Attn: Northern Ireland...
Doc Martian
Israeli war criminals and forking them over to UK authorities. After all,
the UK has always had a very 'one hand washes the other' attitude towards
statehood.
Cheers!
Doc
Harry Merrick
Hello Doc, what can you be at? Israeli war criminals eh? And what about the
Palistinian war criminals? At least the Jews in Israel do not employ terror
tactics perpetrated by terror groups such as Hamas!! I suggest that you
collect your thoughts together and come up with an un-biased suggestion! In
any case, what on earth has this to do with Northern Ireland, which is part
of the UK and British?
--
Harry Merrick.
livvy
back pretty close to 900 years. It's an education in itself. I've
been there, on vacation, also had a family member detained there by
British soldiers because she was taking pictures. We're US citizens,
we don't take that lightly. We can be detained anywhere deemed
fit. It's huge, deep, wide, it's history, it is not the next news
item you looked up on the internet. And your place in giving them
Attn:? You think they don't know this? Current history is horrid
enough,...don't be so dismissive.
Paul Carr
"Harry Merrick" <home...@hotmail.com>
??????:7qhd9f...@mid.individual.net...
> Doc Martian wrote:
>> You might be able to benefit yourselves towards statehood by nabbing
>> some Israeli war criminals and forking them over to UK authorities.
>> After all, the UK has always had a very 'one hand washes the other'
>> attitude towards statehood.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Doc
>
> Hello Doc, what can you be at? Israeli war criminals eh? And what about
> the Palistinian war criminals? At least the Jews in Israel do not employ
> terror tactics perpetrated by terror groups such as Hamas!!
1400 Palestinians were killed during last January's 3 week Israeli offensive
in Gaza as opposed to 13 Israelis killed. If that isn't state-sponsored
terrorism, I don't know what is.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/07/world/international-us-palestinians-israel-gaza.html
Harry Merrick
And why, one wonders? Is it not fact that for years Hamas has persisted in
attacking Israel, firing rockets into Israeli territory on a daily basis,
despite and in defiance of world attempts to make them stop? Is it not fact
that Hamas are using tunnels which they dug in the sand in order to smuggle
arms and ammo into Gaza? Is it not fact that these reasons amongst many are
why Israel had no choice but to bombard Gaza in order to try to stop all
this and defend their citizens? Is it not fact that Hamas deliberately used
the people and children of Gaza to shelter behind, deliberately to foster
such emotive drivel as you are perpetrating? Oh come ON!! Your thought
processes are exactly those of supporters of the PIRA and their bombing
attacks. They don't and won't work!
--
Harry Merrick.
Paul Carr
"Harry Merrick" <home...@hotmail.com>
??????:7qodtl...@mid.individual.net...
1,434 people were killed during during Israel's 22-day offensive in the
Hamas-ruled Gaza strip, including 960 civilians. Of those 960 civilians, 288
children and 121 women were killed in the bombing and shelling.
The Initial air assault was timed "when children were returning from school
and crowds were milling in the streets of densely populated Gaza City. It
took only a few minutes to kill over 200 people and wound 700".
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20090119.htm
Is the life of an Israeli child in Sderot more valuable than the life of a
Palestinian child in the Gaza strip?
The Israeli government's and military's intention was not to defeat the
military wing of Hamas. That would have been militarily impossible. Their
intent was, rather, to terrorize the 1.5 million civilian population of the
Gaza strip.
The Israeli assault on the Gaza strip was an international war crime. It
was an assault on the collective human values of decency, morality and
fair-play.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Harry Merrick
Hamas! All the Palestinians and Hamas have to do is stop attacking Israel
all the time. The PIRA used exactly the same tactics in Northern Ireland as
Hamas is doing in Gaza. That too caused thousands to die including children.
Don't remember you whinging about that at the time! Been there done that
seen it all before!
--
Harry Merrick.
Paul Carr
"Harry Merrick" <home...@hotmail.com>
??????:7qv38o...@mid.individual.net...
I didn't write that Hamas was killing children. I wrote that the Israeli
armed forces killed children.
Harry Merrick
Ah, and you think I wasn't fully aware what you wrote? Your usual
obfuscations and biased opinions I see!!
--
Harry Merrick.
Paul Carr
??????:7r0ap0...@mid.individual.net...
In my opinion, there would be peace within a few weeks if the US were
to stop giving unconditional support for Israel and, instead, re-join
the rest of the world in supporting the international consensus,
namely a two-state solution for Israel/Palestine which virtually every
State in the world supports except Israel and the USA. Even Hamas
supports the two-state solution.
But, I have low expectations of Barack Obama. I think he's a real
disappointment especially when it comes to foreign policy. Actually,
in terms of foreign policy, I think he's even worse than George W.
Bush. George W. Bush had a foreign policy that matched his Texan
swagger and mangled English. Obama doesn't have the swagger or the
mangled English but he pursues a foreign policy that matches up
closely with it. In other words, he's pretty much following the same
foreign policy as George W. Bush, especially when it comes to Israel/
Palestine. Barack Obama, like many in his political party, labours
under the fantasy that he, by virtue of his office, is spreading
democracy and human rights across the globe. At least, George W. Bush
and his Republicans tended to be more realistic about this and sought
to cut through the bullshit. Obama is often, it seems to me, living
in cloud cockoo-land.
Within days of taking office, Barack Obama made it clear in a press
conference he wasn't interested in bringing about peace in Palestine/
Israel despite the fact that he had and has the power to do so. He
fell back on weasel words. A visiting Martian would call it lies.
His supporters would call it eloquence.
There has been a significant peace offer on the table for 3 decades
from Israel's Arab neighbours - the two-state solution. The latest
Arab league offer has the support of no less a figure than the present
King of Saudi Arabia, King Abdullah.
Anyway, I'll let Noam Chomsky explain what I mean.
The following is an extract from an interview he gave in January 24th
2009.
________________________________________________________
From: http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20090124.htmIn fact,
President Obama just had a press conference, which was quite
interesting in that respect. He praised the parabolic peace
initiative, the Saudi initiative endorsed by the Arab League, and said
it had constructive elements. It called for the normalization of
relation with Israel, and he called on the Arab states to proceed with
those "constructive elements," namely the normalization of relations.
But that is a gross falsification of the Arab League initiative. The
Arab League initiative called for accepting a two-state settlement on
the international border, which has been a long-standing international
consensus and said if that can be achieved then Arab states can
normalize relations with Israel.
Well, Obama skipped the first part, the crucial part, the core of the
resolution, because that imposes an obligation on the United States.
The United States has stood alone for over thirty years in blocking
this international consensus, by now it has totally isolated the US
and Israel.
Europe and now a lot of other countries have accepted it. Hamas has
accepted it for years, the Palestinian Authority of course, the Arab
League now for many years [have accepted it]. The US and Israel block
it, not just in words, but they are blocking it in actions constantly,
(this is) happening every day in the occupied territories and also in
the siege of Gaza and other atrocities.
_________________________________________________
Then, there was Obama's Cairo speech last June. He had the temerity
to talk about the importance of de-nuclearization of the Middle East
region, particularly chastizing Iran, whose leaders he fears want to
acquire nuclear weapons, but omitted to mention that Israel is, at
present, the only state in the region that has nukes. What balls!!!
For both Democrats and Republicans, they value Israel as a US military
base in the Middle East region. Israel is a platform for the US to
project (military) power and influence in this oil producing region.
Peace be damned. Human rights? Forget it.
Paul Carr
闻:jvnok5p9l0l3thphh...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:50:35 +0800, "Paul Carr"
> <worldp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The Initial air assault was timed "when children were returning from school
>>and crowds were milling in the streets of densely populated Gaza City. It
>>took only a few minutes to kill over 200 people and wound 700".
>
> they COULD have easily killed thousands in that time.
It doesn't matter if the death toll was hundreds or thousands. It's
still a war crime.
As I understand it, there was a ceasefire agreement between Hamas and
Israel in June 2008. After that date until November 4th, there were
virtually no Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. But on November 4th, the
day of the US Presidential election, there was an Israeli raid into
Gaza which killed 6 Palestinians. This led to retaliatory Hamas
rocket attacks. As a result of that retaliation, Israel tightened its
blockade on the Gaza strip even further.
From: http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20090119.htm
" According to Sara Roy, the leading academic specialist on Gaza, "On
Nov. 5, Israel sealed all crossing points into Gaza, vastly reducing
and at times denying food supplies, medicines, fuel, cooking gas, and
parts for water and sanitation systems" "During November, an average
of 4.6 trucks of food per day entered Gaza from Israel compared with
an average of 123 trucks per day in October. Spare parts for the
repair and maintenance of water-related equipment have been denied
entry for over a year. The World Health Organization just reported
that half of Gaza's ambulances are now out of order""
Shortly before the Israeli invasion of the Gaza strip on December 27th
2009, Hamas chief, Khaled Meshal, made a peace offering, calling for a
cessation of aggression, the opening of border crossings for much
needed supplies and a return to the situation in 2005 before the
elections regarding the Rafah border crossing which would be managed
jointly by Egypt, the European Union, the Palestinian Authority
presidency and Hamas. This offer was ignored by Israel. Israel's
invasion of the Gaza strip commenced shortly afterwards.
mothed out
> "Harry Merrick" <homes...@hotmail.com>
> ??????:7r0ap0Fsr...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Paul Carr wrote:
> >> "Harry Merrick" <homes...@hotmail.com>
> >> ??????:7qv38oFd2...@mid.individual.net...
> >>> Paul Carr wrote:
> >>>> "Harry Merrick" <homes...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> ??????:7qodtlFev...@mid.individual.net...
> >>>>> Paul Carr wrote:
> >>>>>> "Harry Merrick" <homes...@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>> ??????:7qhd9fFmf...@mid.individual.net...
> >>>>>>> Doc Martian wrote:
> >>>>>>>> You might be able to benefit yourselves towards statehood by
> >>>>>>>> nabbing some Israeli war criminals and forking them over to UK
> >>>>>>>> authorities. After all, the UK has always had a very 'one hand
> >>>>>>>> washes the other' attitude towards statehood.
>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>>>>> Doc
>
> >>>>>>> Hello Doc, what can you be at? Israeli war criminals eh? And what
> >>>>>>> about the Palistinian war criminals? At least the Jews in Israel
> >>>>>>> do not employ terror tactics perpetrated by terror groups such as
> >>>>>>> Hamas!!
>
> >>>>>> 1400 Palestinians were killed during last January's 3 week Israeli
> >>>>>> offensive in Gaza as opposed to 13 Israelis killed. If that isn't
> >>>>>> state-sponsored terrorism, I don't know what is.
>
>
> >>>>> And why, one wonders? Is it not fact that for years Hamas has
> >>>>> persisted in attacking Israel, firing rockets into Israeli
> >>>>> territory on a daily basis, despite and in defiance of world
> >>>>> attempts to make them stop? Is it not fact that Hamas are using
> >>>>> tunnels which they dug in the sand in order to smuggle arms and
> >>>>> ammo into Gaza? Is it not fact that these reasons amongst many are
> >>>>> why Israel had no choice but to bombard Gaza in order to try to
> >>>>> stop all this and defend their citizens? Is it not fact that Hamas
> >>>>> deliberately used the people and children of Gaza to shelter
> >>>>> behind, deliberately to foster such emotive drivel as you are
> >>>>> perpetrating? Oh come ON!! Your thought processes are exactly
> >>>>> those of supporters of the PIRA and their bombing attacks. They
> >>>>> don't and won't work! --
> >>>>> Harry Merrick.
>
> >>>> 1,434 people were killed during during Israel's 22-day offensive in
> >>>> the Hamas-ruled Gaza strip, including 960 civilians. Of those 960
> >>>> civilians, 288 children and 121 women were killed in the bombing and
> >>>> shelling.
Rumour has it that you can't get elected president in the U.S. without
the support of the Zionist lobby.
They are one of the best organised poltical lobby groups in the
world.
You need money and influence in various quarters if you want to win an
election in the U.S.
If it's true that your election chances are shagged without their
support, what hope of a sustained policy of reigning in various
completely damaging aspects of Israeli policy, such as, almost
unbelievably, STILL BUILDING NEW SETTLEMENTS IN THE OCCUPIED
TERRITORIES.
Seems to me there are lots of factors which are out of Israel's
control, such as the shit stirring that regimes like Iran are going to
keep doing in supporting armed groups against Israel (those dodgey
regimes such as Iran and Syria will never really want peace, so long
as they can point to the big bad Israel, it will distract from the
shite they are doing in their own countries)
But the point is, Israel COULD stop the incursions, it's something
they do have power over, it's would be a sign of good faith and a
readiness to move to a solution.
So long as they fail to do what they can, it stands out like a fog
horn declaring that their heart isn't in it and they don't realise the
urgency that everyone should do what they can toward this project of
peace.
I don't think they realise how important this is. The U.S. is not
going to be the world's dominant power for ever. They are nothing
without U.S. support, worth billions, on their military budget.
They are sleep walking towards disaster.
Paul Carr
> On Jan 12, 8:47 pm, Paul Carr <paulcarr1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Harry Merrick" <homes...@hotmail.com>
>> ??????:7r0ap0Fsr...@mid.individual.net...
>>> Paul Carr wrote:
>>>> "Harry Merrick" <homes...@hotmail.com>
>>>> ??????:7qv38oFd2...@mid.individual.net...
<snip>
>>>>> Bullshit! Your problem is that you believe everything you are
>>>>> told by Hamas! All the Palestinians and Hamas have to do is stop
>>>>> attacking Israel all the time. The PIRA used exactly the same
>>>>> tactics in Northern Ireland as Hamas is doing in Gaza. That too
>>>>> caused thousands to die including children.
>>
>>>> I didn't write that Hamas was killing children. I wrote that the
>>>> Israeli armed forces killed children.
>>
>>> Ah, and you think I wasn't fully aware what you wrote? Your usual
>>> obfuscations and biased opinions I see!!
>>
>> In my opinion, there would be peace within a few weeks if the US were
>> to stop giving unconditional support for Israel and, instead, re-join
>> the rest of the world in supporting the international consensus,
>
> Rumour has it that you can't get elected president in the U.S. without
> the support of the Zionist lobby.
> They are one of the best organised poltical lobby groups in the
> world.
> You need money and influence in various quarters if you want to win an
> election in the U.S.
tdny posted a link on youtube a few months back to a great Dutch
documentary on the overarching power of the Israeli lobby on the US
Congress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98
Well worth the watch. I think I'll watch it again actually. Very
educational.
> If it's true that your election chances are shagged without their
> support, what hope of a sustained policy of reigning in various
> completely damaging aspects of Israeli policy,
It's worse than that. Unconditional support for the most militant of
Israeli policies by the US congress is undermining US foreign policy
around the world and its credibility. This is subsequently
undermining global peace and stability.
>such as, almost
> unbelievably, STILL BUILDING NEW SETTLEMENTS IN THE OCCUPIED
> TERRITORIES.
> Seems to me there are lots of factors which are out of Israel's
> control, such as the shit stirring that regimes like Iran are going to
> keep doing in supporting armed groups against Israel
The question has to be asked by the Israeli government. "Why are they
stirring shit?". The Israeli government appears not to be interested
in answering this question. Why should they? They have Big Brother
(i.e. the USA) watching over them, underwriting their most
unreasonable of policies, particularly foreign policies.
> (those dodgey
> regimes such as Iran and Syria will never really want peace, so long
> as they can point to the big bad Israel, it will distract from the
> shite they are doing in their own countries)
If you mean this ironically, then fine. If you meant the above as a
serious statement, then I don't agree with you.
> But the point is, Israel COULD stop the incursions, it's something
> they do have power over, it's would be a sign of good faith and a
> readiness to move to a solution.
> So long as they fail to do what they can, it stands out like a fog
> horn declaring that their heart isn't in it and they don't realise the
> urgency that everyone should do what they can toward this project of
> peace.
> I don't think they realise how important this is. The U.S. is not
> going to be the world's dominant power for ever. They are nothing
> without U.S. support, worth billions, on their military budget.
> They are sleep walking towards disaster.
The US could say to Israel tomorrow, "The game is up. Make the peace
with Hamas and the Palestinians". The conflict would then be over.
The US did that before in relation to Indonesia and East Timor. In
the late 1990s (1999 I think), when the Indonesian army was committing
atrocities in East Timor, the US government finally said, "Enough is
enough. We're giving you no more unconditional military aid to
backroll your massacres of innocent civilians. Leave East Timor". And
the Indonesians left.
Paul Carr
"The Other Guy" <knews...@gmail.com>
??????:oiutk5den80ugpp81...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:19:48 -0800 (PST), Paul Carr
> <paulca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>As I understand it,
>
> You understand it wrong,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire
"The 2008 Israel-Hamas ceasefire was a twenty six week Egyptian-brokered
truce between Hamas and Israel which started on June 19, 2008 and lasted
until December 19, 2008".
Here's a bar chart showing the heavy reduction of mortar and rocket attacks
on Israel after the truce was agreed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rock_mort_gaza_2008.JPG
In November and December, things started to deteriorate sharply because
Israel explicitly broke the terms of the ceasefire with a raid on Gaza on
November 4th (the day of the US Presidential election), killing 6 Hamas
members.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire
"On 4 November 2008, the Israeli military raided a tunnel which Hamas had
dug between Gaza and Israel. The IDF stated that it was intended for the
capture of Israeli soldiers and that it intended to continue with the truce,
calling the raid a "pinpoint operation". Hamas and, according to an
allegation by the The Huffington Post, one IDF source maintained that it was
for defensive purposes. As six members of Hamas were killed, it considered
this attack a "massive breach of the truce". Rocket attacks towards Israeli
cities around Gaza increased sharply in November 2008, approaching the
pre-truce levels. According to a 17 November article in The Telegraph,
"since violence flared on Nov 5, Israeli forces and militants, some of them
from Hamas, have engaged in almost daily tit-for-tat exchanges."
Paul Carr
??????:sf5vk5lisa1i1i00t...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:13:33 +0800, "Paul Carr"
> <worldp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire
>
> That link PROVES your stupidity.
How so?
You appeared to be implying before that there is a difference between
the Israeli "Defence" forces killing 100s instead of 1000s during
their Gaza strip attack from December 27th 2008 to January 18th 2009.
That's like saying a man who beats his wife only once a week instead
of every day is a benevolent Patriarch.
Kelpie
> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:13:33 +0800, "Paul Carr"
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire
>
> That link PROVES your stupidity.
Oh for fuck sake, Paul Carr is not stupid. If you are going to throw
the shit, find some that doesn't stick to your hand.
Seamus McDermott
>
> SO fucking what??
>
> DON'T isolate one week, take YEARS worth of data, THEN come back and see
> if you can justify your view.
That would be YOUR job, clueless one.