Creedmoor on Wikipedia!
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
issues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creedmoor_chassidism
Ariadne
Wikipedia seems to be a pool of negation.
Where do I vote to retain the article at all costs?
Paul
"Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)" <stour...@yahoo.com> wrote
in message news:d3boaa$2p9h$1...@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
> Now, Wikipedia can truly be considered an authoritative source on Jewish
> issues:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creedmoor_chassidism
Another reason not to trust anything one reads in Wikipedia.
Lisa
On the contrary. Look how fast the Wikipedia community discovered that
the article was satire. It'll be gone soon. It's too bad, really.
There ought to be a place for such articles, but it's clear that the
Wikiniks (tm) are committed to genuine and legitimate content.
Also, they have an article which mentions me, so I kinda like them.
<grin>
Lisa
2m...@qlink.queensu.ca
I'm a bad, bad man.
l...@gemtnt.com
Amitai Halevi
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 l...@gemtnt.com wrote:
> "Dome of the Schlock" (Wal-Mart) was a nice touch. LR
>
Regrettably, that was the touch that gave it away as satire
and will hasten its removal from Wikipedia.
Amitai
cindys
<l...@gemtnt.com> wrote in message
news:1113251040....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> "Dome of the Schlock" (Wal-Mart) was a nice touch. LR
I was particularly amused regarding the "rabbi" who routinely cited tertiary
and quaternary sources. I couldn't help but note that this "rabbi" was
amongst the most vocal arguing for the article's deletion. I can't imagine
why ;-)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Henry Goodman
news:SEU7e.2111$mG3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Seems to have been deleted now.
Ian will have to be more subtle next time if he wants it to last
longer.
Shavua Tov
--
Henry Goodman
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
Robert
"Henry Goodman" <henry....@virgin.net> wrote :
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> Seems to have been deleted now.
> Ian will have to be more subtle next time if he wants it to last longer.
Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing a
serious encyclopedia where many people go to learn something about Judaism?
The fact that no one on this group disapproves of vandalism and hoxes when
it comes to educating the general public about Judaism is most
disconcerting.
Robert
Henry Goodman
news:dED8e.86534$cg1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Many of us have a sense of humour and enjoy parody. It was hardly
vandalism.
I was impressed by the strength and speed of the defence shown by
Wikipedia against Ian's mild joke; it was almost as though somebody
who reads scjm regularly had tipped them off.
Garry
I don't think so. I don't know exactly how long it takes things to
propogate on the newsgroups, but I read Ian's post very close to when
it appeared, and there was already a discussion (not just comments,
but replies to comments) posted on Wikipedia, about its satirical
nature.
_______________________________________
A haggadah that feeds the hungry! A carefully translated and revised version of the Haggadah, handsomely printed.
The entire purchase price goes to charity. http://www.matzoh.net/hagg/main.html
Feel free to contact me thru matzoh.net. Garry
cindys
"Robert" <rkscie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dED8e.86534$cg1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >> ---Cindy S.
> >
> > Seems to have been deleted now.
> > Ian will have to be more subtle next time if he wants it to last longer.
>
>
> Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing a
> serious encyclopedia
Bwahahah! :-)
>where many people go to learn something about Judaism?
> The fact that no one on this group disapproves of vandalism and hoxes when
> it comes to educating the general public about Judaism is most
> disconcerting.
Tsk..tsk. BTW, I was most fascinated to learn of the "rabbi" who devotes so
much time to reading and citing tertiary and quaternary sources. Any
thoughts on who it could be?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>
>
> Robert
>
Eliyahu Rooff
"Robert" <rkscie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dED8e.86534$cg1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
t.i.c..
Eliyahu
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
You mean MISquoting tertiary sources :-)
And I'll bet that this "rabbi" was the one who informed Wikipedia of Ian's
harmless prank. I heard this "rabbi" teaches or once taught Judaic Studies
at a Conservative day school on Long Island. I wonder who he is.
Josh
Amitai Halevi
Whatever his identity, would the informer be subject to "din moser"?
Amitai
Joel Shurkin
I was actually going to do it that day and found I was already too late.
j
cindys
"Amitai Halevi" <chr...@techunix.technion.ac.il> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.61.05...@techunix.technion.ac.il...
Why, yes, I believe he would be....
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
>
> "Amitai Halevi"
>> Whatever his identity, would the informer be subject to "din moser"?
> --------
> Why, yes, I believe he would be....
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
Is a shoiteh really subject to din moser?
Z
Robert <rkscie...@yahoo.com> writes
have seen it.
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoraziner_Chassidism
try also Creedmoorer, Mahadrek, Mahadreck.
If the quality of information regarding Judaism were above the
Mahadrek/Mahadreck level, I would not parody, but rather contribute.
cindys
"Z" <Z...@imaris.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1TaHnUPh...@imaris.demon.co.uk...
According to Ian, you still can:
In any case, it is still up there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoraziner_Chassidism
try also Creedmoorer, Mahadrek, Mahadreck.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
News Admin
"Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)" <stour...@yahoo.com> wrote
> In any case, it is still up there:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoraziner_Chassidism
>
> try also Creedmoorer, Mahadrek, Mahadreck.
You're like a kid who just wants to be spanked :-)
Fiona
Harry Weiss
> > >Robert
> > >
> > Had the site not vandalised the entry by deleting it so quickly I might
> > have seen it.
> ----------
> According to Ian, you still can:
> In any case, it is still up there:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoraziner_Chassidism
> try also Creedmoorer, Mahadrek, Mahadreck.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
I also did not find the listing for the Mahadreck Pe-or Shmura Matzah Bakery for
those that want a richer darker Matzah.
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
news:d411jr$g1h$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk...
I would like to get the Mahadreck spanked - no such luck as he and his ilk
have conquered Wikipedia.
Susan Cohen
"Henry Goodman" <henry....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:d3vktq$7i3$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
No "almost" - I read the comments section.
My only beef with this is that any encyclopedia that can have articles voted
in or out *is* suspect, and I would like to thank Ian for bringing this to
my attwntion.
Susan
Micha Berger
: Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing a
First, Lisa and Herman agree on a point about dating the Exodus, now I
find myself in agreement with Robert. Truly Mashiach tzeitn (messiah's
times)!
-mi
--
Micha Berger Like a bird, man can reach undreamed-of
mi...@aishdas.org heights as long as he works his wings.
http://www.aishdas.org But if he relaxes them for but one minute,
Fax: (270) 514-1507 he plummets downward. - Rav Yisrael Salanter
cindys
"Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
news:d42vm9$hjv$3...@falcon.steinthal.us...
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:25:37 +0000 (UTC), Robert <rkscie...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> : Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing
a
> : serious encyclopedia where many people go to learn something about
Judaism?
>
> First, Lisa and Herman agree on a point about dating the Exodus, now I
> find myself in agreement with Robert. Truly Mashiach tzeitn (messiah's
> times)!
>
> -mi
>
You agree that Wikipedia is a "serious" encyclopedia?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Micha Berger
:>: Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing a
:>: serious encyclopedia where many people go to learn something about Judaism?
:> First, Lisa and Herman agree on a point about dating the Exodus, now I
:> find myself in agreement with Robert. Truly Mashiach tzeitn (messiah's
:> times)!
: You agree that Wikipedia is a "serious" encyclopedia?
I agree that Wikipedia is a resource used by many to learn, and therefore
intentionally plugging jokes into it is vandalism. Geneivas da'as (theft
of knowledge, ie misleading others) and at times actually carries a
greater penalty than literal theft.
-mi
--
Micha Berger One doesn't learn mussar to be a tzaddik,
mi...@aishdas.org but to become a tzaddik.
http://www.aishdas.org - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507
Eliyahu Rooff
serious one, and those who maintain it aren't there just for laughs. It
remains to be seen how much long-term impact it has and whether it
succeeds, but I would also consider it to be serious.
Eliyahu
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:19:51 +0000 (UTC), cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> :>: Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing a
> :>: serious encyclopedia where many people go to learn something about Judaism?
>
> :> First, Lisa and Herman agree on a point about dating the Exodus, now I
> :> find myself in agreement with Robert. Truly Mashiach tzeitn (messiah's
> :> times)!
>
> : You agree that Wikipedia is a "serious" encyclopedia?
>
> I agree that Wikipedia is a resource used by many to learn, and therefore
> intentionally plugging jokes into it is vandalism. Geneivas da'as (theft
> of knowledge, ie misleading others) and at times actually carries a
> greater penalty than literal theft.
>
But people who are interested in learning about the Thoraziner Rebbe and
Creedmoor Chassidim get the best info available. Ian's an expert in his
field :-)
Seriously, Wikipedia has zero reliability. No one in academia takes it
seriously. If an article were submitted with a name and an affiliation
(e.g. Professor John Doe, PhD., Dept. of History, Harvard University)
with an email address so that one could verify that the one who submitted
the article is bona fide and not bogus, that would be a different story.
(Even if the article weren't peer reviewed in an academic journal).
The problem with Wikipedia is that some people may be misled into believing
it has validity.
Josh
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
>
> "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
> news:d42vm9$hjv$3...@falcon.steinthal.us...
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:25:37 +0000 (UTC), Robert <rkscie...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> : Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are discussing
> a
>> : serious encyclopedia where many people go to learn something about
> Judaism?
>>
>> First, Lisa and Herman agree on a point about dating the Exodus, now I
>> find myself in agreement with Robert. Truly Mashiach tzeitn (messiah's
>> times)!
If the information were not on a Mahadreck level, I would not post satire
there. As it is, as long as I see certain posters quoting their own work
here, Wankipedia is fair game for the Creedmoor Chronicler.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
> I agree that Wikipedia is a resource used by many to learn, and therefore
> intentionally plugging jokes into it is vandalism. Geneivas da'as (theft
> of knowledge, ie misleading others) and at times actually carries a
> greater penalty than literal theft.
Good to know I am on the right track - I really am looking forward to kares,
you know :)!
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
But you ARE the world's leading expert on the Thoraziner Rebbe and the
Creedmoor chassidic group :-)
Josh
>
>
Robert
"Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote :
> No "almost" - I read the comments section.
> My only beef with this is that any encyclopedia that can have articles
> voted
> in or out *is* suspect, and I would like to thank Ian for bringing this to
> my attwntion.
Um, aren't all encyclopedias like this? Wouldn't it be suspect if one could
*not* remove articles that were vandalism, jokes, or one person's personal
opinions?
The work that has been done so far on Judaism articles on Wikipedia is
nothing less than outstanding. Granted, some here might complain that very
few non-Orthodox Jews are involved. But it seems to me that these articles
are accurate, balanced, and growing towards something quite fine. See for
instance the following article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitzvah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_responsa
Shalom,
Robert
l...@gemtnt.com
> of knowledge, ie misleading others) and at times actually carries a
> greater penalty than literal theft.
Don't tell rabbinical students that, or it will chas v'shalom be even
harder to fill pulpits than it is now. LR
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> writes:
>> cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> : Micha wrote:
>> :>Robert wrote:
>> :>: Why are you encouraging vandalism? Why, indeed, since we are
>> :>: discussing a serious encyclopedia where many people go to
>> :>: learn something about Judaism?
>>
>> :> First, Lisa and Herman agree on a point about dating the
>> :> Exodus, now I find myself in agreement with Robert. Truly
>> :> Mashiach tzeitn (messiah's times)!
>>
>> : You agree that Wikipedia is a "serious" encyclopedia?
>>
>> I agree that Wikipedia is a resource used by many to learn, and
>> therefore intentionally plugging jokes into it is vandalism.
>> Geneivas da'as (theft of knowledge, ie misleading others) and at
>> times actually carries a greater penalty than literal theft.
>
> Seriously, Wikipedia has zero reliability. No one in academia takes
> it seriously.
Micha made no claim as to its reliability. He also did not say it was
used in academia. It's used by the common folks and they do indeed
learn from it. It's easy to sit in an ivory tower and say it's nor
reliable. But that doesn't stop ordinary folk from using it.
In a different thread, Robert posted some example of Wikipedia
entries on various Jewish topics. The one I looked at, Mitzvot,
looked well done.
> If an article were submitted with a name and an affiliation
> (e.g. Professor John Doe, PhD., Dept. of History, Harvard University)
> with an email address so that one could verify that the one who submitted
> the article is bona fide and not bogus, that would be a different story.
> (Even if the article weren't peer reviewed in an academic journal).
>
> The problem with Wikipedia is that some people may be misled into
> believing it has validity.
Assuming that is a "problem" what do you propose as a solution?
Writing bogus entries?
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
Gary W. Bush
>
>
> Amitai
Can you please explain to me as brief as possible what is meant by
the term "din moser"?
Thank you in advance.
Gary.
Creedmoor Chronicles, Ltd (Tirana, Albania)
news:d438qq$6u4$1...@falcon.steinthal.us...
Hence, it is built on the premise of geneivas da'as. I use humour to
illustrate that fact.
cindys
"Gary W. Bush" <gary...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e1f5db5.05042...@posting.google.com...
The law regarding traitors.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Harry Weiss
Amitai Halevi
"More appropriate" doesn't even begin to cover it. The extension
from informer to traitor is a relatively recent politically
motivated perversion.
As spelled out in detail in Chapter 8 of Hilkhot Hovel u-Maziq,
a "moser" is someone who provides information to the de jure or
de facto secular authorities that would endanger the life, liberty
or property of another Jew. Under certain defined circumstances
a "moser" can be executed without trial.
This rule was evidently promulgated for self-protection during
periods in which the Jewish community is subjugated under a
lawless or malevolent regime. Thus, I cannot imagine an Orthodox
Rabbi in the United States ruling that it justifies the murder
of a Jewish investigator who has provided evidence against a
Jewish embezzler.
Nevertheless, certain soi-disant "spiritual leaders" on the
Israeli religious Right have had the unmitigated gall to apply
the term "moser" to the country's democratically elected leaders
(previously Rabin, now Sharon - among others). The rationalization,
to the extent that I can make it out, is that these leaders are
prepared to "treasonously" deliver what they claim is Divinely
ordained land on the West Bank and Gaza strip - and therefore
Jewish real estate - into non-Jewish hands, and also, in some
way not clear to me, endanger Jewish lives by so doing.
Amitai
qepip...@myself.com
Firstly and formostly I wish to protest the spelling anomaly.
'Creedmoor' is not the Jewish spelling I inherited from my ancestors.
In my cultural millieu it is to be spelled Q'reedhmur. Creedmoor
spelling is a product of the Franco-German scholars who in the twelfth
century forged Talmudhic texts they did not understand and so invented
a false Jewish religion patterned after Eastern Orthodox Christian
theologies and modes of thinking. Q'reedhmur on the other hand is
entirely genuinely Jewish.
Now to the main thrust of my complaint: I beg to inform the company
that Master Ian is not nor has ever been the world's leading expert on
Q'reedhmur and the Thoraziner. I myself long resided in Q'reedhmur and
have first hand knowledge of all Q'reedhmur congregations and
institutions and the august personages who lead and inspire said
congregations and institutions.
Enough of this plagerism! Please be informed that it is from me that
Master Ian obtains his information. His reports should be viewed as
merely secondary sources. His Wikapoedia articles are thus merely
tertiary material.
I do not wish to detract entirely from Master Ian's fame and fortune.
He is indeed the former Eibishter and the present Bashefer. That is all
entirely his own. But I hereby assure that neither Eibishter nor
Bashefer ever resided in Q'reedhmur.
Having set the record straight, I now
retire to prepare for the Four Goblet ceremony,
(signed) Giorgies E. Qepipesiom (Gershon Eliyahu)
Former long time resident of Q'reedhmur
qepip...@myself.com
I resend this, which seems to not have reached the group in my earlier
send.
Firstly and foremostly I wish to inform the company that Creedmoor is
not the correct spelling. Creedmoor spelling is the result of the
Franco-Germans of the twelfth century who lacked the cultural means to
understand ancient Jewish texts and so they forged the texts to fit
their understanding. Within my own cultural millieu, the correct
spelling is Q'reedhmur.
Now to the matter at hand: I beg to inform the company that Master Ian
is not the world's leading expert on either Q'reedhmur or the Admur.
these groups. I mysel long resided in Q'reedhmur and have first hand
knowledge of all the Q'reedhmur congregations and institutions and the
august personages who lead and inspire said congregations and
institutions.
Enough of this plagerism! Please be informed that it is from me that
Master Ian obtains his information. His reports should be viewed as
merely secondary sources. His Wikapoedia articles are thus no more than
tertiary material.
I do not wish to detract entirely from Master Ian's fame and fortune.
He is indeed the former Aibishter and the present Bashefer. That is all
entirely his own. But I hereby assure that neither Aibishter nor
Jonathan J. Baker
>"cindys" <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:SEU7e.2111$mG3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>
>> <l...@gemtnt.com> wrote in message
>> news:1113251040....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> > "Dome of the Schlock" (Wal-Mart) was a nice touch. LR
>> ----------
>> I was particularly amused regarding the "rabbi" who routinely cited
>tertiary
>> and quaternary sources. I couldn't help but note that this "rabbi"
>was
>> amongst the most vocal arguing for the article's deletion. I can't
>imagine
>> why ;-)
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>Seems to have been deleted now.
>Ian will have to be more subtle next time if he wants it to last
>longer.
>Shavua Tov
Seems I missed the whole thing. Could Ian or someone send me a copy?
--
Jonathan Baker | Knock knock. Who's there? Mischa. Mischa who?
jjb...@panix.com | Mishenichnas Adar II marbim besimcha yeterah.
Web page update: Rambam resources http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/