H seems to have forgotten that he has pasted this faked quotes several
times previously. The version H repastes goes the standard White Power/
neo-Nazi/David Duke/PalArab sites one better, by occasionally
attributing the standard fake quote to the wrong Jew. Not that it
really matters, since they're all wrong. H is, as usual, battin a
thousand.
>"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
>-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford
>University Press, 1985.
“We do not wish and do not need to expel Arabs and take their place.
All our aspiration is built on the assumption—proven throughout all
our activity in the Land - - that there is enough room in the country
for ourselves and the Arabs.”
Ben-Gurion, letter of 5th October 1937
>"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was
>that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have
>stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
>-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox),
>pp. 121-122.
Full quote from Nahum Goldmann, "The Jewish Paradox: A Personal
Memoir of Historic Encounters that Shaped the Drama of Modern Jewry
(1978)", pp. 99-100 [do note the final sentence]:
'One day, or rather night, in 1956 I sat up at [Ben-Gurion's]
house till three in the morning. That night, a beautiful summer
night, we had a forthright discussion on the Arab problem.
'"I don't understand your optimism," Ben-Gurion declared.
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I
would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: they think
we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but
what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come
from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is
that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler,
Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing:
we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they
accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations'
time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple:
we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our
whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out...
'"I'll be seventy years old soon. Well, Nahum, if you asked
me whether I shall die and be buried in a Jewish State I would
tell you Yes; in ten years, fifteen years, I believe there will
still be a Jewish State. But ask me whether my son Amos,
who will be fifty at the end of this year, has a chance of dying
and being buried in a Jewish State, and I would answer:
fifty-fifty."
'"But how can you sleep with that prospect in mind and be
PM of Israel too?" I responded. "Who says I sleep?" was
Ben-Gurion's simple reply.
'That was Ben-Gurion all over: he had told me that so as to
show me how well he knew in his heart that Israel could not exist
without peace with the Arabs, but his stubborn, aggressive
unbending character prevented him from following what his own
intelligence told him. The best proof of that is that having
lost his grip on power his intelligence reasserted itself; he
even became a 'Goldmannite', declaring that all the occupied
territories except Jerusalem should be restored. On this point
I am in agreement with him: Israel must keep Jerusalem.'"
>"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not
>even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you
>because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not
>exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the
>place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in
>the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-
>Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not
>have a former Arab population."
>-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann,
>Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
ROTFLOL!!!! See Goldmann's Memoir, p 99, immediately above. This
"Jewish villages" is attributed to Dayan (or, as H has previously
spelled it, “Dyan”). Either way, it’s wrong.
What Dayan actually said:
"We came to a region that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a
Jewish state. In many places, WE PURCHASED THE LAND from Arabs and set
up Jewish villages where THERE HAD ONCE BEEN ARAB VILLAGES. You don't
even know the names and I don't blame you, because those geography
books aren't around anymore. Not only the books, the villages aren't
around."
The rest of the fake quote -- "Nahalal", "Mahlul", "Jibta", and so on
-- is pure Khalidi. Needless to say, it's not in Goldmann's Memoir.
>"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are
>the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs,
>because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down,
>and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
>-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle,
>which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2
>citing a 1938 speech.
This quote isn't in Chomsky, and it isn't from a 1938 speech either.
"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and
we defend ourselves – that is only half the truth, As
regards our security and life we defend ourselves...
But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict,
which is in its essence a political one. And
POLITICALLY we are the aggressors and they
defend themselves."
-Benny Morris, Righteous Victims, p 652
Expanded quote:
"I want to destroy first all the illusion among our comrades that
Arab terror is a matter of a few gangs, financed from abroad...
We are facing not terror but a war. It is a national war declared
upon us by the Arabs... This is an active resistance by the Arabs
to what they regard as usurpation of their homeland by the
Jews - that's why they fight. Behind the terrorists is a movement,
which though primitive is not devoid of Idealism and self-
sacrifice...
Sheikh Al Qassam was a zealot ready to sacrifice his life for an
ideal. Today we have not one, but hundreds perhaps thousands
[like him]. Behind them is the Arab people. In our political
argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us. But
let us not ignore the truth among ourselves. I insist on the truth,
not out of respect for scientific, but political realities...Let us
not build on the hope the terrorist gangs will get tired. If
some get tired, others will replace them... When we say that
the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves - that
is only half the truth. As regards our security and life we
defend ourselves and our moral and physical position is not
bad. We can face the gangs, and were we allowed to mobilize
all our forces we would have no doubts about the outcome...
But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict which is
in its essence a political one. And politically we are the
aggressors and they defend themselves. Militarily, it
is we who are on the defensive ... but in the political sphere
they are superior...Let us not think that the terror is a result of
Hitler's or Mussolini's propaganda - this helps but the source
of opposition is there among the Arabs."
Ben-Gurion, letter to Sharett, 7th June 1938
>"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by
>transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to
>the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not
>only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the
>people of Israel."
>-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-
>Gurion in a slightly different translation).
In what language might that "slightly different translation" be?
Bullshitese?
Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion pp 855-56:
'In April 1936 he had told Wauchope, "Were there a
possibility of transferring Polish Jewry to America or Argentina we
would have done so, regardless of our Zionist ideology. But the whole
world is closed to us. Had we not room in Palestine, our people would
have no choice but suicide."
'The Evian Conference of 1938 and the Bermuda Conference of
April 1943--the free world's two farcical attempts, at the initiative
of the United States, to find a refuge for the Jews -- proved Ben-
Gurion right. Not one country opened its gates to Hitler's victims.
[...]
Ben-Gurion's total dedication to "historic interest,"
sometimes to the exclusion of the individual, found extreme expression
in December 1938, when he told Mapai's Centra Committee, "Were I to
know that the rescue of all German Jewish children could be achieved
by their transfer to England and of only half their number by transfer
to Palestine, I would opt for the latter, because our concern is not
only the personal interest of these children, but the historic
interest of the Jewish people." Such was his custom, to state or
indeed overstate his position in stark alternatives. But this brutal
formulation may have been the result of his bitterness at the world's
indifference to Jewish misery revealed by the Evian Conference, at
Britain's betrayal of Zionism following the horrors of Kristallnach,
and at the blatant hypocrisy of Britain in claiming that the Jewish
question could be solved in Angda, British Guiana, or elsewhere and
refusing to allow the resue of the ten thousand German Jewish children
by sending them to Palestine. Although he very well knew that his
formulation was purely theoretical, and that there was no hope at all
of rescuing those children, his purpose in using this wording, to
which later events gave a different and unintended meaning, was to
hammer home the axiom that true rescue of the Jewish people was
possible only in Palestine.'
>David Ben Gurion
>Prime Minister of Israel
>1949 - 1954,
>1955 - 1963
>"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we
>came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
>-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.
What Golda actually said:
Frank Giles: "Do you think the emergence of the Palestinian
fighting forces, the Fedayeen, an important new factor in the Middle
East?"
Golda: "Important, no. A new factor, yes. There was no such
thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian
people with a Palestinian State? It was either southern Syria before
the First World War and then it was a Palestine including Jordan.
It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine
considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them
out and took their country away from them. They did not exist."
- Times of London, June 15, 1969
>"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody
>to return them to."
>-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.
Jordan illegally annexed Judah and Samaria in 1950 and turned it into
the "West Bank" of the kingdom of Jordan, formerly the kingdom of
Transjordan, which became the "East Bank". Indeed there was no state,
then, and there is still no state, to give it up to. And the Palestine
Arabs are still in no rush to create a state even now.
>"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must
>also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is
>interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated
>clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
>-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner,
>October 1961
Reported in what?
>"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God
>Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its
>legitimacy."
>-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971
Pretty funny "quote" from an irreligious old socialist like Golda.
>"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
>question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-
>Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
>-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published
>in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
As if anyone was mentioning "the Palestinian population" in 1948 as
pertaining exclusively to Arabs.
Quote from Rabin's Memoirs, pp 383-384:
"While the fighting was still in progress, we had to grapple
with a troublesome problem, for whose solution we could
not draw upon any previous experience: the fate of the civilian
population of Lod and Ramle, numbering some 50,000. Not
even Ben-Gurion could offer any solution, and during the
discussions at operational headquarters, he remained silent, a
s was his habit in all such situations. Clearly, we could not
leave Lod's hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it
could endanger the supply route to Yiftach (another brigade),
which was advancing eastward. We walked outside, Ben-Gurion
accompanying us. Allon repeated his question: "What is to be
done with the population?" B.G. waved his hand in a gesture
which said, "Drive them out!"
"Allon and I held a consultation. I agreed that it was essential
to drive the inhabitants out. We took them on foot toward the
Bet Horon Road, assuming that the legion would be obliged
to look after them, thereby shouldering logistic difficulties which
could burden its fighting capacity, making things easier for us.
"'Driving out' is a term with a harsh ring. Psychologically, this
was one of the most difficult actions we undertook. The population
of Lod did not leave willingly. There was no way of avoiding
the use of force and warning shots in order to make the
inhabitants march the ten to fifteen miles to the point where
they met up with the legion. The inhabitants of Ramle watched
and learned the lesson. Their leaders agreed to evacuate
voluntarily, on condition that the evacuation was carried out
by vehicles. Buses took them to Latrun, and from there they
were evacuated by the legion.
"Great suffering was inflicted upon the men taking part in
the eviction action. Soldiers of the Yiftach Brigade included
youth-movement graduates, who had been inculcated with
values such as international brotherhood and humanness.
The eviction action went beyond the concepts they were used
to. There were some fellow who refused to take part in the
expulsion action."
Definitely H forgot that he pasted this rubbish last March, when it
was most recently rebutted.
>"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
>-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset,
>quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman,
>June 25, 1982.
Begin did not say this. Chumpsky wrote that someone
wrote that Begin said it, as follows:
'He added bitterly, why be surprised? "After all, who are
they [the victims]. Araboushim, two-legged beasts" (the
latter a reference to Prime Minister Menachem Begin's
characterization of "terrorists").'
- Noam Chomsky, Fateful Triangle, p 131
Chomsky appears to cite, in part, Yoram Peri in Davar,
Dec 10, 1982; Peri, however, cites Amnon Kapeliouk in
June 1982. Chomsky conflates the two and deliberately
obfuscates who said what.
Note: Citing the same, some Palliebull sites claim Begin
characterizes terrorists as "beasts walking about on two
legs", as opposed to Chomsky's claim he called them
"two-legged beasts."
>"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be
>recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz
>Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for
>Ever."
>-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.
Politicians say all kinds of things. Begin wasn't in charge in 1947,
and it wasn't as if anyone cared what Begin had to say the day after
the partition vote anyway.
>"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism.
>Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
>-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.
So? Shamir had his opinion of what Zionism was, others had their
opinions.
>"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads
>smashed against the boulders and walls."
>-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to
>Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
Shamir didn't say anything about "Palesitnians". He said the rioters
would be crushed, and that they "are like grasshoppers." PalArabs were
up in arms, shooting people left and right, to commemorate a visit of
the then-Secretary of State.
New York Times
April 1, 1988
P A3
SHAMIR PROMISES TO CRUSH RIOTERS
'They Are Like Grasshoppers", He Says
Tel Aviv March 31 (Reuters)
As Israel prepares to lift a three-day
blockade of the West Bank and Gaza
Strip, Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir
warned today that rioters would be
crushed "like grasshoppers."
[...]
Mr. Shamir, standing atop an ancient
West Bank castle, told reporters:
"Anybody who wants to damage this
fortress will have his head smashed
against the boulders and the walls."
In an exception to the restrictions on
news coverage in the occupied territor-
ies, reporters were taken by bus to the
inauguration of an Israeli tourism site
at the fortress near Bethlehem built by
Herod the Great in the time of Jesus.
In remarks aimed at Arab rioters,
the Prime Minister said: "We say to
them from the heights of this mountain
and from the perspective of thousands
of years of history that they are like
grasshoppers compared to us."
[...]
The Arabs have 22 states, including Jordan, which is Eastern
Palestine. Their whole plan is merely to deny the Jews their country,
as if they haven't enough land to go around. Jews have no other land
of their own elsewhere. Arabs do.
Deborah
Nothing fake about them. But what else can you say? Straight of
the the horsey's mouth is labeled as fake.
> H is, as usual, battin a thousand.
Not hard to do with ZioNazi tribe members.
"Straight of the the horsey's mouth" shows the quotes are fake.
>
> > H is, as usual, battin a thousand.
>
> Not hard to do with ZioNazi tribe members.
Au contraire, debating on fact-based grounds -- or going to the actual
texts to check the references seem to be insurmountably difficult for
your sort.
Deborah
My sort? I'm a trained scientist. Facts oil the science machine.
Those who scream 'fake' to every ugly quote that slips out into the
world
don't have cred, especially quotes from Zionist bigots. Might be a
better
tack to say the speaker was in a bad mood or mad because his dentures
were slipping or something, but to always claim FAKE....tsk tsk.
I'm swearing off Rosen. It's a waste of time.
Translation: Hunter Watson declares he has lost whatever balls he once
had. If he ever had any.
Deborah
I've heard that before.
> Facts oil the science machine.
>
> Those who scream 'fake' to every ugly quote that slips out into the
> world
> don't have cred, especially quotes from Zionist bigots.
I posted the actual quotes, with the sources. Those are facts, and
they are incontrovertible, Mr Wizard.
Deborah
Now that you've been outed for the liar you are you want to take
your toys and go home to mommy eh?
You learn something new everyday. I had no clue trolling was a
science.
It is most certainly not him being afraid of looking foolish. In that
arena he has
more courage than Mr. Worf.
I wouldn't call it courage. Someone who's never afraid isn't
courageous, just foolish, or psychotic. Comparing Worf to H is like
comparing a golden eagle to a dump gull.
Deborah
> > > On Jan 6, 3:21 pm, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Straight of the the horsey's mouth" shows the quotes are fake.
>
> > > > > > H is, as usual, battin a thousand.
>
> > > > > Not hard to do with ZioNazi tribe members.
>
> > > > Au contraire, debating on fact-based grounds -- or going to the actual
> > > > texts to check the references seem to be insurmountably difficult for
> > > > your sort.
>
> > On Jan 6, 2:31 pm, last_permutat...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > My sort? I'm a trained scientist.
>
On Jan 6, 3:46 pm, DoD <danskisan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You learn something new everyday. I had no clue trolling was a
> science.
Is that what it was? I thought it was some clown lying his painted
face off.
Deborah
More like stupidity...
> Comparing Worf to H is like
> comparing a golden eagle to a dump gull.
Speaking of not having any courage.......
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/70/l_fc29cb4a8e314589bf71b8291e44b831.jpg
ROFLMAO!! Wait, I suppose scatology is considered by some a
science....
Isn't that part and parcel of what constitutes trolling on a Jewish
forum?
Clueless is your natural state, Doodoo.
>More like stupidity...
But Doodoo, stupidity is your area of expertise.
> Comparing Worf to H is like
> comparing a golden eagle to a dump gull.
More like a crow in Worf's case.
--
Painting with broad strokes -- it's a mark of that particular ilk of
knuckle-dragging Hebraic cave dweller.
Iconoclast is right... a pure waste of time. No logic resides in that Jew's
skull, it's all emotive hate retoric, flawed religio-centric propaganda, and
asssorted Zio-babble. This is the main source of Suzy the Screamer's
disruptive thinking. All of it is the purest horse pucky available on the
Internet.
NOt necessarily.
That was my reaction when Aviroce just posted that he, too, is a
learned scientist. He gave me pause, though, when he implied that his
vast expertise is the reason he was nicknamed after Averroes.
> Wait, I suppose scatology is considered by some a
> science....
For these, it would have to be cowboy frisbee tossing events.
Deborah
> NOt necessarily.-
Can you elaborate?
A lot of the quotes are fake and it's not difficult to check them out.