Eire, Eireann, Erin

Tom C

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Feb 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/25/98

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What is the difference between Eire, Eireann, hEriann, and Erin?
are they different forms of the same word?
I would appreciate any help. Please post here.

Thanks, Tom

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Séamas Ó Brógáin

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Feb 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/25/98

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"Tom C" (aa...@flash.net) wrote:

"What is the difference between Eire, Eireann, hEriann, and Erin? ..."

Éire was the Irish name for Ireland up to a couple of hundred years ago,
but it continued in use in poetry and in literature until recent times.

In the meantime an inflected form, Éirinn (no doubt originally a locative
or dative form), became the normal name for Ireland in Irish, which it
still is.

Perhaps because of the survival of the older form in literary usage, or an
awareness that the ordinary name, Éirinn, was originally an inflected
form, dictionaries continued to give Éire, rather than Éirinn, as the name
of Ireland.

The Constitution of Ireland (1937) formally declares Éire to be the name
of the country. Most English-speakers in Ireland are under the impression
that Éire is simply the Irish name for Ireland, and this is what they are
taught at school; in fact the Irish name for Ireland is Éirinn.

Éireann is the genitive (i.e. possessive) case of Éire and Éirinn. The
form with the definit article---na hÉireann---occurs when a name is based
on a definite (rather than indefinite) noun.

Séamas Ó Brógáin

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erin noel

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98

to Tom C

On 25 Feb 1998, Tom C wrote:

> Date: 25 Feb 1998 00:47:45 GMT
> From: Tom C <aa5e...@flash.net>
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.irish
> Subject: Eire, Eireann, Erin

>
>
> What is the difference between Eire, Eireann, hEriann, and Erin?

> are they different forms of the same word?
> I would appreciate any help. Please post here.
>
> Thanks, Tom
>
>
>
>
>

yes they are all forms of the same name originating with the beloved
celtic goddess eriu. you can find this in any noteworthy celtic mythology
book

Padraig Breathnach

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Mar 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/13/98

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Séamas Ó Brógáin wrote:
>
> Éire was the Irish name for Ireland up to a couple of hundred years ago,
> but it continued in use in poetry and in literature until recent times.
>
> In the meantime an inflected form, Éirinn (no doubt originally a locative
> or dative form), became the normal name for Ireland in Irish, which it
> still is.

Not so. It is the dative case and nothing else. The "normal" name is Éire.

>
> Perhaps because of the survival of the older form in literary usage, or
an
> awareness that the ordinary name, Éirinn, was originally an inflected
> form, dictionaries continued to give Éire, rather than Éirinn, as the
name
> of Ireland.

The dictionaries are correct!

>
> The Constitution of Ireland (1937) formally declares Éire to be the name
> of the country. Most English-speakers in Ireland are under the impression
> that Éire is simply the Irish name for Ireland, and this is what they are
> taught at school; in fact the Irish name for Ireland is Éirinn.

You even claim that the constitution is wrong! Who is to tell us the name
of the country or the state? You disagree with the dictionaries, the
constitution, and "most English-speakers in Ireland" (and just about all
the population speak English other than those who have not yet learned to
speak at all). I'll stay with the majority and with the scholars.

PB

Séamas Ó Brógáin

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Mar 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/15/98

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Pádraig Breathnach wrote:

"Not so. It [Éirinn] is the dative case and nothing else. The 'normal'
name is Éire ... The dictionaries are correct! ... You even claim that the

constitution is wrong! Who is to tell us the name of the country or the
state?"

The people who _speak_ the language, of course. Ask them! If you don't
know any native speakers, have a look at

(a) _An Teanga Bheo: Corca Dhuibhne_ (Linguistics Institute of
Ireland), p. 73

(b) _Modern Irish_ by Mícheál Ó Siadhail (Cambridge University Press),
p. 136.

If you listened to "Leagan Cainte" on Raidió na Gaeltachta you would have
heard a discussion recently on this question, on which the panel (all
native speakers, from all dialects) agreed that Éirinn is the normal name
of the country and Éire they regard as a political construct (just as it
is in English usage).

These are all descriptions of the living language. The dictionaries should
copy them, not the other way around. It is for political reasons (I
presume) that they didn't in this case. The Constitution can call the
_state_ anything it likes (through ignorance in this case), but the people
who speak the language decide the name of their country.

You can stay with the "majority" (i.e. of English-speakers) if you like.
But they're wrong. And so are you.