Family
DocAay
comparative importance of family between 'here' and 'there'.
My family has always been spread out over the country, with my maternal
grandparent in Texas and my paternals on the East Coast, with us stuck in
the middle. It took two to three days to drive any of the distances and we
were always too poor to fly. That meant that I grew up not knowing any of
my cousins or grandparents, aunts or uncles. Even now, my birth family is
scattered over the continent. I hadn't seen one of my brothers for years
until our mother's death a couple of years ago.
The only real 'center' or 'heart' of the family is my younger sister. She's
the one all of us call or write to about family questions.
I'm not sure that this aspect of American society is a good one. I would
have liked to have known my grandparents better and to have had stories like
Si's to tell.
I get the feeling that Irish families tend to be much more closely knit.
Perhaps it's the geographical distance that makes the difference. Of course
I realize that closeness in miles does not always make for emotional
closeness. I know about some horrible feuds with no one talking to anyone
else, but at least you're close enough to know that the other one knows
you're not talking to them.
Doc
kateh
>(snip)
> I get the feeling that Irish families tend to be much more closely knit.
> Perhaps it's the geographical distance that makes the difference. Of
course
> I realize that closeness in miles does not always make for emotional
> closeness. I know about some horrible feuds with no one talking to anyone
> else, but at least you're close enough to know that the other one knows
> you're not talking to them.
We're the same way. It's not like we don't like each other, or are angry
aboust something. But I have brothers and sisters and they *all* act like I
don't exist.......of course they act like they don't exist, too.........so I
don't take it personally.
A few years ago I got tired of feeling like an only child (in a big family)
and sent them all a calendar for Christmas.....on it was everyone in the
whole family's (including in-laws/outlaws/husbands/wives and step-children)
phone numbers, addresses and birthday/anniversary dates. :)
I send them one every Christmas now...
Kate(and wonder if they got them)H :)
Martin Harran
"DocAay" <****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:408e8ea1$0$17254$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
> I get the feeling that Irish families tend to be much more closely knit.
In my experience, not that close on a day-to day basis but certainly an
underlying family feeling.
I belong to a VERY large family - 13 in immediate family, 60 odd nieces and
nephews! There's only 2 or 3 that I normally keep in contact with on a
regular basis, not due to any family feuds or anything like that, just too
many of us to do it on a regular basis. Normally we only all get together at
weddings and funerals.
When there is problems in the family, however, there is a tremendous
rallying together. As most of you know, we have just gone through the
traumatic experience of my oldest brother's wife (Attracta Harron) being
murdered. The support that my brother and his children received from both
the immediate and extended family were a great help to them during four
months of unimaginable hell.
So strong was the family thing, that my youngest brother and his wife who
came from Sri Lanka for the funeral, brought their three teenage boys with
them, as they wanted them to "learn about family".
> Perhaps it's the geographical distance that makes the difference.
I think it's more than that, my experience of English families, for example,
is that there isn't the same closeness as in Ireland yet the geographical
distances are similar.
I suspect that it's a cultural - possibly religious - thing. I remember
having an interesting discussion on this with an Indonesian girl with an
Indonesian mother and English father; although she had grown up in England,
she knew more about her realtives in Indonesia than those in England.
>Of course
> I realize that closeness in miles does not always make for emotional
> closeness.
Yes, and big families are not necessarily happy families.
Bóliath
>
> (Ger, please correct my spelling) As the saying goes:
>
> Dhortigh foil foil ach ni feicfidh foil foil a dhurtu.
^^^
> (Blood will hurt blood but blood won't watch blood being hurt.)
>
Bóliath
>
> I get the feeling that Irish families tend to be much more closely knit.
> Perhaps it's the geographical distance that makes the difference. Of course
> I realize that closeness in miles does not always make for emotional
> closeness. I know about some horrible feuds with no one talking to anyone
> else, but at least you're close enough to know that the other one knows
> you're not talking to them.
Some are, some aren't. In general though I do think that Irish families
are more involved with each other than families in the US. My own is all
up in each others faces and at one time we were spread over 3
continents. We're just on 2 now, but still I can recite any family
members phone number by heart and vice versa. It's nice, comforting and
oh so terribly painful when you are returning to the US or they've been
here and are going back, when something happens, a death, a birth, even
a special birthday or some other occasion it is just too cruel for words
to be somewhere else. I honestly feel blessed with my family, I would
choose them to hang out with over any one else.
Now that all sounds ideal and all that but it is only in this generation
and only extends to my parents and siblings. I know next to nothing
about my cousins, had rare contact with aunts and uncles and
grandparents were things that other people had. One grandmother who
lived in the same town as me didn't know which one I was, she lived in
such twisted bitterness that she couldn't enjoy her own sons family. She
carried a grudge to her grave and refused to speak to her own sister who
lived around the corner over something that happened in 1954. My other
grandmother seems to have been a sweet old thing but as I saw her once a
year, if that, and she asked me my name each time it's hard to say. That
grandfather also seems to have been sweet but other than the huge size
of his hands I don't remember much. My Dads family came from the town
and had disagreements over property and debts, my Mums family were from
the country and land was and is an issue, who got what when and why can
be very divisive. It amazes me that my parents could come from those
backgrounds and rear us to believe that there is nobody as important as
your family, nobody who will love you as much (or hate you as much) and
beyond the front door very few people matter as much.
(Ger, please correct my spelling) As the saying goes:
Dhortigh foil foil and ni feicfidh foil foil a dhurtu.
kateh
> I honestly feel blessed with my family, I would
> choose them to hang out with over any one else.
Yer a lucky woman. I love my family, they're a crazy bunch and always good
for a laugh....but they really do put the "fun" in dysfunctional.
KateH
Terry McT
<****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote:
My family is scattered from the upper mid-west, across the Rust Belt,
down to Maryland. My moving back from Louisiana cut the distance a
good bit. We've remained close, fortunately. It's a lot easier now
that most everyone has email. I had a new professional publication
came out recently and I sent the link for the pdf version to my mother.
Within minutes, that email was out to a whole bunch of relatives of
various kinds, long time friends, people I don't know but Mom does, and
even a few folks Mom only sort of knows. The priest at my parent's
parish now has a copy and has blessed my efforts. I think it may be
the only coastal habitat restoration manual to have been vetted by a
parish priest. This all is mainly my parents, sister and
brother-in-law, and Mom's side of the family. They stay close,
annoying the heck out of each other and loving each other to bits.
Dad's side of the family doesn't have that same thing going for them,
in part because he was an only child I think. Dad has cousins living
here in the DC area that I've never met, let alone their kids. There
were some differences years ago and people just grew apart. It's just
a different group of people with a different way of interacting.
I could make one phone call for assistance and I'd have more help and
advice coming my way than I could handle. If needed, there'd also be
at least three car loads of folks coming my way: one from Michigan
(they might actually fly if time was tight), one or more from
Pennsylvania, and one from another part of the DC area. They wouldn't
have to understand completely what was wrong with me or was upsetting
me, but they'd have my back and be willing to help or protect me as
needed. I'd do the same for them.
Terry
Terry McT
<boliat...@yahooNOSPAM.com> wrote:
> DocAay wrote:
> >
[snipped]
> (Ger, please correct my spelling) As the saying goes:
>
> Dhortigh foil foil and ni feicfidh foil foil a dhurtu.
>
> (Blood will hurt blood but blood won't watch blood being hurt.)
Ain't that the absolute truth. The one way to end a squabble in my
family is to have someone from outside the family annoy one of us. The
whole bunch of us will turn and fight as a unit.
Terry
DocAay
"Terry McT" <mcti...@earthlink.net.takeout> wrote in message
news:270420042049146723%mcti...@earthlink.net.takeout...
> They wouldn't
> have to understand completely what was wrong with me or was upsetting
> me, but they'd have my back and be willing to help or protect me as
> needed. I'd do the same for them.
>
> Terry
That's lovely, Terry. You are very lucky.
doc
Terry McT
<***docaye***@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes, they're a colorful bunch but I love them.
Last spring, we were up in the mountains of Pennsylvania in a tiny coal
mining town for a family wedding. My Dad got sick at the reception*.
I saw the problem first and alerted my cousin who is the town mayor and
the emergency medical technician. He called over his sister who is an
emergency room nurse in the nearest reasonable sized city. They took
care of Dad, I called 911 (which was interesting because I only vaguely
knew the directions to this church hall because it was off on a
backroad), cousins arranged for rides to the local miners' hospital,
other cousins took care of Mom, other cousins took care of the
grandbabies, and then a caravan of us followed the ambulance to the
miner's hospital. My cousin, the mayor/EMT entered the ER first and
announced that this was a special case an would be handled quickly.
His girlfriend, the ER supervisor took over the case. My other cousin
(don't worry about keeping track of the cousins, there are a lot of
them) who is a medical technican in a big city when down to the lab to
renew some friendships and to take over. The cousins were like the
medical version of the military decending. They secured control over
all relevant departments and speeded their Uncle's
processing/treatment/etc. It was an amazing sight to behold.
Fortunately, none of this interferred with the quality of treatment
other patients received. We were in and out of the ER within an hour.
Terry
*This is true. A deer died and fell into the town water supply,
tainting it. We had to drink boiled water. Dad was worried that there
wasn't enough bottled water for the grandbabies so he was secretly
skipping his drinks to make sure they had enough. Mind you, there's a
grocery and a convenience store stocked to the gills with bottled water
due to the on-going problem, but a grandpaw does look out for his grand
daughters. Anyway, his illness has just related to dehydration and not
anything more serious, thank goodness.
DocAay
> Terry
>
>
>
> *This is true. A deer died and fell into the town water supply,
> tainting it. We had to drink boiled water. Dad was worried that there
> wasn't enough bottled water for the grandbabies so he was secretly
> skipping his drinks to make sure they had enough. Mind you, there's a
> grocery and a convenience store stocked to the gills with bottled water
> due to the on-going problem, but a grandpaw does look out for his grand
> daughters. Anyway, his illness has just related to dehydration and not
> anything more serious, thank goodness.
There's the reason he got such good treatment. An honorable family with an
honorable patriarch. Salud.
Doc
Cat
"DocAay" <****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:408f304b$0$17257$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
An interesting topic, families.. and a fraught one by all accounts.
I too am blessed with a tightly knitted tribe whom I only see once a year.
A family internet community we set up allows us to keep up with news and
photos of new babies and other events - for the diasporaed among you, I
recommend it!
But I am a strong believer that family dynamics are more down to teh
individuals concerned than to the country or the culture. I am close to a
number of Irish families, all large. Some are warm, and supportive come
hell or high water of each member, some are supportive when tough times
come, but as competitive as hell in every day life - to the point of making
Christmas dinners about as healthy as a walk though a minefield - some are
only talking to one-another through one poor sod who is destroyed by the
whole thing, and others are so far down the scale of abusiveness they can
only be described as hell on earth. I am lucky to be only talking about the
latter from an article I read over the week end, in one of the Sunday
papers' supplement, rather than personal experience. The appalling story of
a (now mature) old girl, abused and raped by her father and brother for
years, who gave birth to a baby at 11 years of age, only to have it killed
by her mother in front of her, her father and grand mother. The story goes
on atrociously, I spare you the details. Suffice it to say that for that
Irish large(ish) family, there was no comfort or closeness, just abuse and
cruelty.
So, I take the view that families are funny collective creatures, which
depend hugely on the collection of individuals which make them up.
--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...
DocAay
"Cat" <cath...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6o9oo$vf9$1...@kermit.esat.net...
> So, I take the view that families are funny collective creatures, which
> depend hugely on the collection of individuals which make them up.
>
> --
> Cat(h)
> The world swirls...
>
>
Absolutely true. I would like to know, however, one goes about getting
adopted by Terry McT's family.
doc
kateh
> So, I take the view that families are funny collective creatures, which
> depend hugely on the collection of individuals which make them up.
They are funny things and whenever I despair that mine is too odd to handle
.....they do something weird and wonderful.
I've tried the family internet thing BTW (for years), the mammy's the only
one who seems to be able to figure out her email. My little sis........I've
been after her for years to get an email account, and yesterday she gave me
her 10 year old daughter's AOL address. :)
Kate(still working on her)H :)
MMcC
wrote:
>
>
>An interesting topic, families.. and a fraught one by all accounts.
>I too am blessed with a tightly knitted tribe whom I only see once a year.
>A family internet community we set up allows us to keep up with news and
>photos of new babies and other events - for the diasporaed among you, I
>recommend it!
>But I am a strong believer that family dynamics are more down to teh
>individuals concerned than to the country or the culture. I am close to a
>number of Irish families, all large. Some are warm, and supportive come
>hell or high water of each member, some are supportive when tough times
>come, but as competitive as hell in every day life - to the point of making
>Christmas dinners about as healthy as a walk though a minefield - some are
>only talking to one-another through one poor sod who is destroyed by the
>whole thing, and others are so far down the scale of abusiveness they can
>only be described as hell on earth. I am lucky to be only talking about the
>latter from an article I read over the week end, in one of the Sunday
>papers' supplement, rather than personal experience. The appalling story of
>a (now mature) old girl, abused and raped by her father and brother for
>years, who gave birth to a baby at 11 years of age, only to have it killed
>by her mother in front of her, her father and grand mother. The story goes
>on atrociously, I spare you the details. Suffice it to say that for that
>Irish large(ish) family, there was no comfort or closeness, just abuse and
>cruelty.
>So, I take the view that families are funny collective creatures, which
>depend hugely on the collection of individuals which make them up.
Irish families have more than their share of skeletons in the closet,
especially up until not too long ago when Irish society was dominated
by conservative social mores and esp the church. The last example you
gave above is probably a bit extreme, but the incidences of abuse,
incest, rape and how unmarried pregnant teenage mothers were treated
are all too common.
You don't have to read the Sunday newspapers to find out about them
either. Dig beneath the surface of many of the supposedly tight knit
supportive families and you could be suprised what you might find that
happened in the past, much of it appaling by today's standards. A lot
of stuff was swept under the rug. I know of plenty of stories of
pregnant young girls being shipped off to the nuns in England where
their babies (the pregnancies were often the result of rape or incest)
were taken from them and put in orphanages or given up for adoption.
Many of these girls were then forced into the nuns themselves or into
Magdeline Laundry type situations. This stuff wasn't talked about
openly, but people knew about it.
Granted, this was more in the generation before mine, and my extended
family wasn't immune to it. But even in my generation there were some
horrid stories, in the early 80's I can remember the case of a 15
year-old girl dying in childbirth, all alone, in the middle of a field
in Longford on a cold Feburary night. She had hidden her pregnancy
from her family.
I'd like to think we have progressed to the point where we have left
that kinid of shit behind us.
Bóliath
>
> in the early 80's I can remember the case of a 15
> year-old girl dying in childbirth, all alone, in the middle of a field
> in Longford on a cold Feburary night. She had hidden her pregnancy
> from her family.
Anne Lovett, she went to the grotto thinking that Mary would help her. I
was the same age as her or just a bit younger and that event shaped my
opinions on many many things. That poor girl, even now 20 years later it
haunts me.
kateh
I can see why........that's very sad.
KateH
Terry McT
<****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you. We actually do adopt people rather easily, sort of like the
Mafia. Rather than having to "whack" someone, you'll end up having to
eat something made from one of of the family's old Slovak recipies.
You might reconsider. Ha-loosh-ki (I'm spelling phonetically because
I've never seen this written down) is cabbage sliced small mixed with
mini dumplings and then all coated in melted butter. Tasty, but the
gastric equivalent of eating lightning. As in, eat it sitting in a
chair very close to the ladies room. On the other hand, there's poppy
seed roll! I could eat this until I was barely sensible, then I'd have
to roll around in some, too. Some people lacking in taste (including a
certain maternal parental unit) prefer nut roll over the poppy seed
roll, but they're just wrong!
I think things like ha-loosh-ki and coo-chin-yin-a (whole boiled and
jellied pigs feet, very tasty actually) are why I didn't even bat an
eye when those Aleut ladies served me roasted harbor seal and boiled
chiton. Yeah, just TRY to gross me out.
Terry
Terry McT
<****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you. I'm rather fond of him. I watch him a bit closer now,
though.
Terry
RogueXV
"Terry McT" <mcti...@earthlink.net.takeout> wrote in message
Your initiation process should also include picking various berries from a
busy highway median. That's sure to keep the deadwood to a minimum.
Bóliath
It was tragic, Nell McCafferty (Irelands celebrity feminist) did a nice
tribute to her but I can't find it online.
Whitewolf
wrote:
Why didn't she seek proper assistance?
Ray
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Everyone, Republican or otherwise has their own
particular part to play. No part is too great or too
small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Bobby Sands (1954-1981), on hunger strike in 1981
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Terry McT
<Rog...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Terry McT" <mcti...@earthlink.net.takeout> wrote in message
> news:280420041945418995%mcti...@earthlink.net.takeout...
> > In article <408fb84d$0$17256$a186...@newsreader.visi.com>, DocAay
> > <****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Cat" <cath...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c6o9oo$vf9$1...@kermit.esat.net...
> > > > So, I take the view that families are funny collective creatures,
> which
> > > > depend hugely on the collection of individuals which make them up.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Absolutely true. I would like to know, however, one goes about getting
> > > adopted by Terry McT's family.
> > >
> >
> > Thank you. We actually do adopt people rather easily, sort of like the
> > Mafia. Rather than having to "whack" someone, you'll end up having to
> > eat something made from one of of the family's old Slovak recipies.
> > You might reconsider. Ha-loosh-ki (I'm spelling phonetically because
> > I've never seen this written down) is cabbage sliced small mixed with
> > mini dumplings and then all coated in melted butter. Tasty, but the
> > gastric equivalent of eating lightning. As in, eat it sitting in a
> > chair very close to the ladies room. On the other hand, there's poppy
> > seed roll! I could eat this until I was barely sensible, then I'd have
> > to roll around in some, too. Some people lacking in taste (including a
> > certain maternal parental unit) prefer nut roll over the poppy seed
> > roll, but they're just wrong!
> >
> > I think things like ha-loosh-ki and coo-chin-yin-a (whole boiled and
> > jellied pigs feet, very tasty actually) are why I didn't even bat an
> > eye when those Aleut ladies served me roasted harbor seal and boiled
> > chiton. Yeah, just TRY to gross me out.
>
> Your initiation process should also include picking various berries from a
> busy highway median. That's sure to keep the deadwood to a minimum.
Nuts from the busy highway median. The berries were down in the
bottomland swamp. Good point, though.
Terry
Alliekatt
> I get the feeling that Irish families tend to be much more closely knit.
> Perhaps it's the geographical distance that makes the difference. Of
course
> I realize that closeness in miles does not always make for emotional
> closeness. I know about some horrible feuds with no one talking to anyone
> else, but at least you're close enough to know that the other one knows
> you're not talking to them.
Sometimes being far away from your family is a GOOD thing. And sometimes
being up close with them is NOT.
My so called paternal family is so embroiled in estates that it is
impossible to share thing 1 without it being stored away as potential ammo
for emotional blackmail. My maternal family is scattered between Mass and
FL and although much more tolerable, also have their own lives. We exchange
cards at holidays and otherwise, my business is my own. I stay in good
loving contact with immediate family and that's it.
As for my husband's family, in Derry, they all live in 3 council homes
within one block of each other (in a grotty, gang-infested place laughably
called an "estate", since in my frame of reference estates are supposed to
have lots of trees, acreage, and possibly a manor-like home). What do they
do? Dad's a raving lunatic who lost his work due to DUI over twenty years
ago, Mom's in charge of everything but mysteriously has never worked a day
in her life, and she STILL let a raving lunatic father 10 kids on her now
ranging in age from 14 to 36, most over 21. Due to some intolerably
backward idealistic attitude about love and marriage that is now very long
dead.
None of the kids have driving licenses. None of them have gone to college.
All of them except three live in the council homes and two of those three
live within a mile of the "estate". None of them are married. Four of the
five daughters and two sons are single parents. Their idea of moving up in
the world is getting everyone in working at Sainsbury's (NI's version of
friggin WAL-MART, gag retch puke) because dole is getting harder to collect
except for old raving lunatics. And Mum? She's 60 and looks 75, moves like
she's 40 and when she departs this earth the lot's going to boot dad up the
arse, send him to live in old fart council flats, and spread to the 4
corners of Ireland. Only one is going to the Waterside beacuse she wants to
be more Protestant; the rest are embarrassed by it. And the thing I hate
admitting is, this crap doesn't happen in the Waterside because Protestants
raised with a higher education than Red Hand Luke are far more tolerable
company than a bunch of gibbering, breeding, wifebeating council flat
idiots. Down in the Republic people have better schooling and aren't
cultured to be intolerably stupid and stubborn, so my prejudice stops at the
border.
And the only reason why they're the only Prods on a Catholic block to live
through 25 years without a single stone put through the window is because,
I'm sure, Sinn Fein feels massive pity for them. Five grandchildren out of
wedlock, 9 adult children of age but 8 of them still are dependent on the
family for housing and childcare, dad's a lunatic, and none of them except
for ONE, I repeat, ONE sister who keeps her life secretive and works in
computer engineering, has the intelligence, people skills, and education to
communicate with me on my level. As for me to them, they took my husband
aside and told him that I'm a loud, demanding, self-righteous, uppity bitch,
(because I can walk out the door myself, take a taxi to the bogside and do
my photographic work) and as for them to me, they're a rabbit warren full of
chatterers without the free will to do anything that requires strong will,
creativity, and the ability to live without paranoia and alcohol crapping up
a good time.
So when it comes to extended famliy, I am of the opinion that the lower the
educational level, the more they need to stick together to survive the bad
habits that low educational level engenders. Sure, they'll be there by her
bedside when Mum kicks off, (which is the only reason why we keep them
round), but I know she'll be flying off into the aethyr dropping an
exhausted body and that squibbering lot like a sack full of dead fish.
After being exposed to them for two weeks of screaming brain-murdering
illogical agony that I would have better enjoyed skipping and renting a car
to go SOUTH to a CIVILIZED country, and take pictures and play music, that
is why I have no fear of dying alone.
Quite often, a close-knit family is a mental institution that requires
cooperation in order to go on temporary furlough. I am a bellwether and a
black sheep and would have been a straight-on candidate for the Magdalen
laundries. To blazes with family. It interferes with my playtime on this
earth. Let culture engender painful obedience to such idealistic
references, and let me fly above them and bother with more interesting
things than spreading DNA and calling it love. If love were DNA it would be
slimy and somewhat caustic.
alliekatt
Wifey
>alliekatt
>
>
>
>Mum had 10 kids and never worked a day in her life?
Talk about being clueless.
Wifey
Alliekatt
"Wifey" <carrid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oc4890dpkut3ml346...@4ax.com...
> >As for my husband's family, in Derry, they all live in 3 council homes
> >within one block of each other (in a grotty, gang-infested place
laughably
> >called an "estate", since in my frame of reference estates are supposed
to
> >have lots of trees, acreage, and possibly a manor-like home). What do
they
> >do? Dad's a raving lunatic who lost his work due to DUI over twenty
years
> >ago, Mom's in charge of everything but mysteriously has never worked a
day
> >in her life, and she STILL let a raving lunatic father 10 kids on her now
> >ranging in age from 14 to 36, most over 21. Due to some intolerably
> >backward idealistic attitude about love and marriage that is now very
long
> >dead.
> >
> >alliekatt
> >
> >
> >
> Mum had 10 kids and never worked a day in her life?
> Talk about being clueless.
OK, let me rephrase that: worked a thankless nonpaying job making more
useless, dependent, unmotivated white people to generate more garbage and
pollution on this earth, and calling it emotionally satisfying work.
Clueless is being surrounded by institutionalized overpopulation and still
brooding a bunch of squallers, instead of having 2.5 for the sheer
observable decency of zero population growth. It's called "desperate
idealistic self-preservation" and it consists of shagging whatever's close
by, while bombs fall and soldiers march. It is the raw source for the sheer
volume of illegitimate dadless muckers crawling round NI these days and
shooting drugs. Catholic and Protestant are only race labels nowadays; if
the words meant religion, it would mean adherence to a tradition of
Christian decency. Now it just means pervert penguins and marching
meatheads. As for the tradition of sinful birth control, they only don't
use it in the North for the sake of making voters and as for the South, it
isn't discussed, except that they're as civilized as Protestants these days.
Si
"Alliekatt" <alley...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[Quality rant snip for brevity]
>...as for the South, it
>isn't discussed, except that they're as civilized as Protestants these days.
>
>
So true. I am even shaving twice a week now.
Si
"Bog snorkler extraordinaire"
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