Netanyahu bows down
Fattush
Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
My heart is very heavy right now. I hope he knows what he is doing.
Is he calling the PA's bluff? Who knows.
sheldonlg
Netanyahu appears to have become a realist. Mark my words as to what
the ultimate outcome will be -- if a peace can be achieved.
--
Shelly
Dvora
Netanyahu bows down
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 10:11pm
(EDT+4) From: fatt...@yahoo.com (Fattush)
-------------------------------------------
AS MUCH AS ANY MAN CAN -- I BELIEVE BENJAMIN KNOWS WHAT NEEDS DONE ---
-
AND WITH THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY -- HE WILL SUCCEED --
-
THIS WILL NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT AGAINST ALL ODDS --- MIRACLES FROM
G-D SAVED ISRAEL WHEN MERE HUMANS COULD NOT --
-
ALMOST EVERYTHING BENJAMIN SAID IN THIS SPEECH IS TRUE TO ALL HIS
BELIEFS OF MANY YEARS ---
-
EASE YOUR HEART WITH BELIEF -- ISRAEL HAS SURVIVED TO THIS MOMENT
BECAUSE G-D HAS REACHED OUT TO HELP HER -
-
I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
I wish you many blessings - most of all -- safety and good health
--- Dvora
Micha Berger
They would NEVER accept a demiliterized state. Back before Hamas came
to rule half the population, they didn't accept a full state without
also having a "right of return" to ours. Now, with Fatah having to prove
they're not wimps, how could they settle for less?
Add to that that both Hamas and Fateh have the masses convinced they
need protection from Israel, and how could they sell a lack of military
to the PA street?
He is clearly putting out an offer they can't accept. Not even strong
enough to truly be caling their bluff, because they could point to the
lack of full statehood as their excuse for saying no.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger My thanks to Stephen Tyrone Johns a"h and his family.
mi...@aishdas.org May G-d grant them consolation.
http://www.aishdas.org Mr Johns lost his life protecting the very memory
Fax: (270) 514-1507 that keeps us safer from the hate that killed him.
BlackMonk
"Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
news:h148gc$vts$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
>
> He is clearly putting out an offer they can't accept. Not even strong
> enough to truly be caling their bluff, because they could point to the
> lack of full statehood as their excuse for saying no.
>
At this point, he's not negotiating with them, he's negotiating with Obama,
and I'm not sure Obama would have the same objections to a demilitarized
state. Doesn't the road map call for limitations on a Palestinian military,
at least temporarily? (On that subject, didn't Netanyahu accept the idea of
a Palestinian state, at least in principle, when he said he considered the
road map binding?)
The Saudis recently said they wanted Obama to impose a solution. I don't see
that happening, but if he does, it could very well be a case of "be careful
what you wish for." I have a feeling that an imposed solution would end up
with Palestine as a demilitarized state and no right of return, though most
or all of the settlements would be gone.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
> My heart is very heavy right now. I hope he knows what he is doing. Is
> he calling the PA's bluff? Who knows.
> --------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> AS MUCH AS ANY MAN CAN -- I BELIEVE BENJAMIN KNOWS WHAT NEEDS DONE ---
> -
> AND WITH THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY -- HE WILL SUCCEED --
> -
> THIS WILL NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT AGAINST ALL ODDS --- MIRACLES FROM
> G-D SAVED ISRAEL WHEN MERE HUMANS COULD NOT --
> -
> ALMOST EVERYTHING BENJAMIN SAID IN THIS SPEECH IS TRUE TO ALL HIS
> BELIEFS OF MANY YEARS ---
> -
> EASE YOUR HEART WITH BELIEF -- ISRAEL HAS SURVIVED TO THIS MOMENT
> BECAUSE G-D HAS REACHED OUT TO HELP HER -
> -
> I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
G-d bless you Dvora for your simple faith. That's what's needed at
all times and espescially now.
--
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Fattuchus
> Fattush <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
> > My heart is very heavy right now. I hope he knows what he is doing.
> > Is he calling the PA's bluff? Who knows.
>
> They would NEVER accept a demiliterized state.
I know. Bibi is a pretty good poker player, eh?
Smart move. Obama claims he is concerned about Israel's security. If
the US is concerned about Israeli security, then who can say no to
demilitarization? Makes perfect sense.
Back before Hamas came
> to rule half the population, they didn't accept a full state without
> also having a "right of return" to ours.
IMO Obama's Cairo speech suggested no right of return. He stressed
two states.
Now, with Fatah having to prove
> they're not wimps, how could they settle for less?
>
> Add to that that both Hamas and Fateh have the masses convinced they
> need protection from Israel, and how could they sell a lack of military
> to the PA street?
Not to mention Bibi announcing Jerusalem will be undivided.
>
> He is clearly putting out an offer they can't accept. Not even strong
> enough to truly be caling their bluff, because they could point to the
> lack of full statehood as their excuse for saying no.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
IMO Bibi proposed full statehood. I was it not full statehood?
Micha Berger
>> He is clearly putting out an offer they can't accept. Not even strong
>> enough to truly be caling their bluff, because they could point to the
>> lack of full statehood as their excuse for saying no.
> IMO Bibi proposed full statehood. I was it not full statehood?
Full statehood without a military isn't full statehood.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
Fattuchus
> Netanyahu bows down
>
> Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 10:11pm
> Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
> My heart is very heavy right now. I hope he knows what he is doing. Is
> he calling the PA's bluff? Who knows.
> --------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> AS MUCH AS ANY MAN CAN -- I BELIEVE BENJAMIN KNOWS WHAT NEEDS DONE ---
> -
> AND WITH THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY -- HE WILL SUCCEED --
> -
> THIS WILL NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT AGAINST ALL ODDS --- MIRACLES FROM
> G-D SAVED ISRAEL WHEN MERE HUMANS COULD NOT --
> -
> ALMOST EVERYTHING BENJAMIN SAID IN THIS SPEECH IS TRUE TO ALL HIS
> BELIEFS OF MANY YEARS ---
> -
> EASE YOUR HEART WITH BELIEF -- ISRAEL HAS SURVIVED TO THIS MOMENT
> BECAUSE G-D HAS REACHED OUT TO HELP HER -
> -
> I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
Oh, I hope so Dvora. I sincerely hope so.
Fattuchus
> "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
>
> news:h148gc$vts$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
>
>
>
> > He is clearly putting out an offer they can't accept. Not even strong
> > enough to truly be caling their bluff, because they could point to the
> > lack of full statehood as their excuse for saying no.
>
> At this point, he's not negotiating with them, he's negotiating with Obama,
One of the most inciteful posts you ever made.
> and I'm not sure Obama would have the same objections to a demilitarized
> state.
Why not? He wants peace and security for Israel, right? (cough cough)
Doesn't the road map call for limitations on a Palestinian military,
> at least temporarily? (On that subject, didn't Netanyahu accept the idea of
> a Palestinian state, at least in principle, when he said he considered the
> road map binding?)
IMO, Israel should have the right to say "To hell with the roadmap."
The "Palestinians" launch over 3000 rockets into Israel and engage in
hundreds of terrorist attacks against innocents, and people still
think the roadmap should be alive? What a joke.
>
> The Saudis recently said they wanted Obama to impose a solution. I don't see
> that happening, but if he does, it could very well be a case of "be careful
> what you wish for." I have a feeling that an imposed solution would end up
> with Palestine as a demilitarized state and no right of return, though most
> or all of the settlements would be gone.
IMO Obama's Cairo speech which calls for two states and tells the
Arabs to accept Israel means no right of return for the Arabs.
I am pleased that Bibi's speech talks about the Arabs understanding
that Israel is a JEWISH state.
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Jun-2009, Fattush <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is he calling the PA's bluff? Who knows.
I would have thought it was obvious, but yes, I could be wrong.
Susan
Lee Ratner
supporters of Israel must "bear the unbearable" and recognize that a
Palestinian state must come into existence for Israel to survive. In
an ideal world, the State of Israel and Eretz Israel would be co-
exsistant, that is Israel would also have sovereignty over the West
Bank and Gaza. This is not an ideal world. There are millions of
Palestinians, and they are a real Arab sub-group like it or not, and
Israel can not rule over them forever without becoming something
completely evil and contradictory towards Jewish thought. This means
that the Jewish state is going to loose sovereignty over cities that
are historically important to the Jewish nation. By shedding ourselves
of the West Bank, we shed ourselves of millions of non-Jews that would
turn the demographics against us. Its like Malaysia sheddding
Singapore to ensure positive demographics for the Malay.
Netanyahu is enough of a realist to know this is true. He is a
fierce nationalist but knows that sometimes saving a nation requires
great sacrafice. His attitude is very much like De Gaulle's attitude
in the Algerian War, which is a very similar situation to the Israeli-
Palestinian conflict except France had fewer historical/cultural
attachements to Algeria than Israel has to the West Bank/Gaza. What
Netanyahu is trying to do is create a Palestine state that can not be
used to threaten Israel. Some of his proposals are more workable than
others. The most important concession is that Palestine recognize
Israel as a Jewish state and give up the Palestinian right of return.
This is non-negotiable. The requirement that Palestine not form
relations with states hostile to Israel makes good sense and will
force Muslim states to recognize Israel and make peace with it if they
want to recognize Palestine. The demand for a demilitirized Palestine
is good but not really workable or realistic.
Dvora
Re: Netanyahu bows down
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 6:05am
(EDT+4) From: mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
fatt...@yahoo.com (Fattush)
Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians My heart is very heavy
right now. I hope he knows what he is doing. Is he calling the PA's
bluff? Who knows.
--------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
AS MUCH AS ANY MAN CAN -- I BELIEVE BENJAMIN KNOWS WHAT NEEDS DONE ---
-
AND WITH THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY -- HE WILL SUCCEED --
-
THIS WILL NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT AGAINST ALL ODDS --- MIRACLES FROM
G-D SAVED ISRAEL WHEN MERE HUMANS COULD NOT --
-
ALMOST EVERYTHING BENJAMIN SAID IN THIS SPEECH IS TRUE TO ALL HIS
BELIEFS OF MANY YEARS ---
-
EASE YOUR HEART WITH BELIEF -- ISRAEL HAS SURVIVED TO THIS MOMENT
BECAUSE G-D HAS REACHED OUT TO HELP HER -
-
I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
G-d bless you Dvora for your simple faith. That's what's needed at all
times and espescially now.
------------------
THANK YOU MOSHE --- I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY OTHER RELIGIOUS JEWS - EVEN
RABBI'S ---
-
THAT BECAUSE I WAS NEVER REALLY EDUCATED - MY FAITH IS LIKE THAT OF A
CHILD ---
-
I ALWAYS TOOK THAT AS A COMPLIMENT ---
-
------------------------------
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue. May
Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah btoch
sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew
University
I wish you many blessings - most of all -- safety and good health
--- Dvora
Dvora
Re: Netanyahu bows down
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 1:58pm
(EDT+4) From: LBRa...@gmail.com (Lee Ratner)
Fattush wrote:
Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
My heart is very heavy right now. I hope he knows what he is doing.
Is he calling the PA's bluff? Who knows.
Netanyahu appears to have become a realist. Mark my words as to what
the ultimate outcome will be -- if a peace can be achieved.
I agree with you Shelly. Realistically,
Israelis and the supporters of Israel must "bear the unbearable" and
recognize that a Palestinian state must come into existence for Israel
to survive. In an ideal world, the State of Israel and Eretz Israel
would be co- exsistant, that is Israel would also have sovereignty over
the West Bank and Gaza. This is not an ideal world. There are millions
of Palestinians, and they are a real Arab sub-group like it or not, and
Israel can not rule over them forever without becoming something
completely evil and contradictory towards Jewish thought. This means
that the Jewish state is going to loose sovereignty over cities that are
historically important to the Jewish nation. By shedding ourselves of
the West Bank, we shed ourselves of millions of non-Jews that would turn
the demographics against us. Its like Malaysia sheddding Singapore to
ensure positive demographics for the Malay.
--- THANK YOU FOR THIS PHRASE ---
Netanyahu is enough of a
realist to know this is true. He is a fierce nationalist but knows that
sometimes saving a nation requires great sacrafice.
----------------------------------------------------------------- I KNOW
YOU REALZE THIS IS TH BEGINING --- WE ARE NO WHERE NEAR THE MIDDLE OR
THE END ---
---------------------------------------------------------
His attitude is very much like De Gaulle's attitude in the Algerian War,
which is a very similar situation to the Israeli- Palestinian conflict
except France had fewer historical/cultural attachements to Algeria than
Israel has to the West Bank/Gaza.
---
What Netanyahu is trying to do is create a Palestine state that can not
be used to threaten Israel. Some of his proposals are more workable than
others. The most important concession is that Palestine recognize Israel
as a Jewish state and give up the Palestinian right of return. This is
non-negotiable. The requirement that Palestine not form relations with
states hostile to Israel makes good sense and will force Muslim states
to recognize Israel and make peace with it if they want to recognize
Palestine.
--------------------------------- EVERYTHING MUST BEGIN SOMEWHERE ---
WITH THE TRACK RECORD OF THE SO CALLED PALESTINIANS -- WE MAY NEVR REACH
THE POINT WHERE DEMILITITARIZATION IS EVEN AN ISSUE
----------------------------------------
The demand for a demilitirized Palestine is good but not really workable
or realistic.
I wish you many blessings - most of all -- safety and good health
--- Dvora
sheldonlg
Yes, we agree. I think you left out one important point. I don't think
Israelis would stand for anything but a united Jerusalem and any attempt
to negotiate otherwise would mean a disintegration of the government.
So, I think that this is also non-negotiable. However, access to to the
Mosque, and treating it as foreign soil -- much like an embassy is
treated -- is a distinct possibility.
--
Shelly
Dvora
Re: Netanyahu bows down
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 10:49am
(EDT+4) From: fatt...@yahoo.com (Fattuchus)
Netanyahu bows down
Group: soc.culture.jewish.moderated Date: Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 10:11pm
(EDT+4) From: fattuc...@yahoo.com (Fattush) Reversing prior positions,
he calls for a demilitarized Arab
state:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians My heart is very
heavy right now. I hope he knows what he is doing. Is he calling the
PA's bluff? Who knows.
--------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
AS MUCH AS ANY MAN CAN -- I BELIEVE BENJAMIN KNOWS WHAT NEEDS DONE ---
-
AND WITH THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY -- HE WILL SUCCEED --
-
THIS WILL NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT AGAINST ALL ODDS --- MIRACLES FROM
G-D SAVED ISRAEL WHEN MERE HUMANS COULD NOT --
-
ALMOST EVERYTHING BENJAMIN SAID IN THIS SPEECH IS TRUE TO ALL HIS
BELIEFS OF MANY YEARS ---
-
EASE YOUR HEART WITH BELIEF -- ISRAEL HAS SURVIVED TO THIS MOMENT
BECAUSE G-D HAS REACHED OUT TO HELP HER -
-
I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
Oh, I hope so Dvora. I sincerely hope so.
I HOPE SO TOO -- WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING ---
--------------------------------------------------------------------
chsw
Israel pretty much treats the mosques on the Mount as a foreign
enclave, even though the Waqf has consistently violated terms of
its post-Six Day War agreement with Israel.
chsw
sheldonlg
I know Israel does, and they should be highly praised for that. However,
that is de-facto. I meant that it would be part of a peace treaty, and
thus du-jure.
--
Shelly
Micha Berger
> IMO, Israel should have the right to say "To hell with the roadmap."
> The "Palestinians" launch over 3000 rockets into Israel and engage in
> hundreds of terrorist attacks against innocents, and people still
> think the roadmap should be alive? What a joke.
Over 8000. Including two a couple of hours after Netanyahu's speech.
A Kassam hit the beach at Ashkelon yesterday. And a home made rocket
landed in the desert in the Sedot Negev (Negev Fields?) area, just east
of Gaza. Fortunately, no injuries or property damage from either.
But it's the settlements that are the major roadbloack to peace. Not the
actual violence... To quote the one who first articulated the relevent
doctrine (via wikipedia):
All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true in
itself--that in the big lie (Grosse Luege) there is always a certain
force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always
more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature
than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity
of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than
the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little
matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It
would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths,
and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to
distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove
this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will
still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be
some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves
traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which
is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire
together in the art of lying.
- Hitler y"sh, Mein Kampf, vol 1 ch. 10
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Jun-2009, Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 7:35�pm, sheldonlg <sheldo...@giganews.com> wrote:
> > Fattush wrote:
> > > Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
> >
> > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
> >
> > > My heart is very heavy right now. �I hope he knows what he is doing.
> > > Is he calling the PA's bluff? �Who knows.
> >
> > Netanyahu appears to have become a realist. �Mark my words as to what
> > the ultimate outcome will be -- if a peace can be achieved.
> >
> I agree with you Shelly. Realistically, Israelis and the
> supporters of Israel must "bear the unbearable" and recognize that a
> Palestinian state must come into existence for Israel to survive.
Sure. But WHAT sort of "state" - that's the rub.
> In
> an ideal world, the State of Israel and Eretz Israel would be co-
> exsistant, that is Israel would also have sovereignty over the West
> Bank and Gaza. This is not an ideal world. There are millions of
> Palestinians, and they are a real Arab sub-group like it or not, and
> Israel can not rule over them forever without becoming something
> completely evil and contradictory towards Jewish thought.
I think this is an exaggeration. But I will certainly say that
I bet Israel would rather not be bothered with them.
> This means
> that the Jewish state is going to loose sovereignty over cities that
> are historically important to the Jewish nation. By shedding ourselves
> of the West Bank, we shed ourselves of millions of non-Jews that would
> turn the demographics against us. Its like Malaysia sheddding
> Singapore to ensure positive demographics for the Malay.
>
> Netanyahu is enough of a realist to know this is true. He is a
> fierce nationalist but knows that sometimes saving a nation requires
> great sacrafice. His attitude is very much like De Gaulle's attitude
> in the Algerian War, which is a very similar situation to the Israeli-
> Palestinian conflict except France had fewer historical/cultural
> attachements to Algeria than Israel has to the West Bank/Gaza. What
> Netanyahu is trying to do is create a Palestine state that can not be
> used to threaten Israel.
Even if his needs are being seen as delaying tactics.
All I can say is "Gee, I guess it really IS the other side that's
intrasingent!"
> Some of his proposals are more workable than
> others. The most important concession is that Palestine recognize
> Israel as a Jewish state and give up the Palestinian right of return.
> This is non-negotiable. The requirement that Palestine not form
> relations with states hostile to Israel makes good sense and will
> force Muslim states to recognize Israel and make peace with it if they
> want to recognize Palestine. The demand for a demilitirized Palestine
> is good but not really workable or realistic.
As long as the world promises to allow them to take
responsibility for their actions.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Jun-2009, Fattuchus <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 11:47�pm, "BlackMonk" <BlackM...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
> >
> > news:h148gc$vts$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
> >
> >
> >
> > > He is clearly putting out an offer they can't accept. Not even strong
> > > enough to truly be caling their bluff, because they could point to the
> > > lack of full statehood as their excuse for saying no.
> >
> > At this point, he's not negotiating with them, he's negotiating with
> > Obama,
>
>
> One of the most inciteful posts you ever made.
Before I answer, is this the exact spelling you meant to use?
Susan
schotness
hands. I tend to agree with Sheldon & I think a lot of american/uk
jews & israelis. We cant keep judah & samaria without unrelenting
blood & tears. but also the palestinians have to accept the painful
fact that the refugees are going nowhere but palestine, & if it
happens it will not be a stepping stone to more demands, demanded
through violence & terrorism further down the road. The IDF & I think
the americans wont allow that, primary the IDF, but I think Obama is
committed to that too. Agreements on Jerusalem, Hebron & the
settlements are gonna be painful to both sides I fear.
Fattuchus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry, sorry, sorry. I think I meant "insightful" as in thoughtful,
well thought out. Oy! (slaps head)
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Jun-2009, Fattuchus <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > At this point, he's not negotiating with them, he's negotiating with
> > > > Obama,
> >
> > > One of the most inciteful posts you ever made.
> >
> > Before I answer, is this the exact spelling you meant to use?
> >
> > Susan- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Sorry, sorry, sorry. I think I meant "insightful" as in thoughtful,
> well thought out. Oy! (slaps head)
I was thinking that you either meant "incite to dicsussion"
or "insightful" as in "well-spotted".
Either way, I knew you didn't mean anything negative.
Susan
BlackMonk
"Fattuchus" <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:26a5ce9d-a36b-4c46...@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> IMO Obama's Cairo speech suggested no right of return. He stressed
two states.
The statement released after Netanyahu's speech referred to the "Jewish
state of Israel." That's the third time in the past few weeks that the Obama
administration has used the phrase "Jewish state." Once could be a poor
choice of words, but three times so close together sounds like an official
(though probably unspoken) policy.
mm
Berger) wrote:
>Fattuchus <fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> IMO, Israel should have the right to say "To hell with the roadmap."
>> The "Palestinians" launch over 3000 rockets into Israel and engage in
>> hundreds of terrorist attacks against innocents, and people still
>> think the roadmap should be alive? What a joke.
>
>Over 8000. Including two a couple of hours after Netanyahu's speech.
I think it is over 3000 rockets and over 8000 rockets and mortars.
When I quote a figure, I use the second one, which to me sounds worse
than over 3000 rockets.
fla...@verizon.net
It's facts like this which scare me about the world at large.
Susan
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Shalomf...@webtv.net (Dvora) writes:
> fatt...@yahoo.com (Fattush)
>
> Reversing prior positions, he calls for a demilitarized Arab state:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians My heart is very heavy
> right now. I hope he knows what he is doing. Is he calling the PA's
> bluff? Who knows.
> --------------------------------------
> -
> AND WITH THE HELP OF THE ALMIGHTY -- HE WILL SUCCEED --
> -
> THIS WILL NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THAT AGAINST ALL ODDS --- MIRACLES FROM
> G-D SAVED ISRAEL WHEN MERE HUMANS COULD NOT --
> -
> ALMOST EVERYTHING BENJAMIN SAID IN THIS SPEECH IS TRUE TO ALL HIS
> BELIEFS OF MANY YEARS ---
> -
> EASE YOUR HEART WITH BELIEF -- ISRAEL HAS SURVIVED TO THIS MOMENT
> BECAUSE G-D HAS REACHED OUT TO HELP HER -
> -
> I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
>
> G-d bless you Dvora for your simple faith. That's what's needed at all
> times and espescially now.
> -----------------------------
> RABBI'S ---
> -
> THAT BECAUSE I WAS NEVER REALLY EDUCATED - MY FAITH IS LIKE THAT
> OF A CHILD ---
> -
> I ALWAYS TOOK THAT AS A COMPLIMENT ---
It _absolutely_ IS a compliment. I wish I could say it about myself.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
snip
>> Some of his proposals are more workable than
>> others. The most important concession is that Palestine recognize
>> Israel as a Jewish state and give up the Palestinian right of return.
>> This is non-negotiable. The requirement that Palestine not form
>> relations with states hostile to Israel makes good sense and will
>> force Muslim states to recognize Israel and make peace with it if they
>> want to recognize Palestine. The demand for a demilitirized Palestine
>> is good but not really workable or realistic.
>
> As long as the world promises to allow them to take
> responsibility for their actions.
That is a _very_ important point. As of now, they take _no_
responsibility ofr _anything_ they do. They just call themselves
"victims" and the world lets them get away with it. There is a
_reason_ they don't really want statehood. It comes with
responsibility.
Nick Cramer
> fatt...@yahoo.com (Fattush)
> [ . . . ]
> I HAVE SUCH A STRONG BELIEF HE WILL DO SO NOW ---
> G-d bless you Dvora for your simple faith. That's what's needed at all
> times and espescially now.
> THANK YOU MOSHE --- I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY OTHER RELIGIOUS JEWS - EVEN
> RABBI'S ---
> -
> THAT BECAUSE I WAS NEVER REALLY EDUCATED - MY FAITH IS LIKE THAT OF A
> CHILD ---
> -
> I ALWAYS TOOK THAT AS A COMPLIMENT ---
To me, Dvora, one of your most endearing qualities is your artlessness,
your lack of pretension. You are childlike, but far from being childish.
Zay gesunt.
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
schotness
> The statement released after Netanyahu's speech referred to the "Jewish
> state of Israel." That's the third time in the past few weeks that the Obama
> administration has used the phrase "Jewish state." Once could be a poor
> choice of words, but three times so close together sounds like an official
> (though probably unspoken) policy.
Sorry but isnt that what Nethanyu wants? symantics aside whats the
point of Israel if its not a jewish state?
Micha Berger
> Zay gesunt.
... which brings me to my sitting at the edge of my seat, awaiting the
promised medical results...
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Live as if you were living already for the
mi...@aishdas.org second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning
Micha Berger
Aren't we speaking of the US's statement released after Netanyahu's
speech? Thus showing that Obama doesn't currently intend to promote a
"right of return" to anything but the new PA country.
Nick Cramer
> Nick Cramer <n_cram...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > Zay gesunt.
>
> ... which brings me to my sitting at the edge of my seat, awaiting the
> promised medical results...
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
Hi Micha, One of the few Yiddish expressions I learned from my Jewish
classmates in high school. It's always had a positive feel to me.
If you slip off the edge of your seat, the promised medical result might be
a pain in the butt! ;-D
Please tell me what "Tir'u baTov" means. I believe 'tov' means good or
joyous, as in 'mazal tov'. My friend's sister is named Tova.
BlackMonk
> schotness <scho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The statement released after Netanyahu's speech referred to the "Jewish
>>> state of Israel." That's the third time in the past few weeks that the
>>> Obama
>>> administration has used the phrase "Jewish state." Once could be a poor
>>> choice of words, but three times so close together sounds like an
>>> official
>>> (though probably unspoken) policy.
>
>> Sorry but isnt that what Nethanyu wants? symantics aside whats the
>> point of Israel if its not a jewish state?
>
> Aren't we speaking of the US's statement released after Netanyahu's
> speech? Thus showing that Obama doesn't currently intend to promote a
> "right of return" to anything but the new PA country.
>
From the Jerusalem Post, today, quoting a State Department spokesman :
"When it came to the prime minister's stipulation that Palestinians
recognize Israel as a Jewish state, Kelly said, "You know that yesterday
[Obama] said he was committed to the Jewish state of Israel. Senator
Mitchell said it. And I'll just let it stand at that."
And asked about demilitarization, he responded, "Israel needs to have its
security concerns taken very seriously and worked out." "
Micha Berger
> Please tell me what "Tir'u baTov" means. I believe 'tov' means good or
> joyous, as in 'mazal tov'. My friend's sister is named Tova.
In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
see the good". It was a greeting that a student of R' Shelomo Wolbe,
a mussar master who passed away in the 1990s, said his mentor would use.
I like the ambiguity, because it describes quite well how finding good
happens -- it's part what G-d shows you, and part what you look for.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Nick Cramer <n_cram...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Zay gesunt.
>
> ... which brings me to my sitting at the edge of my seat, awaiting
> the promised medical results...
What _are_ you talking baout?
mm
<fatt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>Not to mention Bibi announcing Jerusalem will be undivided.
For those who want to see his speech last Sunday, it's here
http://www.c-span.org/Listen/C-SPAN-Radio_rm.aspx
When the radio starts to play press Pause ||
Or maybe you can find it here without radio
Micha Berger
> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) writes:
>> Nick Cramer <n_cram...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> Zay gesunt.
>> ... which brings me to my sitting at the edge of my seat, awaiting
>> the promised medical results...
> What _are_ you talking baout?
Nick replied "Zay gezunt" to Dvora, and I am talking about her medicah
testing. At the time, the results weren't posted.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> Nick Cramer <n_cram...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> Please tell me what "Tir'u baTov" means. I believe 'tov' means good or
>> joyous, as in 'mazal tov'. My friend's sister is named Tova.
>
> In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
> imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an adjective].
(look at the good in others). ^^^
"TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not Modern
Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic attempt
to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew University
burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes to calm down.
> see the good". It was a greeting that a student of R' Shelomo Wolbe,
> a mussar master who passed away in the 1990s, said his mentor would use.
>
That just shows that Wolbe didn't have a command of gramatically correct
Hebrew.
> I like the ambiguity, because it describes quite well how finding good
> happens -- it's part what G-d shows you, and part what you look for.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
Josh
Steve Goldfarb
>Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an adjective].
>(look at the good in others). ^^^
>"TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not Modern
>Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic attempt
>to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew University
>burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes to calm down.
What do you want, good grammar or good taste?
--s
--
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Hey, I _remember_ that one!
Don Levey
Sorry, Charlie...
--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) wrote:
>> Nick Cramer <n_cram...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> > Zay gesunt.
>>
>> ... which brings me to my sitting at the edge of my seat, awaiting the
>> promised medical results...
>>
>> Tir'u baTov!
>> -Micha
>
> Hi Micha, One of the few Yiddish expressions I learned from my Jewish
> classmates in high school. It's always had a positive feel to me.
>
> If you slip off the edge of your seat, the promised medical result might be
> a pain in the butt! ;-D
>
> Please tell me what "Tir'u baTov" means. I believe 'tov' means good or
"Tir'u baTov' is appalling Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew winces
when he/she sees it in writing. And I'm being polite.
josh
Micha Berger
>> In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
>> imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
> Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an adjective].
> (look at the good in others). ^^^
That's right, R Wolbe didn't know his Hebrew. We're going through this
again...
Betuv is "the good of". "The good" in general would still be "batov".
And thus if "tir'u betuv-X" is proper grammar, "tir'u batov" is equally
correct. Nothing you said so far justifies the following:
> "TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not Modern
> Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic attempt
> to write Hebrew...
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Between stimulus & response, there is a space.
mi...@aishdas.org In that space is our power to choose our
http://www.aishdas.org response. In our response lies our growth
Fax: (270) 514-1507 and our freedom. - Victor Frankl, (MSfM)
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
Ask Charlie the Tuna :-)
Josh
>
> --s
> --
>
Steve Goldfarb
>bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>> In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
>>> imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
>> Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an adjective].
>> (look at the good in others). ^^^
>That's right, R Wolbe didn't know his Hebrew. We're going through this
>again...
>Betuv is "the good of". "The good" in general would still be "batov".
>And thus if "tir'u betuv-X" is proper grammar, "tir'u batov" is equally
>correct. Nothing you said so far justifies the following:
My comment before, about "what do you want good grammar or good taste,"
wasn't really a joke - it sounds like "Tir'u B'tov" isn't meant to be
"good grammar" per se, it's like an advertising slogan where an unusual or
even incorrect usage is meant to highlight a key feature of the message.
E.g., if I were to use "Be the good" as my sig - it's not grammatically
correct but that would be precisely the point, I'd be suggesting that
people read it, get stopped by the unusual structure, and wonder "what
could he mean by that? what the difference between simply being good, and
being "THE" good?" or whatever. (that was just an example of course)
--s
--
sheldonlg
> In <h1avt8$ect$1...@harrier.steinthal.us> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) writes:
>
>> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>>> In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
>>>> imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
>
>>> Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an adjective].
>>> (look at the good in others). ^^^
>
>> That's right, R Wolbe didn't know his Hebrew. We're going through this
>> again...
>
>> Betuv is "the good of". "The good" in general would still be "batov".
>> And thus if "tir'u betuv-X" is proper grammar, "tir'u batov" is equally
>> correct. Nothing you said so far justifies the following:
>
> My comment before, about "what do you want good grammar or good taste,"
> wasn't really a joke - it sounds like "Tir'u B'tov" isn't meant to be
> "good grammar" per se, it's like an advertising slogan where an unusual or
> even incorrect usage is meant to highlight a key feature of the message.
Like "Eating good in the neighborhood"?
Nick Cramer
> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) writes:
> > Nick Cramer <n_cram...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> Please tell me what "Tir'u baTov" means. I believe 'tov' means good or
> >> joyous, as in 'mazal tov'. My friend's sister is named Tova.
> >
> > In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
> > imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
>
> Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an
> adjective]. (look at the good in others). ^^^
>
> "TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not
> Modern Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic
> attempt to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew
> University burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes to
> calm down.
>
> > see the good". It was a greeting that a student of R' Shelomo Wolbe,
> > a mussar master who passed away in the 1990s, said his mentor would
> > use.
> That just shows that Wolbe didn't have a command of gramatically correct
> Hebrew.
>
> > I like the ambiguity, because it describes quite well how finding good
> > happens -- it's part what G-d shows you, and part what you look for.
> >
> > Tir'u baTov!
Thanks, Josh. That resonates well with me.
Nick Cramer
> "Steve Goldfarb" <s...@panix.com> writes:
> > In <h1ar06$2vc$1...@harrier.steinthal.us> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
> >
> >>Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an
> >>adjective]. (look at the good in others). ^^^
> >
> >
> >>"TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not
> >>Modern Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic
> >>attempt to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew
> >>University burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes
> >>to calm down.
> >
> > What do you want, good grammar or good taste?
>
> Ask Charlie the Tuna :-)
Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should," which
should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> "Steve Goldfarb" <s...@panix.com> writes:
>> > In <h1ar06$2vc$1...@harrier.steinthal.us> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>> >
>> >>Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an
>> >>adjective]. (look at the good in others). ^^^
>> >
>> >
>> >>"TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not
>> >>Modern Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic
>> >>attempt to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew
>> >>University burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes
>> >>to calm down.
>> >
>> > What do you want, good grammar or good taste?
>>
>> Ask Charlie the Tuna :-)
>
> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should," which
> should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
"had oughta" :-)
Josh
Art Werschulz
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should," which
>> should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
>
> And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
> "had oughta" :-)
> Josh
That would be Buddy Ebsen in his persona of Jed Clampett, on "The
Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
--
Art Werschulz (agw STRUDEL comcast.net)
.... insert clever quote here ...
sheldonlg
> Hi.
>
> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>
>>> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should," which
>>> should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
>> And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
>> "had oughta" :-)
>> Josh
>
> That would be Buddy Ebsen in his persona of Jed Clampett, on "The
> Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
>
Me too. When it first appeared, I couldn't believe they would put on
such stupidity. Then I was even more amazed when it became popular.
--
Shelly
chsw
> Hi.
>
> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>
>>> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should," which
>>> should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
>> And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
>> "had oughta" :-)
>> Josh
>
> That would be Buddy Ebsen in his persona of Jed Clampett, on "The
> Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
>
Good opening theme composed and played by two yidden, Flatt and
Scruggs.
chsw
Susan S
<chsw...@yahoo.com>:
That's a joke, right?
Susan Silberstein
chsw
No. Jews have been performing bluegrass music for a very long
time. Of course, two very well known bluegrass performers, David
Bromberg and Alison Krauss, keep flip-flopping on whether they
practice Judaism, born-again protestantism, Buddhism or what-not.
I think that in their spiritual lives they are very confused
people.
chsw
Art Werschulz
sheldonlg <shel...@giganews.com> writes:
>> That would be Buddy Ebsen in his persona of Jed Clampett, on "The
>> Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
>
> Me too. When it first appeared, I couldn't believe they would put on
> such stupidity. Then I was even more amazed when it became popular.
Since I come from (the non-backwoods of) I found said show to especially
cringe-worthy.
Shabbat shalom.
Susan S
You misunderstand. Flatt and Scruggs not Jewish, that is my point.
Susan Silberstein
Fattuchus
> In soc.culture.jewish.moderated I read this message from chsw
>
>
>
>
>
> >Susan S wrote:
> >> In soc.culture.jewish.moderated I read this message from chsw
>
> >>> Art Werschulz wrote:
> >>>> Hi.
>
> >>>> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>
> >>>>>> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should," which
> >>>>>> should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
> >>>>> And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
> >>>>> "had oughta" :-)
> >>>>> Josh
> >>>> That would be Buddy Ebsen in his persona of Jed Clampett, on "The
> >>>> Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
>
> >>> Good opening theme composed and played by two yidden, Flatt and
> >>> Scruggs.
>
> >>> chsw
>
> >> That's a joke, right?
>
> >> Susan Silberstein
>
> >No. Jews have been performing bluegrass music for a very long
> >time. Of course, two very well known bluegrass performers, David
> >Bromberg and Alison Krauss, keep flip-flopping on whether they
> >practice Judaism, born-again protestantism, Buddhism or what-not.
> > I think that in their spiritual lives they are very confused
> >people.
>
> You misunderstand. Flatt and Scruggs not Jewish, that is my point.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've been told Netanyahu will be on Meet the Press this Sunday morning.
mm
<s...@panix.com> wrote:
>In <h1avt8$ect$1...@harrier.steinthal.us> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) writes:
>
>>bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>>> In biblical Hebrew (it doesn't work in modern grammar) it's either the
>>>> imperative "Look to the good" (like: count your blessings) or "may you
>
>>> Wrong! The correct usage should be TIR'U B'TUV HA'ADAM [tuv as an adjective].
>>> (look at the good in others). ^^^
>
>>That's right, R Wolbe didn't know his Hebrew. We're going through this
>>again...
>
>>Betuv is "the good of". "The good" in general would still be "batov".
>>And thus if "tir'u betuv-X" is proper grammar, "tir'u batov" is equally
>>correct. Nothing you said so far justifies the following:
>
>My comment before, about "what do you want good grammar or good taste,"
>wasn't really a joke - it sounds like "Tir'u B'tov" isn't meant to be
>"good grammar" per se,
Why do you think it sounds like it isn't meant to be good grammar, per
se or otherwise? Micha thinks it is good grammar, and his explanation
makes sense to me.
Could it be good grammar even though Micha didn't mean it to be? :)
mm
They had it on late-night reruns a couple years ago here, and it was
still good. I thought it was so well done and very funny.
Some day I hope to get me a cement pond.
Fattuchus
> I think hes done well, throwing the ball back into the palestinian,
> hands. I tend to agree with Sheldon & I think a lot of american/uk
> jews & israelis. We cant keep judah & samaria without unrelenting
> blood & tears. but also the palestinians have to accept the painful
> fact that the refugees are going nowhere but palestine, & if it
> happens it will not be a stepping stone to more demands, demanded
> through violence & terrorism further down the road. The IDF & I think
> the americans wont allow that, primary the IDF, but I think Obama is
> committed to that too. Agreements on Jerusalem, Hebron & the
> settlements are gonna be painful to both sides I fear.
If Israel does surrender Judea and Samaria, something must be done to
protect Jewish holy areas and to allow Jews access to those areas
important in Jewish history.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Art Werschulz wrote:
>> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>>
>>>> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should,"
>>>> which should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
>
>>> And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
>>> "had oughta" :-)
>>
>> Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
>
> Me too. When it first appeared, I couldn't believe they would put on
> such stupidity. Then I was even more amazed when it became popular.
Hmm, so maybe we shouldn't take what's "popular" as an indication
of what's "right". Was it Samuel Johnsion who said "The masses are
asses"?
sheldonlg
Agreed.
sheldonlg
> sheldonlg <shel...@giganews.com> writes:
>> Art Werschulz wrote:
>>> bac...@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>>>
>>>>> Actually, it was, "Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should,"
>>>>> which should be, ". . . AS a cigarette should."
>>>> And there was a version in the mid-1960's of a hillbilly saying
>>>> "had oughta" :-)
>>> That would be Buddy Ebsen in his persona of Jed Clampett, on "The
>>> Beverly Hillbillies", a show that makes me cringe even to this day.
>> Me too. When it first appeared, I couldn't believe they would put on
>> such stupidity. Then I was even more amazed when it became popular.
>
> Hmm, so maybe we shouldn't take what's "popular" as an indication
> of what's "right". Was it Samuel Johnsion who said "The masses are
> asses"?
>
Neither should we take it as an indication that it is "wrong".
meir b.
> "TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not Modern
> Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic attempt
> to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew University
> burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes to calm down.
Now that she has calmed down, could you please ask her why it's
proper to say "tir'u bara," but it's wrong to say "tir'u batov"? And
should she say that "tir'u bara" is also incorrect, kindly refer her
to Bereishit 44:34, wherein Yehuda remarks, "pen ereh bara" (lest I
see the bad).
Meir
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> On Jun 17, 9:27=A0am, bac...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:
>
>> "TIR'U BATOV" is utter gibberish. It's not biblical Hebrew, it's not Mode=
> rn
>> Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic attempt
>> to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew University
>> burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes to calm down.
>
> Now that she has calmed down, could you please ask her why it's
> proper to say "tir'u bara," but it's wrong to say "tir'u batov"? And
> should she say that "tir'u bara" is also incorrect, kindly refer her
> to Bereishit 44:34, wherein Yehuda remarks, "pen ereh bara" (lest I
> see the bad).
Because in the verse you quoted the phrase TIR'U B'RA is **not** used
alone but has a continuation "asher yimtza et avi" (which B'RA modifies).
That's why I mentioned the possibility of "tistaklu [or better yet 'titbonenu']
B'TUV SHE'B'ADAM (or poorer, "b'tov she'yesh ba'adam'.
I will reiterate what I wrote last week: ask 50 native speakers of Hebrew
re: "TIR'U B'TOV" and they will laugh hysterically.
Although the phrase would be very strange, no one would complain if Micha
wrote "TIRU'U B'TOV SHE'YESH B'ADAM" (even though the preferred word would
be TISTAKLU or TITBONENU or T'CHAPSU)
Josh
>
> Meir
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>>> Hebrew. Every native speaker of Hebrew laughs at this pathetic attempt
>>> to write Hebrew. A professor of Hebrew linguistics at Hebrew University
>>> burst out laughing when she saw this. It took her 5 minutes to calm down.
>>
>> Now that she has calmed down, could you please ask her why it's
>> proper to say "tir'u bara," but it's wrong to say "tir'u batov"? And
>> should she say that "tir'u bara" is also incorrect, kindly refer her
>> to Bereishit 44:34, wherein Yehuda remarks, "pen ereh bara" (lest I
>> see the bad).
>
> Because in the verse you quoted the phrase TIR'U B'RA is **not** used
> alone but has a continuation "asher yimtza et avi" (which B'RA modifies).
>
> That's why I mentioned the possibility of "tistaklu [or better yet
> 'titbonenu'] B'TUV SHE'B'ADAM (or poorer, "b'tov she'yesh ba'adam'.
But I don't think Micha wants to _limit_ his advice (blessing) to
_only_ looking for the "good in _people_". I see it as a more general
thing. Look for the good in people, in your circumstances, physical,
mental, emotional and spiritual. Look for the good in relationships,
in your family, in your community, in your workplace, in your
country. Look for the good in all the things that happen _to_ you.
As I said to Cindy, there is a limit to how long you want a sig. to
be. So Micha says "look to/for the good" and leaves it ambiguous.
I read it as an exhortation to follow Rebbe Nachman's advice to look
for the "good points".
> I will reiterate what I wrote last week: ask 50 native speakers of
> Hebrew re: "TIR'U B'TOV" and they will laugh hysterically.
Wonderful. So he's making 50 native speakers of Hebrew, happy. I'm
all for that. :-)
> Although the phrase would be very strange, no one would complain if Micha
> wrote "TIRU'U B'TOV SHE'YESH B'ADAM" (even though the preferred word would
> be TISTAKLU or TITBONENU or T'CHAPSU)
As I said, why should he limit the field of search?
Micha Berger
>> Because in the verse you quoted the phrase TIR'U B'RA is **not** used
>> alone but has a continuation "asher yimtza et avi" (which B'RA modifies).
>> That's why I mentioned the possibility of "tistaklu [or better yet
>> 'titbonenu'] B'TUV SHE'B'ADAM (or poorer, "b'tov she'yesh ba'adam'.
> But I don't think Micha wants to _limit_ his advice (blessing) to
> _only_ looking for the "good in _people_"....
People are losing cite of something... It's not my line, it's R'
Wolbe's. Since R' Shlomo Wolbe spent more years speaking Hebrew than did
Josh and wrote several sepharim in that language, I take it for granted
he didn't make a grevious grammatical error.
And Moshe is correct that I do not believe R' Wolbe was paraphrasing
"hevei dan es kol haadam lekaf zekhus" (the obligation to judge people
assuming the best of them).
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Time flies...
mi...@aishdas.org ... but you're the pilot.
http://www.aishdas.org - R' Zelig Pliskin
Fax: (270) 514-1507