Simple questions (yah, right)
Shlomo Chaim
I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions, though.
1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does one
use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I thought,
gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I picked up
on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the guys,
and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried, because I
had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued to walk
around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the stove
back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from a
pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
place?)
3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles, and besides, I think I
would have needed something to burn for 48 hours, anyway, no? Anyway, I was
a bit disappointed last night because there was no existing flame available
to light the Shabbos candles.
4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
5) Can I light a candle from an existing flame, and then use that candle to
light another? For example, I have a long skinny candle that I could light
on a stove pilot light (if I had one) and then carry it across the house to
where I normally light candles. Or, possibly, I could have gone next door
and asked to use the neighbors pilot light, etc.
6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
Thanks,
Shlomo
Dan Kimmel
"Shlomo Chaim" <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> wrote in message
news:cjo65k$84m$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
>
> I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions,
though.
>
> 1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does
one
> use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I thought,
> gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I picked
up
> on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the guys,
> and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried, because
I
> had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued to
walk
> around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
It's the same thing. The first is a combination of English ("good") and
Hebrew ("yom tov"), the second is Yiddish. If someone spilled soup in your
lap would you call him a "clumsy fellow" or a "shlemiehl?" (Or something
not to be repeated in a family forum? :) )
Think of it as the choice between "Gut Shabbes" (Yiddish) and "Shabbat
Shalom" (Hebrew).
> 4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
Nu? They should sit around in the dark? Although typically a "woman's
mitzvot," there is nothing prohibiting a man from lighting Shabbos candles.
> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
I'll be interested in this too. Except for during Passover there's nothing
in there that is unkosher, but no doubt someone will argue that one can't be
too sure that the corn syrup or food coloring wasn't dedicated to Ba'al
worship. :)
Micha Berger
: "Shlomo Chaim" <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> wrote in message
: news:cjo65k$84m$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
:> 1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff....
: It's the same thing. The first is a combination of English ("good") and
: Hebrew ("yom tov"), the second is Yiddish...
Gutt (pronounced "Goot") Yuntif would be Yiddish. It's a mixture of
English and a second language either way.
-mi
Micha Berger
: 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
: electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? ...
No, one can not even raise or lower a flame on Shabbos. On Yom Tov
("Yuntif", if you prefer <g>), it is okay AFAIK because you're lighting
gas using an existing fire.
: 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
: yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
: The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles, and besides, I think I
: would have needed something to burn for 48 hours, anyway, no?
You can use one yahrzeit light to light the next one.
Or, just leave one burner on, and use a small candle (birthday, Chanukah) to
transfer the fire. When you're done, put the candle down in a holder and let
it burn out. If you're really quick, you can do the same thing with matches
and silver-foil as the holder, but I don't recommend it.
: 4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
They're obligated to, AFAIK.
: 5) Can I light a candle from an existing flame, and then use that candle to
: light another?
On yom tov, I assume.
: 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
: households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
I thought there was one printed in the middle of the cap.
Something can have a certifier and not print a logo. Frustratingly,
that silence seems to be the norm in the UK.
Perhaps you should bookmark web pages like Star-K's for a list of which
unlabeled or K labeled products are on their "recommended" list.
-mi
--
Micha Berger Time flies...
mi...@aishdas.org ... but you're the pilot.
http://www.aishdas.org - R' Zelig Pliskin
Fax: (270) 514-1507
Horav Hagaon Onan Ben Drusoy MD (Morally Deficient)
> one
> use one salutation as opposed to the other?
Just wait for Simchas Torah, when you will be asking the difference between
kush mir in tuches and kush mayn tuches after about 10 drinks.
>
> 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
> electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove?
If you have insurance, pour benzine over the stove and you'll get a new one
in time for next Shabbos.
> 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
> yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
> The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles,
Candles are candles. After all, on the yortzite of the Avnei Skila,
Creedmoorimlach light fortzen.
>
> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
Is there a hechsher on Drano? You see plenty of that in shuls and frum
homes. When something has no taste, no nutritional value, and no redeeming
features, like Pepsi, it does not need a hechsher.
OBD, whose piskei halacha have made many a rov tell him "farmach dein pisk!"
Fiona
"Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote
> Shlomo Chaim <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> wrote:
> : 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various
frum
> : households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What
gives?
>
> I thought there was one printed in the middle of the cap.
>
> Something can have a certifier and not print a logo. Frustratingly,
> that silence seems to be the norm in the UK.
There seems to be a concern among UK manufacturers that obviously "alien"
marks will discourage non-Jews from buying their product and they don't want
to limit their potential market. From this point of view your US OU symbol
is great, it is inconspicuous and yet recognisable to those who need to
know, unfortunately most European (inc. UK) kashrut authorities like to use
large symbols, often with lots of Hebrew on them, which draw attention to
themselves. These scare non-Jewish manufacturers and punters. The London and
Manchester Beth Dins have made some attempt to tone down with the their
"house" and "target" symbols but neither achieve the simple effectiveness of
the OU symbol.
Fiona
Fiona
though.
>
> 1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does
one
> use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I thought,
> gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I picked
up
> on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the guys,
> and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried, because
I
> had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued to
walk
> around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
Both are Yidlish, Gutt Yomtov/yuntif is Yiddish, the Hebrew is Hag Sameach
which neatly side-steps the redundancy of Yom-Tov Tov :-)
> 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
> electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
> naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
> accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the
stove
> back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from
a
> pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
> place?)
Not on Shabbat, altough on on Yom Tov the lighting would be permissable but
turning off wouldn't.
> 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
> yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
> The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles, and besides, I think
I
> would have needed something to burn for 48 hours, anyway, no? Anyway, I
was
> a bit disappointed last night because there was no existing flame
available
> to light the Shabbos candles.
There are seven day candles available from Israel.
> 4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
Yes and yes.
> 5) Can I light a candle from an existing flame, and then use that candle
to
> light another? For example, I have a long skinny candle that I could light
> on a stove pilot light (if I had one) and then carry it across the house
to
> where I normally light candles. Or, possibly, I could have gone next door
> and asked to use the neighbors pilot light, etc.
Yes and maybe, you cannot ask a non-Jew to do for you that which you are
forbidden to do for yourself, although there are workarounds, but CYCLOR.
> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
Not everything that is kosher needs a hechsher.
Fiona
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
>
> I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions, though.
>
> 1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does one
No difference. "Yuntiff" is Yiddish.
> use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I thought,
> gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I picked up
> on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the guys,
> and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried, because I
> had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued to walk
> around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
>
> 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
> electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
No !!
> naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
> accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the stove
> back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from a
> pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
> place?)
>
On YomTov (e.g. Passover, Sukkot) [but NOT Shabbat] there are those who
permit adjusting the height of the flame, assuming there already is one.
> 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
> yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
> The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles, and besides, I think I
> would have needed something to burn for 48 hours, anyway, no? Anyway, I was
> a bit disappointed last night because there was no existing flame available
> to light the Shabbos candles.
>
There are Yahrzeit candles that last a whole week [good to also have
during a power failure]
> 4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
>
Yes.
> 5) Can I light a candle from an existing flame, and then use that candle to
> light another? For example, I have a long skinny candle that I could light
> on a stove pilot light (if I had one) and then carry it across the house to
> where I normally light candles. Or, possibly, I could have gone next door
> and asked to use the neighbors pilot light, etc.
>
Yes. (we're referring to Yom Tov only]
> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
>
Certain Pepsi bottling plants may have kosher certification.
Josh
> Thanks,
>
> Shlomo
>
>
>
>
Z
>
>I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions, though.
>
>1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does one
>use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I thought,
>gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I picked up
>on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the guys,
>and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried, because I
>had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued to walk
>around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
Heh heh, the old gut Shabbes / szabbot szalom dilemma. Yuntiff is
Yiddish and why it's 'good' and not 'gut' beats me.
Generally to Israelis and Separdim I say Szabat Szalom /chag sameach and
to Ashkenazim Gut Shabbes/os / gut yontiff.
>
>2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
>electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
>naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
>accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the stove
>back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from a
>pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
>place?)
No, one can't turn on a stove. It is prohibited to light a flame,
kindle(adjust) or extinguish a flame.
>
>4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
Yes. The honour is given to a woman if there is one in the household.
>6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
>households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
>
Many products are supervised kosher but don't have hechshers marked on
the product- Coca cola is a case in point, sorry I don't know about
Pepsi I haven't tried it in years.
Some products don't need hechshers eg in UK pure butter, pure vegetable
oil, egg noodles but consult your Rabbi.
We don't have hechshers as discrete as some of the American ones OU,
star-K, OK and some even have written "The court of the chief rabbi
of..." which I guess puts off non Jewish consumers. This is a shame
because the distribution of these products than gets limited and Jews in
the provinces have to take a 300 mile round trip for a tub of margarine.
This is one thing where the UK is sometimes more overstated than the
Americans. The regular LBD is quite discrete though.
In the UK there is a publication called "the really Jewish food guide"
which has listed tons of stuff that is actually kosher but not marked
so. There is probably a similar publication in your area and there are
certainly kashrus agency websites OU/ starK / K half moon/ Beth K.
>Thanks,
>
>Shlomo
>
>
>
>
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.
Ken Bloom
> I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions, though.
Most of the group has answered already, but I feel the need to add a few
things.
> 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
> electronic ignition, on Shabbat,
Not on shabbat, but on yom tov.
> can they turn on their stove? I'm not
> naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
> accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the stove
> back on again.
That's OK, for the same reason as the candles in question 5. You can light
a flame from an existing flame on Yom Tov, and a pilot light is an
existing flame.
An electric ignition is not an existing flame because it creates a spark
when you trigger it (which is not an existing flame, nor was it caused by
an existing flame).
> (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from a
> pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
> place?)
Maybe they didn't. Maybe this was during cooking.
Or maybe they had turned it on for shabbat, but shabbat hadn't started
yet, so they turned it on again for shabbat.
> 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
> yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
> The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles, and besides, I think I
> would have needed something to burn for 48 hours, anyway, no?
You could light a new 24 hour candle when the first one is about to go out.
They also make 7-day candles. For an example, see
http://www.alleghenycandles.com/wholesale7day.html
I think you should be able to get these at your local drugstore.
> Anyway, I was
> a bit disappointed last night because there was no existing flame available
> to light the Shabbos candles.
>
> 5) Can I light a candle from an existing flame, and then use that candle to
> light another? For example, I have a long skinny candle that I could light
> on a stove pilot light (if I had one) and then carry it across the house to
> where I normally light candles. Or, possibly, I could have gone next door
> and asked to use the neighbors pilot light, etc.
If you're going next door, you might want to use something that can stand
up to wind better. Like the aforementioned 7-day candles, or a tiki torch.
> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
Pepsi is kosher without certification. See http://www.kosherquest.org/
--
I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment.
See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures.
"All the spots [of tzarat] that a man sees on others, are his own."
-- from the Mishna, as interpreted according to the Ba'al Shem Tov
Eliyahu Rooff
"Z" <po...@imaris.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zrVpDsIr...@imaris.demon.co.uk...
> In article <cjo65k$84m$1...@falcon.steinthal.us>, Shlomo Chaim
> <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com> writes
> >
> >I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions,
though.
> >
> >1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where
does one
> >use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I
thought,
> >gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I
picked up
> >on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the
guys,
> >and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried,
because I
> >had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued
to walk
> >around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
>
> Heh heh, the old gut Shabbes / szabbot szalom dilemma. Yuntiff is
> Yiddish and why it's 'good' and not 'gut' beats me.
>
spoken in a sentence or phrase, and it's easy to slur the "t" a bit when
we're used to saying "good" in most other greetings. (Good morning, good
evening, good day, etc.)
Eliyahu
Shlomo Chaim
"Horav Hagaon Onan Ben Drusoy MD (Morally Deficient)"
<stour...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2sa9ddF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> 1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does
>> one
>> use one salutation as opposed to the other?
>
> Just wait for Simchas Torah, when you will be asking the difference
> between kush mir in tuches and kush mayn tuches after about 10 drinks.
Fortunately I have a lot of padding in the tuches. This also comes in handy
on Purum. Especially if I have to cross the dance floor in order to get to
the bar.
Harry Weiss
> : 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> : households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
> I thought there was one printed in the middle of the cap.
There are beverages whose syrup is certified. Some local bottlers have
ceritification and others don't. In the US as long as the syrup is certified, most
authorities will accept the beverages. But there will be no ceritifcation on the
container.
Last I heard, Pepsico products were ceritified by Rabbi Charlap.
Coke Products were ceritified by the OU.
> Something can have a certifier and not print a logo. Frustratingly,
> that silence seems to be the norm in the UK.
> Perhaps you should bookmark web pages like Star-K's for a list of which
> unlabeled or K labeled products are on their "recommended" list.
> -mi
> --
> Micha Berger Time flies...
> mi...@aishdas.org ... but you're the pilot.
> http://www.aishdas.org - R' Zelig Pliskin
> Fax: (270) 514-1507
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Love that header. :-)
> I know, I know, five Jews, fifty answers. I do have a few questions, though.
>
> 1) Good Yom Tov vs. Good Yuntiff. What is the difference, and where does one
> use one salutation as opposed to the other? Before the holiday I thought,
> gee, I would like to have something nice to say to everyone, and I picked up
> on "Good yom tov". So, here I am at Shul, shaking hands with all the guys,
> and hearing "Good yuntiff" from them. No matter how hard I tried, because I
> had already done such a good job of programming myself, I continued to walk
> around, like an drone, saying yom tov rather than yuntiff.
Yuntoff is the Yiddishized version of Yom Tov. I have no idea how
that happened.
> 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
> electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
> naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
> accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the stove
> back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from a
> pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
> place?)
Absolutely forbidden on Shabbos. Maybe it was Yuntoff (or Yom Tov)
that you saw it happen?
> 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
> yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
> The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles,
So? You can use a yortzite candle.
> and besides, I think I would have needed something to burn for
> 48 hours, anyway, no?
No. Just use _two_ yortzite candles. Light the first with the first
days' candles and the second with the second's.
> Anyway, I was a bit disappointed last night because there was no
> existing flame available to light the Shabbos candles.
See above.
> 4) Do single guys light Shabbos candles? Divorced guys?
Yes, yes.
> 5) Can I light a candle from an existing flame, and then use that candle to
> light another? For example, I have a long skinny candle that I could light
> on a stove pilot light (if I had one) and then carry it across the house to
> where I normally light candles. Or, possibly, I could have gone next door
> and asked to use the neighbors pilot light, etc.
Yes.
> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
Here in Israel, Pepsi has a _very_ good hekhsher.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
snip
> There are Yahrzeit candles that last a whole week [good to also have
> during a power failure]
C'mon Josh. A power failure that lasts a _week_!!
snip
>> 6) I notice Pepsi and other kinds of sodas at the shul and at various frum
>> households. Hey, man, there ain't no hekhshers on that stuff. What gives?
>
> Certain Pepsi bottling plants may have kosher certification.
In Uman in the Ukraine, many were drinking the local Pepsi.
Dan Kimmel
<mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:2004Oct1...@mm.huji.ac.il...
> "Shlomo Chaim" <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> writes:
>
>
> > 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
> > electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
> > naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
> > accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the
stove
> > back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner
from a
> > pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the
first
> > place?)
>
> Absolutely forbidden on Shabbos. Maybe it was Yuntoff (or Yom Tov)
> that you saw it happen?
I'm going to be difficult here. Obviously turning on the stove to cook
violates Shabbat, but I would think relighting the pilot light is an
exception, unless you're hoping that allowing gas to seep out of the stove,
leading to potential asphyxiation or explosion, is a positive
non-life-threatening situation.
>
> > 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
> > yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you
use?
> > The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles,
>
> So? You can use a yortzite candle.
>
> > and besides, I think I would have needed something to burn for
> > 48 hours, anyway, no?
>
> No. Just use _two_ yortzite candles. Light the first with the first
> days' candles and the second with the second's.
What if you are fortunate enough not to have any yahrzeits?
Dan Kimmel
That should read, "In Uman in Ukraine..." They dropped the "the."
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>> "Shlomo Chaim" <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> writes:
>>
>> > 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
>> > electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
>> > naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
>> > accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the
> stove
>> > back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner
> from a
>> > pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the
> first
>> > place?)
>>
>> Absolutely forbidden on Shabbos. Maybe it was Yuntoff (or Yom Tov)
>> that you saw it happen?
>
> I'm going to be difficult here. Obviously turning on the stove to cook
> violates Shabbat, but I would think relighting the pilot light is an
> exception, unless you're hoping that allowing gas to seep out of the stove,
> leading to potential asphyxiation or explosion, is a positive
> non-life-threatening situation.
There's a simpler solution. Turn off the _pilot light_!
>> > 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
>> > yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you
> use?
>> > The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles,
>>
>> So? You can use a yortzite candle.
>>
>> > and besides, I think I would have needed something to burn for
>> > 48 hours, anyway, no?
>>
>> No. Just use _two_ yortzite candles. Light the first with the first
>> days' candles and the second with the second's.
>
> What if you are fortunate enough not to have any yahrzeits?
May you continue to be so fortunate. Some have a custom to light one
yortzite candle for the "house".
Tim Meushaw
Unless you have a yahrzeit on every Yom Tov (God forbid), you'd have
this problem anyway. The yahrzeit candles are just a convenient name
for "candle that burns for 24 hours" (or, in my case "burns 25 hours the
first day, 22 the second day and goes out just before you realize it's
getting low and you need to change it to a new lamp", as happened both on
Sukkot and Shmini Atzeret this year).
(I figure you're still being difficult, but I answered in case you're
not, and anyway, there's lurkers who might want to know.... :-) )
Tim
--
Timothy A. Meushaw
meu...@pobox.com
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> "Dan Kimmel" <daniel...@rcn.com> writes:
>> <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>>> "Shlomo Chaim" <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> writes:
>>>
>>> > 2) If a person has an older stove with a pilot light as opposed to an
>>> > electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
>>> > naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
>>> > accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the
>> stove
>>> > back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner
>> from a
>>> > pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the
>> first
>>> > place?)
>>>
>>> Absolutely forbidden on Shabbos. Maybe it was Yuntoff (or Yom Tov)
>>> that you saw it happen?
>>
>> I'm going to be difficult here. Obviously turning on the stove to cook
>> violates Shabbat, but I would think relighting the pilot light is an
>> exception, unless you're hoping that allowing gas to seep out of the stove,
>> leading to potential asphyxiation or explosion, is a positive
>> non-life-threatening situation.
>
> There's a simpler solution. Turn off the _pilot light_!
The TZOMET Institute came out with an automatic gas shutoff switch when
it senses (on shabbat) the possibility of a gas leak.
Josh
Dan Kimmel
<bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:cke2fg$n5i$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
> In article <2004Oct1...@mm.huji.ac.il>, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il writes:
> > "Dan Kimmel" <daniel...@rcn.com> writes:
> >> I'm going to be difficult here. Obviously turning on the stove to cook
> >> violates Shabbat, but I would think relighting the pilot light is an
> >> exception, unless you're hoping that allowing gas to seep out of the
stove,
> >> leading to potential asphyxiation or explosion, is a positive
> >> non-life-threatening situation.
> >
> > There's a simpler solution. Turn off the _pilot light_!
>
>
> The TZOMET Institute came out with an automatic gas shutoff switch when
> it senses (on shabbat) the possibility of a gas leak.
Interesting. So my hypothetical was not so far-fetched after all.
Ja...@fas.harvard.edu
>No, one can not even raise or lower a flame on Shabbos. On Yom Tov
>("Yuntif", if you prefer <g>), it is okay AFAIK because you're lighting
>gas using an existing fire.
Also, the Star K says that it's allowed to turn off a gas stove
on yom tov: it doesn't make charcoal and it's dangerous to leave it on.
>You can use one yahrzeit light to light the next one.
Most grocery stores with large Hispanic populations have 8" tall candles
which will burn for like a week which cost like $1 each.
>Or, just leave one burner on, and use a small candle (birthday, Chanukah) to
>transfer the fire. When you're done, put the candle down in a holder and let
>it burn out. If you're really quick, you can do the same thing with matches
>and silver-foil as the holder, but I don't recommend it.
I originally learned that it's a problem to use the head of a match
here because of the chemical reaction involved, but I'm having trouble
figuring out what the melacha would be.
Janet
Eliyahu Rooff
<Ja...@fas.harvard.edu>; <E.Ros...@fas.harvard.edu>;
"Fr...@fas.harvard.edu :" <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:ckef2j$vnm$3...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu...
| Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> writes:
| >No, one can not even raise or lower a flame on Shabbos. On Yom
Tov
| >("Yuntif", if you prefer <g>), it is okay AFAIK because you're
lighting
| >gas using an existing fire.
|
| Also, the Star K says that it's allowed to turn off a gas stove
| on yom tov: it doesn't make charcoal and it's dangerous to leave
it on.
|
| >You can use one yahrzeit light to light the next one.
|
| Most grocery stores with large Hispanic populations have 8" tall
candles
| which will burn for like a week which cost like $1 each.
|
festooned with pictures of their Xtian gods and saints. Potential AZ
problem?
Eliyahu
Micha Berger
: I originally learned that it's a problem to use the head of a match
: here because of the chemical reaction involved, but I'm having trouble
: figuring out what the melacha would be.
If the phosphate will ignite at temperatures lower than "a hand would be
scalded by it", it is very hard to light it from an existing flame rather
than getting it to start a new one. By the time you've gotten the match to
the existing flame, it's lit!
-mi
--
Micha Berger "The most prevalent illness of our generation is
mi...@aishdas.org excessive anxiety.... Emunah decreases anxiety:
http://www.aishdas.org 'The Almighty is my source of salvation; I will
Fax: (270) 514-1507 trust and not be afraid.'" (Isa 12) -Shalhevesya
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Dan Kimmel <daniel...@rcn.com> wrote:
>><mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>
>>> > 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
>>> > yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
>>> > The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles,
>>>
>>> So? You can use a yortzite candle.
>>>
>>> > and besides, I think I would have needed something to burn for
>>> > 48 hours, anyway, no?
>>>
>>> No. Just use _two_ yortzite candles. Light the first with the first
>>> days' candles and the second with the second's.
>>
>> What if you are fortunate enough not to have any yahrzeits?
>
> Unless you have a yahrzeit on every Yom Tov (God forbid), you'd have
> this problem anyway.
I assume Dan meant to ask that if you have no yahrzeits you're not
likely to have yahrzeit candles in the house.
> The yahrzeit candles are just a convenient name for "candle that
> burns for 24 hours" (or, in my case "burns 25 hours the first day,
> 22 the second day and goes out just before you realize it's
> getting low and you need to change it to a new lamp", as happened
> both on Sukkot and Shmini Atzeret this year).
Change brands.
> (I figure you're still being difficult,
Not at all.
> but I answered in case you're
> not, and anyway, there's lurkers who might want to know.... :-) )
Two good reasons.
Tim Meushaw
> Tim Meushaw <meu...@pobox.com> writes:
>> Dan Kimmel <daniel...@rcn.com> wrote:
>>><mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>>>> "Shlomo Chaim" <shlomo_chiam@ya~hoo.com (take out the ~)> writes:
>>>> > 3) Regarding the need to light candles from an existing flame, such as
>>>> > yesterday, given the absence of an existing pilot light, what do you use?
>>>> > The only 24 hour candles I have are yortzite candles,
>>>>
>>>> So? You can use a yortzite candle.
>>>>
>>>> > and besides, I think I would have needed something to burn for
>>>> > 48 hours, anyway, no?
>>>>
>>>> No. Just use _two_ yortzite candles. Light the first with the first
>>>> days' candles and the second with the second's.
>>>
>>> What if you are fortunate enough not to have any yahrzeits?
>>
>> Unless you have a yahrzeit on every Yom Tov (God forbid), you'd have
>> this problem anyway.
>
> I assume Dan meant to ask that if you have no yahrzeits you're not
> likely to have yahrzeit candles in the house.
We don't have any yahrzeits (B"H), but we buy them. Gotta have
something that burns 24 hours.... :-) I figured everyone bought them
just because they had to have something for Yom Tov. Otherwise, you'd
only need them two or three times a year (yahrzeits, and Yom Kippur I
believe).
>> The yahrzeit candles are just a convenient name for "candle that
>> burns for 24 hours" (or, in my case "burns 25 hours the first day,
>> 22 the second day and goes out just before you realize it's
>> getting low and you need to change it to a new lamp", as happened
>> both on Sukkot and Shmini Atzeret this year).
>
> Change brands.
Oddly enough, we did. That's why it lasted 25 hours instead of 20.
Time to find another new brand....
cindys
"Tim Meushaw" <meu...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:slrncmnhd7....@athens.meushaw.com...
> >> The yahrzeit candles are just a convenient name for "candle that
> >> burns for 24 hours" (or, in my case "burns 25 hours the first day,
> >> 22 the second day and goes out just before you realize it's
> >> getting low and you need to change it to a new lamp", as happened
> >> both on Sukkot and Shmini Atzeret this year).
> >
> > Change brands.
>
> Oddly enough, we did. That's why it lasted 25 hours instead of 20.
> Time to find another new brand....
-----------------------
Light a really big scented candle. It lasts for days, and your house smells
nice too.
Best regards,
---- Cindy S.
Ja...@fas.harvard.edu
>If the phosphate will ignite at temperatures lower than "a hand would be
>scalded by it", it is very hard to light it from an existing flame rather
>than getting it to start a new one. By the time you've gotten the match to
>the existing flame, it's lit!
So there's no halachic significance to "spontaneous" ignition at
temperatures above yad soledet bo? It just occurred to me that the
cardboard of a match (without the tip) would ignite before touching
the flame.
Janet
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Ja...@fas.harvard.edu, E.Ros...@fas.harvard.edu, "Fr...@fas.harvard.edu": <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> wrote:
> : temperatures above yad soledet bo? It just occurred to me that the
> : cardboard of a match (without the tip) would ignite before touching
> : the flame.
>
> where the edge of a flame is. So I picked a point unquestionably outside
> of it. Therefore a match that lit at that point (and nearly all will)
> is *certainly* a new flame and not an enlargement of the old.
I'm wondering. If you hold the wick of a candle _above_ an existing
flame it will ignite after a few seconds. Are you saying such a
procedure is forbidden on Yom Tov? It seems clear to an Am HaAretz
like me that the new flame is an "extension" if not an "enlargement"
of the old one.
> If I would have to guess, the edge of a flame is that blue corona
> around the yeallow-orange interior. But I never saw it discussed.
Maybe it wasn't discussed because it doesn't make a difference?
Just asking.
Micha Berger
: I'm wondering. If you hold the wick of a candle _above_ an existing
: flame it will ignite after a few seconds. Are you saying such a
: procedure is forbidden on Yom Tov? It seems clear to an Am HaAretz
: like me that the new flame is an "extension" if not an "enlargement"
: of the old one.
The title word of parashas Beha'alosekha (when you raise) is problematic.
I'm sure Moshe has also heard a number of divrei Torah about it. The verse
reads "Speak to Aaron and say to him, "When you raise (beha'alosekha) the
lamps, toward the direction of the face of the menorah you shall light
the 7 lamps.'" Why does it say "beha'alosekha", and not "behadliqekha"
(when you kindle)?
We learn from this the halakhah that when the kohein lights the menorah, he
is NOT to put it in the flame, but rather hold it near the flame and let
it ignite by itself.
The typical devar Torah uses this law to teach a lesson about education.
The best motivated student is not indoctrinated, but brought close to the
Torah so that his passion will ignite on its own.
But in any case, we see that when the Torah wants to describe the process
for lighting that Moshe asks about, it will not call it hadlaqah. Lighting
from a fire and causing something to ignite by being near the fire are
different things.
-mi
--
Micha Berger When we long for life without difficulties,
mi...@aishdas.org remind us that oaks grow strong in contrary
http://www.aishdas.org winds, and diamonds are made under pressure.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Peter Marshall
Micha Berger
:> But in any case, we see that when the Torah wants to describe the
:> process for lighting that Moshe asks about, it will not call it
:> hadlaqah. Lighting from a fire and causing something to ignite by
:> being near the fire are different things.
: Assuming you're right, why should one method be preferable on YomTov
: to the other?
Because one is extending an existing fire. The other is starting a new
one -- albeit with the aid of heat from the first. The heat triggers
a chemical reaction in the matchhead which then (admittedly within too
little time to perceive) starts a second fire.
-mi
--
Micha Berger The mind is a wonderful organ
mi...@aishdas.org for justifying decisions
http://www.aishdas.org the heart already reached.
Fax: (270) 514-1507
Yisroel Markov
>Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> writes:
>> Ja...@fas.harvard.edu, E.Ros...@fas.harvard.edu, "Fr...@fas.harvard.edu": <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> : So there's no halachic significance to "spontaneous" ignition at
>> : temperatures above yad soledet bo? It just occurred to me that the
>> : cardboard of a match (without the tip) would ignite before touching
>> : the flame.
>>
>> Actually I just wanted to keep away from questions I can't answer about
>> where the edge of a flame is. So I picked a point unquestionably outside
>> of it. Therefore a match that lit at that point (and nearly all will)
>> is *certainly* a new flame and not an enlargement of the old.
>
>I'm wondering. If you hold the wick of a candle _above_ an existing
>flame it will ignite after a few seconds. Are you saying such a
>procedure is forbidden on Yom Tov? It seems clear to an Am HaAretz
>like me that the new flame is an "extension" if not an "enlargement"
>of the old one.
FWIW, a few years ago one of these candles in our house burned out
before we had to light for the second day of Yom Tov. We still had one
of those cheap halogen torchieres; the halogen bulbs in these things
are *really* hot. (For this reason I got rid of it the moment
fluorescent bulb torchieres appeared at the local store. I - and many
fire departments - recommend everybody who still has them get rid of
them pronto.) So I asked a rabbi, and he permitted me to light a match
from this halogen bulb.
>> If I would have to guess, the edge of a flame is that blue corona
>> around the yeallow-orange interior. But I never saw it discussed.
>
>Maybe it wasn't discussed because it doesn't make a difference?
>Just asking.
AFAIK, lighting on Yom Tov only from a pre-existing fire is a
precaution because of an uncertainty. There's a strong possibility
that lighting fire from scratch on Yom Tov is completely OK, but the
Gemara (Beitza 10, IIRC) fails to reach a definitive agreement on the
issue. So perhaps since the prohibition may not exist at all, we don;t
have to be especially careful about how we light from an existing
flame.
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Yisroel Markov
<henry....@virgin.net> said:
>"Yisroel Markov" <ey.m...@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:416d57fa...@News.individual.net...
[snip]
>> FWIW, a few years ago one of these candles in our house burned out
>> before we had to light for the second day of Yom Tov. We still had
>one
>> of those cheap halogen torchieres; the halogen bulbs in these things
>> are *really* hot. (For this reason I got rid of it the moment
>> fluorescent bulb torchieres appeared at the local store. I - and
>many
>> fire departments - recommend everybody who still has them get rid of
>> them pronto.) So I asked a rabbi, and he permitted me to light a
>match
>> from this halogen bulb.
>>
>> >> If I would have to guess, the edge of a flame is that blue corona
>> >> around the yeallow-orange interior. But I never saw it discussed.
>> >
>> >Maybe it wasn't discussed because it doesn't make a difference?
>> >Just asking.
>>
>> AFAIK, lighting on Yom Tov only from a pre-existing fire is a
>> precaution because of an uncertainty. There's a strong possibility
>> that lighting fire from scratch on Yom Tov is completely OK, but the
>> Gemara (Beitza 10, IIRC) fails to reach a definitive agreement on
>the
>> issue. So perhaps since the prohibition may not exist at all, we
>don;t
>> have to be especially careful about how we light from an existing
>> flame.
>>
>
>Why do you have a problem with the second night lighting? We find it
>necessary to have the gas stove on throughout Yom Tov and we take a
>light from that.
Not everyone has a gas stove, Henry. At that apartment we had an
electric one.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> :> But in any case, we see that when the Torah wants to describe the
> :> process for lighting that Moshe asks about, it will not call it
> :> hadlaqah. Lighting from a fire and causing something to ignite by
> :> being near the fire are different things.
>
> : Assuming you're right, why should one method be preferable on YomTov
> : to the other?
>
> Because one is extending an existing fire. The other is starting a new
> one -- albeit with the aid of heat from the first. The heat triggers
> a chemical reaction in the matchhead which then (admittedly within too
> little time to perceive) starts a second fire.
I was aking (in this post) about lighting a _candle_ from an existing
candle with the second candle touching the first. After we can agree
about that, we can discuss matches. :-)
BTW, isn't all fire some kind of "chemical reaction"?
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> writes:
>> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> :> But in any case, we see that when the Torah wants to describe the
>> :> process for lighting that Moshe asks about, it will not call it
>> :> hadlaqah. Lighting from a fire and causing something to ignite by
>> :> being near the fire are different things.
>>
>> : Assuming you're right, why should one method be preferable on YomTov
>> : to the other?
>>
>> Because one is extending an existing fire. The other is starting a new
>> one -- albeit with the aid of heat from the first. The heat triggers
>> a chemical reaction in the matchhead which then (admittedly within too
>> little time to perceive) starts a second fire.
>
> I was aking (in this post) about lighting a _candle_ from an existing
> candle with the second candle touching the first. After we can agree
> about that, we can discuss matches. :-)
Make that with the second candle NOT touching the first.
Micha Berger
: I was aking (in this post) about lighting a _candle_ from an existing
: candle with the second candle touching the first. After we can agree
: about that, we can discuss matches. :-)
No, the problem is specifically with matches. (Or, I guess,
gunpowder-impregnated firework wick.) The head on a match causes it to
ignite at low tempreatures -- when it's reasonable to say the match didn't
enter the first flame and extend it. For one candle to light another,
the second must be close to the same temperature as the flame on the
first -- at which point, it's arguably one flame.
-mi
--
Micha Berger A person must be very patient
mi...@aishdas.org even with himself.
http://www.aishdas.org - attributed to R' Nachman of Breslov
Fax: (270) 514-1507
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> : I was aking (in this post) about lighting a _candle_ from an existing
> : candle with the second candle touching the first. After we can agree
> : about that, we can discuss matches. :-)
>
> No, the problem is specifically with matches. (Or, I guess,
> gunpowder-impregnated firework wick.) The head on a match causes it to
> ignite at low tempreatures -- when it's reasonable to say the match didn't
> enter the first flame and extend it. For one candle to light another,
> the second must be close to the same temperature as the flame on the
> first -- at which point, it's arguably one flame.
Even though the flame seems to "leap" from one candle to the other?
Words like "reasonable to say" and "arguably" betoken a "gut feeling"
rather than a clear psak. Not that I'm arguing against it. But I can
"hear" a different conclusion.
Micha Berger
: Even though the flame seems to "leap" from one candle to the other?
: Words like "reasonable to say" and "arguably" betoken a "gut feeling"
: rather than a clear psak. Not that I'm arguing against it. But I can
: "hear" a different conclusion.
If you recall, this thread started when Janet reported being sent this
pesaq in a mailing from the star-K. It was a ruling I had heard before,
and therefore had a theory as to why it should be true. The "reasonable"
and "arguably" are only on my "sevara" (theory), not the ruling itself.
-mi
--
Micha Berger "Fortunate indeed, is the man who takes
mi...@aishdas.org exactly the right measure of himself, and
http://www.aishdas.org holds a just balance between what he can
Fax: (270) 514-1507 acquire and what he can use." - Peter Latham
Shlomo Argamon
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il writes:
The problem with all these arguments, to my mind, is that we shouldn't
be "thinking" so much about what temperature things are at to
determine "is this or is this not the same flame" - as in other areas
of halakha, it depends on what is directly perceptible to ordinary
folks. If it looks like one flame being transferred - it is. (Note
that defining precisely in terms of physics what is one versus two
flames is very very tricky...)
-Shlomo-
Harry Weiss
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il writes:
> -Shlomo-
I think you are correct. If you took two candles with wicks of different
materials, would not their combustion be at different temperatures. I
have also seen in a number of books that one may put a match on the burner
of an electric stove and that is considered transfering a flame.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Shlomo Argamon
Harry Weiss <hjw...@panix.com> writes:
> I think you are correct. If you took two candles with wicks of different
> materials, would not their combustion be at different temperatures. I
> have also seen in a number of books that one may put a match on the burner
> of an electric stove and that is considered transfering a flame.
I heard that the stove has to be red-hot, i.e., *visibly* heated, for
this to be OK. Makes sense.
-Shlomo-
Chano
"Shlomo Argamon" <arg...@NOargamonSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:tighdos...@sunlight.cs.biu.ac.il...
It has to be hot enough so that straw placed on it would catch fire.
Chano
>
> -Shlomo-
>
John
> electronic ignition, on Shabbat, can they turn on their stove? I'm not
> naming any names, but I saw somebody turn the flame off on their stove
> accidentally and then, with the pilot light justification, turned the stove
> back on again. (I'm thinking that if it is OK to light a stove burner from a
> pilot light, then why did they bother to leave their stove on in the first
> place?)
>
Someone may have mentioned this but I just bought a GE stove and it
has a Shabbat feature.
Tim Meushaw
> "John" <jo...@tclsales.com> wrote in message
> news:7ea7a377.04101...@posting.google.com...
>> Someone may have mentioned this but I just bought a GE stove and it
>> has a Shabbat feature.
>
> for a variety of reasons (let's just say it has issues ...) and have
> considered replacing it. It's a gas stove and oven.
Do ya one better, Julie:
http://www.star-k.org/cons-appl.htm
Whole list of ovens approved by Star-K for Shabbat/Yom Tov use. When
our oven started going bad (thermostat stopped working properly), we got
a Kitchenaid on their approved list. In "Sabbath" mode (though it's
really a Yom Tov mode), you can open the door without the light coming
on, the electronic panel goes blank except for the word SAB, no
indicators come on when you open the door, you adjust the temperature by
holding in number keys for a couple of seconds, but then the temperature
doesn't change instaneously, it waits a random amount of time (the time
varies each time) before changing so it's not quite like you directly
caused the oven to change temperature though everyone knows you did, the
oven doesn't turn itself off after being on for 12 hours... err,
I think that's it. We've been very happy with it.
The problem with ovens, FYI, is that you can buy one that says it's got
a "Sabbath" mode on it, but any manufacturer can put that on their
product. What it usually means is only that the oven overrides the
12-hour automatic shutoff safety feature. But you'd still have problems
with the light coming on, it yelling at you to close the door, etc.
Star-K looked at a whole bunch of ovens and their model numbers and
confirmed directly which ones meet their guidelines and which don't.
That was a lot of text for a simple answer: "Get one off their list."
Harry Weiss
> "John" <jo...@tclsales.com> wrote in message
> news:7ea7a377.04101...@posting.google.com...
> Model number and gas or electric? I'm unhappy with my stove
> for a variety of reasons (let's just say it has issues ...) and have
> considered replacing it. It's a gas stove and oven.
> --
> Julianne Frances Haugh Life is either a daring adventure
> txj...@austin.rr.com or nothing at all.
> -- Helen Keller
There are a whole slew of them. Check the Star K web site. It will list
the various models and much more.
cindys
> On 2004-10-21, Julie <txj...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> > "John" <jo...@tclsales.com> wrote in message
> > news:7ea7a377.04101...@posting.google.com...
> >> Someone may have mentioned this but I just bought a GE stove and it
> >> has a Shabbat feature.
> >
> > Model number and gas or electric? I'm unhappy with my stove
> > for a variety of reasons (let's just say it has issues ...) and have
> > considered replacing it. It's a gas stove and oven.
>
> Do ya one better, Julie:
> http://www.star-k.org/cons-appl.htm
>
> Whole list of ovens approved by Star-K for Shabbat/Yom Tov use. When
> our oven started going bad (thermostat stopped working properly), we got
> a Kitchenaid on their approved list. In "Sabbath" mode (though it's
> really a Yom Tov mode),
Actually, it could serve a Sabbath purpose as well. My son (kvell) pointed
this out to me. Last Friday night, as I went to remove the dinner from the
oven, he asked me if our oven had a Sabbath mode because if it didn't, I
couldn't open the oven door. (I pointed out to him that I had turned the
oven off before candlelighting :-). However, there are situations where the
oven would still be on for Shabbos. These are: Someone forgot to turn it
off, and the food is still inside or the food was mostly but not totally
cooked, and it was left in there to finish cooking (I can't cite the
definitive halacha on this -- whether the food has to be 1/2 cooked or 1/3
cooked or 2/3 cooked, but someone else could fill in), the oven has
deliberately been left on low because someone is leaving a cooked cholent in
there to stay warm. Depending on one's shittah (I know this post will be
sent to the human moderator because of that word!), it may or may not be
permissible to open the oven door more than once to retrieve the food.
Many/most/some rabbis hold that if shabbos has begun, the oven door may be
opened only once and all the food must be removed at the same time (because
opening the door will cause the oven to start heating to the pre-set
temperature). This is not a problem/less of a problem if there is no food in
the oven because there's no benefit/advantage to an empty oven heating
itself up again. With Sabbath mode, one would be permitted to open the oven
door multiple times for Shabbos to retrieve the cooked food, rather than
having to remove it all at once (for those who hold by that shittah)(there's
that word again!).
As always, the above is for the purposes of discussion only and is not a
psak (halachic ruling). CYLOR (Consult your local orthodox rabbi).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Tim Meushaw
> "Tim Meushaw" <meu...@pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:slrncnfdv4....@athens.meushaw.com...
>> Whole list of ovens approved by Star-K for Shabbat/Yom Tov use. When
>> our oven started going bad (thermostat stopped working properly), we got
>> a Kitchenaid on their approved list. In "Sabbath" mode (though it's
>> really a Yom Tov mode),
> -----------
> Actually, it could serve a Sabbath purpose as well. My son (kvell) pointed
> this out to me. Last Friday night, as I went to remove the dinner from the
> oven, he asked me if our oven had a Sabbath mode because if it didn't, I
> couldn't open the oven door. (I pointed out to him that I had turned the
> oven off before candlelighting :-). However, there are situations where the
> oven would still be on for Shabbos. These are: Someone forgot to turn it
> off, and the food is still inside or the food was mostly but not totally
> cooked, and it was left in there to finish cooking (I can't cite the
> definitive halacha on this -- whether the food has to be 1/2 cooked or 1/3
> cooked or 2/3 cooked, but someone else could fill in), the oven has
> deliberately been left on low because someone is leaving a cooked cholent in
> sent to the human moderator because of that word!), it may or may not be
> permissible to open the oven door more than once to retrieve the food.
> Many/most/some rabbis hold that if shabbos has begun, the oven door may be
> opened only once and all the food must be removed at the same time (because
> opening the door will cause the oven to start heating to the pre-set
> temperature). This is not a problem/less of a problem if there is no food in
> the oven because there's no benefit/advantage to an empty oven heating
> itself up again. With Sabbath mode, one would be permitted to open the oven
> door multiple times for Shabbos to retrieve the cooked food, rather than
> that word again!).
First off, let's see if creative editing of Cindy's cursing gets this
past hand moderation. :-)
You're right, all of the features come in handy on Shabbat except for
being able to change the temperature. Sometimes I'll set the temperature
to its lowest setting (170F), then set the timer to turn the oven off
a couple of hours later (at a time when I know we'll have already taken
the food out) so it stays warm until we're ready to eat, which isn't
usually right after candlelighting.
> As always, the above is for the purposes of discussion only and is not a
> psak (halachic ruling). CYLOR (Consult your local orthodox rabbi).
Thanks for the warning Rav Cindy. :-)
Shabbat shalom,