#Zionists: Ethiopian Christian Converts Yes! Native Palestinians No!
David Goldman
"G-d-fearing" Zionist wacko like Eli Yishai, may his name be
obliterated, as much as Ethiopians from refugee camps.
Israel To Allow Entry of 17,000 Ethiopian Refugees
Ross Dunn
Jerusalem
16 Feb 2003, 18:09 UTC
Listen to Ross Dunn's report (RealAudio)
Dunn report - Download 143k (RealAudio)
Israel's cabinet decided Sunday to allow about 17,000 Ethiopians
waiting in refugee camps to move to the Jewish state.
The cabinet agreed to allow in up to 95 percent of the 20,000
Ethiopians, who have applied for immigration, claiming they are Jews.
Known as the Falash Mura, they had converted to Christianity but have
maintained some Jewish traditions.
Many had moved from outlying areas of Ethiopia in anticipation of
being accepted for immigration to Israel and had rented mud huts near
two compounds in Addis Ababa, the capital, and the northern city of
Gondar.
Some had already succeeded in immigrating after proving they had
either a Jewish grandparent or to be reunited with other family
members who had moved to Israel.
Interior Minister Eli Yishai, a member of the Jewish ultra-orthodox
Shas Party, was appointed to head a ministerial committee to oversee
the process.
He told the cabinet that the decision should be implemented
immediately because the Ethiopians waiting in camps were living in
what he called difficult and even dangerous conditions.
About 80,000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel. Many of them were brought
over in massive Israeli airlifts during times of crisis in 1984 and
1991.
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Sammy
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> Of course PALESTINIAN REFUGEES from refugee camps don't interest a
> "G-d-fearing" Zionist wacko like Eli Yishai, may his name be
> obliterated, as much as Ethiopians from refugee camps.
You've gone way over the line here. Whatever his faults may be, Mr. Yishai
does not deserve this vicious attack and it constitutes a blatant violation
of the laws of ahavas Yisroel, onaas devorim, motsei sheim ra, etc., etc.
--
Always Check 'X-Original Date:' in Full-Headers to See When Post was
Actually Submitted (vs. When It was _Approved_.)
David Goldman
the resha'im. Yishai is a kofer and apikorus, and so is Ravitz, and
their whole gang of hypocritical collaborator two-faced opportunistic
self-serving money-grabbing narcissistic snob idolator-loving
desecrators of the Torah that make up UTJ and Shas.
If you want some information from the Chafetz Chaim on these issues,
and others, check as follows.
>Babylonian Talmud Tractate Kidushin, Page 81, side a:
> Megila Page 25 side b:
> Shabbat Page 58 side a:
>Anthology of Letters of Rabbi Avraham Karelitz, "Chazon Ish" letter
>133.
> Anthology of Letters of Rabbi Meir Simcha
>Hakohen (called Chafetz Chaim) Letter 46
>The Classical Book on the Laws of Gossip and Slander which he called
>CHAFETZ CHAIM Heading 4
>Abridged Code of Jewish Law Section 31 clause 3 Section 201 clause 4
>Shulchan Aruch (Complete Code of Jewish Law, division called Choshen
>Mishpat Section 34, claues 17
David Goldman
the writings of Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum, of blessed memory in regards to
the Agudah movement, over three decades ago.
All sections of the Agudah go in one direction: To Zionism
And even within the party called Agudah there are a number of known
groups, but they all lead to the direction of Zionism, from whence is
the well of evil and bitter waters of sectarianism and heresy...
Zionism with the Approval of the "Council of Torah Sages"
And now that the Agudah has joined with the idolators, the idolators
are even more arrogant since they see that everyone is with them. This
is because the Agudah operates with the approval of the 'Council of
Torah Sages' and the rabbis and rebbes and heads of yeshivas make all
their actions kosher.
Walking arm in arm
Anyone with a brain in his head can see that in recent years the
Agudah has joined the Zionists arm in arm, but just with different
faces.....
All their words (of the Agudah) are empty air
It is impossible to go into all their empty claims, lies, fantasies
and falsifications on paper, since there is no limit to their empty
words and lies and phoney fantasies. But anyone concerned with the
word of G-d sees that all their words are vanity, and totally lacking
in content.
They serve the Zionist idolatry with all their hearts
Satan has succeeded in that even some who are called religious have
devoted themselves to serving the Zionists with all their hearts, and
help them to fulfill their aspirations to mislead and deceive. They
totally turn themselves over to idolatry.
They bring Zionism into Synagogues
The religious Zionists bring the rule of the Zionists into the
synagogues, where they recite Hallel and Shehechayanu and make fund
raising appeals for all the organizations. They know themselves that
the money they are collecting, even on the Eve of Yom Kippur goes into
places of heresy and destruction of our religion.
Anyone helping the Zionists to bring immigrants to the Holy Land, woe
to them and their souls
And all the moreso when they come to Eretz Yisrael under the Zionists
and fall into their trap, and then pull out of them any faith and
Torah. Woe to them and their souls those aiding this and flattering
the Zionists. Their sin is great, and rises to heaven.
The claims of the Agudah that they fight Zionism is ridiculous
And how can they say that they fight the Zionists and that their
educational system is geared to implant pure faith to fight heresy?
Who would be foolish enough to believe that the heretics would give
money and weapons to enable others to fight against them? Their whole
purpose is to WEAKEN the struggle against them and to implant heresy
into the educational system.
Joining the Agudah is dangerous physically and spiritually
For all those religious people who gives the Zionists support, and
have distorted the teachings of the Torah, they shall be held
responsible in the next world. One has to run away from them and from
joining them as far as is possible. Joining them is a great physical
and spiritual danger.
How can anyone join the Agudah who are one with the Zionists?
With regard to your question about joining the Agudah, I am surprised
at the question, since it is known that they are one with the Zionists
who have destroyed the world and dragged the Jewish people into
heresy.
Whoever brings the people to join the heretics, G-d forbid to join him
or to listen to his instructions
Whoever praises the heretics and brings the masses over to the views
of the heretics, G-d forbid to join him or to listen to his
instructions.
R.J. Goldman
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:h5h05vse48dhsuvha...@4ax.com...
anonymous
The Islamists may stop their terrorism, then maybe they can start talking.
But, how can this trust ever be reestablished? They have forsaken their
treaty completely. They are proven liars.
David Goldman
(whatever that term means)???
I can just see it now: The Zionist Hatikvah being sung by Ethiopian
Christians, Filipino Christians, Ukrainian Christians, Chinese
Buddhists, etc.
A great reason for Jews to sacrifice their lives in the IDF.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:19:51 GMT, anonymous <anon...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
R.J. Goldman
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:lt025v8kbmljbv3bh...@4ax.com...
dnr247
murder the ethiopion christians and make the remaining ones live in hell and
be treated as second class citizens.
"anonymous" <anon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E50C5F1...@hotmail.com...
R.J. Goldman
"dnr247" <rayyad247@...a....hotmail.com> wrote in message
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BTov
> Do Ethiopian Christians help make your "Jewish" State more "Jewish"
> (whatever that term means)???
> I can just see it now: The Zionist Hatikvah being sung by Ethiopian
> Christians, Filipino Christians, Ukrainian Christians, Chinese
> Buddhists, etc.
> A great reason for Jews to sacrifice their lives in the IDF.
david goldman advocates the most PATHETIC and VILE gang of the
ultraorthodox which's neturei karta.
if they'd say `our senile rebbe told us this and that a coupla
centuries ago we didn't understand a word and forgot it but what the
hell we wouldn't understand it anyway' and go on living their
miserable lives off in mea shearim or in another hole i wouldn't mind
it.
nah
this tiny sect has gone very public:
they don't agree with the existense of israel because of their
interpretation of the book and instead of leaving it to themselves
they became missionaries promoting their interpretation through
uniting with any and every scumbag which happens to hate israel, on
the basis of their common hatred, forget that this scumbag hates jews
too with israel or without it, thus putting the very jewish lives in
danger
their reps don't miss one israel bashing contest
they attend witch hunts against jews where possible like willing
executioners
they united with yasir arafat like two buddies in hate for the common
goal--he'd like to see israel gone so would they
and they're used like useful idiots by jewhating israel hating mob and
are hated themselves because they're jews
when a car bomb exploded in a haredi block yassir called neturei rebe
hirsh to ask him if he was OK..
pathetic brothers in terrorism..
Michael W Cook
>
>> Of course PALESTINIAN REFUGEES from refugee camps don't interest a
>> "G-d-fearing" Zionist wacko like Eli Yishai, may his name be
>> obliterated, as much as Ethiopians from refugee camps.
>>
BIG snip
>> Email this article to a friend.
Why, RJ Goldman, haven't you got any ?
David Goldman wrote on 17/2/03 3:47 pm:
> Do Ethiopian Christians help make your "Jewish" State more "Jewish"
> (whatever that term means)???
> I can just see it now: The Zionist Hatikvah being sung by Ethiopian
> Christians, Filipino Christians, Ukrainian Christians, Chinese
> Buddhists, etc.
> A great reason for Jews to sacrifice their lives in the IDF.
Does a South American Indian Jewish convert, shipped over to a spanking new
settlement in the Occupied Territories, to an area and culture that is
totally alien to him, make your "Jewish" state more "Jewish" ?
Or does it make it a sham and crime, not only to the people whose land he
will occupy, but to the poor man himself and his family, who is likely
wondering what the hell he has done to deserve the hell in which he's been
placed ?
Zionism is Evil.
Susan Cohen
"dnr247" <rayyad247@...a....hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iHa4a.3658$Ha1....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
More like thru your cracked brain
The jews will
> murder the ethiopion christians
You bigots just tell bigger & bigger lies all the time!
Susan
--
The bunk stops here
Adam Helberg
Israel airlifted thousands of Ethiopian Jews and Arabia should do the same
with its refugees.
Adam
Giora Drachsler
> (whatever that term means)???
> I can just see it now: The Zionist Hatikvah being sung by Ethiopian
> Christians, Filipino Christians, Ukrainian Christians, Chinese
> Buddhists, etc.
> A great reason for Jews to sacrifice their lives in the IDF.
Now, how would you know with your stacked brain? Nobody is
trying to increase any Jewish and no one is forcing anyone
to live here and yet, look how many prefer to live here. Now,
you, of course, curse us here, but wait, one day the American
fascists will bite your bumps and you'll run to Israel for shelter -
just wait and see. Today, you can still be a hero, but tomorrow?
Today, you still pompously curse Israel, but the time is not far
away when you'll swallow your pride and come here. And then,
another question will arise: will your cult you practice is Jewish
enough or you'll need to convert.
--
Giora Drachsler
Jerusalem, Israel
R.J. Goldman
take a drill and release that nasty pressure you have back there,
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA77158F.1A3DD%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
David Goldman
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 18/2/03 10:37 am:
> the evil comes from ignorance and it shows in your posts.
> take a drill and release that nasty pressure you have back there,
Zero debating skills again from RJ Goldman, the truth obviously hurts this
rabid Zionist. Not even he can defend the conversion of South American
Indians and then shipping them off to the Promised land.
Rot in hell, RJ, and take your murdering thieving Zionist filth with you.
R.J. Goldman
and hate for the likes of you and your Gay lover David Goldman..
debate ROFLOL. nothing to debate here lies are lies,
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA780DFC.1A4DC%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 18/2/03 4:24 pm:
> Debate? I'll only debate something that has some fiber to it and not drivel
> and hate for the likes of you and your Gay lover David Goldman..
> debate ROFLOL. nothing to debate here lies are lies,
>
How sad, the gay slur tactic, this is what someone as pathetic as you is
reduced to is it ?
I'm willing to debate anything with anyone, however, the same can not be
said from the likes of Zionists like you. You are all blinded by your
religion and faith, and see no logic to facts and the truth.
Indeed, you show exactly what debating skills you have by the above slur.
David Goldman obviously gets right under your skin, and it makes me cry with
laughter sometimes to see your pathetic attempts to try and put him down.
Inevitably he has you running round in circles, and you then reduce yourself
to slurs like the above as your only response.
I told someone off on anther group for making a rather loaded anti-Semite
statement of signalling people out as 'Good' Jews and 'Bad' Jews. I stand by
that because of the context in which it was used.
But you will be pleased to know I will make an exception in these
circumstances. David Goldman is a 'Good' Jew, whereas you, Mr R.J. Goldman,
are not only a 'Bad' Jew, you and your Zionist cohorts are EVIL.
THE HAPPY SMOKER
"R.J. Goldman" <rgol...@bellsouth.net> schreef in bericht
news:AbY3a.25910$sy2....@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
R.J. Goldman
"THE HAPPY SMOKER" <SM...@AOL.COM> wrote in message
news:b2trip$5uk$1...@reader11.wxs.nl...
R.J. Goldman
the same line as the earth is FLAT hence no need for debate,
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA781C44.1A4E4%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 18/2/03 8:57 pm:
> sure your willing to debate anything. but you see what you stand for is on
> the same line as the earth is FLAT hence no need for debate,
If you were intelligent and open to debate, you would attempt to at least
answer properly. Instead you resort to the little two line snips, which
contain nothing of content and show you up for exactly what you are.
BTov
> More diversion and avoidance, Dracula??
david goldman advocates the most PATHETIC and VILE gang of the
Giora Drachsler
Michael, you are a gem. I communicate with david goldman for several
years and, for you and others, I'll state it loud and clear: he is a man of
culture, a polyglot with a vast knowledge and, most important, he works,
earning his living - a rare combination for a ultra-Orthodox.
When we bypass the controversial issues, we can even communicate,
however, lately, those issues, of very dissonant tones, are the only one
he touches, to my dismay, with a inhuman ferocity, that made me call
him behema. His lines are systematic cursing of the State of Israel, of
which I am proud to be part of it, whishes of its destruction and an
active support of the worst enemies of Israel, and they are quite a few.
The worst part is that he lost the listening ability and is constantly
grinding the same note, regardless of the subject, making any
intelligent discussion impossible - on this he's not alone, there are
a few more that first write then think and, usually don't comprehend
beyond the written words.
Have a nice day,
Binyamin Dissen
:>David Goldman <da...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<u7n45vcdrm74qo0gn...@4ax.com>...
:>> More diversion and avoidance, Dracula??
:>david goldman advocates the most PATHETIC and VILE gang of the
:>ultraorthodox which's neturei karta.
I fail to see how anyone could call a group that openly and publicly profanes
the Holy Shabbos as "ultraorthodox".
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
R.J. Goldman
"Giora Drachsler" <gi...@outmail.cc.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:b2v9tr$ab6$1...@news.iucc.ac.il...
R.J. Goldman
throw out a bone!!
but don't throw out known garbage that is just a waste of bandwidth, (RE
anything posted by the self hating fake Jew D. Goldman.)
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA786C31.1A625%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Michael W Cook
gi...@outmail.cc.huji.ac.il wrote on 19/2/03 6:50 am:
Thank you Giora, I'm not so sure about being a 'gem', but I try to live a
decent and honest life.
> I communicate with david goldman for several
> years and, for you and others, I'll state it loud and clear: he is a man of
> culture, a polyglot with a vast knowledge and, most important, he works,
> earning his living - a rare combination for a ultra-Orthodox.
Good for you on your openness and willingness to communicate.
> When we bypass the controversial issues, we can even communicate,
> however, lately, those issues, of very dissonant tones, are the only one
> he touches, to my dismay, with a inhuman ferocity, that made me call
> him behema. His lines are systematic cursing of the State of Israel, of
> which I am proud to be part of it, whishes of its destruction and an
> active support of the worst enemies of Israel, and they are quite a few.
This is how many people feel nowadays, the actions and systematic murderous
policies of Israel make many think in exactly the same manner. You could
also probably include me in this as well, as I despise the way the Zionists
behave.
> The worst part is that he lost the listening ability and is constantly
> grinding the same note, regardless of the subject, making any
> intelligent discussion impossible - on this he's not alone, there are
> a few more that first write then think and, usually don't comprehend
> beyond the written words.
Sounds to me like RJ Goldman, but thanks for taking the time to write and
tell me, I shall make my own mind up.
> Have a nice day,
And you too.
Regards
Michael
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 19/2/03 9:46 am:
> Now lets see how he reacts to that.;-=)
Someone push your button again did they Goldman ?
With luck your batteries will run out soon.
R.J. Goldman
who put his life on the line for more then ten years to protect that same
country a bad Jew?
one who worships a Rabbi that in history has sided with the total
destruction of the NON Religious is a good Jew?
My G-d man you have issues,
So I'm a Zionist? so what.! I worked for 10 years in the Army protecting
Jew and Arab alike.
Jew Christian Moslem Druze. it has no meaning to me when it came to
protecting the people. defending all against terrorism. but getting spit
on by the likes of David Goldman and the rest of his little demented cult.
being called a Nazi and a fake Jew by these leaches on the country, that
hurt more then any wound I received in battle,
People like you who are only waking up to terrorism people like you with
blinders on will never understand one fucking thing about Israel except
what you get from the ilk of the lying thieving Satmars and the Terrorist
that they bank roll.
YES!! they actually Bank for the PLO HAMAS and other terrorist groups that
have been branded as such worldwide.
you unknowing twit that you are have earned this lesson, but then I'm just a
top poster who can't give a shit about netiquette,,,, screw it and the likes
of you .
Israel will live while your bones bleach in the sun.
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA791D9A.1A695%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
R.J. Goldman
looks like your out of luck!
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA791DD5.1A696%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 19/2/03 12:40 pm:
> So you consider a man who............
Snip
You come at me with abuse on your very first post, and you then expect me to
take you seriously and be civil.
I told you before, if people are civil to me, then I will respond
accordingly. But when an arsehole like you comes at me with unprovoked abuse
and insults, then for every stick you hit me with, I will reply with a
sledgehammer.
Clear ?
Now fuck off.
R.J. Goldman
good show . poor effort. TWIT!!
I've seen your type before. hit them where it counts and then they refuse to
answer the charges,
You little nazi troll.
Go back to your hole.
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA793D42.1A6F7%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 19/2/03 2:27 pm:
> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now you can't address a thing,
Right then, when were you in the Israeli Army ?
Ten years you say, doing what ?
And now you live in America, correct ?
Naine
> Of course PALESTINIAN REFUGEES from refugee camps don't interest a
> "G-d-fearing" Zionist wacko like Eli Yishai, may his name be
> obliterated, as much as Ethiopians from refugee camps.
If the Zionist state is so vile and sinful, why do the Neturei Karta
insist on living there?
There is 17,000 empty mud huts in Ethiopia - what are you waiting for?
> Email this article to a friend.
> Printer Friendly Version
David Goldman
their families lived there as religious Jews had always lived there
long before there was a Zionist Reich, living in tranquility with
their Arab neighbors, unlike the Zionist heretics who sought to
ethnically cleanse the land to make room for their Zionist Reich.
R.J. Goldman
"Naine" <na...@asm.net> wrote in message
news:bcd3bbb7.0302...@posting.google.com...
R.J. Goldman
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
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R.J. Goldman
EOD.
Anti terror.
Military govt. Gaza City.
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA7971FD.1A725%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
R.J. Goldman
But I go back often to do my reserves,
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA7971FD.1A725%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Michael W Cook
na...@asm.net wrote on 19/2/03 7:01 pm:
> David Goldman <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:<0pa05v8ei3b7oui9u...@4ax.com>...
>> Of course PALESTINIAN REFUGEES from refugee camps don't interest a
>> "G-d-fearing" Zionist wacko like Eli Yishai, may his name be
>> obliterated, as much as Ethiopians from refugee camps.
>
> If the Zionist state is so vile and sinful, why do the Neturei Karta
> insist on living there?
>
> There is 17,000 empty mud huts in Ethiopia - what are you waiting for?
And there are several hundred thousand peasant farms in Eastern Europe your
fathers and grandfathers left, waiting for your to return - because that's
all your are now, immigrants, on land that does not belong to you.
Michael W Cook
mwc...@crusader-productions.com wrote on 19/2/03 5:39 pm:
Goldman's gone all quiet now he's been asked for some facts.
Lets take a few guesses then.
He was born in the USA.
He then left to spend some time in the 'Fatherland' where he joined the
Israeli Army and he served for ?
10 years according to him.
After serving for the Israeli Army he returned back to the SE of the USA,
where he now lives.
Does he hold an Israeli passport or an American Passport ?
That's the all important question.
David Goldman
Passport. Neither are needed in any southern US state. Thank G-d for
that too.
David Goldman
immigration certificates to be issued to anti-Zionists. They never
even allowed them to be issued to Agudists.
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 19/2/03 8:46 pm:
> Oh yes living in the states since 89 when I was wounded and needed a break,
> But I go back often to do my reserves,
>
Passport - Israeli or American ?
BTov
> On 18 Feb 2003 16:29:07 -0800 dkas...@hotmail.com (BTov) wrote:
> :>David Goldman <da...@erols.com> wrote in message news:
> :>> More diversion and avoidance, Dracula??
> :>david goldman advocates the most PATHETIC and VILE gang of the
> :>ultraorthodox which's neturei karta.
> I fail to see how anyone could call a group that openly and publicly profanes
> the Holy Shabbos as "ultraorthodox".
well..
they think of themselves as ultras.
about this pathetic and vile bile david goldman..
i think he's jess yet another promuslimo trollypop with no
`jewishness' to prophane..
corrections welcome
David Goldman
directed at the wacko RJ Goldman, and not David Goldman.
R.J. Goldman
My family left Spain in 1492 and settled in Jerusalem.
and some in Turkey while others in Lebanon.
and then the other side of my family left Europe in the 1800's and came to
America. while others were in Morocco till they were evicted in the 50's
so do a little more research on Jews and you will also find that there are
Israelis from India, Africa, China and Japan. you telling me they are all
from Europe?
Get a life ass clown.
stop repeating the lies of David Goldman. He's not even a Jew. he's a whore
that dresses funny.
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA79A44F.1A75A%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
R.J. Goldman
\stayed with tourist visas, etc,
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
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R.J. Goldman
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
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R.J. Goldman
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
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R.J. Goldman
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
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R.J. Goldman
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
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alexz
> Neturei Karta do not INSIST on living there. They live there because
> their families lived there as religious Jews had always lived there
> long before there was a Zionist Reich, living in tranquility with
> their Arab neighbors, unlike the Zionist heretics who sought to
> ethnically cleanse the land to make room for their Zionist Reich.
Sure you did. Meanwhile back in reality here is what muslims think
of
long nosed jews like you. I like how he "Sums Up" Neturei Karta.
http://carolinanavy.com/fleet2/f2/zreligion/Islamhall/cas/2839.html
Posted by Fouad on August 17, 19102 at 02:01:41:
Asalam Aleikoum Muslimeen,
Notice that "Rabbi Weissfish" and other Neturei Karta Rabbis continue
to flood this page with there propoganda. Rabbi you can NOT livein
peace with Muslims and we dont need your help. Rabbi Hirsh from
Neturei Karta is busy trying to show us how great he is by meeting
secular Arab leaders. Well Neturei Karta boys we are Muslims, and
understand the Jew from our Quran and Sunneh sahih. Rabbi Hirsh turned
in a Muslim brother to the Jew organazation Yad L'achim this is a FACT
and Yad L'Achim has to date filed 3 complaints with the Jewish Enemy
Entity that this brother "beats his wife and kids" "teaches his kids
to be suicide bombers" etc. but this is not new for Neturei Karata's
brothers in judaism Yad L'achim. They are responsiabe by there own
claim of breking many families of converted Muslims that were once
Jews. Here is Rabbi Lifshi-tz own quote:
Rabbi Lifsh-itz observed that in his work with Yad L`Achim, an
anti-missionary organization, he has been involved with rescuing
hundreds of Jewish women who had married Arab men and were residing in
Arab villages.
For this reason we urge ALL MUSLIMS around the world and at evrey
"palestine" rally, to hold ALL Orthodox Jews accountable for neturei
Karta's action and Yad L'Acims. Let them understand that we KNOW how
racist ther filthy Talmud is and what it teaches about us. MAKE THEM
PAY!!! and understand that Muslim blood is NOT cheap and while they
sit at there Shabbos tables make them shiver in fear, for paybacks
WILL BE forth coming. Thats a promise from a Muslim a SWEAR.
To Sum Up: Neturei Karta Is Our Eternal Enemy of Islam.
Muslims Must Hold Them Accountable For There Trying To Break A Muslim
Family In Palestine.
The Talmud IS filthy and racist.
here is some more info on Neturei Karta & Other filthy Rabbinical
Jews. http://www.answeringjews.com
Please email me with any questions Yyou may have, like locations of
Satmar Synagogs, Kolels, where you can report the exact locations that
the Orthodox Jews sell Alcohal to minors in there Mikvas and shop for
toys and clothing with food stamps etc etc.
Fouad Yassin
David Goldman
what on such websites? The Mossad has all kinds of ways of stirring up
trouble. It doesn't bother me in the least. Anyway, you can tell that
the poster isn't very acquainted with various distinctions among
Jewish groups, which is why it is important to get the word out.
No sense in generalizing, is there??
Giora Drachsler
>
> >
> > Michael, you are a gem.
>
> Thank you Giora, I'm not so sure about being a 'gem', but I try to live a
> decent and honest life.
I ment it not in it's positive sense.
> > I communicate with david goldman for several
> > years and, for you and others, I'll state it loud and clear: he is a man
of
> > culture, a polyglot with a vast knowledge and, most important, he works,
> > earning his living - a rare combination for a ultra-Orthodox.
>
> Good for you on your openness and willingness to communicate.
It's quite frustrating to be open alone.
>
> > When we bypass the controversial issues, we can even communicate,
> > however, lately, those issues, of very dissonant tones, are the only one
> > he touches, to my dismay, with a inhuman ferocity, that made me call
> > him behema. His lines are systematic cursing of the State of Israel, of
> > which I am proud to be part of it, whishes of its destruction and an
> > active support of the worst enemies of Israel, and they are quite a few.
>
> This is how many people feel nowadays, the actions and systematic
murderous
> policies of Israel make many think in exactly the same manner. You could
> also probably include me in this as well, as I despise the way the
Zionists
> behave.
I am much more carefull when using extreme words. Calling Israel's
policies and actions "murderous" means that you not only acused
Israel of murder, but proved and sentenced as well. From your low
moral stature, I believe that you can, at best, accuse Israel, othewise
you'll prove complete ignorance on what Israel does, it's legal system
and practices. Unless you have some solid proofs that Israel commits
murder, you better avoid those words. I wonder what's your oppinion
on a homicide bomber that kills intentionally civilian, women and
children preffered.
Now, declaratively despising someone or something proves the same
thing - it's comming in lieu of something more concrete. For two
millenia, the Christians despised the Jews for what they did to Jesus,
in spite that this was a blatant lie, acknowledged only recently by the
Pope. So, in this field too, be more careful before sentencing one.
You certainly can accuse, but listen to the other side - even if you'll
go midway, it's better than taking one side only.
> > The worst part is that he lost the listening ability and is constantly
> > grinding the same note, regardless of the subject, making any
> > intelligent discussion impossible - on this he's not alone, there are
> > a few more that first write then think and, usually don't comprehend
> > beyond the written words.
>
> Sounds to me like RJ Goldman, but thanks for taking the time to write and
> tell me, I shall make my own mind up.
I didn't compared you to anyone and respect everybody's uniqness. Now
if I made you think, even for a moment, it's the best recompense for the
time I spent writing you.
think again,
--
Giora Drachsler
Jerusalem, Israel
Giora Drachsler
>
> :>David Goldman <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
>
> :>> More diversion and avoidance, Dracula??
>
> :>david goldman advocates the most PATHETIC and VILE gang of the
> :>ultraorthodox which's neturei karta.
>
> I fail to see how anyone could call a group that openly and publicly
profanes
> the Holy Shabbos as "ultraorthodox".
> Binyamin Dissen
It's in the human nature to group and label people, the better ones
debate with the individual.
R.J. Goldman
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:7tc85v0hhqsqg20pu...@4ax.com...
R.J. Goldman
"Giora Drachsler" <gi...@outmail.cc.huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:b31ogr$14a$1...@news.iucc.ac.il...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 19/2/03 11:35 pm:
Still playing the abusive card, but perhaps I shouldn't expect any different
from you I suppose.
Now, what was you country of birth, Israel or USA ?
Which passport were you originally issued with, US or Israeli ?
It makes quite a bit of difference.
Michael W Cook
gi...@outmail.cc.huji.ac.il wrote on 19/2/03 12:24 pm:
> "Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
> news:BA791D9A.1A695%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
>>
>>>
>>> Michael, you are a gem.
>>
>> Thank you Giora, I'm not so sure about being a 'gem', but I try to live a
>> decent and honest life.
>
> I ment it not in it's positive sense.
Put it down to cultural differences then.
>>> I communicate with david goldman for several
>>> years and, for you and others, I'll state it loud and clear: he is a man
> of
>>> culture, a polyglot with a vast knowledge and, most important, he works,
>>> earning his living - a rare combination for a ultra-Orthodox.
>>
>> Good for you on your openness and willingness to communicate.
>
> It's quite frustrating to be open alone.
I'm sure it is, surrounded by those who do nothing but throw abuse at the
slightest criticism of Israel. I suppose at least you don't immediately
throw the anti-Semite tag into the ring and accuse me of being a
'Jew-Hater'.
>>> When we bypass the controversial issues, we can even communicate,
>>> however, lately, those issues, of very dissonant tones, are the only one
>>> he touches, to my dismay, with a inhuman ferocity, that made me call
>>> him behema. His lines are systematic cursing of the State of Israel, of
>>> which I am proud to be part of it, whishes of its destruction and an
>>> active support of the worst enemies of Israel, and they are quite a few.
>>
>> This is how many people feel nowadays, the actions and systematic
> murderous
>> policies of Israel make many think in exactly the same manner. You could
>> also probably include me in this as well, as I despise the way the
> Zionists
>> behave.
>
> I am much more carefull when using extreme words. Calling Israel's
> policies and actions "murderous" means that you not only acused
> Israel of murder, but proved and sentenced as well.
Plenty of evidence to back up my stance, of which I could rattle off quite a
few. For starters, bulldozing the family houses of dead suicide bombers is a
crime against humanity.
> From your low moral stature,
And what moral high ground do you claim to make such loaded statements ?
>I believe that you can, at best, accuse Israel, othewise
> you'll prove complete ignorance on what Israel does, it's legal system
> and practices.
Legal system and practices ?
Bit wayward isn't it ?
Israel as a nation state has no moral ground to stand on whatsoever.
Countless times the actions of Israel have been condemned Internationally.
Try again.
>Unless you have some solid proofs that Israel commits
> murder, you better avoid those words. I wonder what's your oppinion
> on a homicide bomber that kills intentionally civilian, women and
> children preffered.
Sabra and Shatilla.
Terrorist actions like dropping thousand pound bombs on residential blocks
of flats full of innocent civilians, to get one wanted man.
The above bulldozing of innocent people's houses, which contravenes the
Geneva Convention.
Assassination squads.
Car bombs on militant suspects.
These are NOT the actions of a civilised state conforming to International
law.
> Now, declaratively despising someone or something proves the same
> thing - it's comming in lieu of something more concrete. For two
> millenia, the Christians despised the Jews for what they did to Jesus,
> in spite that this was a blatant lie, acknowledged only recently by the
> Pope.
Sorry, but where have I mentioned anything about Christians or persecuting
of Jews throughout history ? Prey tell me where this comes into what we are
talking about ?
> So, in this field too, be more careful before sentencing one.
> You certainly can accuse, but listen to the other side - even if you'll
> go midway, it's better than taking one side only.
I've listened to the other side plenty, to abuse from the off from people
like RJ Goldman. He has NEVER attempted to discuss anything with me without
a liberal splashing of obscenities thrown in.
You are being polite to me, and for that I give you respect in return.
>>> The worst part is that he lost the listening ability and is constantly
>>> grinding the same note, regardless of the subject, making any
>>> intelligent discussion impossible - on this he's not alone, there are
>>> a few more that first write then think and, usually don't comprehend
>>> beyond the written words.
>>
>> Sounds to me like RJ Goldman, but thanks for taking the time to write and
>> tell me, I shall make my own mind up.
>
> I didn't compared you to anyone and respect everybody's uniqness. Now
> if I made you think, even for a moment, it's the best recompense for the
> time I spent writing you.
>
> think again,
I've done a lot of that, Giora, perhaps you should too.
Regards
Michael
R.J. Goldman
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA7A776F.1ABC2%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
alexz
The think that the mossad would spent a second on useless
cult members is as ridicules as the rest of your posts.
David Goldman <da...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<7tc85v0hhqsqg20pu...@4ax.com>...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 20/2/03 12:54 pm:
> No it doesn't and as for my personal data son your not getting anymore.
Son ?
I think not, it'll be difficult as we are both around the same age.
You see, I too served in the British Military at the same time as you served
in Israel. The difference is I served my country in a proper war, where we
fought by the Geneva Convention and didn't act like terrorists.
So, let me guess, you were born in the USA and then went to Israel, where
you also obtained yourself an Israeli passport - Correct ?
R.J. Goldman
Sorry I fought the Syrians the PLO PLFP AMAL and other assorted terrorist
groups. who had been shelling Israel prior to us fighting them.
Sniped quit a few ...
as for the terrorist thing of yours. get a life ass clown and NO we are not
the same age, I'm in my late 40's...
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA7AA5FC.1ACB7%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
Giora Drachsler
> >>> years and, for you and others, I'll state it loud and clear: he is a
man
> > of
> >>> culture, a polyglot with a vast knowledge and, most important, he
works,
> >>> earning his living - a rare combination for a ultra-Orthodox.
> >>
> >> Good for you on your openness and willingness to communicate.
> >
> > It's quite frustrating to be open alone.
>
> I'm sure it is, surrounded by those who do nothing but throw abuse at the
> slightest criticism of Israel. I suppose at least you don't immediately
> throw the anti-Semite tag into the ring and accuse me of being a
> 'Jew-Hater'.
That you hate the Jews, maybe only the bad Jews is more than evident
from your thoughts, however that's your problem - you didn't found out,
yet, that love is blind in one eye, hate is blind in both.
I try, as far as I can, to be balanced and objective, not an easy task
and a slippery way.
> > I am much more carefull when using extreme words. Calling Israel's
> > policies and actions "murderous" means that you not only acused
> > Israel of murder, but proved and sentenced as well.
>
> Plenty of evidence to back up my stance, of which I could rattle off quite
a
> few. For starters, bulldozing the family houses of dead suicide bombers is
a
> crime against humanity.
Demolishing the houses of the homicide murderes, after making sure
no one get's hurt is complies to the International and Israeli Law. Before
the demolition, the families can appeal to the High Court and part of
the demolitions are withheld.
On the other hand, try to think how humane would have those
homicide bombers look if they would have asked the crowd around
him to step back because he wants to blow himself up.
>
> > From your low moral stature,
> >I believe that you can, at best, accuse Israel, othewise
> > you'll prove complete ignorance on what Israel does, it's legal system
> > and practices.
>
> Legal system and practices ?
>
> Bit wayward isn't it ?
Your knowledge on Israel's Judiciary system is nil; come back after
you'll learn someting.
> Israel as a nation state has no moral ground to stand on whatsoever.
> Countless times the actions of Israel have been condemned Internationally.
Internationally? Only on forums with Arab majority.
> >Unless you have some solid proofs that Israel commits
> > murder, you better avoid those words. I wonder what's your oppinion
> > on a homicide bomber that kills intentionally civilian, women and
> > children preffered.
>
> Sabra and Shatilla.
Israel has nothing to do legally with that incident, only in the mind of
narrow thinking people, however the homicide murderers are more
than happily sent to certain death and their families are recompensed
with $25,000 for each bomber.
> Terrorist actions like dropping thousand pound bombs on residential blocks
> of flats full of innocent civilians, to get one wanted man.
I guess that aiming at random mortar shells and primitive rockets to
civilian areas is not less terrorist. I'd like to be more precise than you:
only one 500 kg bomb has been dropped to eliminate an archi-terrorist.
Since then, Israel adopted other means in fighting terrorism, quite
succesful lately.
>
> Assassination squads.
>
> Car bombs on militant suspects.
>
> These are NOT the actions of a civilised state conforming to International
> law.
What other choices has Israel in it's fight against indiscriminate terror?
Not to mention that they are more than effective.
> > Now, declaratively despising someone or something proves the same
> > thing - it's comming in lieu of something more concrete. For two
> > millenia, the Christians despised the Jews for what they did to Jesus,
> > in spite that this was a blatant lie, acknowledged only recently by the
> > Pope.
>
> Sorry, but where have I mentioned anything about Christians or persecuting
> of Jews throughout history ? Prey tell me where this comes into what we
are
> talking about ?
>
> You are being polite to me, and for that I give you respect in return.
>
> > I didn't compared you to anyone and respect everybody's uniqness. Now
> > if I made you think, even for a moment, it's the best recompense for the
> > time I spent writing you.
> >
> > think again,
>
> I've done a lot of that, Giora, perhaps you should too.
>
> Regards
>
> Michael
R.J. Goldman
"Giora Drachsler" <gi...@huji.ac.il> wrote in message
news:b34k6a$vua$1...@news.iucc.ac.il...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 2:14 am:
> Well lets see you fought a proper war? the Argies?
Round of applause.
> Sorry I fought the Syrians the PLO PLFP AMAL and other assorted terrorist
> groups. who had been shelling Israel prior to us fighting them.
Ha Ha Ha !
Wow, shelling eh, what was that, a few home-made efforts or some dodgy
Soviet stuff, that couldn't hit fuck-all from 100 yards ?
Then you all went over the top and charged I suppose, cold steel encounters?
As I say, NOT a proper war then.
> Sniped quit a few ...
I bet you did, and kept at a safe distance too no doubt, you coward.
RJ Goldman - up to his neck in muck and bullets ?
I think not, that should read - in my US Supplied Armoured Personnel
Carrier, in full body armour, sniping at innocent women and groups of twelve
year old children throwing stones, then going home to a comfy bed each
night.
Soldier my arse, you wouldn't know fear or the real face of battle if it
kicked you up the arse.
> as for the terrorist thing of yours. get a life ass clown and NO we are not
> the same age, I'm in my late 40's...
Oh, so me being in my 40's too doesn't make us around the same age then?
Me joining the military in '78, the same as you, doesn't make us around the
same age then ?
Who's the fucking arse clown now.
You still haven't answered, were you born in Israel or the USA ?
R.J. Goldman
but the little argies taught you a lesson using surplus IDF equipment.
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA7BEE70.1AE7C%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
> in article 5Tf5a.964$692...@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com, R.J. Goldman at
> rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 2:14 am:
>
> > Well lets see you fought a proper war? the Argies?
>
> Round of applause.
>
> > Sorry I fought the Syrians the PLO PLFP AMAL and other assorted
terrorist
> > groups. who had been shelling Israel prior to us fighting them.
>
> Ha Ha Ha !
>
> Wow, shelling eh, what was that, a few home-made efforts or some dodgy
> Soviet stuff, that couldn't hit fuck-all from 100 yards ?
>
> Then you all went over the top and charged I suppose, cold steel
encounters?
>
> As I say, NOT a proper war then.
>
> > Sniped quit a few ...
>
> I bet you did, and kept at a safe distance too no doubt, you coward.
>
> RJ Goldman - up to his neck in muck and bullets ?
>
> I think not, that should read - in my US Supplied Armoured Personnel
> Carrier, in full body armour, sniping at innocent women and groups of
twelve
> year old children throwing stones, then going home to a comfy bed each
> night.
>
> Soldier my arse, you wouldn't know fear or the real face of battle if it
> kicked you up the arse.
>
> > as for the terrorist thing of yours. get a life ass clown and NO we are
not
> > the same age, I'm in my late 40's...
>
R.J. Goldman
Forward artty observer. on foot,
but as for you I bet you were shagging sheep on that god forsaken shithole
of an island.
"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
news:BA7BEE70.1AE7C%mwc...@crusader-productions.com...
> in article 5Tf5a.964$692...@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com, R.J. Goldman at
> rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 2:14 am:
>
> > Well lets see you fought a proper war? the Argies?
>
> Round of applause.
>
> > Sorry I fought the Syrians the PLO PLFP AMAL and other assorted
terrorist
> > groups. who had been shelling Israel prior to us fighting them.
>
> Ha Ha Ha !
>
> Wow, shelling eh, what was that, a few home-made efforts or some dodgy
> Soviet stuff, that couldn't hit fuck-all from 100 yards ?
>
> Then you all went over the top and charged I suppose, cold steel
encounters?
>
> As I say, NOT a proper war then.
>
> > Sniped quit a few ...
>
> I bet you did, and kept at a safe distance too no doubt, you coward.
>
> RJ Goldman - up to his neck in muck and bullets ?
>
> I think not, that should read - in my US Supplied Armoured Personnel
> Carrier, in full body armour, sniping at innocent women and groups of
twelve
> year old children throwing stones, then going home to a comfy bed each
> night.
>
> Soldier my arse, you wouldn't know fear or the real face of battle if it
> kicked you up the arse.
>
> > as for the terrorist thing of yours. get a life ass clown and NO we are
not
> > the same age, I'm in my late 40's...
>
Giora Drachsler
passport, refusing to hold Israeli ID until the easy
welfare money made them swallow their pride and,
while they wave their American passport, in their back
pocket carry Israeli ID.
Israel is the home of the Jewish people and any one,
regardless of their inclination is entitled for citizenship,
with all its advantages, mainly for medical insurance.
Israeli hospitals, of the highest medical level, are
constantly enlarging their gynaecologic and pediatric
wards and guess who are their best clients?
--
Giora Drachsler
Jerusalem, Israel
"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:39v75v8nurfvens58...@4ax.com...
> Wrong again. Go check. The Zionists would have never allowed
> immigration certificates to be issued to anti-Zionists. They never
> even allowed them to be issued to Agudists.
>
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:44:50 -0500, "R.J. Goldman"
> <rgol...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >Sorry ass clown they came after WWII!!
> >
> >"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
> >news:47o75vkajrckf152h...@4ax.com...
> >> Neturei Karta do not INSIST on living there. They live there because
> >> their families lived there as religious Jews had always lived there
> >> long before there was a Zionist Reich, living in tranquility with
> >> their Arab neighbors, unlike the Zionist heretics who sought to
> >> ethnically cleanse the land to make room for their Zionist Reich.
> >>
> >> On 19 Feb 2003 11:01:31 -0800, na...@asm.net (Naine) wrote:
> >>
> >> >David Goldman <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
Giora Drachsler
news:43d72b53.03022...@posting.google.com...
> Do you comprehend how unimportant you and your sect are?
> The think that the mossad would spent a second on useless
> cult members is as ridicules as the rest of your posts.
Don't be so sure. They are just too busy now, but the time
will come . . . (pssssss)
Giora Drachsler
> When you say "Muslims", who do you mean?? How do you know who posts
> what on such websites? The Mossad has all kinds of ways of stirring up
. . . are you sure, behema?
Giora Drachsler
> > insist on living there?
> >
> > There is 17,000 empty mud huts in Ethiopia - what are you waiting for?
>
your
> fathers and grandfathers left, waiting for your to return - because that's
> all your are now, immigrants, on land that does not belong to you.
So far, you kept a civilized level of debate, without letting your urges
to surface, I hope that this will not change.
About those hundreds of thousands of houses in Eastern Europe, they
have been all confiscated by the various regimes while pointing to
the exit signs. Some emigrated to Israel, some to Western countries,
US and UK included.
Most of the land which is now Israel was malaria infested or arid
desert land where no one lived except for sporadic nomads. It's
the Jewish emigrants that made, with great effort, that land fertile
and today Israel exports its agricultural surpluses.
When the Arabs demand from us to leave, they mean that only we
should leave leaving the stores well stocked, banks with money,
and the nice houses we live in leave intact. Not once I heard
Arabs saying: with your work and our brains we'll get far.
So, before you play and re-play anti-Israeli slogans from the
hatred soaked Arab "information" centers, you'd better listen
to the other side too, it might be revealing and mind refreshing.
A visit here will probably shock you; partly from the difference
between the reality and the image you created in your mind
and partly from the beauty of the land and its people.
Michael W Cook
wrote on 21/2/03 7:23 am:
>>
>> I'm sure it is, surrounded by those who do nothing but throw abuse at the
>> slightest criticism of Israel. I suppose at least you don't immediately
>> throw the anti-Semite tag into the ring and accuse me of being a
>> 'Jew-Hater'.
>
> That you hate the Jews, maybe only the bad Jews is more than evident
> from your thoughts, however that's your problem - you didn't found out,
> yet, that love is blind in one eye, hate is blind in both.
I don't hate Jews at all, I have some very good friends who are Jewish.
Please show me evidence where I state that I hate Jews.
There are a very few individuals I hate, Bush, Sharon, Arafat, bin Laden,
Mugabe and the usual crowd. Yes, I hate Zionism and everything it stands
for, but I also hate the Catholic Church.
I judge people as individuals and how they treat me, not by their race or
colour, and certainly not by their religion.
> I try, as far as I can, to be balanced and objective, not an easy task
> and a slippery way.
So do I, Giora, but I also respond to rudeness and abuse when it is directed
at me. People like RJ Goldman don't seem to understand that by attacking
what someone says, with personnel abuse as an introduction, is NOT the way
to get off on a very good footing.
What you see is me responding in kind to his continued abuse.
>> Plenty of evidence to back up my stance, of which I could rattle off quite
> a
>> few. For starters, bulldozing the family houses of dead suicide bombers is
> a
>> crime against humanity.
>
> Demolishing the houses of the homicide murderes, after making sure
> no one get's hurt is complies to the International and Israeli Law. Before
> the demolition, the families can appeal to the High Court and part of
> the demolitions are withheld.
It's against the Geneva Convention, it's an abuse of Human Rights.
Just because it's a Law in Israel, doesn't make it an International Law.
What other Democracy or civilised state practices such acts ?
> On the other hand, try to think how humane would have those
> homicide bombers look if they would have asked the crowd around
> him to step back because he wants to blow himself up.
Imagine how humane the IDF would be if they announced on loud speakers that
they were about to shoot to kill teenagers throwing stones. The Gunships
also before they fire a missile into a civilian area or housing.
>>> From your low moral stature,
>>> I believe that you can, at best, accuse Israel, othewise
>>> you'll prove complete ignorance on what Israel does, it's legal system
>>> and practices.
>>
>> Legal system and practices ?
>>
>> Bit wayward isn't it ?
>
> Your knowledge on Israel's Judiciary system is nil; come back after
> you'll learn something.
I recognise murder and oppression when I see it.
>> Israel as a nation state has no moral ground to stand on whatsoever.
>> Countless times the actions of Israel have been condemned Internationally.
>
> Internationally? Only on forums with Arab majority.
Rubbish and you know it is.
UN Security Resolutions are from an Arab majority are they ?
>>> Unless you have some solid proofs that Israel commits
>>> murder, you better avoid those words. I wonder what's your oppinion
>>> on a homicide bomber that kills intentionally civilian, women and
>>> children preffered.
>>
>> Sabra and Shatilla.
>
> Israel has nothing to do legally with that incident, only in the mind of
> narrow thinking people,
Narrow thinking people ?
I see, the internal Israeli enquiry, which found Ariel Sharon personally
responsible for the atrocities, was made up of narrow thinking people was
it?
The incident was performed by Israel's allies.
The operation was overseen by the Israeli's under the command of Ariel
Sharon.
As they went about their murderous search through the camps, the Israeli
Army lighted the sky for them like it was day.
Sharon was advised and warned to withdraw them, he refused and let them
continue.
After the enquiry, Sharon was forced to resign from Office.
Saying Israel had nothing whatsoever to do with Sabra and Shatilla is like
saying the USA had nothing whatsoever to do with Armstrong's first walk on
the Moon - Laughable.
> however the homicide murderers are more
> than happily sent to certain death and their families are recompensed
> with $25,000 for each bomber.
How much does Israel pay the families of their dead combatants ?
>> Terrorist actions like dropping thousand pound bombs on residential blocks
>> of flats full of innocent civilians, to get one wanted man.
>
> I guess that aiming at random mortar shells and primitive rockets to
> civilian areas is not less terrorist. I'd like to be more precise than you:
> only one 500 kg bomb has been dropped to eliminate an archi-terrorist.
OK, one 500Kg Bomb = 1100lbs, lets be very precise shall we, dropped on a
residential block, murdering several innocent women and children - all to
get one man.
That's a crime against humanity.
>
> Since then, Israel adopted other means in fighting terrorism, quite
> succesful lately.
Terrorism with Terrorism - assassinations, car bombs etc
I say again, these are NOT the actions of a civilised state conforming to
International law.
> What other choices has Israel in it's fight against indiscriminate terror?
Get out of the land which doesn't belong to you, remove all the settlements
in the occupied territories, that would be a starter.
> Not to mention that they are more than effective.
That makes it right does it ?
So much for your "balanced and objective" outlook, your true Zionist colours
are showing through now.
The Nazi's policies and actions were also effective, but it doesn't make
what they did right. Israel's actions cause more and more people to line up
with a bomb strapped around them, with the intention of blowing you all to
pieces. Subsequently, we get an endless cycle of violence which neither side
can ever hope to win.
Michael
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 10:34 am:
> Great post!
>
> "Giora Drachsler" <gi...@huji.ac.il> wrote in message
> news:b34k6a$vua$1...@news.iucc.ac.il...
RJ Goldman can't formulate his own posts, so he resorts to congratulating
everyone else for saying things he is unable to write himself.
Two lines are his usual fare, liberally splattered with abuse.
Sad but true, all those years sniping at children on the Gaza Strip has
affected his ability to communicate with adults.
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 4:33 pm:
> You are an annoying little turd,
> but the little argies taught you a lesson using surplus IDF equipment.
Getting to you am I ?
Good, you don't know how pleased that makes me feel.
For your information, the Argies were a bunch of conscripts and ill
disciplined soldiers, who, once battle had commenced, were abandoned by
their totally incompetent commanders - they taught nobody a lesson, and
indeed they got a damn good hiding they still haven't forgotten.
They won't be back, unlike the Palestinians.
Once again, were you born in Israel or the US ?
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 4:35 pm:
Back for more then Action man ?
> sorry sonny boy,
Sonny Boy, again ?
I think you need to get some real service in first old chap, before you
start trying the 'pull up the sandbag tales' with me.
> Forward artty observer. on foot,
Obviously they didn't trust you with a vehicle.
Left 10 degrees, up 50 yards - about all you were fit for I suppose.
You weren't even a Forward Air Controller, just an Artillery Observer - a
job for a rookie and girls, or someone who can't be trusted.
How many schools and medical centres did you manage to hit ?
> but as for you I bet you were shagging sheep on that god forsaken shithole
> of an island.
That's right, and if you do it on a cliff edge, they push back harder.
Official Secrets Act old boy, need to know basis, and you don't need to
know. I don't brag about what I've seen and done, unlike a pretend soldier
like you.
Observer - Ha Ha Ha.
Michael Medved
> in article b34k6a$vua$1...@news.iucc.ac.il, Giora Drachsler at gi...@huji.ac.il
> wrote on 21/2/03 7:23 am:
>>>
>>> I'm sure it is, surrounded by those who do nothing but throw abuse at the
>>> slightest criticism of Israel. I suppose at least you don't immediately
>>> throw the anti-Semite tag into the ring and accuse me of being a
>>> 'Jew-Hater'.
>>
>> That you hate the Jews, maybe only the bad Jews is more than evident
>> from your thoughts, however that's your problem - you didn't found out,
>> yet, that love is blind in one eye, hate is blind in both.
> I don't hate Jews at all, I have some very good friends who are Jewish.
You know what's funny? Not once have I hear someone say it who
did not turn out to be an anti-semite. You don't seem to be an
exception.
Michael W Cook
med...@nautilus.shore.net wrote on 21/2/03 6:30 pm:
Yeah yeah yeah, hilarious isn't it.
Same for the Black man and the Arab as well.
Now go fuck yourself, I don't give a damn what you think, arsehole.
BTov
> in article 5Tf5a.964$692...@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com, R.J. Goldman at
> rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 2:14 am:
> > ..........
> > Sorry I fought the Syrians the PLO PLFP AMAL and other assorted terrorist
> > groups. who had been shelling Israel prior to us fighting them.
> Ha Ha Ha !
> Wow, shelling eh, what was that, a few home-made efforts or some dodgy
> Soviet stuff, that couldn't hit fuck-all from 100 yards ?
> .......and the rest of bulshitty bullshit...........
there's no better reward like cooking michael w KooK..
in contrast to the christian militias in 1982-1984 palistanians had
heavy weapons at the start of the civil war.
artillery : 107 mm (chinese origin), 122 mm, 130 mm, 155 mm, BM-21.
tanks : Charioteer, T34, T54, T55.
APC : M113
AK47, M16, RPG.
hardly `a few home-made efforts or some dodgy Soviet stuff, that
couldn't hit fuck-all from 100 yards'.
that sadly proves all your `military background' is polishing bowls in
the senior officers' head..
R.J. Goldman
went in.
"BTov" <dkas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bd24d00f.03022...@posting.google.com...
Michael W Cook
rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 11:09 pm:
> And least we not forget the Katushyas that rained on us for years before we
> went in.
People who have seen the horrors and face of battle never brag about it.
War and Death are nothing to be proud of.
Giora Drachsler
--
Giora Drachsler
Jerusalem, Israel
"Hildar2" <hil...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030221132351...@mb-fv.aol.com...
> Again Dracksler shows his jealousy for the US passport
>
> >Subject: Re: #Zionists: Ethiopian Christian Converts Yes! Native
Palestinians
> >No!
> >From: "Giora Drachsler" gi...@huji.ac.il
> >Date: 2/21/03 11:46 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <b35l4s$nr9$1...@news.iucc.ac.il>
Giora Drachsler
> I don't hate Jews at all, I have some very good friends who are Jewish.
> Please show me evidence where I state that I hate Jews.
Yes you do, but masked in anti-Zionism. Zionism is an idea to create
a home for the persecuted and depositioned Jews, mainly from Eastern
Europe where anti-Semitic pogroms begun in the 19th century. At the
creation of the State of Israel, a Law was passed to let anyone of Jewish
origin to Israeli citizenship. The problem was, mainly at the beginning,
the hard life here and the high risks they were taken. Many couldn't
bear the situation and left with the generous help from anti-Zionist
organizations.
From the Western countries many emigrated to Israel when it was
fashionable, in the '50s, after '67 . . . but most of them returned to
the comfortable chairs they left back home.
> There are a very few individuals I hate, Bush, Sharon, Arafat, bin Laden,
> Mugabe and the usual crowd. Yes, I hate Zionism and everything it stands
> for, but I also hate the Catholic Church.
(I like your list)
> I judge people as individuals and how they treat me, not by their race or
> colour, and certainly not by their religion.
Then how come you hate Zionism. Again, it's an idea that served as
a cohesion tool BEFORE the creation of the State of Israel. Although
the word is still used, it lost its purpose long ago, except in the bitter
eyes of Israel haters.
> > I try, as far as I can, to be balanced and objective, not an easy task
> > and a slippery way.
>
> So do I, Giora, but I also respond to rudeness and abuse when it is
directed
> at me. People like RJ Goldman don't seem to understand that by attacking
> what someone says, with personnel abuse as an introduction, is NOT the way
> to get off on a very good footing.
Then ignore him and address me.
> >> Plenty of evidence to back up my stance, of which I could rattle off
quite a
> >> few. For starters, bulldozing the family houses of dead suicide bombers
is a
> >> crime against humanity.
> >
> > Demolishing the houses of the homicide murderes, after making sure
> > no one get's hurt is complies to the International and Israeli Law.
Before
> > the demolition, the families can appeal to the High Court and part of
> > the demolitions are withheld.
>
> It's against the Geneva Convention, it's an abuse of Human Rights.
> Just because it's a Law in Israel, doesn't make it an International Law.
> What other Democracy or civilised state practices such acts ?
It is not illegal, besides, what other choices we have? Succombing
to the brutal, inhumane, terror actions is not considered as a possibility.
Other Democracies? Where on earth you can find such organized
terrorism? You certainly would have talked differently if you would
have been afraid to go to the supermarket or ride a bus.
> > On the other hand, try to think how humane would have those
> > homicide bombers look if they would have asked the crowd around
> > him to step back because he wants to blow himself up.
>
> Imagine how humane the IDF would be if they announced on loud speakers
that
> they were about to shoot to kill teenagers throwing stones. The Gunships
> also before they fire a missile into a civilian area or housing.
As a rule, IDF never open fire on women and children. Accidents do
happen, mostly because they are used as humane shields. On the
other hand, the Arab terrorists will always blow up where women
and children are most. You may argue with me vehemently on this,
but that's only from your lack of knowledge. Life is not slogans
and (mis)conceptions - try to imagine living among people where
their pride is far more important that human life, not to mention
work. I am making here another humble attempt to call you to
broaden your knowledge on the situation here, by listening to
the other side too. Assuming both sides lie or telling their truth,
for you, the midway should have control on your oppinions and
hatred.
> > Your knowledge on Israel's Judiciary system is nil; come back after
> > you'll learn something.
>
> I recognise murder and oppression when I see it.
But you don't see it. At best, you are a news-literate on rating obsessed
news and newsmen, but from the understanding of the situation, your
information is enhanced from Arab propaganda too.
> >> Israel as a nation state has no moral ground to stand on whatsoever.
Well, it has been accepted by the UN in '48, not much in your eyes
> > however the homicide murderers are more
> > than happily sent to certain death and their families are recompensed
> > with $25,000 for each bomber.
> How much does Israel pay the families of their dead combatants ?
You won't believe, but not much, it is not profitable in Israel to
fall in combat. And we have many - practicaly you can't find a
family in Israel without a casualty, probably not much in your eyes
> >> Terrorist actions like dropping thousand pound bombs on residential
blocks
> >> of flats full of innocent civilians, to get one wanted man.
> >
> > I guess that aiming at random mortar shells and primitive rockets to
> > civilian areas is not less terrorist. I'd like to be more precise than
you:
> > only one 500 kg bomb has been dropped to eliminate an archi-terrorist.
>
> OK, one 500Kg Bomb = 1100lbs, lets be very precise shall we, dropped on a
> residential block, murdering several innocent women and children - all to
> get one man.
>
> That's a crime against humanity.
It was a fortified heavy concrete building where a bloody terrorist
headquarter conducted their actions, as usual, amid civilians. To
penetrate it a large charge had to be used. The civilian casualties
were, relatively, small in number - you can't imagine what a 500 kg
bomb could have do to a residential are. Enough if I'll say that
4-5 kg of explosive will blow up a four stories house. In this case,
the bomb penetrated the wall of the building killing all inside. From
the enourmous shock, not from the explosion itself, 15 civilians
casualties have been counted.
> > Since then, Israel adopted other means in fighting terrorism, quite
> > succesful lately.
>
> Terrorism with Terrorism - assassinations, car bombs etc
> I say again, these are NOT the actions of a civilised state conforming to
> International law.
Not in your eyes - but, believe me, we try to be as civilized as
possible, however in a jungle you should be prepared. For an
armchair faultfinder it's easy to demand an enlightened conduct,
but if you would have known the reality, you would have prattle
differently
> > What other choices has Israel in it's fight against indiscriminate
terror?
>
> Get out of the land which doesn't belong to you, remove all the
settlements
> in the occupied territories, that would be a starter.
We tried that one too, without much success.
> The Nazi's policies and actions were also effective, but it doesn't make
> what they did right. Israel's actions cause more and more people to line
up
> with a bomb strapped around them, with the intention of blowing you all to
> pieces. Subsequently, we get an endless cycle of violence which neither
side
> can ever hope to win.
Well, it was true until a while ago. By now, probably to your fright, most
of the homicides are captured before they reach us but, even more, lately,
the PA begun to ask for talks assuring a year of avoidance of terrorist
conduct, another reason to repeat my appeal for better information than
you get now.
Giora Drachsler
Why should I take all the credit? Hey, act your age -- senile!
--
Giora Drachsler
Jerusalem, Israel
"Hildar2" <hil...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030222072526...@mb-ca.aol.com...
> If I am so stupid as he claims why is Dracksler using my very words and
> incoprating them as his own. Those things are the subject of my recent
notes.
>
> Hilda
>
> >ubject: Re: #Zionists: Ethiopian Christian Converts Yes! Native
Palestinians
> >No!
> >From: "Giora Drachsler" gi...@huji.ac.il
> >Date: 2/21/03 12:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <b35ngn$pfe$1...@news.iucc.ac.il>
> >
> >"Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message >
> >>
BTov
unusual thinking from the usual kook
i wish you succeess in driving this home to islamic jihad and other
muslim death & destruction cultists
Michael W Cook
wrote on 22/2/03 7:21 am:
> "Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
>
>> I don't hate Jews at all, I have some very good friends who are Jewish.
>> Please show me evidence where I state that I hate Jews.
>
> Yes you do, but masked in anti-Zionism.
So you say.
Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not the same thing.
If I hate Jews so much, why am I conversing with you. I don't hate you, in
fact, I'd probably quite like to meet you and discuss things with you - You
are obviously far more intelligent and literate than most of the morons on
this group.
> Zionism is an idea to create
> a home for the persecuted and depositioned Jews, mainly from Eastern
> Europe where anti-Semitic pogroms begun in the 19th century.
And since Israel's creation, it has cost billions and billions of dollars
and countless hundreds of thousands of lives.
>At the
> creation of the State of Israel, a Law was passed to let anyone of Jewish
> origin to Israeli citizenship. The problem was, mainly at the beginning,
> the hard life here and the high risks they were taken. Many couldn't
> bear the situation and left with the generous help from anti-Zionist
> organizations.
Then they had some sense in my eyes.
> From the Western countries many emigrated to Israel when it was
> fashionable, in the '50s, after '67 . . . but most of them returned to
> the comfortable chairs they left back home.
I get the impression that you don't think very highly of these people.
>> There are a very few individuals I hate, Bush, Sharon, Arafat, bin Laden,
>> Mugabe and the usual crowd. Yes, I hate Zionism and everything it stands
>> for, but I also hate the Catholic Church.
>
> (I like your list)
Sarcasm again ?
Or are you being sincere.
>> I judge people as individuals and how they treat me, not by their race or
>> colour, and certainly not by their religion.
>
> Then how come you hate Zionism.
As I mentioned earlier, since the formation of Israel, it has done nothing
but bring death and destruction to the area, instability, and both sides are
constantly living in fear of each other. The bitter hatred caused by the
formation of a Zionist State is quite evident here on this group, and that
is only in words. The suffering it has caused to countless thousands of
people over the years, the deaths and destruction, far outweighs any
justification in my eyes.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the Palestinian cause is a bed of roses
and shining bright lights of good over evil, they are as responsible as
everyone else involved who has kept this hatred alive.
> Again, it's an idea that served as
> a cohesion tool BEFORE the creation of the State of Israel. Although
> the word is still used, it lost its purpose long ago, except in the bitter
> eyes of Israel haters.
Why the 'bitter eyes' ?
on RJ Goldman
> Then ignore him and address me.
I am.
>>> Demolishing the houses of the homicide murderes, after making sure
>>> no one get's hurt is complies to the International and Israeli Law.
> Before
>>> the demolition, the families can appeal to the High Court and part of
>>> the demolitions are withheld.
>>
>> It's against the Geneva Convention, it's an abuse of Human Rights.
>> Just because it's a Law in Israel, doesn't make it an International Law.
>> What other Democracy or civilised state practices such acts ?
>
> It is not illegal,
It is under International Law - Collective Punishment.
> Besides, what other choices we have?
Talk to people for starters, answer with words, not the gun all the time.
It's like pouring petrol on an open fire, or rubbing salt into an open
wound, whoever thought such a thing is a justifiable action is either stupid
or down right evil, it's a crime against humanity - for heaven sake, Giora,
the Nazi's used to do such things.
The bottom line is that the practice is used as a collective punishment,
which is outlawed under the Geneva conventions.
> Succombing
> to the brutal, inhumane, terror actions is not considered as a possibility.
> Other Democracies? Where on earth you can find such organized
> terrorism? You certainly would have talked differently if you would
> have been afraid to go to the supermarket or ride a bus.
Don't forget, Goria, we have lived under the threat of the IRA in London for
a good thirty odd years, albeit not on the same scale, but nevertheless,
that threat has always been there.
>>> On the other hand, try to think how humane would have those
>>> homicide bombers look if they would have asked the crowd around
>>> him to step back because he wants to blow himself up.
>>
>> Imagine how humane the IDF would be if they announced on loud speakers
> that
>> they were about to shoot to kill teenagers throwing stones. The Gunships
>> also before they fire a missile into a civilian area or housing.
>
> As a rule, IDF never open fire on women and children. Accidents do
> happen, mostly because they are used as humane shields. On the
> other hand, the Arab terrorists will always blow up where women
> and children are most. You may argue with me vehemently on this,
> but that's only from your lack of knowledge.
No it isn't, you are bound to say such things because that is what you are
fed each day in your media. When Women or Children are killed there is
always some justification sited by the authorities and that is that.
There is no come back from anyone else, for the bereaved families, witnesses
if available are quickly discredited. Just two days ago a doctor and his
assistant were sniped by Israeli troops at while on their way to visit a
patient, killing the assistant.
What happened there ?
Will there be a full investigation, will the culprit be charged with murder?
Of course they won't, at best he'll get a slapped wrist and it'll be
forgotten about before the month's out.
You read the party line, Goria, therefore you are totally biased.
Almost 30 years after the event we are still having enquiries in the UK on a
case where some British Paratroopers opened fire on a civilian population
and killed several people. They were rioting, missiles were being thrown,
petrol bombs etc, shots were also supposed to have been fired at the troops.
It matters not here who is the guilty party in this case, but the point is I
can't EVER see this sort of justice happening in Israel.
> Life is not slogans
> and (mis)conceptions - try to imagine living among people where
> their pride is far more important that human life, not to mention
> work. I am making here another humble attempt to call you to
> broaden your knowledge on the situation here, by listening to
> the other side too. Assuming both sides lie or telling their truth,
> for you, the midway should have control on your oppinions and
> hatred.
I do listen to your argument and pleas, and you have my full sympathy, but
it very much takes two to tango, and answering extreme violence with even
more extreme violence in return is going to solve nothing.
>>> Your knowledge on Israel's Judiciary system is nil; come back after
>>> you'll learn something.
>>
>> I recognise murder and oppression when I see it.
>
> But you don't see it. At best, you are a news-literate on rating obsessed
> news and newsmen, but from the understanding of the situation, your
> information is enhanced from Arab propaganda too.
Good job I'm not in America then, I feel we have a broad unbiased coverage
of the news here in the UK, as opposed to a one-side view they get across
the water.
>> How much does Israel pay the families of their dead combatants ?
>
> You won't believe, but not much, it is not profitable in Israel to
> fall in combat. And we have many - practicaly you can't find a
> family in Israel without a casualty, probably not much in your eyes.
I have no reason to disbelieve you at all, it's probably the same as British
Troops who have been killed on active service, a pittance.
I'm sure if I also went amongst the Palestinians, I would find equal numbers
of families who have suffered similarly.
snip for the sake of sanity, for both of us
>>> Since then, Israel adopted other means in fighting terrorism, quite
>>> succesful lately.
>>
>> Terrorism with Terrorism - assassinations, car bombs etc
>> I say again, these are NOT the actions of a civilised state conforming to
>> International law.
>
> Not in your eyes - but, believe me, we try to be as civilized as
> possible, however in a jungle you should be prepared. For an
> armchair faultfinder it's easy to demand an enlightened conduct,
> but if you would have known the reality, you would have prattle
> differently.
I'm no armchair fault finder, I've seen what war can do to people, I've also
seen comrades ripped to pieces by machine gun fire. I know full well what is
going on, and I know what is going on in the minds of the combatants.
You don't have to preach to me on the horrors and filthiness of war.
>>
>> Get out of the land which doesn't belong to you, remove all the
> settlements
>> in the occupied territories, that would be a starter.
>
> We tried that one too, without much success.
When ?
At the Camp David talks, one of the main points under discussion was to stop
the building of settlements in the Occupied Territories - the bulldozers and
JCB's continued building unabated while the talks were in progress, that's
how serious Israel were of negotiating a peace.
I saw a map about ten months ago which showed where all these settlements
were, thinking previously that they were scattered here and there, mainly
close to the borders etc. Imagine my horror when I saw a map that looked
like it was covered in a rash, everywhere.
It's an absolute disgrace, they should not be there at all, not one of them.
>> The Nazi's policies and actions were also effective, but it doesn't make
>> what they did right. Israel's actions cause more and more people to line
> up
>> with a bomb strapped around them, with the intention of blowing you all to
>> pieces. Subsequently, we get an endless cycle of violence which neither
> side
>> can ever hope to win.
>
> Well, it was true until a while ago. By now, probably to your fright, most
> of the homicides are captured before they reach us but, even more, lately,
> the PA begun to ask for talks assuring a year of avoidance of terrorist
> conduct, another reason to repeat my appeal for better information than
> you get now.
That's no answer I'm afraid.
Please, Giora, give me a little of the respect I have shown for you in
return, if nothing else.
Regards
Michael
Michael W Cook
dkas...@hotmail.com wrote on 22/2/03 6:55 pm:
Try telling them yourself, it's the actions and words of people like you who
breed such cults.
BTov
> BTov:
> > Michael W Cook <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote in message
> > news:<BA7C7BD6.1AFDB%mwc...@crusader-productions.com>...
> >> in article xgy5a.128$hW6...@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com, R.J. Goldman at
> >> rgol...@bellsouth.net wrote on 21/2/03 11:09 pm:
> >>> And least we not forget the Katushyas that rained on us for years before we
> >>> went in.
> >> People who have seen the horrors and face of battle never brag about it.
> >> War and Death are nothing to be proud of.
> > unusual thinking from the usual kook
> > i wish you succeess in driving this home to islamic jihad and other
> > muslim death & destruction cultists
> Try telling them yourself, it's the actions and words of people like you who
> breed such cults.
mr KooK
i don't remember ever being a mullah to breed these jihadist
death&destruction cults with friday rabid hate hour sermons.
it's telling that you dodge your responsibility
tokugawa
they claim to describe.
"R.J. Goldman" <rgol...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1ts5a.1396$O34...@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>...
R.J. Goldman
here is more about you that was found out,
and I QUOTE:
When I returned home to Israel in 1984 to begin an academic career,
...9/6/2002 12:18AM PST | #121
And what makes you think I'm an Israeli? I'm not. Are you? ...9/6/2002
05:18PM PST | #205
End Quote
"tokugawa" <truth_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb0ae2f1.03022...@posting.google.com...
tokugawa
> Yes they show that I see people like you for what you are!!
> here is more about you that was found out,
>
> and I QUOTE:
>
> When I returned home to Israel in 1984 to begin an academic career,
> ...9/6/2002 12:18AM PST | #121
>
> And what makes you think I'm an Israeli? I'm not. Are you? ...9/6/2002
> 05:18PM PST | #205
I never made those assertions. I think you are confusing me with
someone else. Which is not surprising, since you seem confused most
of the time.
Hint: look at the NAME of the person who made the POST.
R.J. Goldman
"tokugawa" <truth_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb0ae2f1.03022...@posting.google.com...
Giora Drachsler
> >> Please show me evidence where I state that I hate Jews.
> >
> > Yes you do, but masked in anti-Zionism.
>
> So you say.
> Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not the same thing.
Just the way you said it "I have some very good friends who are Jewish"
divulge your way of thinking. At least, I use this expression in sarcasm.
Now any anti-XXXXX come out of hatred and since most of the Zionists
are Jews your expression above is incorrect
> If I hate Jews so much, why am I conversing with you. I don't hate you, in
> fact, I'd probably quite like to meet you and discuss things with you -
You
> are obviously far more intelligent and literate than most of the morons on
> this group.
Doesn't disturb you that I live in Israel and, by your rules, a Zionist.
Without
getting in details, I live here, work here and paying my tribute to the
society,
living, as a clever man said:"Born free, taxed to death"
> > Zionism is an idea to create
> > a home for the persecuted and depositioned Jews, mainly from Eastern
> > Europe where anti-Semitic pogroms begun in the 19th century.
>
> And since Israel's creation, it has cost billions and billions of dollars
> and countless hundreds of thousands of lives.
Exaggeration is the honest man's way of lying. True, we got and still
get military aid; Israel budget's thirs is going to defence, in the last two
years even more. In view of the insatiable crave of our neighbours to
drive us in the sea, we have to keep a military supremacy to keep
good neighbours. Any way, the military aid we get (3 billion yearly)
is limited to purchase US made goods, so, in a way, we keep many
Americans employed. From time to time, Israel asks for loan guaranties
to make the loans cheaper, which, again, make more Americans
emplyed.
About hudreds of thousands of dead - since it's creation, Israel
has lost slightly more than 20,000 lives in combat and terror actions,
about 10 fold injured, that a 6 million nation can bear, not without
pain and grief. The casualties on the Arab side, all together, are
rougly double these figures, but their population is more than 10
fold of htat of Israel - not that it was less painfull for them.
> >At the
> > creation of the State of Israel, a Law was passed to let anyone of
Jewish
> > origin to Israeli citizenship. The problem was, mainly at the
beginning,
> > the hard life here and the high risks they were taken. Many couldn't
> > bear the situation and left with the generous help from anti-Zionist
> > organizations.
>
> Then they had some sense in my eyes.
Be flexible so you don't break when a harsh wind blows. I'd say
they were not flexible enough.
>
> > From the Western countries many emigrated to Israel when it was
> > fashionable, in the '50s, after '67 . . . but most of them returned to
> > the comfortable chairs they left back home.
>
> I get the impression that you don't think very highly of these people.
No, but I don't hate them. You have to understand them, they got
many blows here. They left a very confortable way of life and here
they didn't received the gratitute they expected to get.
On top of that, they thought that good knowledge of the Western
way of life supercede the culture many Europeans come with.
> > Then how come you hate Zionism.
>
> As I mentioned earlier, since the formation of Israel, it has done nothing
> but bring death and destruction to the area, instability, and both sides
are
> constantly living in fear of each other. The bitter hatred caused by the
> formation of a Zionist State is quite evident here on this group, and that
> is only in words. The suffering it has caused to countless thousands of
> people over the years, the deaths and destruction, far outweighs any
> justification in my eyes.
> Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the Palestinian cause is a bed of
roses
> and shining bright lights of good over evil, they are as responsible as
> everyone else involved who has kept this hatred alive.
Wrong again. Israel is by now green from top to bottom with a forefront
industry and a plentiful agriculture, all this as a summation of
uninterrupted
hard work of all of us and today, is a regional economic giant. A good
part of the hatred of our neighbors come from envy for our standard
of living, they just easily ignore the fact that while the average Israeli
worked in two places, his Arab counterpart lived on UNWRA's welfare
and, in the spare time, procreated at an unheard rate
> > Besides, what other choices we have?
>
> Talk to people for starters, answer with words, not the gun all the time.
We did that, still do, even tese days and it's not easy, to say the least
> It's like pouring petrol on an open fire, or rubbing salt into an open
> wound, whoever thought such a thing is a justifiable action is either
stupid
> or down right evil, it's a crime against humanity - for heaven sake,
Giora,
> the Nazi's used to do such things.
The Nazis didn't evacuated the buildings first.
> > Succombing
> > to the brutal, inhumane, terror actions is not considered as a
possibility.
> > Other Democracies? Where on earth you can find such organized
> > terrorism? You certainly would have talked differently if you would
> > have been afraid to go to the supermarket or ride a bus.
>
> Don't forget, Goria, we have lived under the threat of the IRA in London
for
> a good thirty odd years, albeit not on the same scale, but nevertheless,
> that threat has always been there.
That's the magic word - not on the same scale. In the last two-three years
only, the Palestinians planned about 20,000 terror actions. Homicide
murderers, sniper fire or just plain explosive charges. True, many have
been prevented, many went wrong (occupational hazards), still, more
than 2,000 succeeded with hundreds of dead and thousands of injured
because, as a rule, their charges were half explosive, half nails to
increase as much as possible the number of casualties. If you would
have seen the cranial X-ray of an infant with two long nails in his brain
you would have talked differently
> > As a rule, IDF never open fire on women and children. Accidents do
> > happen, mostly because they are used as humane shields. On the
> > other hand, the Arab terrorists will always blow up where women
> > and children are most. You may argue with me vehemently on this,
> > but that's only from your lack of knowledge.
>
> No it isn't, you are bound to say such things because that is what you are
> fed each day in your media. When Women or Children are killed there is
> always some justification sited by the authorities and that is that.
> There is no come back from anyone else, for the bereaved families,
witnesses
> if available are quickly discredited. Just two days ago a doctor and his
> assistant were sniped by Israeli troops at while on their way to visit a
> patient, killing the assistant.
>
> What happened there ?
It's a blatant lie, one of the many the Arabs spread and you, and
the Western world is buying it, much in the same way that an
unimaginable number of Europeans are considering Sadam
Hussein a mild, peacefull head of state
> I do listen to your argument and pleas, and you have my full sympathy, but
> it very much takes two to tango, and answering extreme violence with even
> more extreme violence in return is going to solve nothing.
>
> > But you don't see it. At best, you are a news-literate on rating
obsessed
> > news and newsmen, but from the understanding of the situation, your
> > information is enhanced from Arab propaganda too.
>
> Good job I'm not in America then, I feel we have a broad unbiased coverage
> of the news here in the UK, as opposed to a one-side view they get across
> the water.
BBC, SKY, don't make me laugh. While in other affairs they may be
balanced, when the Middle East comes, only the Arab side is presented
We do see them here and don't believe how discriminate they are.
> >> Terrorism with Terrorism - assassinations, car bombs etc
> >> I say again, these are NOT the actions of a civilised state conforming
to
> >> International law.
> >
> > Not in your eyes - but, believe me, we try to be as civilized as
> > possible, however in a jungle you should be prepared. For an
> > armchair faultfinder it's easy to demand an enlightened conduct,
> > but if you would have known the reality, you would have prattle
> > differently.
>
> I'm no armchair fault finder, I've seen what war can do to people, I've
also
> seen comrades ripped to pieces by machine gun fire. I know full well what
is
> going on, and I know what is going on in the minds of the combatants.
> You don't have to preach to me on the horrors and filthiness of war.
>
> At the Camp David talks, one of the main points under discussion was to
stop
> the building of settlements in the Occupied Territories - the bulldozers
and
> JCB's continued building unabated while the talks were in progress, that's
> how serious Israel were of negotiating a peace.
>
> I saw a map about ten months ago which showed where all these settlements
> were, thinking previously that they were scattered here and there, mainly
> close to the borders etc. Imagine my horror when I saw a map that looked
> like it was covered in a rash, everywhere.
>
> It's an absolute disgrace, they should not be there at all, not one of
them.
Take them with a grain of salt, I don't like it too, but take them in
proportion. They occupy about 3% of the area and they number 100,000
at best. On top of that, 90% of them will evacuate in a civilized manner
at the final agreement, though 10% will make a lot of troubles.
Have a nice day,
--
Giora Drachsler
Jerusalem, Israel
(PS. Watch my first name. It's an ancient Hebrew male name, just in case .
. )
tokugawa
first post occurs on 12/31/02. Your confusion has increased by an
order of magnitude.
"R.J. Goldman" <rgol...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<YQ56a.40449$hW6....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>...
R.J. Goldman
You have been exposed as a lying sack. you refuse to answer direct questions
on the Liberty and you avoid them by cutting them away and pasting the same
tired bullshit.
You son are done here,
you have been exposed for the fake you are
Michael W Cook
wrote on 23/2/03 7:30 pm:
> "Michael W Cook" <mwc...@crusader-productions.com> wrote
>>
>>>> I don't hate Jews at all, I have some very good friends who are Jewish.
>>>> Please show me evidence where I state that I hate Jews.
>>>
>>> Yes you do, but masked in anti-Zionism.
>>
>> So you say.
>> Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not the same thing.
>
> Just the way you said it "I have some very good friends who are Jewish"
> divulge your way of thinking.
And by you stating such nonsense, divulges how very wrong your thinking is.
I also have a number of friends who are Black, as well as a number of
friends who are gay, one of whom I've just spent the last 2 hours with
walking my dogs.
By merely stating such a thing, according to your logic, it makes me a
racist. In fact, my gay friend is also Jewish, so that makes me a Homophobic
and anti-Semite.
Perhaps I was a little hasty in calling you intelligent and literate and
separating you out from the usual nonsense written here, especially with
wild statements and conclusions drawn like that above.
You disappoint me.
>At least, I use this expression in sarcasm.
> Now any anti-XXXXX come out of hatred and since most of the Zionists
> are Jews your expression above is incorrect
>> If I hate Jews so much, why am I conversing with you. I don't hate you, in
>> fact, I'd probably quite like to meet you and discuss things with you -
>> You are obviously far more intelligent and literate than most of the morons
>> on this group.
>
> Doesn't disturb you that I live in Israel and, by your rules, a Zionist.
No, on the contrary, it doesn't disturb me at all, in fact I gathered that
from your name and the fact that you state you come from Jerusalem at the
end of your posts. You have been polite to me, if a little condescending at
times, and as I stated, I judge people from the way they treat me, not by
their colour, race or religion.
> Without getting in details, I live here, work here and paying my tribute to
> the society, iving, as a clever man said:"Born free, taxed to death"
Good for you, and long may your life continue.
>>> Zionism is an idea to create
>>> a home for the persecuted and depositioned Jews, mainly from Eastern
>>> Europe where anti-Semitic pogroms begun in the 19th century.
>>
>> And since Israel's creation, it has cost billions and billions of dollars
>> and countless hundreds of thousands of lives.
>
> Exaggeration is the honest man's way of lying.
And what would you call your stance, an honest way to deflect the truth ?
snip
> Have a nice day,
> --
> Giora Drachsler
> Jerusalem, Israel
And you too.
Regards
Michael