The Making of a Gadol
Gil Perl
Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
--
"Kol d'avad rachmana l'tav avad"
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Does anyone know the details of the recent ban placed on Rabbi
> Nathan Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
I just saw signe up banning the book. Could you give us some details
about it and the author? TIA.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
Fiona
<mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:2002Dec...@mm.huji.ac.il...
> "Gil Perl" <pe...@fas.harvard.edu> writes:
> > Does anyone know the details of the recent ban placed on Rabbi
> > Nathan Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
>
> about it and the author? TIA.
Banned by whom? As you (Moshe) are in Israel I assume the 'ban' is in
Israel, but who is doing the banning? Or is it just a publicity stunt?
Fiona
Sheldon Ackerman
>Does anyone know the details of the recent ban placed on Rabbi Nathan
>Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
It has been banned by many of the Gadolim in Israel as well as by many in
America.
There is no point to go into detail here.
Jonathan J. Baker
><mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>> "Gil Perl" <pe...@fas.harvard.edu> writes:
>> > Does anyone know the details of the recent ban placed on Rabbi
>> > Nathan Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
>> I just saw signs up banning the book. Could you give us some details
>> about it and the author? TIA.
>Banned by whom? As you (Moshe) are in Israel I assume the 'ban' is in
>Israel, but who is doing the banning? Or is it just a publicity stunt?
No, it's banned here too. It was in the stores for a couple of weeks,
and then disappeared. Apparently some unnamed parties were uncomfortable
with some of the things that the author said about his father, the subject
of the book. Now, whether these were true things that these parties wanted
sanitized, or actual false things, has not been clarified. But the author
has apparently issued a notice that sales should stop until it has been
reviewed by yet another recognized gadol.
One of my neighbors bought it when it first came out, and says it's good
and has many inspiring stories.
--
Jonathan Baker | Calendar curiosity: 10 Tevet can't fall on Shabat,
jjb...@panix.com | but if it did, it trumps Shabat.
Web page, featuring Rambam Resources: <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker>
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
>><mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
>>> "Gil Perl" <pe...@fas.harvard.edu> writes:
>
>>> > Does anyone know the details of the recent ban placed on Rabbi
>>> > Nathan Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
>
>>> I just saw signs up banning the book. Could you give us some details
>>> about it and the author? TIA.
>
>>Banned by whom? As you (Moshe) are in Israel I assume the 'ban' is in
>>Israel, but who is doing the banning? Or is it just a publicity stunt?
>
> No, it's banned here too. It was in the stores for a couple of weeks,
> and then disappeared. Apparently some unnamed parties were uncomfortable
> with some of the things that the author said about his father, the subject
> of the book.
Who is that?
> Now, whether these were true things that these parties wanted
> sanitized, or actual false things, has not been clarified. But the author
> has apparently issued a notice that sales should stop until it has been
> reviewed by yet another recognized gadol.
>
> One of my neighbors bought it when it first came out, and says it's good
> and has many inspiring stories.
I'm not surprised.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
prunes, wait a little while, go to the beis kise, and push. There goes your
gadol.
IS
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> writes:
>> No, it's banned here too. It was in the stores for a couple of weeks,
>> and then disappeared. Apparently some unnamed parties were uncomfortable
>> with some of the things that the author said about his father, the subject
>> of the book.
>Who is that?
R' Yaakov Kamenetsky, I think.
Actually, it may not be things about RYK, but things about other people
mentioned in the book. As I say, the actual "objectionable" passages
have not been identified.
>> Now, whether these were true things that these parties wanted
>> sanitized, or actual false things, has not been clarified. But the author
>> has apparently issued a notice that sales should stop until it has been
>> reviewed by yet another recognized gadol.
Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
called on him to mediate.
Here's the author's statement of withdrawal (from an ad in Yated a week
or two ago):
: "Since there were those who complained about things
: brought in my book Making of a Gadol, I agreed that English speaking Gedolai
: Torah who will be named and approved by Rav Elyashiv will read the book and
: everything that they feel should be change - I will change. I gave
: instructions not to distribute the book and I ask that anyone who has the
: book should not read it until the matter is clarified."
: Signed, The Author
Fiona
"Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:at2f9c$djl$1...@reader1.panix.com...
So it has not been *banned*! The author has withdrawn it from sale, to
avoid, or because of, legal dispute. A pretty big difference I would say.
That's why asked orginally, "who has banned it?" Because as far as I know,
no one has the authority in either Israel or the west to actual *ban* books
unless they fall into a certain category of 'incitement to racial hatred' in
which case they don't even reach the regular print works.
Fiona
Sheldon Ackerman
>One of my neighbors bought it when it first came out, and says it's good
>and has many inspiring stories.
>
One of my neighbors bought it and said it was "pure garbage."
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
>to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
>to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
>objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
>apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
>called on him to mediate.
>
The week of Nov. 29th, the Yated ran the copy of the ban from gadolim in the
US.
>
>: "Since there were those who complained about things
>: brought in my book Making of a Gadol, I agreed that English speaking Gedolai
>: Torah who will be named and approved by Rav Elyashiv will read the book and
>: everything that they feel should be change - I will change. I gave
>: instructions not to distribute the book and I ask that anyone who has the
>: book should not read it until the matter is clarified."
>
I was under the impression that Rav Elyashiv was one of the first to ban the
book. I guess I am wrong.
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>So it has not been *banned*! The author has withdrawn it from sale, to
>avoid, or because of, legal dispute. A pretty big difference I would say.
>That's why asked orginally, "who has banned it?" Because as far as I know,
>no one has the authority in either Israel or the west to actual *ban* books
>unless they fall into a certain category of 'incitement to racial hatred' in
>which case they don't even reach the regular print works.
>
>
>Fiona
>
YES, Fiona, it has been banned. Perhaps it is a question of semantics. When
gadolim come out with a statement that no one should read the book and that
no one should sell the book, you will have a very difficult time finding it
in any Seforim store. It may have been about a year ago that another book
involving a fictitious debate between an orthodox rabbi and a reform rabbi
(I think it was a reform rabbi) was banned as well.
Fiona
"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
news:slrnav9osl....@amanda.dorsai.org...
> In article <at2f9c$djl$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
>
> >
> >Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
> >to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
> >to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
> >objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
> >apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
> >called on him to mediate.
> >
> The week of Nov. 29th, the Yated ran the copy of the ban from gadolim in
the
> US.
So these Rabbonim have the authority to override the free speech laws of the
US, or were they *suggesting* that Jews who follow their rulings shouldn't
buy this book because it contains Lashon HaRa or something?
Jonathan J. Baker
>In article <k>, Fiona wrote:
>>So it has not been *banned*! The author has withdrawn it from sale, to
>>avoid, or because of, legal dispute. A pretty big difference I would say.
>YES, Fiona, it has been banned. Perhaps it is a question of semantics. When
>gadolim come out with a statement that no one should read the book and that
>no one should sell the book, you will have a very difficult time finding it
>in any Seforim store. It may have been about a year ago that another book
>involving a fictitious debate between an orthodox rabbi and a reform rabbi
>(I think it was a reform rabbi) was banned as well.
More like a couple of months ago. The Reinman/Hirsch book came out in
September, and was banned in October.
Since it was published by a mainstream publisher, not as open to
intimidation by "daas Torah", all it did was generate more publicity,
and limit its availability in Orthodox neighborhoods.
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
>> >Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
>> >to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
>> >to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
>> >objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
>> >apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
>> >called on him to mediate.
>> The week of Nov. 29th, the Yated ran the copy of the ban from gadolim in
>> the US.
>So these Rabbonim have the authority to override the free speech laws of the
>US, or were they *suggesting* that Jews who follow their rulings shouldn't
>buy this book because it contains Lashon HaRa or something?
I don't know if it works this way in England, but I've heard that thuggery
is often behind the effectiveness of these book bannings in Israel and the
US. As in, when Mitpachat Sefarim was reprinted a few years back (by R'
Jacob Emden, on the medieval origin of parts of the Zohar), a clerk at
one store in J'lem (since gone) told me that big guys had come around
and told the vendors not to sell the book.
Jess Olson
> In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
> >> In article <at2f9c$djl$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
>
> >> >Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
> >> >to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
> >> >to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
> >> >objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
> >> >apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
> >> >called on him to mediate.
>
> >> The week of Nov. 29th, the Yated ran the copy of the ban from gadolim in
> >> the US.
>
> >So these Rabbonim have the authority to override the free speech laws of the
> >US, or were they *suggesting* that Jews who follow their rulings shouldn't
> >buy this book because it contains Lashon HaRa or something?
>
> I don't know if it works this way in England, but I've heard that thuggery
> is often behind the effectiveness of these book bannings in Israel and the
> US. As in, when Mitpachat Sefarim was reprinted a few years back (by R'
> Jacob Emden, on the medieval origin of parts of the Zohar), a clerk at
> one store in J'lem (since gone) told me that big guys had come around
> and told the vendors not to sell the book.
A very, very sorry commentary. I guess as a person in the academic world,
I take a very dim view of the banning of books. And intimidation of those
who sell them.
JO
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>So these Rabbonim have the authority to override the free speech laws of the
>US, or were they *suggesting* that Jews who follow their rulings shouldn't
>buy this book because it contains Lashon HaRa or something?
>
These Rabbonim have the authority to state their opinion and tell you what
to do. You have the "bechirah" to do as you wish.
Harry Weiss
Are you sure you are not talking about the current Reniman/Hirsch book. I
had not intention of buying it, but once it was banned, I felt it was
worth reading, so I bought it.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Harry Weiss
> In <> acke...@amanda.dorsai.org (Sheldon Ackerman) writes:
>>In article <k>, Fiona wrote:
>>>So it has not been *banned*! The author has withdrawn it from sale, to
>>>avoid, or because of, legal dispute. A pretty big difference I would say.
>>YES, Fiona, it has been banned. Perhaps it is a question of semantics. When
>>gadolim come out with a statement that no one should read the book and that
>>no one should sell the book, you will have a very difficult time finding it
>>in any Seforim store. It may have been about a year ago that another book
>>involving a fictitious debate between an orthodox rabbi and a reform rabbi
>>(I think it was a reform rabbi) was banned as well.
> More like a couple of months ago. The Reinman/Hirsch book came out in
> September, and was banned in October.
> Since it was published by a mainstream publisher, not as open to
> intimidation by "daas Torah", all it did was generate more publicity,
> and limit its availability in Orthodox neighborhoods.
Of course it is avaialble everywhere through Amzaon (and it is featured on
our O shul's website. by featuring it we get 15% vs. 5%.)
> --
> Jonathan Baker | Calendar curiosity: 10 Tevet can't fall on Shabat,
> jjb...@panix.com | but if it did, it trumps Shabat.
> Web page, featuring Rambam Resources: <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker>
Henry Goodman
"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
news:slrnav9p5m....@amanda.dorsai.org...
You can't get the Chief Rabbi's "Dignity of Difference "at present either.
--
Henry Goodman
henry....@virgin.net
Eliyahu Rooff
"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:at2rnc$8lv$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
agencies from interfering with free speech, printing and publication, etc..
There's nothing in our laws that bans any group, religion or organization
from telling its members not to read something, nor should there be.
Eliyahu
Eliyahu Rooff
"Harry Weiss" <hjw...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:at397h$o1u$2...@reader1.panix.com...
libraries or other groups. He looked forward to the action, as it guaranteed
ten times as many sales as he could otherwise expect.
Eliyahu
bbsstmez
Shmuel Auerbach, Rabbi Elyashiv and others. The ban was issued as they felt
that there were some parts of the book that put Gedolim in negative light.
They do recognize that the majority of the book is beneficial, as such I
believe that a compromised has been reached though where parts of the book
will be removed, the book reprinted & the ban lifted.
"Gil Perl" <pe...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:at17ie$hgs$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Ron Aaron
I am disappointed in you, Ian. I thought you were going to mention how with a
little handwork, a katan can be made into a gadol.
Ron
GAN EDEN WINES
"Jess Olson" <j...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.021209...@cardinal4.Stanford.EDU...
> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
>
> > In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
> > >"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
> > >> In article <at2f9c$djl$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
> > and told the vendors not to sell the book.
>
> A very, very sorry commentary. I guess as a person in the academic world,
> I take a very dim view of the banning of books. And intimidation of those
> who sell them.
BS"D
As do most of us. It's funny that a beis din will not send out thugs to
force people to pay money to those to whom they owe a great deal and refuse
to pay, or to force a get, and yet will do this over a mere book they don't
like (assuming the story is true, and I have no reason to doubt it).
Misplaced priorities, I'd say, and symptomatic of problems in the Jewish
world.
Craig Winchell
GAN EDEN Wines
Fiona
"Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> wrote
So "Mein Kamf" and the "Protocols" are freely available in US high street
book stores, are they?
Fiona
Eliyahu
"GAN EDEN WINES" <gan...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1fdJ9.1513$cL4.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jess Olson" <j...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.44.021209...@cardinal4.Stanford.EDU...
> > On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
> >
> > > In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
> > > >"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
> > > >> In article <at2f9c$djl$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Jonathan J. Baker
wrote:
> > > and told the vendors not to sell the book.
> >
> <snipped>
>
> > A very, very sorry commentary. I guess as a person in the academic
world,
> > I take a very dim view of the banning of books. And intimidation of
those
> > who sell them.
>
> BS"D
>
> As do most of us. It's funny that a beis din will not send out thugs to
> force people to pay money to those to whom they owe a great deal and
refuse
> to pay, or to force a get, and yet will do this over a mere book they
don't
> like (assuming the story is true, and I have no reason to doubt it).
> Misplaced priorities, I'd say, and symptomatic of problems in the Jewish
> world.
>
opposed to the other things you mention. Refusing to pay a debt or to give a
get affects one or two people. Writing a book, OTOH, can affect the lives of
many. (Otherwise, we wouldn't write...)
Eliyahu
Eliyahu
that will carry either, but they're free to carry them if they want to.
OTOH, we're also free to picket stores that carry such trash, to write
letters of protest to the editors of newspapers exposing the stores that do
so, and to open competing stores with better quality merchandise. One of the
reasons that few stores carry them is simply the realities of business
practice: It doesn't pay to carry low-demand merchandise that will offend
the folks who buy the high-volume stuff. (And it's not just Jews who are
offended by them. Most decent folks want nothing to do with that stuff, and
don't want their kids exposed to it.)
Eliyahu
Harry Weiss
>> : Signed, The Author
> So it has not been *banned*! The author has withdrawn it from sale, to
> avoid, or because of, legal dispute. A pretty big difference I would say.
> That's why asked orginally, "who has banned it?" Because as far as I know,
> no one has the authority in either Israel or the west to actual *ban* books
> unless they fall into a certain category of 'incitement to racial hatred' in
> which case they don't even reach the regular print works.
You are talking about Government banning vs. Rabbinical banning, which is
saying one is prohibited from reading/selling/buying a book. It has no
legal force, but tremedous power in certain publishing houses, bookstores
etc.
> Fiona
Fiona
"Eliyahu" <lro...@hotmail.com> wrote
Unfortunately the weakness in that argument is that it relies on "decency"
(a very fluid concept), what happens when it becomes the decent thing to do
to attack (even kill) Jews? Ask the Germans, they understand this, and that
is why books that promote racial hatred, and Nazi propoganda in particular,
are illegal to buy, sell, or publish in Germany. Freedom of speech, and
incitement are not the same thing.
Fiona
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
>
>>One of my neighbors bought it when it first came out, and says
>>it's good and has many inspiring stories.
>>
> One of my neighbors bought it and said it was "pure garbage."
If you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe borrow the book and
give us a first hand opinion?
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>> > In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> > >"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
>> > and told the vendors not to sell the book.
>>
> <snipped>
>
>> A very, very sorry commentary. I guess as a person in the academic
>> world, I take a very dim view of the banning of books. And
>> intimidation of those who sell them.
>
> As do most of us. It's funny that a beis din will not send out
> thugs to force people to pay money to those to whom they owe a great
> deal and refuse to pay, or to force a get, and yet will do this over
> a mere book they don't like (assuming the story is true, and I have
> no reason to doubt it). Misplaced priorities, I'd say, and
> symptomatic of problems in the Jewish world.
Have to agree with you on this one, Craig.
20 lines of _sigs_ snipped. C'mon can't we all do that?
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>If you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe borrow the book and
>give us a first hand opinion?
>
Moshe, I don't know about you, but personally once a list of gadolim suggest
that a certain thing is assur, I don't bother getting a first hand opinion.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
news:at2q6v$bfg$2...@falcon.steinthal.us...
It has been reissued under the more appropriate title "Dreck with Dignity!"
IS
Dr. Shlomo Argamon (Engelson)
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il writes:
> acke...@amanda.dorsai.org (Sheldon Ackerman) writes:
> > Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
> >
> >>One of my neighbors bought it when it first came out, and says
> >>it's good and has many inspiring stories.
> >>
> > One of my neighbors bought it and said it was "pure garbage."
>
> If you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe borrow the book and
> give us a first hand opinion?
Heck, if your neighbor bought it and considers it garbage, perhaps he
wouldn't mind sending me his copy (which he obviously doesn't want)?
-Shlomo-
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Jess Olson" <j...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
>> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
>> > In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> > and told the vendors not to sell the book.
><snipped>
>> A very, very sorry commentary. I guess as a person in the academic world,
>> I take a very dim view of the banning of books. And intimidation of those
>> who sell them.
>As do most of us. It's funny that a beis din will not send out thugs to
>force people to pay money to those to whom they owe a great deal and refuse
>to pay, or to force a get, and yet will do this over a mere book they don't
>like (assuming the story is true, and I have no reason to doubt it).
Did I say that a beis din had sent the thugs? No.
Why assume that a beis din sent the thugs? After all, many of the Kol Koreh
posters which claim to be in the name of this or that set of gedolim, some
of the signatories never heard of the poster. This seems to happen to R'
Elyashiv on more than one occasion (this being one of them).
>Misplaced priorities, I'd say, and symptomatic of problems in the Jewish
>world.
Well, yes. But such things are not confined to "black-hatters". When I
was in high school, the school paper did a religion survey, in which they
found that 90% of the students believed in God. A few days after the paper
came out, there was a meeting for parents of prospective students. Before
the meeting, all copies of the paper were collected and destroyed, rather
than let the prospective parents discover that 10% of the student body didn't
believe in God. Rather than address the issue (it was a Jewish school, after
all) the administration believed the best course of action was to cover it
up.
GAN EDEN WINES
BS"D
Gedolim also condemned the movie "Schindler's List". I saw it, and saw
nothing objectionable in it's portayal (and much objectionable in what was
portrayed, of course). The condemnation was largely meaningless, because a
great many of those who held by those Gedolim already did not watch movies
or television, so they wouldn't be in a position to watch the movie. Those
Gedolim assume a greater "refinement" in the population than what's actually
present. While it is certainly proper to move the population towards
refinement, book banning is the wrong way to go about it. In fact, book
banning may have just the opposite effect from that which was desired, due
to people's wishing to understand the reasoning behind the ban.
Jonathan J. Baker
>> >If you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe borrow the book and
>> >give us a first hand opinion?
>> Moshe, I don't know about you, but personally once a list of gadolim
>suggest
>> that a certain thing is assur, I don't bother getting a first hand
>opinion.
>Gedolim also condemned the movie "Schindler's List". I saw it, and saw
>nothing objectionable in it's portayal (and much objectionable in what was
>portrayed, of course). The condemnation was largely meaningless, because a
>great many of those who held by those Gedolim already did not watch movies
>or television, so they wouldn't be in a position to watch the movie. Those
The JO banned it because of the sex scene between Amon Goth and his girl-
friend. If anything, that scene just emphasized the dehumanization of
the Jews. Wake up, shoot some Jews, take a leak, shoot some more Jews,
f**k your girlfriend, shoot some more Jews. Killing Jews is about as
meaningful to this monster as bodily functions, like excretion and sex.
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>Gedolim also condemned the movie "Schindler's List". I saw it, and saw
>nothing objectionable in it's portayal (and much objectionable in what was
>portrayed, of course). The condemnation was largely meaningless, because a
>great many of those who held by those Gedolim already did not watch movies
>or television, so they wouldn't be in a position to watch the movie. Those
>Gedolim assume a greater "refinement" in the population than what's actually
>present. While it is certainly proper to move the population towards
>refinement, book banning is the wrong way to go about it. In fact, book
>banning may have just the opposite effect from that which was desired, due
>to people's wishing to understand the reasoning behind the ban.
>
That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. But realize that
what you are now doing is saying that you will obey what you understand and
not necessarily obey what you don't understand. You are entitled to that as
well. However many Jews do have a Rav or gadol whom they go to for
questions. They will follow this Rav's advice without asking him the reason
for his answer. The questions they ask will range from halachah questions to
whether or not they should move to a certain area, or go through with a
certain shiddach.
Harry Weiss
> Fiona
The big question is what is incitement. US uses a very very narrow
defnition. In Israel a lady (I think her name was Tatiana Suskind) was
imprisoned for having a picture depicting Mohammad as a pig. Here in the
US anyone would be free to distribute something like that. It is legal
to say all of group x is better dead than alive. it is NOT legal to say
go get your guns and shoot members of group x.
I prefer things that way. Look at Chesronos Hasas and see all the things
the Europeans try do censor out of the Talmud.
GAN EDEN WINES
BS"D
And with that statement, you're implying that I don't have such a rav. The
fact is that I do, and he's also considered a gadol. Of course, I go to my
rav with a shaila, and I follow the psak, whether I like it or not. I ask
my rav advice, and I'm not held to following it, though chances are I will,
because I value his advice, which is why I asked in the first place. My rav
presents a position on a particular topic, I'll hold by that position, if I
ascertain that he indeed held to publicly presenting that position, and that
he feels it's incumbent upon me. If that's his private position, but he
personally did not publicize it, it remains personal. Certainly, if my rav
told me something was downright usser, I would not do it. I don't see
what's ambiguous to you about my position. A person's rav has the right to
insist upon changes in the behavior of that person. A wise rav knows how
far he can go with his insistence, not to place his charge in an untenable
position. A rav who is not that person's rav may desire to effect changes
in one's behavior, but has no right to insist upon the changes. A rav who
wishes a particular book not to be read can insist on it among those who
hold him to be their rav, but not the bookseller down the street who has a
different rav, or the publisher who published the book who has a different
rav, and hasn't the right to send out, or imply that it's ok to have, thugs
threatening local bookstore owners. Gedolim carry a lot of weight among the
Jewish community, but it is the individual's rav who should, in the end,
decide whether to insist upon his charge's manifesting the desires of any
particular gadol, or group of gedolim. When we again have a beis din in
Israel to which everyone holds, we can again have gedolim with the right to
influence the whole of Jewry (BS"D).
Fiona
"Harry Weiss" <hjw...@panix.com> wrote
I don't think that what the Xtian church tried to censor out of the Talmud
through history has much bearing on the current state of affairs. Anyway
they couldn't control what printed (or copied) in the versions make in our
(Sephardi) reshut. So ultimately they doomed to failure.
Fiona
Harry Weiss
Many of us don't blindly follow every list of self declared gedolim. I
follow the principle of Aseh lecho Rav, and frequently he does not agree
with the lastest nareshkeit.
The best statement about the Moetzet Gedolei Hotorah is that they are not
a Moatazet, they are not gedolim and they do not represent Torah.
Micha Berger
: Many of us don't blindly follow every list of self declared gedolim. I
: with the lastest nareshkeit.
: The best statement about the Moetzet Gedolei Hotorah is that they are not
: a Moatazet, they are not gedolim and they do not represent Torah.
"Self declared gedolim"? Rav Moshe Feinstein wasn't a gadol? Nor Rav
Yaakov Kamenetzky? Lbchl"ch the Novominsker Rebbe and the Vizhnitzer
Rebbe aren't gedolei Torah?
Absurd!
Agudah has problems with its notions of gadol. First, they seem to teach
that gedolim agree on all significant issues. Second, they forget that
a Board of Torah Greats could consist entirely of such greats while not
constaining a wide cross-section of them.
Between the two it created a tendency to write the non aggudist tendencies
of any gadol out of the history.
-mi
--
Micha Berger The mind is a wonderful organ
mi...@aishdas.org for justifying decisions
http://www.aishdas.org the heart already reached.
Fax: (413) 403-9905
Yisroel Markov
<fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> said:
>
>"Harry Weiss" <hjw...@panix.com> wrote
>> Fiona <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>> > Unfortunately the weakness in that argument is that it relies on
>"decency"
>> > (a very fluid concept), what happens when it becomes the decent thing to
>do
>> > to attack (even kill) Jews? Ask the Germans, they understand this, and
>that
>> > is why books that promote racial hatred, and Nazi propoganda in
>particular,
>> > are illegal to buy, sell, or publish in Germany. Freedom of speech, and
>> > incitement are not the same thing.
>>
>>
>> > Fiona
>>
>> The big question is what is incitement. US uses a very very narrow
>> defnition. In Israel a lady (I think her name was Tatiana Suskind) was
>> imprisoned for having a picture depicting Mohammad as a pig. Here in the
>> US anyone would be free to distribute something like that. It is legal
>> to say all of group x is better dead than alive. it is NOT legal to say
>> go get your guns and shoot members of group x.
>>
>> I prefer things that way. Look at Chesronos Hasas and see all the things
>> the Europeans try do censor out of the Talmud.
>
>I don't think that what the Xtian church tried to censor out of the Talmud
>through history has much bearing on the current state of affairs. Anyway
>they couldn't control what printed (or copied) in the versions make in our
>(Sephardi) reshut. So ultimately they doomed to failure.
As is just about any attempt to censor something in today's West. And
a good thing, too, on the balance. As mentioned here, better not to
try - it makes people like me *more* likely to read whatever is being
banned, not less. (Yes, I'm the problem :-)
Yisroel Markov Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Robert
> > The US First Amendment only prohibits the government and governmental
> > agencies from interfering with free speech, printing and publication,
> etc..
> > There's nothing in our laws that bans any group, religion or
organization
> > from telling its members not to read something, nor should there be.
> So "Mein Kamf" and the "Protocols" are freely available in US high street
> book stores, are they?
Yes, they are easily available here in the US. I have personally seen
Hitler's "Mein Kapmpf" on the shelves of more than one bookstore, and I have
seen the anti-semitic forgery "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" available
for sale on many US internet websites. Does this surprise you?
Robert
Fiona
Many are those who confuse the beard with wisdom, and will ask a Rav
questions he is not qualified to answer. Few are the Rabbonim who have the
koach to say, "I am not qualified. Book learning teaches me Halakah, it does
not teach me about geography, or the psychology of marriage."
Fiona
Fiona
> news:slrnavbp9u....@amanda.dorsai.org...
> > In article <2002Dec1...@mm.huji.ac.il>, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >If you're friendly with your neighbors, maybe borrow the book and
> > >give us a first hand opinion?
> > >
> >
> > Moshe, I don't know about you, but personally once a list of gadolim
> suggest
> > that a certain thing is assur, I don't bother getting a first hand
> opinion.
>
> BS"D
>
> Gedolim also condemned the movie "Schindler's List". I saw it, and saw
> nothing objectionable in it's portayal (and much objectionable in what was
> portrayed, of course).
The film was big let down. Thomas Keneally's book was brilliant (I read it a
few times before the film was even made), don't know why Spielberg bothered
if he wasn't going to be true to the book.
> The condemnation was largely meaningless, because a
> great many of those who held by those Gedolim already did not watch movies
> or television, so they wouldn't be in a position to watch the movie.
Those
> Gedolim assume a greater "refinement" in the population than what's
actually
> present. While it is certainly proper to move the population towards
> refinement, book banning is the wrong way to go about it. In fact, book
> banning may have just the opposite effect from that which was desired, due
> to people's wishing to understand the reasoning behind the ban.
Which was why I wondered, earlier in the thread, whether this book banning
was not actually a publicity stunt.
Fiona
Fiona
You really believe the rav has the *right* to insist? From whence does he
get this *right*? He is a paid advisor (either by the community you pay to
be a member of, or by a cash payment), he only has the authority you give
him.
Fiona
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>And with that statement, you're implying that I don't have such a rav. The
>fact is that I do, and he's also considered a gadol.
I was making no such implication. Perhaps you should go back and read your
response to my original post. Was it you or someone else who suggested that
I read the book and make up my own mind?
The rabbanim who "banned" the book did so knowing that the population they
speak for will abide by their decision. I am abiding by their decision.
I really was not implying anything in my message to you. I was however
surprised that someone who I definitely took to be religious (by my
definition of religious) would tell me to make up my own mind. Sorry if I am
repeating myself, and sorry if you were not that individual.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
Mein Kampf was assigned class reading in some course or another at Columbia
when I was there - the edition sold in the university bookstore was
accompanied by an explanation that made it clear that the work was printed
for purposes of academic study and that no profits would go to anyone even
remotely connected with its author for whom ymach shmo is an understatement.
Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the US
except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like. Needless to say, I would not
buy a copy from such a source.
IS
GAN EDEN WINES
relationship between a rav and the person who considers him to be *his* rav
is based upon mutual respect, a similarity of philosophy and hashgafa, and
trust. It's a very intimate relationship. Many times, a person's pulpit
rabbi may not be the person's rav. A person's rav can certainly be, and
probably should be, more than just a posek. Sure, a rav only has the
authority one gives him, but one generally gives his rav quite a bit of
authority, and the rav generally gives the person quite a bit of
independence.
Craig Winchell
GAN EDEN Wines
>
> Fiona
>
>
>
GAN EDEN WINES
"bbsstmez" <bbss...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:S3bJ9.28379$CU3....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> The ban was issues by many of the Ultra Orthodox leadership such as Rabbi
> Shmuel Auerbach, Rabbi Elyashiv and others. The ban was issued as they
felt
> that there were some parts of the book that put Gedolim in negative light.
(snipped)
BS"D
I'm sure there are gedolim out there whose very actions put themselves in a
negative light (to some people), and by way of generalization, gedolim in
general. They're human after all. Their value to Jews is that they *are*
human, yet have expertise in and knowledge of Torah, and generally good
midos. But like other humans, sometimes they fail. One can respect them
and at the same time disagree with them, their opinions and their example,
if warranted. Book banning in general disgusts me.
Craig Winchell
GAN EDEN Wines
> "Gil Perl" <pe...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
> news:at17ie$hgs$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
> > Does anyone know the details of the recent ban placed on Rabbi Nathan
> > Kamintesky's book entitled The Making of a Gadol?
> >
> > --
> > "Kol d'avad rachmana l'tav avad"
> >
> >
>
>
GAN EDEN WINES
> GAN EDEN WINES wrote:
>
> >
> >And with that statement, you're implying that I don't have such a rav.
The
> >fact is that I do, and he's also considered a gadol.
>
> I was making no such implication. Perhaps you should go back and read your
> response to my original post. Was it you or someone else who suggested
that
> I read the book and make up my own mind?
BS"D
Somebody else.
>
> The rabbanim who "banned" the book did so knowing that the population they
> speak for will abide by their decision. I am abiding by their decision.
> I really was not implying anything in my message to you. I was however
> surprised that someone who I definitely took to be religious (by my
> definition of religious) would tell me to make up my own mind. Sorry if I
am
> repeating myself, and sorry if you were not that individual.
Apology accepted, since I wasn't that individual.
Joel Shurkin
Sheldon Ackerman wrote:
> In article <at2gk6$k7c$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>, Fiona wrote:
>
>
>>So it has not been *banned*! The author has withdrawn it from sale, to
>>avoid, or because of, legal dispute. A pretty big difference I would say.
>>That's why asked orginally, "who has banned it?" Because as far as I know,
>>no one has the authority in either Israel or the west to actual *ban* books
>>unless they fall into a certain category of 'incitement to racial hatred' in
>>which case they don't even reach the regular print works.
>>
>>
>>Fiona
>>
>
> YES, Fiona, it has been banned. Perhaps it is a question of semantics. When
> gadolim come out with a statement that no one should read the book and that
> no one should sell the book, you will have a very difficult time finding it
> in any Seforim store. It may have been about a year ago that another book
> involving a fictitious debate between an orthodox rabbi and a reform rabbi
> (I think it was a reform rabbi) was banned as well.
Except, of course, the debate wasn't "fictitious."
j
Joel Shurkin
Fiona wrote:
> "Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>>"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:at2rnc$8lv$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>>"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
>>>news:slrnav9osl....@amanda.dorsai.org...
>>>
>>>>In article <at2f9c$djl$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Jonathan J. Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
>>>>>to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
>>>>>to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
>>>>>objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
>>>>>apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
>>>>>called on him to mediate.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The week of Nov. 29th, the Yated ran the copy of the ban from gadolim
>>>
> in
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>US.
>>>
>>>So these Rabbonim have the authority to override the free speech laws of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>US, or were they *suggesting* that Jews who follow their rulings
>>
> shouldn't
>
>>>buy this book because it contains Lashon HaRa or something?
>>>
>>
>>The US First Amendment only prohibits the government and governmental
>>agencies from interfering with free speech, printing and publication,
>
> etc..
>
>>There's nothing in our laws that bans any group, religion or organization
>>from telling its members not to read something, nor should there be.
>
>
> So "Mein Kamf" and the "Protocols" are freely available in US high street
> book stores, are they?
Yes in both cases although perhaps not "freely."
j
>
>
> Fiona
>
>
Joel Shurkin
Of course not. That would involve thinking for yourself.
j
Sheldon Ackerman
>
>Of course not. That would involve thinking for yourself.
>
>j
I guess you are the sort of individual who sees a sign that says wet paint
and has to touch it to make sure it is really wet.
Sheldon Ackerman
>>Gedolim also condemned the movie "Schindler's List". I saw it, and saw
I forgot to add this in my other message to GAN EDEN.
I was under the impression that Gedolim condemn ALL movies :-)
Jonathan J. Baker
>"Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> So "Mein Kamf" and the "Protocols" are freely available in US high street
>> book stores, are they?
>Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the US
>except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like. Needless to say, I would not
>buy a copy from such a source.
It's available any number of places on-line. Wasn't there a movie or a
novel or something about some Jews who decided, fed up with antisemitism,
to make the Protocols come true?
See, e.g. <http://ddickerson.igc.org/protocols.html> for the text and
some commentary by Danny Keren.
Robert
>> Moshe, I don't know about you, but personally once a list of gadolim
>> suggest that a certain thing is assur, I don't bother getting a first
>> hand opinion.
Joel replied:
> Of course not. That would involve thinking for yourself.
Joel,
Thanks for the best post of the day! The difference between his position and
yours is the difference between brain-dead fundamentalist Judaism, and
historical Judaism. (I prefer the latter) As Edmund Fleg wrote "I am a Jew
because the faith of Israel demands of me no abdication of the mind."
(The following is an excerpt from "Why I Am a Jew" by Edmond Fleg, 1927,
Translated from French. )
I am a Jew because, born of Israel and having lost her,
I have felt her live again in me, more living than myself.
I am a Jew because, born of Israel and having regained her,
I wish her to live after me, more living than in myself.
I am a Jew because the faith of Israel demands of me no abdication of the
mind.
I am a Jew because the faith of Israel requires of me all the devotion of my
heart.
I am a Jew because in every place where suffering weeps, the Jew weeps.
I am a Jew because at every time when despair cries out, the Jew hopes.
I am a Jew because the word of Israel is the oldest and the newest.
I am a Jew because the promise of Israel if the universal promise.
I am a Jew because, for Israel, the world is not yet completed; men are
completing it.
I am a Jew because, above the nations and Israel, Israel places man and his
Unity.
I am a Jew because above man, image of the divine Unity, Israel places the
divine Unity, and its divinity.
[A version of this appears in "Siddur Sim Shalom" (Ed. Jules Harlow, 1985)
page 814 ]
Shalom,
Robert Kaiser
toichen
> In <> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >"Sheldon Ackerman" <acke...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
>
> >> >Various rumors have circulated as to who banned it, but nobody seems
> >> >to take real credit for it. Another Kamenetsky brother was rumored
> >> >to have objected (R' Shoul?); he has unequivocally denied that he
> >> >objected to the book. R' Elyashiv's name has been mentioned, but
> >> >apparently he was not the instigator either: the author seems to have
> >> >called on him to mediate.
>
> >> The week of Nov. 29th, the Yated ran the copy of the ban from gadolim in
> >> the US.
>
> >So these Rabbonim have the authority to override the free speech laws of the
> >US, or were they *suggesting* that Jews who follow their rulings shouldn't
> >buy this book because it contains Lashon HaRa or something?
>
> is often behind the effectiveness of these book bannings in Israel and the
> US. As in, when Mitpachat Sefarim was reprinted a few years back (by R'
> Jacob Emden, on the medieval origin of parts of the Zohar), a clerk at
> one store in J'lem (since gone) told me that big guys had come around
> and told the vendors not to sell the book.
Thuggey is an inaccuracy. Represenstatives of some prominent rabbis
went to the bookshops and informed the owners that those rabbis
determined that book should not be sold in the shop. The owners
decided to cease selling the book, as by selling banned books would
antagonise their clientelle. Thus the person who reworked the book was
left with several hundred copies. An unhappy sequel: A number of
sefardi kabbalists decided to impose a pulsa denura on the person who
reprinted the book, and he died a couple of months later. His widow
frightened from what occurred now refuses to sell the book to anyone,
and therefore the books remain piled up in the house. This I heard
from an acquaintance of that family. I do not take any responsiblity
for this story.
toichen
Barbara
(Tirana, Albania) wrote:
> Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the US
> except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like. Needless to say, I would not
> buy a copy from such a source.
It is available on line as a free download from a Jewish web page that also
has several links to commentaries on the Protocols. I haven't read it yet,
though (not sure I want to).
Barbara
Russell Steinthal
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd \(Tirana, Albania\) <myrealemailisia...@matrix.ru> wrote:
>
>Mein Kampf was assigned class reading in some course or another at Columbia
>when I was there - the edition sold in the university bookstore was
>accompanied by an explanation that made it clear that the work was printed
>for purposes of academic study and that no profits would go to anyone even
>remotely connected with its author for whom ymach shmo is an understatement.
>Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the US
>except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like. Needless to say, I would not
>buy a copy from such a source.
An interesting, if somewhat perverse, tidbit I picked up in a class on
The Nuremberg Trials and the Law of War last year:
Adolf Hitler was, obviously, the author of Mein Kampf. He was also the
copyright holder, and the copyright continues to run. When Hitler died,
he was intestate and had no heirs, so under German law, his property
escheated to the state in which he was legally resident at the time.
Thus, to this day, each copy of Mein Kampf purchased causes a royalty to
be paid to the State of Bavaria.
An odd line item in their annual budget, to be sure...
-Russell
>IS
>
>
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> GAN EDEN WINES wrote:
>>
>>And with that statement, you're implying that I don't have such a rav. The
>>fact is that I do, and he's also considered a gadol.
>
> I was making no such implication. Perhaps you should go back and read
> your response to my original post. Was it you or someone else who
> suggested that I read the book and make up my own mind?
You were responding to _me_. But I don't think I was making that
suggestion to _you_. Rather it seemed someone wanted to know the
reason behind the ban (so that's not you) and I suggested he ask his
neighbor for the book. If indeed it _was_ you I was responding to,
please accept my apologies.
> The rabbanim who "banned" the book did so knowing that the population they
> speak for will abide by their decision. I am abiding by their decision.
> I really was not implying anything in my message to you. I was however
> surprised that someone who I definitely took to be religious (by my
> definition of religious) would tell me to make up my own mind. Sorry
> if I am repeating myself, and sorry if you were not that individual.
As I said, I was _not_ suggesting that anyone who _accepted_ the ban
should make up their own mind. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
May Eliyahu Chayim ben Sarah Henna (Eliot Shimoff) have a refuah Shlaima.
Fred Rosenblatt
> Mein Kampf was assigned class reading in some course or another at Columbia
> when I was there - the edition sold in the university bookstore was
> accompanied by an explanation that made it clear that the work was printed
> for purposes of academic study
Arutz-7 mentioned a few years ago that Mein Kampf had been translated
into Hebrew, again for the purposes of academic study. I don't think
it caused any controversy.
> and that no profits would go to anyone even
> remotely connected with its author for whom ymach shmo is an understatement.
> Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the US
> except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like.
The gift shop in the main mosque in Los Angeles sells it as well.
Herman Rubin
>Joel,
At least one of the Reform services has much of this.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Deptartment of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Cindy S.
"Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)"
news:at44l6$10n494$1...@ID-98143.news.dfncis.de...
> "Fiona" <fi...@intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:at4235$pe1$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
> >
>
street
> > book stores, are they?
>
> Mein Kampf was assigned class reading in some course or another at
Columbia
> when I was there - the edition sold in the university bookstore was
> accompanied by an explanation that made it clear that the work was printed
> for purposes of academic study and that no profits would go to anyone even
> remotely connected with its author for whom ymach shmo is an
understatement.
> Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the
US
> except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like. Needless to say, I would not
> buy a copy from such a source.
>
> IS
As a young teenager, I recall borrowing _Mein Kampf_ from my local public
library.
Best regards,
--Cindy S.
Joel Shurkin
Only if I have reason to think it is now dry and I want to use it.
There is nothing in Judaism requiring you to stack your brains at the
synagogue door. Religious cults do that. Hare Krishna in Hebrew is still
Hare Krishna.
Joel Shurkin
toichen wrote:
> "Jonathan J. Baker" <jjb...@panix.com> wrote in message news:<at2v2o$jn3$1...@reader1.panix.com>...
>
snip
> Thuggey is an inaccuracy. Represenstatives of some prominent rabbis
> went to the bookshops and informed the owners that those rabbis
> determined that book should not be sold in the shop. The owners
> decided to cease selling the book, as by selling banned books would
> antagonise their clientelle. Thus the person who reworked the book was
> left with several hundred copies. An unhappy sequel: A number of
> sefardi kabbalists decided to impose a pulsa denura on the person who
> reprinted the book, and he died a couple of months later. His widow
> frightened from what occurred now refuses to sell the book to anyone,
> and therefore the books remain piled up in the house. This I heard
> from an acquaintance of that family. I do not take any responsiblity
> for this story.
> toichen
So it was extortion.
j
PBP
> The ban was issues by many of the Ultra Orthodox leadership such as Rabbi
> Shmuel Auerbach, Rabbi Elyashiv and others. The ban was issued as they felt
> that there were some parts of the book that put Gedolim in negative light.
> believe that a compromised has been reached though where parts of the book
> will be removed, the book reprinted & the ban lifted.
At which point, some individual with the original book will post
the excised portions on this newsgroup. Purchasers of the revised
edition will then
be able to print it out as an appendix. Others will only read the
'offensive' material as that's what they were interested in in the
first place. All for free. Is technology wonderful?
Of course they would first have to get aroung the ban on the
internet....
Z
Rosenblatt <fre...@juno.com> writes
>"Creedmoor Chronicles wrote
>
>> Mein Kampf was assigned class reading in some course or another at Columbia
>> when I was there - the edition sold in the university bookstore was
>> accompanied by an explanation that made it clear that the work was printed
>> for purposes of academic study
>
>Arutz-7 mentioned a few years ago that Mein Kampf had been translated
>into Hebrew, again for the purposes of academic study. I don't think
>it caused any controversy.
>
disproportionately large section on Shilter. As this section is not in
the academic section and no learning institution locally has these books
on their reading list I find the academic interest argument lame.
>
>> and that no profits would go to anyone even
>> remotely connected with its author for whom ymach shmo is an understatement.
>> Protocols, which I always wanted to read, is not readily available in the US
>> except, I guess, from neo-Nazis and the like.
>
>The gift shop in the main mosque in Los Angeles sells it as well.
>
>>Needless to say, I would not
>> buy a copy from such a source.
>>
>> IS
--
Z
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