Kosher India Service
cindys
under the supervision of the Kosher India Service. I have not yet had
an opportunity to phone the Star-K to make inquiries, but everything I
read about this agency on the internet made it sound like it was
reliable. I was hoping to be able to serve some of the foods as side
dishes this shabbos to accompany chicken. I was careful to select only
the varieties that were marked "pareve." (There were a number of
varieties marked dairy).
Just now, I was reading the fine print and lo and behold! There is an
allergen disclaimer on all of the packages of allegedly pareve foods
warning me that the foods may contain small amounts of milk or milk
products. What do you make of that? As I said, an inquiry call to the
Star-K was definitely in order anyway. I don't have any problems
considering these foods to all be dairy, but this a major faux pas,
and it really makes me wonder if this stuff can be considered kosher
at all. When I phone Star-K, I will report what they say. But does
anyone have any additional information on this in the meantime?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
chsw
There are lots of kosher Indian foods at Trader Joes under
several different certifying agencies. I would be very
interested in reading what you find out from Star-K.
chsw
cindys
I have just sent an e-mail to Rabbi Mushell who represents the Star-K
in India. I asked him specifically about Kohinoor foods, which are
under the supervision of the "Kosher Inspection Service of India."
When I receive his response, I will share it on e-mail with anyone who
wants to know.
Just so you know, the way the Star K operates (in the USA anyway) is
that they answer kashrus questions on a product-by-product (not
hechsher) basis. So, they will generally not comment on hechsher XYZ
but will tell you whether or not they "recommend" Happy Time Chocolate
Chip Cookies (which is under the XYZ hechsher). This would not impact
on whether they would "recommend" the canned green beans which are
under the same hechsher.
We shall see what Rabbi Mushell says.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
Talk about a fast response! Star K does not recommend the Kohinoor
products.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Henry Goodman
news:f49cb66c-e33e-4f73...@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
I have heard that food products often contain disclaimers like this aimed at
covering themselves in case somebody has a violent allergic reaction. It may
be made on the same machine that makes milk products. I have been advised
that for kashrus purposes such contamination would be batel beshishim and
would not make the product milchig.
--
Henry Goodman
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
cindys
> "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
Yes, I understand that *may* be the situation here (Jay pointed this
out as well), but there really isn't any way to know for sure. But
it's not just that. The Star-K has said "not recommended" to Kohinoor
products in general. I don't know the reason, which may not be related
to this milk contamination issue at all. If it were my neighbor saying
"nay-nay" to this product, I would investigate further, but when a
rabbi from the Star-K says "nay-nay," I kind of think I need to
believe him.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Don Levey
Is there a difference between the "we think there may be problems" sort
of "not recommended" and the "we don't know enough about them" sort of
response? That is, from my point of view "not recommended" can mean a
lack of a positive recommendation, or it could mean a negative one.
--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
Yussel
I've dealt with the Star-K people. They are based in Baltimore. They
are good serious people and I'd believe them too.
Joel
cindys
> On 8/24/2010 17:00, cindys wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 24, 10:50 am, "Henry Goodman" <henry.good...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> >> I have heard that food products often contain disclaimers like this aimed at
> >> covering themselves in case somebody has a violent allergic reaction. It may
> >> be made on the same machine that makes milk products. I have been advised
> >> that for kashrus purposes such contamination would be batel beshishim and
> >> would not make the product milchig.
> > ----
> > Yes, I understand that *may* be the situation here (Jay pointed this
> > out as well), but there really isn't any way to know for sure. But
> > it's not just that. The Star-K has said "not recommended" to Kohinoor
> > products in general. I don't know the reason, which may not be related
> > to this milk contamination issue at all. If it were my neighbor saying
> > "nay-nay" to this product, I would investigate further, but when a
> > rabbi from the Star-K says "nay-nay," I kind of think I need to
> > believe him.
>
> Is there a difference between the "we think there may be problems" sort
> of "not recommended" and the "we don't know enough about them" sort of
> response? That is, from my point of view "not recommended" can mean a
> lack of a positive recommendation, or it could mean a negative one.
I don't think that's how the Star K operates. My understanding of the
way the Star K operates is as follows:
The Star-K will generally never say flat out that a product is
"treif." If they know enough about a product to know there are
problems, they will say that the product is "not recommended." If the
Star-K really doesn't know enough about a product to judge one way or
the other, they tell the truth and say they don't know enough about
it.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Abe Kohen
"Don Levey" <Don_...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
news:i51eie$jt4$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 8/24/2010 17:00, cindys wrote:
>> On Aug 24, 10:50 am, "Henry Goodman" <henry.good...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have heard that food products often contain disclaimers like this
>>> aimed at
>>> covering themselves in case somebody has a violent allergic reaction. It
>>> may
>>> be made on the same machine that makes milk products. I have been
>>> advised
>>> that for kashrus purposes such contamination would be batel beshishim
>>> and
>>> would not make the product milchig.
>> ----
>> Yes, I understand that *may* be the situation here (Jay pointed this
>> out as well), but there really isn't any way to know for sure. But
>> it's not just that. The Star-K has said "not recommended" to Kohinoor
>> products in general. I don't know the reason, which may not be related
>> to this milk contamination issue at all. If it were my neighbor saying
>> "nay-nay" to this product, I would investigate further, but when a
>> rabbi from the Star-K says "nay-nay," I kind of think I need to
>> believe him.
>>
>
> Is there a difference between the "we think there may be problems" sort
> of "not recommended" and the "we don't know enough about them" sort of
> response? That is, from my point of view "not recommended" can mean a
> lack of a positive recommendation, or it could mean a negative one.
Worth remembering that kosher certification is a business, and competitors
are not always viewed kindly. Sometimes it may feel like paying the Mafia
"protection money."
I have now view on the kashrut of Kohinoor products.
Best,
Abe
cindys
> "Don Levey" <Don_S...@the-leveys.us> wrote in message
But there *are* many products under competitors' hashgachos that the
Star-K does "recommend," so if there were an issue with competition
going on regarding certain products, how can you know?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Abe Kohen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Abe responds:
When I worked at a midtown hedge fund and got "free" lunch, we called up the
OU to inquire about the kashrut of a Persian restaurant under a different
hashgacha, we got an answer that "they would not trust it," which upon
further examination became clear was not on merit, but on competition.
FTR, Micha was not involved with the matter, although we overlapped at that
hedge fund.
Best,
Abe
cindys
> "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
Okay, that's fine. I don't know how it became clear regarding the
Persian restaurant, but I will take your word for it. However, in the
case of the Kohinoor products, there is no way for me to know if this
is legitimately a kashrus issue versus a competition thing, especially
considering that there are in fact many competitors' products that the
Star-K *does* recommend. Since I don't live in India, it's not as if I
can go to the rabbi at the local Indian synagogue (for example) and
get his take on the situation. I really don't have a choice but to
rely on the Star K's judgment, the alternative being to go ahead and
eat what may be or may not be a kosher product.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Harry Weiss
> On 8/24/2010 17:00, cindys wrote:
> > On Aug 24, 10:50 am, "Henry Goodman" <henry.good...@virgin.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have heard that food products often contain disclaimers like this aimed at
> >> covering themselves in case somebody has a violent allergic reaction. It may
> >> be made on the same machine that makes milk products. I have been advised
> >> that for kashrus purposes such contamination would be batel beshishim and
> >> would not make the product milchig.
> > ----
> > Yes, I understand that *may* be the situation here (Jay pointed this
> > out as well), but there really isn't any way to know for sure. But
> > it's not just that. The Star-K has said "not recommended" to Kohinoor
> > products in general. I don't know the reason, which may not be related
> > to this milk contamination issue at all. If it were my neighbor saying
> > "nay-nay" to this product, I would investigate further, but when a
> > rabbi from the Star-K says "nay-nay," I kind of think I need to
> > believe him.
> >
> Is there a difference between the "we think there may be problems" sort
> of "not recommended" and the "we don't know enough about them" sort of
> response? That is, from my point of view "not recommended" can mean a
> lack of a positive recommendation, or it could mean a negative one.
Not recommended is that standard term that is used for either one of the
cases, though in some cases they will we need to get more information.
They will never say the actual problem in public because of litigation.
Non reccommening is a judgement call and cannot be accused of slander etc.
Even if right most cannot afford the cost of litigation. When the NY
State accused Hebrew Nat of violating kosher laws they sued. The state
at least had sufficient resources to litigate and won the case.
> --
> Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
> (email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
> NOTE: Don't send mail to to sal...@the-leveys.us
> GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Harry Weiss
The OU will not comment on other hashgacot, though they have internal
document of which supervision are acceptable for which ingredients that
may be used in an end product or facility under the OU>
> I have now view on the kashrut of Kohinoor products.
> Best,
> Abe
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Don Levey
>
That is what I suspected, given the wording, and so it would be tough to
tell if the product is actually problematic or if it is simply not
explicitly known/trusted to be kosher by this particular agency. I
would imagine that erring on the side of caution would be the usual
response in this case.
Don Levey
So there is a difference in their response, which seems to indicate a
difference in knowledge/experience. That would make it easier to
understand. Thanks!