Holloween: trick or treat
str...@my-deja.com
(31 October) spread to Ireland ? In this custom, children dressed in
costumes visit neighbors who give them treats (usually sweets).
Neighbors who fail to do so are hypothetically subject to "tricks" by
the angered children, but in reality children are far more likely to
move on to accumulate more treats.
This custom is widely depicted in American films (especially "The E.T.)
and because it is so advantageous from children's perspective, the
custom has spread widely.
sue sanchez
st roch dog rescue
"http://www.geocities.com/Baja/4055"
"serving people and dogs of all faiths and none at all"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Bro
<str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7r7m2c$rb4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
> (31 October) spread to Ireland ? In this custom, children dressed in
> costumes visit neighbors who give them treats (usually sweets).
> Neighbors who fail to do so are hypothetically subject to "tricks"
by
> the angered children, but in reality children are far more likely to
> move on to accumulate more treats.
>
> This custom is widely depicted in American films (especially "The
E.T.)
> and because it is so advantageous from children's perspective, the
> custom has spread widely.
>
> sue sanchez
I tempted to cry 'troll' but this wouldn't surprise me from a merkin.
. .
kids rhyming at doors for treats or money at hallowe'en is hardly a
unique american custom. I did it as a kid (in NI), and my parents did
it in the 30's and 40's. I don't know if it goes back any farther but
I imagine it probably does.
bro
hallowe'en is comin on
the goose is geetin fat
wud ya please put a penny
in the aul man's hat
if ya havnae got a penny
a ha'pen'y will do
if ya havnae got a ha'pen'y
god bless you
doesn't sound too merkin to me
The 'god bless you' must have been the 'trick' part . . .
Bro
<str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7r7m2c$rb4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
> (31 October) spread to Ireland ? In this custom, children dressed in
> costumes visit neighbors who give them treats (usually sweets).
> Neighbors who fail to do so are hypothetically subject to "tricks"
by
> the angered children, but in reality children are far more likely to
> move on to accumulate more treats.
>
> This custom is widely depicted in American films (especially "The
E.T.)
> and because it is so advantageous from children's perspective, the
> custom has spread widely.
>
> sue sanchez
>
just asked me dad. his parents did it as kids. around 1910.
bro
Turlough
"Gearóid Mac Cuinneagáin" wrote:
> I wonder if 'stroch' knows where Hallowe'en originated?
'Bout time somebody got around to this point!
Turlough
Danielle Ni Dhighe
>I wonder if 'stroch' knows where Hallowe'en originated?
Good article on this at http://www.imbas.org/samhain.htm
**************************************************************************
Danielle Ni Dhighe * morr...@morrigan.net * http://www.morrigan.net/
"We can't give up dreaming, even if it sounds romantic and obsolete."
- Gioconda Belli
**************************************************************************
Hockersmith
> "Bro" <bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
> ><str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >> Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
> >> (31 October) spread to Ireland ?
>
>
> usual American tendency to "niceify" everything.
>
> I wonder if 'stroch' knows where Hallowe'en originated?
You guys invented all the cool stuff......we just made it fun.
Jack-o-lanterns, trick-or-treat, ghosts and goblins...I thought all that
was Irish?
KateH
Danielle Ni Dhighe
>Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
>(31 October) spread to Ireland?
It's not unique to America, as Halloween customs are derived from the older
customs of Samhain which were celebrated throughout Celtic nations (Ireland,
Scotland, Wales, etc.). For more, read:
Bro
Hockersmith <hock...@internetnw.net> wrote in message
news:rtftur...@corp.supernews.com...
> Gearóid Mac Cuinneagáin <Ger@r.d> wrote ...
> > "Bro" <bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
> > ><str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Holloween
> >
> > >just asked me dad. his parents did it as kids. around 1910.
> >
> > Round our way, we tricked, but I think treating is a symptom of
the
> > usual American tendency to "niceify" everything.
> >
> > I wonder if 'stroch' knows where Hallowe'en originated?
> > Gerard Phaid Bhilly
>
> You guys invented all the cool stuff......we just made it fun.
> Jack-o-lanterns, trick-or-treat, ghosts and goblins...I thought all
that
> was Irish?
Only none of it.
bro
str...@my-deja.com
Turlough <sitti...@groundzero.org> wrote:
>
>
> "Gearóid Mac Cuinneagáin" wrote:
> > I wonder if 'stroch' knows where Hallowe'en originated?
>
questions deals with the particular customs that the 'holiday' is
celebrated with. Generally, the origions of a holiday have rather little
to do with the modern celebration of it. imho.
Hockersmith
> > Jack-o-lanterns, trick-or-treat, ghosts and goblins...I thought all
> that
> > was Irish?
>
> Only none of it.
> bro
Man, Oh man......do I need that "Irish for Idiots" book. Okay Ger!!! Where
*did* Halloween originate, if not in Ireland. Damn...I was SURE that Jack
O'Lantern was an Irish name.
KateH :)
WhiteWolf
>"Bro" <bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>><str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>news:7r7m2c$rb4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>>> Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
>>> (31 October) spread to Ireland ?
>
>>just asked me dad. his parents did it as kids. around 1910.
>
>Round our way, we tricked, but I think treating is a symptom of the
>usual American tendency to "niceify" everything.
>
>I wonder if 'stroch' knows where Hallowe'en originated?
Round our place, for 2 bloody weeks before the event the
kids come round knocking at doors "antin' fur hollowean"? they
would say... Usually I say come back when it's closer to the
thing...
Mind you, come Christmas and there they are again 2 or more
weeks ahead of the event knocking at your door and singing
tunes of "we whish you a merry chrishmas"...
When I was a kid ,we had no trick or treat.. We just did tricks
and that was it...
Ray
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
26 + 6 = 1 United Ireland, Erin go breá!
Email: ra...@iol.ie
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/7652
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gitche Gumee
<bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
>I tempted to cry 'troll' but this wouldn't surprise me from
a merkin.
>.. .
How do you know it's an American? The poster could be of
another nationality.
>kids rhyming at doors for treats or money at hallowe'en is
hardly a
>unique american custom. I did it as a kid (in NI), and my
parents did
>it in the 30's and 40's. I don't know if it goes back any
farther but
>I imagine it probably does.
My parents trick or treated in the 40's in Canada. I asked
my mom whether grandma ever trick or treated as young girl
but she didn't know but she said it wasn't likely since
grandma lived on a farm and the next neighbour was a few
miles away. The farm kids didn't collect candy but they
probably played tricks on their nearest neighbour for a
laugh.
GG
Trick or Treat
Smell my feet
Give me something good to eat! :P
------------
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Madra Dubh
-Conway
SCI literary expert
--
"Go gcreime scata Fomhórach ólta do bhall fearga"
Bro wrote in message <37d76...@einstien.netscapeonline.co.uk>...
Bro
Gitche Gumee <saoirN...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:08f6992b...@usw-ex0108-060.remarq.com...
> In article <37d76...@einstien.netscapeonline.co.uk>, "Bro"
> <bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
>
> >I tempted to cry 'troll' but this wouldn't surprise me from
> a merkin.
> >.. .
>
> How do you know it's an American? The poster could be of
> another nationality.
now you're just being silly.
>
> Trick or Treat
> Smell my feet
> Give me something good to eat! :P
:-P
K. E. Dennis
> <str...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> > Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
> > (31 October) spread to Ireland ?
> [snipped]
>
> kids rhyming at doors for treats or money at hallowe'en is hardly a
> unique american custom. [snipped]
>
> hallowe'en is comin on
> the goose is geetin fat
> wud ya please put a penny
> in the aul man's hat... [snipped]
> doesn't sound too merkin to me
>
> The 'god bless you' must have been the 'trick' part . . .
Did'ya really sing that @ Hallwe'en? Because I grew up singing:
*Christmas* is coming,
the goose is getting fat -
won't you please put a penny
in the old man's hat?...etc.
...complete w/ the ha'penny bit. In NY, no less. My eldest brother had a
coin collection, so that was perfectly comprehensible. OTOH what the fat
goose had to do w/ Christmas was beyond my ken, until I was enlightened (&
horrified) by "A Christmas Carol."
Indeed, that was sung as part as part of the occasional door-to-door
caroling @ Christmas, & we didn't get pennies but only egg nog &/or hot
cider (the innocuous American non-alcoholic version, of course)(tho
ironically, it was often spiked w/ rum) w/ assorted baked goodies.
Sort of similar to Hallowe'en, now that I think of it. Ain't cultural
evolution fascinating?
respectfully submitted (if slightly off-key),
|K. E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu
|My employer is not responsible for my opinions,
|regardless of how sensible they are.
K. E. Dennis
> Did'ya really sing that @ Hallwe'en?
oooops. ^^^^^^^^^
That must've been the 'trick' part. Hallowe'en, that is.
> respectfully submitted (this time w/spell-check),
Bro
Madra Dubh <m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7r9d5i$i3e$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
> "Hallowe'en", Bro?
> -Conway
> SCI literary expert
>
hallow even
all hallow's eve
the evening before All Saint's Day, when satanic forces take their
last opportunity to skit about demanding candy apples with menaces
before the holiest saint's day of the year, when they won't be able to
get to the shops.
bro
I'll forgive the rest of them their poor spelling, being mostly
merkins and not having had a proper education in the english language.
But then you knew that, didn't you?
> >
> >hallowe'en is comin on
> >the goose is geetin fat
> >wud ya please put a penny
O Siadhail
Xbelfast (Tony II)
I'm So Miserable Without You,
It's Like Having You Here
str...@my-deja.com
religion has been dead, or nearly, so for about a 1000 years. "Trick
or treating", the American custom of children receiving sweets from
neighbors, is only about 50 years old. There is a slight gap of ----
about 950 years.
In article <37d7f75f...@news.nwlink.com>,
morr...@morrigan.net (Danielle Ni Dhighe) wrote:
> str...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Has the unique American custom of "trick or treating" on Holloween
> >(31 October) spread to Ireland?
>
> It's not unique to America, as Halloween customs are derived from the
older
> customs of Samhain which were celebrated throughout Celtic nations
(Ireland,
> Scotland, Wales, etc.). For more, read:
> http://www.imbas.org/samhain.htm
>
>
************************************************************************
**
> Danielle Ni Dhighe * morr...@morrigan.net * http://www.morrigan.net/
> "We can't give up dreaming, even if it sounds romantic and obsolete."
> - Gioconda Belli
>
************************************************************************
**
>
str...@my-deja.com
the goose is getting fat" in a search engine on the net. You'll find
HUNDREDS of sites for the Christmas version. There doesn't seem to be
any for the Halloween version.
As for children begging in Northern Ireland in the 1940's, are you sure
you're not confusing it with Guy Fawks or some other begging day?
In article <37d83...@einstien.netscapeonline.co.uk>,
Danielle Ni Dhighe
>I'm sorry to say, I find this claim rather unconvincing. Celtic
>religion has been dead, or nearly, so for about a 1000 years.
Not entirely true! While the pre-Christian religion was replaced by
Christianity about 1500 years ago, many of the customs associated with it
survived right up to this century in a Christian guise. The author of the
article is an anthropologist who actually lived in a Gaelic-speaking community
in Ireland, where some of these customs were still being practiced in the
1960s It's not something made up.
>"Trick
>or treating", the American custom of children receiving sweets from
>neighbors, is only about 50 years old. There is a slight gap of ----
>about 950 years.
You don't see the similarity between the Samhain custom of wearing costumes
and going from house to house asking for food and the Halloween
trick-or-treating? Did you even read the article?
**************************************************************************
Bro
<str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7ra8pt$or3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I suggest you enter the first line of your ditty "hallowe'en is
coming
> the goose is getting fat" in a search engine on the net. You'll find
> HUNDREDS of sites for the Christmas version. There doesn't seem to
be
> any for the Halloween version.
There's a first then. Doesn't really mean a thing though. Just shows
how much crud is on the web. Did you find any sites that weren't
american? I'm not disputing that it was originally a christmas rhyme,
it would make more sense that people were preparing a goose for
christmas but most northern irish will know that as a hallowe'en
rhyme. Maybe it's an ulster-scot thing.
I can't speak for Ger, he's from donegal. They didn't even have trees
there until recently. Used to hang their christmas decorations on a
tame sheep, so I'm told anyway. I dunno what they did for hallowe'en,
probably sacrificed it in some ancient fertility ritual.
> As for children begging in Northern Ireland in the 1940's, are you
sure
> you're not confusing it with Guy Fawks or some other begging day?
>
Definitely, and there aren't any other begging days afaik (we're not
Dubliners you know). I've never heard of anyone in Ireland celebrating
guy fawkes night, except in army barracks. (The large barracks in
holywood had a guy fawkes bonfire and fireworks display every year we
used to sneak into, cos all our fireworks were used up by the 5th.)
My dad (and mum) collected money and treats at hallowe'en and is
certain his parents did too.
bro
EzeeDuzit
"Halloween
also called ALL HALLOWS' EVE or ALL HALLOWS' EVENINGa holy or hallowed
evening observed on October 31, the eve of All Saints' Day. In modern
times, it is the occasion for pranks and for children requesting treats or
threatening tricks.
In ancient Britain and Ireland, the Celtic festival of Samhain eve was
observed on October 31, at the end of summer. This date was also the eve of
the new year in both Celtic and Anglo-Saxon times and was the occasion for
one of the ancient fire festivals when huge bonfires were set on hilltops
to frighten away evil spirits. The date was connected with the return of
herds from pasture, and laws and land tenures were renewed. The souls of
the dead were supposed to revisit their homes on this day, and the autumnal
festival acquired sinister significance, with ghosts, witches, hobgoblins,
black cats, fairies, and demons of all kinds said to be roaming about. It
was the time to placate the supernatural powers controlling the processes
of nature. In addition, Halloween was thought to be the most favourable
time for divinations concerning marriage, luck, health, and death. It was
the only day on which the help of the devil was invoked for such purposes.
The pagan observances influenced the Christian festival of All Hallows'
Eve, celebrated on the same date. Gradually, Halloween became a secular
observance, and many customs and practices developed. In Scotland young
people assembled for games to ascertain which of them would marry during
the year and in what order the marriages would occur. Many Halloween
customs have become games played by children.
Immigrants to the U.S., particularly the Irish, introduced secular
Halloween customs that became popular in the late 19th century.
Mischief-making on this occasion by boys and young men included overturning
sheds and outhouses and breaking windows, and damage to property was
sometimes severe. In later years, the occasion has come to be observed
mainly by small children, who go from house to house, often in costume,
demanding "trick or treat" (the treat, often candy, is generally given and
the trick rarely played). Since 1965, Unicef, an agency of the United
Nations, has attempted to incorporate into the Halloween observance the
collection of money for the United Nations Children's Fund.
A common symbol of Halloween is the jack-o'-lantern (the name possibly was
derived from that for a night watchman). It is a hollowed-out pumpkin
carved in the appearance of a demonic face and with a lighted candle fixed
inside. In Scotland a turnip was used, but the native pumpkin was
substituted in the United States."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To cite this page:
"Halloween" Encyclopædia Britannica Online.
<http://members.eb.com/bol/topic?eu=39752&sctn=1&pm=1>
Easy Does IT,
FRANK C.
"Truth Like Football. Get kicked around much, before reaching goal." -Charlie
Chan
Madra Dubh
-Conway
(Resist)
--
"Go gcreime scata Fomhórach ólta do bhall fearga"
Bro wrote in message <37d83...@einstien.netscapeonline.co.uk>...
Trish
<str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7ra753$nos$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I'm sorry to say, I find this claim rather unconvincing. Celtic
> or treating", the American custom of children receiving sweets from
> neighbors, is only about 50 years old. There is a slight gap of ----
> about 950 years.
>
I don't give anything to childer saying 'trick or treat'...they can say
'Help the Hallowe'en Party' like I used to, or they get nothing. None of
that imported nonsense at my door.
If they persist...I give them a glimpse of my vicious hairy thing (the
handsome Ratty beast), and they run away.
--
Trish
Dublin, Ireland (outta state)
EzeeDuzit
AND TRADITIONS
Traditions Originating in Celtic Times
The Celts coalesced as a society circa 800 BCE. They were located in what is
now the United Kingdom, much of Western Europe and an isolated enclave in what
is now Turkey. They held a major celebration near the end of our month of
October, which they called called "Samhain", a festival to recognize the end of
summer. The story that "Samhain" was a Celtic God of the Dead is a pure myth.
However, it has been repeated so often by conservative Christian and secular
sources that it has taken on a life of its own.
They believed that the veil between this world and the next was thinnest at
this time of year. Friends and relatives who had died would often return, with
their souls inhabiting an animal - often a black cat. Black cats have remained
a symbol of Halloween down to the present time.
In celebration of the recently completed harvest, Celts would give offerings of
food to the Gods. They often went from door to door to collect food to donate
to their deities. Also, young Celts would ask the townspeople for kindling and
wood, and take it to top of the hill for the Samhain bonfire. These are two of
the possible origins of present day "trick or treating."
Samhain was a fire festival. Sacred bonfires were lit on the tops of hills in
honor of the Gods. The townspeople would take an ember from the bonfire to
their home and re-light the fire in their family hearth. The ember would
usually be carried in a holder - often a turnip or gourd. They felt nervous
about walking home in the dark; they were afraid of evil spirits. So they
dressed up in costumes and carved scary faces in their ember holders. They
hoped that the spirits would be frightened and not bother them. Children
continue to dress up today in various costumes. Pumpkins are now the objects of
choice to carve faces into.
Wiccans and some other Neopagans base their religious faith on the religion of
the Celts. They continue to celebrate Samhain today.
<Picture>
Traditions Developed Since Celtic Times
There are many folk traditions associated with Halloween. It is possible that
some had their origins in Celtic times.
<Picture>Jack-o'-lantern: The term "Jack-o'-lantern" came from an Irish folk
tale of the 18th century. Jack was an Irishman. He had tricked the Devil into
climbing an apple tree. He then cut a cross symbol in the tree trunk, thus
trapping the Devil in the branches. At his death, he was unable to again access
to Heaven because of his meanness. The Devil, having a long memory, would not
allow him into Hell. So he was forced to walk the earth endlessly. The devil
took pity on him and gave him a piece of coal to light his path. Jack put it
inside a hollowed-out turnip that he had been eating. <Picture>Apples were
considered have long been associated with female deities, and with immortality,
resurrection, and knowledge. One reason is that if an apple is cut through its
equator, it will reveal a five-pointed star outlined at the center of each
hemisphere. This was a Goddess symbol among the Roma (Gypsies), Celts,
Egyptians, etc. There are many Halloween folk traditions associated with
apples: <Picture><Picture>Unmarried people would attempt to take a bite out of
an apple bobbing in a pail of water, or suspended on a string. The first person
to do so was believed to be the next to marry. <Picture>Peeling an apple in
front of a candle-lit mirror was believed to produce the image of one's future
spouse (3) <Picture>Attempting to produce a long unbroken apple peel was said
to estimate the number of years you had to live. The longer the peel, the
longer your life expectancy.<Picture>In All Souls' Day, European Christians had
a tradition of going from home to home, asking for soul cakes, or currant buns.
In return, they would pray for the souls of the homeowner's relatives.
<Picture>
Origins of Christian Holy Days
<Picture>All Saints' Day was created by Pope Boniface IV in the 7th century CE.
There were so many saints by this time that there were not enough days in the
year to accommodate them. So, All Saints' Day was to recognize the saints who
were without a unique day, and to celebrate saints that the Church had failed
to recognize. It originally was held on May 13, but was moved by Pope Gregory
in 835 CE to November 1 in order to distract Christians from celebrating
Samhain. <Picture>Halloween was originally called All Hallows' Eve which means
the evening before All Saints' Day. "Hallow" is an Old English word for
"saint". This was shortened to Hallowe'en and finally to Halloween. Satanists
have adopted Hallowe'en as one of their three main seasonal days of
celebration. The others are Walpurgus Nacht on MAY-1 and the Satanist's
birthday.<Picture>All Souls' Day was created for NOV-2 to honor faithful
Christians who had died but were not saints. The three days from OCT-31 to
NOV-2 was given the name Hallow Tide.
<Picture>
Halloween in North America
Halloween has become a major folk holiday in the US and Canada. Trick or
"Treaters" go from door to door and collect candies, apples and other goodies.
Hallmark Cards reports that 65% of Americans will decorate their homes and
offices for Halloween. This percentage is exceeded only by Christmas.
Rumors circulated some years ago about adulterated food: poison mixed with
candy; razor blades and pins in apples. Although these rumors have been shown
to be hoaxes, the fear persists. Many adults now only give out pre-packaged
food; many parents check their children's collection and discard anything that
could have been adulterated.
For many decades, the United Nations Children's' Fund (UNICEF) has distributed
boxes to children so that they can collect money at Halloween time. During the
1950's, a few US public schools banned the Unicef boxes, over suspicions that
it might be a Communist plot.
The town of Hancock, MD has refused for more than 20 years to declare a
specific date for Halloween. Their rationale is that if they set a particular
date and a child gets hurt during the trick-or-treating, then the town might be
liable for damages. The school board of Hillsborough NJ bans all religious
celebrations in its schools. So, they have replaced Halloween with a "Fall
Festival". St. Valentine's day has become "Special Person Day."
Some Evangelical Christian churches offer alternative methods of celebrating
Halloween. Some urge their members to distribute Bible tracts along with or
instead of candy treats. Others have "Trunk or Treat" parties in which members
park their cars in the church parking lot, distribute treats from the trunks of
their cars and invite the children into the church hall for a Christian party.
Other congregations hold parties for their families. Costumes are allowed, but
expected to be appropriate for a Christian environment.
Verbal and even physical attacks by conservative Christians appear to reach a
peak at this time of year. They are directed against followers of two very
different religions: Neopaganism and Satanism. This form of religious hatred
is often based on propaganda that dates back to the Middle Ages and
Renaissance, when the Church actively burned Witches, Pagans and other heretics
at the stake.
A growing Halloween tradition within Evangelical Christianity is to provide a
type of horror tableau which promotes public awareness of conservative
Christian concerns. In Arvida, CO, the Abundant Life Christian Center built a
haunted house for Halloween 1997. It includes simulations of:
<Picture>a bloody abortion in progress <Picture>a ritual human sacrifice by a
Satanic cult <Picture>a teen committing suicide <Picture>the funeral of a
homosexual AIDS victim <Picture>a live action scene of a date rape.
It seems that it is socially acceptable to spread the centuries-old hoax that
Wiccans, Satanists and followers ofother minority religions kill infants. If
they attempted to spread the lie that Roman Catholicsor any other large faith
group engaged in human sacrifice, they would receive public condemnation. But
it seems always to be open season on Satanists and Wiccans.
<Picture>
Halloween in Mexico
In the fall, countless numbers of Monarch butterflies return to Mexico and the
shelter of its oyamel fir trees. The beliefs of the Aztecs live on in many
contemporary Mexicans who believe that the butterflies bear the spirits of
their dead ancestors. It is these spirits that the people honor during "Los
Dias de los Muertos" (The Days of the Dead). (4)
It is a joyous, happy holiday - a time of remembering past friends and family
who have died. It is celebrated, during Halloween, All Saints' Day and All
Souls' Day, OCT-31 to NOV-2. Altars in the homes are decorated with bread,
candy, fruit, and flowers. Candles are lit in memory of their ancestors. The
people dress up as ghouls, ghosts, mummies and skeletons. They parade a live
person in a coffin through the streets. Vendors toss fruit, flowers and candies
into the coffin. Families visit the cemetery carrying tools to spruce up the
graves and decorate them. They stay over-night.
American Halloween customs are gradually taking over this celebration.
<Picture>
Halloween in Other Countries
In England, some of the customs of Samhain have transferred to Guy Fawkes Night
each NOV-5. The celebration is also known as Bonfire Night. Guy Fawkes
attempted to blow up the House of Commons in London. He died a gruesome death,
imposed by the courts.
Halloween is rarely celebrated outside of North America, except among American
emigrants.
<Picture>
Safety Considerations
Darkness, cars, drunk drivers, and children dressed in costumes with limited
visibility can make a deadly combination. Harvard University's Police &
Security Department have prepared a list of "Halloween Safety Tips for Kids."
(5) The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission has a list of "Halloween Tips."
(6)
The American Animal Hospital Association has a description of some of the
hazards that this holiday can pose for family pets. (7)
<Picture>
References:
1.AABYSS Marketing Inc. sells a 40-minute videotape, which describes Halloween
customs in Costa Rica, Ireland, and Mexico. See:
http://www.a-aabyss.com/video/showcase/6715.htm 2.Rowan Moonstone, "The Origins
of Halloween". This essay has an extensive bibliography. See:
http://aztec.lib.utk.edu/~michie/hallorig_print.html (May be a dead link)
3.B.G. Walker, "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets", Harper & Row,
(1983), Pages 48-50 4.CLNet has a series of essays on the Mexican Holiday "Los
Dias de Los Muertos" (The Days of the Dead) at:
http://latino.sscnet.ucla.edu/research/folklore.html 5."Halloween Safety Tips
for Kids" is at: http://www.harvard.edu/hupd/halloween_safety_tips.html
6."Halloween Tips" is at: http://www.babybag.com/cpsc/tip96194.htm (May be a
dead link) 7.The American Animal Hospital Association's essay "Halloween &
Dangers it Presents to Pets" is at:
http://www.cyberpet.com/cyberdog/articles/general/hallowen.htm
ACooper213
>Trick
>or treating", the American custom of children receiving sweets from
>neighbors, is only about 50 years old.
"Only" is rather non-specific, but I went trick-or-treating for candy when a
child....and that was over 50 years ago. I don't think I was pioneering
anything.
Tony
Madra Dubh
-Conway
(Any Sassanach about?)
(And the faux Sassanach from Ulster need not reply)
--
"Is glas iad na cnoic i' bhfad uainn"
Bro wrote in message <37d9...@plato.netscapeonline.co.uk>...
>
>You merkins ur jist ignernt ballickses
>
Bro
> It "Christmas" Bro, "Christmas is a'coming". "Hallowee'en" my arse.
> -Conway
> (Resist)
You merkins ur jist ignernt ballickses
bro
Bro
Trish <your...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37d9...@royan.d-n-a.net...
>
> <str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7ra753$nos$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > I'm sorry to say, I find this claim rather unconvincing. Celtic
> > religion has been dead, or nearly, so for about a 1000 years.
> > or treating", the American custom of children receiving sweets
from
of ----
> > about 950 years.
> >
>
>
> I don't give anything to childer saying 'trick or treat'...they can
say
childer? dubliner, right. english scum .
> 'Help the Hallowe'en Party' like I used to, or they get nothing.
None of
> that imported nonsense at my door.
> If they persist...I give them a glimpse of my vicious hairy thing
I'd pay you for that.
bro
Danielle Ni Dhighe
>> If they persist...I give them a glimpse of my vicious hairy thing
>
>I'd pay you for that.
I bet.
str...@my-deja.com
Try it yourself. Lots of English sites.
I'm not disputing that it was originally a christmas rhyme,
> it would make more sense that people were preparing a goose for
> christmas but most northern irish will know that as a hallowe'en
> rhyme. Maybe it's an ulster-scot thing.
Maybe. Interesting if that's the case and I appreciate the information.
> > you're not confusing it with Guy Fawks or some other begging day?
> >
>
> Definitely, and there aren't any other begging days afaik (we're not
> Dubliners you know).
My Scottish correspondents claim that it was customary in Scotland to go
"'guising" which is dressing in costume and going house to house for
snacks on Halloween. Could this be related to the Ulster custom you have
described ?
>
> bro
Bro
<str...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7rfcar$94m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <37d90f47$1...@plato.netscapeonline.co.uk>,
> "Bro" <bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
> >
> Did you find any sites that weren't
> > american?
>
> Try it yourself. Lots of English sites.
>
I'll take your word for it
> I'm not disputing that it was originally a christmas rhyme,
> > it would make more sense that people were preparing a goose for
> > christmas but most northern irish will know that as a hallowe'en
> > rhyme. Maybe it's an ulster-scot thing.
> Maybe. Interesting if that's the case and I appreciate the
information.
>
> > > you're not confusing it with Guy Fawks or some other begging
day?
> > >
> >
> > Definitely, and there aren't any other begging days afaik (we're
not
> > Dubliners you know).
>
> My Scottish correspondents claim that it was customary in Scotland
to go
> "'guising" which is dressing in costume and going house to house for
> snacks on Halloween. Could this be related to the Ulster custom you
have
> described ?
almost certainly then. It's certanly very common in the most
scots-influenced areas of ulster, antrim and down, the north-eastern
counties.
bro
Hockersmith
> If they persist...I give them a glimpse of my vicious hairy thing (the
> handsome Ratty beast), and they run away.
I love this line...a lot. :)
I let my giant shaggy monstress answer the door on Halloween.
KateH :)
K. E. Dennis
> "Bro" <bro:-...@talk21.com> wrote:
>
> [re: Hallowe'en & such]
> > I'm not disputing that it was originally a christmas rhyme,
> >it would make more sense that people were preparing a goose for
> >christmas but most northern irish will know that as a hallowe'en
> >rhyme. Maybe it's an ulster-scot thing.
> >I can't speak for Ger, he's from donegal.
>
> There's a website (http://www.folkwales.org.uk/arctd1.html) which has
> mummers in Wales travelling from Hallowe'en to Christmas. Round our
> way it was usually just the last week or so before Christmas, there's
> no reason why it shouldn't have gravitated towards Hallowe'en further
> east.
Interesting page there, Ger.
It reminds me that there’s a good book floating about on mummers in Ireland
– specifically, in Fermanagh - by Henry Glassie, the cultural historian
whose “Passing The Time in Ballymenone” [1982, Univ. of Pennsylvania Press]
is one of the best works on Irish rural life I’ve ever read:
All Silver and No Brass : An Irish Christmas Mumming
Henry Glassie
1976, Univ. of Indiana Press & Dolmen Press [Dublin]
reprinted 1983, Univ. of Pennsylvania Press
I’ve been thinking about this, how it makes a great deal of sense, really,
that the ‘trick or treat’ / mummers' play tradition, visiting from
household to household @ night, w/ costumes & rhymes, & demands for food &
money, should have been a season long practice - beginning w/ Samhain [or
Hallowe’en], ending (more-or-less) w/ Imbolc [now, Christmas] - rather than
tied to a single day @ either end.
That’s the time of yr, after all, when the harvests are in, the days short
& nights long: a visit, a céilí, a bit of play-acting & story-telling &
riddling & such-like tricks would be especially welcome to chase away the
shadows of the dying yr.
IIRC, it was this same time of yr that was the traditional season of
feasting under the old Gaelic order – when lords & their retinues traveled
about thru the tuath availing themselves of the contractual hospitality of
their clients. I wonder if in the Hallowe’en-to-Christmas patterns of
house-to-house trick-or-treat/mumming/caroling, we might not be seeing a
faint reflection of that seasonal cycle of obligatory hospitality under the
old order?
respectfully submitted,