We Don't Need No [Secular] Education

[Yisroel Markov]

Saw this linked by Micha Berger. While people debate whether this
piece is satire or not, Micha says it does reflect a real attitude.
--------------------------------------------

Open Letter to Rabbi Dov Lipman : The inside view of why Chareidim
don't want & don't need secular training for parnossa

Rabbi Dov Lipman,

With all due respect to your American "yeshiva" training (i.e., Ner
Israel), it seems to have left you ignorant and unacquainted with the
Israeli Chareidi world. As an act of chesed I have written this to
help you out before you make another disastrous proclamation regarding
internal Israeli charedi affairs.

It is obvious to any chareidi Jews that aside from the kedusha and
avoidance of pritzus - yeshiva education is in fact superior to
anything that Princeton or Yale has to offer. Harvard business school
graduates are no competition against an avreich who learned 20 years
in the Mir. Everyone know that a yeshiva bachur or avreich does not
need secular education or training. That is because the analytic
skills honed by years of Talmudic dialectics makes him super-smart and
super-adaptable. Furthermore his daily utilization of multiple
languages makes him readily adaptable to all language problems -
including computer programming language. His intense interaction with
people - with his many siblings and chavrusos and community in general
- has made him a genius in reading non-verbal clues and body language.
Thus he quickly picks up whatever language he needs and is capable of
communicating in cogent, closely reasoned prose. In fact his skills
are vastly superior to those who wasted years in college. The fact
that he can't spell properly is no problem today with spell-checkers.

The fact he has no math skills and that he needs to count on his
fingers and toes when he doesn't have access to a calculator is no
problem. Everyone has a calculator today- including kosher phones. The
more advanced stuff like geometry or algebra or even calculus – is no
big deal. He just needs a week or two with a text book to pick it up.
Everyone knows that the Vilna Gaon was a math genius and created
Kramers Rule - without any formal math education. No reason that
anyone else can’t pick up math when needed – why waste precious time
from gemora to learn it?

It is known that the typical chareidi Jew can succeed in any field he
applies himself to.

Full article at
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2013/05/open-letter-to-rabbi-dov-lipman-inside.html?spref=fb
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
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"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

[David Makowsky]

Even were the above entirely correct (And I am not conceding that it is) unless that Charedi Jew is going to set up his own business it is entirely not relevant. Who is going to give them a job without documented credentials (i.e. a Degree or a certificate)?

[Giorgies E Kepipesiom]

>
> Even were the above entirely correct (And I am not conceding that it is) unless that Charedi Jew is going to set up his own business it is entirely not relevant.  Who is going to give them a job without documented credentials (i.e. a Degree or a certificate)?
>

Another charedi Jew, who did set up his own business.

GEK

[Shelly]

I was going to congratulate you for such a humorous tongue-in-cheek
exposition. Then I saw what you wrote about what Micha said. Oy vey!


--
Shelly

[micha]

On Monday, May 13, 2013 12:36:34 PM EDT, Yisroel Markov wrote:
> Saw this linked by Micha Berger. While people debate whether this
> piece is satire or not, Micha says it does reflect a real attitude.

Not exactly what I said. The author is a PhD in Psych who is an "immigrant" to the Har Nof, Jerusalem, chareidi community. Admittedly, like most "Anglos", living on its edge. He is a member of the close circle of R' Moshe Shternbuch, of the beis din of the Edah haChareidis.

R' Daniel Eidensohn is also the compiler of Yad Moshe and Yad Yisrael, indices to the Igeros Moshe and Mishnah Berurah, respectively, as well a Daas Torah (a compendium of quotes from primary sources on key issues in Jewish Thought), and a couple of books about spousal and child abuse. Anyway...

I wrote that he described his post as "I am simply presenting the chareidi view as accurately as I can (i.e., this is not a caricature but how chareidim actually think and express themselves). Depending on your personal views it comes across as defending or mocking. If you cringe when you hear these arguments then you view it as negative. On the other hand if you see this a cogent presentation of arguments that are frequently used by chareidim - then you view this as positive. In sum - this is simply a projective device."

R Daniel Eidensohn has a PhD in psychology, so I assume "projective device" is being used in some technical sense. My own opinion is that from is seat at the edge of the community he is describing, RDEidesohn's depiction should be taken seriously.

However, he later added, "The views expressed in my letter are familiar to anyone who lives in the Israeli chareidi community. The typical feedback I have gotten is that the letter is accurate - though it is not uncommon that there might be some variation for a particular person for a particular issues such as attitude towards medicine. Some chareidim are makpid [punctilious -mb] to go only to the best doctors others are much more comfortable with alternative medicine. Some insist on going only to frum doctors - even if they are not experts while others want only the biggest expert."

G'Shabbos,
-micha