On the evils of smoking
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
smoking.
http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/06/06/call-me-informant/
--
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
cindys
> I _like_ what he did. I like _anything_ that may stop people from
> smoking.
>
> http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/06/06/call-me-informant/
>
--begin cite from above article:
But every time I see people—especially yeshiva students, who may soon
be married (or may have recently been) and who have their lives ahead
of them and are not yet likely nicotine-addicted—sucking on
cigarettes, I fantasize the bus of my dreams suddenly materializing
and driving slowly by. And, seeing the ad on its side, the young men
are reminded that with every inhalation of carbon particulates, tar,
carbon monoxide, nicotine, formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide,
arsenic, and DDT, they are not only flirting with, G-d forbid,
prematurely widowing their wives and orphaning their children but are
proclaiming themselves for all the world as fools.
--end cite---
In the now defunct _Jewish Observer_ magazine, there was once an
article that advised young Jewish women who were interested in a
shidduch (match), that they should tell the shadchan (matchmaker) that
they were not interested in dating any young man who smoked. I
remember one of the rabbis in my community wrote an angry letter to
the editor complaining about the article, saying that Jewish girls
were already having a difficult time finding shidduchim, and that it
was wrong for the author of the article to make it that much harder
for them by advising them that smoking should be a deal-breaker. I
personally agree with the author of the article. Being married to a
smoker is not a small thing.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
sheldonlg
What is going on cindy? We are agreeing on everything lately. :-)
--
Shelly
cindys
A few years ago, Steve and I were constantly at each other's throats.
Now, we agree at least 95% of the time. Life is interesting...
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
sheldonlg
Since it is not just with me, but also with Steve, could it be that it
is you that has changed?
--
Shelly
cindys
I think even 5 or 10 years ago, I would have agreed with you that
smoking was a legitimate deal-breaker. That said, although I probably
have changed my views in some areas (we're always growing and
changing), and I may agree with you more frequently than I did before,
I think Steve and I are generally in agreement more frequently than
you and I are in agreement. I think the reason for this is related to
the topics that we (Steve and I) seem to find of mutual interest more
so than for any other reason. You and Steve have different interests,
and this is reflected in the threads where you (or Steve) choose to
actively participate. FTR, if Joel were to start actively
participating in SCJM again, I would find his posts every bit as
problematic as I did before.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>
>> I _like_ what he did. I like _anything_ that may stop people from
>> smoking.
>>
>> http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/06/06/call-me-informant/
>>
> -----
> --begin cite from above article:
>
> be married (or may have recently been) and who have their lives ahead
> cigarettes, I fantasize the bus of my dreams suddenly materializing
> and driving slowly by. And, seeing the ad on its side, the young men
> are reminded that with every inhalation of carbon particulates, tar,
> carbon monoxide, nicotine, formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide,
> arsenic, and DDT, they are not only flirting with, G-d forbid,
> prematurely widowing their wives and orphaning their children but are
> proclaiming themselves for all the world as fools.
>
> --end cite---
>
> In the now defunct _Jewish Observer_ magazine, there was once an
> article that advised young Jewish women who were interested in a
> shidduch (match), that they should tell the shadchan (matchmaker) that
> they were not interested in dating any young man who smoked. I
> remember one of the rabbis in my community wrote an angry letter to
> the editor complaining about the article, saying that Jewish girls
> were already having a difficult time finding shidduchim, and that it
> was wrong for the author of the article to make it that much harder
> for them by advising them that smoking should be a deal-breaker. I
> personally agree with the author of the article. Being married to a
> smoker is not a small thing.
I remember that kerfuffle. I'm with you Cindy. Also, if enough
matchmakers heard that, they would pass the information on to the
boys!
Steve Goldfarb
>A few years ago, Steve and I were constantly at each other's throats.
>Now, we agree at least 95% of the time. Life is interesting...
Yeah that's funny, isn't it? Although I suspect we never disagreed as much
as we thought we did - we were to some degree taking positions and
mis-understanding the other's POV. I know I would get frustrated at what I
saw as inconsistencies in your arguements because I didn't understand that
you were defending certain things in principle, but didn't necessary agree
with them yourself. I didn't get where you were coming from. Now that I
do (or at least I think I do) it's a different story. Also, there were
certain polarizing characters here who contributed to how set each other
off, and they've left the stage.
Whatever the reasons, I'm glad we get along now! :-)
--s
--
Steve Goldfarb
>Since it is not just with me, but also with Steve, could it be that it=20
>is you that has changed?
I don't know that Cindy has "changed" but I think she has revealed more of
herself over the last couple of years, told us more about who she really
is as a person, and that's affected the way we relate to her. Back in the
olden days I used to get confused between her and Susan Cohen - now I
would never make that mistake.
BTW, I very much appreciate that's she's shared those elements of her life
with us - I've enjoyed getting to know her.
--s
--
sheldonlg
> In<ivg624$pko$2...@dont-email.me> sheldonlg<shel...@thevillages.net> writes:
>
>> Since it is not just with me, but also with Steve, could it be that it=20
>> is you that has changed?
>
> I don't know that Cindy has "changed" but I think she has revealed more of
> herself over the last couple of years, told us more about who she really
> is as a person, and that's affected the way we relate to her. Back in the
> olden days I used to get confused between her and Susan Cohen - now I
> would never make that mistake.
How could you ever make that mistake? I sometimes disagree with Cindy,
but whatever she writes is (a) consistent, (b) well thought out and (c)
well presented. Susan (flavia) Cohen did not have those qualities.
>
> BTW, I very much appreciate that's she's shared those elements of her life
> with us - I've enjoyed getting to know her.
Ditto.
--
Shelly
cindys
> On 7/12/2011 8:59 AM, Steve Goldfarb wrote:
>
>
> >> Since it is not just with me, but also with Steve, could it be that it=20
> >> is you that has changed?
>
> > I don't know that Cindy has "changed" but I think she has revealed more of
> > herself over the last couple of years, told us more about who she really
> > is as a person, and that's affected the way we relate to her. Back in the
> > olden days I used to get confused between her and Susan Cohen - now I
> > would never make that mistake.
>
> How could you ever make that mistake? I sometimes disagree with Cindy,
> but whatever she writes is (a) consistent, (b) well thought out and (c)
> well presented. Susan (flavia) Cohen did not have those qualities.
>
>
>
> > BTW, I very much appreciate that's she's shared those elements of her life
> > with us - I've enjoyed getting to know her.
>
> Ditto.
Ditto to both of you.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Tilly
news:ivhfs0$1i0$2...@reader1.panix.com...
> In <ivg624$pko$2...@dont-email.me> sheldonlg <shel...@thevillages.net>
> writes:
>
>>Since it is not just with me, but also with Steve, could it be that it=20
>>is you that has changed?
>
> I don't know that Cindy has "changed" but I think she has revealed more of
> herself over the last couple of years, told us more about who she really
> is as a person, and that's affected the way we relate to her. Back in the
> olden days I used to get confused between her and Susan Cohen - now I
> would never make that mistake.
Goodness me, how on earth could you have mistaken Susan for Cindy?
What has happened to Susan?
Tilly
news:2011Jul1...@mm.huji.ac.il...
Do many Haredim smoke Moshe?
sheldonlg
No, if they smoke they smoke cigarettes. :-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist
that you left out the comma after smoke and that changed the meaning).
--
Shelly
cindys
snip
>
> Goodness me, how on earth could you have mistaken Susan for Cindy?
> What has happened to Susan?
-----
At some point, she had a problem with her computer and was unable to
use it for several weeks (it may have been that her hard drive
crashed, I can't remember now), but apparently in the time interval
where she was without the computer, she realized that she had been
much more productive in other areas of her life and hadn't missed her
newsgroup participation, so she decided not to resume it.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Steve Goldfarb
>Goodness me, how on earth could you have mistaken Susan for Cindy?
>What has happened to Susan?
What I mean is long, long ago in a newsgroup far, far away (or, actually,
not) there would be certain threads in which the discussion would break
into "sides," where Cindy and Susan (among others) would be on the same
"side," and I would sometimes get confused about which one I was
responding to.
--s
--
Tilly
news:cf39d916-b0b6-495e...@gh5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
snip
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Is Susan's computer up and running again and is her email address the same?
Tilly
news:ivil86$cun$1...@dont-email.me...
Is Moshe smoking hot? ;-)
cindys
> "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cf39d916-b0b6-495e...@gh5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 12, 7:31 pm, "Tilly" <femail1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>
>
> > Goodness me, how on earth could you have mistaken Susan for Cindy?
> > What has happened to Susan?
>
> -----
> At some point, she had a problem with her computer and was unable to
> use it for several weeks (it may have been that her hard drive
> crashed, I can't remember now), but apparently in the time interval
> where she was without the computer, she realized that she had been
> much more productive in other areas of her life and hadn't missed her
> newsgroup participation, so she decided not to resume it.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
> Is Susan's computer up and running again and is her email address the same?
I would assume her computer is up and running, as all of the above
took place during the time she stopped posting which was at least a
year ago. At the time, I sent her an e-mail to check up on her and
make sure she was all right. Her e-mail address was the same at that
time, but I haven't corresponded with her since, so I don't know if
it's the same now. If you send her an e-mail, you'll find out quick
enough.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Tilly
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Cindy, I just wondered what had happened to her and how she is. She just
seemed to vanish.
I thought you would be in contact with her because you seemed to be good
friends.
Henry Goodman
news:ivikvv$cb8$1...@dont-email.me...
A lot of the schnorrers that come round in our shul nearly every day smell
strongly of cigarettes. I think that is an expensive habit which they should
drop if they are short of money.
--
Henry Goodman (who gave up smoking in 1967)
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
>
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
ROTFLOL! You gotta be kidding.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Too many.
> A lot of the schnorrers that come round in our shul nearly every
> day smell strongly of cigarettes. I think that is an expensive
> habit which they should drop if they are short of money.
Perhaps tell them that you won't contribute if they waste their
money on cigarettes.
sheldonlg
Being a man, I can't answer that. The real question is "Is smoking
Moshe hot?". :-)
--
Shelly
lee
> "Henry Goodman" <henry.good...@virgin.net> writes:
> > "Tilly" <femail1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Smoking is a lot more expensive in the UK than the US or Israel btw.
perhaps you tell the supplicants, that you wont contribute unless
they give up tailor made cigarettes & start rolling their own instead
(which is a lot, lot cheaper btw & more satisfying too). After all &
I'm sorry to quote the other lot again but 'the lord helps those who
helps themselves'
sheldonlg
> On Jul 13, 8:20 am, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>> "Henry Goodman"<henry.good...@virgin.net> writes:
>>> "Tilly"<femail1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> Do many Haredim smoke Moshe?
>>
>> Too many.
>>
>>> A lot of the schnorrers that come round in our shul nearly every
>>> day smell strongly of cigarettes. I think that is an expensive
>>> habit which they should drop if they are short of money.
>>
>> Perhaps tell them that you won't contribute if they waste their
>> money on cigarettes.
>>
>> --
>> Moshe Schorr
>> It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
>> The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
>> May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
>> btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
>> Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
>
> Smoking is a lot more expensive in the UK than the US or Israel btw.
More expensive than $5 for a pack of twenty?
> perhaps you tell the supplicants, that you wont contribute unless
> they give up tailor made cigarettes& start rolling their own instead
> (which is a lot, lot cheaper btw& more satisfying too). After all&
> I'm sorry to quote the other lot again but 'the lord helps those who
> helps themselves'
--
Shelly
(PeteCresswell)
>Smoking is a lot more expensive in the UK
Is the cost uniform across the UK?
In the USA it varies by state.
In a New Jersey store, I recently saw prices up around $8.00 USD
for a pack of (twenty?.... don't know how many are in a pack, but
20 seems about right).
--
PeteCresswell
cindys
That sounds about right to me, on the basis of what I've seen. Yes,
there are 20 cigarettes in a pack.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
> On 7/13/2011 8:22 AM, lee wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 8:20 am, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> >> "Henry Goodman"<henry.good...@virgin.net> writes:
> >>> "Tilly"<femail1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>> Do many Haredim smoke Moshe?
>
> >> Too many.
>
> >>> A lot of the schnorrers that come round in our shul nearly every
> >>> day smell strongly of cigarettes. I think that is an expensive
> >>> habit which they should drop if they are short of money.
>
> >> Perhaps tell them that you won't contribute if they waste their
> >> money on cigarettes.
>
> >> --
> >> Moshe Schorr
> >> It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
> >> The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
> >> May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
> >> btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
> >> Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
>
> > Smoking is a lot more expensive in the UK than the US or Israel btw.
>
> More expensive than $5 for a pack of twenty?
$5 for a pack of cigarettes? What universe are you from?? :) Clearly,
and happily, you don't smoke Shelly. Sometimes when I'm in the
drugstore or at a gas station, I see "special deals" on cigarettes
being advertised, which are generally between $7 and $8 for a single
pack. I would assume that means the regular price for a pack of
cigarettes is probably over $8. Cigarettes are cheaper by the carton,
obviously. That's also why people go to Indian Reservations to buy
cigarettes (the cigarettes are cheaper because the Indians are exempt
from charging/paying certain taxes).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Morris Goodman
The price of cigarettes in New York State is the highest in the
country. It's lowest in Missouri, of all places.
Henry Goodman
> On 7/13/2011 8:22 AM, lee wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 8:20 am, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>> "Henry Goodman"<henry.good...@virgin.net> writes:
>>>> "Tilly"<femail1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> Do many Haredim smoke Moshe?
>>>
>>> Too many.
>>>
>>>> A lot of the schnorrers that come round in our shul nearly every
>>>> day smell strongly of cigarettes. I think that is an expensive
>>>> habit which they should drop if they are short of money.
>>>
>>> Perhaps tell them that you won't contribute if they waste their
>>> money on cigarettes.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Moshe Schorr
>>> It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
>>> The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
>>> May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
>>> btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
>>> Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew
>>> University
>>
>> Smoking is a lot more expensive in the UK than the US or Israel btw.
>
> More expensive than $5 for a pack of twenty?
>
I haven't bought cigarettes for many years but a quick Google gave the
average price for popular brands to be £6.63 for 20 which is about $10. 77%
of that is tax.
--
Henry Goodman
lee
Tax rates are the same in the UK. From the sound of it smoking has
gone up quite a lot in the States since my last input of anecdotal
evidence.
Steve Goldfarb
>> Smoking is a lot more expensive in the UK than the US or Israel btw.
>More expensive than $5 for a pack of twenty?
In NYC they're $11 a pack.
--s
--
Tilly
news:878812f2-bac3-42ff...@p31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
In NZ the government is doing everything it can to end the smoking scourge.
Cigarettes are $12 pack of 20, $32 50 pack for roll your own ...
Prices will go up again next year.
Plain packaging with ghastly pics on them are under discussion. Australia
has already legislated for plain
packaging .
lee
Apparently a pack of 20 here is averaging at £7 so thats nearly 10
dollars, give or take an economic crisis or two, (BTW don't you have
state variation in taxes over there too) , rollups (rolling tobacco)
cost me just a little over that for the whole week
sheldonlg
it costs me a LOT less. I stopped smoking almost forty years ago.
--
Shelly
mm
The price is high in NY because NY law required the tobacco to be
harvested with a special knife, and the leaf veins have to be drained
before the tobacco can be dried.
(PeteCresswell)
>From the sound of it smoking has
>gone up quite a lot in the States since my last input of anecdotal
>evidence.
That is not my impression - although I'm living in a sort of
bubble of economic prosperity and relative (*relative*) lack of
base ignorance here in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area.
Smoking around here seems to have become both a class and a
character issue.
Class bc mostly only the poor and uneducated do it.
Character because an otherwise-intelligent adult who chooses
nicotine addiction seems to be suspect.
Case in point: one of the big financial institutions that I serve
(in a borderline-menial capacity) last year issued new rules on
smoking that boiled down to "We don't want the public to see our
people smoking, so anybody who smokes on the premises has to do
it only in *these* designated locations (all very much hidden
from the public)"
It seems like a logical extension of the dress code: "We have
investors walking around here that may not know how brilliant you
are and if you're dressed like a bum they will lose confidence."
to "....if they see that you have such poor judgment as to choose
nicotine addiction...."
--
PeteCresswell
Henry Goodman
news:hqbs17p4l7diktufc...@4ax.com...
blocks. Smokers go into the street, you see them huddled round doorways.
They look especially pathetic if it is raining.
--
Henry Goodman
cindys
> Per lee:
>
> >From the sound of it smoking has
> >gone up quite a lot in the States since my last input of anecdotal
> >evidence.
Statistically, it is either stable or continues to decrease.
snip
>
> Case in point: one of the big financial institutions that I serve
> (in a borderline-menial capacity) last year issued new rules on
> smoking that boiled down to "We don't want the public to see our
> people smoking, so anybody who smokes on the premises has to do
> it only in *these* designated locations (all very much hidden
> from the public)"
>
> It seems like a logical extension of the dress code: "We have
> investors walking around here that may not know how brilliant you
> are and if you're dressed like a bum they will lose confidence."
> to "....if they see that you have such poor judgment as to choose
> nicotine addiction...."
I don't think it's that deep. Smoking is a filthy, disgusting habit.
It's not that the investors may lose confidence because they will
think the employees exhibit poor judgment. I think it's more of a knee-
jerk reaction of disgust.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
> --
> PeteCresswell
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> On 7/12/2011 8:55 PM, Tilly wrote:
>> "sheldonlg" <shel...@thevillages.net> wrote in message
>>>> Do many Haredim smoke Moshe?
>>>
>>> No, if they smoke they smoke cigarettes. :-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist
>>> that you left out the comma after smoke and that changed the meaning).
>>
>> Is Moshe smoking hot? ;-)
>
> Being a man, I can't answer that. The real question is "Is smoking
> Moshe hot?". :-)
Enough.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
That sounds very good. The more it's discouraged, the more it will
hopefully disappear. But it won't happen anytime soon. :-(
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Tobbaco is a dirty weed
From the Devil it does proceed
It stains your fingers, burns your clothes
And makes a chimny out of your nose
-Anon-
Abe Kohen
I don't think it's that deep. Smoking is a filthy, disgusting habit.
It's not that the investors may lose confidence because they will
think the employees exhibit poor judgment. I think it's more of a knee-
jerk reaction of disgust.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on the cost of the product, as was discussed on scjm, and on simple
cost-benefit analysis, it indeed shows very poor fiscal judgment.
Not to say anything about health effects on the smokers and those around
his/her cone of carcinogens, nor about the stench that seeps into his/her
clothing.
Abe
lee
> On Jul 14, 2:26 am, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>
> > Per lee:
>
> > >From the sound of it smoking has
> > >gone up quite a lot in the States since my last input of anecdotal
> > >evidence.
>
> Statistically, it is either stable or continues to decrease.
>
Sorry, I meant to say the cost of smoking.
Although come to think of it, I wonder if women's smoking has
increased, in the USA as it has over here.
Abe Kohen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have quite a number of smoking hot women, but that has nothing to do with
cigarettes and cancer.
Abe
sheldonlg
> On Jul 14, 7:56 am, cindys<cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 14, 2:26 am, "(PeteCresswell)"<x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Per lee:
>>
>>> > From the sound of it smoking has
>>>> gone up quite a lot in the States since my last input of anecdotal
>>>> evidence.
>>
>> Statistically, it is either stable or continues to decrease.
>>
>
> Sorry, I meant to say the cost of smoking.
That is what I thought you meant from the context.
> Although come to think of it, I wonder if women's smoking has
> increased, in the USA as it has over here.
It did way back when. Now it is on the decrease.
What Pete said is correct. It has become a class (and age) thing. The
poor do it. The middle class and higher don't. Younger people smoke
more than older people. Where I live, in a 55 and over, middle class,
community, I doubt more that three percent or so smoke. It is
surprising to see anyone smoke.
--
Shelly
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> It's not that the investors may lose confidence because they will
> think the employees exhibit poor judgment. I think it's more of a knee-
> jerk reaction of disgust.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> simple cost-benefit analysis, it indeed shows very poor fiscal
> judgment.
>
> Not to say anything about health effects on the smokers and those
> around his/her cone of carcinogens, nor about the stench that seeps
> into his/her clothing.
I wanted to buy a sweater and went to the store. I didn't like the
fact that the storekeeper was smoking but I figured I'm not staying
long. But when I took a sweater off the shelf to try on, it _reeked_
from cigarette smoke. I put it back and quickly left the store!
sheldonlg
> "Abe Kohen"<abek...@gmail.com> writes:
>> "cindys"<cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>>
>> I don't think it's that deep. Smoking is a filthy, disgusting habit.
>> It's not that the investors may lose confidence because they will
>> think the employees exhibit poor judgment. I think it's more of a knee-
>> jerk reaction of disgust.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Based on the cost of the product, as was discussed on scjm, and on
>> simple cost-benefit analysis, it indeed shows very poor fiscal
>> judgment.
>>
>> Not to say anything about health effects on the smokers and those
>> around his/her cone of carcinogens, nor about the stench that seeps
>> into his/her clothing.
>
> I wanted to buy a sweater and went to the store. I didn't like the
> fact that the storekeeper was smoking but I figured I'm not staying
> long. But when I took a sweater off the shelf to try on, it _reeked_
> from cigarette smoke. I put it back and quickly left the store!
They allow smoking in stores in Israel?
--
Shelly
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
No, but it was the owner. So who was going to call the cops? Many
stores that I frequent will tell their staff "Stop smoking, he's here!.
Tilly
news:ivm3qo$2d0$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
That has been the law here for years. Yesterday the government announced
that no smoking
ads will be allowed anywhere in NZ from the beginning of next
year.Cigarettes for sale will have to be completely hidden from view.
Cigarette sales are banned to anyone under the age of 18.
Tilly
news:ivmgdv$a5c$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
.......and hair.
cindys
-----
Not at all! Smoking in the USA started decreasing in 1964, when the
first surgeon general's warning was issued, and percentage-wise, it
has been on the decrease ever since. According to the statistics, the
older a person is, the more likely he is to be a smoker (because he
started smoking so many years ago and hasn't been able to quit). Many
young people, happily, don't need to worry about quitting because they
aren't inclined to start.
From: http://www.ahealthblog.com/smoking-prevalence-in-us-decreases.html
"The population moderate-intensity smoking prevalence of 10 or more
cigarettes per day in 1965 was 11.1 percent in California and 10.5
percent in the remaining United States; in 2007, the prevalence in
California was 3.4 percent compared with 5.4 percent in the remaining
United States."
In the State of New York, smoking is pretty much prohibited just about
everywhere except in private homes and outside. Apartment buildings
vary on whether they allow smoking or not. Some public places even
prohibit smoking anywhere on their grounds. Other States also have
rules about smoking, but they are variable in how strict they are.
There may be some States that still have smoking/nonsmoking sections
in restaurants; I'm not sure. In New York State, smoking isn't
permitted in restaurants at all or in bars.
On June 21, a new law anti-smoking law was passed. From now on, there
will be new vivid pictures on packs of cigarettes in the USA,
depicting rotting teeth, diseased lungs, or a corpse. All cigarette
companies have until September 2012 to comply with the new law.
From: http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/06/21/cigarette.labels/index.html
"Cigarette packages will now carry one vivid color image and one of
these warnings about the consequences of smoking: "Cigarettes are
addictive"; "Tobacco smoke can harm your children"; "Cigarettes cause
fatal lung disease"; "Cigarettes cause cancer"; "Cigarettes cause
strokes and heart disease"; "Smoking during pregnancy can harm your
baby"; "Smoking can kill you"; "Tobacco smoke causes fatal lung
disease in nonsmokers"; and "Quitting smoking now greatly reduces
serious risks to your health."
The warnings, which must be in place by September 2012, will cover the
upper portion of the pack both front and back. At least 50% of the
package will have to be covered."
One of the biggest shocks that we had when we went to Rome was the
prevalence of cigarette smoking there. Everybody in Rome seems to
smoke, and smoking is allowed everywhere. I was surprised when I found
an ashtray in our room at the bed and breakfast. Every restaurant
allows smoking, and there isn't even such a thing as smoking/
nonsmoking sections. Young people, are walking up and down the street,
with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths. We even saw people on
their mopeds smoking cigarette. To us, as Americans, it was
unbelievable and extremely sad, especially seeing the young people
smoke.
FTR, I was quite pleased to hear my younger son say that when it comes
to addictive substances, if there is one thing in the world he
despises, it's cigarettes, much more so than even street drugs. The
public (government) schools have apparently done an excellent job of
educating children about the hazards of cigarette smoking (amongst
other things). Even my older son (who went to yeshiva and didn't have
the benefit of the government antismoking education) wouldn't touch a
cigarette with a 10-foot pole.
He hasn't forgotten the image of his grandfather a"h with his oxygen
machine. Even though my father a"h had quit smoking 15 years earlier,
it wasn't soon enough, and he suffered terribly with emphysema in the
final years of his life. He couldn't walk from the living room to the
bedroom or even eat dinner without being short of breath. The coffee
table in the living room was covered with his inhalers, and he
ultimately grew a mustache to protect his upper lip from the
irritation of the oxygen cannula. My children don't want to be around
anybody who's smoking either.
My younger son was visiting his friend at the friend's grandfather's
house. The grandfather (who is in his late 80s) was a chain smoker.
(My preference would have been that my son not be inside that house at
all because of all the smoke.) At any rate, when my son came home, he
took off his clothes in the entryway of our house and threw them in
the washing machine immediately because they reeked so badly.
But to return to the main question, smoking is definitely on the wane
in the USA, across the board. Hopefully, a time will come when nobody
will want to smoke.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
snip>
> What Pete said is correct. It has become a class (and age) thing. The
> poor do it. The middle class and higher don't. Younger people smoke
> more than older people.
Actually, (on the basis of a little internet research), statistically-
speaking, they don't. The largest group of smokers are the people who
were born in the 1920s, and it decreases from there on the basis of
age. These statistics are based not only on the number of people who
smoke but also on the number of cigarettes those who do smoke are
actually smoking. So, the results may be skewed a little bit because
older smokers tend to also be the ones who will smoke 2 packs/day, for
example, as opposed to 1/2 pack/day for a middle-aged or younger
smoker.
(Obviously, the main reason for this is because older people got
hooked before the dangers of cigarettes were known).
>Where I live, in a 55 and over, middle class,
> community, I doubt more that three percent or so smoke. It is
> surprising to see anyone smoke.
I believe you. I remember one time I was coming out of shul (a
relatively small shul), and it suddenly struck me that I didn't know
of even one synagogue member who was a smoker. When my husband's
boyhood friend was visiting us last month, I was really taken aback
when I smelled cigarette smoke on him. I don't know where or when he
was smoking, certainly not in our house. The subject never even came
up. We don't have any other friends that smoke (that we know of). To
be honest, in thinking about it, I would be hardpressed to name even
one acquaintance who smokes (that I know of).
At the yeshiva, some of the rabbeim and a few of the bochurim
(students) are/were smokers. This has decreased as well. My son told
me that the principal had passed a new rule that if a bochur were a
smoker, he had to leave the yeshiva and could not return until he
stopped smoking.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Ken
> I _like_ what he did. I like _anything_ that may stop people from
> smoking.
>
> http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/06/06/call-me-informant/
>
> --
> Moshe Schorr
This headline was in my daily email from the Sacramento (California)
Bee:
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/14/3768359/smoking.html
It says smoking is at a low for adults in California, with a huge drop-
off during the last twenty years or so.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Henry Goodman
____________________________________________________________________________
I remember when shuls used to have a lighted candle available on Yom Tov so
that people could light their cigarettes on the way out of shul. In other
shuls the non-Jewish caretaker used to provide a light.
sheldonlg
> There may be some States that still have smoking/nonsmoking sections
> in restaurants;
Either North of South Caraolina is one.
--
Shelly
cindys
> "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> I remember when shuls used to have a lighted candle available on Yom Tov so
> that people could light their cigarettes on the way out of shul. In other
> shuls the non-Jewish caretaker used to provide a light.
When I was in college, students could smoke in the classrooms. All the
lecture halls were equipped with built-in ashtrays in the armrests. I
also have a vague recollection of smoking being allowed in movie
theaters. When I was a toddler, I remember sitting in the front seat
of the car between my parents (no car seat, no seatbelts, obviously).
My father a"h would always smoke in the car. I think my mother did
too, but I don't remember that quite so clearly.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Susan S
<shel...@thevillages.net>:
Wikipedia has a list of smoking bans by state. South Carolina does not
have a statewide ban, but specific areas can have their own and there
are places that do not allow smoking in restaurants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States
Susan Silberstein
sheldonlg
A few years back I was in one on a trip north in December on a Sunday.
I stopped to watch the Patriots.
--
Shelly
Art Werschulz
cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
> When I was a toddler, I remember sitting in the front seat of the car
> between my parents (no car seat, no seatbelts, obviously). My father
> a"h would always smoke in the car. I think my mother did too, but I
> don't remember that quite so clearly.
I have the same memory, except that I was in the back seat with my
parents (a"h) smoking in the front seat---on a cold day with the heater
blasting. I wonder if that has anything to do with the headaches I
constantly had as a kid.
In all fairness to that generation, *everybody* smoked. Doctors would
light up with their patients after giving them a physical exam. Fancy
cigarette lighters were a standard wedding gift. And so forth.
Moreover, I grew up in Kentucky, where smoking was the national pastime
(okay, mixed metaphor, but you get the drift ... of the smoke). Somehow
I managed to never have touched a cigarette. That's a good thing,
because I know that I would've been a three-pack-a-day person, just like
Mom and Dad. And those cigarettes clearly led to my Dad's demise at the
age of 62 (heart attack); my Mom lived past her 80th birthday, but she
had smoking-related emphysema, which eventually killed her.
ObJewish content: Shmirat ha-nefesh is a big mitzvah. Don't smoke.
--
Art Werschulz (agw STRUDEL comcast.net)
... insert clever quote here ...
Tilly
news:2011Jul1...@mm.huji.ac.il...
Here's what King James I had to say about tobacco. It seems to have been all
pipe smoking in his day. Tobacco had been only
been around for a little while.
"Have you not reason then to be ashamed and to forbear this filthy novelty,
so basely grounded, so foolishly received and so grossly mistaken in the
right use thereof. In your abuse thereof sinning against God harming
yourselves both in person and goods, and raking also thereby the marks and
notes of vanity upon you by the custom thereof making yourselves to be
wondered at by all foreign civil nations and by all strangers that come
among you to be scorned and held in contemp; a custom loathsome to the eye,
hateful to the nose, harmful to the brain, dangerous to the lungs, and in
the black stinking fume thereof nearest resembling the horrible stygian
smoke of the pit that is bottomless."
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Me too.
> At the yeshiva, some of the rabbeim and a few of the bochurim
> (students) are/were smokers. This has decreased as well. My son told
> me that the principal had passed a new rule that if a bochur were a
> smoker, he had to leave the yeshiva and could not return until he
> stopped smoking.
Excellent.
When our girls were looking for shidduchim, one of the first
questions asked was if the boy smokes. A "yes" would make us stop
right there. One time we "forgot" to ask the question, and by the
time we remembered, it was too late! But our daughter was so
anti-smoking, she made him crazy. No smoking in the house was the
first rule. I'm sure there were more. Bottom line, he has totally
stopped. And no one else even started.
mm
Why is forgot in quotes but remembered isn't?
>time we remembered, it was too late! But our daughter was so
>anti-smoking, she made him crazy. No smoking in the house was the
>first rule. I'm sure there were more. Bottom line, he has totally
>stopped. And no one else even started.
So she married the boy you forgot to ask about. What would have
hapepned if you had remembered.!
Yisroel Markov
<cst...@rochester.rr.com> said:
[snip]
>FTR, I was quite pleased to hear my younger son say that when it comes
>to addictive substances, if there is one thing in the world he
>despises, it's cigarettes, much more so than even street drugs. The
>public (government) schools have apparently done an excellent job of
>educating children about the hazards of cigarette smoking (amongst
>other things).
[scratching head] "Much more so than even street drugs"? That's a
weird kind of education, IMHO.
[snip]
>But to return to the main question, smoking is definitely on the wane
>in the USA, across the board. Hopefully, a time will come when nobody
>will want to smoke.
Agreed. The billions of dollars that US governments currently collect
in tobacco taxes can be put to better use by the citizens. Although I
suspect that by the time tobacco use is practically non-existent, many
if not all other drugs will be legal. At least marijuana, and in good
part for the above reason - to replace lost tobacco tax revenue.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
snip
>>When our girls were looking for shidduchim, one of the first
>>questions asked was if the boy smokes. A "yes" would make us stop
>>right there. One time we "forgot" to ask the question, and by the
>
> Why is forgot in quotes but remembered isn't?
See below.
>>time we remembered, it was too late! But our daughter was so
>>anti-smoking, she made him crazy. No smoking in the house was the
>>first rule. I'm sure there were more. Bottom line, he has totally
>>stopped. And no one else even started.
>
> So she married the boy you forgot to ask about. What would have
> hapepned if you had remembered.!
She would not have married him. Since this _was_ her "destined" it
worked out that we "forgot". By the time that we remembered it was
too late. None of us are sorry.
cindys
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:21:54 +0000 (UTC), cindys
> <cste...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>
> [snip]
>
> >FTR, I was quite pleased to hear my younger son say that when it comes
> >to addictive substances, if there is one thing in the world he
> >despises, it's cigarettes, much more so than even street drugs. The
> >public (government) schools have apparently done an excellent job of
> >educating children about the hazards of cigarette smoking (amongst
> >other things).
>
> [scratching head] "Much more so than even street drugs"? That's a
> weird kind of education, IMHO.
I'm not saying that the school teaches tobacco is worse than street
drugs. I think they just present information. I was citing my son's
own personal opinion. He is against both street drugs and tobacco, but
apparently, he dislikes tobacco more. Maybe because it's more
visible.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>
> [snip]
>
> >But to return to the main question, smoking is definitely on the wane
> >in the USA, across the board. Hopefully, a time will come when nobody
> >will want to smoke.
>
> Agreed. The billions of dollars that US governments currently collect
> in tobacco taxes can be put to better use by the citizens. Although I
> suspect that by the time tobacco use is practically non-existent, many
> if not all other drugs will be legal. At least marijuana, and in good
> part for the above reason - to replace lost tobacco tax revenue.
> --
> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Memberwww.reason.com-- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
cycjec
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> I _like_ what he did. I like _anything_ that may stop people from
> smoking.
> http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/06/06/call-me-informant/
the ads are ... memorable. I concur with his request.
cycjec
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
> I _like_ what he did. I like _anything_ that may stop people from
> smoking.
well, here's another recommendation I just happened to see.
I looked at the book; being a non-smoker I left it for someone
else to buy. [I think someone else *did* buy it]
I think Mr. Carr has a book out with advice for non-smokers too.
Sundry quotes from:
Exiled Warrior: Mission Complete-A Thanks to Allen Carr
http://dovidsthoughts.blogspot.com/2011/03/mission-complete-thanks-to-allen-carr.html
Thursday, March 3, 2011
Mission Complete-A Thanks to Allen Carr
A year ago on March 3rd, my life was saved. I was dying. Not a quick
and sudden death, but a slow and drawn out one. I had been smoking
cigarettes for about six years, and it was certainly taking a toll on
my health, thankfully, I was saved before it became anything fatal.
One day, Hashem had mercy upon my charcoaled lungs and gave me the
inspiration to pick up the "Smokers Bible" (a nickname given to the
book by ex-smokers). I began in the morning, planning to read a chapter
or two and then put it back in its dusty shelf space; I did not realize
today was going to be the last day I would ever smoke.
It has been a year now, and because of one man, Allen Carr, I am alive
again.
Let us learn from Allen Carr, not just the way to quit smoking, but
also the importance of completing our mission. We don't know why we are
put in the situations that we find ourselves in, all we know is that we
are there, and that He wants us to be there. We must continue to strive
for greatness, to try and better ourselves. If you have something to
say that you think will help, don't be afraid to shout it from the
rooftops. If you have the inspiration to better the world, don't let
anything stop you. It may be your mission, your raison d'?tre, you
certainly don't want to miss it.
May we all merit the strength to continue to become who we were meant
to become, and utilize all that is in front of us to complete our G-dly
mission. Amen.
Yisroel Markov
>cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
[snip]
>> At the yeshiva, some of the rabbeim and a few of the bochurim
>> (students) are/were smokers. This has decreased as well. My son told
>> me that the principal had passed a new rule that if a bochur were a
>> smoker, he had to leave the yeshiva and could not return until he
>> stopped smoking.
>
>Excellent.
>
>When our girls were looking for shidduchim, one of the first
>questions asked was if the boy smokes. A "yes" would make us stop
>right there. One time we "forgot" to ask the question, and by the
>time we remembered, it was too late!
IMHO this demonstrates the lack of connection between smoking and
character. The "right" person could be a smoker.
>But our daughter was so
>anti-smoking, she made him crazy. No smoking in the house was the
>first rule. I'm sure there were more. Bottom line, he has totally
>stopped. And no one else even started.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
Abe Kohen
"Yisroel Markov" <ey.m...@MUNGiname.com> wrote in message
news:oje827pakcfogf1he...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 06:30:57 +0000 (UTC), mos...@mm.huji.ac.il said:
>
>>cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> At the yeshiva, some of the rabbeim and a few of the bochurim
>>> (students) are/were smokers. This has decreased as well. My son told
>>> me that the principal had passed a new rule that if a bochur were a
>>> smoker, he had to leave the yeshiva and could not return until he
>>> stopped smoking.
>>
>>Excellent.
>>
>>When our girls were looking for shidduchim, one of the first
>>questions asked was if the boy smokes. A "yes" would make us stop
>>right there. One time we "forgot" to ask the question, and by the
>>time we remembered, it was too late!
>
> IMHO this demonstrates the lack of connection between smoking and
> character. The "right" person could be a smoker.
No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now about
its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
V'nishmartem m'ode al naf-sho-teichem.
Best,
Abe
cindys
snip
>
> No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now about
> its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
-----
And we also know about the effects of saturated fats and transfats and
sugars on coronary artery disease and diabetes, yet people continue to
overeat, supersize, and drink sugary soft drinks. We know about the
importance of exercise for overall health, yet people continue to be
couch potatoes. There may not be any second-hand smoke involved, but
these things still have a negative impact on a person's loved ones.
Obviously, you've never been addicted to cigarettes. It doesn't have
anything to do with character. It's all about physiology (addiction to
nicotine). It's been said that it's harder to quit tobacco than to
quit heroin. I find that a little difficult to believe, but the point
is that for some people quitting smoking is nearly impossible. That's
why some people "quit" multiple times, start smoking again, quit
again, etc. That's why people desperately try nicotine patches,
Chantix, hypnosis, acupuncture, etc. Only some of them are successful.
That's why you will even see some people who have had throat cancer
continuing to smoke through a thoracostomy tube. I'm not sure what
distinguishes the successful quitter from the unsuccessful one, but
I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with one's character.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>
> V'nishmartem m'ode al naf-sho-teichem.
>
> Best,
> Abe- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Abe Kohen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about character. I quit the day I got married. Wouldn't be fair to
blow smoke on the wife or kids (they came later!).
My uncle quit at age 60, when the surgeon general's report came out. Went
cold turkey. It's all about character.
The smoker is NOT a victim. Not after the day the surgeon general's report
came out.
Best,
Abe
mm
<ey.m...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:21:54 +0000 (UTC), cindys
><cst...@rochester.rr.com> said:
>
>[snip]
>
>>FTR, I was quite pleased to hear my younger son say that when it comes
>>to addictive substances, if there is one thing in the world he
>>despises, it's cigarettes, much more so than even street drugs. The
>>public (government) schools have apparently done an excellent job of
>>educating children about the hazards of cigarette smoking (amongst
>>other things).
>
>[scratching head] "Much more so than even street drugs"? That's a
>weird kind of education, IMHO.
>
>[snip]
>
>>But to return to the main question, smoking is definitely on the wane
>>in the USA, across the board. Hopefully, a time will come when nobody
>>will want to smoke.
>
>Agreed. The billions of dollars that US governments currently collect
>in tobacco taxes can be put to better use by the citizens. Although I
>suspect that by the time tobacco use is practically non-existent, many
>if not all other drugs will be legal. At least marijuana, and in good
>part for the above reason - to replace lost tobacco tax revenue.
I didn't want to smoke marijuana. I was afraid it would lead to other
things, mostly cigarettes.
(since now I choke on smoke.)
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
Indeed Cicy. When I saw Abe's post I refrained from responding, even
though he was supporting me. I too know people who have "quit" many
times and are trying desperately to cut down.
When we used smoling as a test for prospective shidduchim, it was
not about character. We just didn't want to get into the hassle of a
potentialy sick son-in-law.
(PeteCresswell)
>No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now about
>its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
I'd cut addicted smokers a little slack based on the anecdote in
"Licit & Illicit Drugs" by Edward M Brecher and the Editors of
Consumer Reports (Little, Brown and Company - Boston - Toronto,
1972)
On Page 217, referring to Synanon's 1970 decision to ban smoking
and stop distributing cigarettes to it's members:
"'With most drugs, " one Synanon resident explained, 'You get
over the symptoms in a few days, a week at most. But with
tobacco, we've noticed them for at least six months.' Another,
who had personally 'kicked' both heroin and tobacco, made a
comparison of the two even more startling than Dr. Dole's:
'It was much easier to quit heroin than cigarettes.'" (New York
Times May 23, 1971)
--
PeteCresswell
cindys
> "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> It's all about character. I quit the day I got married. Wouldn't be fair to
> blow smoke on the wife or kids (they came later!).
Well, that's you. The strength of the addiction varies for different
people. There are people who used to smoke who were not addicted, and
they were able to walk away from the cigarettes without giving it
another thought.
There are obese people who make up their minds to lose weight and do
so. There are others who can't seem to stick to a diet and exercise no
matter what they do. We are not all genetically the same.
Why did you wait until you were married to quit? Didn't you know about
the ill effects of smoking before then?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
I used to smoke. I finally quit in 1995. It was one of the hardest
things I ever did, and I had already tried multiple times. I
eventually quit by cutting down gradually over the course of a whole
summer. This would not work for a lot of people. Everyone is
different. I haven't had a cigarette in 16 years, but you can't
imagine how much I still want one. I sometimes still have dreams that
I'm smoking. I have no doubt that if I ever smoked even one cigarette
again, I would be back to smoking a pack every day within a week.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
(PeteCresswell)
>'It was much easier to quit heroin than cigarettes.'" (New York
>Times May 23, 1971)
The abstract is here:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00E16F8355F127A93C1AB178ED85F458785F9
I'm registered w/the site, but cannot figure out how to get the
detail. Maybe greater minds than mine...
--
PeteCresswell
lee
You are probably joking, but that is exactly what happened to me.
mm
wrote:
Wow.
That wasn't the only reason. I won't even take aspirin unless I
really need it, and when I got out of hte hostpital after they cut
holes in me, and they gave me a prescription for tylenol with
codeiine, just got tylenol instead.
But I did think of cirgarettes as another reason not to try marijuana
I haven't had a puff on a cigarette since I was 5 or 6, when my uncle
gave me one. I still remember where he was sitting and I was
standing. Then I choked and they all laughed. I don't know if it was
a way to get me to not smoke, a practical joke to give him a laugh, or
if he thought I might like it. For a long time I assumed the fistt.
I guess I've gotten more cynical lately that I even consider the other
two, but I'm pretty sure it was the first.
I still remember where I was when I learded to pronounce tsadee, too,
at age 5.
sheldonlg
> On Jul 20, 7:11 am, "(PeteCresswell)"<x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>> Per Abe Kohen:
>>
>>> No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now about
>>> its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
>>
>> I'd cut addicted smokers a little slack based on the anecdote in
>> Consumer Reports (Little, Brown and Company - Boston - Toronto,
>> 1972)
>>
>> On Page 217, referring to Synanon's 1970 decision to ban smoking
>> and stop distributing cigarettes to it's members:
>>
>> "'With most drugs, " one Synanon resident explained, 'You get
>> over the symptoms in a few days, a week at most. But with
>> tobacco, we've noticed them for at least six months.' Another,
>> who had personally 'kicked' both heroin and tobacco, made a
>> comparison of the two even more startling than Dr. Dole's:
>>
>> 'It was much easier to quit heroin than cigarettes.'" (New York
>> Times May 23, 1971)
> ------
> I used to smoke. I finally quit in 1995. It was one of the hardest
> things I ever did, and I had already tried multiple times. I
> eventually quit by cutting down gradually over the course of a whole
> summer. This would not work for a lot of people. Everyone is
> different. I haven't had a cigarette in 16 years, but you can't
> imagine how much I still want one. I sometimes still have dreams that
> I'm smoking. I have no doubt that if I ever smoked even one cigarette
> again, I would be back to smoking a pack every day within a week.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
Funny you should say that. I haven't smoked in forty years. I quite by
taking three cigarettes into work with me for two days, two for two, one
for two and then none. It worked. After a week the habit of reaching
to my shirt pocked stopped.
After a month, I decided to see if I still like it so I got a "Yenem's".
I took one puff, liked it, and quickly snuffed it out.
After six months I found that I had developed an intolerance for the
smell of the stuff. I was far more sensitive to the objectionable smell
than before I had ever smoked. I truly believe that "reformed smokers"
have more of a negative physical to the smoke than people who never
smoked. I don't think it is evangelical in nature. I think it is physical.
--
Shelly
lee
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:22:48 +0000 (UTC), lee <schotn...@gmail.com>
Actually my uncle Cecil & my dad did that too & I was about 5 or 6
too! I recon it was to put me off, but then again I dont really
believe I had any intentions of starting smoking at that age. My uncle
unfortunately smoked 60+ per day so I remember him dying very young
too.
cindys
> cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
> > "Abe Kohen" <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > snip
>
> >> No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now
> >> about its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
> > -----
> > And we also know about the effects of saturated fats and transfats and
> > sugars on coronary artery disease and diabetes, yet people continue to
> > overeat, supersize, and drink sugary soft drinks. We know about the
> > importance of exercise for overall health, yet people continue to be
> > couch potatoes. There may not be any second-hand smoke involved, but
> > these things still have a negative impact on a person's loved ones.
>
> > Obviously, you've never been addicted to cigarettes. It doesn't have
> > anything to do with character. It's all about physiology (addiction to
> > nicotine). It's been said that it's harder to quit tobacco than to
> > quit heroin. I find that a little difficult to believe, but the point
> > is that for some people quitting smoking is nearly impossible. That's
> > why some people "quit" multiple times, start smoking again, quit
> > again, etc. That's why people desperately try nicotine patches,
> > Chantix, hypnosis, acupuncture, etc. Only some of them are successful.
> > That's why you will even see some people who have had throat cancer
> > continuing to smoke through a thoracostomy tube. I'm not sure what
> > distinguishes the successful quitter from the unsuccessful one, but
> > I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with one's character.
>
> though he was supporting me. I too know people who have "quit" many
> times and are trying desperately to cut down.
>
> When we used smoling as a test for prospective shidduchim, it was
> not about character. We just didn't want to get into the hassle of a
> potentialy sick son-in-law.
Exactly.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
W. Baker
: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------?--------------------
: >
: > It's all about character. I quit the day I got married. Wouldn't be fair to
: > blow smoke on the wife or kids (they came later!).
: -----
: Well, that's you. The strength of the addiction varies for different
: people. There are people who used to smoke who were not addicted, and
: they were able to walk away from the cigarettes without giving it
: another thought.
: There are obese people who make up their minds to lose weight and do
: so. There are others who can't seem to stick to a diet and exercise no
: matter what they do. We are not all genetically the same.
: Why did you wait until you were married to quit? Didn't you know about
: the ill effects of smoking before then?
: Best regards,
: ---Cindy S.
: >
: > My uncle quit at age 60, when the surgeon general's report came out. Went
: > cold turkey. It's all about character.
: >
: > The smoker is NOT a victim. Not after the day the surgeon general's report
: > came out.
: >
: > Best,
: > Abe
I gave up smokking when my older son was in the first grade. I heard, on
the 10 o'clock news abou tthe harm o those around you. I was hit with hte
thought that I had brought these lives into the world and did not want to
cause them to leave it prematurely. I put out the sigarete i was smoking
and have not had one since. It w sheer H-ll! I, fortunatly, had another
kindergarten mother who had, herslf, quit. she tol d me I could call her
any time if I started to weaken. I didn't have to do so much, but just
knowing that she ws there helped. You have to find your own stron
motivation adn knwo that the withdral, both physicaly and habitually(for
want of a beter word), like reacing for a cigarette with yoru coffee,
etc., will be horrific. If you can bear through it you migh well succeed.
It is no fun to go from 2 packs a day to nothing, but i kew tapering would
never work for me. I don't think it was character, but love that gave me
the strength to stop.
Wendy Baker
W. Baker
: On Jul 20, 7:11?am, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
: > Per Abe Kohen:
: >
: > >No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now about
: > >its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
: >
: > I'd cut addicted smokers a little slack based on the anecdote in
: > "Licit & Illicit Drugs" by Edward M Brecher and the Editors of
: > Consumer Reports (Little, Brown and Company - Boston - Toronto,
: > 1972)
: >
: > On Page 217, referring to Synanon's 1970 decision to ban smoking
: > and stop distributing cigarettes to it's members:
: >
: > "'With most drugs, " one Synanon resident explained, 'You get
: > tobacco, we've noticed them for at least six months.' ?Another,
: > who had personally 'kicked' both heroin and tobacco, made a
: > comparison of the two even more startling than Dr. Dole's:
: >
: > 'It was much easier to quit heroin than cigarettes.'" (New York
: > Times May 23, 1971)
: ------
: I used to smoke. I finally quit in 1995. It was one of the hardest
: things I ever did, and I had already tried multiple times. I
: eventually quit by cutting down gradually over the course of a whole
: summer. This would not work for a lot of people. Everyone is
: different. I haven't had a cigarette in 16 years, but you can't
: imagine how much I still want one. I sometimes still have dreams that
: I'm smoking. I have no doubt that if I ever smoked even one cigarette
: again, I would be back to smoking a pack every day within a week.
: Best regards,
: ---Cindy S.
Cindy, I found tht I had tohse smoking dreams for many years(It is now
almost 40 years since I stopped). I no longer have them and no longer
have smoking longings and no inerest in tryng a cigarette. I think it
does finally go away, but it takes a heck of a long time.
Wendy
(PeteCresswell)
>Well, that's you. The strength of the addiction varies for different
>people.
I'll support that with an anecdote.
My late brother and father both knew smoking was going to kill
them before their time. Both were very strong-willed people,
and both tried to quit more than once. But both were unable to
do so.
I, on the other hand used to smoke at least a pack of cigarettes
each night in college.
In contrast to my brother and father, one day I just said to
myself "I don't want to do this any more"...and that was the end
of it.
Having been trying to lose 10 pounds for the last 20 years and
succeeding only in gaining seven, I would say that if my quitting
took will power, I'd be smoking today.
My conclusion: my father and brother were strongly addicted to
nicotine and I, by some very good fortune, was not.
--
PeteCresswell
Tilly
news:j071nh$pdk$2...@reader1.panix.com...
I did the same Wendy when my husband wagered I couldn't give up.I put out
the cigarette
I was smoking and haven't had another since It was difficult, but I kept my
hands
busy by knotting three quite large rugs to keep my hands busy ,chewing
gum.to stop
my mouth from going dry and drinking a lot of water.
I ended up rid of the habit and with 3 nice rugs for the house.
Tilly
--------------------------
Really? I have never hankered for another cigarette, especially as health
improved
almost immediately and I no longer had the horrible taste in my mouth in the
morning.
Abe Kohen
Call it love. Call it character. Either way you stopped because of the
impact it had on OTHERS.
I cringe when I see a parent smoking right next to their small child. Lack
of love? I don't think so. Lack of character.
Best,
Abe
Abe Kohen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not quite. He left out the potentially sick granchildren (children of his
daughter & s-i-l).
Best,
Abe
cindys
So, they find someplace else to smoke. That's what I used to do when
my son was little and I hadn't quit yet. I would smoke outside or in
the garage, never in his vicinity. I would presume I am not the only
smoking parent who has handled the situation this way. I guess I just
didn't have any "character."
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>> Per Abe Kohen:
>>
>>>No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know now
>>>about its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
>>
>> I'd cut addicted smokers a little slack based on the anecdote in
>> "Licit & Illicit Drugs" by Edward M Brecher and the Editors of
>> Consumer Reports (Little, Brown and Company - Boston - Toronto,
>> 1972)
>>
>> On Page 217, referring to Synanon's 1970 decision to ban smoking
>> and stop distributing cigarettes to it's members:
>>
>> "'With most drugs, " one Synanon resident explained, 'You get
>> tobacco, we've noticed them for at least six months.' =A0Another,
>> who had personally 'kicked' both heroin and tobacco, made a
>> comparison of the two even more startling than Dr. Dole's:
>>
>> 'It was much easier to quit heroin than cigarettes.'" (New York
>> Times May 23, 1971)
> ------
> I used to smoke. I finally quit in 1995. It was one of the hardest
> things I ever did, and I had already tried multiple times.
Good for you.
> I eventually quit by cutting down gradually over the course of a
> whole summer. This would not work for a lot of people. Everyone is
> different. I haven't had a cigarette in 16 years, but you can't
> imagine how much I still want one. I sometimes still have dreams that
> I'm smoking. I have no doubt that if I ever smoked even one cigarette
> again, I would be back to smoking a pack every day within a week.
I never smoked. My father A"H told me; "I tried them all, cigarette,
cigar, pipe and they're valueless". I took his word for it and never
tried. But from what I see, I can tell it's a _huge_ temptation.
That's why I can't understand how yeshivas allow their students to
smoke. If you don't start, you don't need it.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
>
> I gave up smokking when my older son was in the first grade. I heard, on
> the 10 o'clock news abou tthe harm o those around you. I was hit with hte
> thought that I had brought these lives into the world and did not want to
> cause them to leave it prematurely. I put out the sigarete i was smoking
> and have not had one since. It w sheer H-ll! I, fortunatly, had another
> kindergarten mother who had, herslf, quit. she tol d me I could call her
> any time if I started to weaken. I didn't have to do so much, but just
> knowing that she ws there helped. You have to find your own stron
> motivation adn knwo that the withdral, both physicaly and habitually(for
> want of a beter word), like reacing for a cigarette with yoru coffee,
> etc., will be horrific. If you can bear through it you migh well succeed.
>
> It is no fun to go from 2 packs a day to nothing, but i kew tapering would
> never work for me. I don't think it was character, but love that gave me
> the strength to stop.
>
> Wendy Baker
What a beautiful reason.
I had a similar experience. I _love_ the skin of roasted chicken.
One day I read an article in the Jewish Press about how unhealthy
it was. That _did_ it. I've never had it since.
Nick Cramer
> cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> : On Jul 19, 11:54?pm, "Abe Kohen" <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> : > "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
> : > snip
> : > > No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know
> : > > now about
> : > > its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
Addiction - Shmaddiction! It is habituation and boredom! I know exactly
where that cigarette fits in my fingers and where to place it between my
lips. The perfect activity when I have nothing to do with my hands
(masturbation is verboten)! Everything we do is a matter of habit. There
are good ones and bad ones. Smoking is a bad one. I finally stopped four
months ago, after smoking for 64 years. No withdrawal.
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ http://anymarine.com/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/
You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~
Yisroel Markov
IMHO the truth is somewhere in between. People are different. I've
read a MD with a couple of decades of experience treating drug addicts
stating unequivocally that in the vast majority of cases the cocaine,
heroin, etc. addicts are not chemically dependent on the drug. Rather,
they're addicted to the endorphin high it produces. Sex addiction
works in a very similar way, BTW, and is as difficult to kick for
those so afflicted.
It then becomes a question of how much effort a person is willing to
expend to put up with the endorphin withdrawal - how capable they are
of handling life's challenges without artificial endorphin flushes.
That's where character comes in.
However, there are drugs that work differently. Those that affect the
serotonin cycle produce relaxation and anxiety reduction, but they
also promote resistance which turns into a backlash reaction once the
drug is withdrawn. In cases of such genuine chemical dependency, as in
a minority of heroin-group cases (where the individual's metabolism is
slightly different or the amounts used are so high as to actually
insinuate the drug into it), or a majority of nicotine cases, the
individual's job fighting the withdrawal effects is that much harder,
and the effects are not limited to lack of endorphin.
(The above is an over-simplification of the drug interaction
mechanisms, of course, but I believe the overall message is correct.)
>The smoker is NOT a victim. Not after the day the surgeon general's report
>came out.
IMHO the user is almost never a victim, not unless they're forced to
start using.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
sheldonlg
When I stopped smoking forty years ago, my wife hadn't as yet. She
would go outside to smoke so that it would not be in the house. She did
this even in the middle of a New England winter.
--
Shelly
sheldonlg
> "W. Baker"<wba...@panix.com> wrote:
>> cindys<cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> : On Jul 19, 11:54?pm, "Abe Kohen"<abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> :> "cindys"<cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>> :> ... On Jul 19, 8:06 pm, "Abe Kohen"<abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> :> snip
>> :> > No one with character would continue smoking knowing what we know
>> :> > now about
>> :> > its effects on the smoker's health and on his/her loved ones.
>
> Addiction - Shmaddiction! It is habituation and boredom! I know exactly
> where that cigarette fits in my fingers and where to place it between my
> lips. The perfect activity when I have nothing to do with my hands
> (masturbation is verboten)! Everything we do is a matter of habit. There
> are good ones and bad ones. Smoking is a bad one. I finally stopped four
> months ago, after smoking for 64 years. No withdrawal.
Why can't it be both? Why can't it be 90-10 for one person and 90-10
the other way for another? For me, it was habit and boredom (95-5) vs.
addiction.
--
Shelly
lee
> When I stopped smoking forty years ago, my wife hadn't as yet. She
> would go outside to smoke so that it would not be in the house. She did
> this even in the middle of a New England winter.
Are they colder than the Old England ones then?
Henry Goodman
news:ccefd366-2f17-4e50...@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
_______________________________________
Having once visited Boston in December I would say yes.
--
Henry Goodman
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net