Ratner: garnering sympathy with pictures is beyond the pale
coaste...@yahoo.com
photographs:
drahcir
wrote:
> Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> photographs:
>
> http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
exterminated not long after the photos were taken. Please ask him
whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
exterminated. Thanks.
Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
Honest truth
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm
> Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> photographs:
>
> http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
--
嚙踝蕭Of all the extreme fanaticism which plays havoc in man嚙踝蕭s nature, there is
not one as irrational as anti-Semitism. 嚙皺 If the Jews are rich [these
fanatics] are victims of theft. If they are poor, they are victims of
ridicule. If they take sides in a war, it is because they wish to take
advantage from the spilling of non-Jewish blood. If they espouse peace, it
is because they are scared by their natures or traitors. If the Jew dwells
in a foreign land he is persecuted and expelled. If he wishes to return to
his own land, he is prevented from doing so.嚙踝蕭
Lloyd George
coaste...@yahoo.com
You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
The fascist behavior of the IDF is obvious. I'm glad you enjoyed the
parallels to the Nazis.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > photographs:
>
> > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > exterminated not long after the photos were taken. Please ask him
> > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
> > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > exterminated. Thanks.
>
> > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
> > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
>
> You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H. You're
mumbling. Are you hereby stating that the "killing pace" by the IDF of
arabs in the "occupied" territories is similar to that of the nazis of
Jews? YES OR NO?
> The fascist behavior of the IDF is obvious.
More mumble. Please try to speak clearly. Even though it's "obvious",
for the edification of the group, will you please answer the above
question posed to you in a clear and concise way?
I'm glad you enjoyed the
> parallels to the Nazis.
For those who may not understand HHWbabble, the above nonsense,
designed only to disguise the fact that he has no response to my
point, means "duh, drahcir got me again".
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > photographs:
>
> > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > > exterminated not long after the photos were taken.
Indeed, and many on the right were exterminated not long before the
pictures were taken.
Please ask him
> > > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
> > > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > > exterminated. Thanks.
Write him a brotherly, fraternal letter, Richard. He may answer you.
There is a contact page at his web site.
>
> > > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
> > > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
>
> > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H.
Everyone else does. Why not you? Lebanon, Gaza. You killed thousands.
You "speeded" things up. You'll never have to deal with those dead
again.
You're
> mumbling. Are you hereby stating that the "killing pace" by the IDF of
> arabs in the "occupied" territories is similar to that of the nazis of
> Jews? YES OR NO?
What you're "doing" in the occupied territories is similar to what the
Nazis did in their occupied territories. You're killing innocent,
helpless people. You're justifying it with a violent political
ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing. End the occupation
with its huge open air concentration camps. Then you will be on the
path to becoming less Naziesque. Surely you want that, don't you?
What's this pace business? You're speeding it up, obviously. Rest
assured, you can be Nazis without equaling the original Nazi's output.
Maybe you're just little Nazis. Big frogs in a little Middle Eastern
pool. Settle for that?
> > The fascist behavior of the IDF is obvious.
>
> More mumble. Please try to speak clearly. Even though it's "obvious",
> for the edification of the group, will you please answer the above
> question posed to you in a clear and concise way?
>
> Your question has been answered. I'm glad you enjoyed the parallels to the Nazis.
>
> For those who may not understand HHWbabble, the above nonsense,
> designed only to disguise the fact that he has no response to my
> point, means "duh, drahcir got me again".
Oh, you made a point? Where was that?
mose
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6657600254881054584&hl=en
DONT HAVE TO TAKE TED'S WORD
LOOK ONE UP YOURSELF
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/talmud.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCSSLPsiWs
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b9722834-f203-49be...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> photographs:
>
> http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
OH YOU WANT TO BRING UP BS CLAIMS , NO GASSING EXCEPT THE GAS BLOWING FROM
JEWS.FOR REPARATIONS
YOU ARE AN OCCUPYING FORCE OF UNARMED CIVILIANS WHO SHOULD ACCORDING TO YOU
KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRUEL AND INHUMANE.
SO YOU WERE LIED TO AND USED AS BUNNIES BY YOUR BELOVED ZIONISTS.
The real story
http://judicial-inc.biz/Kristallnacht.htm
Lest you think there must be some truth to the alleged Treblinka holocaust
NAFCASH TM is offering a $250,000.00 REWARD
For locating JUST ONE of the alleged "HUGE MASS GRAVES" of Treblinka
NAFCASH TM presents
THE TREBLINKA CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM
You must scientifically - forensically prove the grave's EXACT location,
its EXACT dimensions and its EXACT volumetric density.
The cremated remains must total AT LEAST one percent of the alleged mass
murder.
JUST ONE MASS GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!
CHECK THE WHOLE HOLOHOAXING BUNCH.
http://images.google.co.id/images?hl=id&um=1&sa=1&q=%2251+documents
%22&btnG=Telusuri+gambar&aq=f&oq=&start=0
The Alternative Tour of Auschwitz: An Independent Investigation of the
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/snuffporn.htm
Jewish officials in a major Italian news agency tried to cover the story
up, but were circumvented by Italian news reporters, who broadcast scenes
from the films live at prime time on Italian television to more than 11
million Italian viewers. Jewish officials then fired the executives
responsible, claiming they were spreading "blood libel."
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A4.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/articles/HowWarsBegin.html
http://www.anti-rev.org/textes/VidalNaquet92a/part-6.html
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013
http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm
Mans wife killed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
Family Killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelsTortureBan.html
teens killed while swimming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYgioaKRu4&feature=channel
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm
ZIONISTS
mose
DONT HAVE TO TAKE TED'S WORD
LOOK ONE UP YOURSELF
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/talmud.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCSSLPsiWs
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6261cf3-a28e-438b...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > photographs:
>
> > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
NAFCASH TM presents
http://images.google.co.id/images?hl=id&um=1&sa=1&q=%2251+documents
%22&btnG=Telusuri+gambar&aq=f&oq=&start=0
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/snuffporn.htm
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013
http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm
Mans wife killed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
Family Killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelsTortureBan.html
teens killed while swimming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYgioaKRu4&feature=channel
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm
ZIONISTS
>
mose
DONT HAVE TO TAKE TED'S WORD
LOOK ONE UP YOURSELF
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/talmud.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCSSLPsiWs
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f13106cb-abd6-4226...@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > photographs:
>
> >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
OH YOU WANT TO BRING UP BS CLAIMS , NO GASSING EXCEPT THE GAS BLOWING FROM
NAFCASH TM presents
http://images.google.co.id/images?hl=id&um=1&sa=1&q=%2251+documents
%22&btnG=Telusuri+gambar&aq=f&oq=&start=0
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/snuffporn.htm
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013
http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm
Mans wife killed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
Family Killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelsTortureBan.html
teens killed while swimming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYgioaKRu4&feature=channel
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm
ZIONISTS
>
mose
DONT HAVE TO TAKE TED'S WORD
LOOK ONE UP YOURSELF
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/talmud.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCSSLPsiWs
"Honest truth" <Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
news:1b9zvh4gyg12x.6...@40tude.net...
> icono...@yahoo.com idiot, this picture will explain why
>
> http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/lynch2a.htm
BS SITE??
>
>> Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
>> photographs:
>>
>> http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
>
> --
> ��Of all the extreme fanaticism which plays havoc in man��s nature, there
> is
> not one as irrational as anti-Semitism.
RUBBISH OL GEORGE DID NOT KNOW YOU WERE A BUNCH COMMITED TO LYING, CHEATING,
AND KILLING NON JEWS BY COMMAND OF YOUR RALMUD.
NAFCASH TM presents
http://images.google.co.id/images?hl=id&um=1&sa=1&q=%2251+documents
%22&btnG=Telusuri+gambar&aq=f&oq=&start=0
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/snuffporn.htm
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013
http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm
Mans wife killed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
Family Killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelsTortureBan.html
teens killed while swimming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYgioaKRu4&feature=channel
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm
ZIONISTS
�K If the Jews are rich [these
> fanatics] are victims of theft. If they are poor, they are victims of
> ridicule. If they take sides in a war, it is because they wish to take
> advantage from the spilling of non-Jewish blood. If they espouse peace, it
> is because they are scared by their natures or traitors. If the Jew dwells
> in a foreign land he is persecuted and expelled. If he wishes to return to
> his own land, he is prevented from doing so.��
>
> Lloyd George
mose
DONT HAVE TO TAKE TED'S WORD
LOOK ONE UP YOURSELF
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/talmud.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCSSLPsiWs
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b020a7d-0eef-488e...@u8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 29, 12:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > photographs:
>
> > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
OH YOU WANT TO BRING UP BS CLAIMS , NO GASSING EXCEPT THE GAS BLOWING FROM
NAFCASH TM presents
http://images.google.co.id/images?hl=id&um=1&sa=1&q=%2251+documents
%22&btnG=Telusuri+gambar&aq=f&oq=&start=0
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/snuffporn.htm
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013
http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm
Mans wife killed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
Family Killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_CRzdlA5To&feature=channel
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelsTortureBan.html
teens killed while swimming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYgioaKRu4&feature=channel
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/009_jam.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm
ZIONISTS
>
Fish Supper
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b020a7d-0eef-488e...@u8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
You're
> mumbling. Are you hereby stating that the "killing pace" by the IDF of
> arabs in the "occupied" territories is similar to that of the nazis of
> Jews? YES OR NO?
What's this pace business? You're speeding it up, obviously. Rest
assured, you can be Nazis without equaling the original Nazi's output.
Maybe you're just little Nazis. Big frogs in a little Middle Eastern
pool. Settle for that?
***
It's just Dicky being Dicky.
He's not the brightest candle on the tree and here's how his mind works: He
will find a word in your argument (or invent one if necessary) and then
he'll work away at that word like a rabid dog with a bone.
For example, in your case you said that the 'pace' of the killing was
accelerating.
There's Dicky's word. That's where he can go to work: 'pace'.
All he has to do now is 1) ignore the fact that you said it was
"accelerating" and 2) jump to the premise that if the 'pace' of the killing
by the IDF isn't as fast as the pace of the killing by the nazis, then the
behaviour of the IDF cannot be compared in any way shape or form to that of
the nazis.
It's a bit like saying that the guy who steals your Volkswagen isn't as big
a thief as the guy who steal your car *and* the entire contents of your
garage.
Being Dicky, he fails to understand that the efficiency with which a crime
is committed does not ameliorate the crime itself. i.e because the zionists
are less industrially efficient in their criminality they are less criminal.
Makes sense in Dicky World.
***
drahcir
wrote:
> On Nov 29, 12:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > > photographs:
>
> > > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > > > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > > > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > > > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > > > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > > > exterminated not long after the photos were taken.
>
> Indeed, and many on the right were exterminated not long before the
> pictures were taken.
No one was "exterminated" on the right side. The vast majority on the
right are ALIVE, in case you hadn't noticed. Some were killed in war,
but none by known nazi methods of extermination (mass shooting,
starvation, enforced disease, gas)
BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
above replying to a post you already replied to.
>
> Please ask him
>
> > > > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > > > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
> > > > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > > > exterminated. Thanks.
>
> Write him a brotherly, fraternal letter, Richard. He may answer you.
> There is a contact page at his web site.
>
>
>
> > > > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
> > > > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
>
> > > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> > Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H.
>
> Everyone else does. Why not you? Lebanon, Gaza.
Here's a newsflash for you, you friggin' ignoramus. LEBANON AND GAZA
ARE NOT OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.
> You killed thousands.
> You "speeded" things up. You'll never have to deal with those dead
> again.
Yes, and the US will never have to deal with Hirohito again. And the
Vietnamese will never have to deal with the US again. War is never
pretty. People die in war. Obviously your alzheimers is creating some
confusion for you between war and what the nazis did to the jews. The
gaza and lebanon wars would not have occurred without repeated arab
aggression. You are a very, very confused person, H.
>
> You're
>
> > mumbling. Are you hereby stating that the "killing pace" by the IDF of
> > arabs in the "occupied" territories is similar to that of the nazis of
> > Jews? YES OR NO?
>
> What you're "doing" in the occupied territories is similar to what the
> Nazis did in their occupied territories. You're killing innocent,
> helpless people.
Really? I hadn't heard. Not only have I not heard about many killed in
the OT's, I hadn't heard about the mass shootings in the OT's. I
hadn't heard about the mass starvation in the OT's. I hadn't heard
about the typhus in the OT's. I hadn't heard about the gas chambers in
the OT's. Do they need ovens to dispose of the corpses in the OT"s?
Are there mass graves in the OT"s? Would you please cite your sources,
and give the numbers killed in the OT's in the last, say, year? Does
it run into the millions in your opinion? I am very curious. Wait,
maybe what you're saying is that, except for the fact that there are
no concentration camps, mass starvations, enforced typhus, mass
shootings, gas chambers, mass graves, ovens, and that there are
practically no casualties - except for all those things, the Israeli
treatment of arabs in the OT is exactly the same as the Nazi treatment
of the jews. Is that it? And if it's killing you're against, how come
you're not posting a bunch of pictures of the bombings occurring
nearly every day in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq, targetting women
and kids in markets? These bombings have nothing to do with war, they
are designed to kill as many innocents as possible, yet no pictures of
blown off heads and arms from you. How come? You seem very, VERY
confused H. Are you sure you're complying with doctor's orders and
taking your alzheimer's meds?
You're justifying it with a violent political
> ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing.
Cite the killing in the OT's. DO IT NOW.
End the occupation
> with its huge open air concentration camps.
There are no concentration camps. Look up the word "concentration
camp" in the dictionary. It does NOT mean a bunch of wretches living
in squalor by the choice of their political leaders for political
reasons.
Then you will be on the
> path to becoming less Naziesque. Surely you want that, don't you?
I asked a simple question, requiring simple YES OR NO ijn reply. You
couldn't give that answer because you are a lowly liar.
>
> What's this pace business?
You friggin' senile twit. From above:
> You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
That's the "pace business". Any other questions?
You're speeding it up, obviously. Rest
> assured, you can be Nazis without equaling the original Nazi's output.
Well, I think you are correct. Two things can have qualitative
similarities but not quantitative ones. You'll need to cite all of
this supposed killing in the OT's so that we can determine if
qualitative similarity exists.
> Maybe you're just little Nazis. Big frogs in a little Middle Eastern
> pool. Settle for that?
>
> > > The fascist behavior of the IDF is obvious.
>
> > More mumble. Please try to speak clearly. Even though it's "obvious",
> > for the edification of the group, will you please answer the above
> > question posed to you in a clear and concise way?
>
> Your question has been answered. I'm glad you enjoyed the parallels to the Nazis.
They are amusing, thus enjoyable.
>
> > For those who may not understand HHWbabble, the above nonsense,
> > designed only to disguise the fact that he has no response to my
> > point, means "duh, drahcir got me again".
>
> Oh, you made a point? Where was that?
Have fun explaining to the group how it is you thought Gaza and
Lebanon were OT's.
dilecticon
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>
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dilecticon
> JEW-WATCH: http://www.jewwatch.com
Aaronovich
On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> photographs:
>
> http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
>nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
>pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
>vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
>exterminated not long after the photos were taken. Please ask him
>whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
>situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
>likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
>exterminated. Thanks.
What a babble. Bordering on the incoherent.
>Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
>bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
Apart from hatred, you show signs of a total lack of education and
rationality.
Aaronovich
"Fish Supper" <li...@sea.com> wrote in message
news:JuCdnRLpcahb4I_W...@bt.com...
Thank you. This Dicky person has been somewhat interesting to me. Your
message puts much into perspective.
>
Aaronovich
On Nov 29, 12:42 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 29, 12:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > > photographs:
>
> > > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > > > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > > > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > > > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > > > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > > > exterminated not long after the photos were taken.
>
> Indeed, and many on the right were exterminated not long before the
> pictures were taken.
>No one was "exterminated" on the right side.e
But many have been. We are exposed to the brutality on evening Televion on
an almost daily basis.
> The vast majority on the
>right are ALIVE, in case you hadn't noticed.
At the same age, the vast majority on the left were still alive too.
> Some were killed in war,
>but none by known nazi methods of extermination (mass shooting,
>starvation, enforced disease, gas)
Known Nazi methods which need the protection of law to escape close
scrutiny.
>BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
>above replying to a post you already replied to.
>
> Please ask him
>
> > > > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > > > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a
> > > > strong
> > > > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > > > exterminated. Thanks.
>
> Write him a brotherly, fraternal letter, Richard. He may answer you.
> There is a contact page at his web site.
>
>
>
> > > > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not
> > > > particularly
> > > > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
>
> > > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> > Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H.
>
> Everyone else does. Why not you? Lebanon, Gaza.
>Here's a newsflash for you, you friggin' ignoramus. LEBANON AND GAZA
>ARE NOT OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.
Gaza might as well be. It is a concentration camp, guarded by Jews.
I have removed the rest of your insane rantings. I do not want to waste too
much time on a fool such as you are.
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:45176619-2880-4d6a...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 29, 12:42 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 12:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
> > > > > <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > > > photographs:
>
> > > > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > > > > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > > > > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > > > > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > > > > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > > > > exterminated not long after the photos were taken.
>
> > Indeed, and many on the right were exterminated not long before the
> > pictures were taken.
> >No one was "exterminated" on the right side.e
>
> But many have been. We are exposed to the brutality on evening Televion on
> an almost daily basis.
I'm glad to hear you watch TV. You might want to consider keeping it
to something you can understand, like Barney. "Brutality" is
subjective, "exterminated" is not. I don't really expect you to
understand the foregoing - it is my hope that you can get a grownup to
explain it to you.
>
> > The vast majority on the
> >right are ALIVE, in case you hadn't noticed.
>
> At the same age, the vast majority on the left were still alive too.
I realize that you want to feel like you belong, like you are
participating, I really do understand. I'm trying to think of a kind
way to tell you that you are clearly not intelligent or informed
enough to do so, that your reply makes no sense, but I can't come up
with one, so I must settle for an honest way.
>
> > Some were killed in war,
> >but none by known nazi methods of extermination (mass shooting,
> >starvation, enforced disease, gas)
>
> Known Nazi methods which need the protection of law to escape close
> scrutiny.
Well, Nazi methods of extermination were mass shootings, enforced mass
typhus, enforced mass starvations, and gas chambers. Which of those
have you observed in Israel or the OT's?
>
>
> >BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
> >above replying to a post you already replied to.
>
> > Please ask him
>
> > > > > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > > > > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a
> > > > > strong
> > > > > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > > > > exterminated. Thanks.
>
> > Write him a brotherly, fraternal letter, Richard. He may answer you.
> > There is a contact page at his web site.
>
> > > > > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not
> > > > > particularly
> > > > > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
>
> > > > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> > > Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H.
>
> > Everyone else does. Why not you? Lebanon, Gaza.
> >Here's a newsflash for you, you friggin' ignoramus. LEBANON AND GAZA
> >ARE NOT OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.
>
> Gaza might as well be. It is a concentration camp, guarded by Jews.
No, it's a place arabs have chosen to force their people to live in
squalor for political purposes.
>
> I have removed the rest of your insane rantings. I do not want to waste too
> much time on a fool such as you are.
Thank you for small favors.
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Care to specify?
tdny
Aaronovich
You lie. It is a concentration lager.
Aaronovich
>Care to specify?
It is obvious to all but hate-filled, uneducated, irrational Jews.
drahcir
You lie. It's a purposeful political structure created by arabs. See?
Debating your style is not very useful, is it? You must now face the
fact that if you weren't a moron, you wouldn't have made such a silly
post. Why not acknowledge your status and enjoy life?
drahcir
Translation: you can't specify. Gee, what a surprise. Go back to
playpen, child.
drahcir
Forgive me, but I'm not nearly so much into watching videos as you
seem to be. You have snipped that to which these videos are intended
to reply. I'll replace it:
>Care to specify?
I really don't see how videos can address that line. If you'd like to
give it another try, do so with WORDS that represent your THOUGHTS
(presuming, of course, that you have some).
tdny
Aaronovich
A lot of words from you, Mister backward Richard, but nothing of substance.
Again.
Gaza is a concentration camp, set up by Israel, guarded by Israel and under
siege by Israel.
I have a very happy life, because I am not a Jew who has to constantly
create new lies to apologise for my/our behavior.
Thank you for providing entertainment.
Aaronovich
As I say. Noise, static, but no substance from Mister backward Richard.
drahcir
I asked you to specify the "known nazi methods" of extermination you
claim are being employed in Israel or the OT's. You failed to answer.
The reason is crystal clear. You are a lowlife and a liar. For you now
to try to say I've said "nothing of substance", when in fact you fled
from what I said, just shows you for what you are - a dishonest,
lying, silly little boy or girl, doesn't really matter.
> Again.
>
> Gaza is a concentration camp,
Putting "again" before something that has been refuted doesn't change
the fact that it is no longer valid in this discussion.
drahcir
If you'd get your head out of the hole, you ostrich, you'd perceive
the substance. No matter. Everyone else does.
Aaronovich
No, Mister backward Richard - everyone else does NOT. You are alone in your
delusion. Occasionally the equally stupid but more malevolent Sharavi steps
in, but not supporting you - rather, she is attacking Iconoclast.
You are obviously unschooled in anything but the Hasbara Handbook.
drahcir
Yeah, they do. They see you fleeing from getting down to comparing
Israel with nazis on the nuts and bolts level. When I ask you to
comment on it, you tell me there's no substance or some other bullshit
to avoid having to admit you're wrong. That's what everyone perceives
because most are not ostriches like you are. Get it now?
Aaronovich
>Yeah, they do.
Not so. You lie, desperately, again.
drahcir
Yup.
Aaronovich
>Yup.
Thank you for your agreeing with me, Mister backward Richard.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Nov 29, 12:42 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 12:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 28, 11:53 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 28, 10:29 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > > > photographs:
>
> > > > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > > > > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > > > > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > > > > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > > > > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > > > > exterminated not long after the photos were taken.
>
> > Indeed, and many on the right were exterminated not long before the
>
> No one was "exterminated" on the right side. The vast majority on the
> right are ALIVE, in case you hadn't noticed. Some were killed in war,
> but none by known nazi methods of extermination (mass shooting,
> starvation, enforced disease, gas)
Humanists see exterminations as if they were one human being at a
time.
One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
Not even for little Nazi status? Get the hell out of the West Bank,
Ratner, were sick of this. We're sick of our young men coming home in
caskets largely because of the mess in the Middle East created by
Zionists just like you.
> BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
> above replying to a post you already replied to.
Gotta keep improving things, Ratner. I've been doing that
continuously.
> > Please ask him
>
> > > > > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > > > > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
> > > > > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > > > > exterminated. Thanks.
>
> > Write him a brotherly, fraternal letter, Richard. He may answer you.
> > There is a contact page at his web site.
>
> > > > > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
> > > > > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
Haha, Finkelstein is not particularly bright. What a laugher. Have you
watched his debate with the Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard?
You really owe it to your little self to watch it. The best you've got
was kicked into the dustbin.
>
> > > > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> > > Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H.
>
> > Everyone else does. Why not you? Lebanon, Gaza.
>
> Here's a newsflash for you, you friggin' ignoramus. LEBANON AND GAZA
> ARE NOT OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.
Sure they are. One just follows the effects of the present regime.
They're pretty much the same as the effects of boots on the ground.
BTW hostage taking is classic Nazi behavior. Israel has 10,000
hostages.
>
> > You killed thousands.
> > You "speeded" things up. You'll never have to deal with those dead
> > again.
>
> Yes, and the US will never have to deal with Hirohito again.
Hirohito remained on his throne and and lived, unmolested, until his
death in bed at roughly 90.
And the
> Vietnamese will never have to deal with the US again. War is never
> pretty. People die in war.
Some people simply die in war. Others die in war as the result of war
crimes. That's the core of your problem.
Obviously your alzheimers is creating some
> confusion for you between war and what the nazis did to the jews. The
> gaza and lebanon wars would not have occurred without repeated arab
> aggression. You are a very, very confused person, H.
I just acknowledged that distinction. Criminality in war time was a
distinct Nazi trait. It's also true of Zionists. See the Goldstone
report. And what's really interesting is that you seem to think that
what you have in Palestine is peace. Keep that up and you'll be
dealing with the impact of peacetime criminality with no fog or
friction and no mitigation.
> > You're
>
> > > mumbling. Are you hereby stating that the "killing pace" by the IDF of
> > > arabs in the "occupied" territories is similar to that of the nazis of
> > > Jews? YES OR NO?
>
> > What you're "doing" in the occupied territories is similar to what the
> > Nazis did in their occupied territories. You're killing innocent,
> > helpless people.
>
> Really? I hadn't heard.
You lie. Read Goldstone.
Not only have I not heard about many killed in
> the OT's, I hadn't heard about the mass shootings in the OT's.
A movement can't be Nazi unless it achieves Nazi economies of scale?
Israeli Zionists are fully qualified little Nazis.
> hadn't heard about the mass starvation in the OT's.
We'll settle for artificially induced mass malnutrition, Zionist
bastard.
I hadn't heard
> about the typhus in the OT's
Consciously creating situation in which hunger and thus disease
flourishes and medical care is denied is a Nazi and/or Sovieta trait.
. I hadn't heard about the gas chambers in
> the OT's. Do they need ovens to dispose of the corpses in the OT"s?
There are corpses aplenty. They died one at a time and the blood is on
Zionist hands.
Are there mass graves in the OT"s? Would you please cite your sources,
> and give the numbers killed in the OT's in the last, say, year?
There is a trail of mass Palestinian graves throughout Israel left
behind in 1947-48. Palestine Remembered tells you where they are. As
you might imagine, the archaeological work is not being done.
Does
> it run into the millions in your opinion? I am very curious.
No, that's not required for little Nazi status.
Wait,
> maybe what you're saying is that, except for the fact that there are
> no concentration camps, mass starvations, enforced typhus, mass
> shootings, gas chambers, mass graves, ovens, and that there are
> practically no casualties -
Same thing, different scale. Little Nazis, Ratner. Nazis were ethnic
cleansing specialists too. Nazis were territorially aggressive too.
Nazis had an ideology which justified the killing too. Just like you
guys Nazis took many, many hostages. Read Ilan Pappe. Come to think of
it, given his attitude toward the Leninist perfection of political
hostage taking, one wonders what he thinks of the Israeli version.
except for all those things, the Israeli
> treatment of arabs in the OT is exactly the same as the Nazi treatment
> of the jews.
Doesn't have to be precisely the same. It meets the basic definition
of a capitalist country with an essentially racist ideology devoted to
territorial expansion and the killing, subjection or expulsion of the
native untermenchen. When you say you can't see parallels you lie. You
see what everyone else sees.
Is that it? And if it's killing you're against, how come
> you're not posting a bunch of pictures of the bombings occurring
> nearly every day in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq, targetting women
> and kids in markets?
Can't do everything. We Americans have a stake in running our own
foreign policy and in avoiding unnecessary foreign wars. If one has to
highlight Israeli criminality to accomplish it, so be it. We're tired
of being shut up by you loud mouth slanderers. Get your people out of
our legislators' faces, Ratner. Quit corrupting and intimidating them.
Quit distorting and corrupting what's left of our democratic system.
You're only three percent of the population and simply should not have
this much influence on matter of war and peace. And you wouldn't were
it not for money and very sleazy tactics, the moral equivalent of
bribery/extortion.
These bombings have nothing to do with war, they
> are designed to kill as many innocents as possible, yet no pictures of
> blown off heads and arms from you. How come?
See above. I don't apologize for focusing on the most immediate issues
impacting the American people. One thing at a time. Quit corrupting
our Congress and Executive. Get the hell out of the West Bank. Quit
lobbying for an American attack on Iran.
You seem very, VERY
> confused H. Are you sure you're complying with doctor's orders and
> taking your alzheimer's meds?
Think, now. The Holocaust was horrendous but not unique in the history
of the 20th Century. America has no obligation to pay reparations for
it, and that's exactly what our subsidies in military support of
Israel consist of, reparations for the crimes of Germany nearly 65
years ago on another continent. The more you keep it up the shorter
will be your tenure in the saddle.
> You're justifying it with a violent political
>
> > ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing.
>
> Cite the killing in the OT's. DO IT NOW.
Gaza, 1,400 just two years ago. The abortive invasion of Lebanon,
roughly the same in an orgy of bombing all over the country. An
endless stream of Palestinian casualties on almost a daily basis. The
comparison of Israeli dead with those of the Palestinians proves that
the Israelis are shooting fish in a barrel, doing it to grind down the
Palestinian Resistance. Then there is the dead associated with the
Naqba--an operation which had nothing to do with defending the country
from the invasions from Arab countries. No, that was separate.
> End the occupation with its huge open air concentration camps.
Can Palestinians come and go as they please? Not just go, which you
would dearly like, but come and go at will? They are concentration
camps, Ratner, prisons, with the inmates completely at the mercy of
the Israeli Zionist military.
> There are no concentration camps. Look up the word "concentration
> camp" in the dictionary. It does NOT mean a bunch of wretches living
> in squalor by the choice of their political leaders for political
> reasons.
The wretchedness of the Palestinians lies at the door of their
oppressors, the Israeli Zionists, who in turn commit these crimes
simply in hopes of stealing more of the Palestinian homeland. For
chrissake you went there all the way from northern Europe specifically
to do it. Read Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
> Then you will be on the path to becoming less Naziesque. Surely you want that, don't you?
>
> I asked a simple question, requiring simple YES OR NO ijn reply. You
> couldn't give that answer because you are a lowly liar.
You've been trying to excuse Israeli crimes by essentially
differentiating them in scope rather than in kind from the behavior of
the very regime which perpetrated the Holocaust. You're trying to use
the Holocaust to excuse perpetration of crimes against humanity
yourselves. It's like a trip through a house of mirrors.
> > What's this pace business?
Not quite Ratner. You've clipped what I responded to down here.
>
> You friggin' senile twit. From above:
>
> > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> That's the "pace business". Any other questions?
>
> You're speeding it up, obviously. Rest
>
> > assured, you can be Nazis without equaling the original Nazi's output.
>
> Well, I think you are correct. Two things can have qualitative
> similarities but not quantitative ones. You'll need to cite all of
> this supposed killing in the OT's so that we can determine if
> qualitative similarity exists.
I've determined it. If you want to do so you too will do the reading.
And do read Ilan Pappe's bookl
>
> > Maybe you're just little Nazis. Big frogs in a little Middle Eastern
> > pool. Settle for that?
>
> > > > The fascist behavior of the IDF is obvious.
>
> > > More mumble. Please try to speak clearly. Even though it's "obvious",
> > > for the edification of the group, will you please answer the above
> > > question posed to you in a clear and concise way?
>
> > Your question has been answered. I'm glad you enjoyed the parallels to the Nazis.
>
> They are amusing, thus enjoyable.
Sure they are, Ratner.
> > > For those who may not understand HHWbabble, the above nonsense,
> > > designed only to disguise the fact that he has no response to my
> > > point, means "duh, drahcir got me again".
>
> > Oh, you made a point? Where was that?
>
> Have fun explaining to the group how it is you thought Gaza and
> Lebanon were OT's.
Oh, that. They certainly are, and the West Bank and Golan too. I've
already replied to that. You've fled sputtering your usual filth.
BTW, another Nazi characteristic was hostage taking on large scale.
The Leninist regime pioneered in that field. Hitler was an astute
pupil of Lenin and Stalin. He actually admired them. Israel holds
10,000 hostages. The Palestinians hold one.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Nov 29, 7:34 pm, "Aaronovich" <aaronov...@home.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 28, 10:12 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
> > > > > > <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Just scroll down, folks and think about each juxtaposed pair of
> > > > > > > photographs:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/deutschland-uber-alles/
>
> > > > > > Um, could you please let fink know that, while I am not one to pick
> > > > > > nits, one tiny difference between the pictures on the left and the
> > > > > > pictures on the right is that there is a strong likelihood that the
> > > > > > vast majority of the non-germans in the left pictures were
> > > > > > exterminated not long after the photos were taken.
>
> > > Indeed, and many on the right were exterminated not long before the
> > > pictures were taken.
> > >No one was "exterminated" on the right side.e
>
> > But many have been. We are exposed to the brutality on evening Televion on
> > an almost daily basis.
>
> I'm glad to hear you watch TV. You might want to consider keeping it
> to something you can understand, like Barney. "Brutality" is
> subjective, "exterminated" is not. I don't really expect you to
> understand the foregoing - it is my hope that you can get a grownup to
> explain it to you.
I've heard it all, now. "Brutality is subjective." The real thing is
the equivalent of a video game or tv violence. Something tells me you
shouldn't be allowed out on the street.
drahcir
wrote:
Your above comment makes no sense - some babbling about video games.
And
what makes you think I would care about what something tells you?
drahcir
Don't try your semantic bullshit with me. A person who would dare
compare the extermination of European jewry with what is going on in
the Occupied Territories is anything but a humanist - monster would be
more appropriate.
>
> One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
First of all, provide some numbers about how many were killed with WP
during the gaza and lebanon wars. DO IT. Then we can discuss how
wartime casualties are different from extermination. BUT GET THE WP
DEATH NUMBERS FIRST. Do it, or you're again proven a lowlife.
> Not even for little Nazi status? Get the hell out of the West Bank,
> Ratner, were sick of this. We're sick of our young men coming home in
> caskets largely because of the mess in the Middle East created by
> Zionists just like you.
>
> > BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
> > above replying to a post you already replied to.
>
> Gotta keep improving things, Ratner. I've been doing that
> continuously.
Senility must be a drag.
>
> > > Please ask him
>
> > > > > > whether, since he wanted to give the impression of analogous
> > > > > > situations in these pairs of photos, he thinks that there is a strong
> > > > > > likelihood that most of the non-jews in the right pictures were
> > > > > > exterminated. Thanks.
>
> > > Write him a brotherly, fraternal letter, Richard. He may answer you.
> > > There is a contact page at his web site.
>
> > > > > > Shit, bottom line is that fink is 1) neurotic and 2) not particularly
> > > > > > bright. Then again, you lap it up, so you're not either.
>
> Haha, Finkelstein is not particularly bright. What a laugher. Have you
> watched his debate with the Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard?
> You really owe it to your little self to watch it. The best you've got
> was kicked into the dustbin.
>
>
>
> > > > > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> > > > Oh, it's "accelerating", is it? I'm not sure I understand, H.
>
> > > Everyone else does. Why not you? Lebanon, Gaza.
>
> > Here's a newsflash for you, you friggin' ignoramus. LEBANON AND GAZA
> > ARE NOT OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.
>
> Sure they are. One just follows the effects of the present regime.
> They're pretty much the same as the effects of boots on the ground.
The Occupied Territories are a specific group of territories, not
something some senile twit feels like identifying one day because he's
in the mood. The definition of the Occupied Territories is a group of
territories 1) won by Israel in the 1967 war, and 2) still occupied by
Israel. You called Gaza and Lebanon part of the Occupied Territories
out of profound ignorance, and now you're desperately trying some
damage control. The funniest part is that you think no one notices.
>
> BTW hostage taking is classic Nazi behavior. Israel has 10,000
> hostages.
Your alzheimers meds are obviously causing hallucinations. You may
want to ask your doctor to change your dosage.
>
>
>
> > > You killed thousands.
> > > You "speeded" things up. You'll never have to deal with those dead
> > > again.
>
> > Yes, and the US will never have to deal with Hirohito again.
>
> Hirohito remained on his throne and and lived, unmolested, until his
> death in bed at roughly 90.
IRRELEVANT. Your ego made you want to recite common knowledge,
although it made no sense. US did not have to deal with the Japanese
people that were killed in WWII - does that help your damaged brain
grasp the analogy to your comment about arab war dead?
>
> And the
>
> > Vietnamese will never have to deal with the US again. War is never
> > pretty. People die in war.
>
> Some people simply die in war. Others die in war as the result of war
> crimes. That's the core of your problem.
More bullshit. The undisputed crimes of the two wars were what started
them - arab aggression. This is besides the point, of course, that
only a monster like you could analogize war dead comprising hundreds
(an infinitesimal percentage of a population) to methodical
extermination comprising millions (a majority of a population).
>
>
> > confusion for you between war and what the nazis did to the jews. The
> > gaza and lebanon wars would not have occurred without repeated arab
> > aggression. You are a very, very confused person, H.
>
> I just acknowledged that distinction. Criminality in war time was a
> distinct Nazi trait.
We're not discussing "criminality in war time". We discussing
extermination. Do try to keep up.
It's also true of Zionists. See the Goldstone
> report. And what's really interesting is that you seem to think that
> what you have in Palestine is peace.
Cite please.
Keep that up and you'll be
> dealing with the impact of peacetime criminality with no fog or
> friction and no mitigation.
Empty rambling above.
>
> > > You're
>
> > > > mumbling. Are you hereby stating that the "killing pace" by the IDF of
> > > > arabs in the "occupied" territories is similar to that of the nazis of
> > > > Jews? YES OR NO?
>
> > > What you're "doing" in the occupied territories is similar to what the
> > > Nazis did in their occupied territories. You're killing innocent,
> > > helpless people.
>
> > Really? I hadn't heard.
>
> You lie. Read Goldstone.
I've read critiques of Goldstone. That's enough for me.
>
> Not only have I not heard about many killed in
>
> > the OT's, I hadn't heard about the mass shootings in the OT's.
>
> A movement can't be Nazi unless it achieves Nazi economies of scale?
PRECISELY. If you knew what "scale" meant, you'd understand. But you
don't. You toss out terms to try to sound intelligent, but often you
blunder. This is one example. What you meant was "A movement can't be
Nazi unless it achieves Nazi numbers?" But you wanted to be
pretentious, and you fucked up. YES, that is correct, a movement can't
be Nazi unless it achieves extermination on a SCALE such as the Nazis
achieved. "Scale" means proportion, in this case, a proportion of the
target population. Otherwise, if my butcher shorts me on a pound of
meat, I can say he's a Nazi. Do you understand now or do I need to
further spell it out for you?
> Israeli Zionists are fully qualified little Nazis.
And you are a fully qualified monster.
>
> > hadn't heard about the mass starvation in the OT's.
>
> We'll settle for artificially induced mass malnutrition, Zionist
> bastard.
LOL! Poor HHW can't think of anything else to say.
>
> I hadn't heard
>
> > about the typhus in the OT's
>
> Consciously creating situation in which hunger and thus disease
> flourishes and medical care is denied is a Nazi and/or Sovieta trait.
That condition does not exist in the OT's, so what are you talking
about. Did you ever see pictures of the people walking around the West
Bank? Do they appear malnourished to you? Did you ever see pictures of
the walking skeletons when the camps were liberated?
>
> . I hadn't heard about the gas chambers in
>
> > the OT's. Do they need ovens to dispose of the corpses in the OT"s?
>
> There are corpses aplenty.
Cite them.
They died one at a time and the blood is on
> Zionist hands.
>
> Are there mass graves in the OT"s? Would you please cite your sources,
>
> > and give the numbers killed in the OT's in the last, say, year?
>
> There is a trail of mass Palestinian graves throughout Israel left
> behind in 1947-48. Palestine Remembered tells you where they are. As
> you might imagine, the archaeological work is not being done.
More unproven lies.
>
> Does
>
> > it run into the millions in your opinion? I am very curious.
>
> No, that's not required for little Nazi status.
>
> Wait,
>
> > maybe what you're saying is that, except for the fact that there are
> > no concentration camps, mass starvations, enforced typhus, mass
> > shootings, gas chambers, mass graves, ovens, and that there are
> > practically no casualties -
>
> Same thing, different scale. Little Nazis, Ratner. Nazis were ethnic
> cleansing specialists too. Nazis were territorially aggressive too.
> Nazis had an ideology which justified the killing too. Just like you
> guys Nazis took many, many hostages. Read Ilan Pappe. Come to think of
> it, given his attitude toward the Leninist perfection of political
> hostage taking, one wonders what he thinks of the Israeli version.
LOL! Palestinian Arabs are the only ethnically cleansed people whose
population has increased at higher than the world average for the last
60 years. Amazing.
>
> except for all those things, the Israeli
>
> > treatment of arabs in the OT is exactly the same as the Nazi treatment
> > of the jews.
>
> Doesn't have to be precisely the same. It meets the basic definition
> of a capitalist country with an essentially racist ideology devoted to
> territorial expansion and the killing, subjection or expulsion of the
> native untermenchen. When you say you can't see parallels you lie. You
> see what everyone else sees.
Only monsters like you see it, H. Your lying and ignorance go with the
territory, but bottom line is, you're a monster.
>
> Is that it? And if it's killing you're against, how come
>
> > you're not posting a bunch of pictures of the bombings occurring
> > nearly every day in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq, targetting women
> > and kids in markets?
>
> Can't do everything. We Americans have a stake in running our own
> foreign policy and in avoiding unnecessary foreign wars. If one has to
> highlight Israeli criminality to accomplish it, so be it. We're tired
> of being shut up by you loud mouth slanderers. Get your people out of
> our legislators' faces, Ratner. Quit corrupting and intimidating them.
> Quit distorting and corrupting what's left of our democratic system.
> You're only three percent of the population and simply should not have
> this much influence on matter of war and peace. And you wouldn't were
> it not for money and very sleazy tactics, the moral equivalent of
> bribery/extortion.
last time I checked, lobbies were legal in the US, Britain, and most
democracies. Perhaps you need to review the definition of "democracy".
>
> These bombings have nothing to do with war, they
>
> > are designed to kill as many innocents as possible, yet no pictures of
> > blown off heads and arms from you. How come?
>
> See above. I don't apologize for focusing on the most immediate issues
> impacting the American people. One thing at a time. Quit corrupting
> our Congress and Executive. Get the hell out of the West Bank. Quit
> lobbying for an American attack on Iran.
Kindly fuck yourself.
>
> You seem very, VERY
>
> > confused H. Are you sure you're complying with doctor's orders and
> > taking your alzheimer's meds?
>
> Think, now. The Holocaust was horrendous but not unique in the history
> of the 20th Century.
Yes, it was unique. Next.
America has no obligation to pay reparations for
> it,
True.
and that's exactly what our subsidies in military support of
> Israel consist of, reparations for the crimes of Germany nearly 65
> years ago on another continent. The more you keep it up the shorter
> will be your tenure in the saddle.
Wrong.
>
> > You're justifying it with a violent political
>
> > > ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing.
>
> > Cite the killing in the OT's. DO IT NOW.
>
> Gaza, 1,400 just two years ago.
LOL! The moron INSISTS he's a moron. Two years ago Gaza WAS NOT one of
the Occupied Territories. Gaza was attacked because its government
fired rockets into Israel.
The abortive invasion of Lebanon,
Ditto for Lebanon - not now and never was one of the Occupied
Territories, except in the very, very sick place called HHW's brain.
> roughly the same in an orgy of bombing all over the country. An
> endless stream of Palestinian casualties on almost a daily basis.
Please, do cite them. If they are on a daily basis, that ought to be
visible somewhere. DO IT OR BE PROVEN A LIAR.
The
> comparison of Israeli dead with those of the Palestinians proves that
> the Israelis are shooting fish in a barrel, doing it to grind down the
> Palestinian Resistance.
Ah, so that is how one determines right and wrong, by comparing
numbers killed? Is that what your sick brain is trying to establish.
OK, let's examine WWII. Germany lost about 7 million in WWII, about
10% of its population. US lost about 400,000, about .3% of its
population. Well, then, it's obvious who were the good guys and who
were the bad guys, using HHW's kiddie logic.
Then there is the dead associated with the
> Naqba--an operation which had nothing to do with defending the country
> from the invasions from Arab countries. No, that was separate.
I love "naqba" - the jews had "Holocaust" and the arabs wanted a word
of their very own. Everyone forgets that there was an equivalent
jewish "naqba", and, unlike the arab one, the jewish one was FORCED.
In the war of 1948, Israeli's lost a HUGE percentage of their
population, arabs did not.
>
> > End the occupation with its huge open air concentration camps.
>
> Can Palestinians come and go as they please? Not just go, which you
> would dearly like, but come and go at will?
That's of their own doing. Were there no threat of terrorism, there's
be no need for security measures. Simple.
They are concentration
> camps, Ratner, prisons, with the inmates completely at the mercy of
> the Israeli Zionist military.
Monsters like you can toss around Nazi terminology for a political
purpose, but most people understand what a concentration camp is and
laugh at your ilk.
>
> > There are no concentration camps. Look up the word "concentration
> > camp" in the dictionary. It does NOT mean a bunch of wretches living
> > in squalor by the choice of their political leaders for political
> > reasons.
>
> The wretchedness of the Palestinians lies at the door of their
> oppressors, the Israeli Zionists, who in turn commit these crimes
> simply in hopes of stealing more of the Palestinian homeland. For
> chrissake you went there all the way from northern Europe specifically
> to do it. Read Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
I don't waste time with propagandistic fairy tales like you do.
> > Then you will be on the path to becoming less Naziesque. Surely you want that, don't you?
>
> > I asked a simple question, requiring simple YES OR NO ijn reply. You
> > couldn't give that answer because you are a lowly liar.
>
> You've been trying to excuse Israeli crimes
Notice we have yet more blahblah, anything but a simple yes or no. I
wonder why...
by essentially
> differentiating them in scope rather than in kind from the behavior of
> the very regime which perpetrated the Holocaust.
Scope determines kind. Otherwise my butcher's a nazi.
You're trying to use
> the Holocaust to excuse perpetration of crimes against humanity
> yourselves. It's like a trip through a house of mirrors.
Unlike you, I don't lie to achieve my political end.
>
> > > What's this pace business?
>
> Not quite Ratner. You've clipped what I responded to down here.
>
Lie. I "clipped" nothing. And you're replying to yourself again, you
twit. How can you possibly keep track of "clipping" when you can't
even keep straight who said what?
>
> > You friggin' senile twit. From above:
>
> > > You're welcome. The pace of your killing in the OTs is accelerating.
>
> > That's the "pace business". Any other questions?
>
> > You're speeding it up, obviously. Rest
>
> > > assured, you can be Nazis without equaling the original Nazi's output.
>
> > Well, I think you are correct. Two things can have qualitative
> > similarities but not quantitative ones. You'll need to cite all of
> > this supposed killing in the OT's so that we can determine if
> > qualitative similarity exists.
>
> I've determined it.
Nice word, "determined". Nice, but meaningless. You've cited exactly
ZERO killing in the Occupied Territories. Nada.
If you want to do so you too will do the reading.
> And do read Ilan Pappe's bookl
>
>
>
> > > Maybe you're just little Nazis. Big frogs in a little Middle Eastern
> > > pool. Settle for that?
>
> > > > > The fascist behavior of the IDF is obvious.
>
> > > > More mumble. Please try to speak clearly. Even though it's "obvious",
> > > > for the edification of the group, will you please answer the above
> > > > question posed to you in a clear and concise way?
>
> > > Your question has been answered. I'm glad you enjoyed the parallels to the Nazis.
>
> > They are amusing, thus enjoyable.
>
> Sure they are, Ratner.
>
> > > > For those who may not understand HHWbabble, the above nonsense,
> > > > designed only to disguise the fact that he has no response to my
> > > > point, means "duh, drahcir got me again".
>
> > > Oh, you made a point? Where was that?
>
> > Have fun explaining to the group how it is you thought Gaza and
> > Lebanon were OT's.
>
> Oh, that. They certainly are, and the West Bank and Golan too. I've
> already replied to that. You've fled sputtering your usual filth.
LOL! HHW's rampant imagination rearing it's ugly head again.
>
> BTW, another Nazi characteristic was hostage taking on large scale.
> The Leninist regime pioneered in that field. Hitler was an astute
> pupil of Lenin and Stalin. He actually admired them. Israel holds
> 10,000 hostages. The Palestinians hold one.
Yes, and the US has millions of "hostages". Perhaps you need to learn
the definitions of "hostage" and "prisoner". Then you may comprehend
the difference.
coaste...@yahoo.com
the Nazis? Yes I do.
>
> > One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
>
> First of all, provide some numbers about how many were killed with WP
> during the gaza and lebanon wars.
Oh, so you acknowledge your vulnerability there and begin an effort to
deflect attention to quantity rather than quality. Not intelligent,
Ratner.
DO IT.
I don't work for you. Nazis committed lots of war crimes. So did the
Yishuv and Israel.
Then we can discuss how
> wartime casualties are different from extermination. BUT GET THE WP
> DEATH NUMBERS FIRST. Do it, or you're again proven a lowlife.
Only a "lowlife" would confront you with the nature of Zionist racism?
How were you indoctrinated with this arrogant, exceptionalist
attitude? How was it inculcated.
>
> > Not even for little Nazi status? Get the hell out of the West Bank,
> > Ratner, were sick of this. We're sick of our young men coming home in
> > caskets largely because of the mess in the Middle East created by
> > Zionists just like you.
>
> > > BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
> > > above replying to a post you already replied to.
>
> > Gotta keep improving things, Ratner. I've been doing that
> > continuously.
>
> Senility must be a drag.
>
Cowardice, moral and intellectual cowardice, is your problem.
Correcting your endless stream of factual errors and distortions is a
patriotic duty. After all you represent Zionism, the enemy of American
democracy as we know it.
US did not have to deal with the Japanese
> people that were killed in WWII - does that help your damaged brain
> grasp the analogy to your comment about arab war dead?
There is no analogy. They Japanese didn't resist American occupation.
They knew it was temporary. We'd write them a new Constitution and
leave. In the words of a very good book on the subject, they embraced
defeat. You can't say that about the Palestinian peasantry now can
you? It's a different experience to be occupied by little Zionist
Nazis who plan to stay and to take your homeland, to grasp for
Lebensraum. MacArthur was extremely popular as short-term American
emperor. He is still remembered with respect by the Japanese. Do you
suppose the Palestinians respect the memory of Ben-Gurion?
> > >And the Vietnamese will never have to deal with the US again. War is never pretty. People die in war.
>
> > Some people simply die in war. Others die in war as the result of war
> > crimes. That's the core of your problem.
> More bullshit. The undisputed crimes of the two wars were what started
> them - arab aggression.
"The two wars"? I suspect you're speaking of the Arab invasion of
Palestine in 1948 and the 1967 war. Make it clear so that I can then
raise the heat.
This is besides the point, of course,
Awww, just when I'm preparing a little historical punch-up for you,
you pull back and try to deflect the readers' attention from your
characteristic blunder. But all you've got is the assertion of a
hasbara formula, to deny what actually happened in those years.
that
> only a monster like you could analogize war dead comprising hundreds
> (an infinitesimal percentage of a population) to methodical
> extermination comprising millions (a majority of a population).
It's thousands, Ratner. The green-eyed monster is Zionist racism. And
no one is comparing the numbers with those associated with Nazi
crimes. You qualify as a little Nazi with no difficulty.
> > > confusion for you between war and what the nazis did to the jews. The
> > > gaza and lebanon wars would not have occurred without repeated arab
> > > aggression. You are a very, very confused person, H.
>
> > I just acknowledged that distinction. Criminality in war time was a
> > distinct Nazi trait.
>
> We're not discussing "criminality in war time". We discussing
> extermination. Do try to keep up.
Haha. Apparently you don't see the Holocaust as criminality in war
time.
>
> It's also true of Zionists. See the Goldstone
>
> > report. And what's really interesting is that you seem to think that
> > what you have in Palestine is peace.
>
> Cite please.
Think now, about Gaza and the Palestinians' symbolic resistance with
homemade rockets which have killed what, seven people? The danger is
so small that the village which is the main target isn't even
evacuated. In fact if it didn't exist the Israelis would have to build
one in a similar location. Why? Because they have to have it for
propaganda purposes. "Those damned Palestinians won't leave us alone."
Listen up you naive fool. Lobbying by foreign countries without
registration and financial meddling in our domestic affairs is a
felony. It is plainly obvious that we need to tinker with the law so
that *domestic* lobbying for a foreign country without registration
and related financial interference in the political process are
included in the definition of prohibited behavior. It's a short jump
to making what you support, the corruption of our congress leading to
our loss of sovereignty in foreign policy, a felony. It's long
overdue.
> > These bombings have nothing to do with war, they
>
> > > are designed to kill as many innocents as possible, yet no pictures of
> > > blown off heads and arms from you. How come?
>
> > See above. I don't apologize for focusing on the most immediate issues
> > impacting the American people. One thing at a time. Quit corrupting
> > our Congress and Executive. Get the hell out of the West Bank. Quit
> > lobbying for an American attack on Iran.
>
> Kindly fuck yourself.
See, you do represent Zionist opinion, Ratner. You think there is a
Zionist RIGHT to corrupt our Congress, to bribe and intimidate, and to
insist that we support you in the oppression of the Palestinian
people. Anyone who differs can go f___ himself. You have no such
right. And we Americans must take away your *ability* to accomplish
it. Were I a government leader I'd be introducing legislation as we
speak.
> > You seem very, VERY
>
> > > confused H. Are you sure you're complying with doctor's orders and
> > > taking your alzheimer's meds?
>
> > Think, now. The Holocaust was horrendous but NOT unique in the history
> > of the 20th Century.
>
> Yes, it was unique. Next.
It's already been deal with. You fled. Do you want to suck it up and
try again?
> America has no obligation to pay reparations for
>
> > it,
>
> True.
>
> and that's exactly what our subsidies in military support of
>
> > Israel consist of, reparations for the crimes of Germany nearly 65
> > years ago on another continent. The more you keep it up the shorter
> > will be your tenure in the saddle.
>
> Wrong.
Brilliant, Ratner. The readership will be left to wonder how you might
have countered my point. They pile up, these unsupported denials.
You're so unused to American intellectuals having the courage to
raise these issues that you've developed no resources to deal with
them. Blanket denials won't work any more. Times are changing and
we're going to wrest back our national autonomy Middle Eastern policy.
> > > You're justifying it with a violent political
>
> > > > ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing.
>
> > > Cite the killing in the OT's. DO IT NOW.
>
> > Gaza, 1,400 just two years ago.
>
> LOL! The moron INSISTS he's a moron. Two years ago Gaza WAS NOT one of
> the Occupied Territories. Gaza was attacked because its government
> fired rockets into Israel.
Because you can make a semantic argument about the meaning of the word
"occupation" it is okay to have gratuitously killed 1400 people?
>
> The abortive invasion of Lebanon,
>
> Ditto for Lebanon - not now and never was one of the Occupied
> Territories, except in the very, very sick place called HHW's brain.
More later. Gotta go to a dinner party.
drahcir
What are you babbling about? I ask you to support your assertion about
WP and somehow your fucked-up brain interprets that as acknowledging
vulnerability?? Are you that far gone?
and begin an effort to
> deflect attention to quantity rather than quality. Not intelligent,
> Ratner.
LOL! YOU CAN'T BACK UP YOUR ASSERTION, YOU PRICK.
>
> DO IT.
>
> I don't work for you. Nazis committed lots of war crimes. So did the
> Yishuv and Israel.
You can't support your assertion about WP? Big surprise - you're just
a lowly liar. NEXT.
> Then we can discuss how
>
> > wartime casualties are different from extermination. BUT GET THE WP
> > DEATH NUMBERS FIRST. Do it, or you're again proven a lowlife.
>
> Only a "lowlife" would confront you with the nature of Zionist racism?
Learn to read, imbecile. Only a lowlife would insinuate something
without having any backup. You just admitted you don't have any
backup, so you're a lowlife. Any other questions?
> How were you indoctrinated with this arrogant, exceptionalist
> attitude? How was it inculcated.
You made an assertion about WP. I asked for proof. As usual, as nearly
ALWAYS, you have none. And then, to top it off, you get offended.
Beyond belief.
>
> > > Not even for little Nazi status? Get the hell out of the West Bank,
> > > Ratner, were sick of this. We're sick of our young men coming home in
> > > caskets largely because of the mess in the Middle East created by
> > > Zionists just like you.
>
> > > > BTW, as usual, you are apparently unable to follow the >'s and are
> > > > above replying to a post you already replied to.
>
> > > Gotta keep improving things, Ratner. I've been doing that
> > > continuously.
>
> > Senility must be a drag.
>
> Cowardice, moral and intellectual cowardice, is your problem.
>
LOL!
As usual, pretentious, irrelevant bullshit. Simple fact: the arabs
killed in gaza and lebanon are war dead, as are the japanese in wwii.
It's so simple, but you use it as a soapbox for your incredibly
pretentious crap.
> > > >And the Vietnamese will never have to deal with the US again. War is never pretty. People die in war.
>
> > > Some people simply die in war. Others die in war as the result of war
> > > crimes. That's the core of your problem.
> > More bullshit. The undisputed crimes of the two wars were what started
> > them - arab aggression.
>
> "The two wars"? I suspect you're speaking of the Arab invasion of
> Palestine in 1948 and the 1967 war. Make it clear so that I can then
> raise the heat.
LOL! You forgot that we were speaking about the non-occupied
territories of gaza and lebanon. Understandable.
>
> This is besides the point, of course,
>
> Awww, just when I'm preparing a little historical punch-up for you,
You mean, like Gaza and Lebanon being part of the Occupied
Territories? That sort of historical punch-up?
> you pull back and try to deflect the readers' attention from your
> characteristic blunder.
Uh-oh, more hallucinations. Better check that alzheimers dose, H. And
nice the way my use of "blunder" below, referring to you, seeped into
your soggy neurons and got parroted.
But all you've got is the assertion of a
> hasbara formula, to deny what actually happened in those years.
>
> that
>
> > only a monster like you could analogize war dead comprising hundreds
> > (an infinitesimal percentage of a population) to methodical
> > extermination comprising millions (a majority of a population).
>
> It's thousands, Ratner. The green-eyed monster is Zionist racism. And
> no one is comparing the numbers with those associated with Nazi
> crimes. You qualify as a little Nazi with no difficulty.
You obviously have no idea what a nazi is.
>
> > > > confusion for you between war and what the nazis did to the jews. The
> > > > gaza and lebanon wars would not have occurred without repeated arab
> > > > aggression. You are a very, very confused person, H.
>
> > > I just acknowledged that distinction. Criminality in war time was a
> > > distinct Nazi trait.
>
> > We're not discussing "criminality in war time". We discussing
> > extermination. Do try to keep up.
>
> Haha. Apparently you don't see the Holocaust as criminality in war
> time.
The fact that it happened in war time is IRRELEVANT.
>
>
>
> > It's also true of Zionists. See the Goldstone
>
> > > report. And what's really interesting is that you seem to think that
> > > what you have in Palestine is peace.
>
> > Cite please.
>
> Think now, about Gaza and the Palestinians' symbolic resistance with
> homemade rockets which have killed what, seven people? The danger is
> so small that the village which is the main target isn't even
> evacuated. In fact if it didn't exist the Israelis would have to build
> one in a similar location. Why? Because they have to have it for
> propaganda purposes. "Those damned Palestinians won't leave us alone."
I guess what you're saying, then, is that the arabs are almost
unbelievably stupid to give the israelis pretext for military
response.
Start a campaign instead of posting to usenet, you useless old fool.
>
> > > These bombings have nothing to do with war, they
>
> > > > are designed to kill as many innocents as possible, yet no pictures of
> > > > blown off heads and arms from you. How come?
>
> > > See above. I don't apologize for focusing on the most immediate issues
> > > impacting the American people. One thing at a time. Quit corrupting
> > > our Congress and Executive. Get the hell out of the West Bank. Quit
> > > lobbying for an American attack on Iran.
>
> > Kindly fuck yourself.
>
> See, you do represent Zionist opinion, Ratner. You think there is a
> Zionist RIGHT to corrupt our Congress, to bribe and intimidate, and to
> insist that we support you in the oppression of the Palestinian
> people. Anyone who differs can go f___ himself. You have no such
> right. And we Americans must take away your *ability* to accomplish
> it. Were I a government leader I'd be introducing legislation as we
> speak.
Do something about it. Get off your fat ass and participate.
>
> > > You seem very, VERY
>
> > > > confused H. Are you sure you're complying with doctor's orders and
> > > > taking your alzheimer's meds?
>
> > > Think, now. The Holocaust was horrendous but NOT unique in the history
> > > of the 20th Century.
>
> > Yes, it was unique. Next.
>
> It's already been deal with. You fled.
Cite, please. Or it's just another lie.
Do you want to suck it up and
> try again?
>
> > America has no obligation to pay reparations for
>
> > > it,
>
> > True.
>
> > and that's exactly what our subsidies in military support of
>
> > > Israel consist of, reparations for the crimes of Germany nearly 65
> > > years ago on another continent. The more you keep it up the shorter
> > > will be your tenure in the saddle.
>
> > Wrong.
>
> Brilliant, Ratner. The readership will be left to wonder how you might
> have countered my point. They pile up, these unsupported denials.
You haven't gotten it, you twit. Unsupported denials for unsupported
assertions. I don't waste time for your pronouncements. Sheesh, you
are dense.
> You're so unused to American intellectuals having the courage to
> raise these issues that you've developed no resources to deal with
> them. Blanket denials won't work any more. Times are changing and
> we're going to wrest back our national autonomy Middle Eastern policy.
>
> > > > You're justifying it with a violent political
>
> > > > > ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing.
>
> > > > Cite the killing in the OT's. DO IT NOW.
>
> > > Gaza, 1,400 just two years ago.
>
> > LOL! The moron INSISTS he's a moron. Two years ago Gaza WAS NOT one of
> > the Occupied Territories. Gaza was attacked because its government
> > fired rockets into Israel.
>
> Because you can make a semantic argument about the meaning of the word
> "occupation" it is okay to have gratuitously killed 1400 people?
The reason 1400 had to die is because the enemy fought completely
against the terms set forth in the Geneva Conventions, specifically
having to do with fighting from civilian areas. Had the arabs fought
with any care for their brothers, the casualties would have been a
fraction of what they were.
>
> > The abortive invasion of Lebanon,
>
> > Ditto for Lebanon - not now and never was one of the Occupied
> > Territories, except in the very, very sick place called HHW's brain.
>
> More later. Gotta go to a dinner party.
You have my permission to snip the above in the second half of your
reply.
Fish Supper
>
> One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
First of all, provide some numbers about how many were killed with WP
during the gaza and lebanon wars. DO IT. Then we can discuss how
wartime casualties are different from extermination. BUT GET THE WP
DEATH NUMBERS FIRST. Do it, or you're again proven a lowlife.
***
Why are the numbers killed by WP important?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> try again?
>
> > America has no obligation to pay reparations for
>
> > > it,
>
> > True.
>
> > and that's exactly what our subsidies in military support of
>
> > > Israel consist of, reparations for the crimes of Germany nearly 65
> > > years ago on another continent. The more you keep it up the shorter
> > > will be your tenure in the saddle.
>
> > Wrong.
>
> Brilliant, Ratner. The readership will be left to wonder how you might
> have countered my point. They pile up, these unsupported denials.
> You're so unused to American intellectuals having the courage to
> raise these issues that you've developed no resources to deal with
> them. Blanket denials won't work any more. Times are changing and
>
> > > > You're justifying it with a violent political
>
> > > > > ideology. It's very Naziesque. Stop the killing.
>
> > > > Cite the killing in the OT's. DO IT NOW.
>
> > > Gaza, 1,400 just two years ago.
>
> > LOL! The moron INSISTS he's a moron. Two years ago Gaza WAS NOT one of
> > the Occupied Territories. Gaza was attacked because its government
> > fired rockets into Israel.
>
> Because you can make a semantic argument about the meaning of the word
> "occupation" it is okay to have gratuitously killed 1400 people?
>
>
>
> > The abortive invasion of Lebanon,
>
> > Ditto for Lebanon - not now and never was one of the Occupied
> > Territories, except in the very, very sick place called HHW's brain.
>
> More later. Gotta go to a dinner party.
Okay, I'm back.
>
> > > roughly the same in an orgy of bombing all over the country. An
> > > endless stream of Palestinian casualties on almost a daily basis.
>
> > Please, do cite them. If they are on a daily basis, that ought to be
> > visible somewhere. DO IT OR BE PROVEN A LIAR.
>
> > The
>
> > > comparison of Israeli dead with those of the Palestinians proves that
> > > the Israelis are shooting fish in a barrel, doing it to grind down the
> > > Palestinian Resistance.
>
> > Ah, so that is how one determines right and wrong, by comparing
> > numbers killed? Is that what your sick brain is trying to establish.
No, just that you're shooting Palestinian fish in a barrel.
> > OK, let's examine WWII.
Must we? You're little Nazis. And your Krupp, Inc., is located in
America.
Germany lost about 7 million in WWII, about
> > 10% of its population. US lost about 400,000, about .3% of its
> > population. Well, then, it's obvious who were the good guys and who
> > were the bad guys, using HHW's kiddie logic.
See above. Fish in a barrel. That's all it meant. Little Nazis,
Ratner.
>
> > Then there is the dead associated with the
>
> > > Naqba--an operation which had nothing to do with defending the country
> > > from the invasions from Arab countries. No, that was separate.
>
> > I love "naqba" -
Yes, you Zionists certainly do.
the jews had "Holocaust" and the arabs wanted a word
> > of their very own.
The Jews wanted a word of their own and settled upon Holocaust. The
Arabs have done the same thing and still you whine.
Everyone forgets that there was an equivalent
> > jewish "naqba", and, unlike the arab one, the jewish one was FORCED.
> > In the war of 1948, Israeli's lost a HUGE percentage of their
> > population, arabs did not.
Look at this evasiveness. The Arabs lost more men in combat than did
the Jews. Count them one at a time, Ratner. Each man is equal. We're
humanists, not Zionist racists.
> > > > End the occupation with its huge open air concentration camps.
>
> > > Can Palestinians come and go as they please? Not just go, which you
> > > would dearly like, but come and go at will?
>
> > That's of their own doing. Were there no threat of terrorism, there's
> > be no need for security measures. Simple.
>
> > They are concentration
>
> > > camps, Ratner, prisons, with the inmates completely at the mercy of
> > > the Israeli Zionist military.
>
> > Monsters like you can toss around Nazi terminology for a political
> > purpose, but most people understand what a concentration camp is and
> > laugh at your ilk.
You can't get anyone to laugh at what you've done to the Palestinian
people.
>
> > > > There are no concentration camps. Look up the word "concentration
> > > > camp" in the dictionary. It does NOT mean a bunch of wretches living
> > > > in squalor by the choice of their political leaders for political
> > > > reasons.
>
> > > The wretchedness of the Palestinians lies at the door of their
> > > oppressors, the Israeli Zionists, who in turn commit these crimes
> > > simply in hopes of stealing more of the Palestinian homeland. For
> > > chrissake you went there all the way from northern Europe specifically
> > > to do it. Read Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
>
> > I don't waste time with propagandistic fairy tales like you do.
You generate them. It's called Hasbara.
Netanyahu is about to free 1,000 Palestinians for one nice Jewish boy.
If they weren't hostages in the first place, they are now certainly
turned into them, hostages for the safe return of one Jewish amateur
soldier. You even hold hundreds of Palestinian children in prison as
hostages. What do you hold them for, Ratner? The good behavior of
their Parents and relatives? Lenin invented this pattern.
drahcir
Please repost so that I have a hope of deciphering what your points
are.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
A good question when use of it in those circumstances is alleged by
competent authority to be a war crime.
Fish Supper
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:68ab9578-7563-4bb3...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
***
yes, I thought it apt.
Particularly as Dicky says himself:
> > Ah, so that is how one determines right and wrong, by comparing
> > numbers killed? Is that what your sick brain is trying to establish.
If numbers killed are no determinant of right & wrong, and if the IDF
murdered fewer people with White Phoshorous than the Nazis did with Zyklon B
and if the IDF murdered fewer people in Gaza than did the Nazis in the
eradication of the Warsaw Ghetto, each event being a war crime then it
follows that there is no difference between the actions of nazis and of the
IDF. The crimes were pre-planned and aimed at innocents, and if we are all
agreed that only a sick mind would link the numbers killed to the rectitude
of the crime, then we can only conclude that the actions of the IDF were the
actions of nazis.
This is too easy. I'm off to the zoo to see if I can find a mongoose to talk
to.
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Ratner wrote:
> > > Yes, and the US has millions of "hostages". Perhaps you need to learn
> > > the definitions of "hostage" and "prisoner". Then you may comprehend
> > > the difference.
I wrote:
> Netanyahu is about to free 1,000 Palestinians for one nice Jewish boy.
> If they weren't hostages in the first place, they are now certainly
> turned into them, hostages for the safe return of one Jewish amateur
> soldier. You even hold hundreds of Palestinian children in prison as
> hostages. What do you hold them for, Ratner? The good behavior of
> their Parents and relatives? Lenin invented this pattern.
Ratner didn't respond because he could not. The Israelis can not buy
and sell prisoners precisely as hostages are bought and sold without
the prisoners in fact being hostages.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
He simply pretends not to understand. It's a shame he won't read
Harvest of Sorrow. Conquest speaks of this precise point.
When it comes to judging the perpetrators of Nazi, Stalinist and
Zionist- style crimes against humanity, one early reaches a point
where the discovery of more corpses can make no contribution to the
verdict of guilty. It can't change the sentence either. How often can
a perpetrator be hanged? Hoess, for example, could be hanged only
once. The argument that the ethnic cleansers of a million can be
treated differently from the ethnic cleansers of ten million won't
bear scrutiny. The political uses to which the relative numbers are
put after the fact are different matters. The uses of the Holocaust as
an excuse to terrorize the Palestinians is the most common of Zionist
tactics.
drahcir
wrote:
First of all, you poor oaf, you are replying to yourself yet again.
Secondly, I most certainly did respond - the arabs being held in
prisons are prisoners, not hostages. I pointed that out to you, but
you seem to be unable to grasp it. Here, maybe this will help. Let's
examine the definition of "hostage". Dictionary.com says it's
a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain
conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.
Well, the arabs are certainly being held, I say as prisoners, you say
as hostages. Why don't you specify for the group the conditions or
terms the fulfillment of which you think they are being held for.
Another difference between a hostage and a prisoner is that hostages
need not have committed a crime or aggressed against holder. Do you
think this is the case with the arabs being held?
Aaronovich
He waits for the comic book version.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 3, 7:05 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 2, 11:49 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > Ratner wrote:
> > > > > Yes, and the US has millions of "hostages". Perhaps you need to learn
> > > > > the definitions of "hostage" and "prisoner". Then you may comprehend
> > > > > the difference.
> > I wrote:
> > > Netanyahu is about to free 1,000 Palestinians for one nice Jewish boy.
> > > If they weren't hostages in the first place, they are now certainly
> > > turned into them, hostages for the safe return of one Jewish amateur
> > > soldier. You even hold hundreds of Palestinian children in prison as
> > > hostages. What do you hold them for, Ratner? The good behavior of
> > > their Parents and relatives? Lenin invented this pattern.
>
> > Ratner didn't respond because he could not. The Israelis can not buy
> > and sell prisoners precisely as hostages are bought and sold without
> > the prisoners in fact being hostages.
>
> First of all, you poor oaf, you are replying to yourself yet again.
You wish I were, that's certain.
> Secondly, I most certainly did respond -
You simply asked whether I knew the difference between hostages and
prisoners.
the arabs being held in
> prisons are prisoners, not hostages.
Haha. At least a thousand of them are hostages for the release of that
nice Jewish boy Gilad Shalit AS WE SPEAK. And all the rest of them
will be too should the the occasion arise.
I pointed that out to you, but
> you seem to be unable to grasp it. Here, maybe this will help. Let's
> examine the definition of "hostage". Dictionary.com says it's
>
> a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain
> conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.
Perfect, given or held as security for the release of Gilad Shalit.
Why don't you give this up, Ratner. You're really not competent.
>
> Well, the arabs are certainly being held, I say as prisoners, you say
> as hostages. Why don't you specify for the group the conditions or
> terms the fulfillment of which you think they are being held for.
The release of Gilad Shalit, of course, and others are for enforcement
of future conditions and terms which may arise pursuant to other
negotiations. They're banked or contingent hostages. That's
especially true of the hundreds of children in the Zionist Gulag. You
know, Ratner, it really is a failure of education and life experience
on your part. It's obvious you've never exercised any systematic
mental discipline.
> Another difference between a hostage and a prisoner is that hostages
> need not have committed a crime or aggressed against holder. Do you
> think this is the case with the arabs being held?
Most of them are tortured during interrogation after having been
arrested on some sort of suspicion of resistance to the the
occupation. Some of them get no hearings at all. None get due process.
Holding them in Israel is contrary to the law of nations. The system
would be a joke were it not so oppressive. Do you actually want me to
go to the human rights orgs and make you look even more ridiculous?
You are defending an absolutely bankrupt system.
coaste...@yahoo.com
That must be it. Or the fey porno version.
Aaronovich
Haha. He is fey, yes? It does not surprise me.
drahcir
Ah, so let me understand. What you are claiming is that the 10,000
arabs were not arrested for any crime, they were detained and put into
jail simply to eventually secure the release of Shalit - is that what
you are claiming? YES OR NO.
>
>
>
> > Well, the arabs are certainly being held, I say as prisoners, you say
> > as hostages. Why don't you specify for the group the conditions or
> > terms the fulfillment of which you think they are being held for.
>
> The release of Gilad Shalit, of course, and others are for enforcement
> of future conditions and terms which may arise pursuant to other
> negotiations. They're banked or contingent hostages. That's
> especially true of the hundreds of children in the Zionist Gulag. You
> know, Ratner, it really is a failure of education and life experience
> on your part. It's obvious you've never exercised any systematic
> mental discipline.
I see, so these prisoners were just walking on the street, minding
their own business, when Israeli troops swooped down onto them and,
for no reason at all except to secure the release of Shalit, took them
into custody and threw them into prison. I see.....
>
> > Another difference between a hostage and a prisoner is that hostages
> > need not have committed a crime or aggressed against holder. Do you
> > think this is the case with the arabs being held?
>
> Most of them are tortured during interrogation after having been
> arrested on some sort of suspicion of resistance to the the
> occupation.
Cite please.
Some of them get no hearings at all.
Cite please.
None get due process.
Cite please.
> Holding them in Israel is contrary to the law of nations.
No it isn't.
The system
> would be a joke were it not so oppressive. Do you actually want me to
> go to the human rights orgs and make you look even more ridiculous?
> You are defending an absolutely bankrupt system.
Get the cites.
drahcir
the prisoners to be exchanged for Shalit. However, there IS a list of
20 female prisoners released a couple of months ago in exchange for a
video of Shalit. This list contains the names, crimes committed and
sentences. Any comments, H?
"A list of names posted on Wednesday shows none of the women to be
freed were being held for murder offenses and some are nearing the end
of their sentences."
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-09-30-voa34-69780317.html
Fish Supper
> Most of them are tortured during interrogation after having been
> arrested on some sort of suspicion of resistance to the the
> occupation.
Cite please.
Some of them get no hearings at all.
Cite please.
None get due process.
Cite please.
> Holding them in Israel is contrary to the law of nations.
No it isn't.
The system
> would be a joke were it not so oppressive. Do you actually want me to
> go to the human rights orgs and make you look even more ridiculous?
> You are defending an absolutely bankrupt system.
Get the cites.
***
Dicko, you're a strange laddie indeed.
You scream for cites and proof and evidence in every argument - and yet,
when this is provided as it invariably is, you simply call it a lie, throw a
personal insult and then crawl away back under the stone whence you came.
Now, would you care to tell us all again how the IDF don't fire on
ambulances?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 2, 11:49 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > Ratner wrote:
> > > > > Yes, and the US has millions of "hostages". Perhaps you need to learn
> > > > > the definitions of "hostage" and "prisoner". Then you may comprehend
> > > > > the difference.
> > I wrote:
> > > Netanyahu is about to free 1,000 Palestinians for one nice Jewish boy.
> > > If they weren't hostages in the first place, they are now certainly
> > > turned into them, hostages for the safe return of one Jewish amateur
> > > soldier. You even hold hundreds of Palestinian children in prison as
> > > hostages. What do you hold them for, Ratner? The good behavior of
> > > their Parents and relatives? Lenin invented this pattern.
>
> > Ratner didn't respond because he could not. The Israelis can not buy
> > and sell prisoners precisely as hostages are bought and sold without
> > the prisoners in fact being hostages.
>
> First of all, you poor oaf, you are replying to yourself yet again.
I'm replying to your words at each moment wherein it might please me
to do so. The ">s" mean nothing regarding whether it pleases me to do
so. Your constant complaints about trivia are signs of weakness and
desperation.
> Secondly, I most certainly did respond - the arabs being held in
> prisons are prisoners, not hostages.
That's a mere assertion already definitively disproved by me. They are
people captured and then sold for a specific return.
I pointed that out to you, but
> you seem to be unable to grasp it. Here, maybe this will help. Let's
> examine the definition of "hostage". Dictionary.com says it's
>
> a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain
> conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.
Held for the fulfillment of the promise to free Gilad Shalit. A
thousand to one! You, in your racist capacity, no doubt think it
accurately reflects inherent human value. The rest of us see in it the
deep weakness and fear in the heart of the bully.
Snip.
coaste...@yahoo.com
So he says, right here on scj, etc.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Dec 3, 9:15 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 3, 7:05 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 2, 11:49 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > Ratner wrote:
> > > > > > Yes, and the US has millions of "hostages". Perhaps you need to learn
> > > > > > the definitions of "hostage" and "prisoner". Then you may comprehend
> > > > > > the difference.
> > > I wrote:
> > > > Netanyahu is about to free 1,000 Palestinians for one nice Jewish boy.
> > > > If they weren't hostages in the first place, they are now certainly
> > > > turned into them, hostages for the safe return of one Jewish amateur
> > > > soldier. You even hold hundreds of Palestinian children in prison as
> > > > hostages. What do you hold them for, Ratner? The good behavior of
> > > > their Parents and relatives? Lenin invented this pattern.
>
> > > Ratner didn't respond because he could not. The Israelis can not buy
> > > and sell prisoners precisely as hostages are bought and sold without
> > > the prisoners in fact being hostages.
>
> > First of all, you poor oaf, you are replying to yourself yet again.
>
> I'm replying to your words at each moment wherein it might please me
> to do so.
Saying that it might please you to appear an idiot only makes you
appear more of one.
The ">s" mean nothing regarding whether it pleases me to do
> so. Your constant complaints about trivia are signs of weakness and
> desperation.
I'm not complaining, H. I'm simply pointing out how senile you are.
>
> > Secondly, I most certainly did respond - the arabs being held in
> > prisons are prisoners, not hostages.
>
> That's a mere assertion already definitively disproved by me.
Maybe in your imagination. Not in discussion. Of course, if you're not
imagining it, you'd cite it, right? Besides, isn't it amazing that
although the names of the prisoners have not been released, you've
already "definitively disproved" their criminality? You're just a
stinking liar, H. You lie in nearly every statement you make.
They are
> people captured and then sold for a specific return.
Nope. They are captured because they committed a crime. I have
provided proof of the criminality of the 20 female prisoners exchanged
for a video of Shalit elsewhere in this thread. You have chosen not to
reply to that post - gosh, I wonder why. Since there has been no list
released yet of the 900+ prisoners being considered in an exchange for
Shalit, I cannot prove anything about them yet (and neither can you).
But I think the criminality of the 20 females is sufficient to show
that once again you are a liar.
>
> I pointed that out to you, but
>
> > you seem to be unable to grasp it. Here, maybe this will help. Let's
> > examine the definition of "hostage". Dictionary.com says it's
>
> > a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain
> > conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.
>
> Held for the fulfillment of the promise to free Gilad Shalit. A
> thousand to one! You, in your racist capacity, no doubt think it
> accurately reflects inherent human value. The rest of us see in it the
> deep weakness and fear in the heart of the bully.
I'm not the one who set the coniditions - Hamas is.
>
> Snip.
Congratulations on finally learning "snip" as opposed to the fogie-ish
"clip".
drahcir
twit, not only an antisemite, not only a person who lies consistently,
but is also what I can only describe as a monster.
From 2 days ago IN THIS THREAD:
************
> > Don't try your semantic bullshit with me. A person who would dare
> > compare the extermination of European jewry with what is going on in
> > the Occupied Territories is anything but a humanist - monster would be
> > more appropriate.
> I *dare* to point out the similarities of Zionist racism to that of
> the Nazis? Yes I do.
> > > One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
> > First of all, provide some numbers about how many were killed with WP
> > during the gaza and lebanon wars.
> Oh, so you acknowledge your vulnerability there
What are you babbling about? I ask you to support your assertion about
WP and somehow your fucked-up brain interprets that as acknowledging
vulnerability?? Are you that far gone?
and begin an effort to
> deflect attention to quantity rather than quality. Not intelligent,
> Ratner.
LOL! YOU CAN'T BACK UP YOUR ASSERTION, YOU PRICK.
********
In case it has escaped anyone, HHW has above compared the Nazi use of
gas in gas chambers that exterminated millions of people to the
Israeli use of WP (white phosphorus) in the Gaza and Lebanon wars. Of
course, in order to see how ludicrous this analogy is, all one has to
do is to ask this prick to provide some numbers insofar as number
killed by WP in these wars, which is exactly what I did. Of course,
this lying scum either does not have the capacity to do that, or knows
that the number will make him look silly - in any case, he refuses to
answer. That, folks, is HHW (aka iconoclast, cazador) in a nutshell.
Anyone who ever considered anything positive about this monster had
better reconsider.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Respond on the merits to my words and you can, perhaps, show that you
are capable of dealing them, i.e., with me. If you don't you remain a
foul poseur.
> The ">s" mean nothing regarding whether it pleases me to do
>
> > so. Your constant complaints about trivia are signs of weakness and
> > desperation.
>
> I'm not complaining, H. I'm simply pointing out how senile you are.
You're lying about what you're doing.
> > > Secondly, I most certainly did respond - the arabs being held in
> > > prisons are prisoners, not hostages.
> > That's a mere assertion already definitively disproved by me.
>
> Maybe in your imagination. Not in discussion.
You have to respond if you're not going to lose by default, Ratner. If
there has been exchange of ideas it's simply because you don't
respond. I recently used your own definition of "hostage" to defeat
you with facts you have to admit: a thousand to one.
Of course, if you're not
> imagining it, you'd cite it, right?
I have: one thousand to one. Trading imprisoned human beings for
something you want, Gilad Shalit.
Besides, isn't it amazing that
> although the names of the prisoners have not been released, you've
> already "definitively disproved" their criminality? You're just a
> stinking liar, H. You lie in nearly every statement you make.
You accuse me of "lying" every time you take a whipping, i.e., every
day. It's as if you think that suffices as a legitimate Zionist
response to my arguments.
Let me ask a very serious question. How is it that there can be
Israeli criminal jurisdiction outside of Israel? Think seriously
before before responding. Here's the question in an appropriate
hypothetical form.
How can it be that Palestinians can be grabbed off the street in their
own country by a foreign army, deported to a foreign country without
any process, imprisoned without bail, "tried" in the foreign country
under the foreign country's law and procedure and then be forced to
serve their inevitable terms in the foreign country. Imagine, say,
Upper Volta sending a division or two to Jaffa, arresting 10,000
Israelis for various "crimes" committed in Israel, shipping them back
to Africa, trying them under Sharia Law, executing some by beheading,
whacking off various extremities of others, whipping yet more and
confining the survivors at hard labor on a millet gruel diet in what
there passes for prisons?
I presume you will admit that the Jewish State would take umbrage, no?
This is a serious and valid question, Ratner. Don't flee, because the
follow-up questions will further elucidate the problems you have. You
really want to learn how bad a plight Israel is in, right?
> They are
>
> > people captured and then sold for a specific return.
>
> Nope. They are captured because they committed a crime. I have
> provided proof of the criminality of the 20 female prisoners exchanged
> for a video of Shalit elsewhere in this thread. You have chosen not to
> reply to that post - gosh, I wonder why. Since there has been no list
> released yet of the 900+ prisoners being considered in an exchange for
> Shalit, I cannot prove anything about them yet (and neither can you).
> But I think the criminality of the 20 females is sufficient to show
> that once again you are a liar.
For almost all of the political prisoners sent to the Gulag
Archipelago by the Stalinist regime there was a file in the bowels of
the NKVD. In each of these files there was an indictment, "evidence"
and a sentence.
>
>
>
> > I pointed that out to you, but
>
> > > you seem to be unable to grasp it. Here, maybe this will help. Let's
> > > examine the definition of "hostage". Dictionary.com says it's
>
> > > a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain
> > > conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.
>
> > Held for the fulfillment of the promise to free Gilad Shalit. A
> > thousand to one! You, in your racist capacity, no doubt think it
> > accurately reflects inherent human value. The rest of us see in it the
> > deep weakness and fear in the heart of the bully.
>
> I'm not the one who set the coniditions - Hamas is.
Think carefully about this. You are holding these prisoners to extract
"good behavior" from a third party, Hamas. Go back to you hostage
definition.
Clip
drahcir
Are you blind as well as stupid? I already did respond.
if you're not going to lose by default, Ratner.
That would be the only way for you to win, moron.
If
> there has been exchange of ideas it's simply because you don't
> respond.
I would just love to hear all the chuckles around the globe resulting
from that one. I've proven with cites how you flee, H. The above is
nothing more than your patented masturbating.
I recently used your own definition of "hostage" to defeat
> you with facts you have to admit: a thousand to one.
More self-pleasuring. Prove it's not with cites.
>
> Of course, if you're not
>
> > imagining it, you'd cite it, right?
>
> I have: one thousand to one. Trading imprisoned human beings for
> something you want, Gilad Shalit.
>
> Besides, isn't it amazing that
>
> > although the names of the prisoners have not been released, you've
> > already "definitively disproved" their criminality? You're just a
> > stinking liar, H. You lie in nearly every statement you make.
>
> You accuse me of "lying" every time you take a whipping, i.e., every
> day. It's as if you think that suffices as a legitimate Zionist
> response to my arguments.
LOL!!
>
> Let me ask a very serious question. How is it that there can be
> Israeli criminal jurisdiction outside of Israel? Think seriously
> before before responding. Here's the question in an appropriate
> hypothetical form.
>
> How can it be that Palestinians can be grabbed off the street in their
> own country
Hmm, sorry to interrupt, H, but what country was that? I'll await your
reply to that question before proceeding, ok?
coaste...@yahoo.com
There has been an elaborate discussion of this. Every argument Miss
Ratner has made has been dealt with fully and candidly.
She did not respond and therefore we can only presume that I have
prevailed by default.
Of
> course, in order to see how ludicrous this analogy is, all one has to
> do is to ask this prick to provide some numbers
I've also dealt with his numbers argument. He admitted a state can
indulge Nazi-like policies without achieving Hitlerian levels of dead.
He's a defender of Little Nazi behavior.
insofar as number
> killed by WP in these wars, which is exactly what I did. Of course,
> this lying scum either does not have the capacity to do that, or knows
> that the number will make him look silly
One family smothered and burned to death through the criminal use of
white phosphorus is enough to make an analogy to other criminal
regimes. It's the quality of the act, not the number of deaths, which
makes for the Nazi analogy. And it isn't just WP. No, no. There were
something like 1,400 victims in Gaza, maybe a fourth of them children.
It was shooting fish in a barrel, in a prison with no hope of escape.
The Israelis weren't giving out humanitarian visas for refuge in
Israel because their regime is not humane.
- in any case, he refuses to
> answer. That, folks, is HHW (aka iconoclast, cazador) in a nutshell.
> Anyone who ever considered anything positive about this monster had
> better reconsider.
Only monsters criticize Israeli crimes against humanity?? Only
monsters can see any parallels with other criminal regimes?? It
certainly is a good way to be labeled by Zionists in order to distract
attention from the crimes to the messenger. It's just a price we must
pay when dealing with thugs like Ratner. Think now, who are the
monsters, the killers or the critics?
He doesn't want me to answer, "folks".
drahcir
wrote:
Fuck you, H. YOU compared Israeli use of WP to Nazi use of gas in gas
chambers. I repeatedly asked you to cite the numbers for WP. YOU
REFUSE BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU ARE A COWARD.
Only
> monsters can see any parallels with other criminal regimes?? It
> certainly is a good way to be labeled by Zionists in order to distract
> attention from the crimes to the messenger. It's just a price we must
> pay when dealing with thugs like Ratner. Think now, who are the
> monsters, the killers or the critics?
>
> He doesn't want me to answer, "folks".
CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
Fish Supper
CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
***
calm down, dicko - you'll give yourself a stroke. Now, deep breath and
answer my question: why do you want to know the numbers?
coaste...@yahoo.com
Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes
Indiscriminate Attacks Caused Needless Civilian Suffering
MARCH 25, 2009
RELATED MATERIALS:
Q & A on Israel’s Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza
OTHER MATERIAL:
Witness accounts and additional analysis of IDF use of white
phosphorus
Rain of Fire: Israel’s Unlawful Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza
RELATED FEATURES:
Rain of Fire: White Phosphorus in Gaza
Video: White Phosphorus Use in Gaza
Israel/Gaza: Satellite Imagery of White Phosphorus Use
Maps: White Phosphorus Use in Gaza
Israel/Gaza: Photographs of White Phosphorus Use
Photos: White Phosphorus Use in Gaza
"For the needless civilian deaths caused by white phosphorus, senior
commanders should be held to account."
Fred Abrahams, senior emergencies researcher at Human Rights Watch and
co-author of the report
(Jerusalem) - Israel's repeated firing of white phosphorus shells over
densely populated areas of Gaza during its recent military campaign
was indiscriminate and is evidence of war crimes, Human Rights Watch
said in a report released today.
The 71-page report, "Rain of Fire: Israel's Unlawful Use of White
Phosphorus in Gaza," provides witness accounts of the devastating
effects that white phosphorus munitions had on civilians and civilian
property in Gaza. Human Rights Watch researchers in Gaza immediately
after hostilities ended found spent shells, canister liners, and
dozens of burnt felt wedges containing white phosphorus on city
streets, apartment roofs, residential courtyards, and at a United
Nations school. The report also presents ballistics evidence,
photographs, and satellite imagery, as well as documents from the
Israeli military and government.
Militaries use white phosphorus primarily to obscure their operations
on the ground by creating thick smoke. It can also be used as an
incendiary weapon.
"In Gaza, the Israeli military didn't just use white phosphorus in
open areas as a screen for its troops," said Fred Abrahams, senior
emergencies researcher at Human Rights Watch and co-author of the
report. "It fired white phosphorus repeatedly over densely populated
areas, even when its troops weren't in the area and safer smoke shells
were available. As a result, civilians needlessly suffered and died."
The report documents a pattern or policy of white phosphorus use that
Human Rights Watch says must have required the approval of senior
military officers.
"For the needless civilian deaths caused by white phosphorus, senior
commanders should be held to account," Abrahams said.
On February 1, Human Rights Watch submitted detailed questions to the
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) about its white phosphorus use in Gaza.
The IDF did not provide responses, citing an internal inquiry being
conducted by the Southern Command.
In the recent Gaza operations, Israeli forces frequently air-burst
white phosphorus in 155mm artillery shells in and near populated
areas. Each air-burst shell spreads 116 burning white phosphorus
wedges in a radius extending up to 125 meters from the blast point.
White phosphorus ignites and burns on contact with oxygen, and
continues burning at up to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit (816 degrees
Celsius) until nothing is left or the oxygen supply is cut. When white
phosphorus comes into contact with skin it creates intense and
persistent burns.
When used properly in open areas, white phosphorus munitions are not
illegal, but the Human Rights Watch report concludes that the IDF
repeatedly exploded it unlawfully over populated neighborhoods,
killing and wounding civilians and damaging civilian structures,
including a school, a market, a humanitarian aid warehouse, and a
hospital.
Israel at first denied it was using white phosphorus in Gaza but,
facing mounting evidence to the contrary, said that it was using all
weapons in compliance with international law. Later it announced an
internal investigation into possible improper white phosphorus use.
"Past IDF investigations into allegations of wrongdoing suggest that
this inquiry will be neither thorough nor impartial," Abrahams said.
"That's why an international investigation is required into serious
laws of war violations by all parties."
The IDF knew that white phosphorus poses life-threatening dangers to
civilians, Human Rights Watch said. A medical report prepared during
the recent hostilities by the Israeli ministry of health said that
white phosphorus "can cause serious injury and death when it comes
into contact with the skin, is inhaled or is swallowed." Burns on less
than 10 percent of the body can be fatal because of damage to the
liver, kidneys, and heart, the ministry report says. Infection is
common and the body's absorption of the chemical can cause serious
damage to internal organs, as well as death.
If the IDF intended to use white phosphorus as a smokescreen for its
forces, it had a readily available non-lethal alternative to white
phosphorus - smoke shells produced by an Israeli company, Human Rights
Watch concluded.
All of the white phosphorus shells that Human Rights Watch found were
manufactured in the United States in 1989 by Thiokol Aerospace, which
was running the Louisiana Army Ammunition Plant at the time. On
January 4, Reuters photographed IDF artillery units handling
projectiles whose markings indicate that they were produced in the
United States at the Pine Bluff Arsenal in September 1991.
To explain the high number of civilian casualties in Gaza, Israeli
officials have repeatedly blamed Hamas for using civilians as "human
shields" and for fighting from civilian sites. In the cases documented
in the report, Human Rights Watch found no evidence of Hamas using
human shields in the vicinity at the time of the attacks. In some
areas Palestinian fighters appear to have been present, but this does
not justify the indiscriminate use of white phosphorus in a populated
area.
Human Rights Watch said that for multiple reasons it concluded that
the IDF had deliberately or recklessly used white phosphorus munitions
in violation of the laws of war. First, the repeated use of air-burst
white phosphorus in populated areas until the last days of the
operation reveals a pattern or policy of conduct rather than
incidental or accidental usage. Second, the IDF was well aware of the
effects of white phosphorus and the dangers it poses to civilians.
Third, the IDF failed to use safer available alternatives for
smokescreens.
The laws of war obligate states to investigate impartially allegations
of war crimes. The evidence available demands that Israel investigate
and prosecute as appropriate those who ordered or carried out unlawful
attacks using white phosphorus munitions, Human Rights Watch said.
The United States government, which supplied Israel with its white
phosphorus munitions, should also conduct an investigation to
determine whether Israel used it in violation of the laws of war,
Human Rights Watch said.
coaste...@yahoo.com
------------------------------------------------------
Israel accused of 'reckless' use of white phosphorus
Human Rights Watch says military should be held to account for 'war
crimes'
By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem
Thursday, 26 March 2009SHARE PRINTEMAILTEXT SIZE NORMALLARGEEXTRA
LARGE
AFP
Palestinians run to safety during an Israeli strike on a UN school in
Beit Lahia during the Gaza war in January
ENLARGE
Israel "deliberately and recklessly" fired white phosphorus shells in
densely populated areas of Gaza in an "indiscriminate" way that killed
and wounded civilians and is "evidence of war crimes", Human Rights
Watch said yesterday.
A detailed report from the agency says the Israeli military knew white
phosphorus's lethal capacity to cause intense burns, and that the
firing of it in airburst artillery shells revealed a "pattern or
policy of conduct rather than incidental or accidental usage."
And the 71-page report reveals that the 15 January firing of
phosphorus shells on or near the UN Relief and Works Agency compound
in Gaza City, where 700 civilians were sheltering, continued for at
least two hours after UN staff began making repeated telephone calls
to the Israeli military asking it to stop. The shells caused an
estimated $10m (£6.8m) damage and led to burning for 12 days after the
attack.
Related articles
Netanyahu pledges to be a 'partner for peace'
Letters: Israel's contempt for human life
Search the news archive for more stories
While documenting cases in which civilians were burnt to death or
severely hurt and civilian property set on fire, the report says that
the majority of civilian deaths were not caused by white phosphorus
but from other "missiles, bombs, heavy artillery, tank shells, and
small arms fire".
But the HRW researcher Fred Abrams said senior Israeli commanders
should be held account for its usage in violation of international law
requirements to avoid civilian harm. While the use of phosphorus is
permitted to hide troop movements in non-civilian areas, Mr Abrams
added: "In Gaza, the Israeli military didn't just use white phosphorus
in open areas as a screen for its troops. It fired white phosphorus
repeatedly over densely populated areas, even when its troops weren't
in the area and safe smoke shells were available. As a result,
civilians needlessly suffered and died."
An airburst 155mm artillery shell spreads 116 white phosphorus wedges
in a range of 125 metres, which ignites on contact with oxygen and
burns at up to 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit until nothing is left or the
oxygen supply is cut. When it comes into contact with skin it creates
intense and persistent burns, sometimes down to the bone. HRW says an
Israeli health ministry report produced during the 22-day military
offensive in Gaza said that burns to 10 per cent of the body can be
fatal because of damage to the liver, kidneys and heart.
Witness reports taken by HRW describe the killing of a bank manager,
his wife and two of their children in their car during white
phosphorus shelling in the Tel-el-Hawa area of Gaza City on 15
January. According to a Palestinian journalist, Fathi Sabbah, whose
own building in the area came under attack, when ambulances came to
take the bodies away from the partly melted car, they found "only a
few bones" of the four occupants. The report quotes another witness,
Muhammad Al Sharif, as saying that a piece of a skull and some teeth
lay beside the car.
The report also highlights, among a total of six cases documented in
which 12 civilians were killed, the deaths of five members of the Abu
Halima family and the wounding of five others. These included the
badly burnt Sabah Abu Halima 44, who lost three of her children, in
the Siyafa village on the edge of Atatra in northern Gaza when a
phosphorus-bearing artillery shell hit their house. The accounts given
to HRW broadly corroborate those given by family members to
journalists in Gaza in January, including from The Independent, which
found one of the sour-smelling phosphorus wedges outside the house.
HRW says it found no evidence that Hamas was using civilians as human
shields in the area at the time of the cases of white phosphorus
shelling it examined. And it called on the United States, as the main
supplier to Israel of white phosphorus munitions to investigate
whether they were used in violation of international law. HRW says
that of the white phosphorus shells it found in Gaza were made in 1989
Thiokol Aerospace, which was running the Louisiana Army Ammunition
Plant at the time
The IDF orginally denied that it was using white phosphorus but later
said that it use was in accordance with international law. The HRW
report says that the apparently frequent use in cases where there were
not even ground troops in the area "strongly suggests that the IDF
[Israel Defence Forces] was not using the munition for its obscurant
qualities but rather for its incendiary effect".
That was contested in an Israel Defence Forces response issued last
night which said that the military's investigation of its use of
"smoke shells" was close to conclusion and that based on the findings
at this stage "it was already possible to conclude that the IDF's use
of them was "in accordance with international law".
It added that claims of indiscriminate use were "baseless". It added
that the third protocol on certain conventional weapons – though not
signed by Israel – did not class "weapons used for screening" as
"incendiary"
A burning issue: Weapon or flare?
White phosphorus, known as Willy Pete, ignites when exposed to the
air. It is not banned by international law so long as it is used to
create a smoke screen to protect advancing troops or to illuminate
targets. However, the 1980 Geneva treaty stipulates it must not be
used as an offensive weapon in densely-populated areas, where
civilians can sustain severe burns.
coaste...@yahoo.com
This boy will tell you about numbers. Everyone needs to see it!
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=3133
drahcir
Hmm, I've scanned the below. Of course, you don't cite your source -
to be expected. However, I DON'T SEE ANY NUMBERS. YOU NEED NUMBERS TO
JUSTIFY YOUR EQUATING ISRAEL'S USE OF WP WHILE FIGHTING WAR TO NAZI
USE OF GAS CHAMBERS.
I REPEAT, CITE NUMBERS, COWARD.
drahcir
The below is exactly what you posted in your prior post, from a
different source.
STILL NO NUMBERS.
CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
drahcir
Shit happens in war. Especially when one side chooses to fight from
within densely populated civilian areas.
YOU STILL HAVE CITED NO NUMERS TO JUSTIFY YOUR EQUATING ISRRAELI USE
OF WP WHILE FIGHTING AN ENEMY TO NAZI USE OF GAS CHAMBERS.
CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
Or, simply admit that you can't.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:35:55 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
>
> Shit happens in war. Especially when one side chooses to fight from
> within densely populated civilian areas.
>
> YOU STILL HAVE CITED NO NUMERS TO JUSTIFY YOUR EQUATING ISRRAELI USE
> OF WP WHILE FIGHTING AN ENEMY TO NAZI USE OF GAS CHAMBERS.
>
> CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
>
> Or, simply admit that you can't.
Here's some numbers for you. Surely you trust Human Rights Watch!
White Phosphorus Use in Gaza
White phosphorus is a chemical substance dispersed in artillery
shells, bombs, rockets, or mortars, used primarily to obscure military
operations on the ground. When released upon ground contact or air-
burst, it emits a dense white smoke that militaries use to screen the
movement of troops. The smoke also interferes with infra-red optics
and weapon-tracking systems, thus protecting military forces from
guided weapons such as anti-tank guided missiles. Its use in open
areas is permissible under international law, but air-bursting white
phosphorus over populated areas is unlawful because it places
civilians at unnecessary risk and its wide dispersal of burning wedges
may amount to an indiscriminate attack.
White phosphorus can also be used as a weapon against hardened
military targets, such as bunkers. However, it may not be used as an
anti-personnel weapon when a weapon less likely to cause unnecessary
suffering is available.
White phosphorus is not considered a chemical weapon and is not banned
per se. But like all weapons its use is restricted by the fundamental
principles of international humanitarian law: it must be used in a
manner that adequately distinguishes between combatants and civilians,
and it may never target the latter.
In Gaza, the IDF most frequently air-burst white phosphorus in 155mm
artillery shells. Each air-burst spread 116 burning white phosphorus
wedges in a radius extending up to 125 meters from the blast point,
depending on conditions and the angle of attack.
White phosphorus ignites and burns on contact with oxygen, and
continues burning at up to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit (816 degrees
Celsius) until nothing is left or the oxygen supply is cut. When white
phosphorus comes into contact with skin it creates intense and
persistent burns, sometimes to the bone. Infection is common and the
body's absorption of the chemical can cause serious damage to internal
organs, as well as death.
In its Gaza operations, the IDF apparently used white phosphorus in
three ways. First, on at least three occasions the IDF air-burst
white phosphorus in densely populated areas. In the crowded Gaza City
neighborhood of Tel al-Hawa, for example, Israeli forces on January 15
fired air-burst white phosphorus directly over homes and apartment
buildings where civilians were living or taking shelter, killing at
least four civilians from one family. On that day, white phosphorus
shells struck the al-Quds Hospital and its administration building run
by the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, setting parts of the hospital
on fire and forcing the evacuation of about 50 patients and 500
neighborhood residents who had taken refuge there.
Also on January 15, at least three white phosphorus shells struck the
main UNRWA compound in the Rimal neighborhood of central Gaza City,
wounding three and starting fires that gutted four buildings and
destroyed more than US$3.7 million worth of medical supplies.
According to UNRWA officials, they had been speaking with IDF officers
throughout the morning as the shells landed progressively closer to
the compound, asking them to halt fire. About 700 civilians were
sheltering in the UN compound at the time.
At another well-marked UN facility – a school in Beit Lahiya
sheltering roughly 1,600 displaced persons – the IDF air-burst at
least three white phosphorus shells on January 17, the day before the
cessation of major hostilities. One discharged shell landed in a
classroom, killing two brothers who were sleeping and severely
injuring their mother and a cousin. The attack wounded another 12
people and set a classroom on fire. As with all of its facilities in
Gaza, the UN had provided the IDF with the GPS coordinates of the
school prior to military operations.
In the attacks on the UNRWA compound and the UN Beit Lahiya school,
Human Rights Watch's investigation revealed no military justification
for using white phosphorus as an obscurant because Israeli forces were
not on the ground in those areas at the time of the attacks. When
queried by Human Rights Watch by letter about these incidents, the IDF
declined to respond, citing its ongoing investigation.
Second, the IDF used air-burst white phosphorus on the edges of
populated areas, perhaps as an obscurant to mask the movement of its
forces. In some of these cases, such as in Siyafa village near Beit
Lahiya on January 4 and Khuza'a village east of Khan Yunis on January
10 and 13, substantial amounts of white phosphorus landed up to a few
hundred meters inside residential areas, killing at least six civilian
and wounding dozens. The use of white phosphorus in these residential
areas violated the obligation to take all feasible measures during
military operations to minimize civilian harm.
Third, the IDF apparently used air-burst white phosphorus in open
areas along the 1948 armistice line separating Israel and Gaza,
perhaps to screen troop movements and to burn shrubs and trees that
might serve as cover for Palestinian armed groups, as well as to set
off landmines and improvised explosive devices. Human Rights Watch
was not able to investigate whether this use resulted in the
destruction of civilian objects in excess of the expected military
gain because security concerns prohibited travel to the area.
In all of these cases, if smoke-screening was the intended aim, then
the IDF possessed alternatives to the highly incendiary white
phosphorus; namely, 155mm smoke projectiles, which produce the
equivalent visual screening properties without the incendiary and
destructive effects. Smokescreens generated by smoke artillery can be
deployed more easily over a wider area than white phosphorus with no
risk of fires or burns to civilians. Israel Military Industries (IMI)
manufactures such shells. While smoke shells do not block infra-red
optics and weapon-tracking systems, the IDF consistently used white
phosphorus during the day, obviating the need to block night vision,
and Human Rights Watch found no evidence that Hamas fired anti-tank
guided missiles. Even if Israeli soldiers or armor in need of cover
had been on the ground in the areas where white phosphorus was used,
air-bursting the munition creates a less effective smokescreen than
ground-bursts because the smoke is more widely dispersed. Ground-
burst white phosphorus, targeted properly, is less likely to harm
civilians because the burning wedges stay more contained.
The consistent use of air-burst white phosphorus instead of smoke
projectiles, especially where no Israeli forces were on the ground,
strongly suggests that the IDF was not using the munition for its
obscurant qualities, but rather for its incendiary effect. Indeed,
Human Rights Watch is not aware of the IDF using its white phosphorus
in Gaza before, despite numerous incursions with personnel and armor.
In order to explain the high number of civilian casualties from the
fighting in Gaza, Israeli government and IDF officials have repeatedly
blamed Hamas for using civilians as "human shields" and for fighting
from civilian objects. In the cases documented in this report, Human
Rights Watch found no evidence of Hamas using human shields in the
vicinity at the time of the attacks. In some areas Palestinian
fighters appear to have been present, such as in Khuza'a and the Tel
al-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza City, but this does not justify the
indiscriminate use of white phosphorus in a populated area.
Human Rights Watch has long criticized the IDF for firing 155mm high
explosive shells into or near densely populated areas as
indiscriminate attacks in violation of the laws of war. Using the
same artillery to fire air-burst white phosphorus munitions, which
send burning phosphorus wedges 125 meters in all directions, is
similarly unlawful when used in populated areas.
The total number of Palestinians killed and injured by white
phosphorus is not known and will likely remain so. Hospitals in Gaza
were unable to provide statistics on white phosphorus casualties
because they lacked the diagnostic tools to determine the cause of
burns. Medical records from the time are also poor because hospitals
were overwhelmed by the numbers of injured and dead.
Still, the serious impact on civilians and civilian objects is clear.
In the six cases documented in this report alone, which represent a
selection of white phosphorus attacks in Gaza, white phosphorus
shells, burning white phosphorus wedges, or the resulting fires killed
12 civilians, including three women and seven children, one of them a
fifteen-month-old baby. Dozens were wounded by burns or smoke
inhalation. Human Rights Watch encountered cases of civilians who
were injured from stepping on white phosphorus remains up to 12 days
after major hostilities had stopped.
Palestinian and foreign doctors who treated burn victims told Human
Rights Watch about seeing intense and very deep burns. On some
occasions the wounds began to burn again when cleaned, which is
consistent with white phosphorus igniting on contact with oxygen.
"For the first time I'm seeing strange kinds of burns, very deep to
the bone," one doctor at al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City told Human
Rights Watch. "And they cause a bacterial infection unlike anything
else."
Some seriously burned patients were evacuated to Egypt for treatment,
especially if they needed skin grafts, because Gazan hospitals could
not offer proper care. "We have a lot of burns, actually chemical
burns," a doctor in Cairo treating Gazans told Human Rights Watch.
"Most are third degree burns, which look like chemical burns and not
ordinary burns. There is no skin and sometimes even no muscle."
During eleven days of research from January 21 to 31, 2009, Human
Rights Watch researchers found 24 spent white phosphorus 155mm shells
in civilian areas of Gaza, apparently in the places where they had
fallen, including in homes and on streets in residential
neighborhoods. The shells and the canisters they contained were
colored a distinctive light green, which identifies them as having
held white phosphorus.
Palestinian de-miners showed Human Rights Watch an additional 48
shells that they said they had removed from civilian areas, although
the precise location where they found these shells is unclear. It is
unlikely that the de-miners collected any of these shells from open
areas near the Gaza-Israel armistice line due to the security concerns
of entering those areas; Israeli forces have repeatedly opened fire on
anyone who gets within a few hundred meters of Israeli territory.
Human Rights Watch also found canister liners and dozens of burnt felt
wedges containing white phosphorus on streets, roofs, private
courtyards, and the UN school in Beit Lahiya. Many of them reignited
when kicked or prodded, thereby exposing the white phosphorus to
oxygen. When lit and smoking, they emitted a strong odor similar to
garlic, which is typical of white phosphorus.
All of the white phosphorus shells that Human Rights Watch found came
from the same lot manufactured in the United States in 1989 by Thiokol
Aerospace, which was running the Louisiana Army Ammunition Plant at
the time. In addition, on January 4, 2009, Reuters photographed IDF
artillery units handling projectiles whose markings indicate that they
were produced in the United States at the Pine Bluff Arsenal in
September 1991.
Israel's willingness to investigate its use of white phosphorus is
welcome, but history suggests that the likelihood of an objective
examination is slim. Previous IDF investigations have failed to look
objectively at alleged laws of war violations by Israeli soldiers and
commanders. In the case of Operation Cast Lead, military
investigators have already suggested that soldiers and commanders did
no wrong, even before the investigations are complete.
"Commanders during the fighting shouldn't be losing sleep because of
the investigations," said Col. Liron Liebman, who became head of the
IDF's international law department after the major fighting ended in
January. "It's impossible not to make mistakes in such a crowded
environment, under pressure."[1] Colonel Liebman added that war
crimes charges brought against Israeli soldiers and commanders are
"legal terrorism."
The United States government, which supplied Israel with its white
phosphorus munitions, should also conduct an investigation to
determine whether Israel used it in violation of international
humanitarian law.
drahcir
Finally. Thank you - that was like pulling teeth. And with good
reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that if we accept as
true the completely unconfirmed and anecdotal evidence presented by
HRW, there was a total of 12 civilians killed by WP in a total of
three separate events. The proof that this is not verified is that no
official indictment has been produced thus far. But even if eventually
it is found to be true, I repeat, shit happens in wartime. Sometimes
bad decisions are made. It's happened in every war in history. If
these events happened, they were quite likely mistakes in judgment by
a few officers. If this were a matter of policy and the policy was to
weaponize WP and use it against civilians, the Israelis must be
amazingly incompetent to have killed only 12. No, these few
unconfirmed events were almost certainly mistakes in judgment.
Mistakes of this kind are of course much more likely to occur when
dealing with a fighting force that hides in and fights from areas
densely populated with civilians - I am sure even someone such as you
can understand that. Let's get one thing clear - I am not denying
that if this handful of events did happen, it should not have. Bottom
line - we have a creature such as yourself equating a series of three
unconfirmed events that were probably errors in judgment by a few
officers and that may have killed 12 people, to a vast policy of
extermination that killed a few millions of people. You are equating
the two because, based on comparison of anecdotal Israeli use during
nighttime combat of WP in Arab civilian areas three times, that was
probably not policy, but rather bad individual decisions, and may have
killed 12 people, and incredibly well-documented German use of gas
chambers to kill millions in non-combat situations, not as a product
of battle, but of a policy of extermination, you are using the same
labels for both the Israelis and Germans: Nazis. Here's what you said:
One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
If anyone ever needed absolute proof that you are a monster crazy with
hate and have about as much chance of objective analysis of an issue
as I have of running a 4 minute mile, they now have it. Thank you.
> off landmines and improvised explosive ...
>
> read more »
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:10:05 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
Clip
> >> > One family smothered and burned to death through the criminal use of
> >> > white phosphorus is enough to make an analogy to other criminal
> >> > regimes. It's the quality of the act, not the number of deaths, which
> >> > makes for the Nazi analogy. And it isn't just WP. No, no. There were
> >> > something like 1,400 victims in Gaza, maybe a fourth of them children.
> >> > It was shooting fish in a barrel, in a prison with no hope of escape.
> >> > The Israelis weren't giving out humanitarian visas for refuge in
> >> > Israel because their regime is not humane.
>
> >> > - in any case, he refuses to
>
> >> > > answer. That, folks, is HHW (aka iconoclast, cazador) in a nutshell.
> >> > > Anyone who ever considered anything positive about this monster had
> >> > > better reconsider.
>
> >> > Only monsters criticize Israeli crimes against humanity??
>
> >> Fuck you, H.
> >> >Only monsters can see any parallels with other criminal regimes?? It
> >> > certainly is a good way to be labeled by Zionists in order to distract
> >> > attention from the crimes to the messenger. It's just a price we must
> >> > pay when dealing with thugs like Ratner. Think now, who are the
> >> > monsters, the killers or the critics?
>
> >> > He doesn't want me to answer, "folks".
>
> >> CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
>
> >Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes
> >Indiscriminate Attacks Caused Needless Civilian Suffering
>
> Hmm, I've scanned the below. Of course, you don't cite your source -
You suffer so elegantly, Ratner.
> to be expected. However, I DON'T SEE ANY NUMBERS. YOU NEED NUMBERS TO
> JUSTIFY YOUR EQUATING ISRAEL'S USE OF WP WHILE FIGHTING WAR TO NAZI
> USE OF GAS CHAMBERS.
You have numbers. You just can't use them without making yourself
VULNERABLE.
drahcir
coaste...@yahoo.com
the specific analogy I make between Israeli war criminals and Nazi war
criminals. I hope all our colleagues here will read it carefully.
On Dec 4, 11:17 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:10:05 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
> >> > > I ask you to support your assertion about
> >> > > WP and somehow your fucked-up brain interprets that as acknowledging
> >> > > vulnerability?? Are you that far gone?
Specifically what "assertion about WP" do you refer to? That the use
of WP in civilian areas is a war crime? Well, sir, it certainly is.
> >> > > > You...deflect attention to quantity rather than quality. Not intelligent,
> >> > > > Ratner.
> >> > > LOL! YOU CAN'T BACK UP YOUR ASSERTION, YOU PRICK.
What assertion, Ratner? That the use of WP in civilian areas is a war
crime? Be specific now. You're the one deranged enough to be
mentioning gas chambers. You're not even on point, a fact I will
carefully explain below
> >> > > ********
> >> > > In case it has escaped anyone, HHW has above compared the Nazi use of
> >> > > gas in gas chambers that exterminated millions of people to the
> >> > > Israeli use of WP (white phosphorus) in the Gaza and Lebanon wars.
Show us that assertion, Ratner. You're lying. You can't isolate on my
alleged "assertion" without being punched up again. You know that.
> >> > There has been an elaborate discussion of this. Every argument Miss
> >> > Ratner has made has been dealt with fully and candidly.
> >> > She did not respond and therefore we can only presume that I have
> >> > prevailed by default.
>
> >> > Of
>
> >> > > course, in order to see how ludicrous this analogy is, all one has to
> >> > > do is to ask this prick to provide some numbers
>
> >> > I've also dealt with his numbers argument. He admitted a state can
> >> > indulge Nazi-like policies without achieving Hitlerian levels of dead.
> >> > He's a defender of Little Nazi behavior.
>
> >> > insofar as number
>
> >> > > killed by WP in these wars, which is exactly what I did. Of course,
> >> > > this lying scum either does not have the capacity to do that, or knows
> >> > > that the number will make him look silly
My argument that you--here and now--are struggling to defend conduct
analogous to conduct of Nazis stands like a rock. The Israeli conduct
is detailed in the Goldstone Report. Criminality of the Nazi regime is
writ across the pages of history. Both regimes were/are criminal. Both
regimes committed/commit war crimes as a matter of long-term policy.
Both regimes were large scale ethnic-cleansers. The parallels are such
that I am justified in characterizing both as partaking in Naziesque
behavior. The behavior matters to the analogy. That the numbers of
dead aren't the same doesn't. You have admitted that qualitative and
quantitative analyses are different matters. You can make any point
you like with the fact that the Nazis killed more victims. But you
can't escape Israeli criminality by doing it. A murderer is a murderer
regardless of how many he kills. And the Israeli regime stands
convicted of serial murder.
> >> > One family smothered and burned to death through the criminal use of
> >> > white phosphorus is enough to make an analogy to other criminal
> >> > regimes. It's the quality of the act, not the number of deaths, which
> >> > makes for the Nazi analogy. And it isn't just WP. No, no. There were
> >> > something like 1,400 victims in Gaza, maybe a fourth of them children.
> >> > It was shooting fish in a barrel, through the bars in a prison with no hope of escape.
> >> > The Israelis weren't giving out humanitarian visas for refuge in
> >> > Israel because their regime is not humane.
>
> >> > - in any case, he refuses to answer. That, folks, is HHW (aka iconoclast, cazador) in a nutshell.
> >> > > Anyone who ever considered anything positive about this monster had
> >> > > better reconsider.
>
> >> > Only monsters criticize Israeli crimes against humanity??
>
> >> Fuck you, H. YOU compared Israeli use of WP to Nazi use of gas in gas
> >> chambers.
Did I mention gas chambers? Concentrate now. Did I mention gas
chambers?
I repeatedly asked you to cite the numbers for WP. YOU
> >> REFUSE BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU ARE A COWARD.
The little boy in the video represents a "number". Did you listen to
his narrative about a specific Israeli war crime against helpless
civilians? It's no leap at all to see the parallel with Nazis--and
Stalinists, and Maoists, and Pol Potists, No leap at all. It's what
criminal regimes DO rather than their relative success in killing
large numbers of people which matters. The use of WP in civilian areas
is a war crime. If civilians are killed or wounded in the commission
of a war crime the crime is complete. So is the analogy with other
criminal regimes. Should a regime kill a dozen in the commission of a
war crime, its agents are war criminals. Should a regime kill
millions, its agents are war criminals. All can be prosecuted in the
Hague under the same legislation. That's my analogy. You get yourself
into these messes because you can't think in disciplined fashion.
> >> Only
>
> >> > monsters can see any parallels with other criminal regimes?? It
> >> > certainly is a good way to be labeled by Zionists in order to distract
> >> > attention from the crimes to the messenger. It's just a price we must
> >> > pay when dealing with thugs like Ratner. Think now, who are the
> >> > monsters, the killers or the critics?
> >> CITE THE NUMBERS, COWARD.
The little boy in the video represents a number, the number one. The
Israeli agents who wronged him are war criminals. He describes the
deaths of his family. Yes, killed by Israeli war criminals. Monsters,
genuine monster perps, Ratner, not just critics who shed light on the
behavior.
>> >Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes
> >Indiscriminate Attacks Caused Needless Civilian Suffering
>
> Hmm, I've scanned the below. Of course, you don't cite your source -
You can find it in 30 seconds. You shouldn't shed so much light on the
fact that you're turning in the wind here.
> to be expected. However, I DON'T SEE ANY NUMBERS. YOU NEED NUMBERS TO
> JUSTIFY YOUR EQUATING ISRAEL'S USE OF WP WHILE FIGHTING WAR TO NAZI
> USE OF GAS CHAMBERS.
You repeatedly mention gas chambers. I didn't bring them into this
exchange. You did. It's part of the famous Holocaust Industry
technique. From the beginning I've pointed out that massive Nazi
numbers are irrelevant to the analogy I'm describing.
> I REPEAT, CITE NUMBERS, COWARD.
You have the little boy and his family. What more do you need? Where
will greater numbers get you but more certainly within the
"conviction" range for your beloved Israeli war criminals. Big Nazis,
little Nazis--both categories are Nazi as in war criminal. From the
point of view of the Israeli Zionists, it's really a shame that they
are represented here by a person who is both disabled morally and also
of such limited intellect that he can never see where these
discussions are going until he--and his clients--are irretrievably
convicted.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 5, 10:36 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com
You affect laughter at the strangest times. It's something like the
murderer Miss Knox doing a cartwheel in the outer office of the
Italian police station when first arrested.
drahcir
wrote:
Just cut the piles of meaningless crap below and reply to my reply to
your post that FINALLY presented some numbers on Israel's use of WP
from earlier today:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.israel/msg/bc002ef466f5d1b4
Sheesh, you blab insufferably and meaninglessly when you are vainly
attempting to distract. Haven't you learned by now that that doesn't
work?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 4, 11:30 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
Clip
> > Here's some numbers for you. Surely you trust Human Rights Watch!
>
> Finally. Thank you - that was like pulling teeth.
No it wasn't. You got stuff like this from me early. You just didn't
understand vast numbers were irrelevant to the Nazi analogy I was
making. You just wanted to continue whining in capital letters. You
wanted to "monsterize" by playing the Holocaust card. You know, the
gambit by which American Jews *extorted* a billion from the Swiss on
behalf of Holocaust survivors which they then did not distribute to
the said Holocaust survivors.
And with good
> reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that if we accept as
> true the completely unconfirmed and anecdotal evidence presented by
> HRW, there was a total of 12 civilians killed by WP in a total of
> three separate events.
No one accepts them as definitive, but proceed. I'm waiting for you
here.
The proof that this is not verified is that no
> official indictment has been produced thus far.
Do you deny that there were deaths in civilian neighborhoods
attributable to WP? You had better clear that up. Your shtick has to
do with an absence of astronomical numbers. Implicitly you say that
without astronomical numbers the Israeli perps are not war criminals
or that there is no analogy to the fact that Nazis were war criminals
too. What a mess you're in.
But even if eventually
> it is found to be true, I repeat, shit happens in wartime.
The worst "shit" happening in wartime relates to war crimes.
Sometimes
> bad decisions are made. It's happened in every war in history. If
> these events happened, they were quite likely mistakes in judgment by
> a few officers.
The firing of one 155 WP round into a civilian area is a war crime. In
this case many rounds were fired over a couple of weeks. An error in
judgment?? A mistake? Ha! And don't forget the Nuremberg principle.
If this were a matter of policy and the policy was to
> weaponize WP and use it against civilians, the Israelis must be
> amazingly incompetent to have killed only 12.
The incompetence defense! Brilliant.
No, these few
> unconfirmed events were almost certainly mistakes in judgment.
Try Goldstone on the question of whether what we all saw on the TV was
"unconfirmed".
> Mistakes of this kind are of course much more likely to occur when
> dealing with a fighting force that hides in and fights from areas
> densely populated with civilians
It is a crime to use WP against civilians irrespective of whether
militants are interspersed among them.
- I am sure even someone such as you
> can understand that.
Stand up, Ratner. Face the music.
Let's get one thing clear - I am not denying
> that if this handful of events did happen, it should not have.
It's a good start for you to acknowledge Israeli war crimes. They went
on for something like two weeks. The Israelis ignored global protest
while continuing the crimes. Negligence, indeed. Mistake, indeed.
Bottom
> line - we have a creature such as yourself equating a series of three
> unconfirmed events that were probably errors in judgment by a few
> officers and that may have killed 12 people, to a vast policy of
> extermination that killed a few millions of people.
They were war crimes which I hope will result in convictions on the
precedent that Nazi war crimes resulted in convictions. You are at
sea, Ratner.
are equating
> the two because, based on comparison of anecdotal Israeli use during
> nighttime combat of WP in Arab civilian areas three times, that was
> probably not policy, but rather bad individual decisions, and may have
> killed 12 people, and incredibly well-documented German use of gas
> chambers to kill millions in non-combat situations, not as a product
> of battle, but of a policy of extermination, you are using the same
> labels for both the Israelis and Germans: Nazis. Here's what you said:
>
> One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
That was a very good question (!) posed in response to your attempt to
suggest that Israelis aren't war criminals or that they can't be
analogized to other war criminals such as the Nazis because they don't
kill enough people to meet the Nazi threshold. You now understand that
you conflated numbers of dead with the question of criminality. You
can't do that, Ratner. Little Nazis and Big Nazis are both Nazis, just
as Roger Bannister and I were both milers.
> If anyone ever needed absolute proof that you are a monster crazy
with
> hate and have about as much chance of objective analysis of an issue
> as I have of running a 4 minute mile, they now have it. Thank you.
Not to make to fine a point of my analogy argument, I ran a 5 minute
mile on my 30th birthday in 1969. Now remember, you raised the
subject. It's not that I'm Roger Bannister but there's something
analogous in my having posted a respectable personal best too. We were
both milers. We both accomplished something unusual. It's true that he
was a big miler and I was a little miler, but we were were both
milers. Are you awake, Ratner.
The monsters are the ideological killers. The occupiers. The
aggressive thieves of the homelands of others. Miscreants willing to
do anything designed to allow Israel to cleanse and keep the West
Bank, even to the point of putting the American people in great
danger. The monsters are not those of us who shed light on criminal
behavior or who argue by analogy. You're against the wall and trying
to play the Holocaust card. The anti-Semite card. Once again, the
Holocaust took place in Europe. The perps and the victims were
Europeans. Some of the perps were convicted. That's what we want to
see regarding Israeli war criminals. And why not? Palestine and the
Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Dec 5, 9:20 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 4, 11:30 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
>
> Clip
>
> > > Here's some numbers for you. Surely you trust Human Rights Watch!
>
> > Finally. Thank you - that was like pulling teeth.
>
> No it wasn't. You got stuff like this from me early.
If "stuff like this" means that you think they possible numbers killed
by WP, you are either lying or mistaken.
<Yawn> I see yet more blahblah below about "what I didn't understand",
etc. There's only one relevant thing here. It is from the post to
which this post of yours replied. Although you may disagree with my
conclusion about you from it, you have no possibility of refuting it.
- it is simple fact. I'll just cut it and paste it below for ease of
reading:
******
Bottom
line - we have a creature such as yourself equating a series of three
unconfirmed events that were probably errors in judgment by a few
officers and that may have killed 12 people, to a vast policy of
extermination that killed a few millions of people. You are equating
the two because, based on comparison of anecdotal Israeli use during
nighttime combat of WP in Arab civilian areas three times, that was
probably not policy, but rather bad individual decisions, and may have
killed 12 people, and incredibly well-documented German use of gas
chambers to kill millions in non-combat situations, not as a product
of battle, but of a policy of extermination, you are using the same
labels for both the Israelis and Germans: Nazis. Here's what you said:
One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
If anyone ever needed absolute proof that you are a monster crazy with
hate and have about as much chance of objective analysis of an issue
as I have of running a 4 minute mile, they now have it. Thank you.
*******
> ...
>
> read more »
Bolt Upright
"Fish Supper" <li...@sea.com> wrote in message
news:vJKdnQPDYIYl3YTW...@bt.com...
you correctly say, it is a tactic that this creature uses, and it is a
sucker game.
drahcir
Maybe you don't understand what I was laughing at, which you for some
starnge reason snipped away. Here, I'll replace it:
> You have numbers. You just can't use them without making yourself
> VULNERABLE.
LOL!
*********
See, that was funny, because, as I'll remind you below, I proved you a
hateful monster with the numbers you finally supplied - that's hardly
"vulnerable". Let's just allow readers to judge my "vulnerability"
from my post that replied after you finally, after 3 attempts,
supplied the numbers:
*********
Bottom
line - we have a creature such as yourself equating a series of three
unconfirmed events that were probably errors in judgment by a few
officers and that may have killed 12 people, to a vast policy of
extermination that killed a few millions of people. You are equating
the two because, based on comparison of anecdotal Israeli use during
nighttime combat of WP in Arab civilian areas three times, that was
probably not policy, but rather bad individual decisions, and may have
killed 12 people, and incredibly well-documented German use of gas
chambers to kill millions in non-combat situations, not as a product
of battle, but of a policy of extermination, you are using the same
labels for both the Israelis and Germans: Nazis. Here's what you said:
One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute WP?
If anyone ever needed absolute proof that you are a monster crazy with
hate and have about as much chance of objective analysis of an issue
as I have of running a 4 minute mile, they now have it. Thank you.
*********
Does that sound "vulnerable" to you, H?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 5, 1:13 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 5, 9:20 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 4, 11:30 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
>
> > Clip
>
> > > > Here's some numbers for you. Surely you trust Human Rights Watch!
>
> > > Finally. Thank you - that was like pulling teeth.
>
> <Yawn> I see yet more blahblah below about "what I didn't understand",
> etc. There's only one relevant thing here. It is from the post to
> which this post of yours replied. Although you may disagree with my
> conclusion about you from it, you have no possibility of refuting it.
> - it is simple fact. I'll just cut it and paste it below for ease of
> reading:
>
> ******
> Bottom
> line - we have a creature such as yourself equating a series of three
> unconfirmed events that were probably errors in judgment by a few
> officers and that may have killed 12 people, to a vast policy of
> extermination that killed a few millions of people.
They were BOTH, obviously, collections of very serious crimes against
international law. What you're trying to do is to deny Israeli
criminality altogether, to avoid the Zionist regime being lumped in
the overall "war criminal" class which also contains Nazis and others
of the 20th Century whether you like it or not. When you admit that
the Israeli regime has committed many war crimes since 1947-48, you
can THEN, but ONLY THEN, begin your exercise in pointing out
mitigating circumstances and factual differences. I won't have any
problem with that. There ARE mitigating circumstances and factual
differences. In essence, Ratner, you can approach this very big issue
honestly. It would be best for YOU to do that. You'd recover
considerable moral high ground. But it seems that anything having to
do with commonly accepted moral standards is incomprehensible or just
simply hated by you.
Again, you will be welcome to differentiate them on their facts all
you like. Big Nazis, little Nazis, I don't have a dog in that fight.
What I'm doing is showing that Israeli criminality is obvious and
widespread over a period of decades. It has destroyed Israeli
credibility. It militates in favor of compromise and settlement. It
militates in favor of great changes in American policy in the Middle-
East.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 08:59:08 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
>
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 5, 11:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 5, 10:36 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com
>
> >You affect laughter at the strangest times. It's something like the
> >murderer Miss Knox doing a cartwheel in the outer office of the
> >Italian police station when first arrested.
>
> Maybe you don't understand what I was laughing at, which you for some
> starnge reason snipped away. Here, I'll replace it:
>
> > You have numbers. You just can't use them without making yourself
> > VULNERABLE.
>
> LOL!
> *********
>
> See, that was funny, because, as I'll remind you below, I proved you a
> hateful monster with the numbers you finally supplied - that's hardly
> "vulnerable". Let's just allow readers to judge my "vulnerability"
> from my post that replied after you finally, after 3 attempts,
> supplied the numbers:
A few minutes ago I again explained your intellectual and moral
vulnerability when pursuing this course. You continue to pretend
incomprehension and struggle to change the subject. When you've
summoned the guts to face the fundamental fact of Israeli criminality,
I will be happy even to assist you in your efforts to differentiate
the relative 'heinousness' of different crimes. But first you've got
to acknowledge the fundamental truth of Israeli criminality.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Dec 7, 9:29 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 08:59:08 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
>
> > <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >On Dec 5, 11:05 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Dec 5, 10:36 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com
>
> > >You affect laughter at the strangest times. It's something like the
> > >murderer Miss Knox doing a cartwheel in the outer office of the
> > >Italian police station when first arrested.
>
> > Maybe you don't understand what I was laughing at, which you for some
> > starnge reason snipped away. Here, I'll replace it:
>
> > > You have numbers. You just can't use them without making yourself
> > > VULNERABLE.
>
> > LOL!
> > *********
>
> > See, that was funny, because, as I'll remind you below, I proved you a
> > hateful monster with the numbers you finally supplied - that's hardly
> > "vulnerable". Let's just allow readers to judge my "vulnerability"
> > from my post that replied after you finally, after 3 attempts,
> > supplied the numbers:
>
> A few minutes ago I again explained your intellectual and moral
> vulnerability when pursuing this course. You continue to pretend
> incomprehension and struggle to change the subject.
LOL! You "explained" - translation: you tried to bullshit your way out
of being proven a hate-filled monster. The only vulnerability insofar
as I am concerned is in your rather overactive imagination. How silly
of you to think that someone of your caliber can actually convince
anyone, except perhaps yourself, that white is black. As I have
repeatedly stated, the facts are the facts, and readers can draw their
own conclusions about your using an identical label, "Nazi", for two
such disparate situations as the handful of as yet unproven incidents
of Israeli misuse of WP during battle that may have resulted in 12
deaths and the systematic annihilation of millions of European Jews
and others by Germans in gas chambers.
When you've
> summoned the guts to face the fundamental fact of Israeli criminality,
We're not talking about "Israeli criminality", you moron. Had you
labeled the Israelis "criminals", you'd be guilty only of condemning
them before they have been proven guilty - on the scale of crimes of
which I have proven YOU guilty, that would be a rather minor offense.
But you didn't label the Israelis criminals, you labeled them Nazis, a
very specific subset of criminals. And now again with the "guts" -
it's just more masturbation, H, "vulnerable", "guts", it's all
bravado. Everyone knows you are the most cowardly person on this board
- you have fled discussions more than anyone here.
> I will be happy even to assist you in your efforts to differentiate
> the relative 'heinousness' of different crimes.
Translation: you have no refutation for my argument.
> But first you've got
> to acknowledge the fundamental truth of Israeli criminality.
You're in lala land, H. The alleged crime in this discussion, the
Israeli use of WP during combat resulting in 12 deaths, has yet to be
proven.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Dec 5, 11:55 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 5, 1:13 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 5, 9:20 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 4, 11:30 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
>
> > > Clip
>
> > > > > Here's some numbers for you. Surely you trust Human Rights Watch!
>
> > > > Finally. Thank you - that was like pulling teeth.
>
> > <Yawn> I see yet more blahblah below about "what I didn't understand",
> > etc. There's only one relevant thing here. It is from the post to
> > which this post of yours replied. Although you may disagree with my
> > conclusion about you from it, you have no possibility of refuting it.
> > - it is simple fact. I'll just cut it and paste it below for ease of
> > reading:
>
> > ******
> > Bottom
> > line - we have a creature such as yourself equating a series of three
> > unconfirmed events that were probably errors in judgment by a few
> > officers and that may have killed 12 people, to a vast policy of
> > extermination that killed a few millions of people.
>
> They were BOTH, obviously, collections of very serious crimes against
> international law.
Thank you. You are so stupid you have just unwittingly confirmed my
analysis of you. You have YET AGAIN equated the alleged, unconfirmed
misuse of WP by as yet unnamed, unindicted, and unconvicted
individuals that may have killed 12 people in the heat of battle, to
the well-documented Nazis policy of extermination killing of millions
in gas chambers, by calling them both "serious crimes against
international law".
What you're trying to do is to deny Israeli
> criminality altogether, to avoid the Zionist regime being lumped in
> the overall "war criminal" class which also contains Nazis and others
> of the 20th Century whether you like it or not.
LOL! "What *I* am trying to do"! I think the group does not require my
commentary on the above. You poor, sick creature - you simply cannot
see yourself.
I see yet more mounds of irrelevant HHWBabble below, so please forgive
my departure.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 7, 2:43 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
Clip
>
> > A few minutes ago I again explained your intellectual and moral
> > vulnerability when pursuing this course. You continue to pretend
> > incomprehension and struggle to change the subject.
I'm going to delete everything here that is merely ad hominem so as to
focus on the issue:
Clip
As I have
> repeatedly stated, the facts are the facts, and readers can draw their
> own conclusions about your using an identical label, "Nazi", for two
> such disparate situations as the handful of as yet unproven incidents
> of Israeli misuse of WP during battle that may have resulted in 12
> deaths and the systematic annihilation of millions of European Jews
> and others by Germans in gas chambers.
Many in the Israeli leadership beginning in 1947-48 and continuing to
the present have placed themselves within the same fundamental
category as were the responsible Nazis: criminals under international
law. You can make all the differentiations you like as to types of
crimes against international law, e.g., genocide vs. crimes against
humanity--ethnic cleansing, war crimes, etc., and you can complain
that no Israeli perp has yet been convicted, but you can't escape the
argument at the level of simple common sense. There is a class of Nazi
war criminals. There is a class of Israeli war criminals. Combine them
and they form a single, joint class. That doesn't mean that the class
can't be broken down further into discrete categories. Of course it
can. But I'm not going to go into that with you unless you admit that
Israelis have committed crimes against Palestinians, grave crimes.
That's the necessary condition for going forward. At present you're
still denying the Naqba. It's theoretically conceivable that you could
be making that denial based on abysmal ignorance, but it's very
unlikely. So I must attribute it to intellectual dishonesty.
> >When you've summoned the guts to face the fundamental fact of Israeli criminality,
>
> We're not talking about "Israeli criminality".
Of course we are. The whole world is. Zionism is an ideology which
requires criminality and the use of force to accomplish its goals and
its implementation has made criminals of hundreds of individuals in
the Israeli leadership. This is so obvious that it shouldn't even be
necessary to mention it in late 2009.
Had you
> labeled the Israelis "criminals", you'd be guilty only of condemning
> them before they have been proven guilty -
I don't now and don't think I have ever labeled "the" Israelis as
anything. "Our greatest ally" perhaps. Haha. This is manipulative on
your part. Criminality is found in individuals, not nations. Goldhagen
is a hate-filled polemicist.
This is politics and common sense. It is history, not a legal
proceeding. In this very conversation you are implicitly labeling
Hitler as a criminal, and I agree with you, of course, but he was
never "proven guilty" in a trial. Conviction isn't necessary in the
court of history.
on the scale of crimes of
> which I have proven YOU guilty, that would be a rather minor offense.
Hilarious. You have proved me "guilty" of something? What is it? It
can only relate to a matter of speech. Come on, spell it out. What
speech am "guilty" of uttering? 'Lese majesty' perhaps? I've dared to
criticize Zionists? I dare to describe IDF use of WP against civilians
as criminal? You bet I did. Somebody gave the orders. It went on for
two weeks. And the deaths of the 400 or so innocent children of Gaza?
You bet I do. Criminal, Ratner.
> But you didn't label the Israelis criminals, you labeled them Nazis, a
> very specific subset of criminals.
I didn't label "the Israelis" anything. Did I label Uri Avnery? DId I
label Shlomo Sand? Did I label the Israelis who work courageously at
B'tselem and the rest of the non-violent resistance to Israeli
government violence? Do you imagine me an admirer of Goldhagen who
labeled "the Germans" as Hitler's Willing Executioners? Certainly not,
Ratner. It's the sort of thing you revel in; you're that sort of
"labeler," but not me. I care too much about the moral parameters of
this mess to join you in the gutter.
And now again with the "guts" -
> it's just more masturbation, H, "vulnerable", "guts", it's all
> bravado.
Presuming so for the sake of the argument, is bravado a crime? And as
to guts, at the moral and intellectual levels that's exactly your
deficiency. You could acknowledge the brutality and criminality and
join me in attempting to find a solution which protects Israel's
survival and future prosperity. But no. You're still denying the
expulsions of the Naqba for chrissake. The whole world knows better.
What the hell's wrong with you, Ratner? You have a powerful sense for
what you mistakenly think are Israeli interests, but can't be brought
to acknowledge even the slightest obligations on her part. Can you
imagine me being such a slavish servant of US policy? We're very
different. And don't bolt out and buy a moral compas just anywhere.
Get one made in Scandinavia or Switzerland, certainly not one made in
those charming new West Bank "settlements." It won't work right.
Everyone knows you are the most cowardly person on this board
> - you have fled discussions more than anyone here.
Am I fleeing here? You haven't even responded to my arguments. You
almost never do. You just attack me personally and do so displaying
greater and greater anxiety. You constitute a micro-disaster for the
future of Zionist influence here in the US.
> > I will be happy even to assist you in your efforts to differentiate
> > the relative 'heinousness' of different crimes.
>
> Translation: you have no refutation for my argument.
That was a bona fide offer, Ratner. I'm far better equipped than you
to discuss the differences between genocide and ethnic cleansing and
their effects on the differing judgments we should come to regarding
specific conduct in this context--and I'll do it whenever you like
after you acknowledge the Naqba happened and represented a large
collection of criminal acts on the part of Israelis--not of "the"
Israelis mind you, but Israelis nonetheless, Zionist Israelis.
> > But first you've got
> > to acknowledge the fundamental truth of Israeli criminality in it's handling of the Palestinians.
And, Ratner, I'm no more here accusing all Israelis of criminality
than I would be in discussing the potential for American criminality
leading up to the invasion of Iraq. Nations are never criminals. Only
individuals. You can't convict a nation state of anything--and
certainly not entire populations either.
>
> You're in lala land, H. The alleged crime in this discussion, the
> Israeli use of WP during combat resulting in 12 deaths, has yet to be
> proven.
Call it alleged if you like. You can use such legalisms in your
desperate effort to shut down uncomfortable analysis of Israeli war
crimes. It won't work. Nor will your forgetting of the other massacre
victims.
You seem to have the impression that your tribe are of superior
intelligence. Let me ask you, if you could go back in time and erase
the decision to attack Gaza, would you do it? After all it has been a
disaster for Israel.
coaste...@yahoo.com
You don't analyze anything. You hurl insults and hope they will
prejudice your opponent in the eyes of the readership.
There was no actual battle, Ratner. The heat you refer to arose from
malice. Seven Israelis died, four from friendly fire. I haven't read
of a single significant infantry engagement. It was a massacre. As it
went on for weeks it was obviously premeditated. The planners
accomplished exactly what they planned. You can hardly deny that the
matter is serious and that the crimes we saw taking place on
television and on the web were serious. Serious crimes form a
category. It's called felonies. By that analogy, Nazi crimes and
Zionist crimes are all serious. I'm sorry to have to break the news to
you but when the Israeli war crimes defendants finally get to the
Hague they won't be cutting deals for pleas to misdemeanors.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Dec 7, 4:24 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 7, 2:43 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
>
> Clip
>
>
>
> > > A few minutes ago I again explained your intellectual and moral
> > > vulnerability when pursuing this course. You continue to pretend
> > > incomprehension and struggle to change the subject.
>
> I'm going to delete everything here that is merely ad hominem so as to
> focus on the issue:
>
> Clip
>
> As I have
>
> > repeatedly stated, the facts are the facts, and readers can draw their
> > own conclusions about your using an identical label, "Nazi", for two
> > such disparate situations as the handful of as yet unproven incidents
> > of Israeli misuse of WP during battle that may have resulted in 12
> > deaths and the systematic annihilation of millions of European Jews
> > and others by Germans in gas chambers.
What we have below is, you guessed it, yet more flailing around by our
H to try to explain away this:
One can't be a Nazi without using gas? Not even if you substitute
WP?
There is nothing more to say. HHW, because every element of his
character is despicable, is also a coward, now trying "explain" his
statement. His statement is clear for all to see. H, I have no
interest in your pathetic attempt below to justify what you said. Any
reasonable person can see it for the bullshit that it is.
>
> Many in the Israeli leadership beginning in 1947-48 and continuing to
> the present have placed themselves within the same fundamental
> category as were the responsible Nazis: criminals under international
> law. You can make all the differentiations you like as to types of
> crimes against international law, e.g., genocide vs. crimes against
> humanity--ethnic cleansing, war crimes, etc., and you can complain
> that no Israeli perp has yet been convicted, but you can't escape the
> argument at the level of simple common sense. There is a class of Nazi
> war criminals. There is a class of Israeli war criminals. Combine them
> and they form a single, joint class. That doesn't mean that the class
> can't be broken down further into discrete categories. Of course it
> can. But I'm not going to go into that with you unless you admit that
> Israelis have committed crimes against Palestinians, grave crimes.
> That's the necessary condition for going forward. At present you're
> still denying the Naqba. It's theoretically conceivable that you could
> be making that denial based on abysmal ignorance, but it's very
> unlikely. So I must attribute it to intellectual dishonesty.
>
> > >When you've summoned the guts to face the fundamental fact of Israeli criminality,
>
> > We're not talking about "Israeli criminality".
>
> Of course we are.
Strategic insertion by H - it's just another way he lies. The entire
statement of mine was:
We're not talking about "Israeli criminality", you moron. Had you
labeled the Israelis "criminals", you'd be guilty only of condemning
them before they have been proven guilty - on the scale of crimes of
which I have proven YOU guilty, that would be a rather minor offense.
But you didn't label the Israelis criminals, you labeled them Nazis, a
very specific subset of criminals.
As one can plainly see, the below DOES NOT ADDRESS the distinction
between "criminal" and "Nazi" - what more can one expect from a liar?
The whole world is. Zionism is an ideology which
> requires criminality and the use of force to accomplish its goals and
> its implementation has made criminals of hundreds of individuals in
> the Israeli leadership. This is so obvious that it shouldn't even be
> necessary to mention it in late 2009.
>
> Had you
>
> > labeled the Israelis "criminals", you'd be guilty only of condemning
> > them before they have been proven guilty -
>
> I don't now and don't think I have ever labeled "the" Israelis as
> anything.
And as we see here, this reprehensible lowlife now not only does not
have the courage to admit what he did, he is so senile he thinks he
can convince anyone that he never labeled the Israelis as anything!
"Our greatest ally" perhaps. Haha. This is manipulative on
> your part. Criminality is found in individuals, not nations. Goldhagen
> is a hate-filled polemicist.
>
> This is politics and common sense. It is history, not a legal
> proceeding. In this very conversation you are implicitly labeling
> Hitler as a criminal, and I agree with you, of course, but he was
> never "proven guilty" in a trial. Conviction isn't necessary in the
> court of history.
>
> on the scale of crimes of
>
> > which I have proven YOU guilty, that would be a rather minor offense.
>
> Hilarious. You have proved me "guilty" of something? What is it? It
> can only relate to a matter of speech. Come on, spell it out. What
> speech am "guilty" of uttering? 'Lese majesty' perhaps? I've dared to
> criticize Zionists? I dare to describe IDF use of WP against civilians
> as criminal? You bet I did. Somebody gave the orders. It went on for
> two weeks. And the deaths of the 400 or so innocent children of Gaza?
> You bet I do. Criminal, Ratner.
>
> > But you didn't label the Israelis criminals, you labeled them Nazis, a
> > very specific subset of criminals.
>
> I didn't label "the Israelis" anything.
Whoa, man, you are one pitiful creature. Let's just let readers decide
precisely what variety you are for again trying the laughable ploy
above.
Actually, no, for once you haven't. True to form, you have made the
wrong decision - fleeing this particular thread would save you some
trouble, but then again, the group would not have the fun of seeing
you flail.
You haven't even responded to my arguments.
Your arguments? Just whom are you trying to kid? You have no argument.
What you said is what you said. It's over, H, and your continued
flailing is about as useful as that of a small fish in a big rowboat.
But much funnier. A scan down the page reveals nothing but HHWBabble,
so I will sign off until the next diatribe attempting to mask what he
said arrives from this thing.
drahcir
First of all, you have presented no "analogy" - look up the word in
the dictionary. Second, all the above does is yet again reaffirm your
equating the unconfirmed Israeli use of WP in the heat of battle (of
course, now you want to maintain that there was no battle) that may
have killed 12 people to the years-long policy of extermination by gas
employed by the Nazis that killed millions. You started by calling the
Israelis Nazis. Then you called both Israelis and Nazis "criminals".
Now you call both "felons". I don't really care what you call them -
if you equate them, you're crazy with hate - it's really not very
complicated, H - not worth all of your silly. flailing explanations.
Aaronovich
Why do you lie. The use of WP by the Jew was hardly able to be missed. It
CAN be used as a smoke screen to help protect soldiers on the ground, but
Israel used it in Gaza a long time BEFORE they had committed ground troops
to the invasion.
You are a deluded liar, Mister backward Richard.
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Cite, please.
Fish Supper
Everyone knows you are the most cowardly person on this board
- you have fled discussions more than anyone here.
***
truly a coffee spluttering moment.
shall I list here the threads from which you have fled like the IDF in front
of Hezbollah?
1. Israeli attacks on Ambulances
2. Israeli use of White Phosphorous
3. proof that Jews have higher IQs
4. discrimination against arab citizens in israel
5. Israeli use of human shields
6. expulsion of Palestinians and massacres of same
7. http://media-islam.or.id/2009/11/16/video-gaza-the-new-holocaust/ from
58 seconds in
8. - 14 Half a dozen others that I would have to google to remeber.
Every time you are presented with incontravertible evidence -whoosh, you
disappear.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ae6ccf2b-3fee-4220...@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 7, 2:43 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
>
> Everyone knows you are the most cowardly person on this board
> - you have fled discussions more than anyone here.
>
> ***
>
> truly a coffee spluttering moment.
>
> shall I list here the threads from which you have fled like the IDF in front
> of Hezbollah?
>
> 1. Israeli attacks on Ambulances
> 2. Israeli use of White Phosphorous
> 3. proof that Jews have higher IQs
> 4. discrimination against arab citizens in israel
> 5. Israeli use of human shields
> 6. expulsion of Palestinians and massacres of same
> 58 seconds in
> 8. - 14 Half a dozen others that I would have to google to remeber.
>
> Every time you are presented with incontravertible evidence -whoosh, you
> disappear.
One of his unique strategies has been to flee one thread where he has
taken a licking and immediately open another on the same subject. He
would rather not have the readers following his bloody footprints
every time they need to get up to date.
Aaronovich
>Cite, please.
It was on television on a daily basis, Mister backward Richard. Clips are
available on Youtube. At least some are. The Jew removed many.
Why do you all the time screech about needing cites when you provide none
yourself? I have noticed your demanding "cites" is closely aligned with your
desperation when unable to contradict the message.
coaste...@yahoo.com
From the Guardian:
Human Rights Watch said the Israeli military often used the weapon
even in areas where there were no Israeli troops on the ground, which
it said, "strongly suggests that the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] was
not using the munition for its obscurant qualities but rather for its
incendiary effect".
Fish Supper
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4c5ee4fb-9a05-4581...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
***
isn't English a wonderful language? I read your post and was able, simply by
inflection, to give the word 'unique' the true depth of loathing and
contempt that you felt when you typed it. Which other language enables one
to do that?
As for Dicky, I wouldn't rule it out that he does this, not out of
duplicity, but because he truly has forgotten that he's just had his arse
handed to him - he does, after all, have the brain of a trout.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> One of his unique strategies has been to flee one thread where he has
> taken a licking and immediately open another on the same subject. He
> would rather not have the readers following his bloody footprints
> every time they need to get up to date.
> Isn't English a wonderful language? I read your post and was able, simply by
> inflection, to give the word 'unique' the true depth of loathing and
> contempt that you felt when you typed it. Which other language enables one
> to do that?
There is none. But it's a two edged sword. Didn't Dr. Johnson once
observe that oats in England sustain the horses but in Scotland
sustain the people? How did you overcome that without painting
yourselves blue and summoning up the ghost of Wallace?
> As for Dicky, I wouldn't rule it out that he does this, not out of
> duplicity, but because he truly has forgotten that he's just had his arse
> handed to him - he does, after all, have the brain of a trout.
We think pretty highly of our trout. A bottom feeder perhaps?