Re: Multiculturalism policies in Britain a failure, says PM David Cameron
Dug
news:fdrqk6hb2e4dsdlk4...@4ax.com...
> http://www.news.com.au/world/multiculturalism-policies-in-britain-a-failure-says-pm-david-cameron/story-e6frfkyi-1226000767708
Is his solution to hurry-up and make Britain an islamic state? Because
really, once that happens
no one in Britain will have to worry about mulitculturalism ever again as
the Copts, Chaldeans
and Assyrians have found out the hard way.
I got a good laugh out of this dhimmi quote:
Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
thing".
FACE
<andx...@gggmail.com>, wrote
>"FACE" <AFaceIn...@today.net> wrote in message
>news:fdrqk6hb2e4dsdlk4...@4ax.com...
>> http://www.news.com.au/world/multiculturalism-policies-in-britain-a-failure-says-pm-david-cameron/story-e6frfkyi-1226000767708
>
>Is his solution to hurry-up and make Britain an islamic state? Because
>really, once that happens
>no one in Britain will have to worry about mulitculturalism ever again as
>the Copts, Chaldeans
>and Assyrians have found out the hard way.
You sure got that right!
>
>I got a good laugh out of this dhimmi quote:
>
>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>thing".
>
"As if" you could separate them.
FACE
>
DVH
>
>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>thing".
>>
>
> "As if" you could separate them.
Since it appears to be your mission to persuade people that they are one and
the same, and that there is no moderate islam, may I ask what action you
would like your persuadees to take once persuaded?
abelard
wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 07:48:39 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>thing".
>"As if" you could separate them.
you want him to declare a million or two as enemies....
at this point?
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dug
news:Ecg3p.92694$lM.7...@newsfe14.ams2...
Please point out to me in which muslime fuck country "moderate" pislam
is practiced.
FACE
<d...@vhvhvhvh.com>, wrote
Whatever action, or none, that others take is up to them. However, since
you ask what would i like, I'd like to see the islamic takeover of the
West prevented.
There is no moderate islam, there is only islam, so says PM Erdogan and
others of the islamic faith. He says that it's an insult to islam to
speak of it in degrees.
I say that what you call a "moderate muslim" is actually an apostate to
islam and I can back that up with koranic scripture and tafseer and hadith
but I don't think you are actually asking that.
That should answer your question.
What is your position on the same question you ask of me and your view on
"moderate" islam so that I can consider that your "mission"? (Just think,
20 years ago you would have used the perfectly good word "crusade" instead
of "mission" but you, like the rest of the West, have become too
dhimmified to do so.)
FACE
abelard
wrote:
britain...or anywhere else, until the get real power
DVH
"Dug" <andx...@gggmail.com> wrote in message
news:iik4a5$ntt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Every muslim's a moderate until he blows up a jet.
Every country is moderate until it lynches some Jews or Christians or blows
up the wrong brand of mosque.
But where are you going with your question...
DVH
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:57:52 -0000, in alt.politics.immigration, "DVH"
> <d...@vhvhvhvh.com>, wrote
>
>>
>>"FACE" <AFaceIn...@today.net> wrote in message
>>news:7tsqk61oktnrpbimn...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>>thing".
>>>>
>>>
>>> "As if" you could separate them.
>>
>>Since it appears to be your mission to persuade people that they are one
>>and
>>the same, and that there is no moderate islam, may I ask what action you
>>would like your persuadees to take once persuaded?
>>
>
> Whatever action, or none, that others take is up to them. However, since
> you ask what would i like, I'd like to see the islamic takeover of the
> West prevented.
How? By means of law, for example?
Would you ban the practice of islam?
>
> There is no moderate islam, there is only islam, so says PM Erdogan and
> others of the islamic faith. He says that it's an insult to islam to
> speak of it in degrees.
>
> I say that what you call a "moderate muslim"
> is actually an apostate to
> islam and I can back that up with koranic scripture and tafseer and hadith
> but I don't think you are actually asking that.
>
> That should answer your question.
>
> What is your position on the same question you ask of me and your view on
> "moderate" islam so that I can consider that your "mission"?
I don't really think in terms of categories for these purposes. I don't know
what moderate islam is, although i do recognise a fundy when I see one.
> (Just think,
> 20 years ago you would have used the perfectly good word "crusade" instead
> of "mission" but you, like the rest of the West, have become too
> dhimmified to do so.)
Sure. Let's call it a crusade if you want.
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>Please point out to me in which muslime fuck country "moderate" pislam
>>is practiced.
>
>britain...or anywhere else, until the get real power
>
Which goes back to your Erdogan quote on Democracy.............
abelard
wrote:
all religions tend to be that way out...
you can see it in the dissenters when they got established in the usa
you can see it with socialism when they attain serious power...
regards
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:01:52 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 07:48:39 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>
>>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>thing".
>
>>"As if" you could separate them.
>
>you want him to declare a million or two as enemies....
>at this point?
>
>regards
Did I say that?
I will ask you if you think the best course is to remain forever on
defense.
FACE
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 13:38:42 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:26:25 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>
>>>>Please point out to me in which muslime fuck country "moderate" pislam
>>>>is practiced.
>>>
>>>britain...or anywhere else, until the get real power
>
>>Which goes back to your Erdogan quote on Democracy.............
>
>all religions tend to be that way out...
>you can see it in the dissenters when they got established in the usa
>you can see it with socialism when they attain serious power...
>
All religions?
FACE
<d...@vhvhvhvh.com>, wrote
What a nice little evasion you make.
>> (Just think,
>> 20 years ago you would have used the perfectly good word "crusade" instead
>> of "mission" but you, like the rest of the West, have become too
>> dhimmified to do so.)
>
>Sure. Let's call it a crusade if you want.
>
I noticed in your original post you ascribe some form of "persuade" to me
three times. That is incorrect and devious, since i have not tried to
"persuade" anyone, but only to enlighten them so that they may make up
their own mind -- or present them with scriptural facts and events if they
make the mistake of trying to cross me on the subject.
Since you evaded my questions, i see no reason to answer yours.
cheers now.............
abelard
wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:42:37 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 13:38:42 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:26:25 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>>
>>>>>Please point out to me in which muslime fuck country "moderate" pislam
>>>>>is practiced.
>>>>
>>>>britain...or anywhere else, until the get real power
>>
>>>Which goes back to your Erdogan quote on Democracy.............
>>
>>all religions tend to be that way out...
>>you can see it in the dissenters when they got established in the usa
>>you can see it with socialism when they attain serious power...
>All religions?
'all' is a strange number!
abelard
wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:14:53 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:01:52 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 07:48:39 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>>
>>>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>>thing".
>>
>>>"As if" you could separate them.
>>
>>you want him to declare a million or two as enemies....
>>at this point?
>>
>>regards
>
>Did I say that?
>
>I will ask you if you think the best course is to remain forever on
>defense.
no, i think it's time to go on the attack...
every islamic interviewed on the subject should
be made to define their position relative to the alleged
koranic teaching...
anyone who does not, could be locked out of the media and politics...
DVH
If you were a little more self-confident intellectually, you wouldn't feel
so threatened by mere questions.
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 14:21:47 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:14:53 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:01:52 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 07:48:39 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>>>
>>>>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>>>thing".
>>>
>>>>"As if" you could separate them.
>>>
>>>you want him to declare a million or two as enemies....
>>>at this point?
>>>
>>>regards
>>
>>Did I say that?
>>
>>I will ask you if you think the best course is to remain forever on
>>defense.
>
>no, i think it's time to go on the attack...
>
>every islamic interviewed on the subject should
> be made to define their position relative to the alleged
> koranic teaching...
>
>anyone who does not, could be locked out of the media and politics...
>
>regards
" alleged koranic teaching..." ??
Do you think that there is a question as to whether the koran is real or
not? Or is there a question as to whether it does say what it does?
I think it was Churchill who said that when a man says he is going to kill
you it is best to take him seriously.
FACE
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 14:26:11 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:42:37 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 13:38:42 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:26:25 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>>>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>Please point out to me in which muslime fuck country "moderate" pislam
>>>>>>is practiced.
>>>>>
>>>>>britain...or anywhere else, until the get real power
>>>
>>>>Which goes back to your Erdogan quote on Democracy.............
>>>
>>>all religions tend to be that way out...
>>>you can see it in the dissenters when they got established in the usa
>>>you can see it with socialism when they attain serious power...
>
>>All religions?
>
>'all' is a strange number!
>
>regards
:-) I was hoping to hear about the Buddhist Empire.
FACE
<d...@vhvhvhvh.com>, wrote
You flatter yourself to think that I feel threatened.
abelard
wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 20:38:39 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 14:26:11 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:42:37 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 13:38:42 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:26:25 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>>>>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Please point out to me in which muslime fuck country "moderate" pislam
>>>>>>>is practiced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>britain...or anywhere else, until the get real power
>>>>
>>>>>Which goes back to your Erdogan quote on Democracy.............
>>>>
>>>>all religions tend to be that way out...
>>>>you can see it in the dissenters when they got established in the usa
>>>>you can see it with socialism when they attain serious power...
>>
>>>All religions?
>>
>>'all' is a strange number!
> :-) I was hoping to hear about the Buddhist Empire.
will han china do?
abelard
wrote:
>" alleged koranic teaching..." ??
>
>Do you think that there is a question as to whether the koran is real or
>not? Or is there a question as to whether it does say what it does?
eye is in the beholding beauty...apparently...
i'm told that 'kill all infidels' actually means 'submit to the
religion of piece'...
when i use a word, said humpty....
>I think it was Churchill who said that when a man says he is going to kill
>you it is best to take him seriously.
that's why i think that question should be put to
and relevant interviewee...
at the very least they could be pressured to lie
in public...
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
I see that Buddhism first entered China during the Eastern Han and was
first mentioned in 65 BC................
FACE
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
There is nothing I know of that actually says "kill all infidels" but
there is plenty I know of that says to fight them until they are
subjugated and humiliated. I saw an ex-muslim arab (Kameel Saleem, though
I don't expect you to know him) tell either Choudary and Bakri that the
"fight them" was a transliteration and in the original arabic it could not
be taken to mean anything other than deadly warfare.
Neither Choudary not Bakri refuted him. (it was said to one, the other
was in the same debate though.)
I understand your "when i use a word, said humpty...." reference, but
these things have been expounded upon by islamic scholars in what is known
as "tafseer". Those scholars probably have a much better idea of what the
words mean than the taqiyya spouting muslim councillor or neighbour(either
of whom possibly is in earnest, in which case, unless they recant before a
sharia court within a specified time after accusation, they are apostate).
As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
believe the part you want to believe........
FACE
abelard
wrote:
>As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
>believe the part you want to believe........
i get to call myself whatever i wish...
if i decide to call myself a muselman i get to believe what
ever i choose....
unless some other muselman says i have to believe something else?
i'm a deprived victim....i only get to believe reality...
i demand compensation...
DVH
"abelard" <abel...@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:1rgrk61tci3d7r3hh...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:59:26 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
>>believe the part you want to believe........
>
> i get to call myself whatever i wish...
> if i decide to call myself a muselman i get to believe what
> ever i choose....
>
> unless some other muselman says i have to believe something else?
>
> i'm a deprived victim....i only get to believe reality...
> i demand compensation...
That *is* compensation.
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:59:26 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
>>believe the part you want to believe........
>
>i get to call myself whatever i wish...
>if i decide to call myself a muselman i get to believe what
> ever i choose....
>
****
>unless some other muselman says i have to believe something else?
****
There's the rub......
abelard
wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 22:44:40 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:59:26 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
>>>believe the part you want to believe........
>>
>>i get to call myself whatever i wish...
>>if i decide to call myself a muselman i get to believe what
>> ever i choose....
>****
>>unless some other muselman says i have to believe something else?
>****
>
>There's the rub......
i was rather hoping to get a jot better insight to the nature
of 'the rub'
no-one knows what another person believes...
so just why the irrational fuss?
regards
>>i'm a deprived victim....i only get to believe reality...
>> i demand compensation...
>>
>>regards
--
abelard
i was rather hoping for some filthy gold on account...or some such
regn.pickford
>>> political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the
>>> same thing".
>>>
>>
>> "As if" you could separate them.
>
> one and the same, and that there is no moderate islam, may I ask what
> action you would like your persuadees to take once persuaded?
Require a user pays anti terrorism levy from Mosques, Islamic prayer
rooms and Islamic comunity centres to pay for the ongoing costs of
the extra security we are all now currently paying for with extra costs
with just about everything we purchase because we have Moslems
living in our communities.
Allow adversely affected people to seek assistance from these levies
as well and have no mitigating conditions on these levies once inplace.
The billions and billions and billions of dollars of expense we are paying
for
in extra security can be shared per head of Islamic visiltors praying at
Mosques,Prayer rooms and Islamic centres.
I would imagine the average Moslem household for their household prayer
room might have to pay $20 000 +. per week.
My Christian beliefs would hope this pogrom might be implemented over
say, 24 months with the user pays levy being slowly but regularly raised
till
we collectively no longer pay for this huge burden of entertaining Islam
in a Christian Nation.
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 17:09:39 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 22:44:40 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:59:26 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
>>>>believe the part you want to believe........
>>>
>>>i get to call myself whatever i wish...
>>>if i decide to call myself a muselman i get to believe what
>>> ever i choose....
>
>>****
>>>unless some other muselman says i have to believe something else?
>>****
>>
>>There's the rub......
>
>i was rather hoping to get a jot better insight to the nature
> of 'the rub'
>
>no-one knows what another person believes...
>
>so just why the irrational fuss?
To what irrational fuss do you refer?
abelard
wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 23:19:35 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 17:09:39 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 22:44:40 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>>><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:59:26 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>As I may have said before, islam is not like the CoE -- you don't get to
>>>>>believe the part you want to believe........
>>>>
>>>>i get to call myself whatever i wish...
>>>>if i decide to call myself a muselman i get to believe what
>>>> ever i choose....
>>
>>>****
>>>>unless some other muselman says i have to believe something else?
>>>****
>>>
>>>There's the rub......
>>
>>i was rather hoping to get a jot better insight to the nature
>> of 'the rub'
>>
>>no-one knows what another person believes...
>>
>>so just why the irrational fuss?
>
>To what irrational fuss do you refer?
as people don't know what other people are thinking...
it makes little sanity that people kill one another over
such vaguenesses...
considering...
so much of this stuff involves such esoteric analysis...
most people find it very hard to know what these words mean...
let alone when they are overloaded with interpretations piled
on interpretations upon interpretations...
seems to me that much of the killing is heavy irrationality
used to exploit idiots by those seeking power....
iyswim
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
Look up "tafseer" also spelled "tafsir"
rank and file believers are forbidden to interpret the koran.
I think I gave a verse for that, but one is 3:151
What there are is multiple translations, not interpretations.
>
>seems to me that much of the killing is heavy irrationality
> used to exploit idiots by those seeking power....
>
>iyswim
What does "iyswim" mean?
>
>
>regards
BTW, just tell me whether you are serious.
FACE
<AFaceIn...@today.net>, wrote
>rank and file believers are forbidden to interpret the koran.
>I think I gave a verse for that, but one is 3:151
Not 3:151 that's shirk, the verse to not question the revealed koran is
5:101.
abelard
wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 01:44:51 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:28:42 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>>To what irrational fuss do you refer?
>>
>>as people don't know what other people are thinking...
>>
>>it makes little sanity that people kill one another over
>> such vaguenesses...
>>considering...
>>
>>so much of this stuff involves such esoteric analysis...
>>most people find it very hard to know what these words mean...
>> let alone when they are overloaded with interpretations piled
>> on interpretations upon interpretations...
>
>Look up "tafseer" also spelled "tafsir"
>rank and file believers are forbidden to interpret the koran.
how do you stop being 'rank and file'?
a priesthood who shall be obeyed....
that conflicts with a direct relationship with god....
reason is central to (theologially serious) christianity...
it used to be part of early islam
>I think I gave a verse for that, but one is 3:151
>What there are is multiple translations, not interpretations.
there's no way i believe that!
different translations mean varying interpretations...
i think they have some crap about understanding can only be
adequate in arabic...which is of course absolute nonsense...
of course english is a more advanced language...and should be able
to subsume any arabic...
and difficulties will certainly be susceptible to careful analysis...
i haven't gotten into any actual translation attempt yet...
if you wish to start with an example, i'm getting to a place
that i can probably discuss it with you in a meaningful
manner
>>seems to me that much of the killing is heavy irrationality
>> used to exploit idiots by those seeking power....
>>
>>iyswim
>
>What does "iyswim" mean?
if you see whadimean :-)
>>regards
>
>BTW, just tell me whether you are serious.
oh yes, i'm serious...and increasingly engaged
abelard
wrote:
please quote the actual words if you want me to engage/respond
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:02:17 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 20:46:58 -0500, in alt.politics.immigration, FACE
>><AFaceIn...@today.net>, wrote
>>
>>>rank and file believers are forbidden to interpret the koran.
>>>I think I gave a verse for that, but one is 3:151
>>
>>Not 3:151 that's shirk, the verse to not question the revealed koran is
>>5:101.
>
>please quote the actual words if you want me to engage/respond
>
>regards
Thank you. You just answered the final question that I had put in the form
of a statement
FACE
abelard
wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 03:04:39 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
><abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:02:17 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 20:46:58 -0500, in alt.politics.immigration, FACE
>>><AFaceIn...@today.net>, wrote
>>>
>>>>rank and file believers are forbidden to interpret the koran.
>>>>I think I gave a verse for that, but one is 3:151
>>>
>>>Not 3:151 that's shirk, the verse to not question the revealed koran is
>>>5:101.
>>
>>please quote the actual words if you want me to engage/respond
>Thank you. You just answered the final question that I had put in the form
>of a statement
i can't parse that...
Dug
news:KFg3p.92939$lM.7...@newsfe14.ams2...
>
> "Dug" <andx...@gggmail.com> wrote in message
> news:iik4a5$ntt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "DVH" <d...@vhvhvhvh.com> wrote in message
>> news:Ecg3p.92694$lM.7...@newsfe14.ams2...
>>>
>>> "FACE" <AFaceIn...@today.net> wrote in message
>>> news:7tsqk61oktnrpbimn...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>>>thing".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "As if" you could separate them.
>>>
>>> Since it appears to be your mission to persuade people that they are one
>>> and the same, and that there is no moderate islam, may I ask what action
>>> you would like your persuadees to take once persuaded?
>>
>> is practiced.
>
>
> Every country is moderate until it lynches some Jews or Christians or
> blows up the wrong brand of mosque.
>
> But where are you going with your question...
Which muslime countries practice "moderate" pislam fool.
Dug
> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:01:52 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 07:48:39 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>
>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>thing".
>
>>"As if" you could separate them.
>
> at this point?
>
The actions of muslimes in muslime states speak volumes
about their agenda and ideology -- despite their lies to
the contrary. YOU would be enemy in their states as your
mild criticism of their faith and actions would result in your
incaceration or death.
abelard
wrote:
>"abelard" <abel...@abelard.org> wrote in message
>news:9q4rk6pt5nm1jgftt...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:01:52 -0500, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 07:48:39 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>>
>>>>Mr Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the
>>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
>>>>thing".
>>
>>>"As if" you could separate them.
>>
>> you want him to declare a million or two as enemies....
>> at this point?
>>
>
>The actions of muslimes in muslime states speak volumes
>about their agenda and ideology -- despite their lies to
>the contrary. YOU would be enemy in their states as your
>mild criticism of their faith and actions would result in your
>incaceration or death.
i'm not a million miles away from that base position...
but...
1)there are lapsed catholics who essentially don't much care...
i get the impression that the masses of islam are not very
distant from that position...
just shut, don't get involved...get on with their own lives
2)my questions are more angled towards political questions...
given the facts, what do we do in practical terms...
...this depends heavily of just what you believe the real
facts on the ground to be...*not* on what the ravers and
power seekers screech about...
FACE
<abel...@abelard.org>, wrote
Thank you. I had not seen it before.
>
>>>regards
>>
>>BTW, just tell me whether you are serious.
>
>oh yes, i'm serious...and increasingly engaged
That's good to know.
The reason that i often give scriptural references is that instead of
appearing to *tell* people what to believe, I much prefer that they look
up the verse itself and make their own decision. I am on no crusade or
mission to get people to believe as I believe. If I said that I feel that
an umm al-kitab as the lawh al-mahfuz is ridiculous, I would probably
explain that, rather than point to 85:21 & 22. (It is ridiculous to
believe that there is a mother book as a guarded tablet on a table in
allah's brothel that is "uncreated". The koran was sliced and diced,
reordered, with pieces lost and a few added up to the third caliph in the
early eighth century.)
I thought that you would pull the root of one of the two URLs I gave you
for the 10+ translations of each of two verses and be using it. Perhaps I
thought wrong. I just call it YAQUB -- as it calls itself -- and use it a
lot now. http://quranbrowser.com/
On your question about getting above "rank and file" it varies by sect
involved. For sunni's, with the dissolution of the caliphates with the
Ottoman empire, there is little above imam, which is by acclamation, and
then there are the sheikhs which appears to be an honorific title. For
shias, by study and religious training they go through mullah to
ayatollah. Apparently the shia imams are also by acclamation. There are
many other sects as well as orders but I don't know how they pick their
leaders.
I am unsure what you mean by "reasoning" in early islam. If by early you
mean in Big Mo's time, there was none. There was a brief period about the
11th century where they did that but it was soon stopped as unislamic. I
read that Wahhib, the founder of Wahhibism, said anything written about
islam after 1000 AD (he probably put it by the islamic calendar) was
heresy. I see a connection.
My arabic script reading is limited to the translation by "google
translate". I don't even bother with the transliterations.
After having looked seriously into islam I believe that islam is a fake
religion with a fake god that was no more than mo's sockpuppet. He wrote
a lot of "situational scripture".
FACE
>
>regards
Dug
Your POV is basically that muslimes are ignorant of their
own theology and thus somehow "good" people. I've
heard that kinda crap too many times already.
The antisemitic vomit in the holey koran isn't obtuse and
it isn't rare.
BTW, how do you explain the fact that all muslime states
persecute people of other faiths? Don't most muslimes live
in muslime states?
Eunometic
> "FACE" <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote in message
>
> news:7tsqk61oktnrpbimn...@4ax.com...
>
>
> Since it appears to be your mission to persuade people that they are one and
> the same, and that there is no moderate islam, may I ask what action you
> would like your persuadees to take once persuaded?
Chop of all the extremists and the new ones will appear. It's
intrinisic to the religion. Just read a Koran.
Eunometic
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 03:03:51 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 20:46:58 -0500, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 01:44:51 +0100, in alt.politics.immigration, abelard
>
> >>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:28:42 -0500, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
When the Koran is subjected to the same textual analysis that the
Bible, Torah is the reality that it was derived from other works of
literature is quite apparent.
The reference to 72 virgins as reward in paradise to martyrs (ie
suckers that died) is actualy a poor tranlated derviative of a syric
christian poem.
Note the work of Christoph Luxenberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Luxenberg
Eunometic
> "FACE" <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:57:52 -0000, in alt.politics.immigration, "DVH"
> > <d...@vhvhvhvh.com>, wrote
> >>>>political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same
> >>>>thing".
>
> >>> "As if" you could separate them.
>
> >>and
> >>the same, and that there is no moderate islam, may I ask what action you
> >>would like your persuadees to take once persuaded?
>
> > you ask what would i like, I'd like to see the islamic takeover of the
> > West prevented.
>
> How? By means of law, for example?
>
> Would you ban the practice of islam?
Would have been better not to have the nutter races that practice it
into western countries in the first place.
Most westerrn 'converts' to Islam were eccentrics that disappeared of
their own accord.
It is key to do the following: ban the possibillity of Sharia, ban
heavy Islamic dress. Nutter immigrants should know this before they
immigrate. Ban Ostentatious Mosques, Ban donations of funds sourced
from Islamic countries that do not allow practice of other religions.
DVH
Speak English, cretin.
DVH
"regn.pickford" <re...@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
news:4d4dd94f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
That looks to me like accepting the behaviour and imposing a sin tax, as if
terrorism is smoking.
Meanwhile would the Saudis cough up the tax? Probably, unless you made it so
high the pips started squeaking.
DVH
"Eunometic" <euno...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4b74c05d-4bc3-44f1...@k17g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
OK. The last one would have most effect, in my view. If you could enforce
it.
I think de facto segregated schooling is also harmful.
William Black
Can you define 'heavy Islamic dress' please.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.
abelard
wrote:
>Your POV is basically that muslimes are ignorant of their
>own theology
certainly...
> and thus somehow "good" people.
in no manner does that follow....or not follow
> I've
>heard that kinda crap too many times already.
you'd be better trying to understand my position...than
making up a position for me...and then relating to
your own imagination
>The antisemitic vomit in the holey koran isn't obtuse and
>it isn't rare.
that seems to be the case...and it is certainly screeched by the
common political loons...
>BTW, how do you explain the fact that all muslime states
>persecute people of other faiths? Don't most muslimes live
>in muslime states?
they also persecute 'their own'
muslim states appear to be mostly backward and/or failed
states...
by their fruits...
muslim states also appear to be (very) disproportionately
involved in violence...
likewise most socialist states...
but then look at the dopes that voted for hitler...or bliar...
or obama...
you have to be foolish to be a socialist...much of religion feeds
on poverty and superstition...
islam certainly feeds off poverty and superstition
the mixture becomes more poisonous, especially for advanced
societies..when the backward get hold of winchesters....let
alone a-bombs...
now i return to my bottom line...what to do about it....
FACE
Black <black...@gmail.com>, wrote
That would be as opposed to light islamic dress. Son, you get more
ridiculous every time you pipe up.............
FACE
Eunometic <euno...@yahoo.com.au>, wrote
He also lifted a lot of material from the taurant (torah) such as the most
quoted 5:32 (but you never hear a muslim quote the next 3 verses). Also he
lifted some stuff from the Injeel (Gospel).
The whole koran is a mishmash, with specific horrid additions.
Most of what he later wrote in Medina though his sockpuppet, allah,
guarantees his own emolument and satisfactions. For emolument, see
8:41. For his pride see 33:21. For his personal satisfaction, like
marrying his daughter-in-law, Zainab, see 33:50 through 53. That last is
called "situational scripture" -- and note that "allah" restricts it as a
privilege of the prophet, only.
FACE
FACE
<andx...@gggmail.com>, wrote
>Your POV is basically that muslimes are ignorant of their
>own theology and thus somehow "good" people. I've
>heard that kinda crap too many times already.
I run into the same wall of ignorance of their own religion with a lot of
hard-rock Christians. People engage in tautologies -- circular
reasonings.
FACE
regn.pickford
Islamic community Prayers caused many to leave and we made
great advances towards encouraging all Moslems to move to Moslem
countries.
> Meanwhile would the Saudis cough up the tax? Probably, unless you
> made it so high the pips started squeaking.
I doubt the Saudis would cough it up ... Like illegal Asylum Shoppers,
they would switch support to targetting softer countries for Islamic
immigration.
I would expect the Moslem population to go into freefall as they sold up
and moved to Moslem countries to live like shieks, cashed up with their
Australian Dollars or move to these softer targets for Islamic immigration
with Saidi cash as a sweetner
Muslims are required by the laws of their faith to leave places where
they cannot pray.
They can'r Pray in halls, Mosques or homes seized by the Sherrifs Office. ]
It's a much better option than waiting for tolerance overload and mob rule
to sort it.
regn.pickford
I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
death shrouds for the men.
It proudly proclaims the wearer will not even `change their shoes `
in any effort to assimiliate with their new society.
regn.pickford
In Pakistan, Moslems are treating as a hero, the security guard
who did what?
Any Christians butcher someone who supported the relaxation
of blasphemy laws in recent centuries? Let alone make him
a national hero ...
> 2)my questions are more angled towards political questions...
> given the facts, what do we do in practical terms...
> ...this depends heavily of just what you believe the real
> facts on the ground to be...*not* on what the ravers and
> power seekers screech about...
The facts are that from day to day, the small incremental changes
occuring in terminal cancers are absolutely harmless.
When seen in the `big' picture timeline, these harmless little changes
are of course, seen very differently.
abelard
sounds like the old taxes imposed on papists in the uk
regards
Dug
But Yeshua wasn't a psychopathic child molestor and mass murderer.
William Black
You know, you're a complete prat.
Recently US security officials pulled the Indian ambassador, complete
with diplomatic passport, out of the line at an airport for special
treatment because she was wearing 'Islamic dress'.
She was wearing a sari!
Ignorance on that scale needs a special sort of perverse insularity only
found in the USA...
William Black
'Death shrouds'.
I think you need some professional medical help.
FACE
Black <black...@gmail.com>, wrote
Any fool would know that the burka and niqab was being referred to. But
then, you are even less than a fool in these matters.........
FACE
<andx...@gggmail.com>, wrote
>"FACE" <AFaceIn...@today.net> wrote in message
>news:tbbtk61029o3no398...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:52:54 -0800, in alt.politics.immigration, "Dug"
>> <andx...@gggmail.com>, wrote
>>
>>>Your POV is basically that muslimes are ignorant of their
>>>own theology and thus somehow "good" people. I've
>>>heard that kinda crap too many times already.
>>
>>
>> I run into the same wall of ignorance of their own religion with a lot of
>> hard-rock Christians. People engage in tautologies -- circular
>> reasonings.
>>
>> FACE
>>
>
>But Yeshua wasn't a psychopathic child molestor and mass murderer.
>
Yes, I know. There were not many religious "prophets" who were, and none
that would rise to the level of ongoing depravity as big mo. I was
listening to a recount of ahadith last night concerning big mo's return to
mecca with 10,000 warriors under the black flags of jihad. Those flags
had one word on them -- "punishment". When he had taken the city of
mecca, one of his captains reported to him that <some arabic name> was
clinging to the curtains of the kaaba. Mo's command: "Kill him".
Dug
An islamofascist sympathizer/apologist calling me "cretin"?
It's not an insult, it's praise.
Dug
William is king of the trivial objection. Of course, when you're defending
islamofascism you've gotta take any opening you can get.
William Black
Never seen a 'Bombay burqa' have you.
Sheer silk, encrusted with jewelled and embroidery, and you can see
every curve and every movement.
It can be a very revealing garment...
Mind you, you'd be banning black cocktail dresses if you could...
FACE
Black <black...@gmail.com>, wrote
I see it took you about 3 messages to get round to what you consider your
"vast knowledge" of all things islam which is based on a few small areas.
You are an inductive reasoning idiot.
BTW, dumbass, that governor in Pakistan was murdered for islam by a member
of a sub-branch of the sufi.
No doubt I will now hear of your grand worldliness..............
regn.pickford
They are called thobes.
the westernised version
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0YTZJpJ8Jp8/S_t3IN1hh5I/AAAAAAAAF6U/a0YcREkWG9s/s1600/KKK.jpg
http://www.angryblacklady.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/kkk-robe.jpg
Now honestly, would you buy a used car from this man
or eat a meal from his restaurant
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/ahmedrafiki.jpg
Of cause not... he's never done a days work in his life... It's why he finds
western welfare so attractive.
> I think you need some professional medical help.
And that's because _your_ professional medical help has
been so ... Helpfull ?
I'll pass ... you sig reeks of unresolved .. `issues` ...
William Black
> William Black wrote:
>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>
>>
>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>
>
> They are called thobes.
>
> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
> I'll pass ... you sig reeks of unresolved .. `issues` ...
That's because you have problems.
Dug
news:iirnlf$hs0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 02/08/2011 12:58 AM, regn.pickford wrote:
>> William Black wrote:
>
>>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>>
>>
>> They are called thobes.
>>
>> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
>
> That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
>
99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
William Black
> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:iirnlf$hs0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 02/08/2011 12:58 AM, regn.pickford wrote:
>>> William Black wrote:
>>
>>>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They are called thobes.
>>>
>>> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
>>
>> That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
>>
>
> 99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
>
> Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
>
But 99% of Muslims are not Arabs...
regn.pickford
> On 02/11/2011 09:42 PM, Dug wrote:
>> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:iirnlf$hs0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 02/08/2011 12:58 AM, regn.pickford wrote:
>>>> William Black wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>>>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They are called thobes.
>>>>
>>>> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
>>>
>>> That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
>>>
>>
>> 99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
>>
>> Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
>>
>
> But 99% of Muslims are not Arabs...
If you read the site, the thobe meets requirements
for `proper` Muslim dress for men. It is it's selling point.
Dug
> On 02/11/2011 09:42 PM, Dug wrote:
>> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:iirnlf$hs0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 02/08/2011 12:58 AM, regn.pickford wrote:
>>>> William Black wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>>>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They are called thobes.
>>>>
>>>> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
>>>
>>> That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
>>>
>>
>> 99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
>>
>> Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
>>
>
> But 99% of Muslims are not Arabs...
>
And islam isn't called Arab imperialism for nothing
either.
William Black
> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ij3urs$86q$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 02/11/2011 09:42 PM, Dug wrote:
>>> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iirnlf$hs0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 02/08/2011 12:58 AM, regn.pickford wrote:
>>>>> William Black wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>>>>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They are called thobes.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
>>>>
>>>> That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
>>>
>>> Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
>>>
>>
>> But 99% of Muslims are not Arabs...
>>
>
> And islam isn't called Arab imperialism for nothing
> either.
Arabs may be the progenitors of the religion but except for the rather
nasty missionary work by Saudi Wahhabi preachers they have little to do
with the running of non-Arab Muslim states these days.
Dug
> On 02/13/2011 12:26 AM, Dug wrote:
>> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ij3urs$86q$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 02/11/2011 09:42 PM, Dug wrote:
>>>> "William Black"<black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:iirnlf$hs0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> On 02/08/2011 12:58 AM, regn.pickford wrote:
>>>>>> William Black wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would call it tents and `brown bag` scarves for the women and
>>>>>>>> death shrouds for the men.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Death shrouds'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are called thobes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://madandloud.com/?p=181
>>>>>
>>>>> That's typically an item of Arab dress rather than a Muslim garment.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
>>>>
>>>> Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
>>>>
>>>
>>> But 99% of Muslims are not Arabs...
>>>
>>
>> And islam isn't called Arab imperialism for nothing
>> either.
>
> Arabs may be the progenitors of the religion but except for the rather
> nasty missionary work by Saudi Wahhabi preachers they have little to do
> with the running of non-Arab Muslim states these days.
>
But maybe not in non-muslime states. Saudi Barbaria finances the majority
of mosques being built in the US today and supplies the majority of imams
to staff them. I believe they also fund the majority of madrassas found in
poorer islamic states and states to be islamic.
Saracene
>
> 99.9% of Arabs are of what religious persuasion again?
>
> Hindu? Buddhist? Christian? Jewish? Wiccan? Mormon?
>
> >> I'll pass ... you sig reeks of unresolved .. `issues` ...
>
> > That's because you have problems.
>
> > --
> > William Black
>
> > "Any number under six"
>
> > The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
> > Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single
> > handed with a quarterstaff.
>
>
Perhaps the most common Arab characteristic is adherence to the
Islamic faith. Muslim Arabs comprize about 93 percent of the Arab
population and belong to several different sects including Shia (Ithna
Ashari and Ismaili), Alawi, Zaidi, and Sunni, which is the largest.
The other 7 percent of Arabs are largely Christian or Druze.
Read more: http://www.everyculture.com/Africa-Middle-East/Arabs-Religion.html#ixzz1Drx4XTlO
FACE
<andx...@gggmail.com>, wrote
For the next time willy spews out his idyllic view of the muslims in
India, I received this email last night:
~~~~
Moinak Sengupta February 12 at 11:15pm
we have a libtard government which is quite muslim appeasing like the us
democrats...but the ordinary people here hates muslims and the main
opposition party is very much right winged...indians never grew up
watching The Three Stooges but i fail to understand the reason behind
muslims still living in india..:)
~~~~
Which only goes to show that there is another point of view.
FACE
William Black
And what's their input into the government?
William Black
> Moinak Sengupta February 12 at 11:15pm
> we have a libtard government which is quite muslim appeasing like the us
> democrats...but the ordinary people here hates muslims and the main
> opposition party is very much right winged...indians never grew up
> watching The Three Stooges but i fail to understand the reason behind
> muslims still living in india..:)
Now you get to look up 'Hindutva'.
Dug
The same "input" non-muslimes have into the governments of:
i. Iranistan
ii. Iraqistan
iii. Pigistan
iv. Bangladesh
v. Egypistan
vi. Yemen
vii. Indonesia
viii. Malaysia
ix. Libya
Dug
Yeah try wearing that in any muslime nation. Even if you might
look pretty cute in it.
William Black
Lack of content noted...