Irish Language Pronunciation/Translation of Names
Sam Cochran
I have learned that the Irish word for the name "Kent" is "Caennt" (if
memory serves).
I think a listing of the Irish, or Scotts Gaelic to English
translations of proper names would be very useful. I persume it
doesn't exist. If I am wrong, please say where the reference can be
found.
The reason this would be of value is because of the problems
encountered in tracing geneology. Official records are sometimes
boched, names distorted and illegible. Knowledge of what a name
might be would make the deciphering at least possible and perhaps
point a weary researcher in the right direction.
Some might have entered the U.S. using the correct Irish spelling of
their name which was later changed to something else.
Whaddaya say? Translate a name today.
Start with mine?
Sam Cochran
Neil Alasdair McEwan
Sam Cochran (aeo...@earthlinkXSPAM.net) wrote:
: Whaddaya say? Translate a name today.
: Start with mine?
I think the Irish is something like "Cogaran" (I don't have the exact
version in front of me) and means "whisperer" or "confidante".
le meas
Neil
--
Neil Alasdair McEwan
Sam Cochran (aeo...@earthlinkXSPAM.net) wrote:
: I think a listing of the Irish, or Scotts Gaelic to English
: translations of proper names would be very useful. I persume it
: doesn't exist. If I am wrong, please say where the reference can be
: found.
Do you mean surnames? I have lots of these at hand -- I found them in
"a Gaelic Lexicon for Finnegans Wake" by Brendan O Hehir. The accents on
the Irish names are missing, unfortunately.
Irish English meaning: "son of..."
----- ------- --------------------
O Donnghaile = O' Donnelly "staunch-valour"
O Cuileain = Cullen "puppy"
O Ceallaigh = Kelly "contention"
O Murchadha = Murphy "sea-warrior"
O Laoghaire = O' Leary "calf-keeper"
Colman = Coleman "little dove"
Mac Fhlannchadha = Clancy "ruddy warrior"
MacAonghusa = Hennessey
Guinness "Angus"
O Tuathail = O' Toole "people-mighty"
Ui Shuileabhain = O' Sullivan "black-eyed"
O Gallchobhair = Gallagher "foreign help"
MacGiolla Bhrighde = McBride "servant of Brigid"
O hOgain = Hogan "youth"
There's a whole lot more of these but I can't be bothered to post them
all at the moment -- I will do so later if anyone's interested. I have a
list of Irish place-names and English-equivalents as well.
yrs
Neil
Enda Rice
Neil Alasdair McEwan wrote:
>
[snipage]
> them
> all at the moment -- I will do so later if anyone's interested. I
> have a
> list of Irish place-names and English-equivalents as well.
>
There was a small discussion about this a few weeks ago, in
which I asked about the words Rath, Lios and Dun, which are
common in Irish place names. They are all fortifications
of different sorts, but I was wondering what exactly was
the difference between them? (One of them involves a moat, I
believe)
any ideas?
Enda
--
E-mail to e.r...@qub.ac.uk
Neil Alasdair McEwan
Enda Rice (en...@ss5.nitc.qub.ac.uk) wrote:
: There was a small discussion about this a few weeks ago, in
: which I asked about the words Rath, Lios and Dun, which are
: common in Irish place names. They are all fortifications
: of different sorts, but I was wondering what exactly was
: the difference between them? (One of them involves a moat, I
: believe)
From the "Dineen" Irish dictionary:
Ráth [f.], a "rath", a kind of mound common in Ireland; an artificial
mound; a barrow; a prince's seat; the Rath is more common in the East of
Ireland, the "lios" in the West; "ráth" is common in place names, as Ráth
Luirc, "Charleville"; An Rath Mhór, "Rathmore"; Lios na Ráithe Móire, "the
lios or fort at Rathmore.
Lios [m.], a house, fort with circular moat, (earthen) fort, "lios", rath,
habitation, fortified place, court, fort.
Dún [m.], a fort, a fortress, castle, royal residence, fortified mansion.
... In other words they seem to be generally similar except for the
dialect variation mentioned above.
slainte
Neil
--
Fiona Hyland
> I think a listing of the Irish, or Scotts Gaelic to English
> translations of proper names would be very useful. I persume it
> The reason this would be of value is because of the problems
> encountered in tracing geneology. Official records are sometimes
> boched, names distorted and illegible. Knowledge of what a name
> might be would make the deciphering at least possible and perhaps
> point a weary researcher in the right direction.
I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for, but my Web site has
a section on Names (first names). It includes translations into English
and alternate spellings of Irish names, which seems to be what you want.
The URL is below (in my sig.)
all the best, Fiona
**********************************************
Fiona Hyland
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/fch2/
Sam Cochran
In article <6g9v4c$33b$1...@News.Dal.Ca>, ap...@chebucto.ns.ca (Neil
Alasdair McEwan) writes:
> Do you mean surnames?
Yes, thanks.
What is the Irish translation for these names, at least those which
apply?
My grandparents were:
Brown - Scotts Protestant,
Ward - Belfast Catholic,
Cochran - Ulster-Scotts Protestant ("Cogaran" means "whisperer" or
"confidante")
Blackman - errr English I believe.
My wife's grandparents were:
McBride - Londonderry Catholic, (MacGiolla Bhrighde = "servant of
Brigid")
Hughes - Longford Catholic (previously Welsh),
Jenkins - Welsh Protestant
Lovett - English Protestant
For clarity let me say that these people are at least one or two
generations off the boat, some MUCH earlier.
Sam
>yrs
>
>Neil
Neil Alasdair McEwan
Sam Cochran (aeo...@earthlinkXSPAM.net) wrote:
: What is the Irish translation for these names, at least those which
: apply?
: My grandparents were:
: Brown - Scotts Protestant,
I don't have the translation offhand but some "Browns" are of English
descent whereas in other cases the name comes from a) an anglicization of
Irish O Bruin (or something like that) or b) a direct translation of the
Scots Gaelic name "Donn" which means "brown".
: My wife's grandparents were:
: McBride - Londonderry Catholic, (MacGiolla Bhrighde = "servant of
: Brigid")
I'm a McBride too, whaddya know. Sorry about the rest of the names, I
don't have them on my list.
yrs
Neil
--
Fiona Hyland
> What is the Irish translation for these names, at least those which
> apply?
Sam, I think that many of these names would not have been translated into
Irish for the families involved, particularly the Ulster families of
British origin. I'll tell you what MacLysaght ("The Surnames of Ireland",
excellent book) says about some of the other ones:
> Ward - Belfast Catholic, <--- Mac an Bhaird, son of the Bard (Probably
Donegal)
> McBride - Londonderry Catholic, (MacGiolla Bhrighde = "servant of
> Brigid")
> Hughes (previously Welsh), <--- English, if Irish then O hAodha
(The trend tended to be Anglicisations of Gaelic names, not so much
Gaelicisations of Anglo names; there had been gaelicisations of Norman
names earlier, though)
Owen Roe
Irish Ward. Mac a' bháird (pron. macaward) son of the bard.
*************************************************
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Sam Cochran
In article <fch2-07049...@cu-dialup-2208.cit.cornell.edu>,
fc...@cornell.edu (Fiona Hyland) writes:
>(The trend tended to be Anglicisations of Gaelic names, not so much
>Gaelicisations of Anglo names; there had been gaelicisations of Norman
>names earlier, though)
Ahhh... That make a lot of sense and in large part answers the
question I was going to ask which was: how do you tell which names are
rooted in the ancient gaelic and which are not? I suspose that
question now becomes: how can you tell if a name is Anglicised Gaelic
or Gaelicized Norman. I was looking for an easy answer, like most
Welsh names end in "s." I think the answer is that you just gotta
know, or have a good reference eh?
I checked your site, BTW. It is an impressive resource. I can tell
you have put a lot of effort into it.
Thanks,
Sam
> all the best, Fiona
>
Fiona Hyland
> >(The trend tended to be Anglicisations of Gaelic names, not so much
> >Gaelicisations of Anglo names; there had been gaelicisations of Norman
> Ahhh... That make a lot of sense and in large part answers the
> question I was going to ask which was: how do you tell which names are
> rooted in the ancient gaelic and which are not? I suspose that
> question now becomes: how can you tell if a name is Anglicised Gaelic
> or Gaelicized Norman. I was looking for an easy answer, like most
> Welsh names end in "s." I think the answer is that you just gotta
> know, or have a good reference eh?
A great reference is MacLysaght, "The Surnames of Ireland"- I have the
one volume paperback, but there are larger multi-volume versions. It's
published by Irish Academic Press; I think amazon.com has it (cost me six
irish pounds).
Mostly you just know (or look up) what names are Norman, they are then
gaelicised, the rest are gaelic (anglicised or not) unless they are from
somewhere else!!! Simple eh?
all the best, Fiona
*********************************************
Fiona Hyland fc...@cornell.edu
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/fch2/
phi9...@studserv.uni-leipzig.de
Hello everybody,
my name is Manuela, and I am writing from Germany. I have been following
the
various topics all dealing with Ireland. As I studied there, I developed
an
interest in the country, and I am thinking of doing a project on literary
or other descriptions of Irish women in times of exodus and later for
scientific purposes (say world travellers). However, it is virtually
impossible to gather any
information, let alone, being based in Germany. Maybe some of you have
come
into contact with similar topics and can tell me whether the field has
been greatly dealt with already, and maybe even whether there are any key
books that I should get.
Thank you, M.