Bush bust on Mt Rushmore?

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Andrew E. Smyth

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Feb 15, 2003, 10:41:56 PM2/15/03
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After the second Gulf War Iraq became a prosperous parliamentary
democracy.
Soon all other Arab states followed suit. Nuclear proliferation
halted because of the credibility of Bush's threats after the second
Gulf War. The world of 2014 is a peaceful, prosperous, and just place
because of President Bush Jr. Surely the Noble Prize is not enough.
Let's put his bust on Mt. Rushmore and perhaps compose a new national
anthem in his behalf.
His courage, when the whole world was against America, has seen the
world through.

Jim Collier

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Feb 15, 2003, 10:54:23 PM2/15/03
to

Andrew E. Smyth wrote:
> After the second Gulf War Iraq became a prosperous parliamentary
> democracy.
> Soon all other Arab states followed suit. Nuclear proliferation
> halted because of the credibility of Bush's threats after the second
> Gulf War. The world of 2014 is a peaceful, prosperous, and just place
> because of President Bush Jr. Surely the Noble Prize is not enough.

What noble prize is that?

> Let's put his bust on Mt. Rushmore and perhaps compose a new national
> anthem in his behalf.

He's going to have share space with Ronnie's papier mache
thingamajig on the left end.

> His courage, when the whole world was against America, has seen the
> world through.

Four more years of recession! Four more years! Four more years!
(Trillions for Fort Worth and not one fucking cent for San Jose!)
Hell, 14 years ago, he couldn't even spell Nobel, and now he's
a Nobelist. Only in America.


--
Jim

Offonmyown

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Feb 15, 2003, 11:08:50 PM2/15/03
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>Four more years of recession! <

The Clinton recession that began in the spring of 2001?

Of course it is asinine to blame a recession on a president, or praise him for
prosperity. The president has very little to do with it. There are a things
other factors that influence the economy. Only those who failed Economics 101,
or never took it, attribute such magical powers to presidents.


Offonmyown

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Feb 15, 2003, 11:13:26 PM2/15/03
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>Four more years of recession! <

The Clinton recession that began in the spring of 2000?

Of course it is asinine to blame a recession on a president, or praise him for

prosperity. The president has very little to do with it. There are thousands
of

Bigfoot

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Feb 16, 2003, 5:02:26 AM2/16/03
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It will soon be renamed "Mt Bushmore".

"Andrew E. Smyth" <Rush...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c40a7ddb.03021...@posting.google.com...

John Tibbs

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Feb 16, 2003, 11:20:47 AM2/16/03
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"Bigfoot" <to...@zianet.net> wrote in message news:<3e4f...@news.zianet.com>...

> It will soon be renamed "Mt Bushmore".

Then I'll visit every year and salute.
jt

Paul Carr

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Feb 16, 2003, 2:23:56 PM2/16/03
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"Andrew E. Smyth" <Rush...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c40a7ddb.03021...@posting.google.com...

What a great man!!. And to think that he was pulled over by the police in
the 1970s for being drunk behind the wheel.

Paul Carr

Chesney Christ

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Feb 16, 2003, 4:12:54 PM2/16/03
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A certain Andrew E. Smyth, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :

>After the second Gulf War Iraq became a prosperous parliamentary
>democracy.

This is absolute wanky hogwash. Not even the current American
administration think they're going to set up a Jeffersonian republic out
there.

There are three options for Iraq :

(a) a left wing government gets in to place. That's not really an
option, since the US won't allow it - that is after all why Saddam H was
installed by the Americans in the first place.

(b) a fundamentalist government gets into place. It colludes with the
new administration in Saudia Arabia to shut down the oil supplies. It
provides weapons, supplies and assistance to Al Quaida.

(c) the Americans replace Saddam with another right wing, anti-rights,
anti-democracy dictator who is amenable to their needs, and things
settle down. A few years later, the dictator decides that Iraq isn't
enough, and invades a neighbouring country such as Kuwait. America
approaches the UN security council and says it wants to invade and
remove this nasty dictator who is a threat to the free world. Return to
step (a).

>Soon all other Arab states followed suit. Nuclear proliferation
>halted because of the credibility of Bush's threats after the second
>Gulf War.

Not if North Korea has anything to say about the matter.

--
George H.W. Bush, as Presidential Nominee for the Republican party;
1987-AUG-27: "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as
citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation
under God."

John Gilmer

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Feb 16, 2003, 8:35:16 PM2/16/03
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>
> This is absolute wanky hogwash. Not even the current American
> administration think they're going to set up a Jeffersonian republic out
> there.

SO: you seem to believe that ARABs just aren't up to intelligent self rule.

Can't argue with that!

Chesney Christ

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Feb 17, 2003, 7:47:31 AM2/17/03
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A certain John Gilmer, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :

Is there such thing as "intelligent self rule" ? :) To answer your
question : no. That's what the Americans believe.

My belief is that there should be UN supervised elections held in the
aftermath of any military campaign. Of course, this won't happen.

John Tibbs

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Feb 17, 2003, 11:47:44 AM2/17/03
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"John Gilmer" <gil...@crosslink.net> wrote in message news:<3e5045b1$0$31...@dingus.crosslink.net>...

Hell, John, the left thinks ordinary Americans cannot think for
themselves and needs a liberal to do their thinking for them. Go
figure...
jt

Alan

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Feb 17, 2003, 12:19:50 PM2/17/03
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Somebody needs to. When 50% think 9/11 was due to Iraq, then something's
seriously wrong with our enlightened way of life.

Alan

--
Windsurfing Club: http://www.ibscc.org


"John Tibbs" <jwt...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:d54a5d4c.03021...@posting.google.com...

John Tibbs

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Feb 17, 2003, 7:18:43 PM2/17/03
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"Alan" <alannc44@{nospam}ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<WQ84a.22956$If5.7...@twister.southeast.rr.com>...

> Somebody needs to. When 50% think 9/11 was due to Iraq, then something's
> seriously wrong with our enlightened way of life.
>
> Alan
>
Yep, that other 50% who think Iraq is innocent need to be
un-enlightened or de-brainwashed or lobotomized even more than they
are.
jt

Howard Beale

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Feb 17, 2003, 7:22:19 PM2/17/03
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John Tibbs <jwt...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:d54a5d4c.03021...@posting.google.com...
> "Alan" <alannc44@{nospam}ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:<WQ84a.22956$If5.7...@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> > Somebody needs to. When 50% think 9/11 was due to Iraq, then something's
> > seriously wrong with our enlightened way of life.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> Yep, that other 50% who think Iraq is innocent need to be
> un-enlightened or de-brainwashed or lobotomized even more than they
> are.

I'm sure that Boy George is working on that problem, right now


--
Howard Beale

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"


winter

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Feb 17, 2003, 11:53:55 AM2/17/03
to
jwt...@msn.com
> "John Gilmer"

>> SO: you seem to believe that ARABs just aren't up to
>> intelligent self rule.
>>
>> Can't argue with that!
>
> Hell, John, the left thinks ordinary Americans cannot think for
> themselves and needs a liberal to do their thinking for them.
> Go figure...


tibbs telling gilmer to "go figure" about thinking
when gilmer has just expresseed a preference for the
simpsons over opposing political commentary.

this stuff must be *way* better than the simpsons!

:)


rgrds,

Jim Collier

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Feb 17, 2003, 8:40:53 PM2/17/03
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John Tibbs wrote:
> "Alan" <alannc44@{nospam}ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<WQ84a.22956$If5.7...@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
>
>>Somebody needs to. When 50% think 9/11 was due to Iraq, then something's
>>seriously wrong with our enlightened way of life.
>>
>>Alan
>>
>
> Yep, that other 50% who think Iraq is innocent need to be
> un-enlightened or de-brainwashed or lobotomized even more than they
> are.


Alan states the central issue and a mush brain like
Tibbs deflects it.

Iraq, specifically Saddam Hussein, is not "innocent".

Iraq has not been shown by any credible source, least of all
Colin Powell, to be connected with the September 11 attacks.
Nor does Osama bin Ladin's convenient tape, if it is authentic,
give this idea any credibility. In fact, if authentic, it
proves the opposite.

A few weeks ago, your excuse for invading Iraq was so
that the U.S. could have its oil. It would seem that
your real excuse is, now that troops are there, give
them something "useful" to do like start a war.

One would further have to wonder about an administration
that believes the nation's most dangerous enemy is alive --
and make no mistake that bin Ladin whatever his numerical
strength is pound for pound as dangerous as they come --
and ** makes no overt move to go after him **. If
this happens on "Kojak" or "Dragnet", it is logical
for the onlooker to conclude that Bush knows
that bin Ladin is dead and has found a hoary-voiced
replacement to keep the citizenry on edge.

I'm no conspiracy buff after loonies like you
hypothesized Clinton murders in every Arkansas
hamlet during those years of properity. But it is
well within the realm of possibilities that your
fruitcake, Crisco Ashcroft, thinks he is part of
some kind of Armageddon play and is capable of
putting aside his restraints to act desperately
and treasonously.

--
Jim Collier

mul

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Feb 18, 2003, 6:59:32 AM2/18/03
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Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in the
last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
I can think of a few demoratic countrys that the Americans turned into
dictatorships.
Mul


"Andrew E. Smyth" <Rush...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Howard Beale

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Feb 18, 2003, 11:44:35 AM2/18/03
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mul <ecobag_...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:nls4a.10331$V6.1...@news.indigo.ie...

> Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in the
> last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?

Japan?

Howard Beale

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Feb 18, 2003, 1:26:32 PM2/18/03
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Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:36u45vc3h07jcn3j6...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh mul:

>
> >Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in
the
> >last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
>
> Germany

The Democratic Republic of?

Chris Hedley

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Feb 18, 2003, 2:07:52 PM2/18/03
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According to Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com>:
> The Democratic Republic of?

Is there some sort of international convention which demands that
countries run by dictatorships _must_ be named along the lines of
"The People's Free Republic Of", "The Democratic Republic Of",
"Col. Dethwobbler's Really Nice, Free and Not At All Repressive
Utopia Of" etc?

Chris.
--
"If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84
Currently playing: Hawkwind - various Bridget Wishart-era stuff
http://www.chrishedley.com My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc

William A. T. Clark

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Feb 18, 2003, 2:18:35 PM2/18/03
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In article <c40a7ddb.03021...@posting.google.com>,

And your spelling is just about as good as Dubya's - Noble Prize, indeed.

William Clark

William A. T. Clark

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Feb 18, 2003, 2:20:45 PM2/18/03
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In article <d54a5d4c.03021...@posting.google.com>,
jwt...@msn.com (John Tibbs) wrote:

Just like Dubya needs Cheney and Rumsfeld to do his thinking for him. He
certainly never came up with an original thought that had more than
three letters in it.

William Clark

John Tibbs

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Feb 18, 2003, 2:27:27 PM2/18/03
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"mul" <ecobag_...@eircom.net> wrote in message news:<nls4a.10331$V6.1...@news.indigo.ie>...
> Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in the
> last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
> I can think of a few demoratic countrys that the Americans turned into
> dictatorships.
> Mul
>
>
Name 'em!

Aemon

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Feb 18, 2003, 2:46:27 PM2/18/03
to
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:17:45 +0000, Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:

>Scríobh mul:


>
>>Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in the
>>last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
>

>Germany

It is quite a democracy as well. To my mind the Mixed Member
Proportional voting system is the most democratic method of electing
governments that exists in the world today.

MMP is working very well in New Zealand now as well.

Aemon

Séimí mac Liam

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Feb 18, 2003, 3:03:44 PM2/18/03
to
c...@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote in
news:8a0u2b...@teabag.cbhnet:

> According to Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com>:
>> The Democratic Republic of?
>
> Is there some sort of international convention which demands that
> countries run by dictatorships _must_ be named along the lines of
> "The People's Free Republic Of", "The Democratic Republic Of",
> "Col. Dethwobbler's Really Nice, Free and Not At All Repressive
> Utopia Of" etc?
>

Yes and is closely tied to the convention which requires thread drift on
usenet.

--

Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

Me again.

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Feb 18, 2003, 3:40:17 PM2/18/03
to

Aemon offered this gem...

> It is quite a democracy as well. To my mind the Mixed Member
> Proportional voting system is the most democratic method of electing
> governments that exists in the world today.


> MMP is working very well in New Zealand now as well.


Got a site for that?


Paul...


> Aemon

--

plinehan__AT__yahoo__dot__com

I would ask that those replying to this (or any other post on usenet)
please reply *_INLINE_*. It makes replies much easier to read and is
a small courtesy towards those who wish to profit from your insight
and wisdom.

Jim Collier

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Feb 18, 2003, 4:51:23 PM2/18/03
to

John Tibbs writes:

This comes from the guy who didn't know whether Poland should
be considered a part of Asia!

Unfortunately, Fox News wasn't available to inform Jojo in the late
1960s when the Rockefeller Commission recommended that the U.S. suppress
popular movements in the Americas because a limited dictatorship was
preferable to an uncontrollable "people's government."

As if the rest of the hemisphere exists for the U.S.A.'s sake...

Nevertheless, the following countries did have democratic
governments before the U.S. overtly ended them by
coercion including invasion or covertly by abetting
coups. The results were sometimes extremely costly
as in the case of Cuba which eventually became a Marxist
state, the representative of the USSR practically within
sight of Florida. Or years of internecine warfare followed
as in the case of Guatemala. Or a despot was installed and
was eventually replaced by a more unpleasant despot in the
case of Iran.

Cuba
Philippines
Nicaragua
Chile
Guatemala
Iran

Take Asia-
The U.S. installed a dictatorship in South Korea; backed
a gang of thieves in the case of China, facilitating the
communist takeover in 1949; and most shortsightedly of all
spurned Ho Chi Minh in 1945 who came as a friend. Under
Ronald Reagan but actually starting with Jimmy Carter,
the United States armed the Taliban.

This is a starter list.

America is viewed in a bipolar fashion in the rest of the
world: in relations of state and military power, it is
viewed with apprehension, as a land of arrogant ignorance.
In culture, most of the rest of the world can't get enough
of what's American.

That's because in the post-war United States, there
was a disconnect between those who formulated culture
and those who ran the military, who had no culture
to speak of.

This bipolar view is dated, having gone retro only
in the past 24 months with the election/appointment of
George W. Bush.

--
Jim Collier

Séimí mac Liam

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Feb 18, 2003, 6:07:04 PM2/18/03
to
Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote in
news:iu955vccnhuas0jn5...@4ax.com:

> Scríobh John Tibbs:

> Chile?
>

While probably technically correct, we didn't actually invade Chile.

Howard Beale

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Feb 18, 2003, 7:22:50 PM2/18/03
to

Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:so955vcn0ooje1t6f...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh Chris Hedley:

>
> >According to Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com>:
> >> The Democratic Republic of?
>
> IIRC, and I'm sure the academics of the newsgroup will back me on
> this, the DDR was the bit the Americans *didn't* invade.

What were they diong in Berlin, then?


> >Is there some sort of international convention which demands that
> >countries run by dictatorships _must_ be named along the lines of
> >"The People's Free Republic Of", "The Democratic Republic Of",
> >"Col. Dethwobbler's Really Nice, Free and Not At All Repressive
> >Utopia Of" etc?
>

> Probably the same one that demands the United Kingdom be riven
> throughout its history by separatist elements.

But still united by popular consent, and the Sun newspaper

E Kurtz

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Feb 18, 2003, 7:38:16 PM2/18/03
to
Rush...@aol.com (Andrew E. Smyth) wrote in message news:<c40a7ddb.03021...@posting.google.com>...

> After the second Gulf War Iraq became a prosperous parliamentary
> democracy.
> Soon all other Arab states followed suit. Nuclear proliferation
> halted because of the credibility of Bush's threats after the second
> Gulf War. The world of 2014 is a peaceful, prosperous, and just place
> because of President Bush Jr. Surely the Noble Prize is not enough.
> Let's put his bust on Mt. Rushmore and perhaps compose a new national
> anthem in his behalf.
> His courage, when the whole world was against America, has seen the
> world through.

The political humorist Marc Russell suggested that Clinton deserves to
be memorialized on Mt. Rushmore, but only from the waist down.

John Gilmer

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Feb 18, 2003, 7:31:39 PM2/18/03
to

"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:36u45vc3h07jcn3j6...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh mul:

>
> >Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in
the
> >last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
>
> Germany

Japan

Chris Hedley

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Feb 18, 2003, 7:45:42 PM2/18/03
to
According to Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir>:

> Probably the same one that demands the United Kingdom be riven
> throughout its history by separatist elements.

That'll be those southern puffs and manky Jocks, if only we could
cut ourselves off from them then things would be fine. ;)

Thalamus

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Feb 18, 2003, 8:17:11 PM2/18/03
to
"John Tibbs" <jwt...@msn.com> skrev i melding
news:d54a5d4c.03021...@posting.google.com...

Honduras, Nicaragua (before the Sandinistas), Cuba (before Castro),
Philipines (remember that dictator that the US propped up?), Iran (before
Khomeini), DDR (German Democratic Republic with the aid of the Soviets),
Argentina (I think Pinocet was heavily supported by the US), Venezuela,
Hawai'i (it was purchased and the inhabitants were brutally supressed, now;
where are the original inhabitants?), China (guess who pulled the rug on
Chang Kai Shek?)/Taiwan, Iraq (propped up by the US, never to be forgotten),
the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan - later emerged as the Taliban-regime (guess
who supported Osama bin Laden? the CIA).

Brian


Chris Hedley

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Feb 18, 2003, 8:30:18 PM2/18/03
to
According to Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir>:
> I'm sure you'll all have great fun in homophobe heaven

Ye're a miserable turd, Ger.

Séimí mac Liam

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Feb 18, 2003, 8:48:59 PM2/18/03
to
c...@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote in
news:anmu2b...@teabag.cbhnet:

> According to Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir>:
>> I'm sure you'll all have great fun in homophobe heaven
>
> Ye're a miserable turd, Ger.
>
> Chris.

But. A miserable turd that smells like cinnamon

Chris Hedley

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Feb 18, 2003, 9:09:08 PM2/18/03
to
According to Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir>:
> Aye, I know, but it still rankles. Why is southern puffs ok as a
> slag, if southern niggers or southern kikes wouldn't be something
> you'd type?

I'd guess because it's a use of the word's original sense where it
denigrates men with tendencies to be affectedly frilly and effeminate
rather than a direct homosexual reference; and, I'm afraid, the
circular reasoning which suggests the level of acceptance of a term
is pretty much based on itself, which is why it's Bad for whitey to
say "nigger" but it's fine for a black guy to talk about "niggaz" etc.
But probably mostly because nobody's really made a big deal out of it
[to me, and until now] other than to respond "Northern maggot" etc
which is probably par for the course.

Besides, the defining characteristic of most Southerners isn't that
they're predominantly black or Jewish but that they're a bunch of
useless, foppish gets.

winter

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Feb 19, 2003, 1:34:26 AM2/19/03
to
EKur...@aol.com (E Kurtz) wrote in

> The political humorist Marc Russell suggested that Clinton
> deserves to be memorialized on Mt. Rushmore, but only from the
> waist down.


where the attention of those he
speaks to and for can mostly be
found.

:)


rgrds,

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Aemon

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Feb 19, 2003, 2:58:57 AM2/19/03
to
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:40:17 -0000, Me again.
<pa...@learn.to.swim.was.just.an.angry.response.to.a.billy.wright.lover>
wrote:

>Aemon offered this gem...
>
>> It is quite a democracy as well. To my mind the Mixed Member
>> Proportional voting system is the most democratic method of electing
>> governments that exists in the world today.
>
>> MMP is working very well in New Zealand now as well.
>
>Got a site for that?

http://www.elections.org.nz/elections/esyst/govt_elect.html

Is that what you're looking for or are you wanting an independant
analysis?

Aemon

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

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Feb 19, 2003, 7:58:39 AM2/19/03
to
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:09:08 +0000, c...@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris
Hedley) wrote:

[snip moderator on why it's wrong to use generalised cultural labels
as offensive jokes: no irony detected so far]

>But probably mostly because nobody's really made a big deal out of it
>[to me, and until now] other than to respond "Northern maggot" etc
>which is probably par for the course.

Just as well, I think you should strenuously object to being called
something as prejudicial and offensive as "northern maggot", you soft
southern poof.

>Besides, the defining characteristic of most Southerners isn't that
>they're predominantly black or Jewish but that they're a bunch of
>useless, foppish gets.

Brought to you from darkest Oxfordshire....

Gavin Bailey
--

But, first, want speed. Bart not greedy as all know. 250MHz enough. I attempt use SGI
chip in MB. But chip not fit, then I bend pins. Shove in MB hard. Now apply hammer.
Yeah, sit down, fucker! Power on, go BEEEEEP! - Bart Kwan En

Westprog

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Feb 19, 2003, 8:28:03 AM2/19/03
to

"Thalamus" <zh...@online.no> wrote in message
news:nWA4a.29619$Rc7.4...@news2.e.nsc.no...


> "John Tibbs" <jwt...@msn.com> skrev i melding
> news:d54a5d4c.03021...@posting.google.com...
> > "mul" <ecobag_...@eircom.net> wrote in message
> news:<nls4a.10331$V6.1...@news.indigo.ie>...
> > > Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded
in
> the
> > > last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?

> > > I can think of a few democratic countries that the Americans turned
into
> > > dictatorships.

> > Name 'em!

> Honduras, Nicaragua (before the Sandinistas), Cuba (before Castro),
> Philipines (remember that dictator that the US propped up?), Iran (before
> Khomeini), DDR (German Democratic Republic with the aid of the Soviets),
> Argentina (I think Pinocet was heavily supported by the US),

Is there some confusion here between Chile and Argentina, and Galtierri,
Pinochet and Exocet?

> Venezuela,
> Hawai'i (it was purchased and the inhabitants were brutally supressed,
now;
> where are the original inhabitants?), China (guess who pulled the rug on
> Chang Kai Shek?)/Taiwan, Iraq (propped up by the US, never to be
forgotten),
> the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan - later emerged as the Taliban-regime (guess
> who supported Osama bin Laden? the CIA).

Many of the above were certainly not democracies when the USA intervened.
In
many cases, the USA can't be given primary responsibility for screwing the
place up. China was wrecked by the Japanese, for example.

I don't doubt that the CIA sometimes subverted democracies to allow
US-friendly military dictatorships into power. That isn't all they did
though. South America has moved in great part from brutal, corrupt military
dictatorships to unstable, corrupt, fragile democracies in the last twenty
years. If America is to be blamed for overthrowing Allende, they should get
some credit for the good, or rather, less bad state of things now.

J/

SOTW: "How Death Comes" - Mediaeval Baebes

Westprog

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 8:28:59 AM2/19/03
to

"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message

news:so955vcn0ooje1t6f...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh Chris Hedley:
..


> >Is there some sort of international convention which demands that
> >countries run by dictatorships _must_ be named along the lines of
> >"The People's Free Republic Of", "The Democratic Republic Of",
> >"Col. Dethwobbler's Really Nice, Free and Not At All Repressive
> >Utopia Of" etc?

> Probably the same one that demands the United Kingdom be riven


> throughout its history by separatist elements.

Unlike er... let me see... Japan? That's all I can think of now, but there
must be others.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 8:34:24 AM2/19/03
to
On 19 Feb 2003 13:28:59 GMT, "Westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Is there some sort of international convention which demands that
>> >countries run by dictatorships _must_ be named along the lines of
>> >"The People's Free Republic Of", "The Democratic Republic Of",
>> >"Col. Dethwobbler's Really Nice, Free and Not At All Repressive
>> >Utopia Of" etc?
>
>> Probably the same one that demands the United Kingdom be riven
>> throughout its history by separatist elements.
>
>Unlike er... let me see... Japan? That's all I can think of now, but there
>must be others.

Or perhaps the same factor that demands Ireland be called Ireland
despite not being Ireland.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 8:37:00 AM2/19/03
to
On 19 Feb 2003 13:28:03 GMT, "Westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Many of the above were certainly not democracies when the USA intervened.
>In
>many cases, the USA can't be given primary responsibility for screwing the
>place up. China was wrecked by the Japanese, for example.

Followed by those well-known American imperialists, Chiang and Mao.
Not to forget the support given to by the Americans to the brutal
Stalinist regime of North Vietnam .

Chris Hedley

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 9:31:40 AM2/19/03
to
According to The Revolution Will Not Be Televised <occu...@bonkers.net>:

> Just as well, I think you should strenuously object to being called
> something as prejudicial and offensive as "northern maggot", you soft
> southern poof.

I didn't say that there wouldn't be an ensuing escalation of hostilities.

> Brought to you from darkest Oxfordshire....

Well, the missus is from Oxfordshire so that's where we're staying. At
least it's not M25sville.

Fr. Des

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 10:01:40 AM2/19/03
to

I do give credit where it is due. During the Clinton years, US foreign
policy in Latin America did change for the better. The place is still a
mess
but some of that mess was created by the years of dictatorships. What happened
in Chile especially, was outrageous. I know there was a cold war but
"disappearing" people just because they were university lecturers gives
me the creeps and I take it very personally.

Fr. Des

Westprog

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 10:17:49 AM2/19/03
to

"Fr. Des" <fath...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3e539c54$1...@muppet.boards.ie...

> "Westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:
..


> I do give credit where it is due. During the Clinton years, US foreign
> policy in Latin America did change for the better. The place is still
a
> mess but some of that mess was created by the years of dictatorships.

In fact democratisation was under way long before Clinton. I don't know if
it started under Carter but it certainly continued under Reagan and Bush(1).

There's a case that much of the mess happened under democracy. Argentina's

disaster was caused by traditional democratic pandering to the electorate

without thought of the consequences. The dictatorships tended to do even
worse though.

> What happened
> in Chile especially, was outrageous. I know there was a cold war but
> "disappearing" people just because they were university lecturers gives
> me the creeps and I take it very personally.

I can see the objection, in theory.

docaay

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 1:07:48 PM2/19/03
to
"Fr. Des" wrote:
>
> I do give credit where it is due. During the Clinton years, US foreign
> policy in Latin America did change for the better. The place is still a
> mess
> but some of that mess was created by the years of dictatorships. What happened
> in Chile especially, was outrageous. I know there was a cold war but
> "disappearing" people just because they were university lecturers gives
> me the creeps and I take it very personally.
>
> Fr. Des

They haven't found you yet, Des?

Doc

KateH

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 1:21:43 PM2/19/03
to
It's a little crowded on that mountain....as it is.
KateH


Ergoge the Niffirg

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 2:56:27 PM2/19/03
to
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:22:50 -0000, "Howard Beale"
<how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote:

>
>Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
>news:so955vcn0ooje1t6f...@4ax.com...
>> Scríobh Chris Hedley:
>>
>> >According to Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com>:
>> >> The Democratic Republic of?
>>
>> IIRC, and I'm sure the academics of the newsgroup will back me on
>> this, the DDR was the bit the Americans *didn't* invade.
>
>What were they diong in Berlin, then?
>

Berlin was decided into four zones, the Russian, the French, the
British and the American zones. It was decided that way as part of the
settlement at the end of the war.
>

--
Egoreg
Never ask a Donegal man to translate for you

Chris Hedley

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 3:01:08 PM2/19/03
to
According to Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir>:
> Us unofficial moderators must be made of sterner stuff.

I can't help feeling that reeks of grandiosity somewhat; any effort
that's made to police unacceptable behaviour is admirable, but I can't
help feeling that the motive behind this one is less altruistic. It's
hardly the first time someone's been made out to look like a wanker by
taking some random comment out of context, after all, and I'm a bit
tired of the smug, sanctimonious posturing.

Let me make my position clear: if anyone's been offended by anything
I've said, please accept my apologies; my remarks are generally meant
in good humour and no true harm is intended. I doubt if I'll be
afforded the same slack by certain people who make it their business
to offend in their slickly acceptable manner, to whom I shall simply
say "fuck off" if they wish to pursue this one. Frankly I'm too ill
to get embroiled in dealing with this sort of crap, and if that means
that I have to bow out once and for all then I hope that makes you
happy.

Chris Hedley

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 3:50:49 PM2/19/03
to
According to Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir>:
> Twasn't meant to be Chris. It was just a wee sideways swipe at Gavin,
> who's assigned the role to me.

Sorry. I think I left my sense of humour switched off today and have
been feeling a little oversensitive.

Chesney Christ

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 3:48:21 PM2/19/03
to
A certain Westprog, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :

>Many of the above were certainly not democracies when the USA intervened.

The USA isn't a democracy.

Let's invade it.

--
George H.W. Bush, as Presidential Nominee for the Republican party;
1987-AUG-27: "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as
citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation
under God."

Chesney Christ

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 3:51:23 PM2/19/03
to
A certain The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, of soc.culture.irish
"fame", writes :

>On 19 Feb 2003 13:28:03 GMT, "Westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Many of the above were certainly not democracies when the USA intervened.
>>In
>>many cases, the USA can't be given primary responsibility for screwing the
>>place up. China was wrecked by the Japanese, for example.
>
>Followed by those well-known American imperialists, Chiang and Mao.

The communists that don't need an embargo because they are okay really,
mainly because of the hundreds of millions of hungry consumers behind
their lines. I'm sure Castro would be pleased with such a tolerant
approach.

>But, first, want speed.

[..] where the hell do you get this crazy stuff ? :)

unki

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 3:52:57 PM2/19/03
to

There is about as much chance in the so called 'Rebel County' of a revolution
as Charlie Haughey enjoying a modest lifestyle.
Sir Roy Keane and Lord Denis Irwin - two steadfast defenders of Albion culture
and commerce with Cork accents.

The only thing Des has to worry about is being chased during the Tivoli Fox
Hunt so they can upholster a sofa that the local GAA club using his arsehairs.


KateH

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 4:22:34 PM2/19/03
to
"Chris Hedley" wrote ...
> According to Féachadóir

> > Twasn't meant to be Chris. It was just a wee sideways swipe at Gavin,
> > who's assigned the role to me.
>
> Sorry. I think I left my sense of humour switched off today

A dangerous thing to do........ever.
Kate(you risk-taker, you)H :)


KateH

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 4:24:09 PM2/19/03
to
"Chesney Christ" wrote com...

> A certain Westprog, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
> >Many of the above were certainly not democracies when the USA intervened.
>
> The USA isn't a democracy.
> Let's invade it.

Again?!
KateH


Chris Hedley

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 4:37:11 PM2/19/03
to
According to Donn <e.@.c.h.u.i.s.c.e.e.a.l.a.i.o.n.t.a>:
> Being a lifelong target of critical humour can't be wearying and isolating
> for gays, but having a predjudice contradicted once in a blue moon calls
> instantly for an aggrieved handicap card to be played?

I've already apologised for any affront, however cackhandedly, as well
as for going off on one toward Ger; and I mean it. But let's not play
off one accusation of prejudice against another.

Chris Hedley

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 4:47:15 PM2/19/03
to
According to KateH <hock...@innw.net>:

> A dangerous thing to do........ever.
> Kate(you risk-taker, you)H :)

Dangerous? Probably. Risk-taker? Well, certainly rather ill-advised! :o

Howard Beale

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Feb 19, 2003, 4:48:57 PM2/19/03
to

Ergoge the Niffirg <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
news:h8o75vgphqo1cbtau...@4ax.com...

So?


--
Howard Beale

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"


Howard Beale

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 4:48:56 PM2/19/03
to

Chesney Christ <thegreat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZH2IaaNV...@ntlworld.com...

> A certain Westprog, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
> >Many of the above were certainly not democracies when the USA intervened.
>
> The USA isn't a democracy.
>
> Let's invade it.

We already did.

Me again.

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 7:41:21 PM2/19/03
to

Aemon offered this gem...


> >Got a site for that?

> http://www.elections.org.nz/elections/esyst/govt_elect.html

> Is that what you're looking for or are you wanting an independant
> analysis?


That'll do. Why is it better than STV PR?


Paul...


> Aemon

--

plinehan__AT__yahoo__dot__com

I would ask that those replying to this (or any other post on usenet)
please reply *_INLINE_*. It makes replies much easier to read and is
a small courtesy towards those who wish to profit from your insight
and wisdom.

Me again.

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 7:41:23 PM2/19/03
to

unki offered this gem...


> The only thing Des has to worry about is being chased during the Tivoli Fox
> Hunt so they can upholster a sofa that the local GAA club using his arsehairs.


Darlink, Cork arsehairs are zooo last year. Riiiley!


Paul...

Paul Carr

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 8:15:31 PM2/19/03
to

"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" <occu...@bonkers.net> wrote in
message news:3e53875e...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...

> On 19 Feb 2003 13:28:59 GMT, "Westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >Is there some sort of international convention which demands that
> >> >countries run by dictatorships _must_ be named along the lines of
> >> >"The People's Free Republic Of", "The Democratic Republic Of",
> >> >"Col. Dethwobbler's Really Nice, Free and Not At All Repressive
> >> >Utopia Of" etc?
> >
> >> Probably the same one that demands the United Kingdom be riven
> >> throughout its history by separatist elements.
> >
> >Unlike er... let me see... Japan? That's all I can think of now, but
there
> >must be others.
>
> Or perhaps the same factor that demands Ireland be called Ireland
> despite not being Ireland.

It's silly I agree. Generally, when posting, I would type Republic of
Ireland initially, and then, as the post progressed, I revert to Ireland (in
the understanding that ye know what I mean)

Paul Carr

Paul Carr

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 8:20:11 PM2/19/03
to

"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:36u45vc3h07jcn3j6...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh mul:

>
> >Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in
the
> >last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
>
> Germany

Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria (well the extreme
western part of it). As a result of the "Cold War", which many people can
reasonably argue was also won by the United States, plenty of "Eastern"
European countries, free of Soviet influence (the Soviet Union being the
defeated party to America's victor), became democracies, including Poland,
Czech, Hungary, Slovenia, these, among others, will be joining the European
Union in 2004.

Paul Carr

Paul Carr

unread,
Feb 19, 2003, 9:42:38 PM2/19/03
to

"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:tje55vsmm6uph1he8...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh Féachadóir:
> >Scríobh John Tibbs:

> >
> >>"mul" <ecobag_...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:<nls4a.10331$V6.1...@news.indigo.ie>...
> >>> Im trying very hard to think of one country the Americans invaded in
the
> >>> last 100 years,and left behind them a demoracy ?
> >>> I can think of a few demoratic countrys that the Americans turned
into
> >>> dictatorships.
> >>> Mul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Name 'em!
> >
> >Chile?
>
> BTW, anyone catch the RTÉ documentary on the attempted coup against
> President Chavez on True Lives this evening?
>
> Venezuelans have iron balls.

And State TV. Just as well the technicians were able to get the channel up
and running again in order to enable the deposed Chavez government to stage
a counter-coup.

Paul Carr

Viva La Technicians - don't know the Spanish for Technicians :-(