South County Dublin Women with Sportscars
kfuzzbox
all these typical south county Dublin women were in there with their
girlfriends. The all look the same. Top designed clothes and jewelry, a
convertible 01 Reg sportscar in the carpark and that snooty "I'm a sex
goddess and you'll never have me" look about them. Now I'll admit that
many of these women were stunning looking but they all look so fake and
full of themselves. Very strange. I could never love with a woman like
that. I like women who are a creative, artistic or intelligent and who
are sincere in themselves and how they treat others. I need more than
just the image. The image is fine but I just couldn't imagine going for
a walk in the park with a woman like that, holding hands and just
talking about "things". I am very romantic and old fashioned that way.
It's seems to me that you have to bring along your goldcard everytime
you say "hello" to these ladies. Not my kind of woman at all. I don't
have 'a type' as such that I go for but I know what I don't go for.
Cat
"kfuzzbox" <kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote in message
news:2001042409...@p146.as1.sligo1.eircom.net...
Snip
You got me thinking there, Unks.
Deep down, Ireland is a strange style-less country. Up until very recently,
people just covered themselves with clothes coz the climate and common
decency required it - truth is, many still do. Style was an unknown
concept - dowdiness was all around. And that was not so long ago - city or
country, there was slight differences, but not a lot. It used to be said
that Irish politicians who ended up in Brussels acquired a couple of extra
stones and a dress sense - I have seen it with the likes of Ray McSharry and
a few others.. so, it isn't that long ago.
The difference now is merely that people have money, and shops stock
expensive designer labels. You buy the right label, an extortionistly
priced Armani suit or a Versace dress, and hey presto, you pass as stylish.
But basically, still no sense of style in sight, merely ostentation and
waving of gold card.
If you want style, go to any back of beyond Italian town on a Sunday
morning. Men and women are immaculately turned out, crisp white shirts,
dark trousers, well teamed pretty outfits, not a designer label in sight.
Jaysus, amn't I getting profound here.. must be Friday morning ...
Cat(h)(worry not about not being attracted to dem wimmin, Unks, you'd clash
with their Prada bags anyhoo)
kfuzzbox
> "kfuzzbox" <kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote in message
> news:2001042409...@p146.as1.sligo1.eircom.net...
>
> Snip
>
> You got me thinking there, Unks.
> Deep down, Ireland is a strange style-less country. Up until very recently,
> people just covered themselves with clothes coz the climate and common
> decency required it - truth is, many still do. Style was an unknown
> concept - dowdiness was all around.
One thing I will say is that the average Irish person either in the
country or the cities (unless they are skangers) do wear tasteful
colours. When I lived in the USA I am always amazed by the day-glow mall
fashions that many people over there wore. When I would come back to
Ireland on holiday it was great like to see all these people wearing
black, brown and earthy colours. Another thing is the quality of Irish
high-street budget fashion is very good and excellent value for money.
It's about the only thing we don't get ripped off with in this country.
Again when I lived in the USA the budget clothes were generally sold
through stores such as Wal-Mart/K*Mart etc and the quality of these
clothes was truly appalling. Not just the styles but the material used
in them and their construction was dreadful. If you look at the Irish
version like say Penney's, the quality and styles of the clothes
especially for men was and is vastly superior. I would have to go to
places like the The Gap and Banana Republic to get the same everyday
casual clothes in the USA and they were quite expensive. The same
clothes in Penney's in Ireland which were of as good a quality and even
cost less than the utter trash which Wal*Mart and K-Mart sold. Alright
we are not the Italians, but we are not the worst either. Also there are
loads of stylish and elegant women in America (I was talking main-stream
in the above rant) as well. I've loved a few of them in my time.
> And that was not so long ago - city or
> country, there was slight differences, but not a lot. It used to be said
> that Irish politicians who ended up in Brussels acquired a couple of extra
> stones and a dress sense - I have seen it with the likes of Ray McSharry and
> a few others.. so, it isn't that long ago.
I am at this stage myself now. Mainly cos' I can get into the nicer
clothes now and the look well on me but I have been whipping out the
credit card with a lot more frequency these days and I am fairly poor.
So it can be a dangerous hobby, but I hardly go out anymore and don't
smoke and hardly drink at all so it's not really a waste of money as
such. I've always tend to used things like expensive shampoos, cologne
and I constantly wash myself as well. When I was younger I used to think
that this might be an indication of some repressed homosexual trait. Any
woman I've gotten to know intimate always commented that I had really
nice smell. The reason why I am like this is because of a deep rooted
psychological need to escape my childhood. No, don't laugh...I always
associated poverty and being poor with filth and nasty smells and I
think this is why as soon as I got out and started making money I began
going to great lengths to make myself as clean as possible and smell
nice. I have aunt who is a psychologist who told me this is why I am
like this and it makes a lot of sense. I don't think I am gay, even at a
very deep level and I am very far from being a control freak, so it
really a self-loathing of my childhood environment that has me going
through life smelling like Joan Collins knickers.
But I agree with what your saying. There is nothing wrong with people
looking good as long as they are not doing it to rub it in other people
faces which it what I saw in South County Dublin yesterday. The whole "I
got it - you don't" mentality.
> The difference now is merely that people have money, and shops stock
> expensive designer labels. You buy the right label, an extortionistly
> priced Armani suit or a Versace dress, and hey presto, you pass as stylish.
> But basically, still no sense of style in sight, merely ostentation and
> waving of gold card.
> If you want style, go to any back of beyond Italian town on a Sunday
> morning. Men and women are immaculately turned out, crisp white shirts,
> dark trousers, well teamed pretty outfits, not a designer label in sight.
You are so right. A few years back we went for a holiday in the Italian
lakes region and one afternoon I was a sitting on some steps somewhere
and watching the local women going past me. All of them looked stunning.
It had nothing to do with the quality of their clothes or how beautiful
they were, but the manner in which they wore them and held themselves.
An Italian woman could just put her hair up a certain way, or hold her
handbag in certain manner and it could look so elegant. There was a real
sense of psychological freedom and security that these women had in
themselves that was very sexual as well.
> Jaysus, ain't I getting profound here.. must be Friday morning ...
> Cat(h)(worry not about not being attracted to deem wimmin, Unks, you'd clash
> with their Prada bags anyhow)
I did find them attractive, a couple of them were very beautiful and
there was no denying that, but I look for a lot more from a woman than
them looking good. I know that all the best women are more than what
they look like. I am not entirely shallow I'll have you know.
Excuse me I am off for a good cry now...
Cat
> One thing I will say is that the average Irish person either in the
> country or the cities (unless they are skangers) do wear tasteful
> colours.
No, they wear SAFE colours which allow them melt into the background.
When I lived in the USA I am always amazed by the day-glow mall> fashions
that many people over there wore.
I've been lucky to be spared any such toxic contacts with yankeeland thus
far (although that is about to change in June... but for entirely scientific
purposes)... I do however recall seeing the odd day-glow shiny tracksuit in
some parts of Dublin some years back...
When I would come back to
> Ireland on holiday it was great like to see all these people wearing
> black, brown and earthy colours. Another thing is the quality of Irish
> high-street budget fashion is very good and excellent value for money.
I beg to differ. Most of what you get there looks sort of good - but just
wash it once, and it's ready to polish yer floor.
Just you ask Sage about Dunnes Stores Yfronts !
> It's about the only thing we don't get ripped off with in this country.
> Again when I lived in the USA the budget clothes were generally sold
> through stores such as Wal-Mart/K*Mart etc and the quality of these
> clothes was truly appalling. Not just the styles but the material used
> in them and their construction was dreadful. If you look at the Irish
> version like say Penney's, the quality and styles of the clothes
> especially for men was and is vastly superior.
Then, I pity the poor yanks and their melt-in-first-wash clothes... It does
not come much shittier than Penneys !
snip nice smelling obsessive rant
> You are so right. A few years back we went for a holiday in the Italian
> lakes region and one afternoon I was a sitting on some steps somewhere
> and watching the local women going past me. All of them looked stunning.
> It had nothing to do with the quality of their clothes or how beautiful
> they were, but the manner in which they wore them and held themselves.
> An Italian woman could just put her hair up a certain way, or hold her
> handbag in certain manner and it could look so elegant. There was a real
> sense of psychological freedom and security that these women had in
> themselves that was very sexual as well.
Whatever about being very sexual, you said very well what I said rather less
so.
> Excuse me I am off for a good cry now...
(passing tissue)
Cat(h)
Pilar Quezzaire
: Cat <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
:> Deep down, Ireland is a strange style-less country. Up until very recently,
: One thing I will say is that the average Irish person either in the
: country or the cities (unless they are skangers) do wear tasteful
: colours. When I lived in the USA I am always amazed by the day-glow mall
: fashions that many people over there wore. When I would come back to
: Ireland on holiday it was great like to see all these people wearing
: black, brown and earthy colours.
Is that because of style, or depression? Seriously,
Most of the Irish people I knew, men in particular, wore dark clothes as a
matter of course, and the fit of the clothes tended to be on the less
stylish side. A young man I knew had this beautiful green sweater he wore
whenever he wanted to impress me, and it would have been a truly beautiful
sweater were it not too tight, and worn with his hair slicked back in a
most unartful manner. He never slouched in his clothes, and honestly, it
would have been far more stylish if he had. SAme has been true of many
Irish people I met. The quality of the clothes I'd not deny, but the fit
of the clothes betrayed a lack of fashion sense, at least to bourgeois
American eyes.
: Another thing is the quality of Irish
: high-street budget fashion is very good and excellent value for money.
Then why do I know so many Irish who come to the US and head straight for
the Gap and the Levis store? I've heard countless stories from both
genders that the clothes here in general were cheaper.
: Again when I lived in the USA the budget clothes were generally sold
: through stores such as Wal-Mart/K*Mart etc and the quality of these
: clothes was truly appalling. Not just the styles but the material used
: in them and their construction was dreadful. If you look at the Irish
: version like say Penney's, the quality and styles of the clothes
: especially for men was and is vastly superior.
That's beginning to change here, especially in stores like Target and
Filene's Basement. Quality clothes are bvecoming a touch more available.
Still, no deny on my end that budget clothes in Wal-Mart are sewn like
Halloween costumes and look like crap.
: I would have to go to
: places like the The Gap and Banana Republic to get the same everyday
: casual clothes in the USA and they were quite expensive. The same
: clothes in Penney's in Ireland which were of as good a quality and even
: cost less than the utter trash which Wal*Mart and K-Mart sold. Alright
: we are not the Italians, but we are not the worst either.
You're amongst the worst in how clothes fit. Everything's too tight,
often too short, and turtlenecks seem to be a national obsession. Yeargh.
: But I agree with what your saying. There is nothing wrong with people
: looking good as long as they are not doing it to rub it in other people
: faces which it what I saw in South County Dublin yesterday. The whole "I
: got it - you don't" mentality.
Isn't that pretty much what fine clothes are for? There's a VERY fine line
between looking good for oneself or for others. Maybe I've taken a few too
many worlkd costume courses, but the original purpose of wearing elaborate
clothes was to show off one's wealth. You just said that you associate
slovenliness and dirt with poverty -- you're not unique in this regard by
any means. By extension, the suggestion of good clothes/wealth is a pretty
obvious thing there.
I personally dress like a slob most of the time -- it's become an
"Academic quirk". I never smell though. Sloppy is okay for me -- dirty is
another thing altogether. I'd be allergic to myself if I didn't wash
frequently, because most forms of dirt and mold I am allergic to.
:> If you want style, go to any back of beyond Italian town on a Sunday
:> morning. Men and women are immaculately turned out, crisp white shirts,
:> dark trousers, well teamed pretty outfits, not a designer label in sight.
: An Italian woman could just put her hair up a certain way, or hold her
: handbag in certain manner and it could look so elegant. There was a real
: sense of psychological freedom and security that these women had in
: themselves that was very sexual as well.
I was in Rome recently, and was struck by the ease woth which Italians
moved in their clothes. I think in the cities there is an obsession with
fashion (France is worse) but in general, the "look" seems to come with a
practical sense of what works, and an acceptance of the body types
existent in the culture. West African women, especially Senegalese one,
have the same sort of sense. I've personally never seen better-dressed
people, especially across so many socio-economic levels.
In Ireland, everything looks too tight. In America, too contrived. Neither
culture seems terribly accepting of existent body types, which doesn't
help.
I remember having an argument with two close acquaintances over
hairstyles. One was an American from rural Maryland, the other a geek from
Wicklow. Both of them seemed obsessed with helmeting their hair down with
gel, something I personally detested -- it's bad for the hair anyways.
When I suggested to the Irish gentleman that he get a shelf haircut to let
his eyes show and to preclude the need for him to slick his hair like a
Bronx drug-dealer, he scoffed at me, saying he "wasn't gonna look like a
British faggot." My Maryland friend simply wouldn't hear of not gelling
her hair, fearing that the wind might mess up her do.
I understandably gave up at that point.
--
Just Pilar
The Sage
"Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:N7dG6.12056$_W2....@news.indigo.ie...
> > Ireland on holiday it was great like to see all these people wearing
> > black, brown and earthy colours. Another thing is the quality of Irish
> > high-street budget fashion is very good and excellent value for money.
>
> I beg to differ. Most of what you get there looks sort of good - but just
> wash it once, and it's ready to polish yer floor.
> Just you ask Sage about Dunnes Stores Yfronts !
You took the words off my keyboard.
DS Y-fronts remind me of the scene from "Royle Family" on telly. The father
was sitting in the armchair, and was shifting around uncomfortably. The wife
asks him what was wrong. " I bought these pair of knickers for a quid, and I
reckon there's 50p of them stuck up me hole" !
That about sums up Dunnes Y-fronts, and they all come in awful colours. The
rest of their stuff ain't too bad. I know that when French students come
here for the summer they are amazed at how good the choice, quality and
value is here in places like Dunnes. They don't have that type of store in
Paris ( maybe M&S-which is much more expensive).
Cat
"The Sage" <k.pr...@iegateway.net> wrote in message
news:wWdG6.12069$_W2....@news.indigo.ie...
> You took the words off my keyboard.
Sorry 'bout dat.
> DS Y-fronts remind me of the scene from "Royle Family" on telly. The
father
> was sitting in the armchair, and was shifting around uncomfortably. The
wife
> asks him what was wrong. " I bought these pair of knickers for a quid, and
I
> reckon there's 50p of them stuck up me hole" !
> That about sums up Dunnes Y-fronts, and they all come in awful colours.
The
> rest of their stuff ain't too bad.
Dunnes stuff does LOOK somewhat better in the last few years, but it does
not WEAR. Two wears, and it's out of shape and can be thrown out. That's
not my idea of good value.
Where Dunnes really scores, imho, is in homewares. They have wooden kitchen
thingies that are to die for !
I know that when French students come
> here for the summer they are amazed at how good the choice, quality and
> value is here in places like Dunnes. They don't have that type of store in
> Paris ( maybe M&S-which is much more expensive).
That's true, there is no equivalent in France. M&S used to have curiosity
value in Paris where as far as I know they had one of their few (if not the
only one) shops in France. I seem to recall they had to exit the French
market, though I would not swear to it.
A few years ago, just before xmas each year, Icelandic tourists used to
descend upon the Dunnes shops all over Dublin. Some clever travel agent had
cottonned on to the fact that clothes were outrageously expensive in
Iceland, and persuaded willing shoppers to take charter flights to christmas
shop here. I distinctly remember signs in Icelandic in the Stephen's Green
shopping centre !
Cat(h)
Bren Vaughan
> That's true, there is no equivalent in France. M&S used to have curiosity
> value in Paris where as far as I know they had one of their few (if not the
> only one) shops in France. I seem to recall they had to exit the French
> market, though I would not swear to it.
M&S recently announced closure of its Paris store (and most other stores
in Europe) and has since found itself in the middle of a storm. On the one
hand you have the French Government threathening to take them to court over
not complying with French laws on giving notice to employees and on the
other hand you have had demonstrations outside the store in Paris objecting
at it's closing down.
bren
Cat
"Bren Vaughan" <bvau...@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:9cbqpi$lsm$1...@niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk...
> M&S recently announced closure of its Paris store (and most other stores
> in Europe) and has since found itself in the middle of a storm. On the one
> hand you have the French Government threathening to take them to court
over
> not complying with French laws on giving notice to employees and on the
> other hand you have had demonstrations outside the store in Paris
objecting
> at it's closing down.
>
> bren
>
Us frogs are very fond of, and entitled to, our contradictions.
Cat(h)
westprog++
"Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
..
>I do however recall seeing the odd day-glow shiny tracksuit in
>some parts of Dublin some years back...
It went out of fashion when "he wore a shiny tracksuit" became synonymous
with "he was a petty criminal".
J/
SOTW: "Rebel Rebel" - Bowie
"The greatest of all the many crimes English statesmen have committed
against Ireland was committed by Lloyd George on December 5-6 1921,
when, under the threat of immediate and terrible war, he compelled
the signatures of our delegates to an impossible 'treaty'."
Bren Vaughan
> Us frogs are very fond of, and entitled to, our contradictions.
> Cat(h)
I think it may be the Brit ex-pats complaining. I mean if M&S closes
down, where the hell are they going to get overpriced fashionable
clothing in Paris?
bren
kfuzzbox
> Is that because of style, or depression? Seriously,
Neither. I just think we like dark stuff.
>
> : Another thing is the quality of Irish high-street budget fashion is very
> : good and excellent value for money.
>
> Then why do I know so many Irish who come to the US and head straight for
> the Gap and the Levis store? I've heard countless stories from both
> genders that the clothes here in general were cheaper.
That stuff is cheaper in the USA because of price controls in the EU
which makes them more expensive over here. These Irish girls are after
these labels because the Irish are an extremely unsophisitaced and
gullible people who are totally under the control of mass media
particularly from the UK and the USA.
I was mainly talking about men's clothes anyway. I have trousers from
the GAP and the similar ones ones from Penney's are are just as good in
terms of quality and they cost a lot less. I am not rich and I have to
hit the high-street shops. I am not ashamed to say that I go to places
like M&S, Penney's and the like. I think I still look better than a fat
turd like Gerry Ryan in an Armani black suit with his guts being held up
by his kneecaps.
> That's beginning to change here, especially in stores like Target and
> Filene's Basement.
June used to shop al the time at Filene's Basement they had only really
come to New York around the time we moved and yes, they were all over
the USA during my last visit there and the clothes she got there were
really nice and not expensive at all. Since moving to Ireland she buys
mostly Dorothy Perkins stuff which is very high-street, but nice but not
cheap either. I think that men in general get much better deals on
clothes in Ireland.
Quality clothes are becoming a touch more available. > Still, no deny
on my end that budget clothes in Wal-Mart are sewn like > Halloween
costumes and look like crap.
I was amazed how bad there were. The worst rubbish in Ireland like
Dunnes Stores clothes were like DKNY in in comparision to that garbage.
> You're amongst the worst in how clothes fit. Everything's too tight, often
> too short, and turtlenecks seem to be a national obsession. Yeargh.
I agree there alright. I don't have a problem with turtlenecks on women
with long necks. The problem is that not many Irish woman have them.
They tend to be either bony or chubby. Also, a lot of Irish women are
very unfemine in appearence and look like they did their clothes
shopping at Fossets Circus. A lot of them have that Pat Butcher short
hair butch look. Ask Tommy Murphy, he once had a pair of tits like that
pushed in his face at a traffic light in Drogheda. I was half asleep in
the backseat before I realised what was happening so nobody cn blame me
for that breast extraction/drug crazed ritual.
> Isn't that pretty much what fine clothes are for? There's a VERY fine line
> between looking good for oneself or for others. Maybe I've taken a few too
> many world costume courses, but the original purpose of wearing elaborate
> clothes was to show off one's wealth. You just said that you associate
> slovenliness and dirt with poverty -- you're not unique in this regard by
> any means. By extension, the suggestion of good clothes/wealth is a pretty
> obvious thing there.
When I was younger I spent a fortune on clothes. I have no regrets. When
I got fat all I could wear was shit and I felt terrible. I made the
effort alright, but I never looked anything other than stupid.
kfuzzbox
> Then, I pity the poor yanks and their melt-in-first-wash clothes... It does
> not come much shittier than Penneys !
When you got the USA go have a look inside K-Mart and Wal-Mart and
you'll never knock Penney's ever again.
Tommy Murphy
> I was in The Bakers Corner in Kill O' The Grange in Dublin yesterday and
> all these typical south county Dublin women were in there with their
> girlfriends. The all look the same. Top designed clothes and jewelry, a
> convertible 01 Reg sportscar in the carpark and that snooty "I'm a sex
> goddess and you'll never have me" look about them. Now I'll admit that
> many of these women were stunning looking but they all look so fake and
> full of themselves.
Fake orgasms and real jewellery - I know the type...
Cheers
Tommy Murphy
______________________________________________
| Phil wrote in message <83m7vu$20...@drn.newsguy.com>
| And this guy, he IS funny
Pilar Quezzaire
: "The Sage" <k.pr...@iegateway.net> wrote in message
: I know that when French students come
:> here for the summer they are amazed at how good the choice, quality and
:> value is here in places like Dunnes. They don't have that type of store in
:> Paris ( maybe M&S-which is much more expensive).
: That's true, there is no equivalent in France. M&S used to have curiosity
: value in Paris where as far as I know they had one of their few (if not the
: only one) shops in France. I seem to recall they had to exit the French
: market, though I would not swear to it.
This isn't exactly right. Monoprix's prices are pretty reasonable, and the
clothes tend to be better. I've found some amaizingly cheap, decent stuff
in Monoprix in Paris and Aix-en-Provence.
Best bet in France is to shop low-income neighborhoods, like Pigalle in
Paris. Great clothes, and cheap.
--
Just Pilar
Pilar Quezzaire
Yes, but almost no one shops there, save for fishing clothes. If you were
shopping there, isn't that a commentary on you?
--
Just Pilar
kfuzzbox
> Pilar Quezzaire <quez...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> > Is that because of style, or depression? Seriously,
That's a rather strange statement and very typically American in nature.
This whole thing that the Irish are an especially depressed race! What
makes you Yanks think such things? You see a movie like The Field and
you assume it a portrayal of mainstream Irish society... Well, I can
watch a film entitled Deep Throat and I know from the title it's not
about a giraffe. I know the difference between movies and and reality.
The Irish are no more depressed than the Yanks it's just that we don't
hide it behind a 'have a nice day' mentality like you lot do. Mainly
because we don't need to generate an industry of self-help gurus we pay
us to tell what we should already know.
Cat
"Pilar Quezzaire" <quez...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:9cc36h$rlp$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
>
> This isn't exactly right. Monoprix's prices are pretty reasonable, and the
> clothes tend to be better. I've found some amaizingly cheap, decent stuff
> in Monoprix in Paris and Aix-en-Provence.
>
> Best bet in France is to shop low-income neighborhoods, like Pigalle in
> Paris. Great clothes, and cheap.
>
>
No doubt you've come across Tati in your travels.. now there's a parisian
institution.. and no-one can sell shite quite as well as they do ! But
then, they don't pretend either !
Monoprix stuff is not particularly wonderful - it is very equivalent to
Dunnes, minus the range and choice.
There are lots of shops selling very high quality clothes, last year's
lines, ends of stocks, etc etc in Paris. You need to know where they are -
what they sell is not dirt cheap, but it is seriously good value.
Cat(h)
> --
> Just Pilar
Pilar Quezzaire
:> Is that because of style, or depression? Seriously,
: Neither. I just think we like dark stuff.
I don't think it's an accident Ireland is the leading authority on
light-deprivation depression treatment meself....
:> Then why do I know so many Irish who come to the US and head straight for
:> the Gap and the Levis store? I've heard countless stories from both
:> genders that the clothes here in general were cheaper.
: That stuff is cheaper in the USA because of price controls in the EU
: which makes them more expensive over here. These Irish girls are after
: these labels because the Irish are an extremely unsophisitaced and
: gullible people who are totally under the control of mass media
: particularly from the UK and the USA.
You and everyone else in the world. Plus, your jeans and trousers suck. My
ex thought Dockers were God's work, even though he was an atheist. This
says much about Irish fashion....
: I was mainly talking about men's clothes anyway.
So was I.
: I have trousers from
: the GAP and the similar ones ones from Penney's are are just as good in
: terms of quality and they cost a lot less. I am not rich and I have to
: hit the high-street shops. I am not ashamed to say that I go to places
: like M&S, Penney's and the like. I think I still look better than a fat
: turd like Gerry Ryan in an Armani black suit with his guts being held up
: by his kneecaps.
Armani is for skinny people, admittedly. Still, it's better than Dockers.
: June used to shop al the time at Filene's Basement they had only really
: come to New York around the time we moved and yes, they were all over
: the USA during my last visit there and the clothes she got there were
: really nice and not expensive at all. Since moving to Ireland she buys
: mostly Dorothy Perkins stuff which is very high-street, but nice but not
: cheap either. I think that men in general get much better deals on
: clothes in Ireland.
They do here, too. Women get better deals on shoes, however. Sucks for me,
because I wear men's shoes. Double slam in the arse for me.
:> You're amongst the worst in how clothes fit. Everything's too tight, often
:> too short, and turtlenecks seem to be a national obsession. Yeargh.
: I agree there alright. I don't have a problem with turtlenecks on women
: with long necks. The problem is that not many Irish woman have them.
No no, Unki, I'm not lettin' you off that easy. I meant Irish MEN
primarily. Turtlenecks and small leather jackets that don't fit quite
right. Yeesh! I remember seeing a lot of women in Ireland with somewhat
dumpy skirts and turtlenecks, which didn't go too well either.
: They tend to be either bony or chubby. Also, a lot of Irish women are
: very unfemine in appearence and look like they did their clothes
: shopping at Fossets Circus. A lot of them have that Pat Butcher short
: hair butch look. Ask Tommy Murphy, he once had a pair of tits like that
: pushed in his face at a traffic light in Drogheda. I was half asleep in
: the backseat before I realised what was happening so nobody cn blame me
: for that breast extraction/drug crazed ritual.
I never complain about chubby or bony. This is pretty much the spectrum in
my mostly-Black neighborhood back home. As for tits in the face...well, I
don't really have much to say to that. Just say no to drugs and tits,
methinks.
: When I was younger I spent a fortune on clothes. I have no regrets. When
: I got fat all I could wear was shit and I felt terrible. I made the
: effort alright, but I never looked anything other than stupid.
Some of the best-dressed and most attractive people I've seen are large. I
personally prefer larger people. I've never had a mind for men or women I
could break like twigs. I might also add that larger people who make a
minimal effort to dress well in this country find themselves wearing
specially-tailored things, or buying from specialty stores, which of
course affects the quality of their clothes.
I find nothin' finer than a big man in good clothes.
--
Just Pilar
Tom Walsh
>
> Unki, if you want to see a big man well dressed, check James
> Gandolfini's wardrobe in The Sopranos.
Sleeping with the fishes suddenly takes on a while new meaning.
Thalassa
"kfuzzbox" wrote:
>> One thing I will say is that the average Irish person either in the country
or the cities (unless they are skangers) do wear tasteful colours.
>
>No, they wear SAFE colours which allow them melt into the background.
>
>When I lived in the USA I am always amazed by the day-glow mall fashions
that many people over there wore.
>
>I've been lucky to be spared any such toxic contacts with yankeeland thus far
(although that is about to change in June... but for entirely scientific
purposes)... I do however recall seeing the odd day-glow shiny tracksuit in
some parts of Dublin some years back...
>
<*snip*>
Um.. I don't know where in America you lived, but I've been in NYC [and before
that Boston/ Cambridge] for years and have never seen people dress as you
describe, though I do know they certainly are out there. But all of
'yankeeland' is not like that! I get the vast majority of my clothing from
thrift-shops and street fairs [except for things such as the Danskins which I
wear constantly] the latter of which are ubiquitous in the spring/ summer
months in Manhattan. [Though there is a great one coming up the weekend of 6th
May in Hoboken.] There you will find a lot of great hand-crafted stuff from
local designers, both clothing and jewellery. And I have a beautiful Peruvian
cardigan I bought from a street vendor for $60, and it has worn like iron for
years, as well as some lovely hand-dyed garments made from Egyptian cotton I
purchased at a fair that is held weekly at a schoolyard in Manhattan [Columbus
Ave in the 70's, right near the Museum of Natural History] as well as some
wonderful earrings I have purchased from African jewellers up in Harlem. And I
*don't* have a lot of money to spend on clothes, nor would I want to -
everything I have is pretty much bon marché, and my life is a Prada-free zone.
I won't even look at the Prada knock-offs sold on street corners. I don't read
fashion magazines; I don't even own a television. I care far more about what is
interesting to me than in what is chic or trendy; always have been. I'm a
serious runner, hiker and cyclist, but I do not own any track suits or the
like. As you know, style is innate, an attitude - clothing is only one of the
ways how one expresses that attitude. I love beautiful things, and I enjoy
dressing well, even dressing up, but by my own definition,and not by what is on
a rack or in a catalogue somewhere. [I haven't been in a mall in over 20
years.] Though I do own, and frequently wear, a pair of red Charles Taylor high
tops, which I adore. Does that make me a slave to fashion? So be it! :-)))
Thalassa
..............
I tell you, my lord fool, out of this nettle, danger,
we pluck this flower, safety.
Cat
"Thalassa" <lilac...@aol.comavaunt> wrote in message
news:20010427124412...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> "Cat" wrote:
> "kfuzzbox" wrote:
>
> >> One thing I will say is that the average Irish person either in the
country
> or the cities (unless they are skangers) do wear tasteful colours.
> >
> >No, they wear SAFE colours which allow them melt into the background.
> >
> >When I lived in the USA I am always amazed by the day-glow mall fashions
> that many people over there wore.
> >
> >I've been lucky to be spared any such toxic contacts with yankeeland thus
far
> (although that is about to change in June... but for entirely scientific
> purposes)... I do however recall seeing the odd day-glow shiny tracksuit
in
> some parts of Dublin some years back...
> >
> <*snip*>
>
> Um.. I don't know where in America you lived,
snip fashion rant
Nowhere - as I said, I never have, and with a bit of luck never will. I am
sure there are Dublins in the US - the one I was referring to is the one
I work in, Dublin Ireland.
Unks was commenting on amurrican fashion- I honestly would not have a clue,
and frankly would not give a gnat's crap.
Cat(h)
Pilar Quezzaire
:> Pilar Quezzaire <quez...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
:>
:> > Is that because of style, or depression? Seriously,
: That's a rather strange statement and very typically American in nature.
: This whole thing that the Irish are an especially depressed race! What
: makes you Yanks think such things? You see a movie like The Field and
: you assume it a portrayal of mainstream Irish society...
(rest of rant snipped)
Now see, you can answer the same post sanely, and then you remember you
need to post sans your medication. Jays Unki, be consistent with your
drugs, willya?
--
Just Pilar
Pilar Quezzaire
: snip fashion rant
: Nowhere - as I said, I never have, and with a bit of luck never will. I am
: sure there are Dublins in the US - the one I was referring to is the one
: I work in, Dublin Ireland.
: Unks was commenting on amurrican fashion- I honestly would not have a clue,
: and frankly would not give a gnat's crap.
And this is why you and Unki are such a pair. It's easy to sit an ocean
away and bitch about stuff you know nothing of. Thanks for the context
though.
--
Just Pilar
Pilar Quezzaire
: Um.. I don't know where in America you lived, but I've been in NYC [and before
: that Boston/ Cambridge] for years and have never seen people dress as you
: describe, though I do know they certainly are out there.
You show your colors all too well, if you excuse my pun. Most of what the
folks are talking about is the boonies and the Midwest, where Kmart rules
and polyester is not considered a shameful fabric to wear.
I don't know too many people in Boston (where I live now) who would get
caught dead in that stuff. Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
--
Just Pilar
Cat
Pilar Quezzaire <quez...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:9ccmv0$16s$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
It always helps to read posts before replying, I find. I have not bitched
about amurrica and the local fashion, Unki has. Ms Thalassa obviously had
not read me either, and was mistakenly attributing comments and sentiments
to me, so I just legitimately sought to put her right.
But you're quite right, ever since I've discovered the Great Unks's
Alabaster Derriere, my life has taken a new meaning...
Cat(h) (glad you enjoyed the context, whatever that is when it's at home)
Mrs Hudges
> Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
>
Must be a South Sider then, or else you've been away from Chicago for a long
long long time
The Sage
"Tommy Murphy" <tommy_...@hotmail.com.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:3ae98dc4$1...@ni-news.utvinternet.com...> > I was in The Bakers Corner in Kill O' The Grange in Dublin > Fake
orgasms and real jewellery - I know the type...
All fur coats and no knickers....
Sage
kfuzzbox
> And this is why you and Unki are such a pair. It's easy to sit an ocean
> away and bitch about stuff you know nothing of. Thanks for the context
> though.
Hold on a second fuckwit, I lived in the USA for 11 years. I am married
to an American women. I went to the USA and started working on a H-1
student visa in an "Irish" bar, I played in an alternative band and
worked for several investment banks on Wall Street. I've study Graphic
Design at the School of Visual Arts in New York. I have lived in the
Lower East Side of Manhattan, The Bronx, Queens, Long Island and
Weehawken, New Jersey. I have travel extensively throughout the USA. I
know the country very, very well and the people as well. My contacts and
relationships with Americans has been through all social and ethnic
strata and I think I have a fairly good understanding of that society. I
have sex numerous times with American women and I like a lot of things
about the USA. To claim that I am am some ignorant Eurotrash peering
across the Atlantic is the most moronic statement you have made on this
newsgroup yet. I know what I am talking about. I know the USA and
Americans as well as I know Ireland and the Irish. My opinions are valid
and real and based on first-hand exposer to that society from many
different aspects and viewpoints. My opinions about the USA and
Americans like all my other opinions about things and people I encounter
in this life are based on what I have seen, felt and how I honestly view
them and are not a expression of bigoted ignorance or arrogance. I am a
honest and straight-forward person and this usually causes me nothing
but misery in my life. But I can't change that about me. For the most
part, I like the USA and I like American people. I think they are on the
whole, a warm-hearted and sincere nation of people who are kind and
hospitable. But like my own country and society, just like anywhere else
I see things I don't like and I point them out. I can't pretend people
and places are not what I perceive them to be and I never will. I am
neither stupid, nor blind and I wasn't born yesterday. So fuck you
asswipe.
Secondly, Cat is a French woman living in Ireland whom I never met, we
don't know each other. Her mind is independent and free-thinking as is
mine and we don't work as a team. So you can go kiss my big ass.
The Sage
> Pilar Quezzaire <quez...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> > And this is why you and Unki are such a pair.
Secondly, Cat is a French woman living in Ireland whom I never met, we
> don't know each other. Her mind is independent and free-thinking as is
> mine and we don't work as a team. So you can go kiss my big ass.
>
> --
> kfuz...@tinet.ie
Mind you, she is worth meeting.
Sage
kfuzzbox
> "kfuzzbox" <kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote in message
> Secondly, Cat is a French woman living in Ireland whom I never met, we
> > don't know each other. Her mind is independent and free-thinking as is
> > mine and we don't work as a team. So you can go kiss my big ass.
> Mind you, she is worth meeting.
I am sure she is a nice person but alas I am a shut-in these days.
Terry McT
<kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote:
Too many women after your svelte new form when you leave the house
these days?
Terry
kfuzzbox
I get a a few more offers these days alright, but I have lost interest
in all that stuff. I have become a vampire in the eyes of some people.
Terry McT
<kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote:
Not in the eyes of the local constabulary, I trust.
Terry
Thalassa
Thalassa wrote::
>: Um.. I don't know where in America you lived, but I've been in NYC [and
before
that Boston/ Cambridge] for years and have never seen people dress as you
describe, though I do know they certainly are out there.
>
>You show your colors all too well, if you excuse my pun. Most of what the
folks are talking about is the boonies and the Midwest, where Kmart rules and
polyester is not considered a shameful fabric to wear.
>
>I don't know too many people in Boston (where I live now) who would get caught
dead in that stuff. Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
Well, then you must keep to an extremely exclusive set in Boston, Pilar. :-)
And thank you for the insight - I never would have been able to figure out what
they were discussing in the thread without it. FYI: one need not possess the
Rosetta stone to parse SCI. My brother lives in Ann Arbor - which may not count
as the Midwest to some people, strictly speaking - but to him it is the
Midwest, where the people are friendlier, he believes; he would rather die than
return to Cambridge, where he did his time in college, as an undergraduate,
anyway. He has also lived in Chicago, where he met his [now - ex] wife, who was
definitely from the boonies, both emotionally and culturally: Holland, MI, on
the left hand side of the Michigan mitten, but decidedly on the right hand side
culturally. I visited her family one Christmas, and it was definitely the most
conservative place I've ever been in, but the people, at least the ones in her
family, polyester-wearers all, were incredibly nice, and not, I believe, just
because I am his sister. They also made the best mashed potatoes I have ever
had for the Christmas dinner. [There was a church on nearly every well-tended
block there, some called the 'Christian Church,' others the 'Reformed Christian
Church,' others still the 'Christian Reformed Christian Church,' and the
'Reformed Christian Church in Christ'... I am *not* joking, however odd it
sounds.] Indeed they made a point of keeping in touch with him after the
marriage ended - because they are good people, not because they wanted to
reunite the marriage.. Nice town, Holland is, though decidedly
melanin-challenged. My closest friend - born in New Orleans, grew up in
Mississippi and Memphis - lotsa polyester in her background, too, but she's
been through detox. So, yup, I know there's a big country out there, Pilar, and
they have their own ways of doing things, and their own funny accents, just as
I have mine. But thanks for keeping me informed.
BTW - any opinion on/ involvement in what's going on for the workers Harvard's
paying $6.25/ hour?
Pilar Quezzaire
:>From: Pilar Quezzaire
:> Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
:>
: Must be a South Sider then, or else you've been away from Chicago for a long
: long long time
I'm near South Side, so you're right. All the folks on the white side of
Comiskey Park wore clothes of that sort. West Side around Cicero was and
is notorious for it, moreso than anywhere on the South Side. Now, I assume
you are commenting on the economic status of the North Side, which has
more Gaps and Banana Republics per square foot than most of the Midwest.
Water Tower Mall Rats, and all.
I think Chicago has changed quite a bit since I grew up there, of course.
I also am frequently surprised at Chicago's particular brand of
provinciality that still exists. It is a Midwestern town, no matter how
much Wrigleyville claims it's gone cosmopolitan.
--
Just Pilar
Pilar Quezzaire
: BTW - any opinion on/ involvement in what's going on for the workers
: Harvard's paying $6.25/ hour?
Clerical workers got a raise and more benfits. The janitorial workers have
been hosting sit-ins and rallies, as they certainly deserve better pay.
It's shameful that an institution with as much money as this one pays
their workers so little. They're too busy spending it on useless and
expensive research grants. Not to knock the useful research grants, but
c'mon, a living wage shouldn't be that hard.
Neil Rudenstine (current pres of Harvard) sent a general letter out to
students, claiming that the janitorial workers and the administration had
been working on a deal when the sit-in was called. Yah, sure, is what I
say.
--
Just Pilar
gregory....@ntlworld.com
Thalassa wrote:
>
> "Cat" wrote:
> "kfuzzbox" wrote:
>
> >> One thing I will say is that the average Irish person either in the country
> or the cities (unless they are skangers) do wear tasteful colours.
> >
> >No, they wear SAFE colours which allow them melt into the background.
> >
> >When I lived in the USA I am always amazed by the day-glow mall fashions
> that many people over there wore.
> >
> >I've been lucky to be spared any such toxic contacts with yankeeland thus far
> (although that is about to change in June... but for entirely scientific
> purposes)... I do however recall seeing the odd day-glow shiny tracksuit in
> some parts of Dublin some years back...
> >
> <*snip*>
>
> Um.. I don't know where in America you lived, but I've been in NYC [and before
> that Boston/ Cambridge] for years and have never seen people dress as you
> describe, though I do know they certainly are out there. But all of
> 'yankeeland' is not like that! I get the vast majority of my clothing from
> thrift-shops and street fairs [except for things such as the Danskins which I
> wear constantly] the latter of which are ubiquitous in the spring/ summer
> months in Manhattan.
Sounds like a bowl of flowers, what are Danskins exactly? Pray excuse my
compulsive dumbness.
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory
Tony Cooper
> Sounds like a bowl of flowers, what are Danskins
exactly? Pray excuse my
> compulsive dumbness.
Body tights. Danskins (sound it out: dance
skins) is a brand name and a company that makes
several different products in this area. As a
generic term, she's just referring to tights.
Probably, the black ones that cover waist to toe
that women wear under shorts, skirts, etc.
One of the most disgusting sights on American
streets is an overweight woman in full Danskins
and not wearing anything over them. They look
like an overpacked sausage with lumpy bits.
I'm not being critical of a woman that's
overweight. I'm being critical of a woman that's
overweight and wearing a sausage skin that makes
her look worse.
--
Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
Provider of Jots & Tittles
Thalassa
Greig wondered:
>
>> Sounds like a bowl of flowers, what are Danskins exactly? Pray excuse my
compulsive dumbness.
>
>Body tights. Danskins (sound it out: dance skins) is a brand name and a
company that makes several different products in this area. As a generic term,
that women wear under shorts, skirts, etc.
>
>One of the most disgusting sights on American streets is an overweight woman
in full Danskins and not wearing anything over them. They look like an
overpacked sausage with lumpy bits.
>
>I'm not being critical of a woman that's
overweight. I'm being critical of a woman that's overweight and wearing a
sausage skin that makes her look worse.
>
>
kind. [I never wear full body suits.] As I wear skirts often, I usually wear
those. They are a bit more pricey - but not really so because they don't need
to be replaced so often - because they wear like iron and are *very*
comfortable. When I work out - run, especially, or do yoga, I just wear a pair
of cotton shorts and an oversized t-shirt.
Why do I fear that I am turning into the SCI fashion correspondent? :-)
gregory....@ntlworld.com
Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> Greig wondered:
>
> > Sounds like a bowl of flowers, what are Danskins
> exactly? Pray excuse my
> > compulsive dumbness.
>
> Body tights. Danskins (sound it out: dance
> skins) is a brand name and a company that makes
> several different products in this area. As a
> generic term, she's just referring to tights.
> Probably, the black ones that cover waist to toe
> that women wear under shorts, skirts, etc.
>
> One of the most disgusting sights on American
> streets is an overweight woman in full Danskins
> and not wearing anything over them. They look
> like an overpacked sausage with lumpy bits.
I'm with you. The thing Europeans really hate about the USA in
otherwards.
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory
Pilar Quezzaire
Tony Cooper wrote:
:> One of the most disgusting sights on American
:> streets is an overweight woman in full Danskins
:> and not wearing anything over them. They look
:> like an overpacked sausage with lumpy bits.
I honestly don't think women of any build look attractive in Danskins.
tight clothes of that sort just don't seem to work right -- fine for
working out, but why look uncomfortable when you don't have to?
: I'm with you. The thing Europeans really hate about the USA in
: otherwards.
I've seen some pretty awful outfits on both sides of the pond. Dowdy
English and Irish clothes, overdone French makeup, large Italian hairdos.
Grease in every culture, at least for hair. I guess I just don't like
looks that are terribly contrived. Simple, casual, well-tailored clothes
are a godsend, and so rare to come by.
--
Just Pilar
Cat
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9cep1d$fpn$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Greig wondered:
>
> > Sounds like a bowl of flowers, what are Danskins
> exactly? Pray excuse my
> > compulsive dumbness.
>
> Body tights. Danskins (sound it out: dance
> skins) is a brand name and a company that makes
> several different products in this area. As a
> generic term, she's just referring to tights.
> Probably, the black ones that cover waist to toe
> that women wear under shorts, skirts, etc.
>
> One of the most disgusting sights on American
> streets is an overweight woman in full Danskins
> and not wearing anything over them. They look
> like an overpacked sausage with lumpy bits.
>
You could say they probably look equally awful on bony-arsed creatures...
For that matter, if I visualise them correctly, they are what we call here
leggings, which should only be used for the gym, or other types of sports,
but most certainly not for being seen dead in, regardless of shape.
> I'm not being critical of a woman that's
> overweight. I'm being critical of a woman that's
> overweight and wearing a sausage skin that makes
> her look worse.
Lack of style affects all shapes and sizes - some people know how to make
the best of themselves, others don't. A very heavy female friend of mine is
one of the most stylish people I know. She is always immaculately turned
out, and always looks just right for every occasion, and is very attractive.
Of course, that's not a million miles away from what you are saying.
Cat(h)
Tony Cooper
> For that matter, if I visualise them correctly,
they are what we call here
> leggings, which should only be used for the gym,
or other types of sports,
> but most certainly not for being seen dead in,
regardless of shape.
They can be appropriate. Thalassa is saying she
wears them under skirts so the effect is just like
black panty hose. I also see women wearing them
under baggy shorts. Saves the time of shaving
their legs, I guess.
At the health club where I exercise nine out of
ten women wear them when working out. Some with
shorts over, and some with the skimpy exercise
outfits over. Covers the cottage cheese look.
The offensive ones wear them for grocery shopping
and such. I can't imagine what they are thinking.
Just as bad, as far as I'm concerned, are the
tennis outfits with dangly gold jewelry and
expensive jewelry as a regular daytime outfit.
Even when the woman is fit, it looks out of place
in the grocery.
Cat
--
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9cfo6h$de$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Cat wrote:
>
> > For that matter, if I visualise them correctly,
> they are what we call here
> > leggings, which should only be used for the gym,
> or other types of sports,
> > but most certainly not for being seen dead in,
> regardless of shape.
>
> They can be appropriate. Thalassa is saying she
> wears them under skirts so the effect is just like
> black panty hose. I also see women wearing them
> under baggy shorts. Saves the time of shaving
> their legs, I guess.
>
Well, I'll go for shaving legs and wearing decent sheer tights under skirts
any day - opaque tights almost always look school girlish or clumpy. I
simply can't imagine leggings under skirt - the sheer horror of it... maybe
your Danskins are something different from what I imagine.
> At the health club where I exercise nine out of
> ten women wear them when working out. Some with
> shorts over, and some with the skimpy exercise
> outfits over. Covers the cottage cheese look.
Gack ! You are a vile creature, Tony Cooper ! You omit to mention that
they are also comfortable and warm, and stretch with your body as you
exercise.. which is the very reason most of us milkmaids wear them... I
assume your own perfectly toned bod, with prominent six-pack abs and sticky
outy quads is clad in fetching dark spandex with day-glow go fast stripes ?
;-)
>
> The offensive ones wear them for grocery shopping
> and such. I can't imagine what they are thinking.
>
> Just as bad, as far as I'm concerned, are the
> tennis outfits with dangly gold jewelry and
> expensive jewelry as a regular daytime outfit.
> Even when the woman is fit, it looks out of place
> in the grocery.
>
>
This is what is known as the Christmas Tree look - if you ask me, it is out
of place everywhere. Less is more, as they say...
Imagine exchanging style tips with the SCI Resident Provider of Jots and
Tittles ? What better things could one do of a sunny Sunday morning ?
By the way, what do you do when you get a ladder in your tights, just before
an important meeting ?
Cat(h) (would be out there running in her best "danskins", except she
injured her &%@%^ foot, and is home bound ! GGGRrrrrrrrrr)
Pilar Quezzaire
: On 27 Apr 2001 15:25:05 GMT, Pilar Quezzaire
: <quez...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
:>Yes, but almost no one shops there, save for fishing clothes. If you were
:>shopping there, isn't that a commentary on you?
: Maybe that is the only place you can afford to shop. !
Possibly, though I believe Unki was living in NY. There are a THOUSAND
other options in NYC in particular. Cheap clothes of reasonable quality
are available in most parts of the US, and have been since I can remember.
A lot of the time, if you're a K-Mart person, it's by choice, or a lack of
concern over the clothes you wear.
--
Just Pilar
Tony Cooper
I
> simply can't imagine leggings under skirt - the
sheer horror of it... maybe
> your Danskins are something different from what
I imagine.
They don't look that bad. They're like tights,
lycra body suits....I dunno. I'm not that good at
describing female fashions. They don't appear to
be any different than wearing panty hose.
>
.. I
> assume your own perfectly toned bod, with
prominent six-pack abs and sticky
> outy quads is clad in fetching dark spandex with
day-glow go fast stripes ?
I considered putting in a disclaimer saying that
men can look equally unattractive, but decided to
see how far this would get before this is pointed
out to me.
> Imagine exchanging style tips with the SCI
Resident Provider of Jots and
> Tittles ? What better things could one do of a
sunny Sunday morning ?
> By the way, what do you do when you get a ladder
in your tights, just before
> an important meeting ?
If I'm wearing a suit, I'll be wearing
over-the-calf dark socks. I can't stand the look
of men who wear short socks with a suit and have
this glaring white patch of ankle showing. OTC
socks do not ladder, but the equivelent problem is
discovering you are wearing one navy blue and one
black sock. A frequent gaffe.
mickeymickiewicz
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Cat wrote:
>
> I
>> simply can't imagine leggings under skirt - the
>sheer horror of it... maybe
>> your Danskins are something different from what
>I imagine.
>
>They don't look that bad. They're like tights,
>lycra body suits....I dunno. I'm not that good at
>describing female fashions. They don't appear to
>be any different than wearing panty hose.
There was a bit of a fashion for women to wear them under ripped jeans in
the
early 90s. Of course, it may have just been the circles I traveled in.
It was the height of artistry, a knowing hint without vulgarity.
Much like buying Naomi Wolf's books just to have them when women
came over; if it didn't work out, at least you had the author's pic.
mm
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, Pilar's motto is:
>You show your colors all too well, if you excuse my pun. Most of what the
>folks are talking about is the boonies and the Midwest, where Kmart rules
>and polyester is not considered a shameful fabric to wear.
Polyester: machine washable, doesn't wrinkle easily, inexpensive.
>I don't know too many people in Boston (where I live now) who would get
>caught dead in that stuff. Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
Move beyond the confines of the Peoples Republic of Cambridge you'll see people
who get their clothes at K-Mart and Target.
K.
--
The Dude abides.
Pilar Quezzaire
: Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like? Their walls are built on
: cannonballs, Pilar's motto is:
:>You show your colors all too well, if you excuse my pun. Most of what the
:>folks are talking about is the boonies and the Midwest, where Kmart rules
:>and polyester is not considered a shameful fabric to wear.
: Polyester: machine washable, doesn't wrinkle easily, inexpensive.
Uncomfortable, locks in heat, and is better replaced by many types of
synethetic fabric available today. What's the rayon strech non-wrinkle
stuff that so many dresses are being made out of today? It's wonderful,
comes in great colors, is easily to pack, and never wrinkles. It's also
being made into nice clothes. I have a few dresses and suits made of it.
:>I don't know too many people in Boston (where I live now) who would get
:>caught dead in that stuff. Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
: Move beyond the confines of the Peoples Republic of Cambridge you'll see people
: who get their clothes at K-Mart and Target.
One, I don't live in Cambridge.
Two, Targets that I've seen have some pretty decent clothes. I in fact
posted on this very fact. So if you read some of the previous thread, your
comment might have been amended somewhat.
: K.
: --
: The Dude abides.
: http://www.celticweb.com/users/noracharles
--
Just Pilar
The Sage
> China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
offered this sage advice:
> : Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like? Their walls are built
on
> : cannonballs, Pilar's motto is:
>
> stuff that so many dresses are being made out of today? It's wonderful,
> comes in great colors, is easily to pack, and never wrinkles. It's also
> being made into nice clothes. I have a few dresses and suits made of it.
Polynosaic.
Sage
Cat
> .. I
> > assume your own perfectly toned bod, with
> prominent six-pack abs and sticky
> > outy quads is clad in fetching dark spandex with
> day-glow go fast stripes ?
>
> I considered putting in a disclaimer saying that
> men can look equally unattractive,
Ah, go on, humour me !! Say it, go on, say it: "some men can look EVEN
WORSE", now, that wasn't so difficult, was it ??
Cottage cheese effect indeed !
How about the gravity-defying beer gut effect, you know, those guys who have
to walk leaning backwards to compensate ?
Ha !
Cat(h)
westprog++
"Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
..
>How about the gravity-defying beer gut effect, you know, those guys who
have
>to walk leaning backwards to compensate ?
Stop picking on me.
J/
SOTW: "Pump It Up" - Elvis Costello
"The right of private property is accepted as fundamental,
and as far as Catholics are concerned there has been
definite teaching upon it"
Cat
"westprog++" <westp...@news.boards.ie> wrote in message
news:3aed6770$1...@news.boards.ie...
>
> "Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
> ..
> >How about the gravity-defying beer gut effect, you know, those guys who
> have
> >to walk leaning backwards to compensate ?
>
> Stop picking on me.
>
> J/
Ah, jaysus, Westie, don't be so sensitive ! You may be erm, aahhhhh....
rotund, but you have the height to carry it... And you don't have to lean
*that* far backwards either.
Cat(h) (I didn't know you wore danskins/leotards.. be sure to show them off
at the next drinkipoos !)
Fr. Des
looks quite svelte but that might be the effects of the reading material
he carries or the tweed. Me, I am ehhhh, cuddly and probably do not
have any height to carry it. You still coming to Cork?
Fr. Des
--
[Posted at boards.ie]
http://www.boards.ie/
Ireland's Bulletin Boards, News Groups, Chat Rooms
After Hours - Games - Technology - Work - For Sale
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, Pilar's motto is:
>:>I don't know too many people in Boston (where I live now) who would get
>:>caught dead in that stuff. Chicago (where I was born)? Definitely.
>
>: Move beyond the confines of the Peoples Republic of Cambridge you'll see
>people
>: who get their clothes at K-Mart and Target.
>
>One, I don't live in Cambridge.
>
>Two, Targets that I've seen have some pretty decent clothes. I in fact
>posted on this very fact. So if you read some of the previous thread, your
>comment might have been amended somewhat.
K-Mart also has some decent clothes, I was looking at some sundresses there at
South Bay yesterday, as were quite alot of other people, mostly families. To
contrast, I don't see too many families shopping at Macys or Filenes at the
mall.
westprog++
"Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
>"westprog++" <westp...@news.boards.ie> wrote in message
>news:3aed6770$1...@news.boards.ie...
>> "Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >How about the gravity-defying beer gut effect, you know, those guys who
>> have to walk leaning backwards to compensate ?
>> Stop picking on me.
>Ah, jaysus, Westie, don't be so sensitive ! You may be erm, aahhhhh....
>rotund, but you have the height to carry it...
Thank you for pausing for a neutral-sounding adjective.
>And you don't have to lean *that* far backwards either.
That wasn't leaning, that was swaying.
>Cat(h) (I didn't know you wore danskins/leotards.. be sure to show them
off
>at the next drinkipoos !)
Stretchy is good.
Cat
"Fr. Des" <fath...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3aed7a2f$1...@news.boards.ie...
> >
>
> What weight is Westprog; approximately, in round figures?
Well, I paced all the way around him, took the square of the distance from
his left to his right shoulder, multiplied that by the length of his nose,
added the number of badges on his lapels (one) and stuck my finger up to see
which way the wind was blowing. This time honoured method allowed me to
calculate that Westie is 16 stones for 6foot 1. I am sure he will confirm
my scientific calculation presently.
I think he
> looks quite svelte but that might be the effects of the reading material
> he carries or the tweed. Me, I am ehhhh, cuddly and probably do not
> have any height to carry it. You still coming to Cork?
Me, me height and me weight will be there late Friday night for the w/e.
Cat(h)
Fr. Des
Sunday (if the knots are really good). What is this about an exhibition
.. where, when and how much?
kfuzzbox
wrote:
> I don't see too many families shopping at Macys or Filenes at the
> mall.
We were so poor that the only place me mammy could afford to shop for
clothes for us was at Army/Navy stores. I tell you one thing, it was no
fun going to school dances dressed like a Japanese general. The Gang of
Four had a song in the charts at the time entitled "I Love a Man in a
Uniform". I was a wallflower and needed all the encouragement I could
get and I believed that the Gang of Four were sending me a secret
message to let me know I'd get girls. So anyway at this school disco, I
asked this girl up to dance and she said. "Hey, aren't you General
Kuyomama?" Thinking I had her impressed her, I replied "Yeah baby, what
if I am?" She headbutted me and said. "That's for the invasion of
Singapore."
Thank god masturbation cost nothing.
Cat
>
> I am tied up on Saturday (bondage session with neighbours) and possibly
> Sunday (if the knots are really good). What is this about an exhibition
> .. where, when and how much?
>
> Des
>
Well, erm... I had never thought of myself as an exhibitionist, really...
Cat(h)
Pilar Quezzaire
: K-Mart also has some decent clothes, I was looking at some sundresses there at
: South Bay yesterday, as were quite alot of other people, mostly families. To
: contrast, I don't see too many families shopping at Macys or Filenes at the
: mall.
Maybe SOuth Bay has better clothes than Assembly Square, but K-Mart is not
as good as TArget, without too much price difference.
I see lots of families at Filene's Basement, and lots of old ladies at
Filene's and Macy's. If I want expensive clothes (which I rarely do) I
wouldn't go to the stores you mentioned. I prefer smaller boutiques.
: K.
: --
: The Dude abides.
: http://www.celticweb.com/users/noracharles
--
Just Pilar
westprog++
"Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Fr. Des" <fath...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3aed7a2f$1...@news.boards.ie...
>> What weight is Westprog; approximately, in round figures?
>Well, I paced all the way around him, took the square of the distance from
>his left to his right shoulder, multiplied that by the length of his nose,
>added the number of badges on his lapels (one) and stuck my finger up
And my eyes are still watering. Is that really a traditional French
greeting?
>to see
>which way the wind was blowing. This time honoured method allowed me to
>calculate that Westie is 16 stones for 6foot 1. I am sure he will confirm
>my scientific calculation presently.
That badge weighed 3 stone. I am seriously underweight for someone 8 inches
taller than me.
>I think he
>> looks quite svelte but that might be the effects of the reading material
>> he carries or the tweed. Me, I am ehhhh, cuddly and probably do not
>> have any height to carry it.
I can recommend low stools for future SCI-Cons. Lean forward over the
table and it hides a lot. I look forward to a report of Cat(h)'s
special technique for analysing your height, weight, and diet.
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, Pilar's motto is:
>
>this sage advice:
>
>: K-Mart also has some decent clothes, I was looking at some sundresses there at
>: South Bay yesterday, as were quite alot of other people, mostly families. To
>: contrast, I don't see too many families shopping at Macys or Filenes at the
>: mall.
>
>Maybe SOuth Bay has better clothes than Assembly Square, but K-Mart is not
>as good as TArget, without too much price difference.
>
>I see lots of families at Filene's Basement, and lots of old ladies at
>Filene's and Macy's. If I want expensive clothes (which I rarely do) I
>wouldn't go to the stores you mentioned. I prefer smaller boutiques.
Filenes *is* expensive clothes, to me at least. I only shop there when they
have good sales on. I can't afford to shop at smaller boutiques.
Pilar Quezzaire
: cannonballs, Pilar's motto is:
:>I see lots of families at Filene's Basement, and lots of old ladies at
:>Filene's and Macy's. If I want expensive clothes (which I rarely do) I
:>wouldn't go to the stores you mentioned. I prefer smaller boutiques.
: Filenes *is* expensive clothes, to me at least. I only shop there when they
: have good sales on. I can't afford to shop at smaller boutiques.
Filenes and other department stores of its ilk offer boring clothes at
ridiculous prices. I wouldn't shop there even if I had the money, that's
what I'm saying.
As for smaller boutiques:
Sure, there are exclusive little boutiques on Newbury Street, most of
which I've not shopped at. But more often, I prefer neighborhood clothing
stores, which have better quality clothes within reasonable price ranges.
When I need something really special, I'll wander into those, particularly
stores that sell African or Indian clothing.
When folks hear the word boutique, there's an image that comes to mind of
thousand-dollar dresses made for models and superstars. Most boutiques
aren't like that, certainly not the ones I go to. If I need a t-shirt,
I'll go to Target, maybe Lane Bryant. If I need a good dress, I'll go to
an Indian or African boutique, or once in a while, a seamstress. If I want
a trendy hat, MAYBE I'll visit Newbury Street. It's not like I'm in
clothing stores every day buying expensive things.
The short of it is, even for people with low budgets, there are ways to
get better clothes.
--
Just Pilar
Paul Carr
"Cat" <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:v6aG6.12008$_W2....@news.indigo.ie...
>
> "kfuzzbox" <kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote in message
> news:2001042409...@p146.as1.sligo1.eircom.net...
>
> Snip
>
> You got me thinking there, Unks.
> Deep down, Ireland is a strange style-less country.
Deep down, France is a strange style-less country.
Up until very recently,
> people just covered themselves with clothes coz the climate and common
> decency required it - truth is, many still do. Style was an unknown
> concept - dowdiness was all around. And that was not so long ago - city
or
> country, there was slight differences, but not a lot. It used to be said
> that Irish politicians who ended up in Brussels acquired a couple of extra
> stones and a dress sense - I have seen it with the likes of Ray McSharry
and
> a few others.. so, it isn't that long ago.
> The difference now is merely that people have money, and shops stock
> expensive designer labels. You buy the right label, an extortionistly
> priced Armani suit or a Versace dress, and hey presto, you pass as
stylish.
> But basically, still no sense of style in sight, merely ostentation and
> waving of gold card.
> If you want style, go to any back of beyond Italian town on a Sunday
> morning. Men and women are immaculately turned out, crisp white shirts,
> dark trousers, well teamed pretty outfits, not a designer label in sight.
> Jaysus, amn't I getting profound here.. must be Friday morning ...
> Cat(h)(worry not about not being attracted to dem wimmin, Unks, you'd
clash
> with their Prada bags anyhoo)
Well, that's your opinion. Next..
Paul Carr
--
"They can not because they do not do it well and cause hell in the chain of
command" - Hippo
Tony Cooper
> Ah, go on, humour me !! Say it, go on, say it:
"some men can look EVEN
> WORSE", now, that wasn't so difficult, was it ??
> Cottage cheese effect indeed !
> How about the gravity-defying beer gut effect,
you know, those guys who have
> to walk leaning backwards to compensate ?
Like any man, I am perfectly willing to saying
anything to please a woman ... as long as I don't
have to mean it. There is a difference between a
man that doesn't look good and a woman that
doesn't look good.
Men can be terribly out-of-shape and have those
bellies that hang over the belt and be proud of
them. Comment on that hairy little wedge of
blubbery flab peeking out with one eye under the
stretched tee shirt, and a man will grin proudly,
vigorously smack the jellyroll, and tell you how
many beers or keilbasa sausages it took to develop
it. He'll even wink and tell you that he married
a good cook. You won't offend him by referring to
his gut.
You can't - even in jest - refer to a woman's
weight without her reacting like she'd had a
recruiting message on her answering machine
directly from Jenny Craig. A woman will stand
there with great hanging folds dangling from her
upper arms, an arse like a beanbag chair, and
thighs like boat bumpers and refer to her "tummy".
She'll tell you she lost two and half pounds last
week when all she has to do to claim that is
remove her sweat pads.
Men are honest. "I'm putting on a gut." they'll
say. Women always rationalize about weight. "I'm
retaining fluids." they'll chirp. Retaining
fluids? What'd they do? Drink a drum of diet
Pepsi? Men admit to weight gain. Women tell you
these stretch fabrics have better colours. Fat
men shop at the "Big and Tall" shop. Fat women
shop at the Full Figured shop or the Plus Sizes
shop. No "big" in those names.
To be honest, though, men have an advantage over
women when it comes to weight. A man can get
sloppy fat and still have better legs than a
woman. In a man, the weight is trapped around the
epicenter of the navel. With a woman, the weight
slides down the thighs toward the ankles puckering
the skin as it passes along. Men's styles don't
change that much. We put on an inch or two in
circumference and we just slip down and buy a new
pair of brown slacks in a new waist size. They
look just like the old ones except we can get the
zipper all the way to the top. A woman has to buy
a whole new wardrobe.
Fat men look successful. Fat women look
replaceable.
Pilar Quezzaire
: Fat men look successful. Fat women look
: replaceable.
Don't you think, Tony, that's largely men's fault?
I'm a big woman and proud of it. My husband loves every inch. It is
because of this that I dont' care, save my own defiance against men
telling me how I should look. I'm not replaceable, and if any man says
something like that, it tells me just how many cobwebs are floatingi n his
pathetic little brain.
--
Just Pilar
Tony Cooper
> : Fat men look successful. Fat women look
> : replaceable.
>
> Don't you think, Tony, that's largely men's
fault?
I don't know that you can blame it on the men.
The men have come to believe it to be true, but a
great deal of why they believe that is the woman's
incessant harping on it.
The women's magazines invariably have some story
in them about a new, miracle diet. Diets and
weight are a constant topic of discussion by
women. Fashions are set by women, and the
fashions are for the tall and slim. It's women
that buy the diet products and frequent the Weight
Watchers and Jenny Craig's.
Don't argue that it's because the women want to
please men. Take a look at "Vogue" or "Elle" and
tell me that anything in there is there to please
men.
It is because of this that I dont' care, save my
own defiance against men
> telling me how I should look.
Hon, it's women that are telling you how to look.
It's women that set the styles, decided the
hairstyles, mandate the height of the heels of
your shoes, pick the colours, and choose the
accessories. No matter how silly or uncomfortable
any of them are.
If you want men to tell you how to look, go to the
next party with your tits hanging out and wear
flat shoes. But, you won't. You'll get all
dressed up and come home satisfied if several of
the women complimented your outfit and asked if
you'd lost a few pounds.
I'm not replaceable, and if any man says
> something like that, it tells me just how many
cobwebs are floatingi n his
> pathetic little brain.
You want to argue with me, or argue with what our
society actually practices? Tell me what a
"trophy wife" actually looks like. Be honest.
Now, tell me what a "trophy husband" looks like.
Short, fat, bald, and looks like he's got a
hedgehog stuck in each ear. And a great big bulge
in the pocket where he carries his wallet.
Don't shoot the messenger, darlin'. I'm not
setting the standards....just commenting on what
has been set.
Pilar Quezzaire
:> Don't you think, Tony, that's largely men's
: fault?
: I don't know that you can blame it on the men.
: The men have come to believe it to be true, but a
: great deal of why they believe that is the woman's
: incessant harping on it.
That's a funny sort of cyclical thing. Now, I don't harp on it
incessantly, so there may be other factors for those that do. I'll take a
stab at it.
How many times have you sat around with your friends, talking about how
women look? I'm not suggesting by any means that women do not do the same,
but the focus on physical attraction, in general, is greater in
establishing relationships for men than it is women. That is why you
rarely see women with trophy husbands, or, I might add, less of a concern
about looks amongst men, for they know they have more criteria that most
women are looking for. Not so much with men, particularly young ones.
So what happens? Women harp incessantly about their weight, which in our
society is accepted as paramount to good looks. How many men do you know
are told by their wives to lose weight or hit the road?
I'd also add with women, a lot of issues of control center around their
bodies. If you are fat as a women, or are "out of control". Anorexia, seen
almost entirely in women (something like three percent of cases are male)
is a control issue. Choosing to eat or not to eat is a way for women to
feel they have control over other issues. That combined with societal
pressure to be thin is literally lethal. This part of the equestion is not
men's fault per se, but I wonder aloud here if men spent less time on
looks, would heterosexual women feel their bodies were battlegrounds for
control? Probably not as much.
: The women's magazines invariably have some story
: in them about a new, miracle diet. Diets and
: weight are a constant topic of discussion by
: women. Fashions are set by women, and the
: fashions are for the tall and slim. It's women
: that buy the diet products and frequent the Weight
: Watchers and Jenny Craig's.
Do you know who controls the fashion industry, Tony? Men -- gay men in
particular. Despite the fact that fashion is a women's realm, men still
control the majority of magazines and fashion houses that create the
trends. I've bitched incessantly about women who continue to allow this
kind of nonsense, but I bet a lot of them feel they can't keep their jobs
if they don't. I wouldn't be surprised if some women in the industry
bought into that bullshit -- see my control issues comments above.
I have symapthy that from your observance, it seems that women are
perpetuating some oif the attiudes about weight and looks in this country.
They are, at least on a general level. At the top, men are largely calling
the shots, and in the general population, men are accepting that women
should be judged on physical looks. Look what you said about cottage
cheese, yet you defended potbellies. You accept these kinds of statements
as facts, when in truth, they are judgements.
: Don't argue that it's because the women want to
: please men. Take a look at "Vogue" or "Elle" and
: tell me that anything in there is there to please
: men.
First off, I didn't argue that. Second, I personally know a lot of men who
buy Elle to look at the models. Maybe not you, but don't be so naive as to
think you are a representative sample.
I'd counter that those same skinny models are what makes you buy the
Sports Illustrated SWimsuit Issue. Now, if these women are not what men
want, why are the mags coming off the racks?
: Hon, it's women that are telling you how to look.
Oh that is really wrong in my case. Women tell me I look great.
: It's women that set the styles, decided the
: hairstyles, mandate the height of the heels of
: your shoes, pick the colours, and choose the
: accessories. No matter how silly or uncomfortable
: any of them are.
Tony, this is pure ignorance of the fashion industry, so I'll leave this
alone.
: If you want men to tell you how to look, go to the
: next party with your tits hanging out and wear
: flat shoes. But, you won't. You'll get all
: dressed up and come home satisfied if several of
: the women complimented your outfit and asked if
: you'd lost a few pounds.
What kind of women do you hang out with? That's awfully shallow.
We'll say your party example is hypothetical. Since I dont' in general
think tits hanging out is a bad idea, depending on how they hang, I'd
presume I'd dress for the occasion. If someone says I look nice, I say
thank you, and recognize that women are far more likely to compliment than
men, at least in public. Men at the same party would wait until I was
alone, then ask for my number, or make some comment about my tits hanging
out with an appreciative whistle, or whatever way men decide to tell me
that I am worthy of receiving their penises for the evening.
I'd go home with the man who thought my last article was fascinating, and
enjoyed speaking with me. Fortunately, my husband is ready-made to do
that.
: You want to argue with me, or argue with what our
: society actually practices? Tell me what a
: "trophy wife" actually looks like. Be honest.
Depends on the preferences of the man who buys her.
: Now, tell me what a "trophy husband" looks like.
: Short, fat, bald, and looks like he's got a
: hedgehog stuck in each ear. And a great big bulge
: in the pocket where he carries his wallet.
I havent' disagreed. I think it's disgusting, I don't understand why
anyone of either sex would allow themselves to be made objects. You are
supporting my contention, BTW, that men are dictating how women should
look. Society is generally very shallow. The fact that these done-up,
cut-up women are getting money pretty much tells you what men are saying.
If men didnt' care, women wouldn't harp about their weight, worry about
their clothes, or get plastic surgery to look like Barbie dolls.
: Don't shoot the messenger, darlin'. I'm not
: setting the standards....just commenting on what
: has been set.
I certainly hope you don't agree with it. I also think your argument is a
bit double-sided. You outright say that men focus on physical looks, then
blame women for noticing.
: --
: Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
: Provider of Jots & Tittles
--
Just Pilar
Cat
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9cl3jt$ba0$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
> Like any man, I am perfectly willing to saying
> anything to please a woman ... as long as I don't
> have to mean it. There is a difference between a
> man that doesn't look good and a woman that
> doesn't look good.
snip
Not really, there is merely a set of standards within western societies
(made up of men AND women, incidentally) which determines what
characteristics are inherently attractive or unattractive. In our western
societies, very fat = very unattractive.
Frankly, I don't think any man or woman in western societies would find that
a very obese slobby man looks good, no more than the sort of woman you so
vividly describe. Some other human societies prize fatness, because they
have adopted different codes and standards for themselves.
.
snip
> Fat men look successful.
Or totally revolting - although "cuddly" is nice.
Cat(h)
The Sage
"Cat" <cath...@NORUBBISHPLEASEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5hGH6.13172$_W2....@news.indigo.ie...
>
>
> > Fat men look successful.
>
> Or totally revolting - although "cuddly" is nice.
>
> Cat(h)
Please define cuddly.
Sage
>
>
>
>
Cat
The Sage <k.pr...@iegateway.net> wrote in message
news:eoGH6.29946$PF4....@news.iol.ie...
A few synonyms:
Pleasantly Plump
Good Snuggle Factor
Can't Feel Bones, But No Wobble
Can you see it now ?
Cat(h)
Tony Cooper
> How many times have you sat around with your friends, talking about
how
> women look?
Uncountable times. I notice women, I like to look at women. Just
today, I positioned myself in a sandwich shop just to be able to
unobtrusively glam a knock-out of babe eating across the room.
I'm not suggesting by any means that women do not do the same,
> but the focus on physical attraction, in general, is greater in
> establishing relationships for men than it is women.
I wasn't looking for a relationship at lunch today. I was simply
hoping that she'd drop her napkin and have to bend over and pick it
up. I'm a believer in "it doesn't make a difference where you get
your appetite as long as you eat at home. I'm a confirmed lech as far
as woman watching. I have no idea what women look for in men.
Certainly, not anything I have to offer since I've hardly been
bothered by women placing themselves in restaurants so they can look
me over.
How many men do you know
> are told by their wives to lose weight or hit the road?
Never known one. Never known a husband to tell his wife that, either.
I've been married for 36 years. My wife was 5' 1/2" and 105 lbs. when
I married her. She's still 5' 1/2". She's been on a thousand diets,
joined several aerobics classes and health clubs, gone to Weight
Watchers at times, and fixed a million calorie concious
meals....never, though, because I suggested a need.
> This part of the equestion is not
> men's fault per se, but I wonder aloud here if men spent less time
on
> looks, would heterosexual women feel their bodies were battlegrounds
for
> control? Probably not as much.
It is absolutely against all rules of human behavior for a man not be
concious of a woman's looks. The standard of looks may vary from
culture to culture, but the conciousness remains.
> Do you know who controls the fashion industry, Tony? Men -- gay men
in
> particular. Despite the fact that fashion is a women's realm, men
still
> control the majority of magazines and fashion houses that create the
> trends.
I disagree. I considered that gay men make up a major percentage of
designers, but I don't count them as "men" in this context. I mean no
insult at all to them in this comment. I simply feel they are not
designing from a male perspective. They don't see women as a sexual
identity. They are designing as a woman would see a woman.
> At the top, men are largely calling the shots, and in the general
population, men are accepting that women
> should be judged on physical looks.
Again, I disagree. Your implication is that the better a woman looks,
the better she is judged in the workplace. I agree that women - and
men - are hired, noticed and promoted based a good part on looks.
There is a point, though, that a woman is considered dangerous if too
good looking. Attractive, yes. Well groomed, yes. Knockout, drop
dead beautiful, no.
>Look what you said about cottage
> cheese, yet you defended potbellies. You accept these kinds of
statements
> as facts, when in truth, they are judgements.
Certainly. As I said, I'm offering commentary on what really goes on.
I'm dealing with facts. They may be unfair judgements also, but the
fact is that the world works this way.
> : Don't argue that it's because the women want to
> : please men. Take a look at "Vogue" or "Elle" and
> : tell me that anything in there is there to please
> : men.
>
> First off, I didn't argue that.
You would've. I cut you off at the pass.
Second, I personally know a lot of men who
> buy Elle to look at the models. Maybe not you, but don't be so naive
as to
> think you are a representative sample.
C'mon. My wife subscribes to "Vanity Fair". (Great mag; I love the
articles). The models are freaks dressed as freaks. VF is an inch
thick with ads, and there might be one layout with a really attractive
woman. And then, she's dressed in a tinfoil tutu with makeup by
Sherwin Williams.
> I'd counter that those same skinny models are what makes you buy the
> Sports Illustrated SWimsuit Issue. Now, if these women are not what
men
> want, why are the mags coming off the racks?
I have the Swimsuit issue since I am an annual subscriber to Sports
Illustrated. This last one was a bust. (sic) Buncha dogs. Skinny
dogs, but dogs. The editors have gone "arty" and have forgotten what
made the issue special in the past.
> : Hon, it's women that are telling you how to look.
>
> Oh that is really wrong in my case. Women tell me I look great.
Wha? Your reply proves my point.
>
> : It's women that set the styles, decided the
> : hairstyles, mandate the height of the heels of
> : your shoes, pick the colours, and choose the
> : accessories. No matter how silly or uncomfortable
> : any of them are.
>
> Tony, this is pure ignorance of the fashion industry, so I'll leave
this
> alone.
As above, the designers may be men but they are designing from a
female perspective. They don't have a panel of lumberjacks advising
them on hemlines and bodice cuts. Their verification as designers is
the acceptance by women of their designs. Women set the styles, women
critique the shows, and women provide the fashion reviews. The staff
at WWD couldn't jump over to Mechanic's Illustrated and get a job.
> : If you want men to tell you how to look, go to the
> : next party with your tits hanging out and wear
> : flat shoes. But, you won't. You'll get all
> : dressed up and come home satisfied if several of
> : the women complimented your outfit and asked if
> : you'd lost a few pounds.
>
> What kind of women do you hang out with? That's awfully shallow.
Just one, actually. She doesn't hang her tits out, but she does glow
when some other woman compliments her on her outfit. I would say 80
some percent of other women would too.
> Men at the same party would wait until I was
> alone, then ask for my number, or make some comment about my tits
hanging
> out with an appreciative whistle, or whatever way men decide to tell
me
> that I am worthy of receiving their penises for the evening.
And you think a woman that likes a compliment from another woman is
shallow?
> You are
> supporting my contention, BTW, that men are dictating how women
should
> look.
Men dictate that women should look good. Women dictate what looks
good. Since all women's style is dictated by a woman's perspective
(even if the designer has testicles), we men pick which look best
under the conditions that have been set for us.
> I also think your argument is a
> bit double-sided. You outright say that men focus on physical looks,
then
> blame women for noticing.
>
I haven't blamed anything on women. I'm saying "this is the way it
is" and not saying it's anyone's fault.
PatMull is just a fat bastard
like kissing, cuddling and makin dates wit MEN
Pat
It was greah doh
"The Sage" <k.pr...@iegateway.net> wrote in message
news:eoGH6.29946$PF4....@news.iol.ie...
>
PatMull is just a fat bastard
Pat
"Cat" <cath...@NORUBBISHPLEASEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5hGH6.13172$_W2....@news.indigo.ie...
>
>
>
> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Pilar Quezzaire
: Pilar wrote:
:> This part of the equestion is not
:> men's fault per se, but I wonder aloud here if men spent less time
: on
:> looks, would heterosexual women feel their bodies were battlegrounds
: for
:> control? Probably not as much.
: It is absolutely against all rules of human behavior for a man not be
: concious of a woman's looks. The standard of looks may vary from
: culture to culture, but the conciousness remains.
There is a difference between looking and judging, and that is what is at
issue here.
: I disagree. I considered that gay men make up a major percentage of
: designers, but I don't count them as "men" in this context. I mean no
: insult at all to them in this comment. I simply feel they are not
: designing from a male perspective. They don't see women as a sexual
: identity. They are designing as a woman would see a woman.
They are too designing from a male perspective! It's a gay male
perspective, which, incidentally, is focused on MEN, not WOMEN. In fact, a
lot of gay males are misogynistic, which is pretty deadly in the fashion
industry! Why do you think youth and lack of womanliness are part of the
fashion model's image? BECAUSE WOMEN IN FASHION ARE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AS
UN-FEMALE AS POSSIBLE. That's one aspect.
Oy Tony, you really are ignorant.
:> At the top, men are largely calling the shots, and in the general
: population, men are accepting that women
:> should be judged on physical looks.
: Again, I disagree. Your implication is that the better a woman looks,
: the better she is judged in the workplace. I agree that women - and
: men - are hired, noticed and promoted based a good part on looks.
: There is a point, though, that a woman is considered dangerous if too
: good looking. Attractive, yes. Well groomed, yes. Knockout, drop
: dead beautiful, no.
And guess what.
You're still using LOOKS as the principle criteria, and proving my point
better than any club-wielding Neanderthal might. Some of us are not
accepting all of this bullshit as human nature.
: Certainly. As I said, I'm offering commentary on what really goes on.
Then CHANGE IT.
: I'm dealing with facts. They may be unfair judgements also, but the
: fact is that the world works this way.
Judgements are not facts. They are opinions made into facts by peiople
who'd find it too hard to change.
:> : Don't argue that it's because the women want to
:> : please men. Take a look at "Vogue" or "Elle" and
:> : tell me that anything in there is there to please
:> : men.
:>
:> First off, I didn't argue that.
: You would've. I cut you off at the pass.
Don't tell me what I would and would not argue, you barbarian.
: Second, I personally know a lot of men who
:> buy Elle to look at the models. Maybe not you, but don't be so naive
: as to
:> think you are a representative sample.
: C'mon. My wife subscribes to "Vanity Fair". (Great mag; I love the
: articles). The models are freaks dressed as freaks. VF is an inch
: thick with ads, and there might be one layout with a really attractive
: woman. And then, she's dressed in a tinfoil tutu with makeup by
: Sherwin Williams.
Are we talking about Elle, or Vanity Fair? Theya re two TOTALLY different
magazines.
: I have the Swimsuit issue since I am an annual subscriber to Sports
: Illustrated. This last one was a bust. (sic) Buncha dogs. Skinny
: dogs, but dogs. The editors have gone "arty" and have forgotten what
: made the issue special in the past.
Right. Big tits and women looking like objects for you to jack off to, or
whatever.
:> : Hon, it's women that are telling you how to look.
:>
:> Oh that is really wrong in my case. Women tell me I look great.
: Wha? Your reply proves my point.
No, they are telling me I look fine as I am. You misinterpret here. No
one's dictating to me how I should look.
:> Tony, this is pure ignorance of the fashion industry, so I'll leave
: this
:> alone.
: As above, the designers may be men but they are designing from a
: female perspective.
Are you having a hard time accepting that gay men are still men? They are
not women, it is not a woman's perspective. Gay culture is nothing LIKE
women's culture, and your ignorance just goes to prove how little you know
of what you are talking about.
: They don't have a panel of lumberjacks advising
: them on hemlines and bodice cuts. Their verification as designers is
: the acceptance by women of their designs. Women set the styles, women
: critique the shows, and women provide the fashion reviews. The staff
: at WWD couldn't jump over to Mechanic's Illustrated and get a job.
Wow, there's the biggest list of machismo stereotypes I've ever heard in
my life. Oonga Boonga, bang-your-chest, join-the-MArines-and-shoto-commies
kind of stereotypes.
Toiny, what do you KNOW about gay culture?
:> What kind of women do you hang out with? That's awfully shallow.
: Just one, actually. She doesn't hang her tits out, but she does glow
: when some other woman compliments her on her outfit. I would say 80
: some percent of other women would too.
I guess you have no female friends?
:> Men at the same party would wait until I was
:> alone, then ask for my number, or make some comment about my tits
: hanging
:> out with an appreciative whistle, or whatever way men decide to tell
: me
:> that I am worthy of receiving their penises for the evening.
: And you think a woman that likes a compliment from another woman is
: shallow?
No., I think a simple comment doesn't prove women control how other women
look.
: Men dictate that women should look good. Women dictate what looks
: good. Since all women's style is dictated by a woman's perspective
: (even if the designer has testicles), we men pick which look best
: under the conditions that have been set for us.
You. Are. Ignorant.
I'm not going into the reams of discussion on gay culture to disprove you.
You've pretty much said fags are women, and that's your opinion. It might
be very hard for you to understand for whatever reason, but women in
general are not represented in the fashion industry, they have societal
pressures placed upon them that are part-in-parcel to a male-dominated
society. Men shouldn't be telling women to "look good", just as women
shouldn't do the same,. or tell a man he has to make money to be worth
anything. If you accept that kind of antiquated unecessary bullshit as
"how it is," it certainly is never going to change.
--
Just Pilar
Tony Cooper
> Oy Tony, you really are ignorant.
Possibly.
> better than any club-wielding Neanderthal might.
Maybe.
> you barbarian.
>
Could be.
> Right. Big tits and women looking like objects for you to jack off
to, or
> whatever.
No, but the accusation doesn't offend me. If I meet a woman very
briefly, I'm more apt to retain if she had attractive eyes, good
teeth, and something about the lips that are sexy. Of course, if the
tits are hanging out I will get around to them eventually. I've
always been that way.
> and your ignorance just goes to prove how little you know
> of what you are talking about.
It's been said by others. Quite frequently in SCI.
> Wow, there's the biggest list of machismo stereotypes I've ever
heard in
> my life. Oonga Boonga, bang-your-chest,
join-the-MArines-and-shoto-commies
> kind of stereotypes.
I will see if the shoe fits.
> You. Are. Ignorant.
I seem to have struck a chord.
> You've pretty much said fags are women, and that's your opinion.
This is offensive. I don't use the term.
I don't feel I've denigrated gay men in any way. I would consider it
offensive to do so.
I said that male fashion designers that are gay don't design women's
clothes from a male perspective. They don't see women as a sexual
identity. They look for approprobation from women for their design
efforts, not men. Women buy the clothes (who actually pays is
irrelevant), women decide who is an acceptable designer, women decide
which fashion to follow, women buy the fashion magazines, and women
dominate the fashion industry. It's an industry judged by one of the
least attractive harpies on these shores: Joan Rivers. Only a woman
would give Joan Rivers any credence. Mr. Blackwell, at least, lends
style and panache to his dissections.
If you choose to disagree with my opinion....fine. It would be a dull
NG without disagreement. However, don't make me a gay basher because
you disagree with my assessment of the fashion industry.
>They are too designing from a male perspective! It's a gay male
>perspective, which, incidentally, is focused on MEN, not WOMEN.
A "male perspective", in this context, would be a perspective of what
looks good to a male. I don't think they take this into
consideration. They have the ability to assume the female perspective
of what looks good to a female. They'd be unsuccessful in their field
if they didn't. There are hetero male fashion designers, and they are
successful because they can assume the female perspective and design
to it.
Incidently, this discussion has centered only on the high fashion
segment. There are segments of the fashion industry that are quite
different. There's the "bimbo" market. That's the market that's
designed from the male perspective. That's the stuff the men buy and
take home to their wives or girlfriends. There's the teenage girl
market (Bimbette) that's designed for the MTV group. There's the
sedate Lane Bryant market of turquoise pants suits and those cover-up
tops that conceal the middle body parts. There's the muu-muu market,
and the specialty markets like Afrocentric styles and much more.
--
Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
Provider of Jots & Tittles
In fact, a
Tony Cooper
> Are we talking about Elle, or Vanity Fair? Theya re two TOTALLY
different
> magazines.
You must not be familiar with VF. The ads are the same. The editorial
part is different. It's not like I'm comparing Elle with Essence or
Belle.
Surge
complete scam. Here's how to lose weight.
Eat less things.
Make those things tend towards the low-fat end.
Get some bloody exercise.
There. £500 please.
// It's always funny until someone gets hurt.
// Then it's hilarious.
Pilar Quezzaire
: Pilar wrote:
:> You've pretty much said fags are women, and that's your opinion.
: This is offensive. I don't use the term.
Tony, your comments are just as offensive. That is why I used the terms.
Bad things said politely are still Bad Things (tm).
Do you want to get some literature in gay studies and women's studies
discussing some of this? Your attitudes are antiquated and uninformed at
best.
: I don't feel I've denigrated gay men in any way. I would consider it
: offensive to do so.
You just did. Gay men are not women, and they have a man's perspective.
It's insulting to tell someone they are part of somethign they are not, or
excluding them from something they are. That is what you did here. I don't
know too many gay men, aside some who have transgendered feelings, who
woudl say they have a "feminine" perpective, or speak for women. For the
most part, women are not in their private lives. Gay male culture is one
of the least women-friendly cultures I can think of -- not usually because
of outright hostility, but because women do not have the same kind of
presence, even if their images are occasionally appropriated.
: I said that male fashion designers that are gay don't design women's
: clothes from a male perspective.
Yes, they do. They dont' have any other perspective. Most don't even know
women's bodies, or care about them. Why would anyone want women to have to
starve to fit into their clothes....?
: They don't see women as a sexual identity.
Or as a real one. Lacking sexual identification does not provide positive
objectivity in this case.
This still of course does not explain why so many female designers are
doing similar -- a few, like Stella McCartney and Donna KAran, have made
clothes that are better for women's bodies. Most, however, are following
the trends often set by men of either sexuality. It's disturbing.
: They look for approprobation from women for their design
: efforts, not men. Women buy the clothes (who actually pays is
: irrelevant), women decide who is an acceptable designer, women decide
: which fashion to follow, women buy the fashion magazines, and women
: dominate the fashion industry.
Let's say you wanted some apples. The store sells nothing but bananas. How
would you, wanting apples, go about getting them?
"Fashion" starts with young girls, who are told through magazines and TV
ads that only certain, unrealistic body types are considered beautiful.
The boys they meet (I am obviously considering heterosexual girls)
reinforce said body type by opening admiring the images they see. MEn are
the photographers, the plastic surgeons, the fashion designers, and the
magazine editors.
In all of this, how many of the people who count in this are women? Girls?
Until you've seen someone die of anorexia, this may be hard to understand,
but all of this imagery ultimately becomes an issue far beyod fashion or
frivolity. Self-image is still dictated througha decidedly male gaze.
I'm in essence telling you right-out that you are responsible in large
part for a lot of this. It saddens me that more women don't reject these
assumptions, and more men refuse to take responsibility.
This is called copping out.
: If you choose to disagree with my opinion....fine. It would be a dull
: NG without disagreement. However, don't make me a gay basher because
: you disagree with my assessment of the fashion industry.
You're not gay bashing. You're ignorant of gay culture and feminine
perspectives. And you insist upon being so, which starts to border on
outright insult. Bashing? No. But did it ever occur to you that your
politely-put opinions are just as, if not more damaging, because of their
ubitquitousness and authority? Think about that.
: A "male perspective", in this context, would be a perspective of what
: looks good to a male.
They are designing what good to a male -- themselves. Designers don't
design for the general population -- they make fantasties of bodies and
their clothes. Go to a runway show, especially spring season, in PAris or
Milan. You can see how self-centered designers are, and how little the
women who wear their clothes mean to them personally. They are mannequins.
My mother was a model -- she developed anorexia in order to be told to
have "those nasty tits taped down" by a designer. Read stories of models
who experiended similar pain in order to be made the images you oggle over
in magazines. There is NOTHING that indicates fashion is for women.
: Incidently, this discussion has centered only on the high fashion
: segment. There are segments of the fashion industry that are quite
: different. There's the "bimbo" market. That's the market that's
: designed from the male perspective. That's the stuff the men buy and
: take home to their wives or girlfriends. There's the teenage girl
: market (Bimbette) that's designed for the MTV group. There's the
: sedate Lane Bryant market of turquoise pants suits and those cover-up
: tops that conceal the middle body parts. There's the muu-muu market,
: and the specialty markets like Afrocentric styles and much more.
I agree. We're getting into public relations here, and I could go on ad
nauseum about the male gaze in each of the examples you mentioned. But you
and I havent' read the same things, don't have the same perspective, and I
really don't know how to impress upon you just how incorrect you are.
--
Just Pilar
Pilar Quezzaire
:> Are we talking about Elle, or Vanity Fair? Theya re two TOTALLY
: different
:> magazines.
: You must not be familiar with VF. The ads are the same. The editorial
: part is different. It's not like I'm comparing Elle with Essence or
: Belle.
I'm quite familiar with VF. I'd consider Essence to be much more like Elle
than Vanity Fair, in format and aim. They're just made for different
audiences.
VF is intended to cater not to a general audience, but the upperclass and
those intent on certain types of entertainment. I consider the magazine to
be somewhat snobbish, and many of its articles are mocking of the
entertainers they profile. The ads are the same because a limited number
of sponsors are available. I BET if VF had a choice, they'd have nothing
but Brooks Brothers, Citizen, and Lexus ads, with an occasional spread for
Bailey, Banks, and Biddle.
--
Just Pilar
kfuzzbox
> Here's how to lose weight.
>
> Eat less things.
> Make those things tend towards the low-fat end.
> Get some bloody exercise.
amen.
But the 'low-fat' stuff will make you fat. It's the biggest scam of all.
China Kate Sunflower
I find that to be true as well. Low-fat food is so unsatisfying that I find
myself eating more food (and thus more calories) to make up for it.
Surge
<norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com> wrote:
>>
>>But the 'low-fat' stuff will make you fat. It's the biggest scam of all.
Erm, by low fat I meant like vegetables, turkey, fish etc.
There is less fat in a plate of homemade thick-cut chips than in a tub
of yogurt.
kfuzzbox
wrote:
> Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like? Their walls are built on
> cannonballs, kfuz...@tinet.ie's motto is:
> >But the 'low-fat' stuff will make you fat. It's the biggest scam of all.
>
> I find that to be true as well. Low-fat food is so unsatisfying that I find
> myself eating more food (and thus more calories) to make up for it.
>
Unless you have a heart or high-colestoral problem, eat a
high-protein/low carbohydrate breakfast (no toast or bread) forget about
lunch and have the same thing for dinner. If you get peckish during the
day eat some cheese, but not processed cheese. The low-fat stuff is
mostly chemicals and the fillers are starch and carbohydrates which turn
to sugar in the body and is stored on your body as fat reserves. The fat
in food is very different than the fat your body makes. Do not eat root
vegetables it you can help it and stay away from fruit juices. Eat stuff
the way nature produces it. I've lost 100lbs in the last year doing this
and it's still falling off me. It's not dieting at all, just getting the
way our grandparents used to eat. You're correct, if you eat satisfying
fatty foods you'll be less hungry and won't snack either. Your energy
levels will shoot up as well and exercise becomes easier. Also high
carbohydrate foods are highly addictive and cause depression as well.
Cut out rice, potatoes, pasta and beans and the weight will fall off. I
am not talking through my arse here I am living proof. Just because
something is healthy for you does not mean it won't make you fat. In
fact, there is a good chance that it will do just that.
Cat
Er.. sorry, but in my book the only way forward is a little of everything in
moderation. I have yet to come across a (competent and qualified)
nutritionist who advises people to stay away from any one group of foods
(except perhaps sweets and high fat products), or recommends to eat just one
food group.
The best guide is the food pyramid - you eat most of what's at the bottom
(carbs, followed by 5 or more portions of veg a day) and least of what's at
the top (sweets and high fat products).
Eat a balanced diet, with reasonable portion sizes, and minimal rubbish,
exercise for at least 1/2 hour at least 3 times a week, and you will feel
better and lose weight.
Cat(h)
> kfuz...@tinet.ie
Surge
> ... lots of interesting stuff about diet.
Surely it's horses for courses though? What about this food allergy
stuff - maybe your system doesn't like carbs? I eat vast amounts of
bread, reice, veg, make my own fruit juice and very little fried food,
almost no red meat. What if that works for me?
Surge
You are!
Anyway, what about fibre - do you get enough from what you eat or do
you have to eat All-Bran or something? It's just that if I went to the
loo after a month of high-protein food I'd think I was shitting a
wardrobe.
China Kate Sunflower
>
>On 2 May 2001 08:34:01 -0700, China Kate Sunflower
><norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>But the 'low-fat' stuff will make you fat. It's the biggest scam of all.
>
>Erm, by low fat I meant like vegetables, turkey, fish etc.
>
>There is less fat in a plate of homemade thick-cut chips than in a tub
>of yogurt.
Too much starch. A cup of lowfat or nonfat yougurt has only a couple of grams
or no grams at all of fat, and 120 calories.
Pilar Quezzaire
:> ... lots of interesting stuff about diet.
: Surely it's horses for courses though? What about this food allergy
: stuff - maybe your system doesn't like carbs? I eat vast amounts of
: bread, reice, veg, make my own fruit juice and very little fried food,
: almost no red meat. What if that works for me?
Then do it?
I can't eat much carbs (my body has an insulin imbalance with process
sugar too quickly into fat). Too much fat makes me sick, and too much
protein I can't digest. I have to eat a balanced diet.
I'm still not a stick, but at least I'm healthy.
--
Just Pilar
kfuzzbox
> On Wed, 2 May 2001 18:02:22 +0000, kfuz...@tinet.ie (kfuzzbox) wrote:
>
> > ... lots of interesting stuff about diet.
>
> Surely it's horses for courses though? What about this food allergy
> stuff - maybe your system doesn't like carbs?
You're right and I forgot to mention this. I think everybody's body is
very different and what works for one person may not work for another
and so on. However the diet industry is a "one size fits all" operation.
All I know is that I know people who have nothing but low-fat foods in
their house, go to the gym constantly and they are fatter than ever and
getting fatter. My asthma also vanished as well when I stop eating a
high-carb diet. In Ireland this afternoon a study came out saying that
Ireland has one of highest rates of asthma in the world. I am certain
that diet may be involved as Irish kids exist mainly of starch and
carbohydrates.
> I eat vast amounts of
> bread, reice, veg, make my own fruit juice and very little fried food,
> almost no red meat. What if that works for me?
Then we agree. All I know is that it seems to be this rise in obesity
which follows the rise in the so-called mediterean diet. I see it in
this country. 15 years ago nobody ate pasta or rice and fat people were
very rare, especially children. Today we are all on pasta and sauces and
look that all the fatso walking around. Mass produced supermarket pasta
and sauce is a very different creature than what is traditionally eaten
in Italy. I know one woman in Dublin who got to frying her frozen chips
in olive oil thinking it would make her lose weight. There is all this
bullshit about low-fat = weight loss and it's just not true - it's
making people fat. Not you are lucky Surge that this diet works for you,
but a lot of people, the majority in fact, it certainly is NOT WORKING.
Carbohydrates in the form of root vegetables and cereals were only ever
meant to be eaten by the human body at the end of the harvest and not
all year around. Why do people have so much trouble understanding this
fact? This is another thing I have adopted as well I only eat foods that
are IN SEASON. I think this is important as well.
Now the main reason I put on weight was because of a reaction to a
medication I was on about 4 years ago. Still, I have been off that stuff
for 3 years and I was still fat even though I wasn't not a big eater and
when I did it was the whole low-fat/mediterean diet bollox thinking just
like the doctor said. Result; I got fatter. So I saw an article in a
woman's magazine called Prima in which s trashed the whole low-fat myth
and claimed without reservation that the word "fat" is used to con
people into buying certain brands of foods.
Listen, I am not a doctor or a dietitian, but my weight loss on this
diet has been staggering to the point here people who haven't seen me
for a while think I am either sick or don't recognise me. I am different
person. I have this big manly chest, I have strength and muscles I never
knew I had and I've gone from a 40" waist to a 32" waist and I think I
can manage a 30" which I haven't had in about 15 years. I don't get sick
as much as I used to. My libido has gone through the roof. Even things
like my fingernails seem to grow faster. The great thing is that I am
never hungry they way people on diets always are. I am just going back
to the way people used to eat in the past and it's worked for me.
kfuzzbox
> On Wed, 2 May 2001 18:02:22 +0000, kfuz...@tinet.ie (kfuzzbox) wrote:
> > It's not dieting at all,
>
> You are!
>
> Anyway, what about fibre - do you get enough from what you eat or do
> you have to eat All-Bran or something? It's just that if I went to the
> loo after a month of high-protein food I'd think I was shitting a
> wardrobe.
The fibre thing is starting to look more and more like a myth as well.
Without being graphic I have very little fiber in my diet and my stools
are hard and unsmelly and I am very regular. When I did the
high-fibre/low fat thing I had sticky shite and got a lot more rashes
and the like on my arsehole. You can now set a clock by my ringpiece
these days (except when I have a tummy bug). Again, we are living in an
age were food is being sold as medicine and not for nutrition.
Have you seen the new ads from Cheerios with yer one from the Body Shop?
You'd would think she was selling a drug and not a breakfast cereal.
They always say things like "may lower colesteral..." and "studies have
shown...". But who are these research labs doing these studies and do
they receive finding from the likes of Nestle and General Mills and
Kellogg's?
Anyway back to the high-fibre thing - the latest research (Irish Times
last week) is that it's all a big scam and people with high-fibre diets
seem to have no lower rates of colon cancer than the ones who don't.
It's like the Woody Allen film Sleeper when they discover in the future
that things like alcohol and fried food is better for you and health
food makes you sick. Speaking of movies. I was looking at an old
American movie from the 1960's on TV a few months back and they showed
some shots of people in offices in New York working at desks. None of
them in the offices, walking the street or on the subway was fat. I saw
thousands of people in these scenes. Now I worked in an office in New
York until a few years back and a large percentage of the men that
worked there were very overweight. A lot of the young lads as well. Why?
The the lifestyles of office workers in New York in the 1960's and today
is the same. They sit at desk, they communte the same way etc.. Now you
compare the diets of the people of the 1960's and compare it to the ones
today and you see that back then they had a diet rich in fats and
protein while today its low in fats and very high in carbohydrates and
they are all fat bastards!
Some of the recent studies into depression have been moving more and
more toward a link between high-carbohydrate diets and increases rates
of depression. Wouldn't it be a tragedy it we discovered that so much of
the depression in young men today is cased by their diet and then it
turned out that they were eating food that was suppose to make them
healthy? Stranger shit has happened. Untin the 1960's American cigarette
companies were advertising cigarettes as being healthy because they
"cleared your lucgs of germs and bacteria".
I really think that the foods that people are eating today are messing
us up in a lot of ways. I was in America last year and after being in
Ireland for a while it was amazing to see that most Americans don't eat
food they consume chemicals for the purpose of medicine/weight loss as
oppose to nutrition. You ask for butter you get a low-fat spread called
Lite-Spread or some such bollox, which contains mostly carbohydrates.
Sugars has been replaced with chemical sweeteners and so on and the
pattern is the same - they are all eating low-fat products and wearing
XXL clothes. All their grandparents never touched a low-fat product in
their lives, ate real butter, put real sugar and cream in their coffee
and ENJOYED their food. Because it was more satisfying they ate less.
The results are there for anybody to see. Of course the likes of
Kellogg, Weight Watchers, Slim-Fast and the Diet Industry do not want
you to make this logical connection because there is no money for them
in it.
kfuzzbox
Cat <cathy_ie@(spamfree)yahoo.com> wrote:
> The best guide is the food pyramid - you eat most of what's at the bottom
> (carbs, followed by 5 or more portions of veg a day) and least of what's at
> the top (sweets and high fat products).
Been there, done that, bought the XL T-shirt. Sorry babe, but it made me
a fat bastard. The food pyramid was developed by agricultural and food
producing interests to sell their shit. It's origins are in Wall Street.
It was done with their interest in mind and not yours. The Masai tribes
of Kenya live mainly on Ox Blood and the Eskimos mostly on fish and
blubber and they never saw a food pyramid in their lives and are much
healthier than most of us in the West are currently. I never ate sweets
in my life really.
> Eat a balanced diet, with reasonable portion sizes, and minimal rubbish,
> exercise for at least 1/2 hour at least 3 times a week, and you will feel
> better and lose weight.
Maybe. You could also get cancer, hyperglycemia or become a fat bastard
as well. Like Surge said "horses for courses". My way worked for me and
I am the healthiest I have been since I was a teenager. Again the food
pyramid is generally ignored by yours truly and I am alive and healthy
and looking and feeling great. The food pyramid didn't help my 40" inch
waist get smaller. I know loads of fatties at the gym - everybody
trying to lose the weight the food pyramid made them put on. If I see
something with my own eyes I mainly accept that it exists.
Just because your told it works does not mean that it does. In fact,
look around at all the fat people in gyms, on worthless and expensive
weight-loss programmes doing their "balanced diet" thing. The fattest
black people in the world are the ones who don't live in Africa. Look at
the Native American populations of the USA and what the white man's food
pyramid has done to them. It goes on and on and on and I no longer fall
for the con because I saw it with my own eyes for the sham it was and I
recommended this to other people I've know who have weight problems and
they are kissing my ass.
I've found the answer and it's nothing to do with anything the vast
legions of dietician and nutritionist (the profession of failures?) have
been telling for so long now. Fuck me, there were less fat people before
health food stores and nutritionist! If you can find me anybody who has
lost as much weight as I have and more importantly KEPT IT OFF on any
traditional diet program, under the supervision of a nutritionist, or
without have to kill themselves in gyms constantly then I'd like to meet
them. So don't tell me what might work for me, because I know what DID
WORK and it wasn't no bleedin food pyramid or balanced diet or killing
myself in a gym.
Cat
kfuzzbox <kfuz...@tinet.ie> wrote in message
news:2001050220...@p51.as1.sligo1.eircom.net...
>
>
snip slimming rant
Take it easy my slender friend. I have simply known too many people whose
weight - and more to the point health - has yoyoed ridiculously because they
go from one fad diet to the next. I did not suggest that what you did did
not work for you - if it did, bully for you. All I'm saying is be careful
not to miss out on essential nutrients.
And whatever you do, do not forget to polish them alabaster buttocks... 28
inch waist you may be, but don't you dare cheating me of my favourite marbly
cheeks !
Cat(h)
Tony Cooper
The Masai tribes
> of Kenya live mainly on Ox Blood
Well, not "mainly", but they do/did drink the blood of cattle for the
protein. A common souvenier item seen there is the little gourd cup
they use to catch the blood from a nick in the cow's neck. I dunno if
it's done that much any more. There are grocery stores all about the
place.
They also do/did eat termites for the protein. They have these huge
termite mounds (some up to 20' tall) and the Kenyans scoop them out
and roast them like popcorn on a screen held over a fire. I saw it
done, but passed on actually sampling the termites.
John McCormack
kfuzzbox wrote:
> Unless you have a heart or high-colestoral problem, eat a
> high-protein/low carbohydrate breakfast (no toast or bread) forget about
> lunch and have the same thing for dinner. ...
> .....
> Cut out rice, potatoes, pasta and beans
What else is there ?, all I eat is rice, pasta and beans. I can't think of what
would replace them, it doesn't help that my knowledge of food and cooking is
terrible. Can you give me an example breakfast and dinner so that I can see what
you are talking about ?.
The Sage
"John McCormack" <johnmc...@ireland.com> wrote in message
news:3AF087CE...@ireland.com...
>
>
> kfuzzbox wrote:
>
> > Unless you have a heart or high-colestoral problem, eat a
> > high-protein/low carbohydrate breakfast (no toast or bread) forget about
> > lunch and have the same thing for dinner. ...
> > .....
> > Cut out rice, potatoes, pasta and beans
>
less since I was 16 - between 175 and 180 lbs. I wear the same size shirt,
16, and have the same waist,34 since I was 16. Some days I love to eat,
others I don't bother because i don't feel like it. I think your body will
tell you what to eat. I couldn't eat fries every day simply because I would
tire very easily of them. Some days I just love them. I eat, or don't, what
my body tells me through my appetite.
Sage
kfuzzbox
OK this is my daily diet (vegetarians I'm sorry)
Breakfast: One rasher and two scrambled eggs or One sausage (a good
brand like Shaws which is only 10% rusk) or 2 hard boiled eggs chopped
up with scallions and tomatoes and mixed with Hellmanns moyonaise (not
the low fat stuff as it's filled with sugar and starches) no toast, no
juice (loaded with carbohydrates) 2 cups of tea with real sugar and
full-cream milk 1 orange
I know people don't believe me, but because my taste buds have been
satisfied and I have stocked-up on protein and actully feel nurished I
don't need lunch so I skip it. If I am doing physical work and I need a
little "something" I'll have an orange or some cheese or make up some
tuna salad and eat it on a bed of lettuce. But I generally do not have
lunch. I often make a salsa from chopped tomatoes, onions and coriander
which I find is really satisfying and easy to make.
Dinner: Meat (pork, chicken, fish, beef from the butchers nothing
processed or pre-packed) veg (nearly always brocolli with roasted garlic
or roasted in the ovion with onions and paprika) with real full cream
butter sauteed onions or mushrooms
This is how I eat at home. Sure I'll have a burger or a kebab now and
again. But I won't have chips. I drink tea and coffee all day long as
well. I don't smoke and I do exercise but nothing excessive.
Also, the thing with the rice is that it's not so bad if it not
processed white or brown rice and you eat small portions. A lot of
ethnic food stores sell rice which is not as refined and starchy as
Uncle Bens or shite like that. Pasta is terrible unless you make it
yourself or buy really good fresh pasta. Pasta sauce from the store is
very, very fattening. Beans and peas are a killer. But as I said some
people eat this stuff and do alright. I don't and I think a lot of other
people don't as well.
If you don't have a problem with weight then don't bother with my diet.
Same if your family has a history of heart disease. All I know is that
it has worked wonders for me. I am at the age when most lads are putting
on weight and I am losing it big time. Now this could be a result of my
body getting back to normal after me blowing-up because of a reaction to
a medication. But the fact is that I was off that medication for ages
and I was still a fat bastard. I started eating like this last August
and I noticed a difference at once. I had more energy (incredible
amounts), I can fuck for ages now, my mind even seems to be sharper and
my memory as well. I am lifting weights now and I walk at least 10 miles
a week and sometimes 20. My bowel movements are solid and I shit like
clockwork. I am not skinny and I probably never will be. I still have
flappy skin around my belly that haven't toned-up yet but I am thinking
of taking up yoga classes and well see what happens. I can't complain
all things considered - I was in bits not long ago and know I am in good
shape and feel better about myself.
Also if you drink stay away from guinness, and mass produced stuff like
bud and coors (as if you needed a reason) and drink proper larger and
red wine only. That's it really. I never ate sweets really and yes I do
get cravings for Indian take-aways and Pizza but the craving are very
rare and nothing compare to when I used to eat that stuff on a regular
basis when the cravings were constant as carbohydrates are very, very
addictive. The bottom line is (and this is just me talking about my
experience) stay away from carbohydrates and avoid anything with the
label (low-fat) on it. If you are worried about how it affects your
heart see you doctor first.
The stuff that makes you put on weight: Corguettes (zuchinni)
Potatoes Sauces of any kind Carrots oatmeal any breakfast cereal low-fat
coffee creamers frozen yougut low fat spreads nuts (very fattening)
pasta bananas olive oil red peppers apples soups and anything with
'low-fat' on the label (again please bear I mind that the above foods
are healthy and good for you, but they will make most people fat)
Like I said sometimes I have these things and it's no big deal because
it does not cause the same depression as when you break a low-fat diet.
How can you feel guilty about have a bread roll or clam chowder compared
to eating a tub of ice cream the way someone on weight-watchers will do?
You just don't feel as guilty and the effect are far less severe.
I could show you pictures of me from two years ago compared to today and
I look like my own son in the recent pictures. It worked and the amazing
thing is that I didn't feel like I was denying myself of starving at any
stage. Also my shopping bills were reduced by about 25%.
The food industry has the western world conned. Do you think the major
food companies want people to have the above diet anymore than the auto
industry wants us to drive electric cars? Look at the source and then
seen the scam. Like the man said "horses for courses"
Tony Cooper
> :> You've pretty much said fags are women, and that's your opinion.
>
> : This is offensive. I don't use the term.
>
> Tony, your comments are just as offensive. That is why I used the
terms.
> Bad things said politely are still Bad Things (tm).
You're spouting absolute bullshit. You're the one flinging "fag"
about and rationalizing it because you now claim it is to make a
point. My original post didn't reference gay designers. You brought
that in.
> : I don't feel I've denigrated gay men in any way. I would consider
it
> : offensive to do so.
>
> You just did. Gay men are not women, and they have a man's
perspective.
You've got a perception as narrow as a butterfly's asshole. A
person - gay, straight, or bi - is not limited to one set of
perspectives. My comments had to do with their perspective of
fashion, and that perspective being a female perspective. A person's
fashion perspective is not the sum and total of the person. Not all
gays have any fashion perception at all. You're subscribing to
stereotypes if you think they do, or if you think they all are neat,
artistic, and flutter their hands when they talk.
I believe the gay men that are successful fashion designers have the
ability to see fashion from a female perspective. I believe the
hetero men that are successful fashion designers have the ability to
see fashion from the female perspective. The same gay man that is a
successful fashion designer and sees fashion from a female perspective
may be a NBA fan and see sports from a male perspective. Perspective
relates to the task or interest, but does not dominate the person.
> It's insulting to tell someone they are part of somethign they are
not, or
> excluding them from something they are. That is what you did here. I
don't
> know too many gay men, aside some who have transgendered feelings,
who
> woudl say they have a "feminine" perpective, or speak for women.
WTF is this? Speak for women? The conversation has to do with
sketching out ladieswear, not abortion rights or the glass ceiling.
And, the conversation has to do with the people that have risen to the
top levels of fashion design and not every gay person.
For the
> most part, women are not in their private lives. Gay male culture is
one
> of the least women-friendly cultures I can think of -- not usually
because
> of outright hostility, but because women do not have the same kind
of
> presence, even if their images are occasionally appropriated.
This has fuck-all to do with their business life of designing woman's
clothes. The ones that do, anyway.
> : I said that male fashion designers that are gay don't design
women's
> : clothes from a male perspective.
>
> Yes, they do. They dont' have any other perspective. Most don't even
know
> women's bodies, or care about them.
Oh, c'mon. A successful fashion designer has handled more women's
bodies than Wilt Chamberlin. He knows how they walk, how they stand,
how they sit, and how they move. Fashion is all about the form, not
the function. He'll start with a sketch, and sometime in the process
drape an actual female body to see how the design works.
>
> This still of course does not explain why so many female designers
are
> doing similar -- a few, like Stella McCartney and Donna KAran, have
made
> clothes that are better for women's bodies. Most, however, are
following
> the trends often set by men of either sexuality. It's disturbing.
"Better" is not necessarily more fashionable. The high fashion stuff
is not ergometric. Comfort and practicality are department store
fashion pluses.
> : They look for approprobation from women for their design
> : efforts, not men. Women buy the clothes (who actually pays is
> : irrelevant), women decide who is an acceptable designer, women
decide
> : which fashion to follow, women buy the fashion magazines, and
women
> : dominate the fashion industry.
>
> Let's say you wanted some apples. The store sells nothing but
bananas. How
> would you, wanting apples, go about getting them?
Let's see. I made a point about the influence of women in the fashion
industry, and you made a point about vegetable stands. Is this some
vague reference to Carmen Miranda?
> Self-image is still dictated througha decidedly male gaze.
Nope. Not in my opinion. Female self-image is dictated by what the
female thinks is important to her, and how she measures up to that
standard. I've personally met relatively thin women who are
absolutely convinced they are too fat and punish themselves because of
it. I've personally met attractive women who are absolutely convinced
they are unattractive and suffer low self-esteem. No amount of male
assuaging would change this. It's a psychological thing. I've only
known personally one person to suffer severe anorexia problems: the
brother of a girl my daughter went to high school with. He was
hospitalized repeatedly. A couple of my daughter's friends are
bulemic. Another is an aerobic junkie to the point of endangering her
health.
Oddly enough, my own daughter is often accused of being anorexic.
She's 5"1" and usually weighs about 95 pounds and wears a size zero in
Liz Claibourne; her favorite brand, or a 3 or 5 in some Junior or
Petite brands. She never diets, eats regular meals (but small
portions), and throws up only after Brandy Alexanders.
She is big on salads and healthy foods, but that's what my wife
prepared when the daughter grew up.
She's been treated by two doctors for weight *gain* and encouraged to
eat several times a day instead of three meals. She would like to add
about 10 pounds but can't. She's healthy as a horse.
>
> I'm in essence telling you right-out that you are responsible in
large
> part for a lot of this. It saddens me that more women don't reject
these
> assumptions, and more men refuse to take responsibility.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We men should organize a "Let Yourself Go" week to
show we assume our responsibilty.
> : If you choose to disagree with my opinion....fine. It would be a
dull
> : NG without disagreement. However, don't make me a gay basher
because
> : you disagree with my assessment of the fashion industry.
>
> You're not gay bashing. You're ignorant of gay culture and feminine
> perspectives.
Gay culture has not been a topic in this thread, and I would not
interject comments on it if were. Gay culture is something wholly
removed from the ability to design clothes. Culture is removed from
couture. There is no such thing as "gay culture". If it's culture,
it's culture to everyone regardless of sexual orientation. I may be
igonorant of femine perspective, but I'm not a fashion designer.
> They are designing what good to a male -- themselves. Designers
don't
> design for the general population -- they make fantasties of bodies
and
> their clothes. Go to a runway show, especially spring season, in
PAris or
> Milan.
I've been to two in New York. My daughter has a sorority sister
that's a buyer for a major department store chain and got my wife and
I passes when we were in New York. We went to it with the same
motivation we'd go to a circus if we hadn't seen one before.
There is NOTHING that indicates fashion is for women.
Unh huh. All Ungaro's customers are men hell-bent on keeping
womankind subservient, sticking their fingers down their throat, and
from taking control of their own destinies.
You keep referring to me as "ignorant", Pilar. Actually, I'm rather
bright. I simply have a different perspective on this issue than you
do.