R' Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo, Playboy's Miss November
Yisroel Markov
"Is Pornography Harmful to Human Dignity and Human Relationships?"
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo of Playboy
Lindsey Vuolo became the first overtly Jewish woman to pose for
Playboy Magazine. Lindsay is a Jewish woman who says she is extremely
proud of her Jewish identity, attends Synagogue irregularly, and was
raised in a home with proud Jewish tradition. She says that she will
only marry a Jewish man or a man who converts to Judaism.
This interview is available exclusively on Beliefnet.com, where Rabbi
Boteach is a writer.
http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/93/story_9363_1.html&boardID=28862
YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
on the discussion board: "I agree w/ the points the Rabbi made - and I
think she did too. She seemed dazed by the logic and was giving him
the ammo he needed to shoot her vague answers down handidly."
Yisroel Markov Boston, MA Member DNRC
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Brute force is the only avenue of action open to men who regard
themselves as mindless aggregates of chemicals." -- Ayn Rand
Abe Kohen
"Yisroel Markov" <ey.m...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:2ffb2135.01112...@posting.google.com...
> Exclusive to www.Beliefnet.com
>
> "Is Pornography Harmful to Human Dignity and Human Relationships?"
>
> Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo of Playboy
>
>
> Lindsey Vuolo became the first overtly Jewish woman to pose for
> Playboy Magazine. Lindsay is a Jewish woman who says she is extremely
> proud of her Jewish identity, attends Synagogue irregularly, and was
> raised in a home with proud Jewish tradition. She says that she will
> only marry a Jewish man or a man who converts to Judaism.
>
> This interview is available exclusively on Beliefnet.com, where Rabbi
> Boteach is a writer.
>
>
http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/93/story_9363_1.html&bo
ardID=28862
Yes, but where are the pictures? I would like to practice some Judaism with
her - like the first mitzvah.
As Jimmy Carter said: There is lust in my heart.
And Billy Clinton: I am more of a Southerner.
;-)
Abe
Joel N. Shurkin
2ffb2135.01112...@posting.google.com, "Yisroel Markov"
<ey.m...@iname.com> wrote:
> Exclusive to www.Beliefnet.com
>
> "Is Pornography Harmful to Human Dignity and Human Relationships?"
>
> Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo of Playboy
>
>
> Lindsey Vuolo became the first overtly Jewish woman to pose for
> Playboy Magazine. Lindsay is a Jewish woman who says she is extremely
> proud of her Jewish identity, attends Synagogue irregularly, and was
> raised in a home with proud Jewish tradition. She says that she will
> only marry a Jewish man or a man who converts to Judaism.
>
> This interview is available exclusively on Beliefnet.com, where Rabbi
> Boteach is a writer.
>
> http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/93/story_9363_1.html&boar
> dID=28862
>
> YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
> persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
> on the discussion board: "I agree w/ the points the Rabbi made - and I
> think she did too. She seemed dazed by the logic and was giving him
> the ammo he needed to shoot her vague answers down handidly."
>
To save everyone the time (and I did this purely as a moderator and profound
scholar of morals‹who has two unmarried sons), I went to the Playboy site
and she isnąt on it. Miss December is already posted and Miss November
hasnąt made it to the archives yet.
I realize everyoneąs time is important here and I thought Iąd just check it
out to save you the trouble......
J
Eliyahu
"Joel N. Shurkin" <shu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B8281352.12002%shu...@earthlink.net...
> On 11/26/01 3:06 PM, in article
> 2ffb2135.01112...@posting.google.com, "Yisroel Markov"
> <ey.m...@iname.com> wrote:
>
> > Exclusive to www.Beliefnet.com
> >
> > "Is Pornography Harmful to Human Dignity and Human Relationships?"
> >
> > Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo of Playboy
> >
> >
> > Lindsey Vuolo became the first overtly Jewish woman to pose for
> > Playboy Magazine. Lindsay is a Jewish woman who says she is extremely
> > proud of her Jewish identity, attends Synagogue irregularly, and was
> > raised in a home with proud Jewish tradition. She says that she will
> > only marry a Jewish man or a man who converts to Judaism.
> >
> > This interview is available exclusively on Beliefnet.com, where Rabbi
> > Boteach is a writer.
> >
> >
http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/93/story_9363_1.html&bo
ar
> > dID=28862
> >
> > YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
> > persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
> > on the discussion board: "I agree w/ the points the Rabbi made - and I
> > think she did too. She seemed dazed by the logic and was giving him
> > the ammo he needed to shoot her vague answers down handidly."
> >
>
> To save everyone the time (and I did this purely as a moderator and
profound
and Miss November
> hasnıt made it to the archives yet.
>
> I realize everyoneıs time is important here and I thought Iıd just check
it
> out to save you the trouble......
>
--
Eliyahu Rooff
www.geocities.com/Area51/Underworld/8096/HomePage.htm
RSG Rollcall http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/rooffe.htm
Menachem Mavet
> Exclusive to www.Beliefnet.com
>
> "Is Pornography Harmful to Human Dignity and Human Relationships?"
>
> Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo of Playboy
>
>
> Lindsey Vuolo became the first overtly Jewish woman to pose for
> Playboy Magazine.
> This interview is available exclusively on Beliefnet.com, where Rabbi
> Boteach is a writer.
>
> http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/93/story_9363_1.html&boardID=28862
>
> YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
> persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
> on the discussion board: "I agree w/ the points the Rabbi made - and I
> think she did too. She seemed dazed by the logic and was giving him
> the ammo he needed to shoot her vague answers down handidly."
>
I read this piece of fluff, and I wasn't impressed with either of them.
Sure, Boteach scored debating points, but Vuolo didn't exactly
come across as someone with lots of intellectual prowess. (I hesitiate
to use the word "airhead," let's just give her the benefit of the doubt and
say that it appeared she didn't do her homework before this sorry
attempt at intellectual jousting with a Rabbi.) And I think that with a
little bit of thinkin, it would be possible to refute Boteach, especially if
you admit that you don't believe in Orthodox Judaism.
Basically, Botreach's schtick is that "modesty" is a necessary condition
for happy sexual relations between a husband and wife. He thinks that if
a husband and wife have thoughts and sexual fantasies about anyone other
than the spouse, their marriage will suffer, and the family will be
destroyed. From this cames all of his opposition to "pornogrpahy," and
everyhting else that makes life interesting (in the sexual sense.)
Based on my experience, I say this is bunk. My marriage is based on more than
sexual attractiveness, and depsite occasionally viewing "pornogrpahy,"
I still find my wife attractive. (We are pushing 50, by the way.) As
far as sex, I will do whatever it takes to keep her happy, which, it turns
out involves keeping _me_ happy. And I'm sure this works both ways. So
**anything** that I fanatasize about that works for me is, in my opinion, fair
game. If that means my college girlfriend from 30 years ago, so be it. Some
of this I'll share, and other stuff I won't, based on whether I think she
would be offended. For all I know, she's doing the same thing, and as
long as she doesn't belittle me, I don't care what she is fantasizing about.
Hey, as long as it feels good...
Now, as to whether Ms. Vuolo will find marital bliss as a result of having
posed in Playboy, that's sort of a non sequitur. She should realize that
that's not the purpose of posing there. As far as I can tell, the
purpose for the model is to collect the fee and perhaps use the exposure
to advance a career in the netertainment industry. Boteach seemed to make a
big deal that only 200 out of 500 Playmates have gone on to further
their careers in the industry, but given how hard it is to break into
show business, that may actually show that posing in Playboy _does_ help
your career.
Also, whether her posing attracts the "wrong" sort of male interest is also
a non-sequitur. Boteach seems to think that if men are allowed to look
at young hard-bodied women, they will desire _only_ young hard-bodied
women, and that this can be a problem for a woman as she and her husband
grow older. This is _not_ true. I don't know Boteach's age, but when
I got to my mid thirties, I was amazed at how a little grey hair in a woman
was tuning me on. In fact, I think many women in their 20's are immature,
so while the young harbdbody is attractive to look at, I would never want
to dump my wife for one. So what's the problem with my fantasizing about
them? Believe me Ms. Vuolo, as long as you have a good personality and
maintain a good relationship, your husband will not leave you when
you become middle aged, even if he _does_ read Playboy magazine.
Menachem
Jordi Sod
> YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
> persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
Let's look at the pictures. THEN we can decide if she did the wrong
thing. >;-)
> on the discussion board: "I agree w/ the points the Rabbi made - and I
> think she did too. She seemed dazed by the logic and was giving him
> the ammo he needed to shoot her vague answers down handidly."
>
> Yisroel Markov Boston, MA Member DNRC
Jordi
Yisroel Markov
wrote:
>ey.m...@iname.com (Yisroel Markov) wrote in message news:<2ffb2135.01112...@posting.google.com>...
>> Exclusive to www.Beliefnet.com
>>
>> "Is Pornography Harmful to Human Dignity and Human Relationships?"
>>
>> Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Interviews Lindsey Vuolo of Playboy
>>
>>
>> Lindsey Vuolo became the first overtly Jewish woman to pose for
>> Playboy Magazine.
>
>> This interview is available exclusively on Beliefnet.com, where Rabbi
>> Boteach is a writer.
>>
>> http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/93/story_9363_1.html&boardID=28862
>>
>> YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
>> persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
>> on the discussion board: "I agree w/ the points the Rabbi made - and I
>> think she did too. She seemed dazed by the logic and was giving him
>> the ammo he needed to shoot her vague answers down handidly."
>>
>
>I read this piece of fluff, and I wasn't impressed with either of them.
>Sure, Boteach scored debating points, but Vuolo didn't exactly
>come across as someone with lots of intellectual prowess. (I hesitiate
>to use the word "airhead," let's just give her the benefit of the doubt and
>say that it appeared she didn't do her homework before this sorry
>attempt at intellectual jousting with a Rabbi.) And I think that with a
>little bit of thinkin, it would be possible to refute Boteach, especially if
>you admit that you don't believe in Orthodox Judaism.
Which she did. She identified herself as C, and IIRC R' Boteach never
once referred to anything from, e.g., the Talmud - only common-sense
arguments.
>Basically, Botreach's schtick is that "modesty" is a necessary condition
>for happy sexual relations between a husband and wife. He thinks that if
>a husband and wife have thoughts and sexual fantasies about anyone other
>than the spouse, their marriage will suffer, and the family will be
>destroyed. From this cames all of his opposition to "pornogrpahy," and
>everyhting else that makes life interesting (in the sexual sense.)
I don't read him as quite that extreme. He never says anywhere:
"pornography will destroy your marriage" - that would contradict
reality. Rather, he says that it has a high potential for doing so, or
at least for doing some harm.
Based on *my* personal experience, I tend to agree with the above 3
paragraphs (with one exception). Nevertheless, halacha is very often
preventive rather than reactive. Since the potential for significant
harm is there, why get into its way?
The thing I disagree about is fantasizing. Gemara Nedarim 20b forbids
thinking of another woman when making love to one's wife - even if the
other woman is also his wife. R' Boteach reiterates this in his works.
I buy that line with hook and sinker :-) No offense and IMHO, but if
you don't need to picture a pneumatic 20-year-old in your mind to
maintain erection - in which case you *might* be justified by the
halachic need to satisfy your wife - then you have no halachic
business thinking about someone else.
Yisroel Markov Boston, MA Member DNRC
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Menachem Mavet
> ey.m...@iname.com (Yisroel Markov) wrote in message news:<2ffb2135.01112...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > YM: No big surprises in this interview. R' Boteach mostly tried to
> > persuade her that she did the wrong thing. One of the users commented
>
> Let's look at the pictures. THEN we can decide if she did the wrong
> thing. >;-)
>
No problem. Simply go to Google.com and do a web search on "Lindsey Vuolo."
You will find a large number of sites which had the images available
for inspection. A total copyright violation, I do not recommend
doing anything illegal, but I did inspected the images, merely for
research purposes, of course. <<ahem>>
No problems here. Sure, if I were away from home and she came up to me in a
bar, well, I'd be tempted to have some fun, but I wouldn't leave my wife
for her... :)
So there, Rabbi Boteach!!!
Colin Rosenthal
Yisroel Markov <ey.m...@iname.com> wrote:
>The thing I disagree about is fantasizing. Gemara Nedarim 20b forbids
>thinking of another woman when making love to one's wife - even if the
>other woman is also his wife. R' Boteach reiterates this in his works.
>I buy that line with hook and sinker :-) No offense and IMHO, but if
>you don't need to picture a pneumatic 20-year-old in your mind to
>maintain erection - in which case you *might* be justified by the
>halachic need to satisfy your wife - then you have no halachic
>business thinking about someone else.
>"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Does that include thinking about Ayn Rand in an effort to prolong the
experience?
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
Joel N. Shurkin
Rosenthal" <colin.r...@astro.uio.no> wrote:
That, sir, is the funniest posting of the week. Thanks.
J
Noach Shmaryahu Rothstein
It got a laugh out of me too. Mr. Rosenthal has some good lines.
- NSR
Dec. 02, p.m.