Metal Boxes on Graves
Stew Driller
by what seemed to be an Orthodox section -- large dark stones,
entirely in Hebrew. Many of the graves had metal boxes on
them, approximately one foot in size. One was open in front
and seemed to have stacked "disks" inside.
Does anyone know what these are for.
Thanks,
Stew Driller
NYC
Jonathan J. Baker
They're the hard-disks where we store the deceased's memories.
The Vulcans have banks for katras, we just keep them by the
graveside in case someone happens to detonate a Genesis Device
and resurrection becomes reality.
For some people, the technology is kinda old, so they still
used 8" diameter disks.
--
Jonathan Baker | Ksivechsimetoiveh!
jjb...@panix.com | (It's a contraction, like Shkoiech, or Brshmo)
Webpage: <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/>
toichen
The boxes are designed to hold candles that are lit in memory of the
dead. The disks you saw were probably burnt out candle holders.
As an aside, seeing what you did whilst driving would indicate amazing
eyesight. Have you considered that you might be a beneficial mutation?
toichen
Henry Goodman
"toichen" <toi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:dd1c0ee8.02092...@posting.google.com...
This minhag appeared in the UK about 10 years ago and there are lots of
these tin cans at the Adath cemetery at Enfield (but not the Cheshunt one).
I think they are very ugly and make the cemetery look like a rubbish dump.
Another innovation is to cover tombstones with a thick plastic transparent
cover. I suppose it adds decades to the tombstone's life but again very
ugly.
Does anybody else think these fashions are ugly and undignified.
Shabbat Shalom & Chag sameach
--
Henry Goodman
henry....@virgin.net
Jonathan J. Baker
>"toichen" <toi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> > entirely in Hebrew. Many of the graves had metal boxes on
>> > them, approximately one foot in size. One was open in front
>> > and seemed to have stacked "disks" inside.
>> The boxes are designed to hold candles that are lit in memory of the
>> dead. The disks you saw were probably burnt out candle holders.
>This minhag appeared in the UK about 10 years ago and there are lots of
>these tin cans at the Adath cemetery at Enfield (but not the Cheshunt one).
>I think they are very ugly and make the cemetery look like a rubbish dump.
>Another innovation is to cover tombstones with a thick plastic transparent
>cover. I suppose it adds decades to the tombstone's life but again very
>ugly.
>Does anybody else think these fashions are ugly and undignified.
Yes. Actually: what stone do they use for making the gravestones?
Here, in this century, it's almost entirely granite, which is very
hard and won't lose its lettering for centuries. Older gravestones
in this country are made of slate and/or sandstone, which wear away
over time.
There was a fashion, at one time, to put enameled photographs of
the deceased on the gravestone. I see this in the cemetery in KGH
where my mother-in-law's parents are buried. I don't think they
allowed this in the cemeteries where my grandparents are buried.
Micha Berger
: Last week I was at Mt. Zion Cemetery in Queens, NY and drove
: by what seemed to be an Orthodox section -- large dark stones,
Probably a large area bought by a group. Many organizations (such as
immigrant benevolence organizations for people who came to the US from
the same area) or synagogues used to include burial space as a membership
benefit. We don't divide cemetaries along O/C/R lines.
: Many of the graves had metal boxes on
: them, approximately one foot in size. One was open in front
: and seemed to have stacked "disks" inside.
I presume you were stuck at a light.
I've never seen this at that particular cemetary, but it's a big place.
: Does anyone know what these are for.
That's already been answered by others (not Jon, though).
-mi
--
Micha Berger A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
mi...@aishdas.org It preserves health, promotes convalescence,
http://www.aishdas.org and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (413) 403-9905 - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"
Joshua L. Segal
Israel. The side-problem of littering mentioned by another poster is a
real esthetic issue: the greater the macher, the greater the litter.
What a way to be remembered :-(
I have also seen what appear to be tsedakka boxes on some gravestones,
but I am not aware of any formal system to collect it and ultimately
deliver the tsedaka to someone who can use it!
Joshua Segal
Henry Goodman
"Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:amf7gg$pub$1...@reader2.panix.com...
They are either marble or granite. The stone may last for centuries (though
in my experience those over 100 years old are quite difficult to read) but
the lettering is made of metal (usually) painted black. the paint often has
to be renewed after as little as 30 years.
--
Henry Goodman
henry....@virgin.net
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>ROTFL! Thanks for demonstrating the delightful perils of mixing Judaism and
>fandom.
Scoop, I find nothing funny when a silly answer is given to a serious
question.
Jonathan J. Baker
>Quoth Sheldon Ackerman:
>I can respect that, and so I will.
I just didn't know, but figured obvious humor is generally welcome
in the midst of our oh-so-deadly-serious arguments. Unobvious humor,
which might actually give the wrong impression that it *is* a real
answer, is something else.
R
In Eretz Yisrael I have seen beautiful candle-holding devices,
often built-in as part of the monument. here in America, these
aluminum boxes are all that you can get. They are ugly. My
prdiction is that the first person who invents something really
nice that affixes permanently to the monument (so that it won't
be stolen) and is approved by the cemetery owners (so they won't
remove it) will make a fortune.
R
In Montefiore Cemetery the rules specifically forbid such
photographs. And when we signed the purchase contract for my
father's (a"h) grave, we were given a copy of the rules, and had
to sign that we had read the rules. Nonetheless, I have seen a
few headstones there that do have such photographs.
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Jonathan J. Baker" wrote:
>> There was a fashion, at one time, to put enameled photographs of
>> the deceased on the gravestone. I see this in the cemetery in KGH
>> where my mother-in-law's parents are buried. I don't think they
>> allowed this in the cemeteries where my grandparents are buried.
>In Montefiore Cemetery the rules specifically forbid such
>photographs. And when we signed the purchase contract for my
Well, that's it then. My mother's family is in Old Montefiore,
in the Brooklyn Jewish Center area (most of the northern third of
the cemetery), and my father's family is in New Montefiore.
I haven't seen it in Beth Israel (the one near the Woodbridge Mall),
or in Floral Park where my f-i-l is (his yahrzeit is Simchas Torah).
Z
Goodman <henry....@virgin.net> writes
>> There was a fashion, at one time, to put enameled photographs of
>> the deceased on the gravestone. I see this in the cemetery in KGH
>> where my mother-in-law's parents are buried. I don't think they
>> allowed this in the cemeteries where my grandparents are buried.
>>
>
>They are either marble or granite. The stone may last for centuries (though
>in my experience those over 100 years old are quite difficult to read) but
>the lettering is made of metal (usually) painted black. the paint often has
>to be renewed after as little as 30 years.
>
>
>--
>Henry Goodman
>henry....@virgin.net
This is the custom in Poland with non Jews. I was going to the
hypermarket in Torun which went past a graveyard (the cemeteries are
very well kept there). I noticed there was a stone there with a
photograph and Od: (from:) <some date> Do: (to:) < blank> . They buy
their plot and sometimes erect the stone before they are dead.
Creepy.
The photographs look tacky if there are only a few but if a major
section of the graveyard is done like that it is not so un-dignified
looking.
Would there be any halachic problem in having photographs on tombstones?
Not that I was considering this or am I even bothered where I am buried
- a black bag in the back garden would do me fine.
--
Z
Remove Zeds in e-mail address to reply.
Eliyahu
> Yes. Actually: what stone do they use for making the gravestones?
> Here, in this century, it's almost entirely granite, which is very
> hard and won't lose its lettering for centuries. Older gravestones
> in this country are made of slate and/or sandstone, which wear away
> over time.
>
A few years ago, I did some carpentry for the owner of a monument company.
(Grave stones and other stone signs and monuments). I asked him about the
different materials used for the markers, and he told me that while some
people still like the look of marble, it can erode as much as a tenth of an
inch per year in an area with acid rain and heavy pollution. Granite, OTOH,
will only lose a hundredth of an inch per year even in the worst conditions,
and erodes about a tenth of that in normal conditions.
eliyahu
Jonathan J. Baker
>very well kept there). I noticed there was a stone there with a
>photograph and Od: (from:) <some date> Do: (to:) < blank> . They buy
>their plot and sometimes erect the stone before they are dead.
>Creepy.
I've seen that in Jewish cemeteries here. A man dies, they want a
double headstone, they put up the double headstone, including all the
wife's info except date of death. It is creepy.
Jonathan J. Baker
>A few years ago, I did some carpentry for the owner of a monument company.
>(Grave stones and other stone signs and monuments). I asked him about the
>different materials used for the markers, and he told me that while some
>people still like the look of marble, it can erode as much as a tenth of an
>inch per year in an area with acid rain and heavy pollution. Granite, OTOH,
>will only lose a hundredth of an inch per year even in the worst conditions,
>and erodes about a tenth of that in normal conditions.
Yup. There's a lot of corroded marble on the exterior of the shul in Park
Slope, which was built in 1913. It looks terrible, and the only way to
fix it seems to be replacement.
Eliyahu
> In <.uk> Z <po...@imaZZZZris.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> >very well kept there). I noticed there was a stone there with a
> >photograph and Od: (from:) <some date> Do: (to:) < blank> . They buy
> >their plot and sometimes erect the stone before they are dead.
> >Creepy.
>
> I've seen that in Jewish cemeteries here. A man dies, they want a
> double headstone, they put up the double headstone, including all the
> wife's info except date of death. It is creepy.
>
sure why it's "creepy." No worse than purchasing a grave site while you're
healthy, and both are just a way of planning in advance for something that
will happen to each and every one of us. While I realize that the tradition
in most places is that we don't erect the marker during the first year,
nothing says you can't have it ready before you need it. It also reduces the
pressure on family members to splurge on something bigger than they can
really afford at a time when they're particularly vulnerable to sales
pressure.
Eliyahu
Henry Goodman
"Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:amptok$bau$2...@reader1.panix.com...
> In <.uk> Z <po...@imaZZZZris.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> >very well kept there). I noticed there was a stone there with a
> >photograph and Od: (from:) <some date> Do: (to:) < blank> . They buy
> >their plot and sometimes erect the stone before they are dead.
> >Creepy.
>
> I've seen that in Jewish cemeteries here. A man dies, they want a
> double headstone, they put up the double headstone, including all the
> wife's info except date of death. It is creepy.
>
> --
What happens if she remarries?
--
Henry Goodman
henry....@virgin.net
Tim Meushaw
>I've seen that in Jewish cemeteries here. A man dies, they want a
>double headstone, they put up the double headstone, including all the
>wife's info except date of death. It is creepy.
I saw this custom on a personal level when I was maybe 10 years old or
so. My father took me to the cemetary to visit some of the sites of
family members. There was one stone that served for 4 people in our
family, two in the front and two in the back. On the front were
engraved my great-grandparents names, including both dates for my
great-grandfather who died before I was born. My great-grandmother's
info was only the birth date, since she was still alive at the time.
At that point, my father mentioned, seemingly out of the blue, that
he doesn't go to the other side of the stone, ever. Wandering back,
I noticed that the other two sites were reserved for my grandparents,
his parents, both with just the birth dates filled in. I can certainly
see why it would creep him out to go back there prematurely....
Tim
--
Timothy A. Meushaw
meu...@pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~meushaw/
.
Warren Burstein
> "Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:amptok$bau$2...@reader1.panix.com...
> > In <.uk> Z <po...@imaZZZZris.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > >very well kept there). I noticed there was a stone there with a
> > >photograph and Od: (from:) <some date> Do: (to:) < blank> . They buy
> > >their plot and sometimes erect the stone before they are dead.
> > >Creepy.
> >
> > I've seen that in Jewish cemeteries here. A man dies, they want a
> > double headstone, they put up the double headstone, including all the
> > wife's info except date of death. It is creepy.
> >
> Since it's often the surviving spouse who selects the headstone, I'm not
> sure why it's "creepy." No worse than purchasing a grave site while you're
> healthy, and both are just a way of planning in advance for something that
> will happen to each and every one of us.
I would just as soon leave the survivor's name off until it's needed.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> "Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message
snip
>> Yes. Actually: what stone do they use for making the gravestones?
>> Here, in this century, it's almost entirely granite, which is very
>> hard and won't lose its lettering for centuries. Older gravestones
>> in this country are made of slate and/or sandstone, which wear away
>> over time.
>>
>> There was a fashion, at one time, to put enameled photographs of
>> the deceased on the gravestone. I see this in the cemetery in KGH
>> where my mother-in-law's parents are buried. I don't think they
>> allowed this in the cemeteries where my grandparents are buried.
>
> They are either marble or granite. The stone may last for centuries
> (though in my experience those over 100 years old are quite difficult
> to read) but the lettering is made of metal (usually) painted black.
> the paint often has to be renewed after as little as 30 years.
The latest method is to fill in the etched out lettering with some
kind of metal. That seems to be pretty long-lasting.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Scoop wrote:
>
>>ROTFL! Thanks for demonstrating the delightful perils of mixing
>>Judaism and fandom.
>
> Scoop, I find nothing funny when a silly answer is given to a
> serious question.
And I find nothing understandable when all the context has been
removed.
It seems an alll-or-nothing situation. Either leave _every_ blessed
line in, (and they get longer and longer with the added ">"s) or
snip _everything_. Can't we take the time to snip but leave in the
context?
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Quoth mos...@mm.huji.ac.il:
> : acke...@amanda.dorsai.org (Sheldon Ackerman) writes:
> :> Scoop wrote:
> :>
> :>>ROTFL! Thanks for demonstrating the delightful perils of mixing
> :>>Judaism and fandom.
> :>
> :> Scoop, I find nothing funny when a silly answer is given to a
> :> serious question.
> :
> : And I find nothing understandable when all the context has been
> : removed.
>
Neal, I like you every day. But I can complain about things I find
difficult.
bydm9t...@gmail.com
Shelly
> Where can I get 1 of these boxes to put on my mother's matzeiva (grave)?
Jewish grave other than a headstone and/or small stones left by visitors.
--
Shelly
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but what are they? I have never seen anything on a
> Jewish grave other than a headstone and/or small stones left by visitors.
Only some families and communities have this custom of lighting candles at the graves of ordinary people. But at graves of ancient prophets and sages, and certain rebbis, that are visited by multitudes, you will find large receptacles, or even a whole room, for candle lighting. Here in New York I have seen such at the mausoleum of the Rebbis Schneersonhn: the graves are surrounded by a tywo-room structure, the outer room being exclusively for candles.
Gershon Eliyahu
wishing everyone a finish of good sealing
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
> Where can I get 1 of these boxes to put on my mother's matzeiva (grave)?
GEK
Shelly
--
Shelly
mm
>Where can I get 1 of these boxes to put on my mother's matzeiva (grave)?
I think the grave is a kever, as in kever Rochel.
I forget what the inscription is called. ?????
I haven't seen a metal box for this purpose, but Giorgies's answer seems
good. (Many, most, all? (I forget) of the stone boxes above graves
(what are they called in Hebrew? or in English for that matter?) on
the Mount of Olives, for example, have places shielded from the wind for
lighting candles. but I don't remember seeing anytihng in metal. I've
been to a lot of Jewish cemeteries, including several in Israel and 26
out of the 27 in Baltimore. )
May G-d comfort you on the loss of your mother.
--
Meir
Turlough
<kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, September 29, 2014 3:42:45 PM UTC-4, shel...@thevillages.net wrote:
>>
>> Pardon my ignorance, but what are they? I have never seen anything on a
>> Jewish grave other than a headstone and/or small stones left by visitors.
>
>Some Orthodox families or communities have a custom to light candles at a grave when visiting. If you light a bare candle outdoors, it will blow out very quickly. And before it does so, it will drip wax over the grave (candle wax is one of the few substances that will badly stain a polished granite headsotone). So many have boxes made of sheet metal, with metal stakes attached to the bottom, and driven into the ground either over the body of the grave
--
Francis Xavier Turlough
University of the Witwatersrand
Johannesburg
South Africa