Chief Rabbis in Israel Oppose "Abortion Epidemic"

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Dennis

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Dec 29, 2010, 10:49:48 PM12/29/10
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Posted on another ng by a dubious person. LifeNews is an anti-abortion
news site.

http://www.lifenews.com/2010/12/28/top-jewish-rabbis-in-israel-oppose-
abortion-epidemic/

Chief Rabbis in Israel Oppose “Abortion Epidemic”

by Steven Ertelt | LifeNews.com | 12/28/10 1:26 PM

Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar, the chief rabbis in Israel, are calling on
Israeli residents to fight the “abortion epidemic” they say is ravaging the
country.

The two Jewish leaders sent a letter to all rabbis across the country,
according to a CBN News report, citing a portion of the Torah from Exodus
that relates the story of Hebrew midwives refusing an edict from Pharaoh to
drown newborn children by throwing them in the Nile River.

Jews point to the teachings in the first chapter of the book of Exodus when
Hebrew midwives Pu’ah and Shifra refuse to listen to the King of Egypt’s
order to kill all male babies. “But the midwives feared God and did not as
the king of Egypt commanded,” the scriptures say.

The pair called on religious teachers to inform citizens of Israel that
“biblical prohibition to kill fetuses in their mothers’ wombs.”

They recalled their effort to form a committee to combat the approximately
50,000 abortions that take place in Israel annually and said Jewish law
prohibits abortions except in the very rare circumstances of a pregnancy
directly threatening the life of the mother.

“The Chief Rabbinate of Israel is appalled by this horrifying data,
indicating that this is a true epidemic costing the lives of dozens of
Jewish souls every year,” the chief rabbis wrote, according to CBN.

Last year, Metzger and Amar said that abortion kills thousands of Israeli
babies a year and delays the coming of the Messiah and they promised to do
more to promote pro-life and pregnancy help efforts. They said “the vast
majority of abortions are unnecessary and Halacha severely prohibits them.”

They Jewish leaders also said abortions “delay the redemption” by
postponing the coming of the Messiah and they based the teaching on the
Babylonian Talmud in Tractate Niddah which says each baby that is born
brings the Jewish people closer to redemption.

“The redemption does not take place until all the souls are brought out of
their storing place,” the Talmud states.

The letter goes on to condemn “the killing of fetuses in their mother’s
womb.”

In December 2007, the chief rabbinic council in Israel released a new
opinion confirming that abortions constitute a “grave sin” and saying they
are delaying the coming of the Messiah.

“The vast majority of abortions are unnecessary and strictly forbidden
according to halacha because they are carried out even when the pregnancies
do not endanger the mother’s health,” the rabbis wrote.

They said those kinds of abortions for socioeconomic reasons or the mother
not wanting the baby at the time are delaying the coming of the Messiah,
who Jews believe was not represented by Jesus Christ.

Rabbi Barry Freundel, a widely respected Jewish leader in the U.S., says,
according to the Mishnah, a record of oral interpretations of the Hebrew
Scriptures, abortion is only permitted when a woman is in “hard travail”
and her life is in danger.

He said the instances where a pregnancy poses a serious threat to the
mother are very rare — so Jews should oppose most abortions.

Not even in the most lenient interpretations, Rabbi Freundel told a group
at a National Right to Life convention, is there anything that allows
abortion on demand.

Before Congress gave final approval to the first partial-birth abortion
ban, he obtained more than 200 signatures of rabbis from Reform,
Conservative, and Orthodox traditions on a statement supporting the pro-
life bill.

In 2008, the oldest Orthodox Jewish Rabbinic organization in the country,
the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the U.S. and Canada, issued a historic
declaration on voting and abortion. It said Jewish voters should not vote
for candidates who support abortion, calling them “antithetical” to Jewish
values.

Herman Rubin

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Dec 30, 2010, 10:52:41 AM12/30/10
to
On 2010-12-30, Dennis <tsalagi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Posted on another ng by a dubious person. LifeNews is an anti-abortion
> news site.

> http://www.lifenews.com/2010/12/28/top-jewish-rabbis-in-israel-oppose-
> abortion-epidemic/

> Chief Rabbis in Israel Oppose “Abortion Epidemic”

> by Steven Ertelt | LifeNews.com | 12/28/10 1:26 PM

> Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar, the chief rabbis in Israel, are calling on
> Israeli residents to fight the “abortion epidemic” they say is ravaging the
> country.

I am not saying whether there are too many abortions or not.

In ancient times, the Greeks and Romans practiced infanticide
to keep their populations in check, and criticized the Jews
for not doing so. The result was that the Jews spread.

The first commandment to man in the Torah reads, in translation:

Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill haaretz, and have mastery over it, ...

The "and" is limiting, we cannot multiply indefinitely,
and alas, haaretz, or at least the part we can use, is
now overfilled. Overpopulation is a MAJOR problem at
this time; I do not approve of the Chinese totalitarian
action, as I am opposed to governments or religious
characters telling people what to do, but rather I think
a free will method, based on capitalism, is needed.

> The two Jewish leaders sent a letter to all rabbis across the country,
> according to a CBN News report, citing a portion of the Torah from Exodus
> that relates the story of Hebrew midwives refusing an edict from Pharaoh to
> drown newborn children by throwing them in the Nile River.

It was to drown the males, with the idea of eliminating the
Jewish people. Those having abortions are not trying to
eliminate Jews, just to limit the number.

> Jews point to the teachings in the first chapter of the book of Exodus when
> Hebrew midwives Pu’ah and Shifra refuse to listen to the King of Egypt’s
> order to kill all male babies. “But the midwives feared God and did not as
> the king of Egypt commanded,” the scriptures say.

> The pair called on religious teachers to inform citizens of Israel that
> “biblical prohibition to kill fetuses in their mothers’ wombs.”

This is not mentioned in the Bible.

> They recalled their effort to form a committee to combat the approximately
> 50,000 abortions that take place in Israel annually and said Jewish law
> prohibits abortions except in the very rare circumstances of a pregnancy
> directly threatening the life of the mother.

This is Talmudic law, not Jewish law.

[Talmudic philosophical inventions deleted.]

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

Giorgies E Kepipesiom

unread,
Dec 30, 2010, 1:45:56 PM12/30/10
to
On Dec 30, 10:52 am, Herman Rubin <hru...@skew.stat.purdue.edu> wrote:
>
> The first commandment to man in the Torah reads, in translation:
>
> Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill haaretz, and have mastery over it, ...
>
> The "and" is limiting, we cannot multiply indefinitely,
> and alas, haaretz, or at least the part we can use, is
> now overfilled.  Overpopulation is a MAJOR problem at
> this time;

Ah yes! Overpopulation of Jews is a major problem. Too many Jews in
the world? Too many jews in Palestine? I know of some people who agree
with you.

GEK

Dennis

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Dec 30, 2010, 5:29:27 PM12/30/10
to
Herman Rubin wrote:

> I am not saying whether there are too many abortions or not.
>
> In ancient times, the Greeks and Romans practiced infanticide
> to keep their populations in check, and criticized the Jews
> for not doing so. The result was that the Jews spread.
>
> The first commandment to man in the Torah reads, in translation:
>
> Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill haaretz, and have mastery over it,
> ...
>
> The "and" is limiting, we cannot multiply indefinitely,
> and alas, haaretz, or at least the part we can use, is
> now overfilled. Overpopulation is a MAJOR problem at
> this time;

Indeed. A long time ago, a Jewish friend said, "The Catholics have it all
wrong! The Scripture says, 'Be fruitful, multiply, and *replenish* the
earth', *not* reproduce until you consume it all!"

> I do not approve of the Chinese totalitarian
> action, as I am opposed to governments or religious
> characters telling people what to do, but rather I think
> a free will method, based on capitalism, is needed.

I agree. Educating women and giving them access to family planning
resources, as well as *sustainable* economic development, are proven
methods.

Dennis

Micha Berger

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Dec 30, 2010, 6:10:20 PM12/30/10
to
Dennis <tsalagi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Indeed. A long time ago, a Jewish friend said, "The Catholics have it all
> wrong! The Scripture says, 'Be fruitful, multiply, and *replenish* the
> earth', *not* reproduce until you consume it all!"

Actually, it's "fill the aretz, and conquer her". Aretz is the word in
contrast to shamayim, which in turn could mean sky, space, or spiritual
heaven. Really it could mean we should fill and conquer the country,
region, planet, biosphere up the the clouds (the "water which is on the
shamayim" of day 2, according to many opinions), or spacetime.

But not "replenish".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

--
Micha Berger One doesn't learn mussar to be a tzaddik,
mi...@aishdas.org but to become a tzaddik.
http://www.aishdas.org - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

Dennis

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Dec 30, 2010, 10:24:08 PM12/30/10
to
Micha Berger wrote:

> Dennis <tsalagi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Indeed. A long time ago, a Jewish friend said, "The Catholics have
>> it all wrong! The Scripture says, 'Be fruitful, multiply, and
>> *replenish* the earth', *not* reproduce until you consume it all!"
>
> Actually, it's "fill the aretz, and conquer her". Aretz is the word in
> contrast to shamayim, which in turn could mean sky, space, or
> spiritual heaven. Really it could mean we should fill and conquer the
> country, region, planet, biosphere up the the clouds (the "water which
> is on the shamayim" of day 2, according to many opinions), or
> spacetime.
>
> But not "replenish".

OK. We were quoting the KJV, which was often mistaken. Would the artetz
include outer space? If so, this would include our conquest of outer
space.

Dennis

Herman Rubin

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Jan 2, 2011, 10:11:52 AM1/2/11
to
On 2010-12-30, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> Dennis <tsalagi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Indeed. A long time ago, a Jewish friend said, "The Catholics have it all
>> wrong! The Scripture says, 'Be fruitful, multiply, and *replenish* the
>> earth', *not* reproduce until you consume it all!"

> Actually, it's "fill the aretz, and conquer her". Aretz is the word in
> contrast to shamayim, which in turn could mean sky, space, or spiritual
> heaven. Really it could mean we should fill and conquer the country,
> region, planet, biosphere up the the clouds (the "water which is on the
> shamayim" of day 2, according to many opinions), or spacetime.

What is eretz, and what is shemayim? If one tries to read
Genesis according to the Big Bang theory, one can manage
the first two days, and a small part of the rest. However,
eretz gets other meanings (it clearly has two in the
standard approach}. The best I have been able to come
up with is that eretz can refer to any dommain. Accordingly,
I read the first clause as

In the beginning, God created the physical
universe and heaven.

The barrier separating haaretz and hashemayim is
the lightspeed boundary; to penetrate this
one would have to exceed the speed of light, or
use some supernormal means. We cannot, but
presumably God can.

> But not "replenish".

> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha

--

Herman Rubin

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Jan 2, 2011, 10:17:36 AM1/2/11
to

>> But not "replenish".

There are many who have claimed that this commandment
requires us to spread out and live anywhere we can.
IMO, this requires us to spread out in the solar system,
at least. We probably can find a way to at least have
outposts on the Moon and on Mars, and I believe we can
live IN asteroids and the Moon. The big problems are
the shortage of hydrogen and nitrogen. I believe there
are solutions to these problems.

> Dennis

Yisroel Markov

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Jan 4, 2011, 7:00:16 PM1/4/11
to
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:29:27 +0000 (UTC), Dennis
<tsalagi...@hotmail.com> said:

>Herman Rubin wrote:
>
>> I am not saying whether there are too many abortions or not.
>>
>> In ancient times, the Greeks and Romans practiced infanticide
>> to keep their populations in check, and criticized the Jews
>> for not doing so. The result was that the Jews spread.
>>
>> The first commandment to man in the Torah reads, in translation:
>>
>> Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill haaretz, and have mastery over it,
>> ...
>>
>> The "and" is limiting, we cannot multiply indefinitely,
>> and alas, haaretz, or at least the part we can use, is
>> now overfilled. Overpopulation is a MAJOR problem at
>> this time;
>
>Indeed. A long time ago, a Jewish friend said, "The Catholics have it all
>wrong! The Scripture says, 'Be fruitful, multiply, and *replenish* the
>earth', *not* reproduce until you consume it all!"

It actually says "fill the earth." But opinions may, and do, differ as
to when it can be considered full. I see the Earth as capable of
supporting up to ten billion humans (perhaps more with more
technological advances), and not in Africa-style poverty, either. In
any event, our population is very unlikely to ever get that large.

>> I do not approve of the Chinese totalitarian
>> action, as I am opposed to governments or religious
>> characters telling people what to do, but rather I think
>> a free will method, based on capitalism, is needed.
>
>I agree. Educating women and giving them access to family planning
>resources, as well as *sustainable* economic development, are proven
>methods.

Yes. Which means that it behooves neo-Malthusians to advocate free
trade, low and predictable taxation, anti-corruption measures, and
other factors that contribute to economic growth in the Third World.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

sheldonlg

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Jan 6, 2011, 10:10:45 AM1/6/11
to
On 1/4/2011 7:00 PM, Yisroel Markov wrote:
>
> It actually says "fill the earth." But opinions may, and do, differ as
> to when it can be considered full. I see the Earth as capable of
> supporting up to ten billion humans (perhaps more with more
> technological advances), and not in Africa-style poverty, either. In
> any event, our population is very unlikely to ever get that large.

What reason do you have for saying that when we are already approaching
seven billion?

--
Shelly

Herman Rubin

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Jan 6, 2011, 7:40:19 PM1/6/11
to

This planet may eventually be able to support ten billion
reasonably well, but we cannot support seven billion now.
I would put the capability to support people at a reasonable
level now as about three billion. The US is overpopulated.

Dennis

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Jan 6, 2011, 11:54:27 PM1/6/11
to
Herman Rubin wrote:

> On 2011-01-06, sheldonlg <shel...@thevillages.net> wrote:
>> On 1/4/2011 7:00 PM, Yisroel Markov wrote:
>
>>> It actually says "fill the earth." But opinions may, and do, differ
>>> as to when it can be considered full. I see the Earth as capable of
>>> supporting up to ten billion humans (perhaps more with more
>>> technological advances), and not in Africa-style poverty, either. In
>>> any event, our population is very unlikely to ever get that large.
>
>> What reason do you have for saying that when we are already
>> approaching seven billion?
>
> This planet may eventually be able to support ten billion
> reasonably well, but we cannot support seven billion now.
> I would put the capability to support people at a reasonable
> level now as about three billion. The US is overpopulated.

??? The US is overpopulated only for our level of consumption!!! Not
for food production or confinement.

If you can believe the current issue of National Geographic, we already
*are* at 7 billion.

I used to hear that the human race would level off at 10-12 billion.
I've recently heard that it might be less, 9 billion. My major concern
is with what happens when all those people consume like Western Europe,
let alone the USA. I'd *really* worry abouth global climate change
then!

The Georgia Guidestones recommend maintaining mankind at 1/2 billion
permanently. YMMV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

Dennis

Yisroel Markov

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Jan 9, 2011, 1:12:35 PM1/9/11
to
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 00:40:19 +0000 (UTC), Herman Rubin
<hru...@skew.stat.purdue.edu> said:

>On 2011-01-06, sheldonlg <shel...@thevillages.net> wrote:
>> On 1/4/2011 7:00 PM, Yisroel Markov wrote:
>
>>> It actually says "fill the earth." But opinions may, and do, differ as
>>> to when it can be considered full. I see the Earth as capable of
>>> supporting up to ten billion humans (perhaps more with more
>>> technological advances), and not in Africa-style poverty, either. In
>>> any event, our population is very unlikely to ever get that large.
>
>> What reason do you have for saying that when we are already approaching
>> seven billion?

The reason is that growth trends are most certainly not static. The
UN's "pessimistic" projection has the human population topping out at
10+ billion and then declining. The mid-point projection is for nine
billion and then declining.

>This planet may eventually be able to support ten billion
>reasonably well, but we cannot support seven billion now.

But we already are. Many of those live in poverty, but I still suspect
that they'd rather exist than not. And tremendous progress has been
made over the past thirty years at getting people out of poverty.

An important book by Roger Thurow and Scott Kilman has been published
recently, entitled "Enough: Why the World's Poorest Starve in an Age
of Plenty." The blurb says, incisively: "Hunger: we cause it. We can
end it." The book documents the observation that most hunger is due to
political, rather than natural, reasons.

>I would put the capability to support people at a reasonable
>level now as about three billion. The US is overpopulated.

Really? Doesn't feel that way to me. I live in Boston, population
(including metro area) 1.2 million. I was born and raised in a city
(Petersburg, Russia) that housed 4 million on less territory. Even New
York doesn't feel overpopulated to me. And we're doing an increasingly
better job (with the exception of boondogles such as ethanol) of
husbanding existing resources. So how do you figure we're
overpopulated? And what's "reasonable?"

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