Cost of kosher meat
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
In article <slrndjio1a....@newsgroups.comcast.net>, Ron Aaron <ronaaron@mike_row_soft.com> writes:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:36:28 +0000 (UTC), in...@rambam.biz <in...@rambam.biz>
> wrote:
>> Rubashkin and Empire costs almost exactly double by me. Doesn't cost
>> anywhere near twice as much to feed, shecht and bedika the animals.
>> It's a ripoff, and that's why most American Jews don't want to buy this
>> kosher meat. Maybe we should all learn to become shochets. Simcha
>
> You didn't respond to my previous rebuttal to your hyperventilation. Please
> read and respond point by point. Kosher meat is only a ripoff if you don't
> care about kashruth -- in which case, why the hell do you care how much it
> costs?
>
> The reason "most American Jews" don't want to buy this meat is because they
> couldn't care less about kashruth - not because of its price. Get real.
>
I'm no expert in econometrics and supply/demand curves, but my guess
is that if every American Jewish family purchased ONLY kosher meat,
the cost of kosher meat would plummet.
Josh
>
> --
> Reva Forth - http://ronware.org/reva/
Adelle
<bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:dhbv8k$1og$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
I thought that when demand is high, prices rise correspondingly. Especially
when it's a 'captive' market with less competition. There might be more
retail outlets, but the suppliers would still create the base from which
price is added onto by distributors and retailers.
Adelle
Ron Aaron
> I'm no expert in econometrics and supply/demand curves, but my guess
> is that if every American Jewish family purchased ONLY kosher meat,
> the cost of kosher meat would plummet.
Neither am I, but since there is a very limited supply of shoHtim (who, unlike
"butchers" require a very intense training - yet another factor in the "high
cost" equation) - I don't know how likely supply would rise to meet demand in
the short run. So probably in the short term the cost would go up; but then
I'm guessing it would drop. <caveat: I don't know nuthin' 'bout economics, my
wife is the monetary genius>
cindys
"Adelle" <adNOs...@SPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:GsOdnbJnEPV...@comcast.com...
That's only when the supply is low. But when high demand creates increased
supply to meet that demand, the prices drop.
>Especially
> when it's a 'captive' market with less competition.
Yes, but once there was more of demand, the natural outcome would be
additional competition, and then, rather than butcher shops closing, more
butcher shops would open).
>There might be more
> retail outlets, but the suppliers would still create the base from which
> price is added onto by distributors and retailers.
>
Ah, but maybe there would be new (additional) suppliers?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
in...@rambam.biz
One can certainly argue whether American Jews don't buy kosher
because they don't care about halachah, or because of the cost.
I suspect it's more of the latter, which we can argue without
resolution until Eliyahu ha'ba.
My bubbie Ethel, who was not extremely machmir, nevertheless bought a
pound of chopmeat from Herbie the kosher butcher. It was nowhere NEAR
twice the price. She could shmooze with Herbie, who was haimish,
"Hello, Mrs. Kaplan!"
My last foray to Stop and Shop in Ridgeway Center in Stamford showed
Empire chickens at $4 a lb. compared to $2 for Perdue. Rubashkin meat
was like $8, compared to $4 for treif. The kosher meat was, I'm not
making this up, between the pork and the veal.
And Haimishe Herbie was nowhere in sight.
I like Fiona's sheep comment. Guy goes to his Rabbi, "Oy, Rabbi,
I'm having an important guest next week, a frumme Yid, strictly
Torah observant! How can I make him feel at home?
"Build him a mizbeyach in the backyard and lay in a supply of
sheep". Simcha
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
Israel has a large supply of certified Shochtim and they could take up
any slack. But don't ask me: I got my MBA from the MAX BIALYSTOCK
School of Business Administration [tm] :-)
Josh
Fiona Abrahami
"cindys" <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote
> "Adelle" <adNOs...@SPAMcomcast.net> wrote
> > <bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote
> > > Ron Aaron <ronaaron@mike_row_soft.com> writes:
> > >> in...@rambam.biz <in...@rambam.biz> wrote:
> > >>> Rubashkin and Empire costs almost exactly double by me. Doesn't cost
> > >>> anywhere near twice as much to feed, shecht and bedika the animals.
> > >>> It's a ripoff, and that's why most American Jews don't want to buy
> > >>> this
> > >>> kosher meat. Maybe we should all learn to become shochets. Simcha
> > >>
> > >> You didn't respond to my previous rebuttal to your hyperventilation.
> > >> Please
> > >> read and respond point by point. Kosher meat is only a ripoff if you
> > >> don't
> > >> care about kashruth -- in which case, why the hell do you care how
much
> > >> it costs?
> > >>
> > >> The reason "most American Jews" don't want to buy this meat is
because
> > >> they couldn't care less about kashruth - not because of its price.
Get real.
> > >
> > > I'm no expert in econometrics and supply/demand curves, but my guess
> > > is that if every American Jewish family purchased ONLY kosher meat,
> > > the cost of kosher meat would plummet.
> >
> > I thought that when demand is high, prices rise correspondingly.
>
> That's only when the supply is low. But when high demand creates increased
> supply to meet that demand, the prices drop.
It's called Economy of Scale, the average cost per unit drops as the total
number of units produced increases. This is the economic foundation upon
which mass-production is built.
Fiona
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
Where's Jim Kahn when we need him ? :-) NU ???
Josh
>
> Adelle
>
>
Don Levey
>
>
> Where's Jim Kahn when we need him ? :-) NU ???
>
>
> Josh
>
Look up. He's about three messages above yours... :-)
--
Don Levey If knowledge is power,
Framingham, MA and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to sal...@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
Janet E Rosenbaum
A note on the cost of kosher meat: I just came back from Star Market in
Boston where I bought 17 pounds of chicken legs and some ground turkey
for $18. (All Aaron's, oddly.)
Large supermarkets can get leverage and charge very little for their
meat if they want to. The problem is that they can also mark up their
products a whole bunch if they want, and they know that people probably
won't go elsewhere.
Janet
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> A very clever conjecture, hats off, since no one can contradict this.
>
> One can certainly argue whether American Jews don't buy kosher
> because they don't care about halachah, or because of the cost.
>
> I suspect it's more of the latter, which we can argue without
> resolution until Eliyahu ha'ba.
>
> My bubbie Ethel, who was not extremely machmir, nevertheless bought a
> pound of chopmeat from Herbie the kosher butcher. It was nowhere NEAR
> twice the price. She could shmooze with Herbie, who was haimish,
> "Hello, Mrs. Kaplan!"
>
> My last foray to Stop and Shop in Ridgeway Center in Stamford showed
> Empire chickens at $4 a lb. compared to $2 for Perdue. Rubashkin meat
> was like $8, compared to $4 for treif. The kosher meat was, I'm not
> making this up, between the pork and the veal.
Use GOOGLE and shop online. You can buy kosher chicken for half the
cost above. I just checked a few sites.
In fact, the lower price is actually cheaper than that in Israel.
What is outrageous are the US prices for kosher beef (which are at least
two if not three times higher than comparable cost in Israel. The price
differential relates to fresh vs. frozen meat).
I saw the prices on a dozen websites and am flabbergasted. You are being
[how should I say this politely] royally screwed. The price for
kashered frozen Argentinian beef (FOB Argentina) is under $1 per pound.
Even with the shipping/distributing cost factored in, the wholesale price
for beef that needs long slow cooking couldn't be more than $1.50 per
pound. Even top of the line steaks wouldn't be more than $3/pound.
If you want to make a lot of money, import frozen kashered Argentinian
beef and sell online. The meat will have the hashgacha of the Israeli
Chief Rabbinate.
I know people who earned millions of dollars doing commodity arbitrage.
This one is a cinch.
All you need to do is check with the USDA re: importing Argentinian
beef and then check with shipping firms re: cost per ton for refrigerated
beef. You then outsource a refrigerated warehouse and outsource the
kosher butchers. Spend 2 hours on GOOGLE and you have a nice business.
Josh
James Kahn
>In article <GsOdnbJnEPV...@comcast.com>, "Adelle" <adNOs...@SPAMcomcast.net> writes:
>>
>> <bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>> news:dhbv8k$1og$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
>>>
>>> I'm no expert in econometrics and supply/demand curves, but my guess
>>> is that if every American Jewish family purchased ONLY kosher meat,
>>> the cost of kosher meat would plummet.
>>>
>>
>> I thought that when demand is high, prices rise correspondingly. Especially
>> when it's a 'captive' market with less competition. There might be more
>> retail outlets, but the suppliers would still create the base from which
>> price is added onto by distributors and retailers.
>Where's Jim Kahn when we need him ? :-) NU ???
Hey, you all were doing just fine without me.
Seriously, I would guess that more competition plus maybe some
scale economies in production would make it cheaper, at least in
communities with significant numbers of Jews. What would also happen
is that there would be more variety. Stuff that's really hard to
find in some places (lamb, for example) would be more available and
at reasonable prices. But in communities with only a few hundred
Jews or fewer, it would still be expensive. And prices would go up
at first until all those extra shochtim and mashgichim got up to
speed.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
cindys
"Ron Aaron" <ronaaron@mike_row_soft.com> wrote in message
news:slrndjj268....@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:24:36 +0000 (UTC), bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> <bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote:
> >
>
> > I'm no expert in econometrics and supply/demand curves, but my guess
> > is that if every American Jewish family purchased ONLY kosher meat,
> > the cost of kosher meat would plummet.
>
> Neither am I, but since there is a very limited supply of shoHtim (who,
unlike
> "butchers" require a very intense training - yet another factor in the
"high
> cost" equation)
I know one shochet who has gone to work in South America in order to support
his family. I know of a yeshiva rebbe who was thinking of taking the shochet
training so he would be able to earn a few extra dollars in the summer. The
same man told me that a popular "part-time job" for chassidishe bochurim in
New York is to earn extra money shechting chickens, and he went on to
describe the chicken shechting scenario in the streets of New York (I will
spare you the description). And in the old country, many people did their
own shechting. From what I've seen and heard, I would have guessed that it's
not difficult to train to be a shochet, and they are in abundance (or at
least not scarce). ??
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
devorah
which is usually not in a Jewish area. So the 'board' for the week
and come home for Shabbos. ( the father of a friend is a shochet)
This makes it a difficult job, not everyone wants an absent
husband/father.
In regard to chicken, I do think that there are more 'slaughterhouses'
and processing plants in the area. It's a messy, smelly job.
In the NY area kosher chicken is about 2.00 per pound (for a whole
chicken), ground and cutlets are about 5.00-6.00. I would think that
the price is more for other cities.
Devorah at Ari's
www.judaicatreasures.com
Jonathan K. Cohen
Trader Joe's is pretty remarkable in this regard. Their price for
Aaron's poultry and David's meat (the latter of which I have never
eaten) is just a dollar or two over the equivalent non-kosher items, at
least here in Southern California, USA. I only hope whatever deal they
have continues.
Jonathan
maxine in ri
~
~In article <slrndjio1a....@newsgroups.comcast.net>, Ron
Aaron <ronaaron@mike_row_soft.com> writes:
~> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:36:28 +0000 (UTC), in...@rambam.biz
<in...@rambam.biz>
~> wrote:
~>> Rubashkin and Empire costs almost exactly double by me. Doesn't
cost
~>> anywhere near twice as much to feed, shecht and bedika the
animals.
~>> It's a ripoff, and that's why most American Jews don't want to buy
this
~>> kosher meat. Maybe we should all learn to become shochets. Simcha
~>
~> You didn't respond to my previous rebuttal to your
hyperventilation. Please
~> read and respond point by point. Kosher meat is only a ripoff if
you don't
~> care about kashruth -- in which case, why the hell do you care how
much it
~> costs?
~>
~> The reason "most American Jews" don't want to buy this meat is
because they
~> couldn't care less about kashruth - not because of its price. Get
real.
~>
~
~
~I'm no expert in econometrics and supply/demand curves, but my guess
~is that if every American Jewish family purchased ONLY kosher meat,
~the cost of kosher meat would plummet.
~
~Josh
For me, it's either the few wrapped odds and ends that the local deli
gets in, the frozen stuff at the supermarket, or a 50-mile ride in
either direction to buy (a larger selection) of packaged meats. The
lone butcher has retired, and I don't know of anyone who has replaced
him, so no fresh cuts that I get to pick myself.
So we eat a lot of fish and vegetarian entrees, and have chicken or
meat on Shabbat and chagim. Probably healthier for that.
maxine in ri
fla...@verizon.net
On 28-Sep-2005, "Jonathan K. Cohen" <jkc...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Trader Joe's is pretty remarkable in this regard. Their price for
> Aaron's poultry and David's meat
Do they actually have kosher meat where you are?
If so, would a request in another area get them to market it elsewhere??
Wait a minute, why am I asking you about their policy....?
Susan
Janet E Rosenbaum
>Do they actually have kosher meat where you are?
>If so, would a request in another area get them to market it elsewhere??
>Wait a minute, why am I asking you about their policy....?
Yes, they have fresh Empire chicken at Trader Joe's in the Boston area
as well. The ones in the Boston area are not stored cold enough,
though, so I would only buy it if I was going to cook it that day, if that.
They used to sell frozen Empire chicken in the huge bags, but upgraded to
fresh, but it would have been better if they stayed with frozen.
When you are talking to people at the stores, point out that Empire
chicken was named the #1 best tasting chicken by Cook's Illustrated (or
one of the top 2, I don't remember) and that many non-kosher cookbook
authors like Mark Bittman request that their readers use kosher chicken.
Janet
Janet E Rosenbaum
>Use GOOGLE and shop online. You can buy kosher chicken for half the
>cost above. I just checked a few sites.
That would be great, but how much is the shipping?
On most meats that I have seen, the shipping costs more than the meat
itself.
>What is outrageous are the US prices for kosher beef (which are at least
>two if not three times higher than comparable cost in Israel. The price
>differential relates to fresh vs. frozen meat).
They're different products. Pre-frozen meat, especially after it has
been defrosted, always sells for less because it's been hurt by the
freezing process: the texture is worse, and it's more likely to grow
things.
>If you want to make a lot of money, import frozen kashered Argentinian
>beef and sell online. The meat will have the hashgacha of the Israeli
>Chief Rabbinate.
Fwiw, a fair number of people take (kashrut) issue with the frozen beef
because of some stage in the salting/soaking process --- it's not just
the real frummies, either. I know a few moderate people who won't eat
basar kafooi.
Janet
cindys
"Janet E Rosenbaum" <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:dhhgnn$u9p$1...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu...
Correct. The meat is supposed to be kashered within 72 hours of slaughter.
In my town, we call this "3-day meat." Above, you are referring to a
halachic loophole which is designed to get around the 72-hour timeframe and
provide a bigger window for the kashering process to occur. (I had thought
it concerned rinsing the meat, but it may be that it was frozen before it
was kashered). The non-glatt meat our butcher used to carry, in addition to
being non-glatt, had also not been kashered within the allotted 72 hours
(the processor took advantage of the loophole), and that was another issue
that many of us had with it. The meat the butcher currently carries is glatt
and has been kashered within the 72 hours.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
This a "takana" [ordinance] imposed in the time of the Geonim (1300
years ago).
> In my town, we call this "3-day meat." Above, you are referring to a
> halachic loophole which is designed to get around the 72-hour timeframe and
Using frozen meat is NOT a loophole but a perfectly acceptable way
of postponing melicha (kashering meat). It has been around for many
hundreds of years.
> provide a bigger window for the kashering process to occur. (I had thought
> it concerned rinsing the meat, but it may be that it was frozen before it
> was kashered). The non-glatt meat our butcher used to carry, in addition to
> being non-glatt, had also not been kashered within the allotted 72 hours
> (the processor took advantage of the loophole), and that was another issue
> that many of us had with it. The meat the butcher currently carries is glatt
> and has been kashered within the 72 hours.
The only problem is whether the meat had accidentally defrosted during
the 72 hours.
Josh
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
And it comes recommended by Irving Q. Pullet :-) [Do they still use
this in their ads ??]
Josh
>
> Janet
fla...@verizon.net
Oh, *Empire* I wasn't worried about - all the local stores carry Empire.
I'm snotty enough to usually buy fresh from the kosher place *anyway*
(she says, wondering what *exactly* she's going to do w/the bag of
"legs on sale" sahe's got in the freezer....)
I thought there was beef or something; "Aaron's Meats" was it?
Susan
maxine in ri
<jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> connected the dots and wrote:
~fla...@verizon.net writes:
~>Do they actually have kosher meat where you are?
~>If so, would a request in another area get them to market it
elsewhere??
~>Wait a minute, why am I asking you about their policy....?
~
~Yes, they have fresh Empire chicken at Trader Joe's in the Boston
area
~as well. The ones in the Boston area are not stored cold enough,
~though, so I would only buy it if I was going to cook it that day, if
that.
That would explain why the fresh chicken I bought Thursday night
needed a very long rinse to make it not stink. It was cool last
night, I had it in the insulated bag with the frozen veggies and other
cold things.
I have _got_ to find a weekday to make it into the Harvard Ave area.
My freezer is empty, and the nice butcher down in New London is no
longer working there.
Good Shabbas
maxine in ri
maxine in ri
connected the dots and wrote:
~
~On 29-Sep-2005, Janet E Rosenbaum <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> wrote:
~
~> >Do they actually have kosher meat where you are?
~> >If so, would a request in another area get them to market it
elsewhere??
~> >Wait a minute, why am I asking you about their policy....?
~>
~> Yes, they have fresh Empire chicken at Trader Joe's in the Boston
area
~> as well. The ones in the Boston area are not stored cold enough,
~> though, so I would only buy it if I was going to cook it that day,
if
~> that.
~> They used to sell frozen Empire chicken in the huge bags, but
upgraded to
~> fresh, but it would have been better if they stayed with frozen.
~>
~> When you are talking to people at the stores, point out that Empire
~> chicken was named the #1 best tasting chicken by Cook's Illustrated
(or
~> one of the top 2, I don't remember) and that many non-kosher
cookbook
~> authors like Mark Bittman request that their readers use kosher
chicken.
~
~Oh, *Empire* I wasn't worried about - all the local stores carry
Empire.
~I'm snotty enough to usually buy fresh from the kosher place *anyway*
~(she says, wondering what *exactly* she's going to do w/the bag of
~"legs on sale" sahe's got in the freezer....)
~
~I thought there was beef or something; "Aaron's Meats" was it?
~
~Susan
Aaron's Meats, and Rubashkin's. At one point, a Chabadnik had planned
to start up an organic kosher farm out in Western MA, but noone's
heard from them since.... (was that thunder I just heard, Mrs Van
Winkler?)
maxine in ri
cindys
"maxine in ri" <wee...@yoohoot.com> wrote in message
news:h1crj1lls3ora0j06...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:41:20 +0000 (UTC), Janet E Rosenbaum
> <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> connected the dots and wrote:
>
> ~fla...@verizon.net writes:
> ~>Do they actually have kosher meat where you are?
> ~>If so, would a request in another area get them to market it
> elsewhere??
> ~>Wait a minute, why am I asking you about their policy....?
> ~
> ~Yes, they have fresh Empire chicken at Trader Joe's in the Boston
> area
> ~as well. The ones in the Boston area are not stored cold enough,
> ~though, so I would only buy it if I was going to cook it that day, if
> that.
>
> That would explain why the fresh chicken I bought Thursday night
> needed a very long rinse to make it not stink.
It sounds like it's spoiled. If you haven't already eaten it, don't.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
in...@rambam.biz
---------------------------
"Melicha" specifically means salting. Comes from "melach" which means
salt, as in Yam Ha'melach, which they tell me is very easy to float in.
Apparently, it's preferable to use the coarse "kosher" salt for several
reasons, it does a better job of drawing out the blood, is less likely
to fall off, etc.
HOWEVER, I believe the "Rima", Rav Isserles, says in Y.D. that if you
don't have coarse salt, you may use the fine stuff.
There is no such thing as truly "kosher" salt. Doesn't really have to
come in the red and yellow diamond crystal box and have a "Magen David"
on it. Just that coarse salt is considered preferable to fine. Simcha
maxine in ri
<cst...@rochester.rr.com> connected the dots and wrote:
~
~"maxine in ri" <wee...@yoohoot.com> wrote in message
~news:h1crj1lls3ora0j06...@4ax.com...
~> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:41:20 +0000 (UTC), Janet E Rosenbaum
~> <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> connected the dots and wrote:
~>
~> ~fla...@verizon.net writes:
~> ~>Do they actually have kosher meat where you are?
~> ~>If so, would a request in another area get them to market it
~> elsewhere??
~> ~>Wait a minute, why am I asking you about their policy....?
~> ~
~> ~Yes, they have fresh Empire chicken at Trader Joe's in the Boston
~> area
~> ~as well. The ones in the Boston area are not stored cold enough,
~> ~though, so I would only buy it if I was going to cook it that day,
if
~> that.
~>
~> That would explain why the fresh chicken I bought Thursday night
~> needed a very long rinse to make it not stink.
~----------
~It sounds like it's spoiled. If you haven't already eaten it, don't.
~Best regards,
~---Cindy S.
There is a fine line that it hadn't crossed just yet. I find if I can
rinse it under cold water and gently rub the sides, as long as the
stench goes away, the meat is still ok to eat, after proper cooking.
If the odor cannot be rinsed off, then the bird goes back or in the
trash.
We all survived and are healthy, after eating it for two meals.
maxine in ri
Z
<adNOs...@SPAMcomcast.net> writes
>
><bac...@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>news:dhbv8k$1og$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
>>
>> <ronaaron@mike_row_soft.com> writes:
>>> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:36:28 +0000 (UTC), in...@rambam.biz
>>> <in...@rambam.biz>
>>>> Rubashkin and Empire costs almost exactly double by me. Doesn't cost
>>>
>>> Please
>>> don't
>>> it
>>>
>>> The reason "most American Jews" don't want to buy this meat is because
>>> they
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>when it's a 'captive' market with less competition. There might be more
>retail outlets, but the suppliers would still create the base from which
>price is added onto by distributors and retailers.
>
>
>
The thing, I'm told, that brought kosher food prices down in Golders
Green Road was an Asian (Indian I think) business buying out one of the
grocery stores.
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.
Z
writes
>In article <1127843947.7...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>in...@rambam.biz writes:
>> A very clever conjecture, hats off, since no one can contradict this.
>>
>> One can certainly argue whether American Jews don't buy kosher
>> because they don't care about halachah, or because of the cost.
>>
>> I suspect it's more of the latter, which we can argue without
>> resolution until Eliyahu ha'ba.
>>
>> My bubbie Ethel, who was not extremely machmir, nevertheless bought a
>> pound of chopmeat from Herbie the kosher butcher. It was nowhere NEAR
>> twice the price. She could shmooze with Herbie, who was haimish,
>> "Hello, Mrs. Kaplan!"
>>
>> My last foray to Stop and Shop in Ridgeway Center in Stamford showed
>> Empire chickens at $4 a lb. compared to $2 for Perdue. Rubashkin meat
>> was like $8, compared to $4 for treif. The kosher meat was, I'm not
>> making this up, between the pork and the veal.
>
>
>Use GOOGLE and shop online. You can buy kosher chicken for half the
>cost above. I just checked a few sites.
>
>In fact, the lower price is actually cheaper than that in Israel.
>
>What is outrageous are the US prices for kosher beef (which are at least
>two if not three times higher than comparable cost in Israel. The price
>differential relates to fresh vs. frozen meat).
>
Harry Weiss
> Jonathan
Their prices on Kosher poultry has been reasonable and Davids is a reliable non glatt
for those who want to buy non Glatt. the only problem is that the Kosher butcher
sell almost no raw chicken.
Albertsons prices are higher than the butcher, but they can have fantastic sales.
Last week for example, the butcher's regular price for Empire Turkey is 1.89. Ralphs
had it on sale for 1.99 and Albertsons for 1.29.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Harry Weiss
> Janet
In the West Coast they switched a few years back from Empire to Rubashkin. Part of
their contract is that the packer pre label each package with the TJ label and price.
There was a problem with the accuracy of weights from Empire.
Harry Weiss
Harry Weiss
We have never had a problem with any spoliage at TJ, but it could be that California
has stricter enforcement of things like fridge temperatures etc.
Omega
rural communities. Lots of custom butchers, often far cheaper than
store purchased meat. I have friends who purchase a half of beef with
the Income Tax refund. It is not all that uncommon for people to have
40 acres of land and raise 8 head of cattle. They make a little profit
and all their friends get a good deal. I have a friend who is a
narcotics cop who does this.
The problem is that American Jews all went to college and forgot how to
get their hands dirty....
in...@rambam.biz
get their hands dirty....Omega
-------------------------
Another problem is that it's hard to make enough money shechting
chickens to live near a minyan in the U.S. in the year 2005.
Can we even imagine that American Yiddishkeit could be destroyed by the
need to make ever more and more money?
I've read that this is the reason that a lot of the great European
Ravs, like the Chofetz Chaim and Elchanan Wasserman, refused to come to
this country in the early 1900's, even though they could have. They
didn't want their Yiddishkeit to drown in a cesspool of dollars. Simcha
Omega
there are several assumptions that need to be addressed
1) there is no need to live in a major urban area. Jews used to live
all over
the Midwest and in small towns. Everyone wanted to go to college so
all the
kids moved to the fancy jobs in the urban areas. Now we have no one
living in
the small towns.
And with modern telecommunications, is there really a need for people
to live in
urban areas? Would smaller urban (and cheaper) areas such as
Indianapolis do
as well?
2) chickens are something that is better done mass produced. However
beef, lamb
and goat are animals that lend themselves to custom butchering. Have
you been in
any farm community? Most have custom butchers who do a head of cattle
at a time.
And make good money yet sell the beef for less per lbs. The reason is
that you purchase either
a whole steer or half a beef (split with someone else) so as to make it
profitable for the
butcher. Goats and lamb are something that you just purchase the whole
animal. Given the
going rate at the stockyards for an animal (per lbs) it might be $1500
for a steer then $140
to butcher. Kosher butching might be a bit more, especially for the
hind quarters. But a goat might
go for $250 for animal and butching.
What many of you seem to not know is that most rural folks buy their
meat this way. Lots of folks
who raise just a few head of cattle for friends and family. Make a
few dollars and write the property
off as a tax expense. You spend a lot of money, needlessly. And get
less than quality meat.
cindys
"Omega" <Omeg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128720146.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
snip>
> What many of you seem to not know is that most rural folks buy their
> meat this way. Lots of folks
> who raise just a few head of cattle for friends and family. Make a
> few dollars and write the property
> off as a tax expense.
----------
I agree. Just as an aside...I have a non-Jewish friend who lives in a small
town in the California desert. He has described for me that it is
commonplace for the town members to buy a communal pig, slaughter it, and
divide up the meat.
Best regards,
--Cindy S.
CW
But how many custom kosher butchers are there in, say, Wyoming or Montana?
CW
in...@rambam.biz
------------
Good point. Now almost all American and Israeli Jews live near big
cities. I wonder why? Is it because we're in love with convenience and
higher paying city jobs? Anyone?
Certainly we could justify the burbs by saying "It gives me more time
and energy to study Torah!" Except almost no one I know at Keheilat
Ahavat Kesef or Anshei Bitul Torah actually studies any.
Apparently, we didn't always used to. My bubby Ethel grew up on a farm
in Russia. I read that most European Jews were rural. I personally have
never wanted to pitch hay and shovel manure. Except on this newgroup.
Here's a link to a frum Yid who moved to Minnesota because he says "his
wife had allergies and had to move out of the city" or something".
Sounds good anyway. Simcha
Tim Meushaw
> But how many custom kosher butchers are there in, say, Wyoming or Montana?
If they set up shop there and provided a butchery store, I'd consider
moving there with 8 or 9 of my closest male friends and their families.
:-) I've gotten somewhat tired of suburbia and would like to move where
there's a bit more space between neighbors. Course, I also want to move
someday to a quiet village in Scotland or Canada, so what do I know, really?
Tim
--
Timothy A. Meushaw
meu...@pobox.com
Micha Berger
: If they set up shop there and provided a butchery store, I'd consider
: moving there with 8 or 9 of my closest male friends and their families.
8?
In any case, you could buy a full size freezer and get your meat wholesale.
If 9 families did this (distributing shipping costs), the price would
be lower than from a butcher shop anyway.
GCT!
-mi
--
Micha Berger Take time,
mi...@aishdas.org be exact,
http://www.aishdas.org unclutter the mind.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rabbi Simcha Zissel Ziv, Alter of Kelm
CW
"Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
news:dib232$tr1$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 06:13:51 +0000 (UTC), Tim Meushaw <meu...@pobox.com>
> wrote:
> : If they set up shop there and provided a butchery store, I'd consider
> : moving there with 8 or 9 of my closest male friends and their families.
>
> 8?
>
> In any case, you could buy a full size freezer and get your meat
> wholesale.
> If 9 families did this (distributing shipping costs), the price would
> be lower than from a butcher shop anyway.
>
> GCT!
Grand Central Terminal!
G'mar V'chatsima Tovah!
CW
Tim Meushaw
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 06:13:51 +0000 (UTC), Tim Meushaw <meu...@pobox.com> wrote:
>: If they set up shop there and provided a butchery store, I'd consider
>: moving there with 8 or 9 of my closest male friends and their families.
>
> 8?
The butcher would already be there. Butcher + me + 8 others.
> In any case, you could buy a full size freezer and get your meat wholesale.
> If 9 families did this (distributing shipping costs), the price would
> be lower than from a butcher shop anyway.
That's true. We've been working out logistics of heading to a kosher
store once a month or so and stocking up. :-)
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> "cindys" <cst...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>> "Janet E Rosenbaum" <jero...@hcs.harvard.edu> wrote in message
snip
>>> >If you want to make a lot of money, import frozen kashered Argentinian
>>> >beef and sell online. The meat will have the hashgacha of the Israeli
>>> >Chief Rabbinate.
>>>
>>> Fwiw, a fair number of people take (kashrut) issue with the frozen beef
>>> because of some stage in the salting/soaking process --- it's not just
>>> the real frummies, either. I know a few moderate people who won't eat
>>> basar kafooi.
>> --------
>> Correct. The meat is supposed to be kashered within 72 hours of slaughter.
>
> This a "takana" [ordinance] imposed in the time of the Geonim (1300
> years ago).
>
>> In my town, we call this "3-day meat." Above, you are referring to a
>> halachic loophole which is designed to get around the 72-hour timeframe and
>
> Using frozen meat is NOT a loophole but a perfectly acceptable way
> of postponing melicha (kashering meat). It has been around for many
> hundreds of years.
Is it really that 'acceptable"? I recall that Rav Kook made use of
the rule for the sake of hospitals which could not afford the regular
meat and afterwards the ruling got "extended".
> The only problem is whether the meat had accidentally defrosted during
> the 72 hours.
Which sounds like a legitimate concern as well.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Joel Shurkin
"Tim Meushaw" <meu...@pobox.com> wrote:
Did you know that one of the kosher butchers here in Baltimore delivers in
Washington? I was doing the kosher meat run for my son until we found that
out.
J
Joel N. Shurkin
Baltimore, Maryland
On the web at: www.shurkin.us
Blogs: http://cabbageskings.blogspot.com
http://yussel.blogspot.com
---
"Ignorantia non est argumentum."
Baruch Spinoza
Tim Meushaw
> On 10/9/05 10:05 PM, in article slrndkjitv....@athens.meushaw.com,
> "Tim Meushaw" <meu...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> That's true. We've been working out logistics of heading to a kosher
>> store once a month or so and stocking up. :-)
>
> Washington? I was doing the kosher meat run for my son until we found that
> out.
Yup, not only do I know, but for the holidays, my mother-in-law places a
fairly large order with the butcher and has it delivered directly to us
(since they more often than not come to us for any holidays). Imagine
my surprise if I opened my door to receive the meat order, and you were
there.... :-)
Joel Shurkin
"Tim Meushaw" <meu...@pobox.com> wrote:
I have been known to make home deliveries....
Yisroel Markov
Wouldn't work as well for observant Jews, what with having to get rid
of the entire rear half of the animal (good treibers are virtually
non-existent outside of Israel, AFAIK).
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Steve Goldfarb
>>I agree. Just as an aside...I have a non-Jewish friend who lives in a small
>>town in the California desert. He has described for me that it is
>>commonplace for the town members to buy a communal pig, slaughter it, and
>>divide up the meat.
>Wouldn't work as well for observant Jews, what with having to get rid
>of the entire rear half of the animal (good treibers are virtually
>non-existent outside of Israel, AFAIK).
Why not? No reason you couldn't do this as a "joint venture" among a group
of observant Jews and non-Jewish neighbors. You could essentially "sell
subscriptions" in the animal, that is, pre-order the pieces you want, and
then once you have the whole animal sold arrange for the schechita and
butchering. I doubt the non-Jews would care about who butchered it.
IIRC our local kosher butcher (I think - this might have been post-kosher)
used to sell "sides of beef," where you'd get a nice price if you bought
the whole "side." My parents would go in with some relatives and friends
on it, and everyone would stock up their freezers. You'd buy the whole
thing, but the butcher would still cut it up into steaks or whatever for
you.
I imagine any butcher would be willing to do this, kosher or otherwise --
just as you get a better price per pound if you buy the whole chicken, so
too you'd get a better price per pound if you bought the whole "side."
--s
--
cindys
"Yisroel Markov" <ey.m...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:i45lk15u67o3nvreq...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:51:14 +0000 (UTC), "cindys"
> <cst...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>
> >
> >"Omega" <Omeg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1128720146.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >snip>
> >> What many of you seem to not know is that most rural folks buy their
> >> meat this way. Lots of folks
> >> who raise just a few head of cattle for friends and family. Make a
> >> few dollars and write the property
> >> off as a tax expense.
> >----------
> >I agree. Just as an aside...I have a non-Jewish friend who lives in a
small
> >town in the California desert. He has described for me that it is
> >commonplace for the town members to buy a communal pig, slaughter it, and
> >divide up the meat.
>
> Wouldn't work as well for observant Jews, what with having to get rid
> of the entire rear half of the animal (good treibers are virtually
> non-existent outside of Israel, AFAIK).
This is true.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fla...@verizon.net
On 10-Oct-2005, ey.m...@iname.com (Yisroel Markov) wrote:
> .I have a non-Jewish friend who lives in a small
> >town in the California desert. He has described for me that it is
> >commonplace for the town members to buy a communal pig, slaughter it, and
> >divide up the meat.
>
> Wouldn't work as well for observant Jews, what with having to get rid
> of the entire rear half of the animal (good treibers are virtually
> non-existent outside of Israel, AFAIK).
Which 2 posts, when taken STRICTLY together, reminds me of a very
sweet friend I have who was discussing food for a party and was
surprised that there wasn't at least *some* part of the pig I could still
eat....
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 10-Oct-2005, ey.m...@iname.com (Yisroel Markov) wrote:
> .I have a non-Jewish friend who lives in a small
> >town in the California desert. He has described for me that it is
> >commonplace for the town members to buy a communal pig, slaughter it, and
> >divide up the meat.
>
> Wouldn't work as well for observant Jews, what with having to get rid
> of the entire rear half of the animal (good treibers are virtually
> non-existent outside of Israel, AFAIK).
Which 2 posts, when taken STRICTLY together, reminds me of a very