On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 13:02:49 +0000 (UTC), cindys
>On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 2:29:19 PM UTC-5, Fred Goldstein wrote:
>> Cruz belongs to a faction (Dominionist) that does not accept the
>> existence of Jews as such. Like some other extremist branches of
>> christianity, they believe that they can only be saved when everyone
>> left alive is a true believer.
>I don't find this surprising at all. I've never heard of "Dominionism" before, but I do believe that a fundamental (no pun intended) dogma of evangelical Christianity is that all Jews must accept Jesus in order to be "saved" and that any Jews who don't accept Jesus are going to hell.
I don't think this is limited to evangelical Xianity. I think, with
a couple exceptions I'll list, it's all of Xianity, even though some
mainstream Protestant churches don't talk about it much.
Exceptions probably include Xian Science and maybe Mormonism, because
they are way off the main Xian track and, if they spend time, they do
it trying to convince other Xians that they are too. (Not that
Mormons don't missionize. Every young man is supposed to devote two
years of his life to it and afaik almost all do. Most Americans can
recognize them from 100 yards. I've just never heard them threaten
Jews with hell. Hmm. I said "maybe" about Mormons, but now I think
they are not exceptions at all. They may not say it but I bet they
believe it. (One point omitted))
Seventh Day Adventists might meet part of that description but in my
uneducated opinion they are not really so far off the main Xian track.
Same for J's Witnesses. (I used to have some middle aged women come
to convert me on maybe Sunday afternoons. They were very pleasant and
I never challenged them on anything because they weren't annoying and
never got far enough to say anything annoying. Either I eventually
said I did want them to come back, or they just stopped. (I just now
got a phone call from Carmen at Cardholder's Services, so it seems
hard to believe the women from this church stopped coming for a full
20 years because of one request by me. ) I never pointed out the
mezuzah on my door frame because I thought that might make them target
Jews instead of avoid us.
Catholicism is another exception. It's 40 years, iirc, since the Pope
at the time said that iirc Jews have another path to "salvation". Of
course this contradicted 1600 years of church teaching and I suspect a
substantial percentage of Catholics never internalized it, and that
lots never even heard of it. If 25% of Catholics believe it I'd be
surprised and some of them probably notice the historical and
inter-denominational** inconsistency later. That's probably the
sort of thing that makes Mel Gibson and his father join the historical
wing (my term) of the Catholic Church. But I should mention that my
Jewish friend was an usher or maybe Best Man at his Italian friend's
Catholic wedding and the priest made antisemitic remarks during the
wedding ceremony. My friend's not going to complain or interrupt in
the middle of his good friend's wedding, plus he doesn't really give a
darn what the priest thinks., but he told me about it. .
I doubt very much if Russian Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, or any kind
of Eastern Orthodox are exceptions. They may not be evanglizing in
the US, but I'll bet that's part of their dogma.
That leaves the mainstream Protestant churches, few of which openly
participate in evangelizing Jews but many of which do give 10's of
millions of dollars a year in the USA alone to evangelical missionary
organization with innocent-sounding, non-explanatory names to do their
dirty work for them by evangelizing Jews in particular.
What makes all this tolerable is that most Xians, 50, 60, 70% or more,
my guess, don't give a darn. Many are the equivalent of 3-day-a-year
Jews. They like Xmas. Who who doesn't have a good reason not to
wouldn't like Xmas. They might go to church on Easter, where
antisemitic remarks used to be the norm in Catholic churches but afaik
are not anymore, but you get to dress nice, at least the females. And
they get married and have funerals at church. And that's it . Maybe
baptism. They don't care anything about the underlying theology and
that includes whatever grudges the church has against Jews.
It's also worth noting that in general, the mainstream Protestant
groups which make the least public effort to evangelize Jews and whose
clerics treat Judaism with the most respect, are, in general, the
groups which are the most anti-Israel.
And the evangelical groups which seem to be the most pro-Israel are
the ones who most disparage Judaism and anyone who isn't a Xian. (and
of course they are pro-Israel for reasons of their own, part of their
story that ends badly for Jews. Thank goodness it's a fantasy.)
So afaic, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of another.
>I also believe that many/most evangelicals feel anger toward Jews for refusing to convert.
Probably. I haven't got much 1st or 2nd hand stuff on this. Our
continued presence and our successes are a reminder that not everyone
believes what they do. Sure, the Hindus** don't believe it either,
but the Moslems consider Jesus a prophet. And we've known them
longest and had the most opportunities to be convinced, and we're not.
Darn, I'm getting angry myself, just putting myself in their shoes!
**I don't know how Taoism, Confucianism, etc., non-theist religions,
treat Xianity, but they live so far away it doesn't matter much. Jews
are the target group. Some evangelical groups give more "points" to
anyone who converts a Jew, and like selling cleaning products for
Amway or cosmetics for Avon or Fuller Brush, points are very very
important. Don't stop me from getting my points.
>I have experienced the following dynamic a few times in my life (once, many years ago on an airplane, some Christian guy from Iowa saw me eating a bagel and cream cheese and literally switched seats so he could evangelize to me): The evangelical meets the Jew (or other non-Christian). At first, everything is nicey-nicey because the Jew presumably hasn't heard the "good news" or doesn't understand it. Next, the missionizing begins. The Jew refuses to acquiesce and voila! the Christian feels angry and resentful toward the Jew. In another time, another place, this scenario is what leads to "Since the Jews won't convert, let's kill them." [For anyone who's wondering, airplane travel was looser back then, there were more empty seats, and I was young. If this happened now, I would complain to the flight attendant that the guy was following me].
Your airplane scenario reminds me of a contrasting story, and after
all my doom and gloom, a contrasting story might be nice.
I was at the airport in Dallas waiting for my plane to leave, after
visiting my brother when he lived there. Started talking to the guy
next to me for a while, a guy in his 40's. He lived in Las Vegas and
had just come to Dallas for a day, to finalize his divorce. A rotten
way to spend the day but at least the day was almost over, and the bad
We talked for 10 or 15 minutes and when his plane was boarding, he got
up and said Shalom and walked away. So of course I reviewed in my
head everything we'd talked about, everything I'd said, and as I
already knew, none of it had been about my being a Jew. So I went
after him and asked how he knew. Now I did have a full beard, and a
skilled observer will say that I look Jewish, but what this man said
was that I was "friendly and talkative".
>At any rate, you should have seen my son's friend's mother's fangs come out when I told her it was indeed wrong for Jews to accept Jesus. Until then, she had been all smiley, smiley, nicey, nicey, and telling me every five minutes how much she loved Israel and that Obama was an antisemite. And bear in mind, this woman had not been evangelizing to me because I would have cut her off in 5 seconds. The reason her fangs came out was because when she told me her messianic "Jewish" friends were upset that the traditional Jews wouldn't accept them, I told her I agreed with the traditional Jews.
If they want to be accepted, they should have acceptable beliefs.
My likely new dentist has his office in the same small office building
that some J4Jss group has its church. But I looked at their sign and
they're only there on Saturday, and he's frum and never there on
Shabbes, so they probably never see each other and neither will I. A