What is a Torah shrine?
mm
buying a cabinet door at a Ft. Lauderdale auction for 37 dollars, and
he figures out that it is one of the doors from the ark of the Ben
Ezra Synagogue in Cairo.
I don't know who was narrating or being interviewed, maybe someone
from the local museum, and he said about the cabinet, the ark, that
it was "technically a Torah shrine".
Have any of you ever heard an ark called a Torah shrine? By a Jew?
What's a shrine, I ask myself. My father was a Shriner, but that
doesn't help. So I look it up.
1. a building or other shelter, often of a stately or sumptuous
character, enclosing the remains or relics of a saint or other holy
person and forming an object of religious veneration and pilgrimage.
2. any place or object hallowed by its history or associations: a
historic shrine.
3. any structure or place consecrated or devoted to some saint,
holy person, or deity, as an altar, chapel, church, or temple.
4. a receptacle for sacred relics; a reliquary.
So I looked up relic. None of them apply.
Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
Also, I can see imagine someone not Jewish might think the ark
fulfills the definition of a shrine, but where does the word
"technically" come from? Don't some Jews with at least a tiny bit of
authority have to call something a shrine before it's a shrine? Has
any Jew done so?
But I'm certainly not criticizing the owner. He's donated it to the
Walters Museum in Baltimore and Yeshiva U, which will take turns
exhibiting it.
http://art.thewalters.org/viewwoa.aspx?id=18422
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
Joe Bruno
A shrine is a site or object dedicated to comemorating someone which
usually has an image of that person included in it.
Since Judaism, in accordance with the commandment prohibiting the
worship of graven images, does not allow such images, the name "Torah
shrine" is quite an impossibility.It sounds like something someone
completely ignorant of Judaism would say.
Evertjan.
> Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
"The vulgar crowd commit a deadly sin in calling the sacred shrine simply
"chest" (Shab. 32a).
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=A&artid=1778
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Amitai
> mm wrote on 15 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>
> > Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
>
> "The vulgar crowd commit a deadly sin in calling the sacred shrine simply
> "chest" (Shab. 32a).
>
> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=A&artid=1778
>
> --
"On account of two sins 'amme ha-arez die: because they call the holy
ark a chest, and because they call a synagogue beth-'am."
Translating 'amme ha-arez as vulgar crowd is marginally acceptible,
but the "aron haqodesh" is properly translated as holy ark, not
sacred shrine.
Amitai
Fiona Abrahami
>
>A story on the radio, a local story, about some guy in S. Florida
> buying a cabinet door at a Ft. Lauderdale auction for 37 dollars, and
> he figures out that it is one of the doors from the ark of the Ben
> Ezra Synagogue in Cairo.
>
> I don't know who was narrating or being interviewed, maybe someone
> from the local museum, and he said about the cabinet, the ark, that
> it was "technically a Torah shrine".
>
> Have any of you ever heard an ark called a Torah shrine? By a Jew?
The confusion may have occured because in Mizrahi communities we call the
place in the synagogue where the sifrei Torah are stored the Hekhal, in some
large Eastern shuls these were actually large enough to be a separate room
rather than just a cupboard. And I have seen Hekhal translated as shrine, I
wouldn't do it myself, but I have seen it, e.g.
http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9780631187288_chunk_g978063118728813_ss1-245
> What's a shrine, I ask myself. My father was a Shriner, but that
> doesn't help. So I look it up.
>
> 1. a building or other shelter, often of a stately or sumptuous
> character, enclosing the remains or relics of a saint or other holy
> person and forming an object of religious veneration and pilgrimage.
> 2. any place or object hallowed by its history or associations: a
> historic shrine.
> 3. any structure or place consecrated or devoted to some saint,
> holy person, or deity, as an altar, chapel, church, or temple.
> 4. a receptacle for sacred relics; a reliquary.
These definition assume Christianity as a reference point, nevertheless, the
Hekhal in Solomon's Temple was a space where the Menorah, the Mizbeah
HaZahab, and the Lehem haPannim stood, so it could, at a stretch be called a
shrine in accordance to definition 3 (I'm not comfortable with it, but the
logic works).
Fiona
Itzhak Schier
> On Dec 15, 8:26 pm, "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivo...@interxnl.net> wrote:> mm wrote on 15 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>
> > > Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
>
> > "The vulgar crowd commit a deadly sin in calling the sacred shrine simply
> > "chest" (Shab. 32a).
>
> >http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=A&artid=1778
>
> > --
>
> The Soncino translation is:
> "On account of two sins 'amme ha-arez die: because they call the holy
> ark a chest, and because they call a synagogue beth-'am."
BS"D
There is a conservative house of worship in NJ called "Beth Am".
Don Levey
There are many synagogues known as "Beth Am".
--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
Steve Goldfarb
>> There is a conservative house of worship in NJ called "Beth Am".
>There are many synagogues known as "Beth Am".
I heard there was in the Jersey Shore known as "Trans Am."
(OK, I made that up)
--s
--
mm
Yes, in Baltimore also, also C, fairly near downtown, using a building
that a congregation left behind when it moved to the suburbs in 1966
or 8 and sold in 1974. It occurred to me years ago that they might
be calling it Beth Am (House of the people) in contrast to Beth El,
(House of G-d) and trying to make a point. Going possibly as far as
the notion that it was a house more dedicated to humans than to God.
Or even farther? (That's the reason the name is a sin, right?) I
didn't realize until this thread that there's a particular warning or
decrial of this name. I wonder if this was known to either
congregation before the name was shown.
Their webpage says who suggested the name, but it doesn't say anything
about her, and only this much about what meaning they attach to it:
"Beth Am lives up to this guide from the preamble to our Bylaws:
... We are respectful of tradition, but are not bound by it. The
past is not to be mere prologue, but neither is it to control our
decisions. We want to feel free to introduce innovations that are in
harmony with our view of the quality of women and men, and our
understanding of Jewish law as a dynamic process which combines
continuity with change.
Jewish study and teaching are more important to us than recitation
of prayers; Jewish ethics, as they have evolved and have been refined
by centuries of Jewish experience, are our on-going concern.
In hope that we can implement these ideas and ideals in an
institution, we founded Beth Am and called it "the house of the
people." ".
While looking to find more about the woman who suggested the name, I
came across this. from Monroe, Lousiana, which I find ineresting.
From http://www.bayou.com/~suelynn/OldObits/oct1909.html
The News-Star
Saturday, October 30, 1909 -- Note the date.
Page 4, Column 4
LOUIS KAPLAN DEAD
Well Known Jewish Citizen Dies After Short Illness
Mr. Louis Kaplan, one of Monroe's best known Jewish citizens, and for
some years prominent in business circles, died at his home on North
Fourth street at 10:30 o'clock last night after a short illness.
Surrounded by his wife and friends the end came peacefully after
bidding them good bye. Mr. Kaplan was in the prime of life being only
thirty-eight years old at the time of his untimely death. His business
prospects were the brightest. He was president and manager of the
Ouachita Furniture Company, Limited, a comparatively new concern, but
which under his management has been a big success. Mr. Kaplan also
owned considerable property. It has been said of him that in
proportion to his means he had done more to build up the town than any
other man in it.
Mr. Kaplan was born at Chernabele, Russia, where his mother now lives.
His father died thirty years ago and his oldest brother died only
about two months ago in Chicago. Mr. Kaplan is survived by his wife
who was Miss Esther Kohn, three bright little children, Lizzie,
Freddie and Sara Etta; his mother, two brothers, Mr. Sam Kaplan of
this city and Mr. Max Kaplan of Baxtrop, and one sister, Mrs. Derriah
Kusin. The funeral will take place Sunday morning at 10 o'clock at the
residence of North Fourth street proceeding from there to the Jewish
cemetery. The services will be conducted by Dr. Heinberg, Monroe Lodge
No. 454 B.P.O. Elks of which Mr. Kaplan was a member, will attend the
funeral in a body. The members are requested to meet at the lodge hall
at 9 o'clock.
This is interesting in itself, especially in my simple opinion, for
the respect with which he is treated, although that was probably
standard when the Klan or its ilk was not around, but when I looked at
the map, I see that it is not so far from Lake Providence, Louisiana
where my cousin, 50, maybe 70, years older than I, lived. I think he
was too old to come and visit like he used to. Lake Providence is
right on the Mississippi. In fact the crescent-shaped lake itself is
plainly an old part of the Mississippi River, left mostly land-locked
when the river moved. He owned the general store, and gave my
parents beutiful silver candle shades when they married, and on my car
trip to Dallas a couple years ago, I had hoped to go there and see
what I could find. First I had looked online for a Jewish cemetery
near Lake Providence, but I found none anywhere near by. The closest
was New Orleans, quite far. Now I see that there was one in Monroe,
75 miles away. I may call there and find out who knows about such
things and call him.
Also, the paper, the Monroe News-Star, is still in business and has a
pretty extensive webpage.
Harry Weiss
> Itzhak Schier wrote:
> > On Dec 15, 11:52 pm, Amitai <chr0...@techunix.technion.ac.il> wrote:
> >> On Dec 15, 8:26 pm, "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivo...@interxnl.net> wrote:> mm wrote on 15 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
> >>
> >>>> Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
> >>> "The vulgar crowd commit a deadly sin in calling the sacred shrine simply
> >>> "chest" (Shab. 32a).
> >>> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=A&artid=1778
> >>> --
> >> The Soncino translation is:
> >> "On account of two sins 'amme ha-arez die: because they call the holy
> >> ark a chest, and because they call a synagogue beth-'am."
> >
> > BS"D
> >
> > There is a conservative house of worship in NJ called "Beth Am".
> There are many synagogues known as "Beth Am".
There is one in LA, as well, It used to be known as the Monty Hall shull
> --
> Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
> (email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
> NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
> GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Don Levey
> Don Levey <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote:
>> Itzhak Schier wrote:
>>> On Dec 15, 11:52 pm, Amitai <chr0...@techunix.technion.ac.il> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 15, 8:26 pm, "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivo...@interxnl.net> wrote:> mm wrote on 15 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>>>>
>>>>>> Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
>>>>> "The vulgar crowd commit a deadly sin in calling the sacred shrine simply
>>>>> "chest" (Shab. 32a).
>>>>> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=A&artid=1778
>>>>> --
>>>> The Soncino translation is:
>>>> "On account of two sins 'amme ha-arez die: because they call the holy
>>>> ark a chest, and because they call a synagogue beth-'am."
>>> BS"D
>>>
>>> There is a conservative house of worship in NJ called "Beth Am".
>
>> There are many synagogues known as "Beth Am".
>
> There is one in LA, as well, It used to be known as the Monty Hall shull
>
Harry Weiss
> Harry Weiss wrote:
> > Don Levey <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote:
> >> Itzhak Schier wrote:
> >>> On Dec 15, 11:52 pm, Amitai <chr0...@techunix.technion.ac.il> wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 15, 8:26 pm, "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivo...@interxnl.net> wrote:> mm wrote on 15 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Do you think an ark is a "Torah shrine"?
> >>>>> "The vulgar crowd commit a deadly sin in calling the sacred shrine simply
> >>>>> "chest" (Shab. 32a).
> >>>>> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=A&artid=1778
> >>>>> --
> >>>> The Soncino translation is:
> >>>> "On account of two sins 'amme ha-arez die: because they call the holy
> >>>> ark a chest, and because they call a synagogue beth-'am."
> >>> BS"D
> >>>
> >>> There is a conservative house of worship in NJ called "Beth Am".
> >
> >> There are many synagogues known as "Beth Am".
> >
> > There is one in LA, as well, It used to be known as the Monty Hall shull
> >
> Is that where he went?
Yes and was the biggest giver.
> --
> Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
> (email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
> NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
> GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc