A Question on Jewish Cinema
Lee Ratner
Does the Jewish diaspora and all the varieties in the Jewish
world make the idea of a Jewish cinema impossible. By Jewish cinema, I
mean movies that deal with themes and contain images and references
that the majority of Jews can relate to, at least to a limited extent,
whether they live in Israel or the Diaspora and regardless of their
level of religious observance.
in...@rambam.biz
religious point of view.
Frum machmir jews seldom if ever watch movies. Maybe because:
1. The whole medium is highly idolatrous. You're watching much larger
than life images in respectful silences, which kind of reeks of avodah
zarah.
I actually like a good movie comedy or musical myself, but I'm not a
frummie.
Josh, Micha, Jacko and Moshe, what are your favorite movies, just
curious? Josh has made references to the funniest movie ever made,
Blazing Saddles, kol hakavod.
2. My goodness, movie "stars". Could anything be more avodas koichavim?
Having said that, isn't it interesting that the American film industry
and the town of Hollywood was invented by nonreligious Jews? So was Las
Vegas. Irving Berlin's most popular songs were about goyishe holidays.
Hmmm, maybe now I know why the Chafetz Chaim and many other gedolim
steadfastly refused to come to this country. Simcha
fla...@verizon.net
On 20-Apr-2006, in...@rambam.biz wrote:
> Frum machmir jews seldom if ever watch movies. Maybe because:
> 1. The whole medium is highly idolatrous. You're watching much larger
> than life images in respectful silences, which kind of reeks of avodah
> zarah.
So MST3K* is a good show for frum Jews....?
Susan
*For the uninitiated: MST3K is an acronym for "Mystery Science Theater
3000", a comedy show where truly terrible movies get mocked.
Tim Meushaw
>
> On 20-Apr-2006, in...@rambam.biz wrote:
>
>> Frum machmir jews seldom if ever watch movies. Maybe because:
>> 1. The whole medium is highly idolatrous. You're watching much larger
>> than life images in respectful silences, which kind of reeks of avodah
>> zarah.
>
> So MST3K* is a good show for frum Jews....?
I'd say it's a good show for anybody, but that's just me. Take my
opinion with a grain of salt, I'm apparently an idolator for going to
the movie theatre once a year.
Tim (who WISHES everyone in the theatre would watch in respectful
silence....)
--
Timothy A. Meushaw
meu...@pobox.com
Eliyahu
in...@rambam.biz wrote:
> Seems the term "Jewish cinema" is an oxymoron, at least from a
> religious point of view.
>
> Frum machmir jews seldom if ever watch movies. Maybe because:
> 1. The whole medium is highly idolatrous. You're watching much larger
> than life images in respectful silences, which kind of reeks of avodah
> zarah.
The respect isn't for the movie; it's for the patrons around you who've
paid money to watch and hear the movie -- not to hear us chatter. And
if it's a good comedy, you'll hear lots of laughter -- not silence.
>
> I actually like a good movie comedy or musical myself, but I'm not a
> frummie.
>
> Josh, Micha, Jacko and Moshe, what are your favorite movies, just
> curious? Josh has made references to the funniest movie ever made,
> Blazing Saddles, kol hakavod.
>
> 2. My goodness, movie "stars". Could anything be more avodas koichavim?
>
> Having said that, isn't it interesting that the American film industry
> and the town of Hollywood was invented by nonreligious Jews? So was Las
> Vegas. Irving Berlin's most popular songs were about goyishe holidays.
So were a lot of the things that you and I use throughout our lives,
from most of our vaccines to vitamins, and from record stores to much
of the operating system in your computer. What would be more
interesting would be if the film industry were invented by religious
Jews...
>
> Hmmm, maybe now I know why the Chafetz Chaim and many other gedolim
> steadfastly refused to come to this country. Simcha
Why? Because a Jew doesn't have to be religious to succeed financially?
Or because the government doesn't compel us all to be observant? Take
a look around this country and, good or bad, you'll find whatever it is
you're seeking. If you want filth and corruption, it's there, but
someone looking for goodness, kindness, generosity and respect will
also find it here without any difficulty. And, frankly, I believe that
God is going to be more satisfied with someone who is observant because
he chooses to be while living in the midst of those who aren't, than He
will be by someone who is observant because he doesn't really have much
in the way of alternatives.
Eliyahu
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> Seems the term "Jewish cinema" is an oxymoron, at least from a
> religious point of view.
>
> Frum machmir jews seldom if ever watch movies. Maybe because:
> 1. The whole medium is highly idolatrous. You're watching much larger
> than life images in respectful silences, which kind of reeks of avodah
> zarah.
>
> I actually like a good movie comedy or musical myself, but I'm not a
> frummie.
>
> Josh, Micha, Jacko and Moshe, what are your favorite movies, just
> curious? Josh has made references to the funniest movie ever made,
> Blazing Saddles, kol hakavod.
The Godfather [Abe Vigoda :-)]
Casablanca [a classic]
Wizard of Oz [uber-classic]
Blazing Saddles ["shvartzes ?? LOZ EM GAYN!!!!!!!!]
High Anxiety [the psychiatry lecturer who when the 6 year old kid
enters the auditorium, suddenly switches terminology
to "Number One" and "Number Two"]
The Caine Mutiny [superb]
The Producers [Zero Mostel as Max Bialystock]
Schindler's List [the music brings me to tears]
Star is Born (1937) [Esther Blodgett becomes Vicky Lester]
Best Years of our Lives [post-war realism]
North by Northwest [the last scene]
The Big Red One [I hosted Lee Marvin and Mark Hamill in my office and
saw a couple of the scenes filmed in Jerusalem]
The Thomas Crown Affair [I was an extra, a scene lasting 1/2 second]
Judgement at Nurenberg [fascinating]
Dial M for Murder [the hidden key; I figured it out]
Midnight Cowboy [the music and 77 WABC radio]
The French Connection [the car chase under the elevated train in Bay Ridge]
Garden of the Finzi-Contini [Jewish Seder scene]
In Cold Blood [my French teacher in 12th grade was the actress
who was raped. She didn't know we saw the movie ]
Jaws [haven't swum at the beach in 30 years]
Lawrence of Arabia [cinematography and music]
The Taking of Pelham One, Two Three [NYC subway]
Twelve Angry Men [I need an air conditioner !!]
>
> 2. My goodness, movie "stars". Could anything be more avodas koichavim?
>
> Having said that, isn't it interesting that the American film industry
> and the town of Hollywood was invented by nonreligious Jews? So was Las
> Vegas. Irving Berlin's most popular songs were about goyishe holidays.
You just reminded me of another favorite: WHITE CHRISTMAS. [it's
the music, and the war. My generation grew up with this]
>
> Hmmm, maybe now I know why the Chafetz Chaim and many other gedolim
> steadfastly refused to come to this country. Simcha
>
Josh
Chano
"Eliyahu" <lro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145595973.7...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
snipped for brevity
> And, frankly, I believe that
> God is going to be more satisfied with someone who is observant because
> he chooses to be while living in the midst of those who aren't, than He
> will be by someone who is observant because he doesn't really have much
> in the way of alternatives.
Eliyahu might believe that, but that is not the Jewish approach. As Jews say
first thing each morning on awaking, "...Torah tzivah lanu Moshe, morasha
KEHILAT Ya'akov" "Moses instructed us in the Torah, it is the inheritance of
the COMMUNITY of Jacob". God wants us to live among a Jewish community where
each member gives help and encouragement to the other. There is no merit in
living in a place where alternatives to Torah Judaism abound and where the
lone individual has to struggle in his Jewish observance. Unless, like Lot,
he chooses to live among alien influences because of a natural tendency
towards them.
--
Chano
>
> Eliyahu
>
Dan Kimmel
> > Having said that, isn't it interesting that the American film industry
> > and the town of Hollywood was invented by nonreligious Jews? So was Las
> > Vegas. Irving Berlin's most popular songs were about goyishe holidays.
>
> So were a lot of the things that you and I use throughout our lives,
> from most of our vaccines to vitamins, and from record stores to much
> of the operating system in your computer. What would be more
> interesting would be if the film industry were invented by religious
> Jews...
Many, but not all, were non-religious. Adolph Zukor (founder of Paramount)
was observant. While some were completely non-observant (like Harry Cohn,
founder of Columbia) and some even flirted with conversion (like Louis Mayer
at MGM), many were nominal Jews who supported Jewish charities and belonged
to the big Reform temple (whose name escapes me at the moment) in L.A.
It's not very well organized, but Neal Gabler's book "An Empire of their
Own" goes into some detail on this.
Beach Runner
>>Vegas. Irving Berlin's most popular songs were about goyishe holidays.
>
>
>
> You just reminded me of another favorite: WHITE CHRISTMAS. [it's
> the music, and the war. My generation grew up with this]
>
>
Irving Berlin was indeed a great composer.
White Christmas and Easter Parade are two of the best selling pieces of
music in history. I could be wrong, but I believe White Christmas is
the best selling tune of all time.
One thing to note, in these "Holiday" themed pieces, he never uses
"Christ" or anything other than seasonal themes. The Christians never
seem to notice that.
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
>
>>>Vegas. Irving Berlin's most popular songs were about goyishe holidays.
>>
>>
>>
>> You just reminded me of another favorite: WHITE CHRISTMAS. [it's
>> the music, and the war. My generation grew up with this]
>>
>>
>
> Irving Berlin was indeed a great composer.
> White Christmas and Easter Parade are two of the best selling pieces of
> music in history. I could be wrong, but I believe White Christmas is
> the best selling tune of all time.
The following factoid is true, I kid you not. *The* most popular record
(in terms of sales) up until one of Elvis Presley's hits in 1958 was
the Yiddish "Joe and Paul" by the Barton Brothers. It sold an incredible
750,000 albums. Do a search for it on Google.
Josh
Micha Berger
: Josh, Micha, Jacko and Moshe, what are your favorite movies, just
: curious? Josh has made references to the funniest movie ever made,
: Blazing Saddles, kol hakavod.
I'm a programmer who started off doing it as entertainment. My tastes are
typical for stereotypical UNIX weenies. Not much of a Treky or Trekker,
though.
I liked Star Wars episode IV, ET, more recently The Matrix (only the first
one). But truth is, in the past decade (with only one or two exceptions)
my movie watching has been limited to taking the kids.
I see no Jewish content so far, so let me add that itself as an
observation. I'm sufficiently unintegrated that my movie tastes aren't
all that informed by my Orthodoxy.
I didn't like much of Fiddler, but I'm jealous of the character of Tevye
and his perpetual dialogue with the A-lmighty. It's at the expense of
knowing much textually, though.
Are the two necessarily in conflict? Talk amongst yourselves. The
speeches at <http://www.aishdas.org/articles/emunahMachashavah.mp3>
("Simple Faith vs. Deep Philosophy: a panel discussion") may help.
You also get to hear Jon Baker (former (?) scjmer) and Gil Student
(Hirhurim blog) make introductions.
:-)BBii!
-mi
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Seems the term "Jewish cinema" is an oxymoron, at least from a
> religious point of view.
>
> Frum machmir jews seldom if ever watch movies. Maybe because:
> 1. The whole medium is highly idolatrous. You're watching much larger
> than life images in respectful silences, which kind of reeks of avodah
> zarah.
>
> I actually like a good movie comedy or musical myself, but I'm not a
> frummie.
>
> Josh, Micha, Jacko and Moshe, what are your favorite movies, just
> curious?
The Greatest Show on Earth about the circus. It's the last movie I
saw.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University