Slavery in muslime Mauritania
cornholio
Slavery in Mauritania
Emancipating the Free
By Omar Ghanem
Freelance Writer — Egypt
Image
Human rights groups claim that the number of slaves in Mauritania
could reach up to 600,000 slaves.
With the sun of August 8, 2007, setting over Nouakchott, a question
lingers in the horizon: Will this day be remembered in Mauritanian
history? The parliament of this northwest African country has finally
passed the long-anticipated bill criminalizing the practice of
slavery.
Mauritania is one of the few countries — according to Anti-Slavery
International — where slavery, though officially banned in 1981, is
still visible as a social practice. This phenomenon has drawn a lot of
national and international attention with culminating calls for the
government to engage effectively in efforts to curtail slavery.
Looking beyond the facade, it becomes obvious that slavery is a
chronic problem for the Mauritanians that will not be plucked easily.
It is deeply rooted within the structure of the society, as it is
closely tied to the ethnic composition of the country.
Mauritania is broadly decomposed into two core communities: the Moors,
who constitute the majority, and the black, ethnic tribes like the
Soninke and the Poular.
It is within the Moors community that the problem lies. The Moors are
made up of two groups: the white Moors — light-skinned, mainly Arab
and Berber in origin — and the black Moors or the Haratine — the slave
descendants. The white Moors are the politically dominant class
whereas the Haratine, who are African in origin, grew side-by-side
with them, yet as their slaves.
The emergence of a whole class that is born out of slavery (i.e. the
Haratine) is what builds the complexity of the phenomenon. It does not
only show in the blunt form of slavery, where a slave is the
"property" of his or her master, but also in slavery-like practices.
Further, the dividing line between the two is blurry, which only adds
to the obscurity of the problem.
"Historically, it is unclear [how slavery evolved in Mauritania],"
Sayyed Ahmed Ould Bab, a Mauritanian journalist, told IslamOnline.net.
But what is certain is that some weak African tribes were dominated
centuries ago to form today's slave class, the Haratine. "They are
victims, if not to slavery by itself, then to its aftereffect,"
explained Ould Bab.
Chains
Mauritania is one of the few countries where slavery, though
officially banned in 1981, is still visible as a social practice.
Not all Haratine are enslaved in the strict definition of the word, in
the sense of being "owned" by a master; theoretically, many of them
are free. However, being raised in a class that is looked down upon as
slaves, Haratines were bound to remain within their social chains. In
an interview with IslamOnline.net, Ahmed Vall Ould Dine, media
spokesman for the Mauritanian Human Rights Watch, affirms that
"slavery is practiced due to financial attachment and as a kind of
inherited social norm rather than enslavement by whip and coercion."
"Slaves tend to develop very close relations with their masters; the
freed ones, who are poor and have inherited nothing from their
parents, chose to remain under the auspices of their ex-masters as
they provide them with basic necessities of life," explained Ould
Dine.
It is the psychological chains that keep many slaves in captivity.
Although some are not "owned" by others, they still consider
themselves slaves as they are convinced that they have inherited this
social status from their parents.
Thus, it is difficult to distinguish between the status of a slave and
a freed slave; both exist side by side and suffer similar
discrimination and difficulties. Among these difficulties, according
to Ould Dine, are economic hardships and lack of education that
combine to make them a dependent class. This causes an "inferiority
complex" that psychologically hinders them from pursuing better status
and ascending through the social hierarchy.
Suffering Exploitation
"Salves are victims, if not to slavery by itself, then to its
aftereffect." — A Mauritanian journalist
Psychological repercussions are not the only problems slaves in
Mauritania suffer from; "every now and then, cases of slaves who
suffer and complain from working without wage and sexual abuse come to
light," Ould Bab asserts.
Alghabia Bent Hartan's situation is one of these. She was deterred
from marriage by Mohammed Ould Ahmed Bab, threatening any prospect
groom, under the claim that she is his property, which gives him the
"exclusive right to her." Bent Hartan filled a case against him that
was suspended by the district attorney under the pretense of lack of
evidence.
Nouakchott News daily reported another case in which a women named
Taw`a Bent Ahmida was sexually exploited by her alleged master, Ould
Ahmed. He convinced her that she would be granted Paradise if she
accepts having sexual discourse with him. She suffered pregnancy
symptoms while working — without wage — for her master, who told her
parents that he had her married to a person of great importance.
But with the beginning of police investigation, he confessed that he
is the one who had a relation with her. After she gave birth to her
child, Ould Ahmed renounced Bent Ahmid and sent her with the newborn
to her parents. Later, Bent Ahmid got married and gave birth to four
children. Ould Ahmed, however, sneaked back into her life demanding
from the husband to divorce her. He offered freeing one of her sons
for each year of work with no compensation at his service. The husband
refused and divorced the wife after she had agreed on the deal (Ould
Bab).
Escaping slavery is not an easy task. Those who sought leaving their
masters are barred and severely punished. Even those who are freed and
were able to overcome economic hardships remain tied up to their ex-
masters. According to Amnesty International report "Mauritania: A
Future Free From Slavery," issued in 2002, "family which has enslaved
[a] person has still been able to demand services of the person, who
was enslaved, at a later date when necessary or to appropriate their
goods when they die."
The role played by human rights nongovernmental organizations (NGOs)
is still limited. According to Ould Dine, the NGOs' main role has been
reaching out to those belonging to the slave class and trying to
convince them that they do have rights. However, Ould Bab criticized
their role for being limited to shedding light on cases of extreme
slavery and exploitation, yet without providing real social support
for salves.
A New Day?
The 1981 law "did not provide a clear depiction of the phenomenon nor
[mechanism] to incriminate and curb it." — Mauritania's Prime Minister
Lack of support from the government contributed to the aggravation of
the problem. Pre-military coup (of 2005) regimes have dealt
sensitively with the issue, according to Ould Dine. They insisted on
denying the existence of slavery, claiming that it is only the
aftermath of slavery that is present.
Slavery in Mauritania was officially banned in 1981. However, the law
did not provide efficient mechanisms to eradicate slavery and the
practice remained intact as the government stuck to the stance of
denial.
The events took a different turn, however, with the democratically
elected government taking office in 2007. The enormity of the slavery
problem was acknowledged, and the introduction of the new slavery bill
was a manifestation. Analysts attribute this to the role the Haratine
vote played in lifting President Sidi Ould Cheikh Abdallahi to power.
He was openly supported by Masoud Ould Boulkheir, a descendant of the
Haratine slave class and the current speaker of the National Assembly.
The aim of the new law is to strictly define slavery and to
efficiently criminalize and combat the phenomenon. Prime Minster Zain
Weld Zedan explained that while advancing the new bill in parliament
in June 25, 2007, the 1981 Law "did not provide a clear depiction of
the phenomenon nor [mechanism] to incriminate and curb it" (Ould Bab).
The success of the new law is challenging. The intricacy of the
problem, as it is a society-embedded tradition, and the inability of
slaves to escape the vicious cycle of servitude imply that more than
just a law is needed. Concurrent efforts from all segments of the
society ought to be mustered in order to put an end to this inherited
social status and its repercussions. Only then August 8 would be
remembered as the day of emancipation for Mauritania's slaves.
**************************************
Gee, slavery is illegal but there are still 600,000 slaves (20% of the
population)? I guess
they're not trying hard enough. It's interesting to note that the
slavery seems to be
along racial lines to. I can't help but notice the LACK of outcry
amongst the worldwide
muslime community.
cornholio
The Long Shadow Of Slavery In Mauritania
The Islamic Republic of Mauritania's tradition of chattel slavery is
back in the news this week.
A special report issued by Gulnara Shahinian, the first United Nations
"Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of slavery", reveals how
little progress has been made in ending slavery within the borders of
that West African nation.
When a new government came to power in 2007, there were attempts under
President Sidi Ould Cheikh Abdallahi to pass legislation with
sufficient leverage to finally, finally, start getting serious about
breaking the chains of slavery in Mauritania. The light of that faint
hope flickered in the storm of the country's 2008 military coup, and
here we are a year later with the shame intact: people in Mauritania,
from the day of their birth, continue to be other people's property.
An estimated 20% of the people of Mauritania are considered things,
not people...
... for they are slaves.
Against this background, the rulers of Mauritania are accused this
week of perpetuating the cultural tradition chained to slavery itself:
turning a blind eye to its existence.
Slavery in modern times has been documented in Mauritania by many
local and foreign human rights groups and the UN for decades. Most
Mauritanian governments, stemming from the military elite, have headed
policies of denial regarding slavery, often criminalising
organisations fighting slavery or speaking about it to foreign media.
...
Since the 2008 coup, however, civil society has again been limited
in its freedom and the military government has shown little interest
in fighting slavery and helping slaves to be freed.
The UN's Ms Shahinian confirms that slavery continues to be a
problem. "In my visits to communities I met with people who told me
that they had been victims of slavery practices such as serfdom and
domestic servitude. These people had fled slavery and also told the
stories of those they had left behind," she reports from her
Mauritania visit.
...
The UN Special Rapporteur urged Mauritanian authorities to do more
to address slavery. While the 2007 anti-slavery law was still in
place, little is done to implement it, she noted between the lines.
"In order for victims to be encouraged to come forward, I recommend
that the 2007 slavery law include provisions that provide for victim
assistance and socio-economic programmes for their reintegration into
society," stressed Ms Shahinian.
Enslaved Mauritanians still have little incentives to come
forward, even risking being sent back to their masters by local
police.
Ms Shahinian also urged the military government to bring back
civil society into the process to fight slavery, as done by the
toppled government. "The national strategy to combat slavery should be
developed by different stakeholders from the government, local and
international NGOs, political parties, religious leaders, trade
unions, UN agencies and the donor community," she urged.
Finally, Ms Shahinian found the 2007 law too vague in its
definition of slavery, as many master-servant dependencies - often
encompassing former slavery bonds - fell short of inclusion in the
anti-slavery policy. "In order for the judiciary to effectively use
this law, I would strongly recommend that the law be amended to
contain a clearer definition of slavery and socio-economic programmes
which would act as an incentive for victims to bring cases before the
law," Ms Shahinian advised.
One of the abolitionist organizations active within Mauritania is the
beleaguered SOS Esclaves. To understand a problem in macro, it's
sometimes of service to examine it at a micro level. Towards this end,
last year I translated a French television documentary I had found
online, which followed members of SOS Esclaves in their quest to free
a single Mauritanian slave. The sequential videos of that haunting
documentary have since been taken offline, but the translations I made
still stand on their own as a sad testament to the scale of the
tragedy being confronted, the scope of the difficulty in bringing
relief to even a single soul in torment, and the degree of faith
required to persevere in the belief that there can be such things as
happy endings to this eternal problem, given the cruel indifference
that persists hand-in-hand with the shadow of slavery.
Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF
thank you for your informative article.
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.
"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.
"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.
"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.
"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.
"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.
"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor
general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.
"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.
"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.
"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott
Seon Ferguson
slaves.
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b1a3b06d-bbee-40c4...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1187593736807&pagename=Zone-English-Muslim_Affairs%2FMAELayout
>
> Slavery in Mauritania
>
> Emancipating the Free
>
> By Omar Ghanem
>
> Freelance Writer � Egypt
>
>
> Image
>
> Human rights groups claim that the number of slaves in Mauritania
> could reach up to 600,000 slaves.
> With the sun of August 8, 2007, setting over Nouakchott, a question
> lingers in the horizon: Will this day be remembered in Mauritanian
> history? The parliament of this northwest African country has finally
> passed the long-anticipated bill criminalizing the practice of
> slavery.
>
> Mauritania is one of the few countries � according to Anti-Slavery
> International � where slavery, though officially banned in 1981, is
> still visible as a social practice. This phenomenon has drawn a lot of
> national and international attention with culminating calls for the
> government to engage effectively in efforts to curtail slavery.
>
> Looking beyond the facade, it becomes obvious that slavery is a
> chronic problem for the Mauritanians that will not be plucked easily.
> It is deeply rooted within the structure of the society, as it is
> closely tied to the ethnic composition of the country.
>
> Mauritania is broadly decomposed into two core communities: the Moors,
> who constitute the majority, and the black, ethnic tribes like the
> Soninke and the Poular.
>
> It is within the Moors community that the problem lies. The Moors are
> made up of two groups: the white Moors � light-skinned, mainly Arab
> and Berber in origin � and the black Moors or the Haratine � the slave
> aftereffect." � A Mauritanian journalist
>
> Psychological repercussions are not the only problems slaves in
> Mauritania suffer from; "every now and then, cases of slaves who
> suffer and complain from working without wage and sexual abuse come to
> light," Ould Bab asserts.
>
> Alghabia Bent Hartan's situation is one of these. She was deterred
> from marriage by Mohammed Ould Ahmed Bab, threatening any prospect
> groom, under the claim that she is his property, which gives him the
> "exclusive right to her." Bent Hartan filled a case against him that
> was suspended by the district attorney under the pretense of lack of
> evidence.
>
> Nouakchott News daily reported another case in which a women named
> Taw`a Bent Ahmida was sexually exploited by her alleged master, Ould
> Ahmed. He convinced her that she would be granted Paradise if she
> accepts having sexual discourse with him. She suffered pregnancy
> symptoms while working � without wage � for her master, who told her
> [mechanism] to incriminate and curb it." � Mauritania's Prime Minister
Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF
> They are only following the ethics of their beloved prophet who also
> kept slaves.
Do you mean like Abuk Lual Wek in this article?
cornholio
> They are only following the ethics of their beloved prophet who also kept
> slaves.
>
Yet you continue to tell me that people who subscribe to the
ideology that bumhammad represented can be "good" people.
Can nazis/ne0-nazis therefore be "good" people by extension
of the same concept?
cornholio
<""wassim.noujwas\"@yahoo.com is a
tool .">
wrote:
> Seon Ferguson wrote:
> > They are only following the ethics of their beloved prophet who also
> > kept slaves.
>
> Do you mean like Abuk Lual Wek in this article?
>
>
Ugliness seems to be part and parcel of the pislamic faith.
It's interesting that Kanga never even attempts to refute/defend the
various muslime atrocities being committed across the world in the
name of bumhammad and allah. I'm surprised the slavery of blacks
practiced in muslime Mauritania didn't get a rise out of him though.
Seon Ferguson
"Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " <""wassim.noujwas\"@yahoo.com is a
tool
."> wrote in message news:0323ae48$0$1341$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>> They are only following the ethics of their beloved prophet who also kept
>> slaves.
>
> Do you mean like Abuk Lual Wek in this article?
>
> http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3091:what-sudanese-women-wear&catid=194&Itemid=68
>
Yep.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c781bc1b-fbfb-49e0...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
No I never said it was a good ideology just that not every Muslim follows
the Koran 100%.
If a Christian or Jew followed the Bible/Torah 100% as a literal word of God
they would be just as bad as the Muslim jihadists. They would kill gay
people and witches, they would kill anyone who works on the Sabbath, they
would probably still be slaughtering people so they could conquer their
land.
But they don't. All Jews and Christians pick and choose which verses to
believe in now just like (thankfully) most Muslims.
cornholio
> "cornholio" <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c781bc1b-fbfb-49e0...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 30, 12:20 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> They are only following the ethics of their beloved prophet who also kept
> >> slaves.
>
> > Yet you continue to tell me that people who subscribe to the
> > ideology that bumhammad represented can be "good" people.
>
> > Can nazis/ne0-nazis therefore be "good" people by extension
> > of the same concept?
>
> No I never said it was a good ideology just that not every Muslim follows
> the Koran 100%.
>
> If a Christian or Jew followed the Bible/Torah 100% as a literal word of God
> they would be just as bad as the Muslim jihadists. They would kill gay
> people and witches, they would kill anyone who works on the Sabbath, they
> would probably still be slaughtering people so they could conquer their
> land.
>
I could argue that Yeshua didn't advocate any of the above. He did
say: "judge not, lest ye be judged".
> But they don't. All Jews and Christians pick and choose which verses to
> believe in now just like (thankfully) most Muslims.
Here's where I don't agree with you, the evidence I've seen/read/heard
is
that MOST muslimes DO follow the koran shitehead. That's why every
muslime fuck country on the face of this earth persecutes people of
other
faiths. I haven't noticed any islamopigs protesting the persecution of
kufars lately either shitehead.
Like I said the islamopigs will roll you up like a old, natty carpet.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:288fb889-1b2d-4c0b...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 30, 1:50 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "cornholio" <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:c781bc1b-fbfb-49e0...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Nov 30, 12:20 am, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> They are only following the ethics of their beloved prophet who also
>> >> kept
>> >> slaves.
>>
>> > Yet you continue to tell me that people who subscribe to the
>> > ideology that bumhammad represented can be "good" people.
>>
>> > Can nazis/ne0-nazis therefore be "good" people by extension
>> > of the same concept?
>>
>> No I never said it was a good ideology just that not every Muslim follows
>> the Koran 100%.
>>
>> If a Christian or Jew followed the Bible/Torah 100% as a literal word of
>> God
>> they would be just as bad as the Muslim jihadists. They would kill gay
>> people and witches, they would kill anyone who works on the Sabbath, they
>> would probably still be slaughtering people so they could conquer their
>> land.
>>
>
> I could argue that Yeshua didn't advocate any of the above. He did
> say: "judge not, lest ye be judged".
>
If he existed he also said he came to fulfill the OT prophecies. But at
least he never said kill the unbelievers. He said love thy enemy.
>> But they don't. All Jews and Christians pick and choose which verses to
>> believe in now just like (thankfully) most Muslims.
>
> Here's where I don't agree with you, the evidence I've seen/read/heard
> is
> that MOST muslimes DO follow the koran shitehead. That's why every
> muslime fuck country on the face of this earth persecutes people of
> other
> faiths. I haven't noticed any islamopigs protesting the persecution of
> kufars lately either shitehead.
>
> Like I said the islamopigs will roll you up like a old, natty carpet.
>
Of course they all follow the Koran. My point is most don't follow every
single word of the Koran. Well the Muslim theocracies sure do which is why
other religions are persecuted.
cornholio
Duh, do you think?
Saracene
> http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2009/11/long-shadow-of-slavery-in-ma...
>
> The Long Shadow Of Slavery In Mauritania
> The Islamic Republic of Mauritania's tradition of chattel slavery is
> back in the news this week.
>
> A special report issued by Gulnara Shahinian, the first United Nations
> "Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of slavery", reveals how
> little progress has been made in ending slavery within the borders of
> that West African nation.
>
owners and their slaves.
It's a very traditional society.
I would think there are worse abuses in the world to worry about, like
the American penal system, or the Israeli behaviour in Gaza and the
west Bank.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:666eb482-447b-4523...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
I can see. I'd probably have had no idea if I hadn't spent 3 years with the
Bahais.
cornholio
As a muslime fuck, I can see how you would think that Abdul.
cornholio
What's the ONLY place in the Mid-East where Bahais aren't being
persecuted by muslime fucks?
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eeb1573d-2d67-40c0...@r40g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Israel. I hate to admit it but yeah Israel is the only country in the middle
east which allows freedom of religion and doesn't force it's women to wear
veils.
Saracene
Wouldn't you like to have slaves you could fuck, or who could
alternatively cornhole you according to taste?
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b75c2124-d483-4e13...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
He doesn't need to force slaves to fuck him. Unlike you, women actually
want to have sex with him. Not smelling like camel arse does help you know.
Saracene
> "Saracene" <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
sordid little Yiddish prick like him? How do you know, pray? Are you
just another alter ego?
> Not smelling like camel arse does help you know.
Camel arse better than unwiped cornholio.
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:222e1590-db90-4e34...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Another Jew hater. Is there anyone you people don't hate?
Saracene
You should get out more.
cornholio
Muslimes hate everyone not a muslime fuck -- it's part and
parcel of their religion. If you ever bothered to read the koran
you would find out just how kufars/infidels are to be treated.
cornholio
What else can you expect from a muslime fuck but bestiality
and pedophilia?
Saracene
Hard as it is to respect the shit on my shoes, if you could perhaps
show the decency to be deeply ashamed of your origins you might at
least earn my compassion.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5e9699da-c66d-4202...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
They even hate their fellow Muslims as suicide bombers murder their own
kind. I haven't and thankfully some Muslims haven't as well. I have a
feeling if they do they will realise how insane their religion is, the way I
did when I started to read the Old testament.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cb431ee-6830-4b71...@m35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
And hate. But supporting slavery is a new one.
Saracene
> "cornholio" <andxor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
It's a motes and beams issue. But you don;t sound bright enough to
grasp that.
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8bc893a6-62eb-4bd9...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
The only issue is slavery is wrong. It was wrong when the Africans did it,
wrong when the whites did it, wrong when the Jews did it and wrong when the
Muslims do it...I mean did it.
cornholio
FOAD muslime piece of shit. Preferably back in whatever islamopig
sty you crawled out of. I don't need your compassion, what I want
to do is beat 7 shades of shit out of you.
cornholio
I think you should stick to raising your bunghole for bumhammad and
allah -- back in whatever third world muslime shithole your find most
convenient Abdul.
cornholio
Duh, the muslimes are still practicing slavery, which was the whole
point
of this article and, as you've noticed, the muslime fuck had no
problem with
that fact and indeed, seemed to support it.
Saracene
What makes you think it's wrong? Your God given intuition?
Saracene
Hit home did I Jewboy?
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d33b28d4-f477-44c3...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Yeah I couldn't believe it when he did. Yeshua may have not spoken out
against slavery but it was the Christians who ended it, during the American
civil war I believe (unless I'm mistaken)
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2dd3d299-98a7-46ba...@r40g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
I can't believe you actually support slavery. God created men and women
equal. It doesn't matter what our race is or gender or whatever is, we are
all equal in the eyes of God. No human being is superior to anyone and can
own anyone. So no one can own another human being. Now if they are into that
BDSM stuff that's another story but yeah if it's not concessional slavery is
wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
cornholio
Yeshua never owned any slaves and neither did any of his disciples/
apostles.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:17c09c09-1fb9-4f93...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
But he did use slavery in his parable's.
cornholio
Yes, I admit that, although I'm not familiar w/the exact passages
and I don't think you can insinuate and/or imply that he SUPPORTED
slavery.
Seon Ferguson
"cornholio" <andx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7c41138-37ab-489c...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Exactly slavery was the norm during the era he taught. It doesn't mean
Yeshua supported slavery just that because it was the norm in his time he
didn't speak out against it.
However slavery is no longer the norm in society and Muslims still support
it.
Saracene
Not if there is no God.
cornholio
What if there's no allah? Have you been raising your bunghole for
nothing?
Saracene
Not everyone who objects to arrogant, offensive, pushy, anally
obsessed little yids is necessarily a Muslim.
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:397b76f1-0259-4c17...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
And not everyone who objects to your Muslim apologist Jew hating vermin is a
"Yid" whatever that is.
Krudd the Dud
wrote:
>> What if there's no allah? Have you been raising your bunghole for
>> nothing?
>
>Not everyone who objects to arrogant, offensive, pushy, anally
>obsessed little yids is necessarily a Muslim.
Usual defence of a defenseless point by a Muslim scum bag.
Saracene
My point is merely that Cornholio is a hate filled obnoxious little
piece of shite, every bit as vulnerable to contemptuous stereotyping
as the Muslims he obsessively disdains. Just look at the record of his
posts. If it is acceptable to hate Muslims it must be acceptable to
hate Jews.
I hate neither..
Saracene
<never.make.a.hard.decis...@gutless.wonder.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:39:43 -0800 (PST), Saracene <john....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> What if there's no allah? Have you been raising your bunghole for
> >> nothing?
>
> >Not everyone who objects to arrogant, offensive, pushy, anally
> >obsessed little yids is necessarily a Muslim.
>
> Usual defence of a defenseless point by a Muslim scum bag.
I am not a Muslim.
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ff9affe1-65b6-4114...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
So why do you call everyone a "yid" and to answer your other question if
there's no God then evolution created us all equal and everyone deserves the
same human rights, God or no God.
Saracene
>
> > My point is merely that Cornholio is a hate filled obnoxious little
> > piece of shite, every bit as vulnerable to contemptuous stereotyping
> > as the Muslims he obsessively disdains. Just look at the record of his
> > posts. If it is acceptable to hate Muslims it must be acceptable to
> > hate Jews.
> > I hate neither..
>
> So why do you call everyone a "yid"
I don not call everyone a yid. I am referring primarily to Cornholio,
who is so offensively anti-Muslim that he deserves to be called one.l
Secondarily to people who think as he does, generally because they
are,. I am not calling you a yid unless you are one.
> and to answer your other question if
> there's no God then evolution created us all equal and everyone deserves the
> same human rights, God or no God.
Such fatuous imbecility annoys me, I have to admit.
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bde5648a-77b2-4613...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
> On 5 Dec, 11:12, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> > My point is merely that Cornholio is a hate filled obnoxious little
>> > piece of shite, every bit as vulnerable to contemptuous stereotyping
>> > as the Muslims he obsessively disdains. Just look at the record of his
>> > posts. If it is acceptable to hate Muslims it must be acceptable to
>> > hate Jews.
>> > I hate neither..
>>
>> So why do you call everyone a "yid"
>
> I don not call everyone a yid. I am referring primarily to Cornholio,
> who is so offensively anti-Muslim that he deserves to be called one.l
> Secondarily to people who think as he does, generally because they
> are,. I am not calling you a yid unless you are one.
>
So anyone who is anti Muslim is a "Yid?" why can't they just be atheists?
>> and to answer your other question if
>> there's no God then evolution created us all equal and everyone deserves
>> the
>> same human rights, God or no God.
>
> Such fatuous imbecility annoys me, I have to admit.
>
>
Huh?
>
>
>
Saracene
> "Saracene" <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bde5648a-77b2-4613...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 5 Dec, 11:12, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > My point is merely that Cornholio is a hate filled obnoxious little
> >> > piece of shite, every bit as vulnerable to contemptuous stereotyping
> >> > as the Muslims he obsessively disdains. Just look at the record of his
> >> > posts. If it is acceptable to hate Muslims it must be acceptable to
> >> > hate Jews.
> >> > I hate neither..
>
> >> So why do you call everyone a "yid"
>
> > I don not call everyone a yid. I am referring primarily to Cornholio,
> > who is so offensively anti-Muslim that he deserves to be called one.l
> > Secondarily to people who think as he does, generally because they
> > are,. I am not calling you a yid unless you are one.
>
> So anyone who is anti Muslim is a "Yid?" why can't they just be atheists?
Do I have to spell it out? 'Yid' is a derogatory word for a Jew. There
is nothing to stop a Jew being an atheist. A lot of Jews are not just
anti-Muslim, but viciously so, and that is because of Muslim
opposition of the state of Israel. I suspect Cornholio of being a Jew,
from his posts I feel pretty sure.
>
> >> and to answer your other question if
> >> there's no God then evolution created us all equal and everyone deserves
> >> the
> >> same human rights, God or no God.
>
> > Such fatuous imbecility annoys me, I have to admit.
>
> Huh?
Clearly you are a bit slow on the uptake. If human beings evolved they
were not created. Values of equality are man made, they are not given
by nature.
>
>
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68fa7ab9-e0a8-4b4b...@j35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On 6 Dec, 06:44, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Saracene" <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:bde5648a-77b2-4613...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On 5 Dec, 11:12, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > My point is merely that Cornholio is a hate filled obnoxious little
>> >> > piece of shite, every bit as vulnerable to contemptuous stereotyping
>> >> > as the Muslims he obsessively disdains. Just look at the record of
>> >> > his
>> >> > posts. If it is acceptable to hate Muslims it must be acceptable to
>> >> > hate Jews.
>> >> > I hate neither..
>>
>> >> So why do you call everyone a "yid"
>>
>> > I don not call everyone a yid. I am referring primarily to Cornholio,
>> > who is so offensively anti-Muslim that he deserves to be called one.l
>> > Secondarily to people who think as he does, generally because they
>> > are,. I am not calling you a yid unless you are one.
>>
>> So anyone who is anti Muslim is a "Yid?" why can't they just be atheists?
>
> Do I have to spell it out? 'Yid' is a derogatory word for a Jew. There
> is nothing to stop a Jew being an atheist. A lot of Jews are not just
> anti-Muslim, but viciously so, and that is because of Muslim
> opposition of the state of Israel. I suspect Cornholio of being a Jew,
> from his posts I feel pretty sure.
>>
How is that "logic" any different to him thinking you are a Muslim? You are
both bigots. Admit it already!
>> >> and to answer your other question if
>> >> there's no God then evolution created us all equal and everyone
>> >> deserves
>> >> the
>> >> same human rights, God or no God.
>>
>> > Such fatuous imbecility annoys me, I have to admit.
>>
>> Huh?
>
> Clearly you are a bit slow on the uptake. If human beings evolved they
> were not created. Values of equality are man made, they are not given
> by nature.
>>
>>
>
Ok obviously my reply to you wasn't well thought out. Point taken.
Saracene
look at his posts.
I do not mind him thinking I am a Muslim. What I mind is his odious
hated.
cornholio
I find it highly acceptable to hate muslimes, kinda like most people
revile nazis for the ideology they subscribe to. The ideology of
pislam is just as hate-filled and genocidal as anything ANY nazi
ever dreamed of as is proved by the actions of muslime pigs in their
blood-filled, violent past, present and in all likelihood future.
cornholio
>
> I do not mind him thinking I am a Muslim. What I mind is his odious
> hated.
LOL, have read the koran dipstick?
Saracene
Yes I have, Jewboy. It presents no great threat to me personally.
Saracene
Could you tell me why you think it highly acceptable to hate Nazis,
apart from the fact they wanted to kill Jews, which was understandable
if not exactly cricket?
>The ideology of
> pislam is just as hate-filled and genocidal as anything ANY nazi
> ever dreamed of
Trouble with Nazis was only that they thought the end justified the
means.
drahcir
LOL! Your poor primitive - no ability to conceive of right and wrong
without "God".
drahcir
Perhaps you weren't paying close attention while you were "reading".
Saracene
I have moral values, just not the same as yours. I think the Jewsih
role in communism was morally reprehensible, for example.
Saracene
It doesn't. It is good that Islam should exist, for human variety.
Krudd the Dud
wrote:
>I have moral values, just not the same as yours. I think
Liar
Saracene
<never.make.a.hard.decis...@gutless.wonder.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:25:39 -0800 (PST), Saracene <john....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have moral values, just not the same as yours. I think
>
> Liar
You should do more reading. You may apply to me for a reading list.
drahcir
Stupid comment. Can you show that "human variety" is always
preferable? How about, next time you enjoy a good meal, bang a nail
through your eye - for variety.
drahcir
Yet another stupid comment. Specifically, which "role" are you
condemning?
Seon Ferguson
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8af4118c-1e0a-4b31...@r1g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Which you show by thinking anyone who criticises Islam is a Jew. I have gone
through that. When I explained i thought Judaism and Christianity were myths
the Muslim then said I was gay and he hopes i get aids and die.
Seon Ferguson
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bda98797-1a50-4992...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
If he was he would see that the Koran says Judaism and Christianity are both
different paths to God and Moses and Jesus were prophets.
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Seems like you may have skipped the good parts.
drahcir
For your reading pleasure:
http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/cot/t1w11meccasurahmedinian.htm
cornholio
His nick refers to muslimes. I wonder why?
cornholio
Good, then get your ass out of whatever Western democracy you now
leech off of and move back to whatever third world, muslime pigsty you
were conceived in.
drahcir
Don't draw conclusions from nicks - some just like to be mysterious or
perverse.
Seon Ferguson
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:640baabf-75c3-4394...@g25g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Like?
drahcir
look down.
Seon Ferguson
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1358edb-6134-48f9...@v37g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Nothing shocking on that site because the Koran says that Jesus was a
prophet and Christianity is one of many paths to God. Read the actual Koran.
drahcir
I have, you apparently have in part. The Koran is contradictory
regarding Christianity as it is on many topics because it was written
by fallible humans. For some reason you say "there is nothing
shocking" on that site, yet appear to maintain a premise that is
contradicted by it. Perhaps your reading is, ahem, selective?
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the
Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words
of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved
before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Of course, no jew believes Ezra was the son of God in the sense of
Jesus, that's just proof that ignorant arabs wrote the koran, however,
how about the vast majority of Christians who believe Jesus was the
son of God? MAY ALLAH DESTROY THEM! Yet you say that the Koran says
Christianity is one of the many paths to God. Perhaps you meant one of
the many paths to God's curse? I think you had better reread.
cornholio
SOmetimes I wonder if "Seon Ferguson" is really a "Seon" at all.
I wonder if his defense of pislam has something to do w/the Bahai
faith, which, I believe, accepts muhamMAD as one of their prophets
and thus must find muhamMAD's genocidal hatred and intolerance
acceptable.
Saracene
I don't think that would do much to increase human variety. But of
course not all variety is good. It is good that countries like Syria
should exist, they are very interesting to visit. It would be better
for humanity if there were less Jews though.
Saracene
>
> > I do not mind him thinking I am a Muslim. What I mind is his odious
> > hated.
>
> Which you show by thinking anyone who criticises Islam is a Jew. I have gone
> through that. When I explained i thought Judaism and Christianity were myths
> the Muslim then said I was gay and he hopes i get aids and die.
That was not very nice of him. Maybe you are not Jewsih, maybe you are
just an American or a dupe.
Saracene
That is a very cretinous and bigoted remark. I like to travel. Do you
prefer to stay in your ghetto?
Saracene
Early communism was a mostly Jewish movement. A bit like a war on the
gentile world.
drahcir
Hmm, that would seem to contradict your brilliant statement above:
It is good that Islam should exist, for human variety.
Having second "thoughts", eh?
> It is good that countries like Syria
> should exist, they are very interesting to visit.
You are getting confused. You originally claimed that it's good that
Islam exists, even if it is a bane of humanity, for the sake of "human
variety". You abandoned that when I pointed out how stupid it is, only
to now babble about the existence of "countries like Syria". Maybe you
had better stick to something simple, like counting your fingers.
> It would be better
> for humanity if there were less Jews though.
Hehe, it didn't take long for me to strip away your pretentious,
pseudointellectual veneer to reveal a garden variety antisemite, as
always, stupid by nature. Thank you.
drahcir
I'm not really interested in the "why" - it's the "what" that concerns
me. Besides, is there some law against a Bahai Seon?
drahcir
"Early communism"? "Early communism" was the product of a revolution
in Russia of the Bolsheviks, led by Lenin, a gentile. Jews did
participate in it to a higher proportion than that in the Russian
population, it is true, but still comprised a small minority of
Communists. Stalin banished Trotsky and later had major purges against
Jews. And of course, we know about all of those jews in "early
communism" in China! If you're trying to prove that you're an idiot,
you are for once succeeding.
Saracene
I said it is good that Islam should exist for the sake of human
variety. I did not say that every variation was good or desirable.
Human variety in general is a good thing though there may be other
considerations to override it. In the case of the existence of Islam
this is not so. So I abandoned nothing I said. You are an idiot.
>
> > It would be better
> > for humanity if there were less Jews though.
>
> Hehe, it didn't take long for me to strip away your pretentious,
> pseudointellectual veneer to reveal a garden variety antisemite, as
> always, stupid by nature. Thank you.
You are a hate filled bigot. You are so unpleasant that you bring out
the worst in me. But the thought it would be good for humanity if
there were less Jews, among whom I include yourself, is rational and
considered. I take it you think it would be better for humanity if
there were less Muslims. so where's the difference?
Saracene
That is just gross ignorance or a fucking great lie.
> it is true, but still comprised a small minority of
> Communists. Stalin banished Trotsky and later had major purges against
> Jews. And of course, we know about all of those jews in "early
> communism" in China!
Chinese communism was a bit later. Anyway I am not counting them.
drahcir
LOL! I easily rooted you out as a garden-variety, stupid as stone
antisemite, and now all your poor, defective "brain" can do is call
names, completely without foundation. You may as well just call me a
doodyhead.
> You are so unpleasant that you bring out
> the worst in me.
ROFLMAO! Now this creature wants to blame ME for what he is and does
and says! BWAHAHAHA!
> But the thought it would be good for humanity if
> there were less Jews, among whom I include yourself, is rational and
> considered.
THIS IS TOO FUNNY! The cretin soothes himself IN PUBLIC! In ONE POST I
get this pseudointellectual creep to reveal his true self, and now, to
make himself feel better, he describes his gutter tripe as "rational"
and (oh, this is good) "CONSIDERED"! Too precious for words.
> I take it you think it would be better for humanity if
> there were less Muslims. so where's the difference?
What a thing like you takes is of no importance to me.
Saracene
>
> > I take it you think it would be better for humanity if
> > there were less Muslims. so where's the difference?
>
> What a thing like you takes is of no importance to me.
Answer my question. Your hatred of Muslims is as bad as any
antisemite's hatred of Jews. If not please explain why.
drahcir
Which of the two points, specifically, are you referring to? You may
indicate by number:
1. Early communism was a product of a revolution in Russia of the
Bolsheviks, led by Lenin, a gentile.
2. Jews did participate in it to a higher proportion that that in the
Russian population.
Which of the two points is, in your esteemed opinion, a product of
gross ignorance or a lie? Awaiting your reply.
>
> > it is true, but still comprised a small minority of
> > Communists. Stalin banished Trotsky and later had major purges against
> > Jews. And of course, we know about all of those jews in "early
> > communism" in China!
>
> Chinese communism was a bit later. Anyway I am not counting them.
Oh, really? that's funny - you didn't make any such distinction about
jewish participation in communism above. Did you have a change of
"mind"?
drahcir
That wasn't your question. I'll paste your question below:
I take it you think it would be better for humanity if
there were less Muslims. so where's the difference?
If you are truly too dull to perceive the difference, I'll spell it
out for you. You said
It would be better
for humanity if there were less Jews though.
Then you projected your "thought" onto me. So, the difference is that
the business about less Jews is your thought, and the business about
less Muslims is just your silly assumption about me. Do you understand
the difference now, or do you require further assistance?
Saracene
I do sincerely apologise. I hastily misread. I thought I read a 'not'
in your point 2.. .
Actually Lenin was one quarter Jewish. Even Stalin had a Jewish wife.
>
>
> > > it is true, but still comprised a small minority of
> > > Communists. Stalin banished Trotsky and later had major purges against
> > > Jews. And of course, we know about all of those jews in "early
> > > communism" in China!
>
> > Chinese communism was a bit later. Anyway I am not counting them.
>
> Oh, really? that's funny - you didn't make any such distinction about
> jewish participation in communism above. Did you have a change of
> "mind"?
>
>
I said early communism. Post world war 2 was not that.
Saracene
I said 'I take it'' etc' I was open to correction. You do appear to
have suggested that Islam is a 'bane of humanity' (a thought you even
projected onto me) so I would have assumed that you thought it would
be better if there were less Muslims. You now say it is a silly
assumption. I do find that a bit odd.
drahcir
> On 7 Dec, 18:46, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 1:08 pm, Saracene <john....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 7 Dec, 18:02, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I take it you think it would be better for humanity if
> > > > > there were less Muslims. so where's the difference?
>
> > > > What a thing like you takes is of no importance to me.
>
> > > Answer my question. Your hatred of Muslims is as bad as any
> > > antisemite's hatred of Jews. If not please explain why.
>
> > That wasn't your question. I'll paste your question below:
>
> > I take it you think it would be better for humanity if
> > there were less Muslims. so where's the difference?
>
> > If you are truly too dull to perceive the difference, I'll spell it
> > out for you. You said
>
> > It would be better
> > for humanity if there were less Jews though.
>
> > Then you projected your "thought" onto me. So, the difference is that
> > the business about less Jews is your thought, and the business about
> > less Muslims is just your silly assumption about me. Do you understand
> > the difference now, or do you require further assistance?
>
> I said 'I take it'' etc' I was open to correction. You do appear to
> have suggested that Islam is a 'bane of humanity' (a thought you even
> projected onto me)
Really? Why don't we review the situation. Here's a paste from above:
> > > > > > > LOL, have read the koran dipstick? [not my comment]
> > > > > > Yes I have, Jewboy. It presents no great threat to me personally. [you]
> > > > > Perhaps you weren't paying close attention while you were "reading". [me]
> > > > It doesn't. It is good that Islam should exist, for human variety.
So, you say that, regardless of its worth, it's good that Islam should
exist for "human variety".
The implication is that whether or not it is a bane of humanity is for
you irrelevant.
> so I would have assumed that you thought it would
> be better if there were less Muslims. You now say it is a silly
> assumption. I do find that a bit odd.
I'll be happy to explain. I believe that Islam is a bane of humanity.
Notice I said "A", not "the". I believe all religions are banes of
humanity, so using your "logic" would mean that I believe all except
atheists should be killed. As much damage as Islam does to non-
believers, it does much more to believers. The solution is not to get
rid of Muslims, but to convince them that Islam is a lie. Of course,
in an ideal world, all religions would be shown to be lies, but we
must start with the most malevolent.
Saracene
I would have thought the implication was that I did not think it a
bane of humanity.
>
> > so I would have assumed that you thought it would
> > be better if there were less Muslims. You now say it is a silly
> > assumption. I do find that a bit odd.
>
> I'll be happy to explain. I believe that Islam is a bane of humanity.
> Notice I said "A", not "the". I believe all religions are banes of
> humanity, so using your "logic" would mean that I believe all except
> atheists should be killed.
I was saying nothing about killing anybody.
> As much damage as Islam does to non-
> believers, it does much more to believers. The solution is not to get
> rid of Muslims, but to convince them that Islam is a lie. Of course,
> in an ideal world, all religions would be shown to be lies, but we
> must start with the most malevolent.
How can we stop Jews identifying themselves as Jews?
l
Saracene
Not by hatred is hatred ended, as it says in the Dhammapada. The
confrontational hostile attitude to Islam is very unhelpful. I get the
impression that it is primarily promoted by Jews, who conscious of the
hostility of the whole Muslim world to Israel, work hard to to involve
the west as a whole in their hatred.
The term 'arselifter' is very offensive, and naturally invites
epithets like 'Jewboy' and 'yid' in response.
drahcir
That's ok. I understand. You'll just have to trust that that's not
what others understand. The reason is that if you didn't think Islam
were a negative, you would not have found it necessary to justify its
existence with "human variety" - it would have been justified by its
own merits. Never mind - it's obviously beyond you.
>
> > > so I would have assumed that you thought it would
> > > be better if there were less Muslims. You now say it is a silly
> > > assumption. I do find that a bit odd.
>
> > I'll be happy to explain. I believe that Islam is a bane of humanity.
> > Notice I said "A", not "the". I believe all religions are banes of
> > humanity, so using your "logic" would mean that I believe all except
> > atheists should be killed.
>
> I was saying nothing about killing anybody.
Ah, so when you said
It would be better
for humanity if there were less Jews though.
you didn't mean that it would be better if Jews were killed, you just
meant that it would be better if somehow they were gone - just some
magic way, without all of the bodies to dispose of and messy blood and
stuff - maybe they could all be sent to some colony on the moon or
something, eh?
> > As much damage as Islam does to non-
> > believers, it does much more to believers. The solution is not to get
> > rid of Muslims, but to convince them that Islam is a lie. Of course,
> > in an ideal world, all religions would be shown to be lies, but we
> > must start with the most malevolent.
>
> How can we stop Jews identifying themselves as Jews?
At this stage, as you try to squirm around to muddy up what you said,
I think we had better call it a day.
drahcir
Translation: you are ashamed seeing your adolescent "jewboy" in print,
and want to cite some justification. The stupidest part is that the
guy you were addressing as "jewboy" isn't even jewish. One can't
expect much more from the likes of you, I suppose.
Saracene
>
> > Not by hatred is hatred ended, as it says in the Dhammapada. The
> > confrontational hostile attitude to Islam is very unhelpful. I get the
> > impression that it is primarily promoted by Jews, who conscious of the
> > hostility of the whole Muslim world to Israel, work hard to to involve
> > the west as a whole in their hatred.
> > The term 'arselifter' is very offensive, and naturally invites
> > epithets like 'Jewboy' and 'yid' in response.
>
> Translation: you are ashamed seeing your adolescent "jewboy" in print,
> and want to cite some justification.
Not at all. The explanation I have given is the true one. Translation
of your post:- you can see I have made a good point so want to
attribute my motive to something baser.
> The stupidest part is that the
> guy you were addressing as "jewboy" isn't even jewish.
Do you think this 'guy' is in order to post the obscene anti-Muslim
drivel with which he regales us? And how do you know he is not Jewish?
If he has no Jewish connection then he must be right off his chump. If
he is not Jewish he shows an extraordinary interest in Jewish issues.
Saracene
>
> > I would have thought the implication was that I did not think it a
> > bane of humanity.
>
> That's ok. I understand. You'll just have to trust that that's not
> what others understand. The reason is that if you didn't think Islam
> were a negative, you would not have found it necessary to justify its
> existence with "human variety" - it would have been justified by its
> own merits. Never mind - it's obviously beyond you.
>
You are the limited one. I do not want the rest of humanity to be like
me. I do not want to be a Muslim or a Hindu, I am happy that others
should be. I don't want to be a woman. I am happy that women should
exist.
>
>
>
> > I was saying nothing about killing anybody.
>
> Ah, so when you said
>
> It would be better
> for humanity if there were less Jews though.
>
> you didn't mean that it would be better if Jews were killed, you just
> meant that it would be better if somehow they were gone - just some
> magic way, without all of the bodies to dispose of and messy blood and
> stuff - maybe they could all be sent to some colony on the moon or
> something, eh?
I said it would be better if there were less of them. I said I do not
believe the ends justify the means. That is consistent surely? You
would like there to be less Muslims, by somehow persuading them to
give up their religion. Just as much a pipe dream I would think.
>
> > > As much damage as Islam does to non-
> > > believers, it does much more to believers. The solution is not to get
> > > rid of Muslims, but to convince them that Islam is a lie. Of course,
> > > in an ideal world, all religions would be shown to be lies, but we
> > > must start with the most malevolent.
>
> > How can we stop Jews identifying themselves as Jews?
>
> At this stage, as you try to squirm around to muddy up what you said,
> I think we had better call it a day.
I'm just asking for some speculative insight into how we might remove
an evil, such as you think the existence of Islam to be. Why call it
a day?
Saracene
>
> > I would have thought the implication was that I did not think it a
> > bane of humanity.
>
> That's ok. I understand. You'll just have to trust that that's not
> what others understand. The reason is that if you didn't think Islam
> were a negative, you would not have found it necessary to justify its
> existence with "human variety" - it would have been justified by its
> own merits. Never mind - it's obviously beyond you.
>
You are the limited one. I do not want the rest of humanity to be like
me. I do not want to be a Muslim or a Hindu, I am happy that others
should be. I don't want to be a woman. I am happy that women should
exist.
>
>
>
> > I was saying nothing about killing anybody.
>
> Ah, so when you said
>
> It would be better
> for humanity if there were less Jews though.
>
> you didn't mean that it would be better if Jews were killed, you just
> meant that it would be better if somehow they were gone - just some
> magic way, without all of the bodies to dispose of and messy blood and
> stuff - maybe they could all be sent to some colony on the moon or
> something, eh?
I said it would be better if there were less of them. I said I do not
believe the ends justify the means. That is consistent surely? You
would like there to be less Muslims, by somehow persuading them to
give up their religion. Just as much a pipe dream I would think.
>
> > > As much damage as Islam does to non-
> > > believers, it does much more to believers. The solution is not to get
> > > rid of Muslims, but to convince them that Islam is a lie. Of course,
> > > in an ideal world, all religions would be shown to be lies, but we
> > > must start with the most malevolent.
>
> > How can we stop Jews identifying themselves as Jews?
>
> At this stage, as you try to squirm around to muddy up what you said,
> I think we had better call it a day.
I'm just asking for some speculative insight into how we might remove