An Bhean Mhídhílis / The Unfaithful Wife : a poem for St. Valentine's Day
K. E. Dennis
I was urged by a friend to post this, in honour of that most hopeful /
disillusioning day of the year.
Another of our Nuala's sly & irreverent masterpieces, this comes w/ a
translation by Paul Muldoon which has its undeniable charms, but - alas
for those among us who cannot read Irish - simply doesn't capture the
playfulness & simplicity of Ní Dhomhnaill's original. As when witty,
concise lines like:
> Chumair ó dheoch go deoch
> is o joke go joke
are rendered in such flowery phrases as:
> A quick succession of snorts & snifters
> and his relentless repartee
...but we must make do w/ what we have. (Perhaps one of ye Irish mavens
would take a crack @ a new translation?)
So, w/o further ado: ...the incomparable Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill, on the
themes of pleasure, trust & deception.
respectfully submitted,
|K.E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu
|My employer is not responsible for my opinions,
|regardless of how sensible they are
______________________________
Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill
_Pharoah's Daughter_
pub. 1990, Gallery Press
An Bhean Mhídhílis
Do phioc sé suas mé
ag an gcúntúirt
is tar éis beagáinín cainte
do thairg deoch donn
nár eitíos uiadh
is do shuímair síos
ag comhrá.
Chumair ó dheoch go deoch
is o joke go joke
is do bhíos-sa sna trithí aige
ach dá mhéid a bhíos ólta
ní dúrt leis go rabhas pósta.
Dúirt sé go raibh carr aige
is ar theastaigh síob abhaile uaim
is ní fada ar an mbóthar
nó gur bhuail an teidhe é.
Do tharraing sé isteach ag lay-by
chun gurbh fhusaide mé a phógadh.
Bhí málaí plaisteacha ar na sceacha
is bruscar ag gabháilt lastuas dóibh
is nuair a leag sé a lámh idir mo cheathrúna
ní dúirt leis go rabhas pósta.
Bhí sé cleachtaithe deaslámhach
ag oscailt chnaipí íochtair mo ghúna,
ag alpadáil go bart mo stocaí
is an cneas bog os a gcionnstan
is nuair a bhraith sé
nach raibh bríste orm
nach air a tháinig giúmar
is cé thógfadh orm ag an nóiméad sin
ná dúrt leis go rabhas pósta.
Do bhain sé do a threabhsar
leis an éirí a bhuail air
is do shleamhnaigh sall im shuíochánsa
is do tharraing sé anuas air mé
is nuair a shuíos síos air go cúramach
is gur mharcaíos thar an sprioc é
ba é an chloch ba shia im phaidrín
a rá leis go rabhas pósta.
Bhí mus úr a cholainne
mar ghairdin i ndiaidh báistí
is bhí a chraiceann chomh slim
chomh síodúil sin lem chneas féin
agus is mór an abairt sin
is nuair a bhíos ag tabhairt
pléisiúrtha dhó
d'fhéach sé sa dá shúil orm
is fuaireas mothú pabhair is tuisceana
nár bhraitheas ó táim pósta.
Bhí boladh lofa ós na clathacha
is dramhaíl ag bun na gcrann
is bhí an port féarach toabh liom
breac le cac gadhar na gcomharsan
is nuair a thráigh ar an éirí air
tháinig aithis is ceann faoi air
is nár dhomh ba mhaith an mhaise ansan
ná dúrt leis go rabhas pósta.
Do bhuaileas suas an casán
lem scol amhráin is lem phort feadaíle
is níor ligeas orm le héinne
an eachtra a bhí laistiar díom
is má chastar orm arís é
i ndioscó nó i dteach tábhairne
ar ghrá oinigh nó réitigh
nío admhód riamh bheith pósta.
An ndéanfása?
_______________________________
The Unfaithful Wife [trans: Paul Muldoon]
He started coming on to me
at the spirit-grocer's warped & wonky counter
and after a preliminary spot of banter
offered to buy me a glass of porter;
I wasn't one to demur
and in no time at all we were talking
the hind leg off a donkey.
A quick succession of snorts & snifters
and his relentless repartee
had me splitting my sides with laughter.
However much the drink had loosened my tongue
I never let on I was married.
He would ask if he could leave me home
in his famous motoring-car,
though we hadn't gone very far down that road
when he was overtaken by desire.
He pulled off in a lay-by
the better to heap me with kisses.
There were plastic bags bursting with rubbish
stacked against the bushes.
Even as he slipped his hand between my thighs
I never let on I was married.
He was so handy,
too, when it came to unbuttoning my dress
and working his way past my stocking-tops
to the soft skin just above.
When it dawned on him
that I wasn't wearing panties
things were definitely on the up and up
and it hardly seemed the appropriate moment
to let on I was married.
By this time he had dropped his trousers
and, with his proper little charlie,
manoeuvred himself into the passenger-seat
and drew me down until, ever so gingerly,
I might mount.
As I rode him past the winning-post
nothing could have been further from my mind
than to let on I was married.
For his body was every bit as sweet
as a garden after a shower
and his skin was as sheer-delicate as my own
- which is saying rather a lot -
while the way he looked me straight in the eye
as he took such great delight
gave me a sense a power & the kind of insight
I'd not had since I was married.
There was this all-pervasive smell
from the refuse-sacks lying under the hedge
while the green, grassy slope beyond
was littered with dog-shit.
Now, as the groundswell of passion
began to subside,
he himself had a hang-dog, coy expression
that made me think it was just as well
I never let on I was married.
As I marched up my own garden-path
I kicked up a little dust,
I burst into song & whistled a tune
and vowed not to breathe a word
to a soul about what I'd done.
And, if by chance, I run into him again
at a disco or in some shebeen
the only honourable course -
the only decent thing -
would be to keep faith & not betray his trust
by letting on I was married.
Don't you think?
_______________________________
MMcC
In article <34E4BF7B...@mail.montclair.edu>, "K. E. Dennis"
<den...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
> I was urged by a friend to post this, in honour of that most hopeful /
> disillusioning day of the year.
>
> Another of our Nuala's sly & irreverent masterpieces, this comes w/ a
> translation by Paul Muldoon which has its undeniable charms, but - alas
> for those among us who cannot read Irish - simply doesn't capture the
> playfulness & simplicity of Ní Dhomhnaill's original. As when witty,
> concise lines like:
>
> > Chumair ó dheoch go deoch
> > is o joke go joke
>
> are rendered in such flowery phrases as:
>
> > A quick succession of snorts & snifters
> > and his relentless repartee
>
> ...but we must make do w/ what we have. (Perhaps one of ye Irish mavens
> would take a crack @ a new translation?)
>
I'll give it a shot..... this is going to be a bit rough and literal, and
not near as flowery as Paul Muldoon's, but here goes
>
> Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill
> _Pharoah's Daughter_
> pub. 1990, Gallery Press
>
>
> An Bhean Mhídhílis
>
>
> Do phioc sé suas mé
> ag an gcúntúirt
> is tar éis beagáinín cainte
> do thairg deoch donn
> nár eitíos uiadh
> is do shuímair síos
> ag comhrá.
> Chumair ó dheoch go deoch
> is o joke go joke
> is do bhíos-sa sna trithí aige
> ach dá mhéid a bhíos ólta
> ní dúrt leis go rabhas pósta.
>
He picked me up
at the counter
and after a wee bit of talk
he offered a brown drink (porter I suppose)
I didn't refuse it
and we sat down
chatting
We went from drink to drink
and from joke to joke
even with the amount I had drunk
I never told him I was married
> Dúirt sé go raibh carr aige
> is ar theastaigh síob abhaile uaim
> is ní fada ar an mbóthar
> nó gur bhuail an teidhe é.
> Do tharraing sé isteach ag lay-by
> chun gurbh fhusaide mé a phógadh.
> Bhí málaí plaisteacha ar na sceacha
> is bruscar ag gabháilt lastuas dóibh
> is nuair a leag sé a lámh idir mo cheathrúna
> ní dúirt leis go rabhas pósta.
>
He said he had a car
and he'd give me a lift home
and we weren't long on the road
when urge came over him
he pulled into a lay-by
so he'd have a chance to kiss me
there were plastic bags by the hawthornes
and thrash coming out of them
and when he put his hand between my thighs
I didn't tell him I was married
> Bhí sé cleachtaithe deaslámhach
> ag oscailt chnaipí íochtair mo ghúna,
> ag alpadáil go bart mo stocaí
> is an cneas bog os a gcionnstan
> is nuair a bhraith sé
> nach raibh bríste orm
> nach air a tháinig giúmar
> is cé thógfadh orm ag an nóiméad sin
> ná dúrt leis go rabhas pósta.
>
He was handy and skillfull
opening the lower buttons of my dress
undoing my stockings from top to bottom
and to the soft skin above that
and when he copped on
that I had no panties on
didn't a humour come over him
and what would distract me at that moment
to tell him I was married
> Do bhain sé do a threabhsar
> leis an éirí a bhuail air
> is do shleamhnaigh sall im shuíochánsa
> is do tharraing sé anuas air mé
> is nuair a shuíos síos air go cúramach
> is gur mharcaíos thar an sprioc é
> ba é an chloch ba shia im phaidrín
> a rá leis go rabhas pósta.
>
He took of his trousers
with his hard-on throbbing
and he slid over into the chair
and he pulled me on top of him
and when I went down onto him carefully
and rode him past the post
it was as if rosary beads were made of stone (ok, this line's tough... any
ideas?)
to tell him I was married.
> Bhí mus úr a cholainne
> mar ghairdin i ndiaidh báistí
> is bhí a chraiceann chomh slim
> chomh síodúil sin lem chneas féin
> agus is mór an abairt sin
> is nuair a bhíos ag tabhairt
> pléisiúrtha dhó
> d'fhéach sé sa dá shúil orm
> is fuaireas mothú pabhair is tuisceana
> nár bhraitheas ó táim pósta.
The sweet smell of his body
like a garden after a rain shower
and his skin was so slim
so silky like my own
and great was that sentence
when I was giving him pleasure
he looked into my eyes
and I got a sensation of power and understanding
that I hadn't felt since I've been married
> Bhí boladh lofa ós na clathacha
> is dramhaíl ag bun na gcrann
> is bhí an port féarach toabh liom
> breac le cac gadhar na gcomharsan
> is nuair a thráigh ar an éirí air
> tháinig aithis is ceann faoi air
> is nár dhomh ba mhaith an mhaise ansan
> ná dúrt leis go rabhas pósta.
>
There was a rotten smell from the thrash
and refuse at the butt of the tree
and the grassy field beside me
littered with the neighbours dog's shit
and when his hard-on went limp
a shame and ???? came over him
there wasn't a doubt that it was as well
that I didn't tell him I was married
> Do bhuaileas suas an casán
> lem scol amhráin is lem phort feadaíle
> is níor ligeas orm le héinne
> an eachtra a bhí laistiar díom
> is má chastar orm arís é
> i ndioscó nó i dteach tábhairne
> ar ghrá oinigh nó réitigh
> nío admhód riamh bheith pósta.
>
I took off up the path
breaking into song and whistling a tune
and I didn't let on to anyone
the adventure that I'd just had
and if I run into him again
at a disco or in a tavern
for the love of honour or keeping things simple
I wouldn't ever confess to being married
> An ndéanfása?
>
Would you do it?
_____________________________
Like I said, it's rough, but I tried to stay real close to the original. I
probably fucked some of it up, so feel free to correct me.
Man, I wish we studied poems like this in Irish class.......... we'd all
've been Irish scholars if we had. I don't think I ever looked forward to
an Irish class in school, but I think I'd have had a whole different
attitude with some of this stuff.
MMcC
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--
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K. E. Dennis
In posting An Bhean Mhídhílis, I'd written that the
>
> translation by Paul Muldoon [...] simply doesn't capture the
> playfulness & simplicity of Ní Dhomhnaill's original. [...]
>
> ...but we must make do w/ what we have. (Perhaps one of ye Irish mavens
> would take a crack @ a new translation?)
& the intrepid Michael McC wrote in reply:
> > I'll give it a shot..... this is going to be a bit rough and literal, and
> > not near as flowery as Paul Muldoon's, but here goes
[snip of fine, direct - & yes, all right, rough & literal - translation
of An Bhean Mhídhílis]
> > Like I said, it's rough, but I tried to stay real close to the original. I
> > probably fucked some of it up, so feel free to correct me.
Good man, Michael. A job well done - & speedily @ that.
The only thing now is for someone to smooth some of those rough edges, &
to wrangle w/ the vocabulary so Ní Dhomhnaill's teasing word games &
word echoes come thru.
Any volunteers?
> > Man, I wish we studied poems like this in Irish class.......... we'd
> all
> > 've been Irish scholars if we had. I don't think I ever looked
> forward to
> > an Irish class in school, but I think I'd have had a whole different
> > attitude with some of this stuff.
>
& there's quite a bit of it, too, not just w/ the modern poets but in
the folk poetry. Tho most of the latter that has survived to be
published in anthologies has been excised or euphemized into
innocuousness.
Still, your one "Anonymous" wrote & sang a fair number of lively
verses...
Then Tom McVey wrote:
>
> Similiarly, if they gave some of Catullus's racier poems to translate,
> more
> kids would pay attention during Latin class.
>
> "Better Education through Smut".
Amen to that <she says w/ a wicked grin>.
A friend of mine who teaches Latin & Greek @ a private school swears she
got interested in the first place because all the racy bits in her
father's medical texts were in Latin.
Personally, I found my motivation to swot over the old French was
greatly enhanced when it finally occurred to me that all the
unexpurgated texts of everything, & all the truly exciting literature,
seemed to be published in that glorious tongue... <getting all
misty-eyed w/ fond memories>
Tony Dermody
Karen E. Dennis posted Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill's immoral poem 'An Bhean Mhídhílis'
on the newsgroup. This wouldn't be so bad in itself, since it was written in
Irish, and only a few could read it. There are some of us, also, who might have
read it with justification (and righteous indignation) in order to acquaint
ourselves with the depth of depravity into which our literary intelligensia are
nowadays decending; the purpose of gaining such acquaintaince being to enable us
the better to warn others about the dangers of reading such material.
Unfortuantely Ms. Dennis hinted at the salacious nature of the poem, thus
unnecessarily exciting unseemly curiosity in others, who were thereby enticed to
read it, for the entirely improper purpose of the stimulation of sexual thoughts
and desires. This grievous evil was further compounded when MMcC translated the
thing into English, thus opening up the very real possibility that many more
people (than those who understand Irish) would be led into reading it, and would
be placed thus in serious danger of commiting grave sin.
MMcC even goes so far as to bemoan the fact that such salacious material had not
been available when they went to school:
> Man, I wish we studied poems like this in Irish class.......... we'd all
> 've been Irish scholars if we had. I don't think I ever looked forward to
> an Irish class in school, but I think I'd have had a whole different
> attitude with some of this stuff.
Later Tom McVey supports the active subversion of the morals of our youth by the
educational system:
>> Similiarly, if they gave some of Catullus's racier poems to translate,
>> more kids would pay attention during Latin class.
>>
>> "Better Education through Smut".
This aspiration receives the wholehearted support of Ms. Dennis:
>Amen to that <she says w/ a wicked grin>.
>
>A friend of mine who teaches Latin & Greek @ a private school swears she
>got interested in the first place because all the racy bits in her
>father's medical texts were in Latin.
>
>Personally, I found my motivation to swot over the old French was
>greatly enhanced when it finally occurred to me that all the
>unexpurgated texts of everything, & all the truly exciting literature,
>seemed to be published in that glorious tongue... getting all
>misty-eyed w/ fond memories.
This is all a long way from the holy Catholic Ireland of De Valera and the
fathers of our nation. I blush with shame for our modern youth and the pagan
sinfullness to which they are nowadays daily exposed. Even this newsgroup
nurtures iniquity. Let me remind the purveyors of filth on this newsgroup of
the CORRECT MORAL POSITION in relation to sexually suggestive literature:
'The reading of a very obscene book without sufficient reason is usually a
grievous sin'. Thus books which treat of, or narrate, or teach matters which
are lewd or obscene, or which attack good morals are prohibited. This stricture
is taken from: 'Moral and Pastoral Theology'; by Henry Davis S.J.; Volume Two;
Published by Sheed & Ward, London, 1936; Pages 199 and 419-420 [Nihil Obstat:
Leonardus Geddes S.J.; Imprimatur: Thomas Archiepus Birmingamiensis]. Davis
goes on of course to point out (Page 199) that if the book must be read
oficially, or for the purpose of necessary refutation or knowledge (as in my
case), no sin is committed. He also points out (Page 417) that what is
forbidden by the Church in the matter of books is forbidden also in 'other
published matter of whatever sort'.
Ní Dhomhnaill's poem praises adultery. I can hardly bring myself to strike the
keys, so great is my agitation at the thought of this heinous depravity, but I
must press on to point out the CORRECT MORAL POSITION in relation to such
unnatural practices. Davis of course warns us of the general duty we have to
resist sexual pleasure, and says (Page 188) that 'Acceptance of venereal
pleasure, even when its cause is non-voluntary, would be a grievous sin'. So
much the more then is adultery itself prohibited.
Because of the delicate nature of this subject, and lest the ill-informed
general populace should be, even accidentally, introduced to matters of which
they were blissfully ignorant, Davis's treatise on moral and pastoral theology
adopts the device of using Latin to expound on such matters. I quote from him
therefore untranslated, solely for the edification of those who have sufficient
reason for reading about such matters, and who have strengthened their minds,
and curbed their concupisence, through the diligent study of the classics. He
says (pages 207-208):
[Begin Edited Quotation]
1. Fornicatio.
Fornicatio est completa et vera copula extraconjugalis, mutuo consensu facta,
seu ea copula quae exercetur extra legitimum vinculum matrimoniale. In
definitione supponitur copula in qua fit seminis effusio a parte viri. Si copuls
fit sine tali effusione, nam feminae effusio nil ad rem facit ratione hujus
peccati, adest tactus impudicus cum attentata fornicatione. Si vero effusio
seminis voluntarie fit post abruptionem cpoulae, adest pejus peccatum, scil.,
onanismus.
...
2. Adulterium.
Adulterium est copula inter virium et feminam, quorum satlem alterutra personem
est conjugata. Hoc peccatum est contra castitatem et justitiam.
[End Edited Quotation]
I omit the section on 'Peccatis Contra Naturam', which includes 'Pollutio',
'Sodomia', 'Bestialitas' et cetera, as these are not germane to the subject
matter of Ní Dhomhnaill's poem. It's of course entirely appropriate that
Messers Dennis, McVey, and MMcC won't have a clue what that is all about since
they didn't pay attention to their Latin teachers in school.
Oh! how far we have fallen in this day and age where we flagrantly broadcast the
detail of even the most shameful unchaste and corrupt acts, in the vernacular,
mindless of the effect on innocent minds.
Tony Dermody
(Delete 'nodamnjunk.' from e-mail address to reply).
SPARK: http://www.iol.ie/~tdermody/index.html
Unfortunately, now somewhat out-of-date.
fünkitown
This has to be a spoof!
Tony Dermody wrote:
> This is all a long way from the holy Catholic Ireland of De Valera and the
> fathers of our nation. I blush with shame for our modern youth and the pagan
> sinfullness to which they are nowadays daily exposed. Even this newsgroup
> nurtures iniquity. Let me remind the purveyors of filth on this newsgroup of
> the CORRECT MORAL POSITION in relation to sexually suggestive literature:
As the main "purveyor of filth" on this newsgroup, I say you are 100% right in the above
statement.
Ain't it grand!
fünkitown
> Tony Dermody wrote:
[SNIPPED UTTER PURITANICAL SHITE]
How dare you denounce Ms. Dennis in that manner. She is fine,
intelligent and decent woman who is helping to de-secterianize this
often depressing newsgroup. Any lack of moral standing around here is
caused by miserable hate-filled bigots coming on and spouting an endless
steam of rubbish that we all got sick of a long time ago.
K. E. Dennis is a high-class, modern, woman as are most of the women on
this newsgroup and you should be ashamed of yourself questioning their
moral credibility. Women like these, are gifts not to be taken lightly
or shunned when they express an opinion that clashes with your
small-minded view of life. Michael McCollough is one of the best posters
on S.C.I., he never gets drawn into the sectarian mud flinging, and he
is always polite and interesting and has help given me a new pride and
understanding of my native tongue. I thank him for that.
Pick on me I deserve it. I am the little working-class commoner of this
newsgroup with the filthy mind and perverted manners. Come on prick, why
did you single out two nice people, but not have a go at me? Are you
scared, that I may just be the one to put you back in the display case?
How dare you come on here and spout your self-rightous rubbish. Noboby
cares, you are a fossil of little value, so go find youself a rock and
attach your cold body to it. You should be ashamed of yourself. Judging
people because you think God gave you the microphone. Screw you, screw
Dev's Ireland, go away and long live the young people of Ireland and the
joys of being young and carefree.
Salutations to Ireland's young people, because they are the ones who
will get us of the mess Dev's Devils gave my generation. Long live
Freedom, Long Live Womanhood, Long Live Youth and Long Live Ireland.
unki
Alan D Red
fünkitown <kfuz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Tony Dermody wrote:
>[SNIPPED UTTER PURITANICAL SHITE]
>How dare you denounce Ms. Dennis in that manner. She is fine,
>intelligent and decent woman who is helping to de-secterianize this
>often depressing newsgroup. Any lack of moral standing around here is
>caused by miserable hate-filled bigots coming on and spouting an endless
>steam of rubbish that we all got sick of a long time ago.
>K. E. Dennis is a high-class, modern, woman as are most of the women on
>this newsgroup and you should be ashamed of yourself questioning their
>moral credibility. Women like these, are gifts not to be taken lightly
>or shunned when they express an opinion that clashes with your
>small-minded view of life. Michael McCollough is one of the best posters
>on S.C.I., he never gets drawn into the sectarian mud flinging, and he
>is always polite and interesting and has help given me a new pride and
>understanding of my native tongue
Which sounds like its up a certain ladies chufter
at present
###########
'' the Golden Child''
Greggers
tom mcvey <tom_...@rocketmail.shoobedoobedowop.com> wrote:
> In article <Arkle-13029...@206.133.131.59>, Ar...@3chgold.cup
> (MMcC) wrote:
>
>
> > Man, I wish we studied poems like this in Irish class.......... we'd all
> > 've been Irish scholars if we had. I don't think I ever looked forward to
> > an Irish class in school, but I think I'd have had a whole different
> > attitude with some of this stuff.
>
> Similiarly, if they gave some of Catullus's racier poems to translate, more
> kids would pay attention during Latin class.
>
> "Better Education through Smut".
>
> > MMcC
DW Taylor and J Nunsell "A short guide to electioneering" Lactor3 in the
Lact series, I thought might be cool translation for Gerry Lynch.
Literary sources for Roman Britain is another cool one for all if there
is an interest Lactor11. The Open University I think goes in for a lot
of cheap royalty free texts.
We use to record Rugby results in Latin at school in Cambridgeshire.
Master (the) used to tell jokes in the bloody thing as well, he had my
head turned. Dr Who had the odd bit o'latin in it.
Greggers
--
"Unionists hate the Internet"
K. E. Dennis
Tony Dermody wrote:
a thundering jeremiad agnst the forces of licentiousness & paganism, &
the creeping corruption that might follow (all the saints preserve us)
from the promiscuous spread of literacy in the First National Language;
...which thoroughly deserves to be read w/ all the seriousness, sobriety
& decorum w/ which it was written, as an object lesson in those values -
so gravely endangered in our modern world & in this newsgroup - that
have long been the foundation of the Faith of Our Fathers;
...which I made the mistake of reading over lunch, thereupon
comprehensively disgracing myself in the faculty dining room, &
rendering it unlikely I shall ever be able to look the Chairperson of
the University Planning Committee in the eye again;
...which I'm struggling desperately not to re-read just now, as there's
a faculty docents mtg. looming on my calendar, & I'm already gasping for
breath;
...& which I - exposed thus to the world as an exemplar of the
wickedness, heterodoxy, & lasciviousness of my kind & generation -
really, really, really wish I'd written myself.
To wit [snips merely scratching the surface of this magnificent tome]:
> Karen E. Dennis posted Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill's immoral poem 'An Bhean
> Mhídhílis'
> on the newsgroup. This wouldn't be so bad in itself, since it was
> written in
> Irish, and only a few could read it. [...]
>
> Unfortuantely Ms. Dennis hinted at the salacious nature of the poem,
> thus
> unnecessarily exciting unseemly curiosity in others,
>
> [...] This grievous evil was further compounded when MMcC
> translated the
> thing into English, thus [...enticing] many more
> people [...] into reading it, and
> be placed thus in serious danger of commiting grave sin.
>
> MMcC even goes so far as to bemoan the fact that such salacious
> material had not
> been available when they went to school:
>
> [...]
> Later Tom McVey supports the active subversion of the morals of our
> youth by the educational system:
>
> [...]
> This aspiration receives the wholehearted support of Ms. Dennis:
>
> [...]
> This is all a long way from the holy Catholic Ireland of De Valera and
> the
> fathers of our nation. I blush with shame for our modern youth and
> the pagan
> sinfullness to which they are nowadays daily exposed.
>
> [...]
> Ní Dhomhnaill's poem praises adultery. I can hardly bring myself to
> strike the
> keys, so great is my agitation at the thought of this heinous
> depravity, [...]
>
> Because of the delicate nature of this subject, and lest the
> ill-informed
> general populace should be, even accidentally, introduced to matters
> of which
> they were blissfully ignorant, Davis's treatise on moral and pastoral
> theology
> adopts the device of using Latin to expound on such matters.
>
> [...] It's of course entirely appropriate that
> Messers Dennis, McVey, and MMcC won't have a clue what that is all
> about since
> they didn't pay attention to their Latin teachers in school.
[Tony: "Messrs." is particularly brilliant. One in the eye for the
gender addled troll...]
I am breathless w/ admiration (or is that hysteria?), sir.
w/ my regards, & a wicked grin,
Karen "Evil is my middle name" Dennis
|K.E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu
|My employer is not responsible for my opinions,
|regardless of how sensible they are.
:::
K. E. Dennis
fünkitown wrote:
>
> > Tony Dermody wrote:
> [SNIPPED UTTER PURITANICAL SHITE]
>
> How dare you denounce Ms. Dennis in that manner.
[snip excessively flattering comments about your humble correspondent,
who is now blushing fiercely under the cover of her furled wings]
> Michael McCollough is one of the best posters
> on S.C.I., he never gets drawn into the sectarian mud flinging, and he
> is always polite and interesting and has help given me a new pride and
> understanding of my native tongue. I thank him for that.
Here, I can only say Amen to every word. It's ever a pleasure to read
his posts.
> Pick on me I deserve it. I am the little working-class commoner of
> this
> newsgroup with the filthy mind and perverted manners.
Sir, you are the Master of Confrontational Irony yourself.
Altho, in this instance, Mr. Dermody apprears to have stolen a march on
you.
(I hate to be the one to point it out, O Mighty One....)
But if I may echo your closing words:
> Long live
> Freedom, Long Live Womanhood, Long Live Youth and Long Live Ireland.
Long Live UNKI, & Long Live ALL the Netizens of the Virtual Republic of
S.C.I.
Hail Kate!
respectfully submitted,
|K.E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu
|My employer is not responsible for my opinions,
|regardless of how sensible they are.
Owen Roe
There is only one thing I can say after reading this delightful
correspondence:COITO ERGO SUM.
*************************************************
"Consider the reality-tunnel of an educated person 1200 years from now .
How much of our reality-tunnel will still seem "real"?. How much is
unknown or invisble to us" RA Wilson
NO NO NO SPAM.....PERIOD
Tony Dermody
fünkitown wrote:
>Pick on me I deserve it. I am the little working-class commoner of this
>newsgroup with the filthy mind and perverted manners. Come on prick, why
>did you single out two nice people, but not have a go at me? Are you
>scared, that I may just be the one to put you back in the display case?
Confession is good for the soul, and I am glad to see you have made a start.
However, in order to obtain the forgiveness of Almighty God, the confession
should be full and frank, and should hold nothing back. In addition, in order
to be efficacious, there should be sorrow for having offended the Almighty, and
a firm purpose of amendment.
Now that the holy Catholic Church has begun to adopt the easy form of the
sacrement of penance, which does not require a full confession to the priest,
but merely an acknowledgement of ones sinfullness, there is a crying need for
the re-institution of public confession. This would permit penitents to obtain
in great abundance the spiritual graces associated with such public confession.
In my opinion, the Church should embrace modern technology in relation to this,
and confer the sacrament of penance on those who confess over the internet. A
newsgroup such as soc.culture.irish would be ideal for this. In fact, I suggest
that during Lent, this newsgroup should promote public electronic confession.
The clergy could also join in and dispense the sacrament by making the
appropriate posting in response to each confession.
Were I your cyber confessor, however, I would advise you, that your confession
above is clearly lacking in genuine remorse, and that the language used
signifies a continuing hardness of heart. You must forsake the use of crude
language and threatening phrases and humbly beseech God's forgiveness. You must
forgive your enemies with the same measure of good will as God forgives you, a
miserable sinner.
If you find my advice difficult, do not loose heart, for I know that you are
trying to repent. I noted your earlier confession, in another thread, where you
tried to use the earthquake in 1984 to make a clean breast of your filthy, evil,
salacious, lecherous, licentious, lascivious, obsession with polluting yourself,
viz:
>This is the god-honest truth, I remeber it well the center of the quake
>was under the sea off the coast of Wales. I was lying in bed on that
>Saturday morning having a wank when the earthquake happened. The best
>wank I ever had - it was deadly.
You are clearly in the grip of a morbid pathological condition. You will have
to pray much, and seek constantly the help of the sacraments of Holy Mother
Church, if we are to save your immortal soul.
The earthquake may be more associated with your act of impurity than you realise
(and I don't mean the sense of 'the earth moving for you' as Keith Mills
recklessly suggested). No. The moving earth was surely a sign of the
Almighty's displeasure at your deliberate breaking of His commandments. Thank
the Almighty that He stayed His hand, and in His infinite mercy deigned to give
his miserable, unworthy, ungrateful creature another chance to reform.
For your moral instruction I must quote in full the relevant passage from:
'Moral and Pastoral Theology'; by Henry Davis S.J.; Volume Two; Published by
Sheed & Ward, London, 1936.
[Nihil Obstat: Leonardus Geddes S.J.; Imprimatur: Thomas Archiepus
Birmingamiensis].
Note that this is a solid PRE-VATICAN II instruction manual in moral theology,
which eschews the modern tendency to seek refuge from difficult decisions in
moral relativism.
The relevant quotation is from Page 203, and deals with morbid sexuality as
follows:
[Begin quotation from Davis]
A morbid sexuality exists in some persons, due possibly to some factor of
heredity, oftener due to early up-bringing, bad habits, environments, and false
standards of morality. Under the influence of this tendency, at first slight
and such as could be overcome without very great difficulty, turned into other
channels and sublimated, the state becomes mainly pathological. Habits acquired
in early youth become inveterate and produce the disease which the habit vainly
vainly seeks to assuage. The habit is sometimes contracted in childhood through
want of cleanliness, or because childish ailments have been neglected, or by the
discovery early on of voluptuous sensations that may arise from very ordinary
actions. Local irritations in both male and female occasion tactile
manipulations, which produce sexual excitement, and if self-restraint is
abandoned, a disease ensues. The act of masturbation, even without pollution,
often repeated, gives rise to hyperaesthesia of the internal organs to such a
degree that the sufferer is forced to seek relief by solitary unnatural acts.
The vicious circle is complete, and the disease with its supposed alleviation
keeps the mind centred on sexual gratification. Both mind and body are in
active alliance. Self-control is then very difficult. Medical treatment will
be advisable, and the curative treatment may be long and troublesome. If the
state has not become too accentuated, marriage may prove to be a remedy, but in
many cases marriage is no remedy at all, and the patient has to suffer for want
of an outlet that is never, nor can never be, given to his excessive sexuality.
Though it is easy to exaggerate the consequences of masturbation, those
consequences do exist.
[End quotation from Davis]
Ad Majoriam Dei Gloriam.
Carrie Cochrane
Here too! I already had a second name of Aria picked out, and I also
favored Sonnet Siobhán, however with my luck, looks like it ain't gonna
happen.
C.C.
Pete Stuart
Tony Dermody wrote:
> Now that the holy Catholic Church has begun to adopt the easy form of the
> sacrement of penance, which does not require a full confession to the priest,
> but merely an acknowledgement of ones sinfullness, there is a crying need for
> the re-institution of public confession. This would permit penitents to obtain
> in great abundance the spiritual graces associated with such public confession.
> In my opinion, the Church should embrace modern technology in relation to this,
> and confer the sacrament of penance on those who confess over the internet. A
> newsgroup such as soc.culture.irish would be ideal for this.
I agree wholeheartedly. Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. I have committed
adultery in my heart. You see, at the job site today there a woman that jogged by.
She had long brown hair, wavy and flowing like a willow in the breeze. Her face was
sculpted from the finest marble, and I ached seeing her features. Her thin T-shirt
barely hid the sports bra that mashed her firm, full globes to her exquisite torso
and flat tummy. The spandex shorts revealed a pair of buttocks unequaled in slendor,
such as Helen of Troy would have died for. The legs had a muscular definition that
bespoke of superb muscle tone, with no fat or excessive bulk in evidence. As she
ran, her assets bounced not with the abandon of jello, but with the flowing beauty
of firm skin, ignorant of the affects of childbirth, or even gravity. Ahhhh. I
wondered if this was the Goddess Kate, but I pray not, for I demeaned her in my mind
with multiple ravishings, and fantasies of the most deplorable and abhorrent nature.
In fact, if you'll excuse me, all this talk has gotten me rather ...anxious.
> Tony Dermody
--
Pete Stuart
http://personal.bhm.bellsouth.net/~taocelt
I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate
people like that!
-Tom Lehrer
Peter Cassidy
fünkitown (kfuz...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: > Tony Dermody wrote:
: [SNIPPED UTTER PURITANICAL SHITE]
:
: How dare you denounce Ms. Dennis in that manner.
Congratulations, Unki. You've just been trolled .... (Ah. The irony!)
From http://www.iol.ie/~tdermody/phil001.html
"It is sometimes remarked that persons from a Roman Catholic background,
like myself, who have managed to shake off the shackles of religion,
nevertheless retain a philosophical outlook. Whether this is true or not,
I am a good example of the syndrome."
: unki
Pete C
--
| Peter Cassidy - Sacramento, CA, USA | Si/ na Samhna, |
| pcas...@iol.ie - http://www.iol.ie/~pcassidy | Tu/s na Bliain U/r. |
| ** No unsolicited commercial email ** | Si/ an Chrann Marbh, |
| | Deireadh an Tuath. |
fünkitown
Peter Cassidy wrote:
>Congratulations, Unki. You've just been trolled .... (Ah. The irony!)
fuck off
kfuz...@hotmail.com
I know it is only Feb. Ger, but I nominate this as post of the year.
If this guy is the real deal, I will make my confession in public here at
s.c.i. and if he is being Ironically Confrontational, then I have truly met
my match and will start winding down towards retirement.
either way, I am seriouly fucking impressed.
In article <6cdajt$p8o$1...@news2.news.iol.ie>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
kfuz...@hotmail.com
In article <34EA3416...@bellsouth.net>,
Pete Stuart <tao...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I agree wholeheartedly. Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. I have committed
> adultery in my heart. You see, at the job site today there a woman that jogged by.
> She had long brown hair, wavy and flowing like a willow in the breeze. Her face was
> sculpted from the finest marble, and I ached seeing her features. Her thin T-shirt
> barely hid the sports bra that mashed her firm, full globes to her exquisite torso
> and flat tummy. The spandex shorts revealed a pair of buttocks unequaled in slendor,
> such as Helen of Troy would have died for. The legs had a muscular definition that
> bespoke of superb muscle tone, with no fat or excessive bulk in evidence. As she
> ran, her assets bounced not with the abandon of jello, but with the flowing beauty
> of firm skin, ignorant of the affects of childbirth, or even gravity. Ahhhh. I
> wondered if this was the Goddess Kate, but I pray not, for I demeaned her in my mind
> with multiple ravishings, and fantasies of the most deplorable and abhorrent nature.
> In fact, if you'll excuse me, all this talk has gotten me rather ...anxious.
Great post Peter, but Kate is not for us animals good thing you took that
back, because you would be on the Pyre ritht now, my son.
Ms_...@ix.netcom.com
On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:22:50 -0600, tam...@usl.edu (Terry McT.)
wrote:
>Who is this guy? Tell me this is a joke and I missed it. Naw, too many
>citations, etc, in the text. Looks like the pinochle game in my killfile
>just found their fourth hand.
I remember Tony posting to sci as far back as 1996 -- but I don't
remember his politics well enough to tell you whether he's winding us
up or not. Besides, I use to get him confused with Anthony Annett all
the time. Senility is not just for old people, you know.
kfuz...@hotmail.com
> Confession is good for the soul, and I am glad to see you have made a start.
> However, in order to obtain the forgiveness of Almighty God, the confession
> should be full and frank, and should hold nothing back. In addition, in order
> to be efficacious, there should be sorrow for having offended the Almighty, and
> a firm purpose of amendment.
Good to see SIPTU make the great leap into cyber space. Are the lads still
using copies of Das Kapital to wipe their arses with over there in Spa Road?
However, I do dig your style.
fünkitown
He is a member of a cult called SIPTU. The go around Dublin in raggy
clothes carrying copies of Das Kapital under their arms while complaing
about the "nignog" family that moved in next door.
Gerard Cunningham
"K. E. Dennis" <den...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>...but we must make do w/ what we have. (Perhaps one of ye Irish mavens
>would take a crack @ a new translation?)
O why not? If Colin can translate an 18thC Irish poem, I can surely
have a go at this one.
With apologies to all concerned ...
He picked me up
at the counter
& filled me will small talk
'til the wee drinks arrived
I could have left,
but I stayed
to talk.
From drink to drink;
from nod to wink
& through it all
as much as I said
I never said "I'm married".
He said "I've a car,
Do ye fancy a ride?"
& we drove down the road
until lust overtook him
He pulled in to the side
the better to kiss me
'mongst binbags & brambles
& trailings of litter;
& when he hit high gear
I never said I was married
His practiced hands
undid my buttons
and moved past the stockings
to smooth skin above
till he noticed:
no knickers;
got carried away,
& at that point I realized
I never said I was married.
He lost his pants
as he lost control;
slipping into the saddle
he raised me above;
I mounted him gently
& rode him to victory
& 'twas far from my mind then
to mention "I'm married".
His forbidden flesh
like a fresh watered garden;
and his skin was as smooth
and as silky as mine.
Which was saying a lot,
as I gave him
pleasure.
As he looked in my eyes,
I felt knowledge & power
I'd forgotten in marriage,
in the smell of decay
from base of the tree trunks;
in a sweet country meadow
fecund with dog crap.
And when the high faded
shame stabbed at my heart
At the thought that I'd wronged him
by not saying "I'm married"
But I hit the road home
whistling away
& I'll never let on
the adventure I had
& if we meet again
at a pub or a dance
I won't be inhospitable
I won't mention I'm married.
Dare I?
-----
Gerard Cunningham abardubh at wwa dot com
http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/
"For a guide to what's really going on" -s.c.i. FAQ
K. E. Dennis
Gerard Cunningham wrote:
> O why not? If Colin can translate an 18thC Irish poem, I can surely
> have a go at this one.
>
> With apologies to all concerned ...
[snip of gleeful, direct, & spirited translation of Nuala Ní
Dhomhnaill's An Bhean Mhídhílis (sorry, Fr. Tony!....)]
Ah, Ger, you've done it.
Thank you - it's a charm.
You've caught the humour & the simplicity of the original far more
faithfully than Paul Mouldoon. It *sounds* like Our Nuala's voice.
Or mayhap I should, say, like the voice of your one "whistling away"...
Not, of course, that I'm in any way surprised @ this sign of yet another
previously unsuspected talent in one who has:
> raise[d] the standard newsgroup fare to a different level - a
> welcome and impressive innovation."
A thousand congratulations on the long-overdue recognition in Doras.
But only a 3-shamrock rating? Don't Telecom Eireann realize they're
dealing w/ the spiritual <hic> leader of the world's only Virtual
Republic?
I'm composing a *very* stiff letter to them right now.
w/ many thanks & much admiration,
your own devoted swordmaiden / sorceress,
|K.E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu
|My employer is not responsible for my opinions,
|regardless of how sensible they are.
Gerard Cunningham
"K. E. Dennis" <den...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>your own devoted swordmaiden / sorceress,
You'll be voting in Ms Pell's poll then?
K. E. Dennis
Gerard Cunningham wrote:
>
> "K. E. Dennis" <den...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>
> >your own devoted swordmaiden / sorceress,
>
> You'll be voting in Ms Pell's poll then?
How could I refuse m'lord Cardinal?
Hail Kate!
|K.E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu
|My employer is not responsible for my opinions,
|regardless of how sensible they are.