The 60-Year War For Israel's History
DoD
conflicts. The first one is military in nature. Played out on the
battlefield, it has heroes, villains, martyrs, and victims. The second
conflict, less bloody but no less incendiary, is the battle over the
historical culpability for the 1948 war and the displacement of large
numbers of Palestinian Arabs.
The Israeli narrative views the Palestinian tragedy as primarily self-
inflicted, resulting from their vehement rejection of the 1947 United
Nations resolution calling for two states in Palestine, and the
violent attempt by regional Arab states to abort the Jewish state at
birth. By contrast, Palestinians view the episode as one in which they
fell victim to a Zionist strategy that dispossessed them from their
patrimony.
The New Historians
In the late 1980s the Palestinian narrative was bolstered by the
advent of a group of Israeli "new historians" who systematically
rewrote the history of Zionism, warping the saga for Israel's
survival. Aggressors were characterized as hapless victims and victims
became aggressors. Rarely found in these revisionist accounts was the
outspoken Arab commitment to destroy the Jewish national cause since
the early 1920s, or the dogged efforts of the Jews to achieve peaceful
coexistence. Instead, Zionism is depicted as an aggressive and
expansionist movement, or an offshoot of rapacious European
imperialism. According to Avi Shlaim, a noted new historian, Israel
was an "aggressive and overbearing military superpower," while
Palestinian Arabs could "only be seen as victims."
Aware that many of their key arguments and revelations were already
negated by the existing work of "Israeli writers, not to mention
Palestinian, Arab, and Western writers," as Shlaim noted, new
historians staked their legitimacy on their supposed use of recently
declassified documents from the archives of the British Mandate period
and Israel's early days. This pretense, however, was debunked inter
alia by a startling admission by Benny Morris of Ben-Gurion University
in Beer Sheva.
In researching The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem 1947-1949,
the most influential work of the new historians, Morris had "no access
to the materials in the IDFA [Israel Defense Force Archive] or Hagana
Archive and precious little to first-hand military materials deposited
elsewhere." Nevertheless, he insisted, "the new materials I have seen
over the past few years tend to confirm and reinforce the major lines
of description and analysis, and the conclusions, in The Birth."
This revelation was very damning. What made Morris and his colleagues
worth reading was their claim to have studied newly available
documentary evidence. It was this evidence, the new historians argued,
that necessitated a reevaluation of Israeli history. Yet there was
Morris, admitting that he had not "had access" to, or "was not aware
of," the voluminous archives of Israeli institutions whose actions in
1948 formed the basis of his indictment.
Morris and other new historians also failed to confirm and reinforce
their conclusions with previously available sources. What they did
confirm was what was already known: the collapse and dispersion of
Palestinian society was largely the responsibility of Palestinian and
other Arab leaders, not of the Zionists.
Morris' Distortion
Upon close examination, it appears that Morris and other new
historians engaged in systematic falsification of evidence. They seem
to have invented an Arab-Israeli history that fits with the political
agenda they promote. Tactics range from the "innocent" act of
extrapolating incorrect conclusions from documents, to tendentious
truncation of source materials in ways that distort their original
meanings, and even rewriting original texts to convey things they did
not intend. Two brief examples are worth noting.
In a letter to his son in 1937, David Ben-Gurion, the first prime
minister of Israel, wrote:
We do not wish and do not need to expel Arabs and take their place.
All our aspiration is built on the assumption - proven throughout all
our activity - that there is enough room for ourselves and the Arabs
in Palestine.
In The Birth, however, Morris claims Ben-Gurion penned the opposite:
"We must expel Arabs and take their place." Curiously, in his Hebrew-
language writings, Morris rendered Ben-Gurion's words accurately,
perhaps knowing that readers could check the original source.
In a separate article, Morris distorted Ben-Gurion's words from an
Israeli cabinet meeting on June 16, 1948:
We did not start the war. They made the war, Jaffa went to war against
us. So did Haifa. And I do not want those who fled to return. I do not
want them again to make war.
The key sentence, "I do not want those who fled to return," is simply
not found in the text of the meeting transcript. Rather, it reads as
follows:
We did not start the war. They made the war. Jaffa waged war on us,
Haifa waged war on us, Beit Shean waged war on us. And I do not want
them again to make war.
Again, in the Hebrew version of his article, Morris did not distort
Ben-Gurion's words.
At What Risk?
The discipline of history, the rigorous search for the truths of our
past, typically eschews the blatant distortion of facts. Yet, in the
highly politicized field of Middle Eastern studies, the new historians
are lionized as pioneers. They are viewed by their colleagues and
understudies as courageous for debunking Zionist "mythology" at a
considerable professional risk.
The new historians have not faced the slightest risk to their careers,
however. The humanities and social sciences faculties in most
American, European, and even Israeli universities are dominated by
like-minded academics. Indeed, the new historians have become
celebrated figures and have cashed in on their prestige. They receive
book deals and travel opportunities to share their "findings" around
the world. As Tom Segev, a journalist and new historian joked, "we
perform at weddings and bar mitzvas." Even a minor figure like Haifa
University student Teddy Katz, who published phony allegations of a
1948 Israeli massacre of hundreds of Palestinians in the village of
Tantura, was taken on a U.S. campus tour to promote his fabrications.
Pals of the Palestinians
Not surprisingly, the Palestinian propaganda machine has embraced the
new historians with alacrity. Who could possibly provide better
"proof" of the validity of the Palestinian narrative than Israeli
scholars who claim access to declassified Israeli documents?
Prominent politicians, including Palestinian Authority President
Mahmoud Abbas and PLO mouthpiece Hanan Ashrawi, and Palestinian
academics, including the late Edward Said and Columbia University's
Rashid Khalidi, have regularly cited the new historians in support of
Palestinian territorial and political claims. The partisan Journal of
Palestine Studies has made new historians their favorite contributors.
Palestinian propaganda websites contain countless "facts" drawn from
their writings. Palestinian negotiators in the failed Camp David (July
2000) and Taba (January 2001) peace summits reportedly invoked the
work of new historians, notably Morris' Birth, in attempts to
establish Israel's culpability for the 1948 naqba (catastrophe).
Impacting Israel
The new historians also had a profound impact on mainstream Israeli
opinion during the Oslo years. Fatigued by decades of terrorism,
yearning for normalcy, and desperate for reconciliation with the
Arabs, many educated Israelis warmed to the factually incorrect notion
that much of the fault for the conflict lay with their own country. If
reconciliation with the Arabs could not be achieved through military
deterrence, they reasoned, might not a new start be made by
accommodating Arab demands, acknowledging Israeli culpability for Arab
suffering, and agreeing to political and territorial concessions
stemming from the "original sin" of the Jewish state?
This mindset helps explain, in part, the headlong embrace by so many
educated Israelis of the Oslo process, and their insistence that it
would solve the problem of Arab intransigence. For them, Palestinian
violence and vitriol made it more necessary than ever to embrace the
idea of Jewish culpability. Convinced that Arab grievances were rooted
in Israeli aggression, many Israelis believed that violence could only
be overcome by appeasement and concessions.
Throughout the 1990s, the new historians' interpretation of the
conflict became increasingly embedded in Israeli thinking, the
mainstream Israeli media, and even Israeli educational curriculum.
"Only 10 years ago, much of this was taboo," the Israeli author of a
new ninth-grade textbook boasted to the New York Times. "Now we can
deal with this the way Americans deal with the Indians and black
enslavement."
Embracing 'New History' Under Fire
Even the Palestinian war of terror in September 2000 (also known as
the al-Aqsa intifada) failed to awaken many Israelis to the dangers of
the new historians. Indeed, Israel continued to negotiate for peace,
even as Yasir Arafat made it clear that he had launched a war to
"liberate" Jerusalem.
One Israeli negotiator, Shlomo Ben-Ami, lauded the contribution of new
historians to the political process. "The negotiations," he said,
"were a struggle of narratives, and the new historians definitely
helped in consolidating the Palestinians' conviction as to the
validity of their own narrative... the Israeli peacemakers came to the
negotiating table with perspectives that were shaped by recent
research." So impressed was Ben-Ami with this "recent research" that
he vested Avi Shlaim, the new historian from Oxford University, with
the task of reading the manuscript of his 2006 book on the Arab-
Israeli conflict.
The Song Remains the Same
Years after the demise of the Oslo peace process, the deleterious
effects of new history can still be observed. The intensely anti-
Israel and anti-Jewish atmosphere that emerged in the years after the
launch of the intifada has not waned. The despicable equation of
Zionism and Nazism has become commonplace, alongside outlandish
conspiracy theories regarding Jewish and Israeli domination of world
affairs. There has even been a surge in attacks on Jewish targets
throughout Europe at a level not seen since the 1930s.
Here, too, the new historians have played a role. Take, for example,
the working-paper-turned-book by Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer on
the supposed hijacking of U.S. foreign policy by a ruthless Jewish
cabal beholden to Israel. Walt and Mearsheimer cite the new history in
an attempt to prove Israel's alleged mistreatment of the Palestinians.
Indeed, the two international relations theorists cited so much from
the new historians that their book drew an angry riposte from Morris
for allegedly misquoting him and taking his writings out of context.
Did Morris have a minor pricking of conscience over the untold damage
he had wrought on Israel and the discipline of history? In addition to
lambasting Walt and Mearsheimer, he was critical of Yasir Arafat and
the Palestinian Authority's campaign of terrorism after the failure of
the Taba talks. But even as he strove to redress some of the damage he
had wrought, Morris brought out a new version of The Birth, which
rehashed some of his worst anti-Israel canards and re-writings of
history.
Other new historians, including Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappe, have
seemingly had no misgivings. Pappe falsely claimed to have been
persecuted by his university, providing the pretext for the 2005
boycott of Haifa University by Britain's 48,000-strong Association of
University Teachers (AUT). In countless tours and media appearances in
Europe and North America, Pappe derides the Jewish state as a racist,
artificial, colonialist implant in the Middle East, and as worthy of
extirpation as the former apartheid regime of South Africa. He is
joined by Shlaim, who, in recent years, has become a proponent of the
"one state solution" - a euphemism for replacing Israel with an Arab-
Muslim state and reducing Jews to a permanent minority.
Despite his overt advocacy of politicide, along with malevolent
falsifications of Israeli history, Shlaim was recently invited to
lecture at Tel Aviv University's Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and
African Studies. This invitation affords a stark illustration of the
intellectual malaise afflicting Israeli academia, and the Israeli
public more generally, to which the new historians have made a
significant and corrosive contribution.
dsha...@hotmail.com
Good article. In fact, the so-called "New Historians" say nothing that
wasn't already said by "old historians." One difference between the
two groups is that the latter made extensive use of Arabic and other
sources, while the former did not.
Deborah
HHW
This article is by Efraim Karsh, an extremely controversial historian
who, after acquiring his first academic degree in modern Middle
Eastern history, was a research analyst for the Israel Defence Forces
(IDF), where he attained the rank of Major.
This article comes from a TAX EXEMPT "think tank" fixture of the
domestic Israel Lobby, The militaristic Jewish Policy Center. This
comes from its web site. Stay alert while you read it.
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Ephraim Karsh:
> Since Israel's founding in 1948, there have been two Arab-Israeli
> conflicts. The first one is military in nature. Played out on the
> battlefield, it has heroes, villains, martyrs, and victims. The second
> conflict, less bloody but no less incendiary, is the battle over the
> historical culpability for the 1948 war and the displacement of large
> numbers of Palestinian Arabs.
>
> The Israeli narrative views the Palestinian tragedy as primarily self-
> inflicted, resulting from their vehement rejection of the 1947 United
> Nations resolution calling for two states in Palestine, and the
> violent attempt by regional Arab states to abort the Jewish state at
> birth. By contrast, Palestinians view the episode as one in which they
> fell victim to a Zionist strategy that dispossessed them from their
> patrimony.
Yes, a Zionist strategy, and it was written out, twice. Once,
collectively, in Plans A,B,C & D, the last of which was actually
executed in 1948, and then after the 1967 War, in the form of a Master
Plan for the settlement and creeping annexation of the West Bank and
Gaza. (As to the former, see Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of
Palestine" and as to the latter, see Professor Avi Shlaim's "Iron
Wall".
>
> The New Historians
> In the late 1980s the Palestinian narrative was bolstered by the
> advent of a group of Israeli "new historians" who systematically
> rewrote the history of Zionism, warping the saga for Israel's
> survival.
Not warping the saga, but changing the narrative to comport with
historical reality.
Aggressors were characterized as hapless victims and victims
> became aggressors.
Note, dear readers, the structure of this sentence. That A, B, and C
are "aggressors" is taken as a given. That Israel is made up of
"victims" is also a given.
Rarely found in these revisionist accounts was the
> outspoken Arab commitment to destroy the Jewish national cause since
> the early 1920s, or the dogged efforts of the Jews to achieve peaceful
> coexistence.
Here again, facets of the traditional patriotic narrative are accepted
as givens, e.g., that Arabs were always committed to one goal, the
destruction of Israel, while, contrary to their Zionist ideology,
Israelis wanted only coexistence, not the land itself.
Instead, Zionism is depicted as an aggressive and
> expansionist movement, or an offshoot of rapacious European
> imperialism. According to Avi Shlaim, a noted new historian, Israel
> was an "aggressive and overbearing military superpower," while
> Palestinian Arabs could "only be seen as victims."
There is no footnote here so we cannot put whatever Shlaim has said to
scrutiny, but Zionism is of course an aggressive and expansionist
movement. The long term intention of Zionists was to take the land of
Palestine from its indigenous inhabitants, the Palestinian Arabs. It
otherwise makes no sense. How else might a "Jewish State" eventuate?
>
> Aware that many of their key arguments and revelations were already
> negated by the existing work of "Israeli writers, not to mention
> Palestinian, Arab, and Western writers," as Shlaim noted, new
> historians staked their legitimacy on their supposed use of recently
> declassified documents from the archives of the British Mandate period
> and Israel's early days.
"Negated"? Revisionist history is not negated by that which it
overturns. And the new historians' use of recently declassified
documents was not "supposed". It is heavily noted and documented.
This pretense, however, was debunked inter
> alia by a startling admission by Benny Morris of Ben-Gurion University
> in Beer Sheva.
>
> In researching The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem 1947-1949,
> the most influential work of the new historians, Morris had "no access
> to the materials in the IDFA [Israel Defense Force Archive] or Hagana
> Archive and precious little to first-hand military materials deposited
> elsewhere." Nevertheless, he insisted, "the new materials I have seen
> over the past few years tend to confirm and reinforce the major lines
> of description and analysis, and the conclusions, in The Birth."
If Morris didn't have access to the IDF Archives Ilan Pappe certainly
did. And his revisionist narrative goes further than that of Professor
"Don't you just love" Benny Morris. And today Benny Morris has that
access and can if he wishes supplement his earlier work. And besides,
all of the relevant data was not found in the IDF Archives. The
planning and governance of the ethnic cleansing of 1947-49 was oversee
by civilian politicians, men such as Ben-Gurion.
> This revelation was very damning. What made Morris and his colleagues
> worth reading was their claim to have studied newly available
> documentary evidence. It was this evidence, the new historians argued,
> that necessitated a reevaluation of Israeli history. Yet there was
> Morris, admitting that he had not "had access" to, or "was not aware
> of," the voluminous archives of Israeli institutions whose actions in
> 1948 formed the basis of his indictment.
First Karsh says Morris was ignorant of IDF archives but in this very
next paragraph stretches it to include "the voluminous archives of
Israeli institutions whose actions in 1948 (actually it goes back way
into the thirties)."
>
> Morris and other new historians also failed to confirm and reinforce
> their conclusions with previously available sources. What they did
> confirm was what was already known: the collapse and dispersion of
> Palestinian society was largely the responsibility of Palestinian and
> other Arab leaders, not of the Zionists.
Pappe has demolished the theory of "the responsibility of Palestinian
and other Arab leaders" theory. Morris ends up calling it a mixture of
the two. What's especially curious about his work is that he
essentially admits the expulsions but goes on to say that ethnic
cleansing is a minor item and was necessary to fulfill israel's
destiny.
Again, no footnotes. And he needs them. When Ben-Gurion says that
"Haifa waged war on us" it did not occur to him that the Alexandroni
Brigade historian would naively describe what really happened. See
Pappe.
>
> At What Risk?
> The discipline of history, the rigorous search for the truths of our
> past, typically eschews the blatant distortion of facts. Yet, in the
> highly politicized field of Middle Eastern studies, the new historians
> are lionized as pioneers. They are viewed by their colleagues and
> understudies as courageous for debunking Zionist "mythology" at a
> considerable professional risk.
Yes, considerable professional risk. Several of them are in the
diaspora as we speak.
>
> The new historians have not faced the slightest risk to their careers,
> however. The humanities and social sciences faculties in most
> American, European, and even Israeli universities are dominated by
> like-minded academics. Indeed, the new historians have become
> celebrated figures and have cashed in on their prestige.
Their prestige was all false, a plot to mislead the world as to
Israeli history?
They receive
> book deals and travel opportunities to share their "findings" around
> the world. As Tom Segev, a journalist and new historian joked, "we
> perform at weddings and bar mitzvas." Even a minor figure like Haifa
> University student Teddy Katz, who published phony allegations of a
> 1948 Israeli massacre of hundreds of Palestinians in the village of
> Tantura, was taken on a U.S. campus tour to promote his fabrications.
The massacre at Tantura has been admitted by senior officers of the
unit involved. Katz was successfully intimidated. Karsh must know
this.
Maybe I'll finish this tomorrow. Maybe I'll go on to something else,
as this is the second time I've answered this same Karsh article.
ElParedon
history related to the occupied Palestine, none whatsoever!
hille...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Good article. In fact, the so-called "New Historians" say nothing that
> wasn't already said by "old historians." One difference between the
> two groups is that the latter made extensive use of Arabic and other
> sources, while the former did not.
I compare the "old historian" attitude to a "Grand Jury". Their
job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use all
sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
The more primary sources they can find, the more
happy they are.
The "new historians" are more like a prosecutor who decides
to get a conviction, no matter if the defendant is guilty or not.
Suppressing evidence is a pretty good idea because the
prosecutor "knows" that the defendant is guilty. It is
either a case of "honest prejudice" - the prosecutor let
his believes get in his way, or it is a case of dishonesty
- the prosecutor knows that the defendant is not guilty,
but he does not mind if justice will go down the drain
as long as his personal goals will be served by that.
The question of what the "new historians" are is
pretty interesting. IMO they are like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Nifong
DoD
You ALWAYS have excellent analogies...
dsha...@hotmail.com
> This article is by Efraim Karsh, an extremely controversial historian
Karsh isn't controversial, and he's several cuts above the David
Dukesque articles you post. But you never let facts get in your way,
and won't now, so just go back to your tequila.
Deborah
dsha...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
> > Good article. In fact, the so-called "New Historians" say nothing that
> > wasn't already said by "old historians." One difference between the
> > two groups is that the latter made extensive use of Arabic and other
> > sources, while the former did not.
On May 29, 10:07 am, hillelg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I compare the "old historian" attitude to a "Grand Jury". Their
> job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use all
> sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
> The more primary sources they can find, the more
> happy they are.
> The "new historians" are more like a prosecutor who decides
> to get a conviction, no matter if the defendant is guilty or not.
> Suppressing evidence is a pretty good idea because the
> prosecutor "knows" that the defendant is guilty. It is
> either a case of "honest prejudice" - the prosecutor let
> his believes get in his way, or it is a case of dishonesty
> - the prosecutor knows that the defendant is not guilty,
> but he does not mind if justice will go down the drain
> as long as his personal goals will be served by that.
Good analogy. Add to it the fact that a lot of the so-called "New
Historians" are simply angling for their 15 minutes of fame -- more,
if they can get it. And there are always those lucrative speaking
engagement fees for singing to antisemitic choirs.
> The question of what the "new historians" are is
> pretty interesting. IMO they are likehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Nifong
That gets it close, except that Nifong was prosecuted for his
falsehoods, and the New Historians keep clocking along like Sears
Energizer Bunnies.
Deborah
hille...@yahoo.com
> > pretty interesting. IMO they are like
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Nifong
On May 29, 11:29 am, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshara...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> That gets it close, except that Nifong was prosecuted for his
> falsehoods, and the New Historians keep clocking along like Sears
> Energizer Bunnies.
Even though Nifong can't see it, he is better off because
he was forced to face reality. Yes, he is in a hole, but at
least he was forced to stop digging.
The "new historians" don't even realize in what hole they
are. The future generations will probably view them as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko
dsha...@hotmail.com
> > > pretty interesting. IMO they are like
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Nifong
> > That gets it close, except that Nifong was prosecuted for his
> > falsehoods, and the New Historians keep clocking along like Sears
> > Energizer Bunnies.
On May 29, 1:39 pm, hillelg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Even though Nifong can't see it, he is better off because
> he was forced to face reality. Yes, he is in a hole, but at
> least he was forced to stop digging.
Unlike the so-called "new historians".
> The "new historians" don't even realize in what hole they
> are. The future generations will probably view them as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko
Not so future generations already do.
Deborah
Shlomo
> What fucking "history" are you blabbering about? ZioNazi thugs have no
> history related to the occupied Palestine, none whatsoever!
For God's sake, why do you constantly spew the same pro-Arab crap over
every thread on these newsgroups? The FACTS clearly show that you
have no basis for your statements.
Truth Will Out
<hille...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1c077500-04bd-4a19...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
| On May 28, 4:13 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshara...@hotmail.com>
| wrote:
| > Good article. In fact, the so-called "New Historians" say nothing that
| > wasn't already said by "old historians." One difference between the
| > two groups is that the latter made extensive use of Arabic and other
| > sources, while the former did not.
|
| I compare the "old historian" attitude to a "Grand Jury". Their
| job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use all
| sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
| The more primary sources they can find, the more
| happy they are.
Unless they take everything on Judicial Notice as was done during the
Nuremberg *trials*.
Truth Will Out
"dsha...@gmail.com" <dsha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7c79e46d-9407-46ee...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
| On May 28, 6:04 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| > This article is by Efraim Karsh, an extremely controversial historian
|
| Karsh isn't controversial,
You're right. He's simply a liar.
Truth Will Out
"Shlomo" <stan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a1dd0146-bc68-41ba...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The faccts are what ElParedon posted.
What you post are lies.
hille...@yahoo.com
On May 29, 4:51 pm, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@all_times.net>
wrote:
> You're right. He's simply a liar.
E.g.?
Please post a lie he said and don't forget
to tell us your source.
HHW
> wrote:
>
> > Good article. In fact, the so-called "New Historians" say nothing that
> > wasn't already said by "old historians." One difference between the
> > two groups is that the latter made extensive use of Arabic and other
> > sources, while the former did not.
>
> I compare the "old historian" attitude to a "Grand Jury". Their
> job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use all
> sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
> The more primary sources they can find, the more
> happy they are.
I'm sorry, they don't "find the truth". If that were their job there
would be no further reason for a trial.
>
> The "new historians" are more like a prosecutor who decides
> to get a conviction, no matter if the defendant is guilty or not.
You haven't read them.
> Suppressing evidence is a pretty good idea because the
> prosecutor "knows" that the defendant is guilty.
They in fact add evidence to the cherry picked and manufactured stuff
used before to create false impressions supporting the patriotic
narrative. I understand the claim that Arab radio broadcasts had urged
the Palestinians to flee was disproved because intelligence agencies
had recorded them at the time and that the claims are proved untrue.
It is
> either a case of "honest prejudice" - the prosecutor let
> his believes get in his way, or it is a case of dishonesty
> - the prosecutor knows that the defendant is not guilty,
> but he does not mind if justice will go down the drain
> as long as his personal goals will be served by that.
Every profession has its cheaters. They simply do it in ways
characteristic of the profession.
>
> The question of what the "new historians" are is
> pretty interesting. IMO they are likehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Nifong
Why do you go to Nifong's Wiki when there is probably one on the New
Historians themselves?
Of course, here it is:
New Historians
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Have questions? Find out how to ask questions and get answers. •
The New Historians are a loosely-defined group of Israeli historians
who have published histories of expulsions of Palestinians by Israel
in 1948, expropriations of Palestinian property, and/or campaigns of
ethnic cleansing by Israel in and around 1948. Much of their primary
source material comes from declassified Israeli government papers. The
movement includes such scholars as Benny Morris, Ilan Pappé, Avi
Shlaim, Tom Segev and (retrospectively) Simha Flapan. Many of their
conclusions have been in incorporated into the political ideology of
post-Zionists. But while some of the New Historians hold dovish
political views, still others hold or held conservative views,
themselves supporting expulsions.
Contents [hide]
1 Main arguments
2 Criticism
3 Major debates
4 Notes
5 References
6 Further reading
7 External links
[edit]Main arguments
The main arguments of the new historians were summarized by Avi Shlaim
as follows:
The official version said that Britain tried to prevent the
establishment of a Jewish state; the New Historians claimed that it
tried to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state
The official version said that the Palestinians fled their homes of
their own free will; the New Historians said that the refugees were
chased out or expelled
The official version said that the balance of power was in favor of
the Arabs; the New Historians said that Israel had the advantage both
in manpower and in arms
The official version said that the Arabs had a coordinated plan to
destroy Israel; the New Historians said that the Arabs were divided
The official version said that Arab intransigence prevented peace; the
New Historians said that Israel is primarily to blame for the dead
end. [1]
The New Historians' publications present the Zionist movement as aimed
in such a way that Jewish statehood could only be possible through the
displacement of at least some Palestinian Arabs. This is in line with
the prevailing Palestinian view - the traditional Israeli view is that
the displacement was neither necessary for Israel's establishment nor
desired by those establishing it. In particular, the New Historians
claim that a majority of the Palestinian refugees were driven away
from their homes during the 1948 war, rather than fleeing of their own
free choice, as traditional Israeli histories had claimed.
Nevertheless, not all of the New Historians see this process as the
result of a pre-determined policy of expulsion.
New Historian Ilan Pappé claims[2], in sharp contrast to the views of
both sides, that the military events of 1948 were not decisive. He
claims that the establishment of Israel and the fate of the
Palestinians was determined by politicians on both sides—in the
discussions and decisions of the United Nations in 1947–8 and in the
Arab League—long before a shot had been fired. Pappé argues that
Israel's failure to take advantage of the genuine opportunity for
peace with the Arabs at the UN-sponsored Lausanne Conference in 1949
resulted in the continuing and tragic conflict between Israel and the
Arab states.
According to the New Historians, Israel and Arab countries each have
their own share of responsibility for the Arab-Israeli conflict and
the Palestinian plight, though the larger responsibility for the
present impasse lies with Israel. [3]
[edit]Criticism
The writings of the New Historians have come under repeated criticism,
both from traditional Israeli historians who accuse them of
fabricating Zionist misdeeds and from Arab or pro-Arab writers who
accuse them of whitewashing the truth about Zionist misbehavior.
Early in 2002, the most famous of the new historians, Benny Morris,
publicly reversed some of his personal political positions [4], though
he has not withdrawn any of his historical writings.
Anita Shapira offers the following criticism:
One of the more serious charges raised against the "new historians"
concerned their sparse use of Arab sources. In a preemptive move,
[Avi] Shlaim states at the outset of his new book that his focus is on
Israeli politics and the Israeli role in relations with the Arab world—
and thus he has no need of Arab documents. [Benny] Morris claims that
he is able to extrapolate the Arab positions from the Israeli
documentation. Both authors make only meager use of original Arab
sources, and most such references cited are in English translation...
To write the history of relations between Israel and the Arab world
almost exclusively on the basis of Israeli documentation results in
obvious distortions. Every Israeli contingency plan, every flicker of
a far-fetched idea expressed by David Ben-Gurion and other Israeli
planners, finds its way into history as conclusive evidence for the
Zionist state's plans for expansion. What we know about Nasser's
schemes regarding Israel, by contrast, derives solely from secondary
and tertiary sources. [5]
[edit]Major debates
On a few occasions there have been heated public debates between the
New Historians and their detractors. The most notable:
Benny Morris and Avi Shlaim versus Shabtai Teveth
Teveth is best known as a biographer of David Ben-Gurion. Teveth:
Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 26 (1990) 214-249; Morris: 1948 and
After; Teveth: Commentary; Morris and Shlaim: Tikkun.
Benny Morris versus Norman Finkelstein and Nur Masalha
This took place in three articles in the Journal of Palestine Studies
Vol. 21, No. 1, Autumn, 1991. While acknowledging that Morris had
brought to light a vast quantity of previously unknown archival
material, Finkelstein and Masalha accused Morris of presenting the
evidence with a pro-Zionist spin. Finkelstein wrote "Morris has
substituted a new myth, one of the "happy medium" for the old. ...
[T]he evidence that Morris adduces does not support his temperate
conclusions. ...[S]pecifically, Morris's central thesis that the Arab
refugee problem was "born of war, not by design" is belied by his own
evidence which shows that Palestine's Arabs were expelled
systematically and with premeditation." Masalha accused Morris of
treating the issue as "a debate amongst Zionists which has little to
do with the Palestinians themselves", and of ignoring the long history
that the idea of "transfer" (removal of the Palestinians) had among
Zionist leaders. In his response, Morris accused Finkelstein and
Masalha of "outworn preconceptions and prejudices" and reiterated his
support for a multifaceted explanation for the Arab flight.
Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappé versus Efraim Karsh
Efraim Karsh of King's College, London, is a founding editor of Israel
Affairs. Starting with an article in the magazine Middle East
Quarterly [6], Karsh alleged that the new historians "systematically
distort the archival evidence to invent an Israeli history in an image
of their own making". Karsh also provides a list of examples where, he
claims, the new historians "truncated, twisted, and distorted" primary
documents. Shlaim's reply [7] defended his analysis of the Zionist-
Hashemite negotiations prior to 1948. Morris declined immediate reply
[8], accusing Karsh of a "mélange of distortions, half-truths, and
plain lies", but published a lengthy rebuttal in the Winter 1998 issue
of the Journal of Palestine Studies. Morris replied to many of Karsh's
detailed accusations, but also returned Karsh's personal invective,
going so far as to compare Karsh's work to that of Holocaust-deniers.
Karsh also published a review [9] on an article of Morris [10],
charging him with "deep-rooted and pervasive distortions".
Teddy Katz versus Alexandroni Brigade
In 1998, Teddy Katz wrote a master's thesis at Haifa University
claiming that the Alexandroni Brigade committed a massacre in the Arab
village of Tantura during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. The veterans of
the brigade sued Katz for libel. During the court hearing Katz
conceded by issuing a statement retracting his own work. He then tried
to retract his retraction, but the court disallowed it and ruled
against him. He appealed to the Supreme Court but it declined to
intervene. Meanwhile a committee at Haifa University claimed to have
found serious problems with the thesis, including "quotations" that
were contradicted by Katz's records of interview. The university
suspended his degree and asked him to resubmit his thesis. The new
thesis was given a "second-class" pass. The Tantura debate remains
heated, largely due to the efforts of historian Ilan Pappé who
supports the allegations of a massacre.
[edit]Notes
^ Miron Rapaport (11.08.2005). No Peaceful Solution. Ha'aretz Friday
Supplement. (PDF)
^ Ilan Pappé, The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1947-1951, I.B.
Tauris 2004, Conclusions.
^ Miron Rapaport (11.08.2005). No Peaceful Solution. Ha'aretz Friday
Supplement.
^ Morris, 2002
^ Shapira, 1999
^ Karsh, 1996
^ Shlaim, 1996
^ Morris, 1996
^ Karsh, 1999
^ Journal of Palestine Studies, Spring 1995, pp. 44-62
[edit]References
Efraim Karsh, Rewriting Israel's History, Middle East Quarterly, June
1996, Volume 3, Number 2.
Efraim Karsh, Benny Morris and the Reign of Error, Middle East
Quarterly, March 1999, Volume 6, Number 1.
Efraim Karsh, "Resurrecting the Myth: Benny Morris, the Zionist
Movement, and the 'Transfer' Idea", Israel Affairs, Vol. 11, No. 3
(July 2005), pp. 469-490.
Benny Morris, Peace? No chance, The Guardian, February 21, 2002.
Benny Morris, Undeserving of a Reply Middle East Quarterly, September
1996, Volume 3, Number 3.
David Ratner, PA paid legal defense fees of 1948 Tantura affair
historian, Haaretz online, article undated, retrieved February 25
[[2005].
Anita Shapira, The Past is not a Foreign Country, The New Republic,
11/29/99.
Avi Shlaim, A Totalitarian Concept of History, Middle East Quarterly,
September 1996, Volume 3, Number 3.
[edit]Further reading
The Jewish Past Revisited: Reflections on Modern Jewish Historians, co-
edited by David N. Myers and David B. Ruderman ISBN 0-300-07216-3.
Fabricating Israeli history: The 'New Historians', Efraim Karsh, ISBN
0-7146-8063-X.
Refabricating 1948, Benny Morris, Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol
27, Issue 2 (Winter 1998), 81-95. (Morris' rebuttal to Karsh.)
The making of the Arab-Israeli conflict, 1947-1951, Ilan Pappé (1994),
ISBN 1-85043-819-6.
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, Ilan Pappé, Oneworld, Oxford: 2006
ISBN 1851684670
The War for Palestine: Rewriting the History of 1948, co-edited by
Eugene Rogan and Avi Shlaim
[edit]External links
Angela French, Reexamining Israel's History, Mitzpeh, May 2002.
A critical Palestinian perspective
Jerome Slater, What Went Wrong? The Collapse of the Israeli-
Palestinian Peace Process, Political Science Quarterly, Volume 116,
Number 2, Summer 2001.
Daniel Polisar, Editorial: "Making History", Azure, Azure Spring
5760 / 2000; editorial is dated February 1, 2000.
Shlomo
wrote:
> The faccts are what ElParedon posted.
>
> What you post are lies.
And the Arab liars, like ElParedon, who believe their own lies are the
cause of their own naqba 60 years ago, and which still goes on today.
Maybe had the Arab liars who believe their own lies tried to build a
nation in 1947, instead of trying to ethnic-cleanse Palestine of Jews,
they would have their own prosperous society today instead of the
squalor that their path of self-destruction led them to.
HHW
wrote:
Got your web site back up yet, Rosen?
HHW
I'm sure Lysenko hoped he too would be vindicated. He has not.
ElParedon
"Shlomo" <stan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a1dd0146-bc68-41ba...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
If that is the case can you show me one single papyrus, shard or stone with
the name "Israel" on it. I dare you!
Truth Will Out
<hille...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:02af71f8-1168-48fe...@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
He's a Jew, isn't he?
|
ElParedon
Jews you refer to are Russians, Germans, Romanians, Moldavians, Americans,
Ethiopians, Yemenis, of Jewish religion. None of them are natives of
Palestine.
And they must leave, NOW!
Truth Will Out
| On May 29, 7:52 pm, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@all_times.net>
| wrote:
|
| > The faccts are what ElParedon posted.
| >
| > What you post are lies.
|
| And the Arab liars, like ElParedon, who believe their own lies are the
| cause of their own naqba 60 years ago, and which still goes on today.
That is not true.
If the zionists had not started arriving in their thousands in the mid
1930s, the Arabs would still be living in peace alongside the Jews in the
region.
You are a liar.
ElParedon
occupied Palestine, ARE NOT Palestinians who have resided there for
thousands of years, no matter what their religion was. Some Palestinians are
Jews, some Muslims, some Druze, and some Catholics, Orthodox, and atheists.
Judaism as a religion has no more rights in occupied Palestine than Judaism
in Italy has!
Shlomo
wrote:
> "Shlomo" <stanle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> | And the Arab liars, like ElParedon, who believe their own lies are the
> | cause of their own naqba 60 years ago, and which still goes on today.
>
> That is not true.
>
> If the zionists had not started arriving in their thousands in the mid
> 1930s, the Arabs would still be living in peace alongside the Jews in the
> region.
The Zionists RETURNED to our ANCESTRAL HOMELAND as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS
starting around 1878. They had the LEGAL PERMISSION of the LEGAL
GOVERNMENT to do so.
Those Jews living in Israel have a much stronger ANCESTRAL claim than
do most residents of the America's and Australia, in that most
residents of the latter have no ancestral tie older than 450 years,
while we Jews have an ancestral tie to Israel going back at least 2500
years (and this is established FACT, and yes, there is archeological
evidence of this, or do you deny that the Germans built gas chambers
in Poland and that they stuffed Jews into them before pumping in
cyanide gas as well?).
The Zionists had the LEGAL RIGHT to arrive by the thousands in the
1930's, and they did so under the laws of the LEGAL GOVERNMENT.
Furthermore, the Arab land owners were very happy to see them come,
because it meant they had cash customers for otherwise worthless land.
> You are a liar.
You have no concept of reality.
Shlomo
The Jewish religion began as tribal nations in what the Romans named
Palestine in the 130's. As a result we Jews have an historical,
cultural, and ancestral tie to the area.
Those Jews who began the RETURN to Zion in 1878 came as LEGAL
IMMIGRANTS; they didn't "conquer" the place; rather, they LEGALLY
PURCHASED what was theirs.
When the LEGAL GOVERNMENT decided to turn the area over to the LOCAL
RESIDENTS, they formed TWO nations out of Palestine, with one section
containing a supermajority Jewish population, so yes, the government
would be formed by Jews, in the same way that Moslems formed the
government of Pakistan and Hindus the government of India about a year
before (i.e., both partitions of both nations were ruled by the
majority in that partition; what's wrong with that?).
It's only because the Arabs decided not to build their nation in
Palestine, and instead tried to ethnic-cleanse the Jewish partition of
Jews, that the so-called naqba occurred. Maybe, after 60 years, the
Arabs will finally stop believing their own lies, stop denying the
realities of Zionism, stop denying the legitimacy of the LEGAL
GOVERNMENTS of Palestine going back to 1878, and start building a
nation they'll be proud to hand over to their children.
Truth Will Out
| On May 29, 9:31 pm, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@all_times.net>
| wrote:
| > "Shlomo" <stanle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|
| > | And the Arab liars, like ElParedon, who believe their own lies are the
| > | cause of their own naqba 60 years ago, and which still goes on today.
| >
| > That is not true.
| >
| > If the zionists had not started arriving in their thousands in the mid
| > 1930s, the Arabs would still be living in peace alongside the Jews in
the
| > region.
|
| The Zionists RETURNED to our ANCESTRAL HOMELAND as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS
It wasn't the few tho arrived in the late 1800s who caused the problem,
Shlomo. It was the zionazis who commenced arriving in great numbers during
the mid 1930s. Actually, they persecuted the resident Jews as much as they
did the resident Arabs.
As for the ancestral homeland - that is a lot of religious twaddle. "God
gave it to us" has no legal binding on any party.
Truth Will Out
| On May 29, 9:39 pm, "ElParedon" <ser...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| > Judaism is a religion, not a race or nationality. Present residents of
| > occupied Palestine, ARE NOT Palestinians who have resided there for
| > thousands of years, no matter what their religion was. Some Palestinians
are
| > Jews, some Muslims, some Druze, and some Catholics, Orthodox, and
atheists.
| > Judaism as a religion has no more rights in occupied Palestine than
Judaism
| > in Italy has!
|
| The Jewish religion began as tribal nations in what the Romans named
| Palestine in the 130's. As a result we Jews have an historical,
| cultural, and ancestral tie to the area.
|
| Those Jews who began the RETURN to Zion in 1878 came as LEGAL
| IMMIGRANTS; they didn't "conquer" the place; rather, they LEGALLY
| PURCHASED what was theirs.
They legally purchased very small tracts of land. No argument there.
Those who arrived in the late 1800s were not the problem, Shlomo. It was the
zionista who arrived mid 1930s who were the instigators of the strife we
feel the fallout from to this very day.
They persecuted the resident Jews equally as harshly as they persecuted the
resident Arabs.
|
| When the LEGAL GOVERNMENT decided to turn the area over to the LOCAL
| RESIDENTS, they formed TWO nations out of Palestine, with one section
| containing a supermajority Jewish population, so yes, the government
| would be formed by Jews, in the same way that Moslems formed the
| government of Pakistan and Hindus the government of India about a year
| before (i.e., both partitions of both nations were ruled by the
| majority in that partition; what's wrong with that?).
No legal government decided any such thing. The United Nations, who did not
have any legal status to do so, declared in an unbinding General Assembly
resolution to partition the land.
|
| It's only because the Arabs decided not to build their nation in
| Palestine, and instead tried to ethnic-cleanse the Jewish partition of
| Jews, that the so-called naqba occurred. Maybe, after 60 years, the
| Arabs will finally stop believing their own lies, stop denying the
| realities of Zionism, stop denying the legitimacy of the LEGAL
| GOVERNMENTS of Palestine going back to 1878, and start building a
| nation they'll be proud to hand over to their children.
You confusing events from the late 1800s with events of tthe 1930s through
to 1948. The events have no bearing on each other whatsoever. NONE.
The Arabs were forced to give up their land as a result of years of
terrorism waged by the zionists in Palestine, continuous lobbying by the
zionists in Britain and the US, the zionists calling in favours for having
managed to get the US to join WWI and WWII, and the guilt they built up over
the grossly exaggerated Holocaust.
Do you understand now, or should I draw pictures for you?
I'll Always Be Here
Shlomo, shut up.
You are a fucking idot.
Shlomo
wrote:
> As for the ancestral homeland - that is a lot of religious twaddle. "God
> gave it to us" has no legal binding on any party.
Agreed, but it doesn't change the FACT that the RETURN was by LEGAL
IMMIGRATION and LEGAL LAND PURCHASE.
Why do you ignore this little inconvenient truth?
Shlomo
wrote:
> "Shlomo" <stanle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> |
> | When the LEGAL GOVERNMENT decided to turn the area over to the LOCAL
> | RESIDENTS, they formed TWO nations out of Palestine, with one section
> | containing a supermajority Jewish population, so yes, the government
> | would be formed by Jews, in the same way that Moslems formed the
> | government of Pakistan and Hindus the government of India about a year
> | before (i.e., both partitions of both nations were ruled by the
> | majority in that partition; what's wrong with that?).
>
> No legal government decided any such thing. The United Nations, who did not
> have any legal status to do so, declared in an unbinding General Assembly
> resolution to partition the land.
Ah yes, one of the many Arab lies in the PLO Charter. If decisions by
the LEGAL GOVERNMENT are an inconvenient truth, just deny their
validity.
> | It's only because the Arabs decided not to build their nation in
> | Palestine, and instead tried to ethnic-cleanse the Jewish partition of
> | Jews, that the so-called naqba occurred. Maybe, after 60 years, the
> | Arabs will finally stop believing their own lies, stop denying the
> | realities of Zionism, stop denying the legitimacy of the LEGAL
> | GOVERNMENTS of Palestine going back to 1878, and start building a
> | nation they'll be proud to hand over to their children.
>
> You confusing events from the late 1800s with events of tthe 1930s through
> to 1948. The events have no bearing on each other whatsoever. NONE.
>
> The Arabs were forced to give up their land as a result of years of
> terrorism waged by the zionists in Palestine, continuous lobbying by the
> zionists in Britain and the US, the zionists calling in favours for having
> managed to get the US to join WWI and WWII, and the guilt they built up over
> the grossly exaggerated Holocaust.
There is no issue that the Zionists LEGALLY PURCHASED land from the
LEGAL OWNERS prior to 1948. And from 1948 onward, it's a case of
"sorry, but when you try to ethnic-cleanse Palestine of Jews, there
are consequences".
A few other things-
1. The Arabs allied themselves with the Nazis during WWII. Looking
at it in that context, they got off easy.
2. By your own words, "and the guilt they built up over the grossly
exaggerated Holocaust", you have now shown the world that you have
zero credibility; thank you.
Truth Will Out
| On May 29, 10:49 pm, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@all_times.net>
| wrote:
|
| > As for the ancestral homeland - that is a lot of religious twaddle. "God
| > gave it to us" has no legal binding on any party.
|
| Agreed, but it doesn't change the FACT that the RETURN was by LEGAL
| IMMIGRATION and LEGAL LAND PURCHASE.
No it was not.
A few Jews purchased land in the late 1800s. That was all above board and
legal.
The zionazis, when they commenced arriving mid 1930s, had no intention of
purchasing anything. They immediately set to, engaging in terrorist
activities to enable them to swipe the country.
|
| Why do you ignore this little inconvenient truth?
It's a truth which you have attempted to attach to a much later event, you
silly person.
The zionists who arrived mid 1930s treated very badly, those Jews who
settled in Palestine in the late 1800s.
|
Truth Will Out
| On May 29, 10:56 pm, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@all_times.net>
| wrote:
| > "Shlomo" <stanle...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|
| > |
| > | When the LEGAL GOVERNMENT decided to turn the area over to the LOCAL
| > | RESIDENTS, they formed TWO nations out of Palestine, with one section
| > | containing a supermajority Jewish population, so yes, the government
| > | would be formed by Jews, in the same way that Moslems formed the
| > | government of Pakistan and Hindus the government of India about a year
| > | before (i.e., both partitions of both nations were ruled by the
| > | majority in that partition; what's wrong with that?).
| >
| > No legal government decided any such thing. The United Nations, who did
not
| > have any legal status to do so, declared in an unbinding General
Assembly
| > resolution to partition the land.
|
| Ah yes, one of the many Arab lies in the PLO Charter. If decisions by
| the LEGAL GOVERNMENT are an inconvenient truth, just deny their
| validity.
What legal government?
|
| > | It's only because the Arabs decided not to build their nation in
| > | Palestine, and instead tried to ethnic-cleanse the Jewish partition of
| > | Jews, that the so-called naqba occurred. Maybe, after 60 years, the
| > | Arabs will finally stop believing their own lies, stop denying the
| > | realities of Zionism, stop denying the legitimacy of the LEGAL
| > | GOVERNMENTS of Palestine going back to 1878, and start building a
| > | nation they'll be proud to hand over to their children.
| >
| > You confusing events from the late 1800s with events of tthe 1930s
through
| > to 1948. The events have no bearing on each other whatsoever. NONE.
| >
| > The Arabs were forced to give up their land as a result of years of
| > terrorism waged by the zionists in Palestine, continuous lobbying by the
| > zionists in Britain and the US, the zionists calling in favours for
having
| > managed to get the US to join WWI and WWII, and the guilt they built up
over
| > the grossly exaggerated Holocaust.
|
| There is no issue that the Zionists LEGALLY PURCHASED land from the
| LEGAL OWNERS prior to 1948. And from 1948 onward, it's a case of
| "sorry, but when you try to ethnic-cleanse Palestine of Jews, there
| are consequences".
What a crock. The Jews owned less than 7% of the land in 1948 before they
pre-empted a war by swiping the rest of it.
|
| A few other things-
|
| 1. The Arabs allied themselves with the Nazis during WWII. Looking
| at it in that context, they got off easy.
Many Jews, particularly zionists, also allied themselves with the Nazis.
|
| 2. By your own words, "and the guilt they built up over the grossly
| exaggerated Holocaust", you have now shown the world that you have
| zero credibility; thank you.
I dont' think so.
I'm actually in very good company. The smart money does not believe the
Jew's version of history.
|
|
|
Eli Grubman
<Truthwillout@all_times.net> wrote:
>
>"Shlomo" <stan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:06c06c05-e1f9-4a95...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>| On May 29, 9:39 pm, "ElParedon" <ser...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>| > Judaism is a religion, not a race or nationality. Present residents of
>| > occupied Palestine, ARE NOT Palestinians who have resided there for
>| > thousands of years, no matter what their religion was. Some Palestinians
>are
>| > Jews, some Muslims, some Druze, and some Catholics, Orthodox, and
>atheists.
>| > Judaism as a religion has no more rights in occupied Palestine than
>Judaism
>| > in Italy has!
>|
>| The Jewish religion began as tribal nations in what the Romans named
>| Palestine in the 130's. As a result we Jews have an historical,
>| cultural, and ancestral tie to the area.
>|
>| Those Jews who began the RETURN to Zion in 1878 came as LEGAL
>| IMMIGRANTS; they didn't "conquer" the place; rather, they LEGALLY
>| PURCHASED what was theirs.
>
>They legally purchased very small tracts of land. No argument there.
You can buy as many houses and apartments as you like. You can't buy
streets, parks, rivers etc.
Eli
dsha...@hotmail.com
> > > This article is by Efraim Karsh, an extremely controversial historian
>
> > Karsh isn't controversial, and he's several cuts above the David
> > Dukesque articles you post. But you never let facts get in your way,
> > and won't now, so just go back to your tequila.
> > Deborah
On May 29, 5:43 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Got your web site back up yet, Rosen?
Have you stopped molesting Mexican children yet, Humper?
dsha...@hotmail.com
> > > wasn't already said by "old historians." One difference between the
> > > two groups is that the latter made extensive use of Arabic and other
> > > sources, while the former did not.
> > I compare the "old historian" attitude to a "Grand Jury". Their
> > job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use all
> > sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
> > The more primary sources they can find, the more
> > happy they are.
On May 29, 5:42 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, they don't "find the truth".
That they certainly don't.
>If that were their job there
> would be no further reason for a trial.
> > The "new historians" are more like a prosecutor who decides
> > to get a conviction, no matter if the defendant is guilty or not.
> You haven't read them.
Neither has Humper, therefore his opinion is as irrelevant as his
baseless comments.
Deborah
Eli Grubman
You're thinking of Joe B'runo, whore Nyob.
Eli
B.H. Cramer
<dsha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:df5600e6-e6ec-467b...@g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Idiot.
That's Joe Bruno, aka Arthur Tandy, you disgusting piece of slime.
>
Shlomo
> On Fri, 30 May 2008 02:56:23 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
> >| The Jewish religion began as tribal nations in what the Romans named
> >| Palestine in the 130's. As a result we Jews have an historical,
> >| cultural, and ancestral tie to the area.
> >|
> >| Those Jews who began the RETURN to Zion in 1878 came as LEGAL
> >| IMMIGRANTS; they didn't "conquer" the place; rather, they LEGALLY
> >| PURCHASED what was theirs.
>
> >They legally purchased very small tracts of land. No argument there.
>
> You can buy as many houses and apartments as you like. You can't buy
> streets, parks, rivers etc.
But you can build streets and parks on tracts of land you buy.
Look Eli (or whatever your real name is), there is NO DISPUTE that the
Zionists were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. There is NO DISPUTE that the Zionists
LEGALLY PURCHASED LAND. There is NO DISPUTE that their sovereignty
over Palestine was going to be limited to an area in which they were
already a supermajority of the population.
Everything over and above this came as a result of a failed ethnic-
cleansing attempt by the ARABS to drive these LEGAL RESIDENTS off
their LEGALLY OWNED land.
These are the inconvenient truths that the Arabs don't want to hear.
Eli Grubman
<stan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On May 30, 12:09 am, Eli Grubman <eli.grub...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 May 2008 02:56:23 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
>
>> >| The Jewish religion began as tribal nations in what the Romans named
>> >| Palestine in the 130's. As a result we Jews have an historical,
>> >| cultural, and ancestral tie to the area.
>> >|
>> >| Those Jews who began the RETURN to Zion in 1878 came as LEGAL
>> >| IMMIGRANTS; they didn't "conquer" the place; rather, they LEGALLY
>> >| PURCHASED what was theirs.
>>
>> >They legally purchased very small tracts of land. No argument there.
>>
>> You can buy as many houses and apartments as you like. You can't buy
>> streets, parks, rivers etc.
>
>But you can build streets and parks on tracts of land you buy.
Don't be an a"h. You can't buy existing infrastructure.
>Look Eli (or whatever your real name is), there is NO DISPUTE that the
>Zionists were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
Look, Shmucko (or whatever the fuck your real name is) there is NO
DISPUTE that the Zionists were non-indigenous to the region.
>There is NO DISPUTE that the Zionists
>LEGALLY PURCHASED LAND.
There is NO DISPUTE that the Zionists DID NOT LEGALLY PURCHASE rivers,
streets etc.
> There is NO DISPUTE that their sovereignty
>over Palestine was going to be limited to an area in which they were
>already a supermajority of the population.
There is NO DISPUTE that their sovereignty was taken by force.
>Everything over and above this came as a result of a failed ethnic-
>cleansing attempt by the ARABS to drive these LEGAL RESIDENTS off
>their LEGALLY OWNED land.
>
>These are the inconvenient truths that the Arabs don't want to hear.
You wouldn't know the truth if it landed on your head and took a dump.
Eli
B.H. Cramer
On May 30, 12:09 am, Eli Grubman <eli.grub...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 May 2008 02:56:23 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
> >| The Jewish religion began as tribal nations in what the Romans named
> >| Palestine in the 130's. As a result we Jews have an historical,
> >| cultural, and ancestral tie to the area.
> >|
> >| Those Jews who began the RETURN to Zion in 1878 came as LEGAL
> >| IMMIGRANTS; they didn't "conquer" the place; rather, they LEGALLY
> >| PURCHASED what was theirs.
>
> >They legally purchased very small tracts of land. No argument there.
>
> You can buy as many houses and apartments as you like. You can't buy
> streets, parks, rivers etc.
But you can build streets and parks on tracts of land you buy.
Look Eli (or whatever your real name is), there is NO DISPUTE that the
Zionists were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. There is NO DISPUTE that the Zionists
LEGALLY PURCHASED LAND. There is NO DISPUTE that their sovereignty
over Palestine was going to be limited to an area in which they were
already a supermajority of the population.
There most certainly are disputes, dickhead. Are you blind? Are you deaf?
Everything over and above this came as a result of a failed ethnic-
cleansing attempt by the ARABS to drive these LEGAL RESIDENTS off
their LEGALLY OWNED land.
Fuck off with your whinging and lies, you fucking retarded jew cunt.
FG-C
Jesus Christ, boy. Are you for real? Tell me you're just practising for an
idiot.
>
>
Tilly
"Shlomo" <stan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a37a0e2a-3930-4826...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 29, 7:52 pm, "Truth Will Out" <Truthwillout@all_times.net>
> wrote:
>
>> The faccts are what ElParedon posted.
>>
>> What you post are lies.
>
> And the Arab liars, like ElParedon, who believe their own lies are the
> cause of their own naqba 60 years ago, and which still goes on today.
>
> Maybe had the Arab liars who believe their own lies tried to build a
> nation in 1947, instead of trying to ethnic-cleanse Palestine of Jews,
> they would have their own prosperous society today instead of the
> squalor that their path of self-destruction led them to.
Didn't Miriam tell you to shut up? Didn't she?
I'm telling you now too. Shut the fuck up. You're only providing ammunition
to the anti-Semites.
Piss off and shut your mouth.
Tilly
>
>
hille...@yahoo.com
> > are. The future generations will probably view them
> > ashttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko
On May 29, 5:44 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm sure Lysenko hoped he too would be vindicated. He has not.
Plenty of good scientists had nice theories that were wrong.
That's not the issue.
The issue is that when a real scientist makes an experiment
that contradicts his theory he still publishes it. He says
something like "I did X, expected Y, got Z. I can't explain
the result". Lysenko, like the new historians, did not have
this honesty. He suppressed data that contradicted the
theory. Note the "old biology" people, like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Vavilov
were vindicated. It just shows that the post-Stalin
Soviet scientists had more integrity than the main-
stream British "historians".
IMO the reason for that is the tenured professors
are much more Marxist, in the bad sense of the word,
than the post-Stalin Soviet scientists. E.g.
Andrei Sakharov who said about Lysenko:
"He is responsible for the shameful backwardness
of Soviet biology and of genetics in particular, for
the dissemination of pseudo-scientific views, for
adventurism, for the degradation of learning"
I still wait to a British historian who will have
the guts to say something similar about
Ilan Pappé and Avi Shlaim.
hille...@yahoo.com
> > job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use all
> > sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
> > The more primary sources they can find, the more
> > happy they are.
On May 29, 5:42 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, they don't "find the truth". If that were their job there
> would be no further reason for a trial.
Had you known a little bit about US law then you would know
that the Grand Jury has some extra tools. You can
"take the Fifth" in a criminal trial but not in front of a Grand
Jury. E.g. if you killed somebody you still have to tell the
truth to a Grand Jury but you can take the Fifth in a criminal
trial. And the criminal trial Jury may find itself in a situation
that it has to find a guilty person as "not guilty" for only one
reason, the prosecution could not find enough evidence.
Deadrat
71933d...@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
>> > I compare the "old historian" attitude to a "Grand Jury". Their
>> > job is to "find the truth", not to punish the "guilty". They use
all
>> > sources in order to answer one question: "what really happened?"
>> > The more primary sources they can find, the more
>> > happy they are.
>
> On May 29, 5:42 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I'm sorry, they don't "find the truth". If that were their job there
>> would be no further reason for a trial.
>
> Had you known a little bit about US law then you would know
> that the Grand Jury has some extra tools. You can
> "take the Fifth" in a criminal trial but not in front of a Grand
> Jury.
Where did you get this idea? In the US, you may not be compelled to
testify against yourself if doing so might put you in legal jeopardy.
Anywhere.
> E.g. if you killed somebody you still have to tell the
> truth to a Grand Jury but you can take the Fifth in a criminal
> trial.
You do not have to implicate yourself in a crime before a grand jury if
doing so puts you in legal jeopardy. The state may remove that jeopardy
by granting a witness immunity from prosecution, in which case the state
may take steps to compel testimony from the witness.
> And the criminal trial Jury may find itself in a situation
> that it has to find a guilty person as "not guilty" for only one
> reason, the prosecution could not find enough evidence.
In fact, juries may fail to convict a defendant for any reason
whatsoever. Juries are enjoined to follow the law as set down by the
judge and determine guilt by the appropriate standard solely from the
evidence presented. But their verdicts stand and their judgment may not
be questioned except in the instance of their own misconduct.
hille...@yahoo.com
> > that the Grand Jury has some extra tools. You can
> > "take the Fifth" in a criminal trial but not in front of a Grand
> > Jury.
On May 30, 10:38 am, Deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:
> Where did you get this idea? In the US, you may not be compelled to
> testify against yourself if doing so might put you in legal jeopardy.
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise
infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of
a grand jury,"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dear Legal Expert, can you please tell us what is the origin
of the text above? Feel free to google.
Deadrat
9bec35...@a32g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
I don't need to Google. That's part of the 5th Amendment to the US
Constitution. It means that no one may be subject to trial for a federal
criminal offense unless a grand jury decides that there's probable cause
to bring that person to trial. The grand jury may hear evidence
presented by a prosecutor (in which case it may choose to hand up an
indictment) or do its own investigation (in which case it may choose to
issue a presentment). Unless it does one or the other, a federal
criminal trial may not proceed. In theory, the grand jury provides a
check by ordinary citizens against arbitrary and unfair action of
prosecutors.
Note that this provision of the Constitution does not bind the states,
some of which have grand juries and others of which don't.
If you'd finished reading the amendment, you'd have come across the
following clause:
<quote>
[No person] ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness
against himself, ....
</quote>
"Criminal case" includes grand jury proceedings. Targets, i.e.,
potential defendants, may be subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury,
but this rarely happens since the target may simply invoke the privelege
against self-incrimination and refuse to answer any questions with
impunity.
May I clear up any other confusions you have about US law?
Eli Grubman
"Held to answer" is not the same thing as "self-incrimination".
Read the whole Amendment, a"h.
Eli
Deadrat
news:3fn04412hkojstf5a...@4ax.com:
Of course not. "Held to answer" means "must stand trial." In federal
cases, you can't be tried by a jury of your peers unless you are first
indicted by a grand jury.
> Read the whole Amendment, a"h.
What an amusing irony! I've read the whole Amendment, where I find what
you've apparently missed, namely the following:
<quote>
... [No person] shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness
against himself, ....
</quote>
Here "criminal case" means any proceedings that might put a person in
jeopardy of criminal punishment, and that includes grand juries. In no
venue in the US is it permissible to compel a witness to give testimony
that might tend to incriminate him. Unless the state guanantees that
such testimony is without peril to the witness, i.e., by giving him
immunity from prosecution.
Is there anything else about US law that I can clear up for you?
> Eli
Jewdas
Why? Are you afraid of the competition?
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Jewdas
Nope. Not Joe... He has never been able to get it up. They whacked to
much off at his Bris. Besides that she doesn't think.
>
> Eli
Panta Rhei
> Eli Grubman <eli.g...@googlemail.com> wrote in
> news:3fn04412hkojstf5a...@4ax.com:
>
> Is there anything else about US law that I can clear up for you?
>
>> Eli
Gee, in what kind of groups this retard (Eli Grabmen, right now) is
trolling! I doubt you can EVER clear something up for THAT kind of perverted
dolt! In case you're interested, which I doubt, you may check his trolling
history! ;-)
Eli Grubman
wrote:
Did you try to babble something in English again, Pants? You failed!
LOL
Fuck'up.
Eli
Panta Rhei
newsgroups, writes:
<snip the useless racist pig's known, useless garbage>
Groups removed.
...and f'up to the poor psycho's homegroup
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, aka trolling dumb Rever'nerd and stalking Susan in Jewish
>newsgroups, writes:
>
<snip Pants' attempted English on the Usenet>
LOL
>Groups removed.
Groups restored.
>...and f'up to the poor psycho's homegroup
...and fuck'up to original group.
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
><BG> Groups removed again. Can you restore them again, clown?
You bet, asshole! There is no escape for Grik retards like you! LOL
>
>...and f'up to your homegroup: alt.idiots
...and fuck'up back.
Eli
Panta Rhei
newsgroups, writes:
<snip the degenerate racist swine's sick drivel>
Groups removed, clown!
Ooh this is fun kicking the poor Rever'nerd around all over Usenet!
Hahahahaaaa....!!!
You are gonna bleed some more still! Just wait, my precious punching bag!
F'up
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, aka trolling dumb Rever'nerd and stalking Susan in Jewish
>newsgroups, writes:
>
><snip the degenerate racist swine's sick drivel>
>
>
>Groups removed, clown!
>
>Ooh this is fun kicking the poor Rever'nerd around all over Usenet!
>Hahahahaaaa....!!!
What happened to "the Usenet", Pants? LOL
>You are gonna bleed some more still! Just wait, my precious punching bag!
You are really gonna bleed when Bubba greeks you, Pants! You just
can't wait, can you?
>F'up
Fuck'up.
Eli
Panta Rhei
newsgroups, writes:
<snip this hilarious retard's usual garbage>
Groups removed
F'up
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, aka trolling dumb Rever'nerd and stalking Susan in Jewish
>newsgroups, writes:
<snip the Grik loony's irrational rant!>
>Groups removed
Groups restored.
>F'up
fuck'up.
Eli
ourfreedom...@lycos.com
WHAT 'FREEDOM OF THE PRESS' ACTUALLY MEANS IN ISRAEL: 'New Owner
Purges Reporters At Israel's Haaretz Newspaper' - No More Criticisms
Of The Brutal Israeli Occupation To Be Allowed In This Israeli Paper?
GERMAN MINISTER: 'As Things Look, Israel May Well Attack Iran Soon' -
Warmongers Soon To Be On The Loose Again!
New Owner Purges Reporters At Israel's Haaretz
By Ed Corrigan,
via Rense.Com
5-31-8
A new German owner has purchased Haaretz and a "Putsch is being
carried out among reporting staff," in the most important and liberal
Zionist paper in Israel. According to inside sources, the new owner
has carried out a rough, sittingroom survey that revealed that "the
occupation doesn't sell newspapers" and they are therefore
concentrating on the business world (ie. The Marker).
Twilight Zone, Gideon Levy's regular Friday column, has been scrapped,
Amira Hass has been degraded to freelance on half salary, Meron
Rapaport has been fired and Akiva Eldar has lost at least one half
page a week.
The paper frequently allowed journalists critical of the Israeli
occupation to publish articles that exposed the reality of the
occupation to the Israeli population and was circulated around the
world. The new editorial direction is disturbing news. Haaretz was one
of the few decent Israeli media outlets and showed that in Israel
there was some respect for freedom of the press and critical
discussion. This is a repeat of the situation when Conrad Black*
bought the Jerusalem Post and hired an Israeli censor to be publisher.
The decent journalists all quit in protest, including Benny Morris
back when he still had a moral conscience.
DENIED ENTRY
It reflects a more disturbing trend. Norman Finkelstein was recently
denied entry into Israel and the West Bank. Bishop Desmond Tutu was
denied entry into Israel too. Prominent Palestinian journalists are
routinely denied exit visas by the Israelis to leave the Occupied
Territories to go on speaking tours and a group of Palestinians
students from Gaza were also recently denied exit visas to attend
American universities after being granted Fulbright Scholarships from
the American Government.
It appears that the Israelis are closing down many if not all of the
sources of critical information coming out of Israel. The hypocracy of
it all is that Israel complains that when the British Academic Union
proposes a boycott of Israeli academic institutions as a way to
pressure Israel and to protest Israel's policies toward the
Palestinians the Israelis start to scream that the proposed boycott is
a violation of freedom of speech and a violation of academic freedom.
Israeli authorities have been crushing academic freedom and free
speech for Palestinians, and even Israeli critics, for decades.
Israel does not want its own population and the rest of the world to
know what it is doing to the Palestinians.
Source: http://www.rense.com/general82/purge.htm
________________________
As Things Look, Israel May Well Attack Iran Soon
By Joschka Fischer
Commentary,
Daily Star, Lebanon,
Friday, May 30, 2008
As a result of misguided American policy, the threat of another
military confrontation hangs like a dark cloud over the Middle East.
The United States' enemies have been strengthened, and Iran - despite
being branded as a member of the so-called "axis of evil" - has been
catapulted into regional hegemony. Iran could never have achieved this
on its own, certainly not in such a short time.
A hitherto latent rivalry between Iran and Israel thus has been
transformed into an open struggle for dominance in the Middle East.
The result has been the emergence of some surprising, if not bizarre,
alliances: Iran, Syria, Hizbullah, Hamas and the American-backed,
Shiite-dominated Iraq are facing Israel, Saudi Arabia, and most of the
other Sunni Arab states, all of which feel existentially threatened by
Iran's ascendance.
The danger of a major confrontation has been heightened further by a
series of factors: persistently high oil prices, which have created
new financial and political opportunities for Iran; the possible
defeat of the West and its regional allies in proxy wars in Gaza and
Lebanon; and the United Nations Security Council's failure to induce
Iran to accept even a temporary freeze of its nuclear program.
Iran's nuclear program is the decisive factor in this equation, for it
threatens irreversibly the region's strategic balance. That Iran - a
country whose president never tires of calling for Israel's
annihilation and that threatens Israel's northern and southern borders
through its massive support of proxy wars waged by Hizbullah and Hamas
- might one day have missiles with nuclear warheads is Israel's worst
security nightmare. Politics is not just about facts, but also about
perceptions. Whether or not a perception is accurate is beside the
point, because it nonetheless leads to decisions.
This applies in particular when the perception concerns what the
parties consider to be threats to their very existence. Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's threats of annihilation are taken
seriously in Israel because of the trauma of the Holocaust. And most
Arab governments share the fear of a nuclear Iran. Earlier this month,
Israel celebrated its 60th birthday, and US President George W. Bush
went to Jerusalem to play a leading part in the commemoration. But
those who had expected that his visit would mainly be about the
stalled negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians were bitterly
disappointed. Bush's central topic, including his speech to Israel's
Knesset, was Iran. Bush had promised to bring the Middle East conflict
closer to a resolution before the end of his term this year. But his
final visit to Israel seemed to indicate that his objective was
different: he seemed to be planning, together with Israel, to end the
Iranian nuclear program - and to do so by military, rather than by
diplomatic, means.
Anyone following the press in Israel during the anniversary
celebrations and listening closely to what was said in Jerusalem did
not have to be a prophet to understand that matters are coming to a
head. Consider the following:
First, "stop the appeasement!" is a demand raised across the political
spectrum in Israel - and what is meant is the nuclear threat emanating
from Iran.
Second, while Israel celebrated, Defense Minister Ehud Barak was
quoted as saying that a life-and-death military confrontation was a
distinct possibility.
Third, the outgoing commander of the Israeli Air Force declared that
the air force was capable of any mission, no matter how difficult, to
protect the country's security. The destruction of a Syrian nuclear
facility last year, and the lack of any international reaction to it,
were viewed as an example for the coming action against Iran.
Fourth, the Israeli wish list for US arms deliveries, discussed with
the American president, focused mainly on the improvement of the
attack capabilities and precision of the Israeli Air Force.
Fifth, diplomatic initiatives and UN sanctions when it comes to Iran
are seen as hopelessly ineffective.
And sixth, with the approaching end of the Bush presidency and
uncertainty about his successor's policy, the window of opportunity
for Israeli action is seen as potentially closing.
The last two factors carry special weight. While Israeli military
intelligence is on record as saying that Iran is expected to cross the
red line on the path to nuclear power between 2010 and 2015 at the
earliest, the feeling in Israel is that the political window of
opportunity to attack is now, during the last months of Bush's
presidency.
Although it is acknowledged in Israel that an attack on Iran's nuclear
facilities would involve grave and hard-to-assess risks, the choice
between acceptance of an Iranian bomb and an attempt at its military
destruction, with all the attendant consequences, is clear. Israel
won't stand by and wait for matters to take their course.
The Middle East is drifting toward a new great confrontation in 2008.
Iran must understand that without a diplomatic solution in the coming
months, a dangerous military conflict is very likely to erupt. It is
high time for serious negotiations to begin.
The most recent offer by the six powers - the UN Security Council's
five permanent members plus Germany - is on the table, and it goes
very far in accommodating Iran's interests. The decisive question,
however, will be whether it will be possible to freeze the Iranian
nuclear program for the duration of the negotiations to avoid a
military confrontation before these negotiations are completed. Should
this newest attempt fail, things will soon get serious. Deadly
serious.
(Joschka Fischer, Germany's foreign minister and vice chancellor from
1998 to 2005, led
Germany's Green Party for nearly 20 years. THE DAILY STAR publishes
this commentary in collaboration with Project Syndicate-Institute for
Human Sciences (c) www.project-syndicate.org).
SOURCE: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=92572
(Please feel free to re-post widely)
Panta Rhei
newsgroups, writes:
<snip this poor psycho's useless garbage>
Groups removed and f'up
Mirelle
wrote:
http://aliyaallzionists.wordpress.com/zionist-cannibalistic-recipe-2/
Deborah Sharavi Oct 11 2004, 11:32 pm
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:17:58 +0200, “Heinrich”
<Hein...@mailgate.org> wrote:
>As usual, you left out the part about the IDF eating their palestinian
>prey after they kill them. It’s the reason the dead palestinian
>numbers are so low and the missing count is so high.
Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
8 small sage leaves
1 Palestinian Kid (can substitute pork, rattlesnake, or vulture)
2 Tbsp. chicken fat
1 medium onion, chopped coarsely
1 carrot, chopped coarsely
1 small turnip, chopped coarsely
2 cups apple cider or apple juice
1 bouquet garni made by tying together
3 sprigs of parsley, 2 sprigs of thyme and 1/2 bay leaf
1/4 cup parsley, chopped
Divide the sage leaves into equal portions and dress the kid.
In a large flameproof casserole, melt the fat over a high flame.
Brown the kid in the melted fat, and then remove and reduce the
flame. Add the onion, carrot and turnip, cover and let simmer for an
hour.
Place the kid on vegetables and pour on the cider. Bring to a boil,
add the bouquet garni, cover and transfer to a medium oven for 2
hours.
Remove the kid from the casserole and set aside to keep warm.
Strain the liquids in the casserole, pressing down on the
vegetables to squeeze out the liquids.
Place the kid on a warmed serving platter, pour over some of the
juices and sprinkle with the parsley.
Serve the remaining juices separately.
Serves lots of Pallies.
Deborah
http://tinyurl.com/ddkek (8th post)
________________________________
# 25 Franklin Brown Says:
June 12, 2008 at 12:51 am
What nonsense!
The posting clearly states that it’s a Palestinian recipe, NOT Israeli
or Zionist. And everyone knows that a kid is a baby goat.
Why you people have to twist every single thing into something
sinister is beyond me. You are just a bunch of opportunistic racists,
nothing more, nothing less.
# 54 David Goodman Says:
June 23, 2008 at 9:59 pm
All you have to do is look at the most horrendous sights of inter-
racial or inter-religious disputes, and see that more than 80% of the
cases involve muslim fundamentalists.
OK, there are extremists on every side, we have had our share of noisy
minorities, however, in most societies, the noisy extremists do not
call the cards. They are a minority, noisy, the role of the doom
profits - everyone has them - marginally. But, where the Palestinians
and Arab countries in general are concerned, this minority is the
leadership, and it is extreme in it’s views, in it’s goals and
aspirations. Terrorism, bombings, killings, anything bloody will do.
Imagine having a neighbor like this, and let me see YOU tell HIM what
he should and shouldn’t do.
P.S. The recipe calls for goat, a kid is a goat. As can bee seen by
the addition of: (can substitute pork, rattlesnake, or vulture).
# 55 That's Insane Says:
June 24, 2008 at 12:51 am
David Goodman, do you still claim “kid” means “goat”?:
Cider-Braised Jewish Kid
8 small sage leaves
1 Jewish Kid (can substitute pork, rattlesnake, or vulture)
2 Tbsp. chicken fat
1 medium onion, chopped coarsely
1 carrot, chopped coarsely
1 small turnip, chopped coarsely
2 cups apple cider or apple juice
1 bouquet garni made by tying together
3 sprigs of parsley, 2 sprigs of thyme and 1/2 bay leaf
1/4 cup parsley, chopped
Divide the sage leaves into equal portions and dress the kid.
In a large flameproof casserole, melt the fat over a high flame.
Brown the kid in the melted fat, and then remove and reduce the
flame. Add the onion, carrot and turnip, cover and let simmer for an
hour.
Place the kid on vegetables and pour on the cider. Bring to a boil,
add the bouquet garni, cover and transfer to a medium oven for 2
hours.
Remove the kid from the casserole and set aside to keep warm.
Strain the liquids in the casserole, pressing down on the
vegetables to squeeze out the liquids.
Place the kid on a warmed serving platter, pour over some of the
juices and sprinkle with the parsley.
Serve the remaining juices separately.
Serves lots of Kikes.
# 56 Grass Is Always Greener Over The Septic Field Says:
June 24, 2008 at 7:11 am
Clever. Franklin Brown & David Goodman’s arguments that kid means
goat, have been shown to be what they are — a lie.
Scratch a liar find a thief. Both men are ZIONISTS, both SUPPORT
THEFT, since that is what ISRAEL is based on — THEFT.
# 57 Mieko Fujimoto Says:
June 25, 2008 at 7:05 am
I am ashamed to say we eat very many foods in Japan that should be
forbidden. I do not. People in my country do. Eating people is
something we would never consider in Japan. I wonder if they eat
people in Israel? How else would this person write a recipe like this?
It is not funny, so what is the point? It must be a real cannibal
recipe. Maybe the person is mentally ill though. It is hard to tell.
Zionist are all mentally ill. They treat Palestinians like America
treated Japan. Two nuclear bombs. Genocide.
# 58 NO MORE WARS FOR ISRAEL Says:
June 26, 2008 at 2:15 am
Deborah Sharavi, do you enjoy being a cannibal?
# 59 Grass Is Always Greener Over The Septic Field Says:
June 28, 2008 at 6:56 pm
When they wanna see
How evil people could be
They’ll just remember
Deborah Sharavi’s “recipe”
http://aliyaallzionists.wordpress.com/zionist-cannibalistic-recipe-2/
Charles G. Says:
July 5, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Inappropriate.
Dead children are not fodder for zionist, demented humor.
Eric Lindstrom Says:
July 6, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Another way for the author to say she wants all Palestinians dead.
Hate is expressed in many forms.
R.C. Says:
July 7, 2008 at 6:07 am
This butcher’s cur is venom-mouthed…
Tania Says:
July 7, 2008 at 6:35 am
Deborah Sharavi probably stuck pins in her dolls and pulled wings off
butterflies.
Matt G. Says:
July 9, 2008 at 2:43 am
If Zionism were Judaism, anti-Semitism would be a moral imperative.
The zionist, cannibalistic “recipe”, proves it.
http://aliyaallzionists.wordpress.com/zionist-cannibalistic-recipe-2/
___________________________________________________
Remember this post of yours, rosen/slime?
To whom it may concern:
Sometimes when I am reading the newsgroups, I may be taken by
something that a participant posts, and I want to read more posts
from
that participant To do this, I usually click more options under that
person's post, and then "Find messages by this author." That
generates a list of every item that the author has posted to any
newsgroup.
I conducted a search on a particular individual today, and this is
the
result of my search:
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?enc_author=0TCTBxYAAAAxHrNNzV1jK52-rVVnknbYys9p7FBvuYqcsrUPIQKVkQ&scoring=d
As you can see, there are TWO authors listed under this individual's
search. I have NEVER seen this before. Every time I've opted to
'find message by an author' I have gotten the listings for ONLY that
author.
How is it possible that two authors have appeared under the same
search?
Thanks in advance!
______________________________________________________
Mirelle
The_Endeavor
56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
says...
> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>
Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
a young goat.
Eli Grubman
Killed by the IDF? I don't think so, jewboi.
Eli
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
What else the dumb psycho Grabmen has been "thinking" over the last SIX
YEARS everyone can read up here:
It's the same miserable retard again, right now posting as Eli Grabmen,
already fully retarded in 2002, posting almost the identical garbage he
keeps still posting today:
http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/tiscali-kook.html
ROTFLOL
--
Rev. Richard Skull about Eli Grabmen: Any sex act involving YOU is
bestiality.
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
>
>
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:13:45 +1000, The_Endeavor
>> <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>says...
>>>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>>
>>>
>>>Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>a young goat.
>>
>> Killed by the IDF? I don't think so, jewboi.
>>
>> Eli
>
<snip illiterate Grik pidgin English>
Kalimera, Pants! Still can't configure your bot to change the
subject lines? That's too bad - looks like you're stuck with whatever
I put in there! LOL
<VBEVBVVEVBVG>
Eli
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
Somehow your trolling, your racism and your abnormalities no more work out
for you in these groups lately as intended.
What happened?
Someone made you bleed heavily? Sure looks like it, you pitiable psycho!
LMAO!
Groups removed
F'up
>
>>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>>writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:13:45 +1000, The_Endeavor
>>> <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>>56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>>says...
>>>>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>>a young goat.
>>>
>
--
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist Grik pig's known useless
illiterate garbage unread>
And yet another day to GET GREEKED for the degenerate, dumb Pantarhea
in these groups! LOL!
Your ordeal will NEVER be over for you, my dear rabid, Semitic
greeking bag! LOL
Boy, is this fun! I just can't get enough of kicking you ridiculous,
psychopathic Grik fool with ease around THE Usenet, ALL DAY EVERY DAY!
LOL!
Groups added
Fuck'up changed
Eli
fla...@verizon.net
Oh, rats - I was hoping we could spin out their biased ignorance for
longer!!
:->
Susan
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
And yet another day to BLEED for the degenerate, dumb Rever'nerd in these
groups! LOL!
Your ordeal will not be over for you for a LONG TIME, my dear rabid,
anti-Semitic punching bag! LOL
I just ENJOY kicking you ridiculous, psychopathic fool with ease around the
Usenet, EVERY DAY! LOL!
Groups removed
F'up
>
>>
>>>
>>>>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>>>>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>>>>writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:13:45 +1000, The_Endeavor
>>>>> <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>>>>56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>>>>says...
>>>>>>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>>>>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>>>>a young goat.
>>>>>
>>>
Eli Grubman
Except you know this had nothing to do w/goats, you thick Irish cunt.
>:->
Is that a jew convert smiley? Or is it the pointed chin seen on
alexmommy.jpg? LOL
This is a jew smiley :-------)
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<pidgin English snipped>
Yassou malaga Pants! There's no need to follow me around SCI, you
know. Everything I post is cross-posted to the Grik newsgroup SCG!
LOL
<EMVBMBVBG>
Eli
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
This is your sort of "sex life" you are having here on the Usenet, right
psycho? <VBG>
And all you are allowed to do recently is to BLEED only!
What a tragedy and what a laugh! LMAO!
F'up
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
ROTFLOL!
Just watch the poor psycho desperately fighing for his online survival!
LMAO!
Boy, are you going to bleed for the rest of your miserable online existence!
Groups removed
F'up
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>>>>>>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>>>>>>writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:13:45 +1000, The_Endeavor
>>>>>>> <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>>>>>>56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>says...
>>>>>>>>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>>>>>>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>>>>>>a young goat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
>
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:23:17 GMT, fla...@verizon.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On 15-Jul-2008, The_Endeavor <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>> 56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>> says...
>>>> > Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>> > Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>> a young goat.
>>>
>>>Oh, rats - I was hoping we could spin out their biased ignorance for
>>>longer!!
>>
>> Except you know this had nothing to do w/goats, you thick Irish cunt.
>>
>>>:->
>>
>> Is that a jew convert smiley? Or is it the pointed chin seen on
>> alexmommy.jpg? LOL
>>
>> This is a jew smiley :-------)
>>
>> Eli
<snip the Grik a"h's pathetic attempt at writing in English>
What's the matter, Pants? Can't find anyone to greek you in the real
world so you come to THE Usenet to get greeked around here? LOL
<VEBGEVEVBVG>
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip the Grik a"h's pathetic attempt at writing in English>
What's the matter, Pants? Can't find anyone to greek you in the real
world so you come to THE Usenet to get greeked around here? LOL
<VEBGEVEVBVG>
Eli
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
Your miserable online life ain't no more what it used to be, eh, dumb
Grabmen? But cheer up! I've elevated your status now to: new preferred
punching bag in these groups! Good for you, innit, poor psycho? LMAO!
And thanks for all the entertainment you keep providing for free, you poor,
miserable clown! LMAO!
Groups removed
F'up
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:23:17 GMT, fla...@verizon.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 15-Jul-2008, The_Endeavor <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>>> 56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>>> says...
>>>>> > Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>>> > Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>>> a young goat.
>>>>
>>>>Oh, rats - I was hoping we could spin out their biased ignorance for
>>>>longer!!
>>>
>>> Except you know this had nothing to do w/goats, you thick Irish cunt.
>>>
>>>>:->
>>>
>>> Is that a jew convert smiley? Or is it the pointed chin seen on
--
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
BTW, can you give me a list of those groups where you still hang out? I
think everyone should know about your official status as everyone's punching
bag on the Usenet!
Good for you, innit, poor psycho? LMAO!
Boy, is this fun! I just can't get enough of kicking you ridiculous,
psychopathic fool with ease around the Usenet, EVERY DAY! LOL!
Groups removed
F'up
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>>>>>>>>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>>>>>>>>writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:13:45 +1000, The_Endeavor
>>>>>>>>> <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>>>>>>>>>>56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>says...
>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>>>>>>>>>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>>>>>>>>>>a young goat.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
B. H. Cramer
"The_Endeavor" <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22e723466...@West.usenet-news.net...
Balls. The shoveari piece of slime thought she was being funny. It blew up
in her ugly, gormy face and has been lying about her intentions ever since.
>
>
>
>
B. H. Cramer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:9x1fk.308$6O4.48@trnddc06...
There is no biased ignorance on our part, cohen. There are lies on your
part. Many of them.
Mirelle
wrote:
> In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
> 56a8760e8...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile.mire...@gmail.com
> says...
> > Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
> > Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
> Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
> a young goat.
Elephant shit.
The sharavi thing says it in response to Henrich saying:
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:17:58 +0200, “Heinrich”
<Heinr...@mailgate.org> wrote:
>As usual, you left out the part about the IDF eating their palestinian
>prey after they kill them. It’s the reason the dead palestinian
>numbers are so low and the missing count is so high.
There is no mention of goats in "Dead Palestinian Numbers".
He specifically says the IDF kill and are eat Palestinians. Not goats.
If the "recipe" were for goat, it would not be in response to what he
said, and, it would not say "Cider-Braised **Palestinian** Kid".
By all means keep defending the indefensible, you are obviously a
zionist.
The more zionists try and defend this indefensible "recipe" the more
evil your zionist, warped minds look.
http://aliyaallzionists.wordpress.com/zionist-cannibalistic-recipe-2/
Deborah Sharavi Oct 11 2004, 11:32 pm
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:17:58 +0200, “Heinrich”
<Hein...@mailgate.org> wrote:
>As usual, you left out the part about the IDF eating their palestinian
>prey after they kill them. It’s the reason the dead palestinian
>numbers are so low and the missing count is so high.
Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
8 small sage leaves
Serves lots of Pallies.
Deborah
Cider-Braised Jewish Kid
Serves lots of Kikes.
http://aliyaallzionists.wordpress.com/zionist-cannibalistic-recipe-2/
http://aliyaallzionists.wordpress.com/zionist-cannibalistic-recipe-2/
___________________________________________________
Mirelle
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist Grik pig's known useless
illiterate pidgin English garbage unread>
Yassou Pants! Ready to get greeked all over again? Of course you
are, you mongoloid Grik a"h! LOL
<EVBGGVBGVG>
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist Grik pig's known useless
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
You didn't last long last night again, poor psycho! What happened? You've
been bleeding too much again, yesterday? I bet you did! LMAO!
Don't give up to easily, my punching bag! Keep returning to my fists every
day! ROTFLOL!
This is the true meaning of your life! LOL
Groups removed
F'up
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:38:45 +0200, Panta Rhei <kr...@test.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
--
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
You didn't last long last night again, poor psycho! What happened? You've
been bleeding too much again, yesterday? I bet you did! LMAO!
Happy bleeding again, all day long, poor psycho! ;-)
Groups removed
F'up
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip the Grik idiot's pathetic attempted English>
Kalimera, Pants! Obviously, getting greeked all over THE Usenet
yesterday wasn't enough for you - you've come back for more, you
mongoloid Grik a"h! LOL
<VBEVBEVGVG>
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip the Grik idiot's pathetic attempted English>
Kalimera, Pants! Obviously, getting greeked all over THE Usenet
yesterday wasn't enough for you - you've come back for more, you
mongoloid Grik a"h! LOL
<VBEVBEVGVG>
Eli
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
Don't give up, my punching bag! Keep returning to my fists every day!
ROTFLOL! This is the true meaning of your life! LOL
Groups removed
F'up
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:32:50 +0200, Panta Rhei <kr...@test.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>>Rever'nerd,
--
Panta Rhei
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
writes:
<snip this degenerate, psychopathic, racist pig's known useless garbage
unread>
Don't give up, my punching bag! Keep returning to my fists every day!
ROTFLOL!
This is the true meaning of your life! LOL
Groups removed
F'up
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip the Grik idiot's illiterate pidgin English>
Kalespera, Pants! Did you enjoy getting greeked all over THE Usenet
today! Well, there's more tomorrow, and the next day, and the day
after that! LOL
<VBEVBVEVBVG>
Eli
Eli Grubman
wrote:
>Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
>Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
>writes:
<snip the Grik idiot's illiterate pidgin English>
Jewdas
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:13:45 +1000, The_Endeavor
> <The_En...@NoEmailAddress.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
>> 56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
>>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>>
>> Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
>> a young goat.
>
>
> Eli
Dammit Eli... The Key word here is *Murdered*!
>
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
LApert
Oh dear.. Its a couple of days for Suzies ass injection.. And she gets
so hyper and insane while waiting for the blessed Injection.
LApert
> In article <debaed82-991e-463b-806d-
> 56a876...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, gentile...@gmail.com
> says...
>> Nonsense. Pallies haul them away to their top restaurants.
>> Cider-Braised Palestinian Kid
>>
>
> Obviously you are not a native English speaker, a kid in this context is
> a young goat.
The original poster(Jewish) meant that for Palestinian children. Now
buzz off, you pile of shit!
B. H. Cramer
"LApert" <LAp...@freeloader.gov> wrote in message
news:eff77$487d6682$16...@news.teranews.com...
I'm not sure it's happening any more. I think her old man has another woman.
She used to take 3 or 4 days to recover from her arse-rogering, but these
last few weeks she's been back within one day.
Something's wrong.