has been restored to my CD copy. Gittin 57a is not
> > marked as having been censored. There is also no such marking for
> > the Avodah Zarah pages.
>
> > So it looks like this is a variant reading which is not mainstream.
> > Keep going, this is interesting.
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Manuscripts are "mainstream". The printed text is faulty.
I see. So Artscroll recommends the Davka CD product which is faulty.
>
> Edited by two apostates.
Named?
>
> Jacko- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks & Cheers
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> In <> "Leon" <wordswor...@att.net> writes:
>><yaco...@aol.com> wrote
>
>>>Are you F-ing for real?
>
>>Josh Backon is, according to many of my other colleagues, both real and
>>serious in his pursuit of truth and beauty here on the Interned and
>>elsewhere. He comes highly recommended by a mutual acquaintance who vouches
>>for both his sanity and reality.
>
> I can vouch for his reality. He has been very helpful on our last two
> trips to Israel. He's also related to other people I've known for years.
>
> Although I was kinda surprised by his appearance. From his erudition,
> I had a mental image of one of those guys in the Empire Chicken ads,
I'm Irving Q. Pullet ??
> you know, long beard, white lab coat, etc. Instead, clean-shaven tan
Whom did you expect: Marcus Welby M.D. ? The cantakerous nudnik from
Chicago Hope ? Young Doctor Malone ? Sexy Dr. Kildare? The old Dr. Zorba
from Ben Casey ? Quincy peering over a dead body? The incompetent Dr.
Carter the intern on E.R. ?
I'm like the professor on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND. Actually, more like
the ship's doctor on LOVE BOAT :-)
I'm the one with the medical jokes:
The old timer is getting a little senile so his two sons, Herbie and Louie,
call in a psychiatrist. The doc comes and GEREHT UND GEREHT. Finally,
the old timer picks up his head, turns to Herbie and says, "Tell me.
The MESHUGENER is still here ? "
This little old Jewish guy faints. Someone brings him a pillow, someone
brings him a blanket, and a third person says, "Bring him some water !".
The old timer lifts up his head and whispers, "MAKE IT A MALTED"
The old timer faints. Somebody brings him a pillow, someone brings
him a blanket, another brings a glass of water. This little old
Jewish lady says, "Give him an enema !" When they ask why, she replies,
"IT CAN'T HURT !!"
Three top doctors see this little old Jewish guy walking strangely:
he's hunched over, dragging his right leg and has his hand on his lower
back. One says it's the beginning signs of peritonitis; the other says
it's an orthopedic problem with the acetabulum; the third says it's
an nerve inflammation in the spinal cord at the level of L7. They have
a big argument and finally decide to ask the old timer what happened.
He says, "NEIN, ICH HOB GEVOLT GEBEN A FURTZ HOB IZ INGEMACHT IN DIE
HOISEN" [I thought I had to fart but made in my pants instead]
Old lady Bernstein goes to the gynecologist for a checkup. Her feet
are in the stirrups. The doc pokes his head in and exclaims, "Mrs.
Bernstein, this is amazing ! You have the *cleanest* vagina I have
ever seen ! How do you keep it so clean ??" and she replies (thick
Yiddish accent), "TO TELL YOU DE TRUTH DOKTER, I HAVE A SHVARTZE
COMING IN TVICE A VEEK".
Doctor: "Mr. Bernstein do you have trouble urinating ?"
Old man Bernstein: "Dokter, I pish precisely every morning at 8 am".
Doctor: "What about bowel movements ?"
Old man Bernstein: "Tenks God, every morning at precisely 9 am".
Doctor: "Then what seems to be the problem ?"
Old man Bernstein: "I don't get up until 10 !"
> fellow, a bit stocky (not fat, I'm fat, I know the difference), in a
Unfortunately, it's exactly 9 years to the day when I got sick after
a very prominent cousin of mine (law professor at a prestigious law
school) had to leak me a story about how the US administration is
rightfully blackmailing the Israelis. What shocked me wasn't the
blackmail but the person in the US administration who made the
suggestion. That week he had moved from #5 at the CIA [NIC] to #5 at
the State Dept (head of Policy Planning) and was my best friend
in high school in the 1960's.
Sort of like Sal Tessio in THE GODFATHER: "Tell Michael I always liked
him. What happened [trying to kill him] was nothing personal. IT
WAS STRICTLY BUSINESS!!"
The shock gave me chronic fatigue syndrome with sleep disturbance and
weight gain, and took 10 years off my life. And all because I had
wanted to prevent a very major Chillul Hashem related to the Rabin
assasination.
What's comical is that 4 weeks ago, the Israeli pathologist Dr. Hiss
lost his immunity after the Shabak released him from his secrecy clause
in the Rabin autopsy [against the wishes of Ehud Olmert] but that seems
to be the machinations behind the scene btween the Shabak (violently
opposed to the recent prisoner exchange) and Ehud Olmert.
> windbreaker (it was Spring). We went to Nathan's near Ben Yehuda, for
> hot dogs.
Unfortunately, Nathan's (which was a kosher concession of the famous
Nathan's on Coney Island) closed up 4 years ago.
Josh
yaco...@aol.com
I don't recall off hand.
Try the various online resources for that sort of information.
Felix Pratensis is likely one of them.
Jacko
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Jul 30, 3:04=A0pm, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
>> >> And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
>> >> pronounced his name as KAPACH.
>> >Great. The name is still Qafih.
>> The name in the old country was Qafih, or el-Gafeh, or whatever.
>> The name in Israel is Kapach.
>Not in Qiryath Ono, not in Ramat Bet Shemesh, and dozens of toher
>places.
Do you actually know people who spell their surname kuf-alef-peh-heth
in those places who pronounce it Qafih? Or are you just guessing?
While your correspondent clearly DOES know members of the family
who prounouce it Kapach. I guess, if they were from the Bronx,
they might have switched to Kappock.
>It depends to whom one is speaking.
>> Let it go, man.
>Why?
>"Vigilance in the pursuit of liberty is no vice."
Liberty is one thing. This is simply falsehood. You maintain the
name is pronounced one way, the family itself actually pronounces
it another way.
>Said by a certain Boruch Goldwasser, I believe.
Or AuH2O as a science teacher put it in elementary school.
Jonathan J. Baker
>In article <.com>, Jonathan J. Baker <jjb...@panix.com> writes:
>> In <> "Leon" <wordswor...@att.net> writes:
>>><yaco...@aol.com> wrote
>>>>Are you F-ing for real?
>>>Josh Backon is, according to many of my other colleagues, both real and
>> I can vouch for his reality. He has been very helpful on our last two
>> Although I was kinda surprised by his appearance. From his erudition,
>> I had a mental image of one of those guys in the Empire Chicken ads,
>> you know, long beard, white lab coat, etc. Instead, clean-shaven tan
>Whom did you expect: Marcus Welby M.D. ? The cantakerous nudnik from
I actually met Robert Young once - his grandson lived downstairs from
me in college.
>Chicago Hope ? Young Doctor Malone ? Sexy Dr. Kildare? The old Dr. Zorba
>from Ben Casey ? Quincy peering over a dead body? The incompetent Dr.
>Carter the intern on E.R. ?
>I'm like the professor on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND. Actually, more like
>the ship's doctor on LOVE BOAT :-)
Jack Klugman I could see playing you. Only before his throat surgery.
>> fellow, a bit stocky (not fat, I'm fat, I know the difference), in a
>Unfortunately, it's exactly 9 years to the day when I got sick after
rachmana litzlan. I think we physically met about 10.4 years ago.
>The shock gave me chronic fatigue syndrome with sleep disturbance and
>weight gain, and took 10 years off my life. And all because I had
>wanted to prevent a very major Chillul Hashem related to the Rabin
>assasination.
Oy.
>Unfortunately, Nathan's (which was a kosher concession of the famous
>Nathan's on Coney Island) closed up 4 years ago.
As have most of the American fast food places, I hear. KFC in J'lem
vanished shortly after we last visited in 2002. Most were too expensive
for Israelis, and when the tourist market dried up during Intifada II,
they went out of business.
There was a McDonalds across the street from my sister in Ganei Tikvah,
in the shopping mall on Rechov Hagalil. Kosher fleishic, so my sister
couldn't get what she really liked - the "thick shakes".
I remember McDavid's from 20 years ago, in T-A near Dizengoff Square.
Also Richie's Pizza, the communication center for Americans spending
time in Israel. Before everyone had cellphones, and Facebook, if you
knew that so-and-so was in the country but didn't know where, you left
a message for them on the wall at Richie's Pizza, and eventually they
would get it.
When my college friend was learning in yeshiva, in Israel, about 20
years ago, the only way to communicate was by written letters. No
internet access.
Ah, the old days.
Micha Berger
> As have most of the American fast food places, I hear. KFC in J'lem
> vanished shortly after we last visited in 2002. Most were too expensive
> for Israelis, and when the tourist market dried up during Intifada II,
> they went out of business.
I was there just around a year ago.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> In <us> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>>In article <.com>, Jonathan J. Baker <jjb...@panix.com> writes:
>>> In <> "Leon" <wordswor...@att.net> writes:
>>>><yaco...@aol.com> wrote
>
>>>>>Are you F-ing for real?
>
>>>>Josh Backon is, according to many of my other colleagues, both real and
>
>>> I can vouch for his reality. He has been very helpful on our last two
>
>>> Although I was kinda surprised by his appearance. From his erudition,
>>> I had a mental image of one of those guys in the Empire Chicken ads,
>>> you know, long beard, white lab coat, etc. Instead, clean-shaven tan
>
>>Whom did you expect: Marcus Welby M.D. ? The cantakerous nudnik from
>
> I actually met Robert Young once - his grandson lived downstairs from
> me in college.
Father Knows Best :-)
>
>>Chicago Hope ? Young Doctor Malone ? Sexy Dr. Kildare? The old Dr. Zorba
>>from Ben Casey ? Quincy peering over a dead body? The incompetent Dr.
>>Carter the intern on E.R. ?
>
>>I'm like the professor on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND. Actually, more like
>>the ship's doctor on LOVE BOAT :-)
>
> Jack Klugman I could see playing you. Only before his throat surgery.
>
>>> fellow, a bit stocky (not fat, I'm fat, I know the difference), in a
>
>>Unfortunately, it's exactly 9 years to the day when I got sick after
>
> rachmana litzlan. I think we physically met about 10.4 years ago.
>
>>The shock gave me chronic fatigue syndrome with sleep disturbance and
>>weight gain, and took 10 years off my life. And all because I had
>>wanted to prevent a very major Chillul Hashem related to the Rabin
>>assasination.
>
> Oy.
>
>>Unfortunately, Nathan's (which was a kosher concession of the famous
>>Nathan's on Coney Island) closed up 4 years ago.
>
> As have most of the American fast food places, I hear. KFC in J'lem
> vanished shortly after we last visited in 2002. Most were too expensive
> for Israelis, and when the tourist market dried up during Intifada II,
> they went out of business.
>
$10 for a lousy piece of fried chicken was EPPIS way too expensive for
Israelis who can buy an entire rotisserie BBQ chicken in supermarkets
for $7.
> There was a McDonalds across the street from my sister in Ganei Tikvah,
> in the shopping mall on Rechov Hagalil. Kosher fleishic, so my sister
> couldn't get what she really liked - the "thick shakes".
>
> I remember McDavid's from 20 years ago, in T-A near Dizengoff Square.
> Also Richie's Pizza, the communication center for Americans spending
> time in Israel. Before everyone had cellphones, and Facebook, if you
> knew that so-and-so was in the country but didn't know where, you left
> a message for them on the wall at Richie's Pizza, and eventually they
> would get it.
>
> When my college friend was learning in yeshiva, in Israel, about 20
> years ago, the only way to communicate was by written letters. No
> internet access.
>
Yours truly was the one who got commercial Internet to Israel. It's a great
story. Picture this: Sicily [whoops: Israel] 1986. Faculty at the
university get Internet but a) there is no one to send email to; and b)
none of us ever get any instruction how to use this Unix mishigass.
[At the medical school UNIX was a eunuch :-) ] Not even USENET which
for 2 years I thought was a computer program. Until that fateful day
in 1988 when I'm revising an article (using a 5.25" diskette with
WordStar 2.0 for DOS) on one of the 24 PC's on the 3rd floor of the
medical school library [in those days who had a $3000 PC at home or even
at the office ?] meant for faculty and students. I'm in the last row
the 2nd seat over from the wall. One of my Arab med students [whose brother
today is the head of an Arab political party in the Israeli Knesset]
has his monitor turned so no one sees it. Then I lean back trying to rewrite
a sentence for the article in the cardiology journal and simultaneously
his monitor turns toward me. I see (how should I call it: "topical
anatomy of the female breast" ?) what's on his screen and stammer out,
"Muchamad, MAH ZEH ?" [what's this?] and he replies, "FTP". I say,
"F.T. MI ??? [who ?]" and the rest is history.
He starts explaining to me that all the computers in the room are connected
to a cable that goes to a satellite antenna at the Weizmann Institute
where it bounces off a transponder to a satellite farm in New Jersey and
from there to an undersea cable (under the Hudson River) to a 3rd
sub-basement in a nondescript building on XXX Street in Lower Manhattan
which connects to MAE EAST [in other words: you cut this optical fiber cable:
you knock off all Internet traffic on the East Coast].
Within a year I become a big "macher" on the Internet and co-start the
JEWISHNET which aims to interconnect Jewish Federations, major Jewish
organizations, the Jewish Agency and the Israeli Foreign Ministry's
info dept. In March 1992 I'm on the steering committee with officials of the
Ministry of Communications, Treasury, Jewish Agency, etc. and sit next to
Zvi Ilany then head of the Telecommunications Branch of the Ministry of
Communications. In those days there is zero phone or telecom competition:
only the PTT Bezek. For 2 years the government had refused to offer satellite
licences to 3 competitors of Bezek: Incomm, Israsat and Darcom.
I fumble for my wallet and out pops my "Foreign Ministry" ID card. Zvi
says, "You belong to the Foreign Ministry?" and I say, "No. I have NO
connection to the FM. 'CHUTZ, AVAL LO MISRAD HA'CHUTZ". He then tells
Irving Bond that he has a problem: he has to approve the satellite tariffs
of the phone company but has no idea how much it costs them. [Bezek charged
an outrageous fee of $14,600 per month for a 64K connection. My old modem
at home was 56K]. Bezek refuses to tell him. I say, "Give me 48 hours".
Two days later Irving Bond comes back with a large dossier from COMSAT in
Washington. It seems that it costs Bezek only $480/month. He shleps me to
the minister (Pinchasi of SHAS) who is livid with rage. Pinchasi immediately
signs the order to grant satellite licences to the 3 competitors of Bezek
and appoints me the "public representative" to the Telecom Branch at a token
salary of 1 Shekel per year.
A few months later I petition to add fax (not just data) to the license.
Under the next minister (Shulamit Aloni) I petition to add commercial
Internet and then telephone competition. Prices drop by tens of thousands
of percent.
For the deregulation of Israeli telecom industry (data, faxes, telephony,
commercial Internet) we have to thank Muchamad for the porno :-)
At least he went into plastic surgery. I guess he always appreciated female
anatomy.
Josh
yaco...@aol.com
> In <m> yacova...@aol.com writes:
> >On Jul 30, 3:04=A0pm, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
> >> >> And a nephew of the KAPACH family who was a judge (Tzion KAPACH)
> >> >> pronounced his name as KAPACH.
> >> >Great. The name is still Qafih.
> >> The name in the old country was Qafih, or el-Gafeh, or whatever.
> >> The name in Israel is Kapach.
> >Not in Qiryath Ono, not in Ramat Bet Shemesh, and dozens of toher
> >places.
>
> Do you actually know people who spell their surname kuf-alef-peh-heth
> in those places who pronounce it Qafih? Or are you just guessing?
I actually do. Try his son, Arye, for example.
Why is this so hard for you folks? This isn't some Russain Jews
trying to sound American. These are Jews using the names they have
known each other by for at tleast a thousand years. I UNDERSTAND
regular Ashkenazi Israelis do not get it. That doesn't change how
someone's name is pronounced in their own social environment.
Can't you understand people using one name wiht their close family and
friends and another in the larger Israeli society?
I hapens here in America all the time, in fact. Families you would
hear as "X" I hear as "Y".
> Liberty is one thing. This is simply falsehood. You maintain the
> name is pronounced one way, the family itself actually pronounces
> it another way.
No, you INSIST I drop my experience and confrom it to yours. You are
not an Arabic speaker, you do not even know where to go to see the
people in their communal environment.
Why if it is not true to you it cannot be true? Why must your
ignorance be a general non-existence of the datum?
This is why people like me get frustrated.
Jacko
Yisroel Markov
>On Jul 30, 4:43 pm, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Jul 25, 11:37 am, yacova...@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>> > Manuscripts are "mainstream". The printed text is faulty.
>>
>> I see. So Artscroll recommends the Davka CD product which is faulty.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Edited by two apostates.
>>
>> Named?
>
>I don't recall off hand.
>
>Try the various online resources for that sort of information.
>
>Felix Pratensis is likely one of them.
From the Encyclopaedia Judaica (entry "Bible"):
"By the year 1511 the Soncinos, now at Pesaro, were able to make a new
start and in stages they completed a fourth edition of the complete
Bible. Gershom had used the interval to perfect his technique and this
edition is the best produced by Ashkenazi Jews in Italy. Around this
time Daniel Bomberg, a Christian merchant of Amsterdam, arrived in
Venice and established his printing office there. In 1516–17 he
published the first Great Rabbinic Bible, edited by Felix Pratensis,
who was born a Jew but was baptized in 1506. [...] Even before this
four-volume Bible was published, Bomberg realized that he had made two
bad mistakes: employing an apostate Jew as his editor, and requesting
the pope’s imprimatur. [...] A second edition was called for within
four years, when the whole was reset; on this occasion the two sons of
Baruch Adelkind were mentioned as printers, and great emphasis was
laid on the fact that they were Jews, thoroughly Orthodox and already
engaged in printing the whole of the Talmud.
"...Jacob b. Hayyim ibn Adonijah arrived in Venice after his family
had been driven out of Spain and again out of Tunis. After seven
penurious years of wandering Jacob b. Hayyim found work with Bomberg
in Venice. [...] Jacob b. Hayyim was very conscious of the importance
of the masorah as the guarantee of the correct text, and he went to
great pains and undertook several journeys to secure as many codices
with a masorah as possible. Thus, for the first time, there was a
printed Hebrew Bible with a marginal masorah. [...]
"Daniel Bomberg’s tribulations were not over, for soon after 1525
Jacob b. Hayyim became a Christian. In 1527 Elijah Levita, a refugee
originally from Neustadt near Nuremberg, came to Venice and found
employment with Bomberg. No more is heard of Jacob b. Hayyim, Elijah
Levita being henceforth chief adviser to the Bomberg firm. In
subsequent reprints of the 1524–25 Bible, there is no mention of the
editor."
The entry for "Talmud" mentions Daniel Bomberg as the first printer,
but says nothing about editors.
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Jul 31, 12:07=A0am, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Liberty is one thing. =A0This is simply falsehood. =A0You maintain the
>> name is pronounced one way, the family itself actually pronounces
>> it another way. =A0
>No, you INSIST I drop my experience and confrom it to yours. You are
>not an Arabic speaker, you do not even know where to go to see the
>people in their communal environment.
No, what I see is you taking an absolute position, kedarkecha bakodesh,
and then maintaining it as absolutely true even in the face of contrary
evidence.
>Why if it is not true to you it cannot be true? Why must your
>ignorance be a general non-existence of the datum?
Why must your ignorance equally be a general non-existence of the
other datum?
>This is why people like me get frustrated.
This kind of absolute maintenance of an absolute position in the
face of a nuanced truth (some QFHs you know pronounce it Qafih,
other QFHs other people know pronounce it Kapach) is what gets
people like me, frustrated.
yaco...@aol.com
> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
> >On Jul 31, 12:07=A0am, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> Liberty is one thing. =A0This is simply falsehood. =A0You maintain the
> >> name is pronounced one way, the family itself actually pronounces
> >> it another way. =A0
> >No, you INSIST I drop my experience and confrom it to yours. You are
> >not an Arabic speaker, you do not even know where to go to see the
> >people in their communal environment.
>
> No, what I see is you taking an absolute position, kedarkecha bakodesh,
> and then maintaining it as absolutely true even in the face of contrary
> evidence.
Why is my experince less "evidence" than yours.
For the record **I** see the opposite. I am not at all insisting upon
anything. Two observers see the world dofferently from different
reference frames.
If you did not get that you did NOT READ. So please stop blaming me
for your own inability to comprehend.
I get tried of Jews thinking they know everything. I do not deny that
you know these peole as "Kapach." I am also certain that -- assuming
they are still within the Darda'e circle of things -- when I address
the VERY SAME FOLKS as "Qafih" they would respond, and would not
correct me.
I know the family as Qafih, and always will.
Why is my experience less real than yours, now for the 5th time I have
asked that and you refuse to respond. But to attack me you have a
plethora of words. See why I cannot abide these rejoinders?
I am too old to get Jacked around because I refuse to adopt Ashkenazi
pronunciation, categories and culture.
> >Why if it is not true to you it cannot be true? Why must your
> >ignorance be a general non-existence of the datum?
>
> Why must your ignorance equally be a general non-existence of the
> other datum?
I did not EVER say that. JEEZUZ. Someone is dense here.
I said that in Yemeni circles it is Qafih.
ONCE AGAIN. I do not deny that you know these people as Kapach. That
still is an Ashkenizaiton, and not the original name.
> This kind of absolute maintenance of an absolute position in the
> face of a nuanced truth (some QFHs you know pronounce it Qafih,
> other QFHs other people know pronounce it Kapach) is what gets
> people like me, frustrated.
STRAWMAN.
NO ABSOLUTISTS HERE EXCEPT YOUR ASSERTIONS.
Admit the truth, old man. Or all you quips about the "desturction"
are rank bullshit.
Typical. Buzz words and quips galore, no genuine intellectual values.
Jacko
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:30:20 +0000 (UTC), yaco...@aol.com said:
>>On Jul 30, 4:43 pm, Patty <pajh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> On Jul 25, 11:37 am, yacova...@aol.com wrote:
>>> > Manuscripts are "mainstream". The printed text is faulty.
>>> > Edited by two apostates.
>>> Named?
>>I don't recall off hand.
>>Try the various online resources for that sort of information.
>>Felix Pratensis is likely one of them.
>From the Encyclopaedia Judaica (entry "Bible"):
>"Daniel Bomberg’s tribulations were not over, for soon after 1525
>The entry for "Talmud" mentions Daniel Bomberg as the first printer,
>but says nothing about editors.
According to a colophon in Tr. Soferim, 1523, translated in Marvin
Heller's article in the YU exhibition catalogue on "Printing the
Talmud", the Adelkinds were involved in the Talmud editing. Many
tractates were just copied verbatim from the Soncino's editions,
as they include the same errors.
But other tractates were edited by the Adelkinds.
See http://www.printingthetalmud.org/essays/7.html pg 75.
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Jul 31, 3:53=A0pm, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
>> >On Jul 31, 12:07=3DA0am, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >> Liberty is one thing. =3DA0This is simply falsehood. =3DA0You maintain=
> the
>> >> name is pronounced one way, the family itself actually pronounces
>> >> it another way. =3DA0
>> >No, you INSIST I drop my experience and confrom it to yours. =A0You are
>> >not an Arabic speaker, you do not even know where to go to see the
>> >people in their communal environment.
>> No, what I see is you taking an absolute position, kedarkecha bakodesh,
>> and then maintaining it as absolutely true even in the face of contrary
>> evidence.
>Why is my experince less "evidence" than yours.
It's not my experience, it's Josh's.
>For the record **I** see the opposite. I am not at all insisting upon
>anything. Two observers see the world dofferently from different
>reference frames.
>If you did not get that you did NOT READ. So please stop blaming me
>for your own inability to comprehend.
>I get tried of Jews thinking they know everything. I do not deny that
>you know these peole as "Kapach." I am also certain that -- assuming
>they are still within the Darda'e circle of things -- when I address
>the VERY SAME FOLKS as "Qafih" they would respond, and would not
>correct me.
Whereas I DO DENY that I know anyone named QAFH, nor do I know how they
pronounce their names firsthand.
That was R' Dr. Josh Backon, who lives in Israel, who knows some QAFHs
who pronounce it KAPACH.
And you complain that *I* show inability to comprehend.
>I know the family as Qafih, and always will.
Good for you. Except, apparently, for the ones who prounce it Kapach.
>Why is my experience less real than yours, now for the 5th time I have
>asked that and you refuse to respond. But to attack me you have a
>plethora of words. See why I cannot abide these rejoinders?
Why is Josh's experience less real than yours? Answer that one, and
maybe you'll have an answer for your own question.
>I am too old to get Jacked around because I refuse to adopt Ashkenazi
>pronunciation, categories and culture.
Say what you want, but I trust Dr Josh to report accurately how people
HE knows pronounce their surnames.
>> >Why if it is not true to you it cannot be true? =A0Why must your
>> >ignorance be a general non-existence of the datum?
>> Why must your ignorance equally be a general non-existence of the
>> other datum?
>I did not EVER say that. JEEZUZ. Someone is dense here.
You keep saying it over and over.
>I said that in Yemeni circles it is Qafih.
Perhaps it is. But to prove your point, you'd have to find the SAME
people that Dr Josh knows, and ask them what they do.
>ONCE AGAIN. I do not deny that you know these people as Kapach. That
Whereas I DO DENY it. Since I don't know them.
You seem to map your every correspondent who disagrees with you,
onto me. Perhaps I should be honored.
>still is an Ashkenizaiton, and not the original name.
As Cohen is an anglicization of Gutkowsky HaKohen, and Gafni is
a Hebraicization of Winterstein.
Why is it so hard to believe that people, on coming to the new
country, change their name to something the locals can deal with?
jamesh...@yahoo.co.uk
<snip>
>
> > Meanwhile here are a few Biblical quotes. Which of these comes
> > from the Hebrew Bible?
>
> > 1. "and behold, joy and gladness, killing cattle and killing
> > sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine: "Let us eat and drink,
> > for tomorrow we will die."
>
> > 2. Man does not live by bread alone
>
> > 3. Love your neighbor as yourself
>
> > 4. I am the first and the last [said God]
>
> > 5. Thou, O king, king of kings, unto whom the God of heaven has
> > given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory;
>
> > 6. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
>
> > 7. Behold, I will send you [xxx] the prophet,
> > before the coming of the great and terrible day
> > of the Lord
>
> > 8. And you, go to the end, and you will rest and rise
> > to your lot at the end of the days
>
> Cute.
>
He posted all that, and that's the best you can say? why say anything
at all?
The word "Cute" is not a hebraic word,
and you should know that in Britain, it's a word that only girls use.
I've seen many classic american films, and never has arnold
shwarzenegger used the term "cute"
We are at WAR with arabs , how can we succeed with your mentality of
using words like "cute". Jews could die on account of this.
Yisroel Markov
<jjb...@panix.com> said:
>In <> yaco...@aol.com writes:
[snip]
>>ONCE AGAIN. I do not deny that you know these people as Kapach. That
>
>Whereas I DO DENY it. Since I don't know them.
Not relevant, since you're siding with R' Dr. Josh here.
>You seem to map your every correspondent who disagrees with you,
>onto me. Perhaps I should be honored.
>
>>still is an Ashkenizaiton, and not the original name.
>
>As Cohen is an anglicization of Gutkowsky HaKohen, and Gafni is
>a Hebraicization of Winterstein.
>
>Why is it so hard to believe that people, on coming to the new
>country, change their name to something the locals can deal with?
I think that's exactly what Jacko is saying. That, or that they go
along with however the dominant population mangles their name.
(I go by "Izzy" in the office, although it's technically short for
Yitzhak, rather than Yisroel, simply because that's easiest for my
co-workers.)
yaco...@aol.com
> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
> >On Jul 31, 3:53=A0pm, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
> >> >On Jul 31, 12:07=3DA0am, Jonathan J. Baker <jjba...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >> Liberty is one thing. =3DA0This is simply falsehood. =3DA0You maintain=
> > the
> >> >> name is pronounced one way, the family itself actually pronounces
> >> >> it another way. =3DA0
> >> >No, you INSIST I drop my experience and confrom it to yours. =A0You are
> >> >not an Arabic speaker, you do not even know where to go to see the
> >> >people in their communal environment.
> >> No, what I see is you taking an absolute position, kedarkecha bakodesh,
> >> and then maintaining it as absolutely true even in the face of contrary
> >> evidence.
> >Why is my experince less "evidence" than yours.
>
> It's not my experience, it's Josh's.
Then you offer nothing to this discussion. Why not just write "what
he said."
> Whereas I DO DENY that I know anyone named QAFH, nor do I know how they
> pronounce their names firsthand.
Then you misled me. You offer NOTHING here.
> That was R' Dr. Josh Backon, who lives in Israel, who knows some QAFHs
> who pronounce it KAPACH.
>
> And you complain that *I* show inability to comprehend.
I have no idea what you offered to this discussion. You wrote as if
you have some evidence. You have none.
> >I know the family as Qafih, and always will.
>
> Good for you. Except, apparently, for the ones who prounce it Kapach.
Pronounce to WHOM? You assume people use the same pronunciation with
everyone. Hardly any Sefaradies have ever done that. We do not
chnage our names, just their outward sound to the public outside of
our communities.
> >Why is my experience less real than yours, now for the 5th time I have
> >asked that and you refuse to respond. But to attack me you have a
> >plethora of words. See why I cannot abide these rejoinders?
>
> Why is Josh's experience less real than yours? Answer that one, and
> maybe you'll have an answer for your own question.
It is not. They are not inconsistent. He INSISTS he "knows". I know
better. He hears the pronunicaiton used with foreigners. He cannot
accept that he is --to them -- a foreigner.
You cannot accept that either.
I know what I heard. I know what I hear.
> >I am too old to get Jacked around because I refuse to adopt Ashkenazi
> >pronunciation, categories and culture.
>
> Say what you want, but I trust Dr Josh to report accurately how people
> HE knows pronounce their surnames.
And I trust my ears. We hear different pronunciations. You cannto
accept that so in some weird medievalism you see this as a clash of
"objects."
Grow up and get in this century. Different observers observe
differently. Objects are not identical accross all time and space.
>I did not EVER say that. JEEZUZ. Someone is dense here.
>
> You keep saying it over and over.
No I did not YOU DO. God! Unbearable.
I said he hears A and I hear B. YOu say the object can be ONLY ONE.
It has ot have a "real" pronunciaiton.
So be Platonic. Who cares.
> >I said that in Yemeni circles it is Qafih.
>
> Perhaps it is. But to prove your point, you'd have to find the SAME
> people that Dr Josh knows, and ask them what they do.
No I do not. The name and family is well known, and I am one degree
of separation from the Rabbi's children, and know many of his
colleagues from the Jerusalem Bet Din.
Face it already. I hear what I hear and you do not know anything at
all about it.
And you perhaps cannot accept that I have an inside track on an
Oriental community which trumps your beloved Josh's pontifications.
Jacko
yaco...@aol.com
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:54:17 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan J. Baker
>
> >In <> yacova...@aol.com writes:
>
> [snip]
>
> >>ONCE AGAIN. I do not deny that you know these people as Kapach. That
>
> >Whereas I DO DENY it. Since I don't know them.
>
> Not relevant, since you're siding with R' Dr. Josh here.
>
> >You seem to map your every correspondent who disagrees with you,
> >onto me. Perhaps I should be honored.
>
> >>still is an Ashkenizaiton, and not the original name.
>
> >As Cohen is an anglicization of Gutkowsky HaKohen, and Gafni is
> >a Hebraicization of Winterstein.
>
> >Why is it so hard to believe that people, on coming to the new
> >country, change their name to something the locals can deal with?
>
> I think that's exactly what Jacko is saying. That, or that they go
> along with however the dominant population mangles their name.
Exactly, the latter. In the Midrash and the Knis, everyone uses the
original name. Outside, if it is a fellow Oriental, he addresses them
by their true name. In this case -- Qafih.
If the people here had even the slightest knowledge of how Bet Qafih
was treated by the Israelis in the 1930s and 40s, and how young Mori
Yossef was treated when he first arrived, they would understand the
"going along."
That does not mean an original Jew would change the girsa of his name
used within his community. We do not change girsa'oth. Period. We
certainy do not change the sounds of an Arabic name to those of
Israeli Hebrew, except for outsiders.
> (I go by "Izzy" in the office, although it's technically short for
> Yitzhak, rather than Yisroel, simply because that's easiest for my
> co-workers.)
My family uses one pronunciation with gentiles and Ashkenazim, and
another in the synagogue and community. Most Sefaradim do the same.
I grew up knowing two versions of every family's name.
But all that never really existed because Josh Backon has to be right
all the time.
My world has to conform to the "real" reality.
Next time he meets a "Bailey" the Syrian name "baleh" will cease to
exist I suppose. And Mr. Baker will write "yeah, what he said; no
more "Ba'leh."
Alice in Wonderland.
Jacko
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> On Jul 27, 7:49=A0am, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> > Meanwhile here are a few Biblical quotes. Which of these comes
>> > from the Hebrew Bible?
>>
>> > 1. "and behold, joy and gladness, killing cattle and killing
>> > sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine: "Let us eat and drink,
>> > for tomorrow we will die."
>>
>> > 2. Man does not live by bread alone
>>
>> > 3. Love your neighbor as yourself
>>
>> > 4. I am the first and the last [said God]
>>
>> > 5. Thou, O king, king of kings, unto whom the God of heaven has
>> > given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory;
>>
>> > 6. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
>>
>> > 7. Behold, I will send you [xxx] the prophet,
>> > before the coming of the great and terrible day
>> > of the Lord
>>
>> > 8. And you, go to the end, and you will rest and rise
>> > to your lot at the end of the days
>>
>> Cute.
>
> He posted all that, and that's the best you can say? why say anything
> at all?
The meaning behind that comment was that he took some quotes from the
Jewish Bible that are well known and that people think come from a
non-Jewish source.
> The word "Cute" is not a hebraic word,
The language of this NG is English.
> and you should know that in Britain, it's a word that only girls use.
I don't live in Britain and nver did. Thanks for the heads-up but I
shall continue to ise it with it's American nuance.
> I've seen many classic american films, and never has arnold
> shwarzenegger used the term "cute"
I have no idea and couldn't care less.
> We are at WAR with arabs , how can we succeed with your mentality of
> using words like "cute". Jews could die on account of this.
ROTFLOL! Good thing I had no liquid in my mouth when I read this.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Eliyahu
<jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 7:49 am, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Meanwhile here are a few Biblical quotes. Which of these comes
> > > from the Hebrew Bible?
>
> > > 1. "and behold, joy and gladness, killing cattle and killing
> > > sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine: "Let us eat and drink,
> > > for tomorrow we will die."
>
> > > 2. Man does not live by bread alone
>
> > > 3. Love your neighbor as yourself
>
> > > 4. I am the first and the last [said God]
>
> > > 5. Thou, O king, king of kings, unto whom the God of heaven has
> > > given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory;
>
> > > 6. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
>
> > > 7. Behold, I will send you [xxx] the prophet,
> > > before the coming of the great and terrible day
> > > of the Lord
>
> > > 8. And you, go to the end, and you will rest and rise
> > > to your lot at the end of the days
>
> > Cute.
>
> He posted all that, and that's the best you can say? why say anything
> at all?
>
> The word "Cute" is not a hebraic word,
Neither are any of the words you used in your post. So what?
>
> and you should know that in Britain, it's a word that only girls use.
That's the Brit's loss, then. It's a word used by both sexes here in
many situations. What word would you use to describe a six-week-old
kitten or puppy? ...never mind. As angry as you seem to be, I can
only imagine.
>
> I've seen many classic american films, and never has arnold
> shwarzenegger used the term "cute"
"Classic American films" are no more representative of mainstream
America than Monty Python and Are You Being Served are representative
of Britain. They do tend to create the impression that we're all
gangsters and cowboys, though.
>
> We are at WAR with arabs , how can we succeed with your mentality of
> using words like "cute". Jews could die on account of this.
Bit of a stretch, don't you think?
Eliyahu
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:54:17 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan J. Baker
><jjb...@panix.com> said:
>>In <> yaco...@aol.com writes:
>[snip]
>>>ONCE AGAIN. I do not deny that you know these people as Kapach. That
>>
>>Whereas I DO DENY it. Since I don't know them.
>Not relevant, since you're siding with R' Dr. Josh here.
ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT, because he attacks me for my PERSONAL knowledge
of these people, which I do not have. It's symptomatic of sloppy
thinking, which is a charge he often levels at his opponents.
>>As Cohen is an anglicization of Gutkowsky HaKohen, and Gafni is
>>a Hebraicization of Winterstein.
>>Why is it so hard to believe that people, on coming to the new
>>country, change their name to something the locals can deal with?
>I think that's exactly what Jacko is saying. That, or that they go
>along with however the dominant population mangles their name.
No, he's saying they keep their old names. Josh points out that
some do not. He won't accept that.