Iran launches missile saying Death to Isreal, but in the news it's a subitem about what about catching a friend faking vacations

[Beach Runner]

This was found under
WHAT TO SAY WHEN YOUR CO-WORKER CALLS IN "SICK" AND THEN POSTS A VACATION PIC...


Bold move. Yesterday, North Korea said it's developed technology that makes it possible to launch nuclear warheads really, really far. Happy Thursday. Reminder: North Korea does not play well with others. Earlier this year, the country said it successfully tested a hydrogen bomb . But NK's media is about as reliable as wifi on a plane, so the US called the country's bluff. Yesterday's news could also be BS. But if it's true, it would be a huge red flag to the US and the international community. Speaking of countries doing things they shouldn't, Iran is also in the doghouse. Earlier this week, the country launched missiles that the US says could violate a UN rule. And then yesterday, the country tested even more missiles, which Iran says are capable of reaching its enemies in Israel. Comforting, since the missiles reportedly have "Israel must be wiped out" written on them in Hebrew. So sweet.

[Beach Runner]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/01/07/music-lessons-spur-emotional-and-behavioral-growth-in-children-new-study-says/?tid=a_inl

[malcolm...@btinternet.com]

On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 11:41:47 PM UTC, Beach Runner wrote:
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/01/07/music-lessons-spur-emotional-and-behavioral-growth-in-children-new-study-says/?tid=a_inl
>
They will of course control for social class. But maybe being forced to learn a musical
instrument is a better predictor of a middle class mummy than the measures used
to define the controls, such as parental income.

The main drawback with music lessons is that children very seldom spontaneously
compose their own pieces, or even learn to play music which hasn't been assigned.
It's a bad way of opening a child's creativity, certainly relative to the resources
invested in it.

[Herman Rubin]

I do not see the relevance of music ability as a predictor of
overall ability; I am am extreme counterexample.




--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

[Shelly]

On 3/16/2016 1:06 PM, Herman Rubin wrote:
> On 2016-03-15, malcolm...@btinternet.com <malcolm...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 11:41:47 PM UTC, Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/01/07/music-lessons-spur-emotional-and-behavioral-growth-in-children-new-study-says/?tid=a_inl
>
>> They will of course control for social class. But maybe being forced
> to learn a musical
>> instrument is a better predictor of a middle class mummy than the measures used
>> to define the controls, such as parental income.
>
>> The main drawback with music lessons is that children very seldom
> spontaneously > compose their own pieces, or even learn to play music
> which hasn't been assigned. > It's a bad way of opening a child's
> creativity, certainly relative to the resources
>> invested in it.
>
> I do not see the relevance of music ability as a predictor of
> overall ability; I am am extreme counterexample.

...and poor Shelly half-note here makes that two extreme counterexamples.

--
Shelly

[malcolm...@btinternet.com]

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 4:59:19 PM UTC, Herman Rubin wrote:
>
> > The main drawback with music lessons is that children very seldom
> > spontaneously compose their own pieces, or even learn to play music
> > which hasn't been assigned. It's a bad way of opening a child's
> > creativity, certainly relative to the resources
> > invested in it.
>
> I do not see the relevance of music ability as a predictor of
> overall ability; I am am extreme counterexample.
>

Ability in one area predicts ability in another.

Some children are more "arts side", good at subjects like English
and history. Others are more "science side", and prefer subjects
like chemistry and physics. But most selective schools are simply
"selectives" - the good historians are almost always also reasonably
good mathematicians. They also tend to be the better football
players.
You do get some exceptions, there's certainly a type who is good
academically but not good at games, and another who is very good
at games but not at all academic. And few people are good at
absolutely everything, there are usually one or two areas of
weakness. But as a predictor, success in one area is very good
for success in another.

[Beach Runner]

I have to admit, I accidently posted the URL about
music and the brain. I thought I was in another window
where it would have been relevant.

Actually, the study of the psychology and neurosciences of how
people learn music, and the effect of serious music study on the
brain has been one of my prime areas of research and expertise
for the last 35 years or so.

There is a lot of great scholarly research in the area. So much of what
people think of as "Talents" are the result of early learning or can be taught.
In fact, the origin of the word "Talent" was a Roman coin, and with enough
talents you could do anything.

There really is not question that serious study of music has been
shown to improve academic performance, abstract thinking and even intelligence.
It has been shown that people who study music develop data structures in their brain, MRI and PET scans show these same data structures light up and are active
during abstract concepts in math, science and physics.

Einstein credited his abilities on learning the violin as a toddler. It was his lifelong love.

Once Horowitz gave a concert at Princeton. Afterwards there was a party for Horowitz and the faculty. Einstein brought his fiddle and cajoled Horowitz into playing a violin concerto with him. After about 15 minutes and very frustrated Horowitz said to Einstein "What's the matter, can't you count."

If we want to create a nation of scientists and engineers we don't want to teach
them rote arithmetic, we want them to study music, solve problems, fail at things and learn to pick themselves back up, and work with other people. none of which is done in most schools today.

[Shelly]

Personally, I think a connection between music and success elsewhere is
because it takes time, dedication, and practice to succeed in music and
those are the qualities that transfer to other fields. It, IMO, has
nothing to do with music specifically, but rather could be in the study
of any other field that required those qualities.

--
Shelly

[Yisroel Markov]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 04:28:49 +0000 (UTC), Beach Runner
<lowh...@gmail.com> said:

>I have to admit, I accidently posted the URL about
>music and the brain. I thought I was in another window
>where it would have been relevant.
>
>Actually, the study of the psychology and neurosciences of how
>people learn music, and the effect of serious music study on the
>brain has been one of my prime areas of research and expertise
>for the last 35 years or so.
>
>There is a lot of great scholarly research in the area. So much of what
>people think of as "Talents" are the result of early learning or can be taught.
>In fact, the origin of the word "Talent" was a Roman coin, and with enough
>talents you could do anything.

The Roman talent weighed over 70 pounds. That's some coin :-)

A propos of that, the biblical kikar was probably the same or about
the same weight as the Roman talent. The gold gathered for the
portable sanctuary in the desert, as reported in my professional sedra
last week (its common name can be roughly translated as "accounting"),
was 29 talents 730 shekels, about a metric ton, worth about $40
million at yesterday's closing price.

>There really is not question that serious study of music has been
>shown to improve academic performance, abstract thinking and even intelligence.
>It has been shown that people who study music develop data structures in their brain, MRI and PET scans show these same data structures light up and are active
>during abstract concepts in math, science and physics.
>
>Einstein credited his abilities on learning the violin as a toddler. It was his lifelong love.
>
>Once Horowitz gave a concert at Princeton. Afterwards there was a party for Horowitz and the faculty. Einstein brought his fiddle and cajoled Horowitz into playing a violin concerto with him. After about 15 minutes and very frustrated Horowitz said to Einstein "What's the matter, can't you count."
>
>If we want to create a nation of scientists and engineers we don't want to teach
>them rote arithmetic, we want them to study music, solve problems, fail at things and learn to pick themselves back up, and work with other people. none of which is done in most schools today.

Nor will it be done while the schools remain effectively a government
monopoly and not accountable to parents.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

[Beach Runner]

Shelly,

With all due respect, the behaviors you write are indeed associated with success in other fields.

However, there is much more to it. There is extensive research that serious
musical study actually changes the brain in a variety of ways. New data structures are created, circuity is created, even new neurons grown. Looking
at a musician and non musician doing abstract math under on Pet Scan shows
significant differences. It really isn't an opinion.

I have a summary of research on the effect of music on the brain on one of my
pages at www.comarow.com

Just click on the brain and music.

[Shelly]

With all due respect, you are missing my point as well. I don't
challenge that serious study of music can sharpen the brain and transfer
to other things. However, so can serious study in many other fields
transfer to yet other fields. It is the act of dedication to study, and
not the specific topic, that is the reason for this. I would say that
serious study of doing Sudoku puzzles for example can, and probably
does, have the same beneficial effect.

The point here is that this does not lead to a conclusion that music
should be emphasized as a field of study so as to sharpen the brain for
other areas. It is but ONE way, but clearly not the only way. My brain,
for example, was sharpened not by study of music, but early on composing
long strings of multiplication of fractions which I then reduced to
lowest form. Is that the way for everyone? Not at all.

So, while music study can be valuable as far as having side benefits, it
is not THE path for all. Reading books and writing analyses of the
characters can be another. Composing poems or short stories can be
another. Intricate woodworking can be another. There are so many methods
that it is impossible to list them all. Music is but one, valuable for
some(you), but worthless for others(me).

--
Shelly

[DoD]

"Shelly" <shel...@thevillages.net> wrote in message
news:ncet7t$dt0$1...@dont-email.me...

Actually I have an issue of PopSci that debunks brain myths.... You are
right... In the FULL
issue they said that music doesn't do anymore for you than puzzles etc...
they said the
best way to keep the brain sharp (which is in the online preview)

1.) Get the Blood Flowing
2.) Eat Your Greens
3.) Talk to People

http://www.popsci.com/10-brain-myths-busted

[Herman Rubin]

On 2016-03-17, Beach Runner <lowh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 4:56:22 AM UTC-7, shel...@thevillages.net wrote:
>> On 3/17/2016 12:28 AM, Beach Runner wrote:

...................

> With all due respect, the behaviors you write are indeed associated
with success in other fields.

> However, there is much more to it. There is extensive research that
serious > musical study actually changes the brain in a variety of ways.
New data structures are created, circuity is created, even new neurons
grown. Looking > at a musician and non musician doing abstract math under
on Pet Scan shows > significant differences. It really isn't an opinion.

> I have a summary of research on the effect of music on the brain on one of my
> pages at www.comarow.com

> Just click on the brain and music.

With due respect, I do not see that much of an effect. I am not bragging,
but my ability at abstract math is acknowledged. My son was doing abstract
math before he was six, and while he did learn to play the violing without
screeching, and he does sing well, he is in no way a musician. If they
graded on the ability to keep on key singing, I would have flunked.

I have no problem understanding the physics of music, and I can compare
pitch well, but that is as far as I go. My daughter went further in music,
and she can understand abstract mathematics reasonably well, but she is
not what mathematicians would consider to be an abstract mathematician.
So it is not surprising that I do not think that there is that much of
an effect, at least from music to mathematics.

[Beach Runner]

I have no doubt you have some natural abilities with abstract concepts in
math and science. Musical training would probably strengthen them, not simply
scratching on a violin. The science is that it does create data structures in
the brain and has other effects on the brain.


I do doubt you looked at the research. Places like MIT are filled with great musicians, it's no coincidence.

[Shelly]

On 3/18/2016 6:19 PM, Beach Runner wrote:

> I have no doubt you have some natural abilities with abstract concepts in
> math and science. Musical training would probably strengthen them, not simply
> scratching on a violin. The science is that it does create data structures in
> the brain and has other effects on the brain.
>
>
> I do doubt you looked at the research. Places like MIT are filled with great musicians, it's no coincidence.

I went to an elite school. At that time it was composed of the the
third best engineering school in the country, one of the top
architectural schools in the country, and an extremely highly rated art
school. The name was "The Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science
and Art".

A number of the students I knew played instruments. Most did not. The
ones that played instruments were NOT at the top of the class. They
ranged all over the ballpark. I was also in the theater club, and the
only engineering student there. What I saw in the others was about zero
interest in math and science.

What you are doing is confusing coincidence with cause and effect.
Essentially it is equivalent to saying that thunder produces lightning
because after every thunderclap there is a lightning bolt. There are
many pathways to developing abstract thought, and music study is but one
of them -- but it is not the subject that produces that change. It is
the dedication, effort, and mental stimulation of the hard work.

--
Shelly

[Beach Runner]

Shelly,

There are MRI and Pet Scan studies that show the data structures created
with musical study, one's that don't normally exist, light up during
abstract thinking. It's very clear science.

Cooper Union is a great school. I understand everyone gets a scholarship
so they only take the very best? When I worked at Grumman a number of the
most brilliant engineers had studied at Cooper Union.

One older man was brilliant, he was Irish and his family didn't want him
going there, wanted him to operate elevators or be a pipe fitter, but the
rebel in him went to Cooper Union.

He ended up being the primary designed of the E2, which is the "flying
Air Traffic Controller Plane". They basically build a plane around a militarized IBM 360 at the time. It's been in service a long time, and
I wonder what computer technology is used now.



Bob

[Shelly]

I am getting tired of repeatedly telling you that you miss the point. I
am not challenging what you said in the preceding paragraph. What I am
saying is that it is but ONE of MANY ways to produce the same result. It
is like you saying that studies have shown that running three miles
every day produces stronger hearts and lungs. Sure, but going to the gym
and working out, or swimming a hundred laps every day will produce the
same result. IOW, your studies are not a good argument for forcing a
music study program on public school students. Your argument is
equivalent to saying that all students should be forced to run three
miles a day.

Do you finally understand what I (and Herman) have been saying?

> Cooper Union is a great school. I understand everyone gets a scholarship
> so they only take the very best? When I worked at Grumman a number of the
> most brilliant engineers had studied at Cooper Union.

I went there from 1958 to 1962. It was tuition free and there were fees
amounting to less than $100 a year. In my year 1300 applied to the
engineering school and 400 were invited to take their special tests
(took a whole morning and I had to miss my brother's bar mitzvah). 97
were admitted with 22 going into EE and 25 into each of ME, CE and
ChemE. Graduation rate was about 90% of the entering class in four years
with a few more percent taking five years. They also awarded 10
scholarships of $350 a year which were renewable each year if you
maintained a 3.0 average. I made sure I did since that was my dating
money. (To get the current dollar equivalent multiply by about 6 or 7.)

--
Shelly

[mm]

On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 04:37:11 +0000 (UTC), Beach Runner
<lowh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 5:22:46 AM UTC-7, shel...@thevillages.net wrote:
>> On 3/18/2016 6:19 PM, Beach Runner wrote:
>>
>> > I have no doubt you have some natural abilities with abstract concepts in
>> > math and science. Musical training would probably strengthen them, not simply
>> > scratching on a violin. The science is that it does create data structures in
>> > the brain and has other effects on the brain.
>> >
>> >
>> > I do doubt you looked at the research. Places like MIT are filled with great musicians, it's no coincidence.
>>
>> I went to an elite school. At that time it was composed of the the
>> third best engineering school in the country, one of the top
>> architectural schools in the country, and an extremely highly rated art
>> school. The name was "The Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science
>> and Art".
>>
>> A number of the students I knew played instruments. Most did not. The
>> ones that played instruments were NOT at the top of the class. They
>> ranged all over the ballpark. I was also in the theater club, and the
>> only engineering student there. What I saw in the others was about zero
>> interest in math and science.
>>
>> What you are doing is confusing coincidence with cause and effect.

============

>> Essentially it is equivalent to saying that thunder produces lightning
>> because after every thunderclap there is a lightning bolt. There are

And that is just a coincidence? It seems to happen every time!

[Shelly]

Here is an assignment for you, Bob. Please research if there are studies
of other fields and that they have come up negative in producing the
"abstract thinking ability" that you say this music study research
produces. If there are no such studies then you have a one-of situation
and all it is is an interesting observation, but not a call to action.
However, if you can show that there are studies of people in the
mathematics, engineering, science, etc. fields that put in as much time
as those studying music did, and they didn't produce anything, then you
have something to talk about.

Until then, I will stand by my contention that it is the dedication, the
work ethic, the intensity and all things like that which are
transferable among fields and not the specific field of study, eg music,
that is/are the key(s).

IOW, any proper scientific study needs the proper controls. That is why
in drug tests they also have people getting placebos. The proper
controls here would be people putting in that kind of dedication into
areas other than music. Without that, those studies you point to are,
well, interesting, but that is it.

--
Shelly