Hazrat-e Ali(A)
Soheila Amiri
Hi Friends,
I have been presented with the opportunity and honor of
speaking about Hazrat-e Ali(A) to a group of teen agers
who will more than likely hear about and of him for the
first time. In light of that I would like to be absolutely
correct on the info. I end up presenting to them. Is
there anyone who can direct me to a web site where
hoepfully accurate accounts of his life and words are
maintained? Is an English version of "Nahj-ol-balagheh"
online anywhere?
In addition, I would be very interested to hear your input
on how you would organize such a presentation and what
topics you would concentrate on (the age range of the
audience is between 9-18). In particular. since my memory
of the events surrounding the martyrdom of Hazrat-e Ali(A)
is somewhat sketchy, if you are able to recount events
accurately, please kindly drop me a line.
I appreciate an e-mail on follow-ups posted here since
as best as I try I can't always check the news group
and receive all the postings.
Thank you very much in advance.
Soheila
P.S. If you were to summarize his teachings in a simple
sentence, what would it be?
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani)
What ever you do Soheila Khanoom, make sure you tell the children the fact
that there are also two sides to every story. Although Iranains make an
idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status. The fact
is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif. As a matter of
fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to his own hands. It is
said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800 freedom fighters by his own
hands.
Bot parast nabAshid
Yek Irani
Soheila Amiri <sam...@encore.com> wrote in article
<E4u3s...@encore.com>...
qizilbash
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) <YekI...@ee.net> wrote:
: What ever you do Soheila Khanoom, make sure you tell the children the fact
: that there are also two sides to every story. Although Iranains make an
: idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status. The fact
: is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif. As a matter of
: fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to his own hands. It is
: said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800 freedom fighters by his own
: hands.
: Bot parast nabAshid
: Yek Irani
Oh NO! this is the same guy that keeps on promising not to insult other
religions.
Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
It seems that your opinion does not concord with Rumi or Hafez or Hatef or
Jaami or Mulla Sadra or any IMPORTANT IRANIAN Figures.
THere is no aliollahis in Iran, they are around Syria, you must prove that
there is such a thing as Aliollahi in Iran.
Yes Ali(AS) gave the soul of 800 people or more asecond chance by killing
them, perhaps their soul will have another chance.
Where is the facts? you just can't say "the facts are".
Bring the facts and all rip you apart with proof and smash your brains
out.
qizilbash
Soheila Amiri <sam...@encore.com> wrote:(good stuff)
Salam alaykom
checkout http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~yusufali/islam
You will find many resources on your topic.
Also you can't summarize his teaching,
"ganjayesh bahr dar saboo momken nist!"
Khoda Hafez
blue
this is from a long time ago (kelase talimate dini), so its
accuracy is not absolute:
Ali son of Abi-Talib was born in Mecca and was the first man to
convert to Islam - Muhammad's wife, Khadijeh, being the first
woman.
He married Muhammad's daughter, Fatemeh, and was father to
Hossein, Hassan and Zeinab, among others.
He was, as reported, one the shrewdest, most learned and most
courageous of Islamic war commanders. He was purported to be
instrumental in securing Muslims' victory in battles of Ohod,
Khandaq and Kheibar.
He earned the title of 'zolfaqar' apparently for the fact that
he was the first to step forward in battles.
Ali was at the side of Muhammad as he entered Mecca to overthrow
the idols worshipped by Meccans.
His sworn enemy was Moawiyeh, who fought Ali over caliphate and
finally succeeded in side-lining Ali.
Ali was stabbed by Ibn-Moljam on 19th of Ramadan and died on
21st of Ramadan.
His major legacy was the branching of Islam into two factions,
Shiites and Sunnis, although he was steadfastly against it.
Ali's followers believed that Muhammad had appointed Ali to
succeed as Muslims' sole leader. Those against Ali wanted as
Muhammad's father-in-law Abu-Bakr to succeed Muhammad. The
fight resulted in the division of Islam into two branches.
Ali wrote Nahj-il-balaqe as his prescription on how to live a
righteous life.
Interestingly, many of our leftist brothers and sisters such
Mujahedeen and other guerrilla movements attribute their
militancy to Ali since he lived a very Spartan life, avoided
luxury and did not hesitate to attack the enemy when needed.
Ghassem
The following web page has a picture of Hazrat-e Ali
and nothing else. If you are using Internet Explorer 3.0
right-click on the picture and then choose save as....
to save the picture some where on your hard drive.
_____________________________________
http://globale.net/~heritage/pictures/alitajk2.html
______________________________________
The Contents of Nahj al Balaghah
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nahj al-balaghah comprises various issues that cover major problems of
metaphysics, theology, fiqh, tafsir, hadith, prophetology, imamate, ethics,
social philosophy, history, politics, administration, civics, science,
rhetoric, poetry, literature, etc. Most of the discussions about various
theological issues and philosophical notions in Islam have their origin in
this very book. Similarly, all the controversies regarding socio-political
problems in the Muslim society and state left their echo in Nahj
al-balaghah,
or rather those were inspired from the utterances of al-lmam 'Ali (as). The
book not only reflects the spirit of early Islam and the teachings of
the......
......>>>>>> click on the link to read the rest >>>>>>>>
______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/contents.htm
_______________________________________________
Then, here is the link for complete info and a text search on Nahjul
Balagha like the following.
_____________________________
>>>> http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/
____________________________
Sermons, Letters, and Sayings of Ameer al-Mu'mineen, the Commander of the
Faithful, Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Search the text:
Background Information
•The Compiler of Nahj al Balagha, Syed al Radi
•Life and Lineage
•Personality and Schooling •Works
•The Sources of Nahj al Balagha
•The Contents of Nahj al Balagha
•The Commentaries on Nahj al Balagha
•Misconceptions about Nahj al Balagha
•Source
Alternative Sources of the Sermons
•Sermon by Sermon references to well-known Islamic texts
•Bibliography for the Sermon by Sermon references
•Download an MS Word 6.0 file that contains both the Sermon by Sermon
References and the Bibliography for those references.
Sermons
Download Sermons 1-239 with embedded font that preserves special
transliterated characters (MS Word 6.0). Or, view the sermons below.
•1. Praise belongs to God, Whose Glory lies beyond ...
•2. I praise Him, seeking the completion of His bounty...
•3. By God, so and so (Ibn Abi Quhafah)....
•4............
•5..........
.
____________________________________________
Soheila Amiri <sam...@encore.com> wrote in article
<E4u3s...@encore.com>...
>
> Hi Friends,
>
> I have been presented with the opportunity and honor of
> speaking about Hazrat-e Ali(A) to a group of teen agers
> who will more than likely hear about and of him for the
> first time. In light of that I would like to be absolutely
Yaghout Nourani
Soheila Amiri (sam...@encore.com) wrote:
[DFB]
: P.S. If you were to summarize his teachings in a simple
: sentence, what would it be?
salAm Soheila,
One of his saying that I like a lot is:
"mard rA be hagh mishenAsy yA hagh rA be mard"
--
Yaghout
Anonymous
In article <5crhp6$2...@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> you write:
>From: qizilbash <qizl...@ally.ios.com>
>Subject: Re: Hazrat-e Ali(A)
>Date: 31 Jan 1997 01:27:02 GMT
>: Bot parast nabAshid
>: Yek Irani
Or shut the fuck up!!!
(sorry, I had to finish your secntence for him!) :)
Saeed Kharazi
qizilbash <qizl...@ally.ios.com>
>Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) <YekI...@ee.net> wrote:
>: What ever you do Soheila Khanoom, make sure you tell the children the
fact
>: that there are also two sides to every story. Although Iranains make an
>: idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status. The
fact
>: is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif. As a matter
of
>: fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to his own hands. It is
>: said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800 freedom fighters by his
own
>: hands.
>
>: Bot parast nabAshid
>
>: Yek Irani
>
>Oh NO! this is the same guy that keeps on promising not to insult other
>religions.
>
>Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
>just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
That would make a stupid person. Specially sincce I did not catagorize all
Moslems this or that or anything. What I said does not even involve Islam
since no where in the Quoran is Ali mentioned. Ali is a BOT only for
Iranians. What you say above about all Zartoshtis is a different statement.
I am talking about a person, you are talking about all followers of a
religion.
>It seems that your opinion does not concord with Rumi or Hafez or Hatef or
>Jaami or Mulla Sadra or any IMPORTANT IRANIAN Figures.
You forgot to mention Kasravee. Read a book called Shiegaree.
>THere is no aliollahis in Iran, they are around Syria, you must prove that
>there is such a thing as Aliollahi in Iran.
Obviously you have not been to KirmanshAh. Some of the population of many
Kurdish cities are AliAlAhi.
>Yes Ali(AS) gave the soul of 800 people or more asecond chance by killing
>them, perhaps their soul will have another chance.
What a joke. God is the only one who should have the final say so on
people's salvation. This is why you can't argue with AKhoonds since they
always think their voice is voice of God. Blind faith make the most
spritual person an Ahriman worshiper. To worship god one must look at all
human beings as human being and not idols. You obviously have foudn
yourself an idol in Ali
>is the facts? you just can't say "the facts are".
>Bring the facts and all rip you apart with proof and smash your brains
>out.
Relax aghA get a nice can of Pepsi and take a deep breath, making life
threats over the Internet is a federal crime. Amazing how bot Parast people
through out history have gotten so upset when thier bot was questioned.
KhodA parast bAshid, Bot Parast nabAshid
Yek Irani
Arash
qizilbash wrote:
>
> Oh NO! this is the same guy that keeps on promising not to insult other
> religions.
>
> Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
> just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
>
> It seems that your opinion does not concord with Rumi or Hafez or Hatef or
> Jaami or Mulla Sadra or any IMPORTANT IRANIAN Figures.
> THere is no aliollahis in Iran, they are around Syria, you must prove that
> there is such a thing as Aliollahi in Iran.
Actually there are Aliollahis in Iran. I had seen and knew some of them. One of
our naighbors (the whole family) were aliollahis. We usually did not talk about
religous matters but they did say they were aliollahis, and also stressed that
they did not consider Ali as God. Their saying was that: "mA Ali rA khodA
nemidAnim, az khodA jodA nemidAnim" They were moslems like other people, said the
same prayers and went to mosques like others, the only difference was they
considered Hazrate Ali as the most supreme source for enlightment and inspiration.
All of the Aliollahis I and my family knew were very nice people.
Arash
G-man
Saeed Kharazi wrote:
>
> qizilbash <qizl...@ally.ios.com>
>
> >Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) <YekI...@ee.net> wrote:
> >: idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status.
> >: The fact is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif.
> >: As a matter of fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to
> >: his own hands. It is said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800
> >: freedom fighters by his own hands.
> >Oh NO! this is the same guy that keeps on promising not to insult other
> >religions.
> >
> >Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
> >just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
> That would make a stupid person. Specially sincce I did not
> catagorize all Moslems this or that or anything. What I said
> does not even involve Islam since no where in the Quoran is Ali
> mentioned. Ali is a BOT only for Iranians. What you say above about
> all Zartoshtis is a different statement. I am talking about a person,
> you are talking about all followers of a religion.
Hazrateh Ali is the cornerstone of Shiism. You can not seperate
Shiism from Ali or Ali from Shiism. It is meaningless to say "I
respect Shiites' beliefs, but do not respect Ali"! That is like saying
"I respect Christanity, but not the decipels of Jesus like John
and Paul", and to a true Chirstian, such statement would be no
different from an outright insult of Jesus himself, and the whole
Christianity as a whole!
To millions of Shiites, disrespecting Ali is equal to disrespecting
Mohammad and Islam. Therefore, your reasoning above sounds totally
bogus to a Shiite muslim. As such, you can not expect your insult,
no matter how you try to justify or sugarcoat it, to go unanswered.
I am not saying you can not, or should not express your feelings
against Shiism. No! However, if you do, you should expect the same
in return without crying foul. What goes around, comes around!
If there is one thing I have learned in my lifetime is not to
question people's religious beliefs, convictions, idols, or symbols.
It does nothing but to antagonize them, and if I challenge them on
it, I should expect fully to become the target of antagonistic remarks
about my own beliefs in return.
G-man
Anvil ?
In article <5crhp6$2...@nnrp4.farm.idt.net>, qizilbash
<qizl...@ally.ios.com> wrote:
> : Yek Irani
>
> Oh NO! this is the same guy that keeps on promising not to insult other
> religions.
>
>
> Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
> just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
>
> It seems that your opinion does not concord with Rumi or Hafez or Hatef or
> Jaami or Mulla Sadra or any IMPORTANT IRANIAN Figures.
> THere is no aliollahis in Iran, they are around Syria, you must prove that
> there is such a thing as Aliollahi in Iran.
> Yes Ali(AS) gave the soul of 800 people or more asecond chance by killing
> them, perhaps their soul will have another chance.
>
> Where is the facts? you just can't say "the facts are".
>
> Bring the facts and all rip you apart with proof and smash your brains
> out.
Boro baba............To ham delet khosheh ba in ya ali ya ali.... It
seems that all this ali baba has thought you is hostilities.... Smash
one's brain out...???? Is that the way ali baba has thought you to deal
with people with whom you disagree....??? Vagheankeh delet khosheh....
Most important Iranian....??? Mageh in ali baba joon arab nabood....???
Hala shod irani...?? Shoma, bad tar az Nixon, tarikh ro hame avaz mikhahin
bekonin....??
> Yes Ali(AS) gave the soul of 800 people or more asecond chance by killing
> them, perhaps their soul will have another chance.
Khoba pass ba in hessab...Oon babyiham keh zad passeh kaleyeh ali baba,
Souleh ali bab khan ro behesh yeh chanceh digeh mikhast bedeh...???
Vaghean keh delet khosheh............!!!!!!!
--
NBT , 2L
blue
BFMHML
Yek Irani wrote:
> What ever you do Soheila Khanoom, make sure you tell the children the f=
act
> that there are also two sides to every story. Although Iranains make an=
> idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status. The =
fact
> is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif. As a matte=
r of
> fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to his own hands. It is=
> said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800 freedom fighters by his =
own
> hands.
> =
> Bot parast nabAshid
> =
> Yek Irani
> _________
=
Just when i was happy to see Soheila's info request about MolA Ali (A)
in this holy month, i once again had the misfortune of coming across Yek
Irani's worthless point of view. This is the second time. As a muslim
and as a person who highly respects and desperately tries to follow the
teachings of Ali (A), i am offended like the way you have intended it. =
You call yourself a Zartoshti (converted by any chance?) and your deeds
resembles nothing as such. There is no need for me to express my
respect for Zoroastrian religion and the Zartoshtis. But you need to
understand that the religion of Iran is Islam - by any measures. Please
GET that. And don=92t bad mouth the greatest men in Islam. You achieve
nothing that way. At least learn from Faryar, Bahai dBase, and post
articles informing us about Zartosht and His Thoughts. i don=92t mean
second hand notes =93pA-varaghee=94 type you post every once in a while t=
o
re-state you are Zartoshti. Or is it that bad mouthing is one of your
ahrimani traits you have not been able to pAk it? Then try harder. yA
Ali.
=
Respectfully ...... Bahram
qizilbash
Saeed KHARazi <YekI...@ee.net> wrote:
: That would make a stupid person. Specially sincce I did not catagorize all
: Moslems this or that or anything. What I said does not even involve Islam
: since no where in the Quoran is Ali mentioned. Ali is a BOT only for
: Iranians. What you say above about all Zartoshtis is a different statement.
: I am talking about a person, you are talking about all followers of a
: religion.
As I said you insult Ali(AS) and you insult not only all Shias but all
Muslims which dwarf the Zorotrian population of the world by more than 1
billion. I did not say anything about Zardoshtis! read my statement
CLEARLY! I said I would be dumb to categorize all Zartoshtis because of an
: You forgot to mention Kasravee. Read a book called Shiegaree.
: Obviously you have not been to KirmanshAh. Some of the population of many
: Kurdish cities are AliAlAhi.
Now ! look!
You are insulting the followers of the Ahl-Haq Order and calling them
AliOllahis! The Ahl-Haq order also dwarfs the Zoroastrian population, it
has followers from Bulgaria to India. It's center is Kirmanshah. Only
nasty outsiders would give it the name AliOllahi.
And they are not Aliollahi. Their believe is Ali(AS) is Mazhar
Allah(Manifestation of God).
.
Actually I have studied the sufi orders in Kurdistan deeply wether they
are Khaksari, Ahl-Haq, Bektashi,Qadiriyeh, Naqshbandiyah. The last PERSON
who you would want to argue againts about the diffrent mystic orders of
Iran is me.
Furthermore read Encyclopedia Islam under the title Ahl-Haq and you will
see that they are not Aliollahis.
They and other sufi orders throughout Iran know Imam Ali(AS) as mazhar Haq
and not Khodavand.
"rava bashad anal-haq az derakhti
chera nabashad rava az nikbakhti?"
furthermore
here is something from their own source:
"Keh chon zateh Haq hamcho Khorshid daan
manoor shavad zareh zareh beh khaan
beh har khaneh tabad konad roshan an
vali khish baashad dar An aseman"
So please stop the utter nonsence, and let us just say
there is such thing as Nusayri and AliOllahi in Iran(although there
isn't). It would be none of your buisness.
: What a joke. God is the only one who should have the final say so on
: people's salvation. This is why you can't argue with AKhoonds since they
: always think their voice is voice of God. Blind faith make the most
: spritual person an Ahriman worshiper. To worship god one must look at all
: human beings as human being and not idols. You obviously have foudn
: yourself an idol in Ali
Again you insult Hazrat Ali(AS).
Now as for his battles , read the poem "az Ali biyamooz ikhlaas amal" from
Rumi. Actually I will type it up tommorow.
His enemy who was under the ground spit on his face and ALi(AS) did not
kill him. And then his enemy's sister wrote a good poem about Ali(AS).
All the wars in Islam were defensive till the end of Muhammad(PBUH&HP)
life.
You will find many lebanese christians and Armenian christians who like
Ali(AS) also. The reason was that these christians were treated with full
respect .
: Relax aghA get a nice can of Pepsi and take a deep breath, making life
: threats over the Internet is a federal crime. Amazing how bot Parast people
: through out history have gotten so upset when thier bot was questioned.
Again all you can do is insult. It's a federal crime? I guess your
protection is the federal government. But I will relax . Because you
will die one day alhbamdullah like the rest of us.
: KhodA parast bAshid, Bot Parast nabAshid
See now this guy accuses me of worshipping Ali(AS).
I ask the good zoroastrians in this newsgroup to tell this guy to shut his
mouth about other faiths. I do not want to get nasty calling other
religion names, because I respect them unless they disrespect the religion
(Islam).
Finally you do not deserve a response anymore , necause your
intelligent is so
low that you compare someone like Rumi and Hafez with someone like
Kasravi.
It is like arguing with a kid in kindergarden.
But I will furthere challenge your 50 Iq on any of the above topic and
disect your argument and smash them with pleasure.
: Yek Irani
You can call yourself "Irani", but your "akhlaaq" is no where close bache
nonor.
Ghassem
boro ey gadA-e meskin dar-e khAneh-e Ali zan
keh negin-e pAdeshAhi dahad az karam gada rA
_________________________________________________
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~yusufali/islam/sayings/saying5.html
__________________________________________________
This link takes you to a web page that has the Sayings of Imam Ali (A.S.).
There are total of 206 sayings, I copied the first 10 as you see them
below
Sayings of Imam Ali (A.S.)
---------------------------
1. During civil disturbance adopt such an attitude that people do not
attach any importance to you - they neither burden you with complicated
affairs, nor try to derive any advantage out of you.
2. He who is greedy is disgraced; he who discloses his hardship will always
be humiliated; he who has no control over his tongue will often have to
face discomfort.
3. Avarice is disgrace; cowardice is a defect; poverty often disables an
intelligent man from arguing his case; a poor man is a stranger in his own
town; misfortune and helplessness are calamities; patience is a kind of
bravery; to sever attachments with the wicked world is the greatest wealth;
piety is the best weapon of defence.
4. Submission to Allah's Will is the best companion; wisdom is the noblest
heritage; theoretical and practical knowledge are the best signs of
distinction; deep thinking will present the clearest picture of every
problem.
5. The mind of a wise man is the safest custody of secrets; cheerfulness is
the key to friendship; patience and forbearance will conceal many defects.
6. A conceited and self-admiring person is disliked by others; charity and
alms are the best remedy for ailments and calamities; one has to account in
the next world for the deeds that he has done in this world.
7. Man is a wonderful creature; he sees through the layers of fat (eyes),
hears through a bone (ears) and speaks through a lump of flesh (tongue).
8. When this world favors somebody, it lends him the attributes, and
surpassing merits of others and when it turns its face away from him it
snatches away even his own excellences and fame.
9. Live amongst people in such a manner that if you die they weep over you
and if you are alive they crave for your company.
10. If you overpower your enemy, then pardon him by way of thankfulness to
Allah, for being able to subdue him.
____________________________________________
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~yusufali/islam/sayings/saying5.html
____________________________________________
> Soheila Amiri <sam...@encore.com> wrote in article
> <E4u3s...@encore.com>...
> >
> > Hi Friends,
> >
> > I have been presented with the opportunity and honor of
> > speaking about Hazrat-e Ali(A) to a group of teen agers
> > who will more than likely hear about and of him for the
> > first time. In light of that I would like to be absolutely
> > correct on the info. I end up presenting to them. Is
> > there anyone who can direct me to a web site where
> > hoepfully accurate accounts of his life and words are
> > maintained? Is an English version of "Nahj-ol-balagheh"
> > online anywhere?
> >
> > In addition, I would be very interested to hear your input
> > on how you would organize such a presentation and what
> > topics you would concentrate on (the age range of the
> > audience is between 9-18). In particular. since my memory
> > of the events surrounding the martyrdom of Hazrat-e Ali(A)
> > is somewhat sketchy, if you are able to recount events
> > accurately, please kindly drop me a line.
> >
> > I appreciate an e-mail on follow-ups posted here since
> > as best as I try I can't always check the news group
> > and receive all the postings.
> >
> > Thank you very much in advance.
> > Soheila
> >
Ghassem
___________________________________
http://www.dircon.co.uk/worldfed/1stimam.htm
___________________________________
This link will take you to a web page that describes The Life of the
Commander of the Faithful
Ali b. Abu Talib (A.S.). I copied these from the bottom part of the web
page.
Imam Ali (as) First in many Fields
----------------------------------
1. He was the only man to be born in the Kabah (The house of God)
2. He was the first to offer homage to the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF)
3. He was the first to offer prayers after the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF)
4. He was the first to offer his services for Jihad.
5. He was the first to receive religious instructions from the Holy Prophet
(PBUH&HF)
6. He was the first to compile and codify the Quran
7. He was the first to be styled as "brother" by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and
on every occasion
8. He was the first to give burial to the Prophet (PBUH&HF)
9. He was the first to offer to sleep in the Prophet's (PBUH&HF) bed on the
night of his emigration to Medina
10. He was the first to be appointed commander in all those battles in
which the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) didnot participate personally
11. The honor of the propagation of the Quranic Sura, "al Bara'at" fell to
Imam Ali's (as) lot
12. He was the only man to be titled as the "Second Aaron" by the Prophet
(PBUH&HF)
13. The honor of owning a house which opened into the courtyard of the
Prophet's (PBUH&HF) mosque was reserved for Imam Ali (as) alone
14. He was the first to have the honor of being nominated by the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) as his succesor, testator and vice regent.
... and many many more
Imam Ali and the Ancient Prophets
-----------------------------------
1. God gave Adam the knowledge of His names, while Ali held the entire
knowledge of the Book of Allah.
2. Adam was married with Eve in the Garden of Paradise, while God married
Imam Ali (as) with Fatima (as) in heaven
3. God styled Noah as a "Grateful Creature" and he was called the Second
Adam, while Imam Ali (as) was styled as "Abu'l Ummah"
4. God made Abraham the "Imam" or the "Leaders of men", while Imam Ali (as)
was the Imam of all creation, men and Jinnis
5. Moses was brought up in the house of Pharoah, while Imam Ali (as) was
brought up in the house of the Prophet (PBUH&HF)
6. Moses threw his rod which became a serpent, whereas Imam Ali (as), while
still in the cradle, cleaved the snake into two
7. Moses name has been mentioned 230 times in the Quran, while Imam Ali's
(as) has been referred to in 300 places in the Quran
... and many many more
The Life of the Commander of the Faithful Ali b. Abu Talib (A.S.).
-----------------------------------------------------------------
(This part gives) an account of the Commander of the faithful, peace be on
him, the first of the Imams of the believers, of the rulers (wulat) of the
Muslims and of God's (appointed) successors in religion after the Apostle
of God, the truthful one and the trusted one, Muhammad b. Abd Allah, the
seal of the Prophets, blessings on him and his pure family. (He was) the
brother of the Apostle of God and his paternal cousin, and his helper
(wazir) in his affair, his son-in- law (being married) to his daughter,
Fatima the chaste, mistress of the women of the universe. (The full name
of) the Commander of the faithful is Ali b. Abi Talib b. Abd al Muttalib b.
Hashim b. Abd Manaf. (He was) the Lord of the testamentary trustees of
authority (wasiyyin), the best of blessing and peace be on him. His kunya
was Abu al-Hasan.
He was born in the Sacred House (i.e. the Kaba) in Mecca on Friday, the
thirteenth day of the month of Rajab, thirty years after the Year of the
Elephant (c.570). Nobody before or after him has ever been born in the
House of God, the Most High. (It was a mark) of him being honoured by God,
the Most High, may His name be exalted, and of his position being dignified
in its greatness.
His mother was Fatima, daughter of Asad b. Hashim b. Abd Manaf, may God be
pleased with her. She was like a mother to the Apostle of God, may God
bless him and his family, and he (the Apostle)
was .................
>>>>>> read the rest by clicking this link
_______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.dircon.co.uk/worldfed/1stimam.htm
_______________________________________________
dari...@ix.netcom.com
> : sentence, what would it be?
>
>
> One of his saying that I like a lot is:
>
> "mard rA be hagh mishenAsy yA hagh rA be mard"
>
> --
> Yaghout
Yaghout djaan, I think you wanted to say something on this
thread and you just did.! :) What?! mard :) hagh!!@#$ :%?
what?! which what &^%$!<<< :) :)???
Perhaps it is all because Soheila was asking for an Ali type
fortune cookie and you just fell for it.
Of course Ali is more than forgiving to bless you both anyway. :)
Dariush.
Anonymous
In article <32F2A1...@pristine.com.tw> you write:
>From: BFMHML <BFM...@pristine.com.tw>
>Subject: Re: Hazrat-e Ali(A)
>Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:49:54 -0800
>You call yourself a Zartoshti (converted by any chance?) and your deeds
>resembles nothing as such. There is no need for me to express my
>respect for Zoroastrian religion and the Zartoshtis. But you need to
>understand that the religion of Iran is Islam - by any measures. Please
>GET that. And don=92t bad mouth the greatest men in Islam. You achieve
>nothing that way. At least learn from Faryar, Bahai dBase, and post
>articles informing us about Zartosht and His Thoughts. i don=92t mean
>second hand notes =93pA-varaghee=94 type you post every once in a while t=
>o
>re-state you are Zartoshti. Or is it that bad mouthing is one of your
>ahrimani traits you have not been able to pAk it? Then try harder. yA
>Ali.
> =
He aint no Zartoshti. The man is total fake. What kind of ablah Zartoshti
father would name his son Saied. The Arabic name. If the asshole is so
discussted with Arabs, at least he could change his name, which is shit
in the mouth for the family evry time they call him!!!!!
Saeed Kharazi
Anonymous <nob...@REPLAY.COM> wrote in article
<5cvoes$j...@basement.replay.com>...
>
> In article <32F2A1...@pristine.com.tw> you write:
> >From: BFMHML <BFM...@pristine.com.tw>
> >Subject: Re: Hazrat-e Ali(A)
> >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:49:54 -0800
>
>
> >You call yourself a Zartoshti (converted by any chance?) and your deeds
Yes, very much so. Your religion is your choice, mine is mine.
> >resembles nothing as such. There is no need for me to express my
> >respect for Zoroastrian religion and the Zartoshtis. But you need to
That is very nice of you since I never said once in this thread that I was
Zartoshti.
> >understand that the religion of Iran is Islam - by any measures. Please
Religion of a country can only be determined when freedom has been give to
people to choose. Until then Iran has no religion since we do not know what
people would choose if they had a choice.
> >GET that. And don=92t bad mouth the greatest men in Islam. You achieve
> >nothing that way. At least learn from Faryar, Bahai dBase, and post
> >articles informing us about Zartosht and His Thoughts. i don=92t mean
I never said I was the spokeperson for Zartoshtis. I have always said that
my religion of choice is Zartoshti. Your religion is your choice and please
don't tell me what my religion is. I don't agree with Frayars propaganda
for Baha'i religion. I don't agree with religious propaganda of any
religion. But if you ask me what religion I consider myself I will tell you
Zartoshti. I have studied most religions and chosen this of my free will. I
say this knowing there are crazy loony tunes out there who are willing to
"blow people's brains" for saying things like that.
> >second hand notes =93pA-varaghee=94 type you post every once in a while
t=
> >o
> >re-state you are Zartoshti. Or is it that bad mouthing is one of your
> >ahrimani traits you have not been able to pAk it? Then try harder. yA
> >Ali.
> > =
This one I have to think about. We all can improve. We all need to get
pAktar.
This
> He aint no Zartoshti. The man is total fake. What kind of ablah Zartoshti
> father would name his son Saied. The Arabic name. If the asshole is so
> discussted with Arabs, at least he could change his name, which is shit
> in the mouth for the family evry time they call him!!!!!
For you coward Anonymous' information. My name is my name because my parent
chose it. I can assure you my children's names are not Arabic. But at
least my parents didn't name me GhooloomrezA.
Yaghout Nourani
dari...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: Yaghout Nourani wrote:
: > Soheila Amiri (sam...@encore.com) wrote:
: > [DFB]
: > : P.S. If you were to summarize his teachings in a simple
: > : sentence, what would it be?
: > salAm Soheila,
: > One of his saying that I like a lot is:
: > "mard rA be hagh mishenAsy yA hagh rA be mard"
: > --
: > Yaghout
: Yaghout djaan, I think you wanted to say something on this
: thread and you just did.! :) What?! mard :) hagh!!@#$ :%?
: what?! which what &^%$!<<< :) :)???
Dear Dariush,
Did you not understand the saying? Try to understand it. Sorry,
from your reply I get the idea that you have not gotten the meaning. If you
have, then it would not matter for you whose saying it is.
On the other hand, maybe you were sarcastic about the word "hagh".
Since, in this todays world, you can hardly see any "hagh" and justice!
: Perhaps it is all because Soheila was asking for an Ali type
: fortune cookie and you just fell for it.
You got to be around a bit longer to know that Soheila is not the
kind you described, and I am not the kind to fall for "fortune
cookie" type questions. :)
: Of course Ali is more than forgiving to bless you both anyway. :)
Are you trying to comfort yourself? :) You are fogiven my child!
: Dariush.
--
Yaghout
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
shah ismaill joon
begozAr sagAn be oe oe kardaneh khod edAmeh dahand!
shenavandeh bAyad hoshyAr bashad!
btw dont you know anything about : " javabeh ablahAn khAmooshist"
or i thought u know how to use "kill file" not that i suggest you about it!
syavash
On 31 Jan 1997, qizilbash wrote:
> Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) <YekI...@ee.net> wrote:
> : What ever you do Soheila Khanoom, make sure you tell the children the fact
> : that there are also two sides to every story. Although Iranains make an
> : idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status. The fact
> : is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif. As a matter of
> : fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to his own hands. It is
> : said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800 freedom fighters by his own
> : hands.
>
> : Bot parast nabAshid
>
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Yaghout Nourani wrote:
>
> dari...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
[earlier transactions deleted]
> : Yaghout djaan, I think you wanted to say something on this
> : thread and you just did.! :) What?! mard :) hagh!!@#$ :%?
> : what?! which what &^%$!<<< :) :)???
>
> Dear Dariush,
>
Dear Yaghout,
> Did you not understand the saying? Try to understand it. Sorry,
> from your reply I get the idea that you have not gotten the meaning. If you
> have, then it would not matter for you whose saying it is.
I *frankly* did not understand your quote :( . Shame on me! :)
> On the other hand, maybe you were sarcastic about the word "hagh".
> Since, in this todays world, you can hardly see any "hagh" and justice!
By no means. I do think "hagh" is still around - and perhaps a bit more
than before (by what I read as history of course! :))
>
> : Perhaps it is all because Soheila was asking for an Ali type
> : fortune cookie and you just fell for it.
>
> You got to be around a bit longer to know that Soheila is not the
> kind you described, and I am not the kind to fall for "fortune
> cookie" type questions. :)
I just shared my feelings about your reply. That, I am sure, does not
imply a description of Soheila or yourself. Had I thought I was doing
otherwise, I myself would have been the King of Fortune Cookie :)
>
> : Of course Ali is more than forgiving to bless you both anyway. :)
>
> Are you trying to comfort yourself? :) You are fogiven my child!
I am obliged to your kindness and sense of humor. :) However such
"ta-aa-rof tekkeh paareh kardan" normally is the work of "Lutee"s,
"Laat"s, "Djaahel"s and "Djavaanmard"s of our plagued culture in which
these artificially dignified pests talk and walk Ali and "hagh" while
their actions in reality are of Shemr and "naa-hagh"! (my apologies to
Shemr!).
Sorry for not being clear enough. I must actually have been showing
my *reflex* to "hagh" related matters depicting the comedy-drama
of "Ghassabeh Djavaanmard"! :)
>
> : Dariush.
>
> --
> Yaghout
My regards,
Dariush.
Anonymous
Saeed Kharazi is Bahai.
There is nothing wrong with that.
---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani)
Coward nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Wrote:
>Saeed Kharazi is Bahai.
>
>There is nothing wrong with that.
No stupid. Baha'is believe in your Arab Religion. To me they are
phillosophically ahead of Moselms but still their roots are the same as you
Arabs. I am a born again Zartoshti. Thanks to your Mullahs there will be
many more people like me in the near future. In a few years AKhoonds will
yearn for the good old Bahai's. Baha'is respect your imposter for a prophet
and your Imams. The new Zartoshti generation of Iranians will know these
ARabs and their Agents now in Iran are the true enemy.
Damon J. Barati
> > >: idol out of Ali and some AliAlAhi people even give him god status.
> > >: The fact is that Ali was no different than Omar, another Arab Khalif.
> > >: As a matter of fact it is said that Ali would take kAfar koshi to
> > >: his own hands. It is said about Ali that somedays he would kill 800
> > >: freedom fighters by his own hands.
>
> > >religions.
> > >
> > >Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
> > >just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
>
> > catagorize all Moslems this or that or anything. What I said
> > does not even involve Islam since no where in the Quoran is Ali
> > mentioned. Ali is a BOT only for Iranians. What you say above about
> > all Zartoshtis is a different statement. I am talking about a person,
> > you are talking about all followers of a religion.
>
> Shiism from Ali or Ali from Shiism. It is meaningless to say "I
> respect Shiites' beliefs, but do not respect Ali"! That is like saying
> "I respect Christanity, but not the decipels of Jesus like John
> and Paul", and to a true Chirstian, such statement would be no
> different from an outright insult of Jesus himself, and the whole
> Christianity as a whole!
>
> To millions of Shiites, disrespecting Ali is equal to disrespecting
> Mohammad and Islam. Therefore, your reasoning above sounds totally
> bogus to a Shiite muslim. As such, you can not expect your insult,
> no matter how you try to justify or sugarcoat it, to go unanswered.
> I am not saying you can not, or should not express your feelings
> against Shiism. No! However, if you do, you should expect the same
> in return without crying foul. What goes around, comes around!
>
> If there is one thing I have learned in my lifetime is not to
> question people's religious beliefs, convictions, idols, or symbols.
> It does nothing but to antagonize them, and if I challenge them on
> it, I should expect fully to become the target of antagonistic remarks
> about my own beliefs in return.
>
> G-man
that should guide one's life and not a man (Hazrat'eh Ali aleheh-salAm,
or Khelafat'eh Omar). Don't both Shi'eh and Suni pray "LA elahah
ela-Allah". There is no other than Allah. Your focus should not be one
the men (The prophet or Imam or Khalifeh), but on Allah.
Sam Ghandchi
I really do not understand why all racist
comments against Arabs on SCI. Actually,
as far as universalism (appealing beyond its national
origin), Islam is a more advanced religion than
Zorastrianism. I have heard that in India,
people who were not from Parsi origin and
wanted to become Zorastrian, were not accepted,
and this was one of the reasons that Zorastrianism
did not grow much, after its followers mainly
moved to India.
Also let's not forget, that many Iranians were frustrated
with Zorastriaism, at the end of Sassanid Dynasty and
they welcomed Islam. That is long before Omar or Ali's
time, I am talking about the kingdom of Khosro-pArviz,
who is said to have had hundreds of wives and had
full support of Zorastrian moobeds. And a little while
before then, Zorastrian moobeds were instrumental in
the murder of Mazdakians, at the time of GhobAd.
Having said all this, I really think that believers
in any of these religions really are not following
any of these historical issues. For them, religious
experience is a way of describing their own life
experiences. Religion and state should be separate, that
is the bottom line. Trying to seek another religion
to solve one's problems on the current Earthly matters,
I believe, is a waste of time.
I really think, the sufferings of Iranian Baha'is,
because of religious persecution, is strengthening,
their own sticking more and more to religion as well.
This is like many Communists in the past, who would
stick to Communism more and more, because of the persecution
of the communists by various states, because of their beliefs,
and they were treatedlike khAen or mortad, if they gave up
their Communist religion when their peers were being
persecuted because of that religion.
I think the problem of Bahai's and other religious minorities
in Iran are human right problems. The point is that a
*not-religious* good person from a Muslim or Zorastrian or
Baha'i or Christain or Jewish background can better help
himself/herself and others to come to terms with the reality
of the diversity of human thought experience than becoming
a zealot supporting any religion.
Regards,
- Sam
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On Fri, 31 Jan 1997, Arash wrote:
> qizilbash wrote:
>
> >
> > Oh NO! this is the same guy that keeps on promising not to insult other
> > religions.
> >
> > Suppose I started calling all zoroastrian piss eating fire worshippers
> > just becase of an ignorant cowardish imbecile like you.
> >
> > It seems that your opinion does not concord with Rumi or Hafez or Hatef or
> > Jaami or Mulla Sadra or any IMPORTANT IRANIAN Figures.
> > THere is no aliollahis in Iran, they are around Syria, you must prove that
> > there is such a thing as Aliollahi in Iran.
>
> Actually there are Aliollahis in Iran. I had seen and knew some of them. One of
> our naighbors (the whole family) were aliollahis. We usually did not talk about
> religous matters but they did say they were aliollahis, and also stressed that
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> they did not consider Ali as God. Their saying was that: "mA Ali rA khodA
> nemidAnim, az khodA jodA nemidAnim" They were moslems like other people,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i guess you either have forgotten some points of the story
or your neighbours wwere pretending to be aliollahis.
what u r claiming they said are in cntradiction with each other.
u say they told u they were aliollahis but they do not know ali as the
god?????
arash ur second statement from them is what many darvish in iran believe
in it
but they never claim they r aliollahi and just stupid people as usual put
this lable to them
i suggest you or any1 else read some documents about what they say ( sure
from both sides)
then open his'her mouth and reveal the facts.
regards
syuavash
ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
people's believes
but also use any means to take their rights from them.what a stupid funny
world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the coffee
that insults never works.
Sam Ghandchi
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
....
> >as far as universalism (appealing beyond its national
> >origin), Islam is a more advanced religion than
> >Zorastrianism. I have heard that in India,
>
> Bull. Iranians never forced their religion or language upon
> any other people.
.....
Excuse me, where did I discuss Iranians forcing
their religion on anybody? Let me repeat
what I wrote in a an example. As far as I
know, a black American cannot become Zartoshti,
even if s/he wants to, s/he will not be accepted
to the Zartoshti religion. Please correct me
if I am wrong?
Regards,
- Sam
Arash
Anonymous wrote:
>
> Saeed Kharazi is Bahai.
>
> There is nothing wrong with that.
>
Hey binAmoos! Was that you who was giving everybody all the crap about
you not being the real binAmoos? What a joke!! You are the same jerk.
You are a hojjati. And you don't like Saeed Kharazi because he gives you
dandan-shekan replies. Damet garm saeed jan.
Now, mr binAmoos, please cut the crap about you not being you and being
someone else. Go clean your filthy mouth, and tell your hojjati (animal)
leaders their times are over. You are a disgrace to SCI. Go back to
Iran and take all your fohsh khAhar and mAdar with you to your shepeshoo
and aghab-oftAdeh mullahs, whose only function in life is to pick their
noses.
Arash
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani)
Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com> Wrote:
snip....
>Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
>>
>> Coward nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Wrote:
>>
>> >Saeed Kharazi is Bahai.
>> >
>> >There is nothing wrong with that.
>>
>> No stupid. Baha'is believe in your Arab Religion. To me they are
>> phillosophically ahead of Moselms but still their roots are the same as
you
>> Arabs. I am a born again Zartoshti. Thanks to your Mullahs there will
be
>> many more people like me in the near future. In a few years AKhoonds
will
>> yearn for the good old Bahai's. Baha'is respect your imposter for a
prophet
>> and your Imams. The new Zartoshti generation of Iranians will know these
>> ARabs and their Agents now in Iran are the true enemy.
>
>I really do not understand why all racist
>comments against Arabs on SCI. Actually,
I don't consider caring about one's own family and fellow country men and
women racism. Obviously you care more about your own brother and sister and
children than the neighbors'. A bad person is the one who wishes harm for
other people because they are not from his family but caring more about
your family vs strangers does not make you a bad person. Arabs are united
against Iranians it is time we started caring about our culture and chose a
governemnt that celebrates our culture rather than trying to kill it like
these Arab agents called Hezbolah.
>as far as universalism (appealing beyond its national
>origin), Islam is a more advanced religion than
>Zorastrianism. I have heard that in India,
Bull. Iranians never forced their religion or language upon any other
people. Even to this day any Moselm from any where in the world has to pray
in Arabic. Islam is nothing more than a Pan Arabist movement. the only
thing that made Islam global was Iran's defeat to Arab and thank god and
Thanks to Khomeini people are seeing the true face of this Arab movement.
>people who were not from Parsi origin and
>wanted to become Zorastrian, were not accepted,
>and this was one of the reasons that Zorastrianism
>did not grow much, after its followers mainly
>moved to India.
That was part of the agreement for settelment back then. They were not
allowed to preach in India and in Iran the pockets of Zartoshtis left were
persecuted and killed up untill 1920.
>Also let's not forget, that many Iranians were frustrated
>with Zorastriaism, at the end of Sassanid Dynasty and
>they welcomed Islam. That is long before Omar or Ali's
>time, I am talking about the kingdom of Khosro-pArviz,
>who is said to have had hundreds of wives and had
>full support of Zorastrian moobeds. And a little while
Mobeds were never realy Zartoshti. They were the same AKhoonds that are now
calling themselves Ayat of Alah. They were as much of a stranger to Ashu
Zartosht's meesage then as they are today to Islam. Plus that was 1300
years ago. Today the source of people's missery is not the Zartoshtis
rather the Akhoonds and Arabs. Our people have already began by naming
their children Iranian names. Iranians celebrations such as Norooz have
blossomed inspite of IRI's attempt at killing them. Custom's such as
Charshanbeh soory are celebrated more than ever, although IRI and their
thugs are adoment about killing those. As soon as people are given any
chance at freedom of religion I am confident the universal message of Ashu
Zartosht based on "good thoughts, Good deeds and good words" will appeal to
all Iranians. Tired of strict Islamic laws which treat them like children
in constant need of guidance by govenrment and clergy, Iranians will find
tremendous appeal in a looser set of rules empowering each individual with
liberty to choose between good and bad. Our people were years ahead of the
rest of the world when they accepted Zartosht's message the first time and
they will once again shock the world by embracing that universal message
once more.
Neek bAshid
Yek Irani
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani)
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
snip...
>ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
>show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
>people's believes but also use any means to take their rights from
them.what a stupid funny
>world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
>believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the coffee
>that insults never works.
Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some of us
finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
Erooni
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.97020...@cfd.me>...
Salam
I too know some Aliollahis both here in US and Iran and agree with
Arash. If you read his message carefully he explained the contradiction.
> arash ur second statement from them is what many darvish in iran believe
> in it
> but they never claim they r aliollahi and just stupid people as usual put
> this lable to them
> i suggest you or any1 else read some documents about what they say ( sure
> from both sides)
> then open his'her mouth and reveal the facts.
And what document did you read before opening your mouth? He did not
reveal the facts body , just his experience.
Take it easy
>
> regards
> syuavash
>
> ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
> show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
> people's believes
> but also use any means to take their rights from them.what a stupid funny
> world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
> believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the coffee
> that insults never works.
>
habibollah valanejad
"Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani)" <YekI...@ee.net> writes:
>Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
>snip...
>>ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
>>show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
>>people's believes but also use any means to take their rights from
>them.what a stupid funny
>>world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
>>believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the coffee
>>that insults never works.
>Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
>anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some of us
>finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
You don't ask a guestion from a man who's died 1400 years ago !
I believe Syavash has made a nice statement. We should learn to have
respects for others and respecting for others start with respecting
their believes. If someone claims s/he is for the right of the people,
s/he should also realize that attacking people's religions is exactly
against whatever s/he claims !
Habib
Anonymous
Listen KHARazi,
WHo are you to put down moslems?? Are we responsible for the wrong doings of
the IRI?? Does Islam preach what Moslem rulers are doing?
Answer, incase you are dumb not to know, is NO!!!
If you,Zartoshtis, where any good you would have prevented Mohammad and his
gang from invading persia and changing Persians into Moslems.
Zartoshtis failed, and the fact that Moslems are majority in Iran is a result
of this. So stop putting down Islam! You are angry at IRI, which does not
represent Islam!
Zartoshti ha ham yeck fascist hayee hastand!
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani)
Article 7 of 35
va...@netcom.com (habibollah valanejad) Wrote:
Habib jAn, normally I agree with you but in this case I have to disagree.
We must be civilized enough to openly discuss any person. Be it they lived
1400 years ago or 2500. The greatest person who has ever lived was Koorosh
IMHO. But even he has been questioned (I mean of course his acts) right
here in SCI. There should be no sacred cows. We should have no human being
so idolized that if someone questions some of that person's actions, then
we are ready to call them "sagAn" or openly advocate "blowing the persons
brains out". In Iran they kill people for questioning Idols. So are those
people right. We had this same subject a year or two ago under a thread
named "ImAm Ali, saint or killer" and a Person named I think EsA replied
with reasoning and answers in support of Ali. That person proved that we
can talk ebout the most sacred people in a civilized fasion. Except I don't
think EsA was Iranain, since if he was he would have either chosen silence
or fahAshi or threats.
Regards
Saeed
>Habib
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
when u call urself yek irani at least try to pronounce a common name for
iranian in the right way:
it is gholAmreza. btw what is wrong with gholAmreza? takhti's name was
gholAmrezA!
2nd BTW you just brag about every1's religion is his/her damn bussiness,
but u r too blind to who started this thread was not asking whether to
love Ali (A) or hate him, she sure ( at least the way she wrote the email)
has big respect for Ali (A), she didnt have any intention to start
disxcussing where he was good or bad, actually as far as i can get from
her email she was just trying to find out more sources to praise him. if
i am right your action was either moghrezAneh ( as many times you have
proved it) or you are just loving to act foolish!
btw , zamin beri Asemoon biyAy, har Adameh monsefi midooneh,
axariateh iranihA, bad yA khub, tahteh har regimi, teyeh ghrooneh
motemAdi, mazhabeh shia va dineh islam o dAran, va be in zoodihA
in avaz nemeesheh.
hAlA tA mikhAy bekhor hers bekhor hers :-)
bolandgoo be dast o feeso efAdeh dAr nabAshid
syavash
or just to make some people burn
Syed Abdolreza
happy?
>
>
>
Anonymous
In article <32F564...@post1.com> you write:
>From: Arash <ar...@post1.com>
>Subject: Re: Hazrat-e Ali(A)
>Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 23:05:34 -0500
>Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> Saeed Kharazi is Bahai.
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with that.
>>
>Hey binAmoos! Was that you who was giving everybody all the crap about
>you not being the real binAmoos? What a joke!! You are the same jerk.
>You are a hojjati. And you don't like Saeed Kharazi because he gives you
>dandan-shekan replies. Damet garm saeed jan.
Just do your fight with "binAmoos." Why you ans Khar... lick each other's
ass so much?
habibollah valanejad
>Article 7 of 35
>va...@netcom.com (habibollah valanejad) Wrote:
>Regards
>Saeed
>>Habib
>
Dear 1,
I'm not saying you can not discuss about the people. But when you discuss
about people, please keep in mind to have repects for people's believes
and religions, no matter what the religion is.
Regards,
Habib
Cyrus
God is dead dood man..
follow me!
CM
Cyrus
> >
> > No stupid. Baha'is believe in your Arab Religion. To me they are
> > phillosophically ahead of Moselms but still their roots are the same as you
islam is marginally more advanced than the invention of the toothpick.
i.e. its damn agravating, but great when you get rid of it.
CM
Darcheen
well you have to get to knw him before you can acuse him
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> "Laat"s, "Djaahel"s and "Djavaanmard"s of our plagued culture in which
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> these artificially dignified pests talk and walk Ali and "hagh" while
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> their actions in reality are of Shemr and "naa-hagh"! (my apologies to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Shemr!).
^^^^^^^^^^^
first of all, either you have been for so long out of iran that your
savadeh fArsi nam keshideh,
or your savad was from the beginning Ab rafteh and washed in mAshine
rakhtshuri.
too kodum madreseh behet yAd dAdan , javanmard hamoon laat yA djaaheleh.
btw with the kind of language you are using on sci, you gotta be among
the last ones who blame laats!
btw i guess u r still in fortune telling bussiness or gheyb basteh
zeerAbi miri keh
migi "...javanmards' actions are those one of shemrs"
hAlA rAstesho begoo ino khodet tanhAyee fahmidi yA be het elhAmeh
AmrikAyee yA californiyAyee shodeh dariush joon.
nakoneh gjeer djeer kardaneh zeead kar dastet dadeh.
i suggest you leave hagho looti o gheyreh ro aside, and stick to you
khosho besh with your "ham dahans"
and do not forget djeer djeeer ke be nafeh shomAst.
btw i dont know why people are so obcessed with ghassabeh javanmardeh
mahalashoon?! is he the one in usa or he still is in iran?!
syavash
Yek Irani
va...@netcom.com (habibollah valanejad) Wrote:
snip..
>Dear 1,
>I'm not saying you can not discuss about the people. But when you discuss
>about people, please keep in mind to have repects for people's believes
>and religions, no matter what the religion is.
>
>Regards,
>Habib
Habib jAn I knew I can't last too long disagreeing with you. I agree 100%.
Contrary to what some people think I am not just trying to muddy water and
insult people's beliefs. I understand that we need to be considerate of
other people's. I see people like this Cyrus guy who use profane language
which can only serve the purpose of insulting people. I don't want to be
like that. I will be the first person to tell this guy, he is out of line.
My only intention in raising the issue was to recommend moderation in
admiration of human figures. I agree that nothing is gained by insulting
people or their convictions.
pirooz bAshid
Yek Irani
Yek Irani
Cyrus <cy....@virgin.net> in reply to soheila wrote:
snip..
>Now you hear this boy; ......
aboli, az kharet beeyA pAyeen peeyAdeh rA bereem. to irAnee neesti
booboolee, gomanam. nakoneh yeki deegeh az shakhseeyathAye ardabAnee.
G-man
Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
>
>
> snip...
>
> >ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
> >show how easily how could they become some1 who not only
> >insults other people's believes but also use any means to
> >take their rights from them.what a stupid funny
> >world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
> >believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell
> >the coffee that insults never works.
>
> Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
> anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some
> of us finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
ajaaaaaaaab! [(c) shahrokh, 92]
Saeed, YOU do not define what is, or should be, insulting to others;
THEY do! ... You're so full of contradictions and confusions. If
someone insulted Zartosht or Bahaullah here, you immediately cry
foul and attack them ( as you should ), but then you callously
attack a man who is one of the main pilars of Shiism, and even
more carelessly and stubbornly, keep defending your warped logic!!!
Make up your mind! Do you or do you NOT respect others' religion?
If you don't respect theirs, don't come running to me ( a generic me )
with your ashko Aho nAleh that THEY did not repect you or
your religion because you will not get my sympathy! "A Sed Abdol"
asked a very valid question. Answer him!
You can't go zir-Abi by just saying that "Questioning a man who
lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to anyone. Calling
people "sag" in a public forum is. "! na AghA! ... As you have seen
already by the generally negative reaction to your statements,
the MAN you're talking about is, to many people, as moghaddas, if not
even more so, as themselves. Your reasoning is not even valid to
a 10 year-old Shiite boy! Stop justifying your attacks or you are
no better than anyone else who justifies theirs! Bigotry is in
keeping double-standards. So _I_ have to ask _you_ to apply your own
advice; " When will some of us finally stop being so bigoted"?
G-man
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On 3 Feb 1997, Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
> Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
>
> snip...
>
> >ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
> >show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
> >people's believes but also use any means to take their rights from
> them.what a stupid funny
> >world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
> >believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the coffee
> >that insults never works.
>
> Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
you better start by questioning the existance of a small piece of brain
in your head, and the rest pishkeshet.
your crying on sci for 3 years reminids me of nothing except the old
serial movies on iranian national tv about 25 years ago, called "khAneyeh
ghamr khAnum".
i suggest you choose the alias "AghAyeh pAk bAkhteh" or maybe even,
"ghamar khAnum"-no offence intended to people having the name "ghamar, i
am just symbolizing him with that movie character.
you are no different from the same guy who started insulting your
family and fools like me defending your nAmoos. we didnt know, khodA daro
takhtaro be ham joor mikoneh", or for you : "An bist shenA koni"!
i am really saddend you pull into "lajan" the name of kind zartoshti
people of iran.
for centuries zartoshtis have been the symbol of adab and shakhsiat.
now you are trying to pull them with yourself into manjelAb.
using the alias yek irani ( as a symbol of your racist existance) and being
proud of
being an american citizen, attacking black american movements there
(another symbol of racism), insulting a race ( arabs), pretending to have
changed your religion to something you dont know a little of it, are all
facts showing your no1 better than shaboon bi mokh and just a thug but
such a beeorze coward one that cant do anything except sitting behind
computer. where have you been when others were defending your country
from its enemies, and defending your nAmoos, perhaps busy with finding
out a new name or religion or nationality?
> anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some of us
> finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
saeed kharazi you are such a foll that thinking a name or changing the
name of a religion would do things good for you.
you are using the same tool that the anonymous guy was using against you.
but u r too dumb to realize and see where he is now so you might get an
idea where you are heading.
do me a favor
keep positing
i love "khAneyeh ghamar khAnoom"
that is one odf my favorites.
sedA too galoo andAz az poshteh monitor nabAshid
sharmo hayA dAshteh bAshid
syavash
> >
>
>
Yek Irani
You know I was just thinking about all the effort that is put into
celebrating Shiia icons. Not 1% of that is put into celebrating Koorosh.
The entire western culture is based on his freeing of the Jews from Babylon
and proclaiming "all people equal and free to worship any god". Today the
western world is florishing putting into practice Darius' "Trade instead of
War" philosophy. Yet, we the Proud Inheritants of those ideas, spend all
our resources celebrating Arab icons. Yet we are ready to "blow each others
brains out" for questioning our Bot.
RoozegAre ghareebeest nAzaneen
Yek Irani
Arash
Anonymous wrote:
>
>
> >Hey binAmoos! Was that you who was giving everybody all the crap about
> >you not being the real binAmoos? What a joke!! You are the same jerk.
> >You are a hojjati. And you don't like Saeed Kharazi because he gives you
> >dandan-shekan replies. Damet garm saeed jan.
>
> Just do your fight with "binAmoos." Why you ans Khar... lick each other's
> ass so much?
Fight with binAmoos? What are you talking about? I just wanted to show that
YOU - who keeps on denying - are that binAmoos, the degenerate liar, the
Hezbollahi and fanatic moslem whose only language (mother tongue) is the f
word and fohsh khAhar and madar. So, when you post about KLM, Bahrain and
all the other garbage under diffrerent names such as binAmoos, beri or
Ardaban, readers must be reminded that they all comes from one person, our
good old buddy, the hezbollahi mr anonymous binAmoos. Stop pretending you
are someone else. I would like to remind other SCIers to read this guy's
posting today where he admitted on abusing the anonymous services.
Arash
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2 Feb 1997 dari...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > Yaghout Nourani wrote:
> > >
> > > dari...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
[earlier transactions deleted]
> > I *frankly* did not understand your quote :( . Shame on me! :)
> >
> > > On the other hand, maybe you were sarcastic about the word "hagh".
> > > Since, in this todays world, you can hardly see any "hagh" and justice!
> >
> > By no means. I do think "hagh" is still around - and perhaps a bit more
> > than before (by what I read as history of course! :))
[some older lines deleted]
What you have _tried_ to type above does not have any _meat_!
No bones either! :)
At least you could have described the quote and possibly
enlightened me.
> syavash
Dariush.
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
i read his massage carefully and urs' too. there are many people claiming
they are this or that but they are fake.
where did i talk about alliollahis? did i say they do not exist?
open yuor eyes! i just said darAvish are not alliolahi!
whether you know alliolahis in iran or usa is not relevant.
>
> > arash ur second statement from them is what many darvish in iran believe
> > in it
> > but they never claim they r aliollahi and just stupid people as usual put
>
> > this lable to them
> > i suggest you or any1 else read some documents about what they say ( sure
>
> > from both sides)
> > then open his'her mouth and reveal the facts.
>
> And what document did you read before opening your mouth? He did not
many that even you do not know the names.
and talking about his experience, experience is good, i didnt say he lies
i explained my openions there.
if you believe in experience, let me tell you i know thousands of
darAvish who are not alliolAhi and are labled to be one by many people
like you and arash.
it is like knowing a black america n and concluding all americans are black.
> reveal the facts body , just his experience.
>
> Take it easy
u 3
btw i do not see your signature or alias or whatever
maybe u were drown in facts that bad that u forgot
to sign.
syavash
>
> >
> > regards
> > syuavash
> >
> > ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
> > show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
> > people's believes
> > but also use any means to take their rights from them.what a stupid funny
>
> > world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
> > believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the coffee
>
> > that insults never works.
> >
Saeed Kharazi
G-man Wrote:
Snip
>ajaaaaaaaab! [(c) shahrokh, 92]
>
>Saeed, YOU do not define what is, or should be, insulting to others;
SalAm G-man jAn.How about " Making slanderous remarks about a person or his
imediate family in a public forum is insult." I think we can agree with
that. I am even willing to say making profane remarks about people's idols
can be considered indirect insult. But asking valid questions about those
icons I do not think is insult if it is asked without profanity. There are
books and articles writen about Jesus and Christianity in the west that
question even Jesus' existance. Some wonder if Jesus is a person that is
made up of a number of people and did not realy exist as many accept. Time
or Newsweek just a few weeks ago did a cover page on the subject. Perhaps
to some fanatic Christian in Utah those words may be insulting but to most
people here it is part of their freedom of speech. Don't take me wrong if
the Time magazine started by calling Jesus a Bastard then that would be
insulting. But saying Jesus was born to a single mother I do not think
should be insulting.
>THEY do! ... You're so full of contradictions and confusions. If
>someone insulted Zartosht or Bahaullah here, you immediately cry
>foul and attack them ( as you should ), but then you callously
>attack a man who is one of the main pilars of Shiism, and even
>more carelessly and stubbornly, keep defending your warped logic!!!
Well I know you won't like my answer but If it was Zartoshtis and Bahai's
who were killing Authors and Educators then I would be the first to attack
them. Don't you see when IRI mixes Islam and politics they are making fight
against the religion a political fight. The Clergy in Iran must realize
that it is not just one person. Millions of Irranians are loosing their
faith in Islam. The longer they torture and kill the more people will see
this. Therefore the fight against Islam as long as IRI is in power is a
political fight where as fighting Baha'is and Zartoshtis now would be
considered religious persecution.
>Make up your mind! Do you or do you NOT respect others' religion?
I do as long as their religion is not the means of keeping a corupt
government in power.
>If you don't respect theirs, don't come running to me ( a generic me )
>with your ashko Aho nAleh that THEY did not repect you or
>your religion because you will not get my sympathy! "A Sed Abdol"
>asked a very valid question. Answer him!
Azeez it is not ashko nAleh for me. I for the record will say that
personaly I have never been subject of ANY religious persecution. But I
feel the pain of those who have been and if I see people attempting to
commit religious persecution then I will cry foul. Now to answer "A sed
abdol"'s question. Seyed joon you are absolutely right. Insults do not
work. But there has to be some sort of proper way to discuss such topics
without inusulting people. When there is thousands of boooks writen in
praise of a figure then there should be at least one article writen
chalenging those views. There is no such thing in our culture. I understand
so far 3 different authors have been killed accused of writing 23 sAl. Is
bisto se sAl a book of insults or is it litrature?
>You can't go zir-Abi by just saying that "Questioning a man who
>lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to anyone. Calling
>people "sag" in a public forum is. "! na AghA! ... As you have seen
>already by the generally negative reaction to your statements,
>the MAN you're talking about is, to many people, as moghaddas, if not
>even more so, as themselves. Your reasoning is not even valid to
>a 10 year-old Shiite boy! Stop justifying your attacks or you are
>no better than anyone else who justifies theirs! Bigotry is in
>keeping double-standards. So _I_ have to ask _you_ to apply your own
>advice; " When will some of us finally stop being so bigoted"?
>
>G-man
G-man jAN ask me any question in a calm manner about any figure you think
is holly to me. Including Ashu Zartosht and even Koorosh and I will answer
in the same calm manner. I just ask that people asking such questions about
Baha, zartosht, ALi , Moahamd and other people who are Moghadas to some
people not use profanity in their question. Otherwise I think it is all
fair and we should never hold any person above being a human. That includes
my idols. If I did not believe this then I agree with you. I would be a
bigot.
tandorost bAshid
Yek Irani
Soheila Amiri
"Yek Irani" <YekI...@ee.net> writes:
>RoozegAre ghareebeest nAzaneen
>Yek Irani
Mr. Kharazzi,
In light of my recent posting, requesting info. on Hazrat-e Ali(A)
I assume your tidbit above in some way or another is directed to
me among others. Your question here is why celebrate "Arab"
icons Vs. "Persian/Iranian" icons.
Let be point out the following as it pertains to me:
I am not a star gazer, an Icon worshipper nor do I recognize
many "celebrities" in any society as such. I, however, make
it a point to study and determine for myself the truth about
a subject matter, whether it is considered to be an icon in
some eyes or not, whether it is a person and idea, etc.
I am beginning to see the major dillema you seem to be having
and that is you seem to have a problem with anything that
has any kind of ties with an Arabic background. I have a
strong feeling had I been seeking info. on Budhist monks
as I pointed out in the earlier response to Cyroos you
would not have jumped out of your seat so fast to opine
so broadly (and baselessly IMO) on that subject.
The national origins matter very little (if at all) to
me when I set out to learn a subject. If I was to
limit myself to boundaries of a certain nationality as
you suggest above, my realm of understanding of the
world would be very limmited and disadvantaged.
Soheila
Yek Irani
First let me say that I was torn between two great Persian proverbs before
I replied to you. One the famous proverb you used "The answer to ignorant
people is ignorance" and second the one that says "Just word has no
answer". So my debate was: "do I ignore you because I know you are
impossible to choose, or do I risk people thinking I was silenced because
your word were JUST. Well as it is obvious I chose to say my 2 cents words.
SO here we go for the record:
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
>On 3 Feb 1997, Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
> Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
>>
>> snip...
>>
>> >ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
>> >show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
>> >people's believes but also use any means to take their rights from
>> them.what a stupid funny
>> >world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
>> >believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the
coffee
>> >that insults never works.
>>
>> Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
>you better start by questioning the existance of a small piece of brain
>in your head, and the rest pishkeshet.
I said nothing about you or your intelligence and you discount mine instead
of stating your view. But I won't respond by questioning your intelligence.
I blame your knee jerk reaction on social effect of our culture. Like all
cultures our society also has its good and Not so Good. The good is the
indisputable facts that all our Persian originated cultural ideals are
based on Neeki and love of nature. The not so good are the forced and
foreign elements of our culture that advocate blindly following the orders
of so called "voices of God". I don't take insult in your recommendation.
As a matter of fact I think you are right. I agree that my brain is mighty
small compared to the knowledge and information that has been discovered so
far by humans and the knowledge that has yet to be discovered. As one great
Persian wise man said "All is known by everyone, and everyone has not been
born yet". "hame cheez rA hamegAn dAnand va hamegAn hanooz zAdeh
nashodeand". This wonderful idea suggest that although there is knowledge
that current generation is incapable of knowing and only the future
generations will know. Yet he acknowledges that even the future generation
will not have knowledge that previous generations were entitled to. So I
admit my knowledge is "a small piece" compared to the vast amount of
knowledge that is known to humans as of now and it is nothing compared to
the universe of knowledge that is yet to be discovered by us. But as
Ferdowsi said (actually yAdesh bekheyr Aliasghar EbrahimnejAd corrected me
once that ferdowsi was quoting "peyghambare rAstgoo") "ze gahvAreh tA goor
dAnesh bejoo" in English "from cradle to grave, seek knowledge". So next
time someone tells you "This book is gook of GOD, Other than this book no
other book is word of god. Those who believe in this book are 'Momen' and
those who question this book are 'kAfar'" (Source: Quoran Albaghareh I
think 1-4) you should think about Ferdowsi's advice that you should "seek
knowledge instead of blindly following anyone.
>your crying on sci for 3 years reminds me of nothing except the old
>serial movies on iranian national tv about 25 years ago, called "khAneyeh
>ghamr khAnum". i suggest you choose the alias "AghAyeh pAk bAkhteh"
Sadly I have to report to your highness that unfortunately when it comes to
our beloved Iran, we are ALL pAkbAkhteh.
>or maybe even, "ghamar khAnum"-no offence intended to people having the
name >"ghamar, i m just symbolizing him with that movie character.
I suppose here you are talking to the rest of SCIers. I can't help but
notice that you seem to think ALL these "SCIers" are agreeing with you.
Although I admit most of them due to being exposed to the same social
factors as you, are in agreement with you. However there is a growing
minority whose thoughts are along the same lines as mine.
> you are no different from the same guy who started insulting your
>family and fools like me defending your nAmoos. we didnt know, khodA daro
>takhtaro be ham joor mikoneh", or for you : "An bist shenA koni"!
I don't understand your second sentence but I comprehend your first
statement. I disagree with your comparison od me and binAmoos. More
importantly I do not recall you protesting binAmoos' attacks as you claim
you have. OK I see what you meant to day with your second comment. You
meant "Ab neest". Well, all I ask is that everyone should get the chance to
swim. That is the only way we can judge people. Not by how we think they
would swim, rather by how good of a swimmer they prove to be, once they are
given a chance to swim.
>i am really saddend you pull into "lajan" the name of kind zartoshti
>people of iran.
Again I never claimed I am the spokes person for the Zartoshtis rather that
I personally believe in that religion. The great Zartoshti religion is far
greater than me and to most Iranians it is an indispensable part of their
heritage. We Iranians were the first to introduce the world to the concept
of God Vs evil with AhurA vs Ahriman. That is something all Iranians
including you should take pride in. That is also a far greater institution
that me or any damage this mortal soul can bring to this great institution.
>for centuries zartoshtis have been the symbol of adab and shakhsiat.
>now you are trying to pull them with yourself into manjelAb.
Again I remind you that my "manjelAb" is mine and mine only. Do not jusge
the great Zartoshtis by judging me. Judge them by their treatment of
"sagAne velgard" in yazd. Judge them by the achievements of pArsis in
India. Judge them by the teachings of Ashu Zartosht. You can not blame
Zartoshtis or Ashu Zartosht for my "words, deeds and thoughts" as much as
you can not blame them for the wrong doings of sAsAnian.
>using the alias yek irani ( as a symbol of your racist existence) and
being
>proud of being an American citizen, attacking black American movements
there
Now wait just a second. You have been adversarial towards me ever since the
Citizenship issue that came up about a year or so ago. I stated then as I
will state now. I do not consider becoming a US citizen against being an
Iranian citizen for because the government of Iran is one of the only two
countries in the world (the other one is Israel) that allows dual
citizenship. Therefore even according to IRI one can accept the citizenship
of US and still remain Iranian citizen.
> (another symbol of racism), insulting a race ( arabs), pretending to have
I challenge you to introduce any statements made by me to suggest attacking
"black American movements". I have always voiced my opposition to the so
called "Aryan supremacists" and wish our Aryan leaders had one drop of
humanity that ran through Dr. King's veins. As far as my remarks against
Arabs, I will remind you that I have only made such statements where our
national identity was challenged. I will also remind you that these remarks
were made only in the Iranian group. I am not sure if you have noticed that
I have been very much considerate of our Arab neighbors' feelings and have
been very careful when articles were cross posted to Arab groups. Whenever
my comments were being cross posted to our Arabs neighbors' I have made
extra effort to build unity rather than division. I truly believe our long
term interest are so mixed with our Arab neighbors that any attempt at
dividing Iranians and Arabs will only serve the enemies of both. However I
am not apologetic about my comments about Arabs. When they are united
against Iranians, we MUST be united in support of our interests.
>changed your religion to something you dont know a little of it, are all
>facts showing your no1 better than shaboon bi mokh and just a thug but
>such a beeorze coward one that cant do anything except sitting behind
>computer. where have you been when others were defending your country
>from its enemies, and defending your nAmoos, perhaps busy with finding
>out a new name or religion or nationality?
Coming from some1 sitting behind a computer this is really interesting. As
far as calling me "a coward" I dare say the last thing you can accuse me of
is coward since unlike the binAmoos that you compare me to, I have never
been fearful of my identity nor my expression of my opinions no matter how
unpopular.
>> anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some of
us
>> finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
>saeed kharazi you are such a foll that thinking a name or changing the
>name of a religion would do things good for you.
I am not sure what kind of "good" you think I am receiving by my
involvement in SCI but I assure you I would do more good for myself if I
spend my time reading my trade magazines. This obsession with SCI does not
make any of us "good" and goods.
>you are using the same tool that the anonymous guy was using against you.
>but u r too dumb to realize and see where he is now so you might get an
>idea where you are heading. do me a favor keep positing
>i love "khAneyeh ghamar khAnoom" that is one odf my favorites.
What ever your majesty says.
>sedA too galoo andAz az poshteh monitor nabAshid
>sharmo hayA dAshteh bAshid
>syavash
AzAd bAshid
Yek Irani
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
that was exactly my point. for you and others like you, there is no meat
in being 'javanmard", heck you know why? cus javanmard people do not look
for meat or bones.
keep upp looking for bones or meat
but it wont do anything good to u, insulting others' belives.
as funny as u might think u r, others think u r no better than whom u r
trying to stop from profanity.
how is this? clear enough for u ? or shoiuld i waste my time more?
syavash
Anonymous
Arash kooni,
You are so stupid that wasting breath on you is not smart.
You are Yek Irani, Saeed KHARazi, Dadras, Jeannette, Manuel (ARS).
You are just as anon as I am. Now shut up!
Boy, this fag never gives up.
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
> that was exactly my point. for you and others like you, there is no meat
> in being 'javanmard", heck you know why? cus javanmard people do not look
> for meat or bones.
> keep upp looking for bones or meat
> but it wont do anything good to u, insulting others' belives.
> as funny as u might think u r, others think u r no better than whom u r
> trying to stop from profanity.
> how is this? clear enough for u ? or shoiuld i waste my time more?
> syavash
>
What is it exactly that you are trying to to say?!
Are you by any chance suggesting you are a "djavaanmard"?
Dariush.
Dariush.
Yek Irani
Soheila Amiri <sam...@encore.com> wrote in article
<E55B6...@encore.com>...
> "Yek Irani" <YekI...@ee.net> writes:
>
> >You know I was just thinking about all the effort that is put into
> >celebrating Shiia icons. Not 1% of that is put into celebrating Koorosh.
> >The entire western culture is based on his freeing of the Jews from
Babylon
> >and proclaiming "all people equal and free to worship any god". Today
the
> >western world is florishing putting into practice Darius' "Trade instead
of
> >War" philosophy. Yet, we the Proud Inheritants of those ideas, spend all
> >our resources celebrating Arab icons. Yet we are ready to "blow each
others
> >brains out" for questioning our Bot.
>
> >RoozegAre ghareebeest nAzaneen
>
> >Yek Irani
>
> Mr. Kharazzi,
just one z pleazz,
> In light of my recent posting, requesting info. on Hazrat-e Ali(A)
> I assume your tidbit above in some way or another is directed to
> me among others. Your question here is why celebrate "Arab"
> icons Vs. "Persian/Iranian" icons.
My question was directed at all Iranians. But my question was not "why Arab
vs Iranian" rather why such disporportionate ratio. Why is it that when you
go through Iranian Calendar we have days celebrating Taghi o Naghi o Sheikh
kooreh vo sheikh shaleh vo sheikh kareh. We have days celebrating animal
torture. We have holidays that even forces Non Moslems to close their
stores in celebration of Arabs. But other than Norooz we have no official
Persian Holidays. We do not even have a day celebrating hAfez or Ferdowsi
but we celebrate Imam ZeynolAbedeene mordaneeye falak zadeh.I am not
sugesting let's get rid of Arab icons. But let us also celebrate Iranian
icons whose contribution to humanity have been far greater than some
sickeling Imam from 1300 years ago.
> Let be point out the following as it pertains to me:
>
> I am not a star gazer, an Icon worshipper nor do I recognize
> many "celebrities" in any society as such. I, however, make
> it a point to study and determine for myself the truth about
> a subject matter, whether it is considered to be an icon in
> some eyes or not, whether it is a person and idea, etc.
That is all I ever asked anyone to do. Howeve how can you make a valid
conclusion if you don't hear both sides. You did not even ask hey where is
your proof. What is your evidence that Ali killed so many people. Instead
you called me undeucated and a bunch of names just for sugesting you should
not listen to the Mob's view.
> I am beginning to see the major dillema you seem to be having
> and that is you seem to have a problem with anything that
> has any kind of ties with an Arabic background. I have a
Only when it involves them forcibly trying to replace Persian Icons like
Norooz with Arab ones like Eyd e Fetr.
> strong feeling had I been seeking info. on Budhist monks
> as I pointed out in the earlier response to Cyroos you
> would not have jumped out of your seat so fast to opine
> so broadly (and baselessly IMO) on that subject.
If we had little Monks running around cities in Iran in their Patrol cars
and arresting young girls and boys. If these monks were torturing and
prisoning writers and educators in the name of their Great Monk. Then I
would jump out of my seat just as fast if someone asked about "glorified
reviews" of the great monk.
> The national origins matter very little (if at all) to
> me when I set out to learn a subject. If I was to
> limit myself to boundaries of a certain nationality as
> you suggest above, my realm of understanding of the
> world would be very limmited and disadvantaged.
>
> Soheila
I think that is why I am so uneducated compared to you. You are so
international and open mined.
dAneshjoo bAshid
Yek Irani
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
i used to think "rooze gAr ghareebeest nAzanin" too,
but after getting to know u and ur alikes for so long
now it is not that ghareeb in roozegar for me ;-)
deegeh az in roozegar tavaghoyee beeshtar az rooberroo shodan bA pAk
bAkhtegAn nemeetavan dAsht!
i bet even shamloo soon will write
"rooze gAr na chandAn ghareebeest nAzanin" ;-)
hey if shamloo writes this i hope he will mention my copyrights ;-)
or i might become like u ( although doesnt have that much hoseleh or money)
and send my vakil vasee after him!
after all injQA AmerikA abAdeh shareh hert ke nist ;-)
rastee joke kheili ghareebiri ro shenidi?
ghareeb nabAshin
syavash
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, G-man wrote:
> Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
> >
> > Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
> >
> > snip...
> >
> > >ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
> > >show how easily how could they become some1 who not only
> > >insults other people's believes but also use any means to
> > >take their rights from them.what a stupid funny
> > >world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
> > >believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell
> > >the coffee that insults never works.
> >
> > Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
> > anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some
> > of us finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
>
> ajaaaaaaaab! [(c) shahrokh, 92]
>
> Saeed, YOU do not define what is, or should be, insulting to others;
> THEY do! ... You're so full of contradictions and confusions. If
> someone insulted Zartosht or Bahaullah here, you immediately cry
> foul and attack them ( as you should ), but then you callously
> attack a man who is one of the main pilars of Shiism, and even
> more carelessly and stubbornly, keep defending your warped logic!!!
>
> Make up your mind! Do you or do you NOT respect others' religion?
> If you don't respect theirs, don't come running to me ( a generic me )
> with your ashko Aho nAleh that THEY did not repect you or
> your religion because you will not get my sympathy! "A Sed Abdol"
hey u forgot to mention his copyrights ;-)
> asked a very valid question. Answer him!
>
he cant! he has failed before! i bet he doesnt even dare to bring my
original post where i called any1 dog!
he just is a naneh man ghareebam bAz as u and others know!
but he doesnt know sci has naneh man ghareebam bAz long time before he
even were in sci and they all either left or changed their jobs :-)
just let him be! u see i am damn bored after work and dealing with negh
negheh bacheh!
i cant find ghamar khAnum taopes either
so at least audio ;-) or better saying SCI-sedA can be enough for me
to follow the ghamar khAnum serial ;-)
yAdesh bekheir marhoomeh madar bozorgeh man ye sAb khuneh dAsht moo
nemeezad bA pAk bAkhteh! even after 20 years still bacheh mahalA know him
( even his kids) as pAk bAkhteh!
i gotta go ask his family name, maybe inA fAmil dar oomadan ;-)
> You
>can't go zir-Abi by just saying that "Questioning a
cheshmam roshan! copy right mA chee shod ;-)
zeerAbi az zeereh copy right dar naro ;-)
>man who > lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to anyone. Calling
> people "sag" in a public forum is. "! na AghA! ... As you have seen
> already by the generally negative reaction to your statements,
> the MAN you're talking about is, to many people, as moghaddas, if not
> even more so, as themselves. Your reasoning is not even valid to
> a 10 year-old Shiite boy! Stop justifying your attacks or you are
> no better than anyone else who justifies theirs! Bigotry is in
> keeping double-standards. So _I_ have to ask _you_ to apply your own
> advice; " When will some of us finally stop being so bigoted"?
>
bAbA in bAbA hartf bezani rAjebeh footbAl
meegeh iri kharbozero ban kardeh!
bezAr hAl koneh
vagarneh yeh lable thug be het meezanehAn
momkeneh hata sue t koneh
bebinam yek irani jAneh jAnaaAn enghadar sue t meezani khasteh nemeeshi ?
;-)
ezat zeeAd g-man jAn
honarpeeshewh bAshid
"sue" t nazanin saram raft bAbA
syavash
> G-man
>
>
Samad Ghazi
"blue" <rta...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>this is from a long time ago (kelase talimate dini), so its
>accuracy is not absolute:
>
>Ali son of Abi-Talib was born in Mecca and was the first man to
>convert to Islam - Muhammad's wife, Khadijeh, being the first
>woman.
>
>He married Muhammad's daughter, Fatemeh, and was father to
>Hossein, Hassan and Zeinab, among others.
>
>He was, as reported, one the shrewdest, most learned and most
>courageous of Islamic war commanders. He was purported to be
>instrumental in securing Muslims' victory in battles of Ohod,
>Khandaq and Kheibar.
>
>He earned the title of 'zolfaqar' apparently for the fact that
>he was the first to step forward in battles.
Hello blue
I’ve got some corrections and comments on your article. My purpose is to
help young Iranians abroad to be better familiar with our religious
teachings. If I refer to Sunni and Shia, I do not mean to start an
argument. We are all brothers in Islam.
'Zolfagar' is the name given to Hazrat Ali's famous sword. It is not a
title of Hazrat Ali himself. After the battle of Ohud in which Hazrat Ali
confronted the entire enemy army and prevented a route and saved the
prophet’s life, the arch angel Gebrail is reputed to have visited the
scene and said “lA fatA elle ali, lA sayfa elle zolfaqAr” (There is no
Knight but Ali and no sword but Zolfagar).
>
>Ali was at the side of Muhammad as he entered Mecca to overthrow
>the idols worshipped by Meccans.
>
>His sworn enemy was Moawiyeh, who fought Ali over caliphate and
>finally succeeded in side-lining Ali.
>
>Ali was stabbed by Ibn-Moljam on 19th of Ramadan and died on
>21st of Ramadan.
>
>His major legacy was the branching of Islam into two factions,
>Shiites and Sunnis, although he was steadfastly against it.
>Ali's followers believed that Muhammad had appointed Ali to
>succeed as Muslims' sole leader. Those against Ali wanted as
>Muhammad's father-in-law Abu-Bakr to succeed Muhammad. The
>fight resulted in the division of Islam into two branches.
>
It is inaccurate to say that the Shia Sunni division is Hazrat Ali's
legacy. Surely, his legacies are his authority of ‘velayat’, his example,
his teaching and his guidance to mankind.
The so called Shia Sunni divide was more of a political rather than a
religious divide at the outset. Followers of Ali maintained that the
prophet on many occasions had introduced Ali as his successor. The most
prominent of these occasions are the first meeting with the wider family
of the prophet when he introduced himself as the prophet of God and the
last haj at Gadir Khom. In the first meeting the prophet said the one who
accepted him in that meeting was to be his successor. Ali was the only
one who accepted. Near the end of the prophet’s life during the return
journey of the last haj, the prophet explicitly introduced Ali as 'vali'
in the same vein as himself. There was no dispute among Muslims at that
time that the prophet had introduced Ali as successor. After the
prophet’s death, the rivals of Ali who had previously pledged loyalty to
him said Ali was 'too young'. This was a political battle to become
rulers rather than a religious exercise. None of Abu Bakr nor Omar nor
Othman who ruled before Ali claimed to have any authority from God or the
prophet. Indeed they did not have any. They wanted themselves to be
rulers rather than Ali. This was a political divide at the expense of
religion. The 'religious' divide happened about two hundred years later
towards the end of Imam Sadeg’s life at the time of Haroun Al-Rasheed
when the caliph appointed the four 'court clergy' to oppose Imam Sadeg
and Imam Musa who maintained a line of succession from Ali. The four
branches of Sunnism start from these four teachers and the Shia has its
roots at the outset of Islam with the prophet himself.
It is therefore not accurate to say that Shia is a branching off of
Islam. Although the Sunnies are greater in number, by the above account
Shia is the more main stream strand of Islam. The superiority in numbers
of the Sunnies is due to the persecution of the Shia by Sunni caliphs.
The greatest blessing and honour of Iran is that our nation embraced
Hazrat Ali’s authority and despite tremendous oppression remained loyal
to the prophet and his appointed successor. It is fair to say that
although the prophet preached among the Arabs, the people of Iran better
understood the message. This is not unusual and many prophets have been
rejected by their own people and embraced by other nations. Jesus is a
prominent example. I am not saying Arabs rejected the Prophet in the same
way that the Jews rejected Jesus. Arabs did their best to reject him but
the prophet triumphed after many struggles. Later, the ruling Arab
families returned in the guise of the caliphate to rule. The backlash
started with the rejection of Hazrat Ali and the open assault on the
prophet’s daughter Hazrat Fatima immediately after the prophet’s death
and later extended to the massacre of the prophet’s family at Karbala
after which centuries of autocratic oppression were reigned upon the
Muslim nations. Eventually, the Iranians who from the start had remained
loyal to the advice of the prophet about Hazrat Ali extricated themselves
from Arab rule and Iran became a ‘Shia’ country to uphold ‘velayate Ali’.
How big the tragedy and how enormous the sin, that we the people of Iran,
have now turned our backs to the teachings of Muhammad and Ali and
embraced ‘velayate fagih’ at the expense of ‘velayate Ali’. I pray to God
in this holy month of Ramadhan to bring an end to the evil un-Islamic
13-Emami regime and bring the worst chapter of Iranian history to an end.
I also pray that he may forgive those of us, I included, who had a hand
in easing the way of the satanic regime of IRI by facilitating the so
called Islamic Revolution.
I must add that in my view the Ottoman caliphate established by the
people of the old eastern Roman empire under the leadership of migrating
turks should not be viewed in the same light as the Ommayed and Abbasi
rules. Sunnism of the Ottomans was not directly related to the rejection
of the prophet’s advice. They inherited the tradition of caliphate and
were not responsible for the original deviation. It is also true to say
that the present Sunni stream of Islam is the continuation of the Ottoman
tradition although nominal allegiance to the four Abbasi court clergy is
still maintained.
>Ali wrote Nahj-il-balaqe as his prescription on how to live a
>righteous life.
>
Hazrat Ali did not write Hahj-ol-balage. This book was written about four
hundred years later by Seyed Razi. It claims to be a compilation of the
sayings and sermons of Hazrat Ali. There is however no evidence of the
accuracy of this book and I personally do not believe that it is an
accurate account. Some Shias however blindly accept it.
>Interestingly, many of our leftist brothers and sisters such
>Mujahedeen and other guerrilla movements attribute their
>militancy to Ali since he lived a very Spartan life, avoided
>luxury and did not hesitate to attack the enemy when needed.
>
It is so unfair to compare Ali, the lion of God, whose life was ended by
a terrorist’s sword to a terrorist group who among other things are
guilty of bombing the shrine of Ali-ibn-Musa-Al-Reza, the son and
successor of Ali.
Samad Ghazi-Tabatabai
Jeanette Youhana
Soheila Amiri wrote:
>
> "Yek Irani" <YekI...@ee.net> writes:
>
> >our resources celebrating Arab icons. Yet we are ready to "blow each
>others
> >brains out" for questioning our Bot.
>
> >RoozegAre ghareebeest nAzaneen
>
> >Yek Irani
na aziz-e man, roozegAre ghareebee neest,
shOmA gharibesh meekOny, you take the simplest
post and twist them around so bad that it makes
me laugh real hard!!!,
I don' know which "yek irani" you are, so therefore
I don't know what to call you, which is another
problem I have with your calling yourself "yek Irani"!,
I am not questioning your's or any1's yek irani boodan, BUT,
"YEK IRANI BOODEN DAR YEK IRANI KHANDEN-E KHOD NEEST"!
so don't try hard to prove you are "yek irani",
be "yek ensAn" before you try to be anything else!
and that is my own opinion.
Soheila Amiri wrote:
>
> Mr. Kharazzi,
>
> In light of my recent posting, requesting info. on Hazrat-e Ali(A)
> I assume your tidbit above in some way or another is directed to
> me among others. Your question here is why celebrate "Arab"
> icons Vs. "Persian/Iranian" icons.
>
> Let be point out the following as it pertains to me:
>
> I am not a star gazer, an Icon worshipper nor do I recognize
> many "celebrities" in any society as such. I, however, make
> it a point to study and determine for myself the truth about
> a subject matter, whether it is considered to be an icon in
> some eyes or not, whether it is a person and idea, etc.
>
> I am beginning to see the major dillema you seem to be having
> and that is you seem to have a problem with anything that
> has any kind of ties with an Arabic background. I have a
> strong feeling had I been seeking info. on Budhist monks
> as I pointed out in the earlier response to Cyroos you
> would not have jumped out of your seat so fast to opine
> so broadly (and baselessly IMO) on that subject.
>
> The national origins matter very little (if at all) to
> me when I set out to learn a subject. If I was to
> limit myself to boundaries of a certain nationality as
> you suggest above, my realm of understanding of the
> world would be very limmited and disadvantaged.
>
> Soheila
Soheila jAn, damet garm, I always wished that
I could write like you, but hey, then your writings
wouldn't look as good if it was duplicated :),
with your permision, I would like to put in my Akharin
dOzAry left from zamAnhAy-e tAghooty :)
one thing I have learned from my Tuesday night's
ErfAn shenAsy gathering which is also said by Hazrat-e Ali(A);
"man khOdA rA az tars-e jaHanam va behesht naparasteedam,
man khOdA rA bekhAter-e khOdash parasteedam".
And I should also say, that I come
from a very streak Catholic background, and have not
and NEVER will convert to any other religion, but
that does not mean I should not learn about other's
ImAn va e'teghAdAt, in fact my ErfAn shenAsy gathering
and BahA'y gatherings are some of the most enjoyable
times in my life. I love the people that i meet and
strive every moment to learn as much as I possibly can
from them.
All those differrent (yet the same) people.
If only "yek irani"s could use their imagination,
and see themselves up in the sky looking down at
everything and everybody,they would only realize,
"WE ARE ALL THE SAME".
Ali, Jesuse, Mohamad, Muses and the rest if
came to the Earth at this very moment, and
told every1 , "bAbA jAn dont fight with eachother,
we are all saying the samething, why do you create
wars over religion", every1 would tell them to go to
hell, trust me :)
bA ehterAm
Jeanette
Sam Ghandchi
Samad Ghazi wrote:
....
> The greatest blessing and honour of Iran is that our nation embraced
> Hazrat Ali’s authority and despite tremendous oppression remained loyal
> to the prophet and his appointed successor.
As far as I know, before Safavid Dynasty, the majority of
Iranians were Sunni.
- Sam
Sam Ghandchi
Massoud Ajami wrote:
>
> X-no-archive: yes
> In article <32FA0B...@netcom.com> Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com> writes:
> >From: Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com>
> >Subject: Re: Hazrat-e Ali(A)
> >Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 08:49:56 -0800
>
> >Samad Ghazi wrote:
> >....
> >> The greatest blessing and honour of Iran is that our nation embraced
> >> Hazrat Ali’s authority and despite tremendous oppression remained loyal
> >> to the prophet and his appointed successor.
>
> >As far as I know, before Safavid Dynasty, the majority of
> >Iranians were Sunni.
>
> >- Sam
>
> Mofeed; Seyyed Razi, and Seyyed Mortaza... KhAje naseer Toosi, the prim
> minister of Holakoo was im 12th century C.E.. Abou Ali Syna was Ismailii.
>
> I believe during the time of Safavied, the style of todays Shiaism as
> alAmat, kotal, beydagh, synezani and so on flourished, not Shiasm, and the
> State religion became Shia. The wife of Imam Hossein, the mother of 4th
> Imamm of Shia was the dougther of Yazdgerd sAsAny, which means the 4th Imamm
> is half Persian! So Iranians have more tie to religion than the mere rligion.
>
> Of course one should notice that the word "Shia" is not used just for Ali
> (AS) and his family. There were Shia Al-e AbbAs which they were living at
> the time of "Omavian."
>
> Up to 9th century C.E. Shia were minority, but after that they were the
> mojority, and in fact Abbasid were toppled by Holakoo in 13 century C.E.
>
> One point that is til the time of Safavies, the word Shia was refered to
> all kind shia not just Shia Imammiyeh (12 Imamms), and that is
> misconception to believe that Safavies just came and changed the religion of
> the country over night. Try to convert ONE Sunni to Shiasm. :)
>
> --
> Peace and Prosperity!
> ---==< 110 >==---
>
salAm Massoud,
1. Don't you see a difference between gholla't-e Shia'
and Shia'?
2. Even if we add up all the gholl'at-e Shia', would
they be more than a minority in pre- Safavid era?
Regards,
- Sam
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On 5 Feb 1997, Saeed Kharazi wrote:
> G-man Wrote:
>
> Snip
>
> >ajaaaaaaaab! [(c) shahrokh, 92]
> >
> >Saeed, YOU do not define what is, or should be, insulting to others;
>
> SalAm G-man jAn.How about " Making slanderous remarks about a person or his
> imediate family in a public forum is insult."
when will u grow up?
after becomuing 60 years old?
i bet not!
even Ms. Amiri expressed her disgust over your reaction.
who was here talking about slanderous remarks about a person or his
immediate or far away family?
you see we talk about footbAl u jump say
kharbozeh is banned by iri.
BTW cus u were fohsh khor by X u gotta fohsh some other people and their
idols?
> I think we can agree with
> that. I am even willing to say making profane remarks about people's idols
> can be considered indirect insult. But asking valid questions about those
> icons I do not think is insult if it is asked without profanity. There are
which asking questions?
Ms. Amiri didnt want or intend to discuss the reliability of Ali (s),
she just tried to find out information praising Ali (s),
but u tried a foolish action again and again to start misguide everything
and wevery1 towards your old lame arguments.
> books and articles writen about Jesus and Christianity in the west that
> question even Jesus' existance. Some wonder if Jesus is a person that is
> made up of a number of people and did not realy exist as many accept. Time
> or Newsweek just a few weeks ago did a cover page on the subject. Perhaps
> to some fanatic Christian in Utah those words may be insulting but to most
> people here it is part of their freedom of speech. Don't take me wrong if
> the Time magazine started by calling Jesus a Bastard then that would be
> insulting. But saying Jesus was born to a single mother I do not think
> should be insulting.
>
you do not think. but go to a church and say jesus was not the son of god
he was born by a khAki madar who didnt have a legimate husband
and see what u get from them.
they didnt ask u to start a discussion there or here
u just abused a thread ans simple kind question of a lady.
you and ur dAro dasteh
sorry but i wish we had a sci real tv so u guys could amuze us every minute.
i promise i write cenArios for u guys even be the director fee sabilel SCI!
> >THEY do!
... You're so full of contradictions and confusions. If
> >someone insulted Zartosht or Bahaullah here, you immediately cry
> >foul and attack them ( as you should ), but then you callously
> >attack a man who is one of the main pilars of Shiism, and even
> >more carelessly and stubbornly, keep defending your warped logic!!!
>
> Well I know you won't like my answer but If it was Zartoshtis and Bahai's
> who were killing Authors and Educators then I would be the first to attack
> them. Don't you see when IRI mixes Islam and politics they are making fight
> against the religion a political fight. The Clergy in Iran must realize
> that it is not just one person. Millions of Irranians are loosing their
> faith in Islam. The longer they torture and kill the more people will see
> this. Therefore the fight against Islam as long as IRI is in power is a
> political fight where as fighting Baha'is and Zartoshtis now would be
> considered religious persecution.
>
again irrelevant to MS. Amiri's question.
you could have started a thread discussin Ali(A) instead of showing your
foolishness and trying to catch fish from mud!
do that and see even i do care to respond to u?
> >Make up your mind! Do you
or do you NOT respect others' religion? >
> I do as long as their religion is not the means of keeping a corupt
> government in power.
>
> >If you don't respect theirs, don't come running to me ( a generic me )
> >with your ashko Aho nAleh that THEY did not repect you or
> >your religion because you will not get my sympathy! "A Sed Abdol"
> >asked a very valid question. Answer him!
>
> Azeez it is not ashko nAleh for me. I for the record will say that
> personaly I have never been subject of ANY religious persecution. But I
> feel the pain of those who have been and if I see people attempting to
> commit religious persecution then I will cry foul. Now to answer "A sed
> abdol"'s question. Seyed joon you are absolutely right. Insults do not
> work. But there has to be some sort of proper way to discuss such topics
> without inusulting people. When there is thousands of boooks writen in
> praise of a figure then there should be at least one article writen
> chalenging those views. There is no such thing in our culture. I understand
> so far 3 different authors have been killed accused of writing 23 sAl. Is
> bisto se sAl a book of insults or is it litrature?
>
there has been sort of proper discussion about anything.
i do discuss sexual stuff too but not in fronnt of kids or people who do
not
appreciate it.
if you are married sure u know what i mean! you do not watch many movies
with your kids or doi you?
i do not appreciate or have any interest to discuss anything religious in
a opublic forum.
religion is like nAmoos for some people!
i do not talk about nAmoos of people who are gheyrati, in fact i respect
their gheyrat!
have u ever seen ms. Amiri, Ms. nourani. or me or g-man and many others
get involve in a religion discussion?
havbe we fohsh any religion
have we post anything inviting others to any religion?
let people stay where they want.
you as u said r living for ages in usa and r happy u have american
citizenship, cheshmeh hasood koor asheh, mobAraket bAsheh,
hala neashestee bAd too ghab ghabet meendAzee migi lengesh kon.
how do u know what do people to keep human rights?
to be frankly and hionest with you
many people on sci who r called thugs , i know, who have done not their
best but further than that
to keep the human rights ands support mazloom against zAlem.
mAr zadan is cheap and suits internet.
be a man and just do what u believe in without braginbg about it!
that Ali(s) used to bring anonymously food to the home of hungry poor people!
one night they asked him why do u cover ur face why do you do it at
nights so no1 can see you?
he responded i do it for cus it is right not to buy credits for myself.
lie or right, many people who follow Ali (s) based on this try to act
like him.
this is the important thing not that trying to insult him whether it is a
lie or not.
his influence to make people better is the important thing!
i bet u wont get it, or do u ?
> >You can't go zir-Abi by just
>saying that "Questioning a
>man who > >lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to anyone. Calling
> >people "sag" in a public forum is. "! na AghA! ... As you have seen
> >already by the generally negative reaction to your statements,
> >the MAN you're talking about is, to many people, as moghaddas, if not
> >even more so, as themselves. Your reasoning is not even valid to
> >a 10 year-old Shiite boy! Stop justifying your attacks or you are
> >no better than anyone else who justifies theirs! Bigotry is in
> >keeping double-standards. So _I_ have to ask _you_ to apply your own
> >advice; " When will some of us finally stop being so bigoted"?
> >
> >G-man
>
> G-man jAN ask me any question in a calm manner about any figure you think
calm manner? sorry after being insulted again and again just bee gheyrat
people stay calm.
> is holly to me. Including Ashu Zartosht and even Koorosh and I will answer
> in the same calm manner. I just ask that people asking such questions about
> Baha, zartosht, ALi , Moahamd and other people who are Moghadas to some
> people not use profanity in their question. Otherwise I think it is all
> fair and we should never hold any person above being a human. That includes
> my idols. If I did not believe this then I agree with you. I would be a
> bigot.
>
> tandorost bAshid
khod gool zan nabashid
asemoono be reesmoon nadoozeed
A sed syavash
>
> Yek Irani
>
>
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On 5 Feb 1997, Yek Irani wrote:
> First let me say that I was torn between two great Persian proverbs before
> I replied to you. One the famous proverb you used "The answer to ignorant
ok just watch it out not being torn for a long time! i mean do not get
stuck there. we need you on sci! no chance i let ghamar khAnum series get
off the air.
so dont worry about proverbs just keep up collecting your cockroaches ,
pAk bAKHTEH JaN.
> people is ignorance" and second the one that says "Just
word has no
> answer". So my debate was: "do I ignore you because I know you are
> impossible to choose, or do I risk people thinking I was silenced because
> your word were JUST. Well as it is obvious I chose to say my 2 cents words.
> SO here we go for the record:
>
FIRST OF ALL I DO NOT GET A LITTLE SAD BY YOU CALLING ME INGNORANT! IF U
CALL ME INTELLIGENT THEN I GOTTA BE WORRIED CUS SOMETHING GOTTA BE WRONG
WITH ME.
second dont worry we all know nothing can close ur mouth and arajif! heck
u were born to be pAkbAkhteh and entertain us.
glad u replied ;-)
> Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote: >
> >On 3 Feb 1997, Saeed Kharazi (Yek Irani) wrote:
>
> > Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet <sa...@cfd.me> Wrote:
> >>
> >> snip...
> >>
> >> >ps: it is interesting people who talk about freedom of speech
> >> >show how easily how could they become some1 who not only insults other
> >> >people's believes but also use any means to take their rights from
> >> them.what a stupid funny
> >> >world we are living in it! and i do not know people who insult the
> >> >believes of other people , when finally will grow up and smell the
> coffee
> >> >that insults never works.
> >>
> >> Questioning a man who lived 1400 years ago should not be an insult to
> >you better start by questioning the existance of a small piece of brain
> >in your head, and the rest pishkeshet.
>
> I said nothing about you or your intelligence and you discount mine instead
> of stating your view.
what view that u r too besharm to lie?
u ask lies? ok i show u just one in the following!
> But I won't respond by questioning your intelligence.
> I blame your knee jerk reaction on social effect of our culture. Like all
namana? hAvAkh? man gediram san bilmiram?
culture o too zabooneh shomA bA cheh k ee mineveesan?
baba delet khosheh i told u r pAk bAkhteh not AghAyeh marhoom motevajeh ;-)
culture ro beekhial bechasb be sooskAt!
your fahashi in ur next posts and previous ones arew sure lots of culture!
culture seeri chandeh?
> cultures our society also has its good and Not so Good. The good is the
> indisputable facts that all our Persian originated cultural ideals are
> based on Neeki and love of nature. The not so good are the forced and
this reminds me of what we used to say in highscholl regarding some1 who
wanted just do notogh:
"Agha raft bAlA manbar"
baba joon i bet u have set ur computer balayeh manbar
if u have kids they r called AghA koochool o Agha moochool
and every day u do them be khat and ask your ayal join u and then u go
bala manbar hit the sci key
and put the screen on projector and say in bolandgoo:
AyAh bebinin agha koochool va agha moochool man daram pedaree az inA dar
meeAram
mobarezeyee mikonam ba iri ke khodeshun too iran belarzan
yad begeereen
ghAsem in ingilisiharo injoori too mamasani sci milarzoondam ;-)
> foreign elements of our culture that advocate blindly following the orders
> of so called "voices of God". I don't take insult in your recommendation.
facts cant be insults, ever ever!
> As a matter of fact I think you are right. I agree that my brain is mighty
> small compared to the knowledge and information that has been discovered so
> far by humans and the knowledge that has yet to be discovered. As one great
> Persian wise man said "All is known by everyone, and everyone has not been
> born yet". "hame cheez rA hamegAn dAnand va hamegAn hanooz zAdeh
forget about all, you have seen what portion of "All" you know!
baba jAn we r not talking about kharboze and tAlebi
we r talking about football: 22 players, 2 goals, 3 refrees one ball.
100000 tamashacheeyeh beekar ;-)
hala hey begoo chenin goft rostam be afraseeAb ageh mardi barayeh yek
irani eh pAk bAkhteh nooneh sangak biAr!
> nashodeand". This wonderful idea suggest that although there is knowledge
> that current generation is incapable of knowing and only the future
> generations will know. Yet he acknowledges that even the future generation
> will not have knowledge that previous generations were entitled to. So I
> admit my knowledge is "a small piece" compared to the vast amount of
> knowledge that is known to humans as of now and it is nothing compared to
> the universe of knowledge that is yet to be discovered by us. But as
> Ferdowsi said (actually yAdesh bekheyr Aliasghar EbrahimnejAd corrected me
> once that ferdowsi was quoting "peyghambare rAstgoo") "ze gahvAreh tA goor
> dAnesh bejoo" in English "from cradle to grave, seek knowledge". So next
> time someone tells you "This book is gook of GOD, Other than this book no
> other book is word of god. Those who believe in this book are 'Momen' and
> those who question this book are 'kAfar'" (Source: Quoran Albaghareh I
> think 1-4) you should think about Ferdowsi's advice that you should "seek
> knowledge instead of blindly following anyone.
>
bazam daree ghighaj miri gheseyeh hassan kordo migi!
tow ba man harf meezani az keseh deegeh bad nagoo!
baba bebinam machine ina tahala behet nazadeh? zamin nakhordi?
yeh doktor moktor beri vaseh havAset khub nistAn
where r u dr joon cyrus the greatfruit marazesh vageer dashteh engar ;-)
> >your crying on sci for 3 years reminds me of nothing except the old
> >serial movies on iranian national tv about 25 years ago, called "khAneyeh
> >ghamr khAnum". i suggest you choose the alias "AghAyeh pAk bAkhteh"
>
> Sadly I have to report to your highness that unfortunately when it comes to
> our beloved Iran, we are ALL pAkbAkhteh.
>
who is "we", u and ur daro dasteh?
those bacheh nonors that were taken out of iran by their parents and left
alone to get lost in the crowd of gharb and lose their idendity?
those who r shir behind computer copy every single word that some1
creates ( exactly like u , booboolie, boolie is invented by A sed abdol,
so dont use it without my mentioning copyrigfht, vagarnet momkeneh "sue"
t konam)
and meseh safeyeh khat khordeh hey sad ta sadta article mineveesan
va post mikonan roo sci?
i bet these were just enough brave that in case living in iran
would be scared to death and say Agha ghalat kardam agha man bee taghseeram.
baba bereed be kesse begeed ke shoma haro nashnaseh
shoma ha hata ESMETOONO AVAZ MIKONID TA AZ YEH CHESHM Abi yeh Hi begeereeed.
Yes Sir Yes Sir etoon sedAsh ta oon var meead! jam konin in bazaro,
bezareed melat be karo zendegeeshoon beresan.
> >or maybe even, "ghamar khAnum"-no offence intended to people having the
> name >"ghamar, i m just symbolizing him with that movie character.
>
> I suppose here you are talking to the rest of SCIers. I can't help but
at least once ur i supposed but was right!
> notice that you seem to think ALL these "SCIers" are agreeing with you.
> Although I admit most of them due to being exposed to the same social
> factors as you, are in agreement with you. However there is a growing
> minority whose thoughts are along the same lines as mine.
>
yes for 3 years u r mash yek irani mash dariush anooshfar, arash ...?
how many ? 3 or 5 oh thats alot!
i bet even kambiz cant calculate the rate of increase!
btw dont worry amsaleh shoma hameesheh boodan va hameesheh hastan
meesheenan kenar meegan lengesh kon
bad bagheeyeh keh karo kardan
miran donbeshoono takoon meedan
meegan AhAy manam manam boz bozeh ghandi!
> > you are no different from the same guy who started insulting your
> >family and fools like me defending your nAmoos. we didnt know, khodA daro
> >takhtaro be ham joor mikoneh", or for you : "An bist shenA koni"!
>
> I don't understand your second sentence but I comprehend your first
i am afraid u do not understand anything i say!
u just assume u understand!
> statement. I disagree with your comparison od me and binAmoos. More
ur disagreement with me is not just in this matter!
> importantly I do not recall you protesting binAmoos' attacks as you claim
sure u dont! but the rest sure do! adameh bad bakhto beecheshmo roo
hameesheh kam hafezast!
> you have. OK I see what you meant to day with your second comment. You
> meant "Ab neest". Well, all I ask is that everyone should get the chance to
> swim.
Ay moosheh koor bekhoratet pAk bAkhteh! mageh hameh eyne to forsat talabo
bee cheshmo roo an ke bekhan shenA konan o shenAgar bashan
> That is the only
>way we can judge people. Not by how we think they
> would swim, rather by how good of a swimmer they prove to be, once they are
> given a chance to swim.
>
ur gotta be a good swimmer! behet ne meeAd vali ahlesh hastee!
ama too khAb bini , jorbozeyeh forsat talabi ham nadaree!
sorry no orzeh in u!
> >i am really saddend you pull into "lajan" the name of kind zartoshti
> >people of iran.
>
> Again I never claimed I am the spokes person for the Zartoshtis rather that
either u claim or not, do u think any1 will give a flying hoot?
sure not! i guarantee u!
after all u claim u have been under unfairness in iran
felengo bastee oomadee usa nokaree mikoni!
i say u do nokari not cus u live here! i say it cus u r nokar sefat!
no insults, just saying facts!
> I personally believe in that religion. The great Zartoshti religion is far
> greater than me and to most Iranians it is an indispensable part of their
sorry but cus i respect zartoshti friends to protect their rights i cant
helpt it:
tow ghalat kardi claim mikoni u believe in zartosht religion.
they say kerdareh nik goftareh nik pendareh nik.
ur lieing, ur use of profanity for ages ( look at ur response to others
recently posted)
shows u just claim. i am not zartoshti so spare me out of it! but u claim
u r !
zartiosht va deenesh khuneh khalat nist ke harvaght bekhay az maman
joonet ghahr koni panah bebari toosh!
citizenshipam nist begee man shotror morgham iranian emrooz farda
americayee 2 Atasheh!
> heritage. We Iranians were the first to introduce the world to the concept
> of God Vs evil with AhurA vs Ahriman. That is something all Iranians
sorry but khab didi khgei basheh! ur statemwent shows how much u knopw
about religion.
btw we iranian not maybe u and dariush joonet and shorakat!
> including you should take pride in. That is also a far greater institution
should o bayad o kashtan dameh khunatoon chenar daroomad! man yeki should
o bayad nadaram!
> that me or any damage this mortal soul can bring to this great institution.
>
> >for centuries zartoshtis have been the symbol of adab and shakhsiat.
> >now you are trying to pull them with yourself into manjelAb.
>
> Again I remind you that my "manjelAb" is mine and mine only. Do not jusge
exactly my point! so dont pretend u r zartioshti! u r not!
when did i say i judge?
> the great Zartoshtis by judging me. Judge them by their treatment of
> "sagAne velgard" in yazd. Judge them by the achievements of pArsis in
oho baz raftee az ketabkhuneh ketab gerefti? vaghean ke chesh m nakhoree,
moosheh kooro kar bekhoratet indafeh!
> India. Judge them by the teachings of Ashu Zartosht. You can not blame
> Zartoshtis or Ashu Zartosht for my "words, deeds and thoughts" as much as
> you can not blame them for the wrong doings of sAsAnian.
>
la layee lala la la yee!
pak bakhteh joon man toro bA yek khari AshnAt mikonam
yAlo koopAlet bereezeh! spare sci ;-)
> >using the alias yek irani ( as a symbol of your racist existence) and
> being
> >proud of being an American citizen, attacking black American movements
> there
>
> Now wait just a second. You have been adversarial towards me ever since the
> Citizenship issue that came up about a year or so ago.
uhummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> I stated then as I
> will state now. I do not consider becoming a US citizen against being an
> Iranian citizen for because the government of Iran is one of the only two
> countries in the world (the other one is Israel) that allows dual
> citizenship.
forget the rules of government of iran! i do not disrespect people who
have to become american citizen.
but ur confession of being proud that u r american cirtizen and
ashkeh temsah on sci reminds me of the fact that during amir kabir era
all of rojol like u had british or russian ctizenship.
>Therefore even according to IRI
one can accept the citizenship > of US and still remain Iranian citizen.
>
> > (another symbol of racism), insulting a race ( arabs), pretending to have
>
>
> I challenge you to introduce any statements made by me to suggest attacking
> "black American movements".
akheh pak bakhteh fekr mikoni ba dasteyeh koora tarafee?
remember that black basketbalist protest and not standing up during
sorroodeh keshvareh azizet usa!
then u just attacked him calling he is one of those stupifd followers of
the ... ( fill in the blank) and later after ghalat kardanhAyeh zeeAdi be
ghalat kardam ..khordam oftadi sorry i jumped into conclusion so fast
he is not a follower of ..!
now u see this is what u do! u just judge people's actions according to
their believes and whether they r in ur side or not!
> I have always voiced my opposition to the so
> called "Aryan supremacists" and wish our Aryan leaders had one drop of
bazam ghati pati kardi amoo! boro ye Ab besooratet bezan biA beshin
az manbar nayoftee pAeen!
> humanity that ran through Dr. King's veins. As far as my remarks against
> Arabs, I will remind you that I have only made such statements where our
> national identity was challenged. I will also remind you that these remarks
oh pas to be miri to be miriyeh! hala ageh toh fohsh khordi az ardaban
tow bayad be harchee mosalmooneh fohshg bedi
bebinam to ke vatanetow frookhti deegeh az nastionality harf nazan
u claim u do things alot for iranians?
gooreh pedareh siyasat.
there is this young iranian dad in toronto
who has cancer and needs money to go under surgery! u say u have great
bussiness such that u have 1-800 number
i give u his bank account nt u can ask canadian media to see whether i am
right or wrong
see how much u r gonno protect an iranian
heck forget iranian
just a human being!
then no need to come to sci and fahashi
az Ali(s) Amooz ekhlAseh amal"
> were made only in the Iranian group. I am not sure if you have noticed that
> I have been very much considerate of our Arab neighbors' feelings and have
baba boro be yeki begoo tzeh varedeh! man toro inja bozorg kardam! pak
bakhteh u still donno who really i am do u ?
> been very careful when articles were cross posted to Arab groups. Whenever
> my comments were being cross posted to our Arabs neighbors' I have made
> extra effort to build unity rather than division. I truly believe our long
> term interest are so mixed with our Arab neighbors that any attempt at
> dividing Iranians and Arabs will only serve the enemies of both. However I
> am not apologetic about my comments about Arabs. When they are united
> against Iranians, we MUST be united in support of our interests.
>
>
dar bala goosheyee az amal kardeh khubeh yek bacheyeh dabestani ra
sareh saf mibinim! nakhunasho ham zeeresho tameez kardeh! afareen gol pesar!
>changed
>your religion to something you dont know a little of it, are all
> >facts showing your no1 better than shaboon bi mokh and just a thug but
> >such a beeorze coward one that cant do anything except sitting behind
> >computer. where have you been when others were defending your country
> >from its enemies, and defending your nAmoos, perhaps busy with finding
> >out a new name or religion or nationality?
>
> Coming from some1 sitting behind a computer this is really interesting. As
baba dont copy whatever i use! have some originality!
> far as calling me "a coward" I dare say the last thing you can accuse me of
> is coward since unlike the binAmoos that you compare me to, I have never
> been fearful of my identity nor my expression of my opinions no matter how
> unpopular.
>
u r coward cus as u said iri killed ur brother and u let it go!
and left country for a good fortune!
if some1 even pulls one hair from any of my relatives or friends
i will give them hell!
yes u r coward
u even send ur vakil to ardaban no guts to solve it urself!
tazeh hanooz ke ardaban injast!
pas in poolet cheh ghalato kardeh?
> >> anyone. Calling people "sag" in a public forum is. " When will some of
> us
> >> finally stop being so bigoted" A sed abodol.
>
> >saeed kharazi you are such a foll that thinking a name or changing the
> >name of a religion would do things good for you.
>
> I am not sure what kind of "good" you think I am receiving by my
> involvement in SCI but I assure you I would do more good for myself if I
> spend my time reading my trade magazines. This obsession with SCI does not
> make any of us "good" and goods.
>
ok "good"! so why insulting others?
> >you are using the same tool that the anonymous guy was using against you.
> >but u r too dumb to realize and see where he is now so you might get an
> >idea where you are heading. do me a favor keep positing
> >i love "khAneyeh ghamar khAnoom" that is one odf my favorites.
>
> What ever your majesty says.
>
ok khosham miad u close ur mouth finally and dont have anything to say!
> >sedA too galoo andAz az poshteh monitor nabAshid
> >sharmo hayA dAshteh bAshid
>
> >syavash
>
> AzAd bAshid
>
u mean cheap bAshid?
sorry cant be! i spare it for u!
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
i bet now u act as hAleh and singing : dasteh mAleh man hareereh!
;-)
On 4 Feb 1997, Yek Irani wrote:
> va...@netcom.com (habibollah valanejad) Wrote:
>
> snip..
>
> >Dear 1,
> >I'm not saying you can not discuss about the people. But when you discuss
> >about people, please keep in mind to have repects for people's believes
> >and religions, no matter what the religion is.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Habib
>
> Habib jAn I knew I can't last too long disagreeing with you. I agree 100%.
> Contrary to what some people think I am not just trying to muddy water and
> insult people's beliefs. I understand that we need to be considerate of
> other people's. I see people like this Cyrus guy who use profane language
> which can only serve the purpose of insulting people. I don't want to be
> like that. I will be the first person to tell this guy, he is out of line.
> My only intention in raising the issue was to recommend moderation in
> admiration of human figures. I agree that nothing is gained by insulting
> people or their convictions.
>
> pirooz bAshid
> Yek Irani
>
>
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Samad Ghazi wrote:
Dear Mr. Ghazi,
Thank you for your article. I think I learnt from it. If I may I have
some comments on a couple of your points below:
[snip]
> It is inaccurate to say that the Shia Sunni division is Hazrat Ali's
> legacy. Surely, his legacies are his authority of ‘velayat’, his example,
> his teaching and his guidance to mankind.
>
> The so called Shia Sunni divide was more of a political rather than a
> religious divide at the outset.
How true it must be! Moslems of the world are inherently united in
heart and mind except when and where Islam assumes a "state" - then,
violence begins [Iran and Pakistan] or _another_ "state" agitates [the
British advantages taken over politicized Islam of the old India].
Can we say, either way, mixing religion and state is ... perhaps
"un-Godly"?
> Hazrat Ali did not write Hahj-ol-balage. This book was written about four
> hundred years later by Seyed Razi. It claims to be a compilation of the
> sayings and sermons of Hazrat Ali. There is however no evidence of the
> accuracy of this book and I personally do not believe that it is an
> accurate account. Some Shias however blindly accept it.
This comment of yours on "the" book was a special relief to me!
A man of that dimensions could not have had scribbled such
words that one normally hears from bipeds having one eye on you
and the other on your loved ones!!
Of course four hundred years of mis-interpretations is enough time
to make a saint out of .... me (!) and an Ali Lover Paassdaar at a
street corner in Iran.
[snip]
> Samad Ghazi-Tabatabai
Regards,
Dariush.
Ghassem
__________________________________
banee Adam aa'zA-ye yek peykar-and
keh dar Afarinesh ze yek govhar-and
Saa'di
It seems to me that here on SCI, we have cultural crises rather than
political crisis. Culturally speaking, an Iranian name is not enough to
make a person an Iranian. It is rather that person's certain character
and qualities that distinguishes him/her to be an Iranian. For one reason
or another, some of us who are living in Western countries, specially
USA, have been melted into the cultures of the host countries and have
forgotten who we are and who we are supposed to be. Was it by
accident that the word "Iranians" means nobles ? or Do we really have
a great history and a rich culture which supports the meaning that makes
us nobles? Our great forefathers have gone through countless struggles,
through the very long history of ours, to keep Iran from falling into
destruction, in different periods of time, and gave it to us to safe guard
it today. We have a tremendous responsibility, culturally or otherwise,
on our shoulders not only to practice that nobility but to assure that it
remains clean of any ugly unwanted change and foreign invasion and
proudly pass it to our children for great future generations to come.
It hurts me greatly to see some of my brothers and sisters insult one
another for having different views, the very rude attitude, some of the
ugly words and western phrases, and specially profanities that are
used are far from being Iranian.
Nothing makes me happier to see SCI like a garden of beauty
full of different flowers of all kinds that the air to breath, the scents
to smell, the beauties to look at, the enjoyable sounds to listen to,
the delicious fruits to taste and the marvelous hands to shake
all give us the utmost pleasure of life that we need and make us
feel the inner peace within each other.
Imagine yourself walking in this garden of beauty as you pass
and cross one another, you will see nothing but the happy and
joyful expressions on each other's face that greets you.
Forget the bitter past that has irritated you
and press the hands that are stretched towards you.
On my humble request,
Would you help, take our heart-ache away from me ?
and you, would you?
Would you make all of us happy?
would you?
Promise me; would you?
Make the garden of beauty come through.
Regards: Ghassem 2/7/97
____________________________________
Ghassem
Here are some Quotes from Hazrat-e Ali ( Upon Him Be Peace )
about some of us. No harm or offence meant to anyone.
The followings were copied from a web page of which the address
you find at the end of this article. The quote numbers are original.
2-He who has no control over his tongue will often have to
face discomfort.
35- One who says unpleasant things about others, will himself quickly
become a target of their scandal.
40- A wise man first thinks and then speaks and a fool speaks first
and then thinks.
41- A fool's mind is at the mercy of his tongue and a wise man's
tongue is under the control of his mind.
31- There are four causes of infidelity and loss of belief in God:
hankering after whims,
a passion to dispute every argument,
deviation from truth;
and dissension,
because whoever hankers after whims does not incline towards truth;
whoever keeps on disputing every argument on account of his ignorance, will
always remain blind to truth, whoever deviates from truth because of
ignorance, will always take good for evil and evil for good and he will
always remain intoxicated with misguidance. And whoever makes a breach
(with Allah and His Messenger) his path becomes difficult, his affairs will
become complicated and his way to salvation will be uncertain.
_____________________________________________________
The above sayings were copied from the following web page.
_____________________________________________________
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~yusufali/islam/sayings/saying5.html
__________________________________________________
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Massoud Ajami wrote:
Ssalaam Massoud djaan,
[snip]
> One point that is til the time of Safavies, the word Shia was refered to
> all kind shia not just Shia Imammiyeh (12 Imamms), and that is
> misconception to believe that Safavies just came and changed the religion of
> the country over night. Try to convert ONE Sunni to Shiasm. :)
>
One point that is till the time of Safavids, the word shia was referred
to
_all_ kinds of shia not just shia Imammiyeh (12 imaams), and that has to
be a
misconception to believe Shaah Abbaass wasted his sleep time wearing
"Paassdaar"
uniform (?) at nights and spoiled the "Essfaahoonee rends'" good time
just
because he wanted them to have two more fingers to add up to 12! :)
And as to converting a sunni to a shia [you mean now? :)], Massoud djaan
you try to conquer a couple of Portuguese', then let me know, may be I
can conquer some Alexandrians and Bacterians, then we come back and
"andaazeh meegeereem" :)!
I am going to bid you good night now, but bfore that: what's the
difference
if someone is sunni or shia, as long as their only connection to God is
Mohammad (AS) the prophet? [or _even_ someone who is not either?].
My regards,
Dariush.
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 dari...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
>
> > that was exactly my point. for you and others like you, there is no meat
> > in being 'javanmard", heck you know why? cus javanmard people do not look
> > for meat or bones.
> > keep upp looking for bones or meat
> > but it wont do anything good to u, insulting others' belives.
> > as funny as u might think u r, others think u r no better than whom u r
> > trying to stop from profanity.
> > how is this? clear enough for u ? or shoiuld i waste my time more?
> > syavash
> >
>
> What is it exactly that you are trying to to say?!
never mind! you are not worth to get my points.
missing ur Djeer Djeer!
A sed syavash
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
[snip]
> A sed syavash
Ased Goozoo who has not yet decided what his/her name is on SCI.
Dariush.
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Massoud Ajami wrote:
> WassalAm Dariush-e aziz,
Wassalaame dowbaareh Massoud-e aziz,
>
> I bet you emphesized my point that by comming Safavies, the religion didn't
> changed over night.
Well in a way but what you say is more dear. I am trying to say
"tchashm aaghaa". :) Is that good enough?
>
> Changing Sunni to Shia was a sarcasim to show how hard it would be to change
> people from one to another.
>
Yes I got it. My response to that line of yours must have been
fortifying
then.
> About the differences, there is none if you ride on the surface; in
> politics; in way of life, and all, unles one wants to go a bit deeper in the
> philosophical point of understanding the Almighty, then the difference would
> show up. Sunni never believe that Ali was the soul of prophet even Quran
> say so, and they have their own reason. All Shias in their pray would ask
> forgivness as "almoslemoon wal moslemAt" which all Muslims are involved, no
> matter who.
>
"Eshgh aassaan nemood avval, valee owftaad moshkelhaa" [did I do this
"bey-t"
right?]
Well my dear friend your gradual scale goes like this:
Surface, politics, way of life, God. A good cadence I would say.
But what if we use the very same scale but we shift the origin to the
other end: God, way of life, politics and then surface? :)
God is above all, way of life comes above any other earthly matter
and _then_ politics is better tamed under it. Finally the
everyday toils of life like O.J. and the "Basseedjees" :)?
> Just remembered this jock that one guy dreamed that Immam Hossein and Shemr
> where sitting somwhere and talking, he was amazed and asked " but, but, but
> you two? Wheren't you? (read it in Buggs Bunny style). And they said eeh, we
> made up, the problem is those "rozeh khons" that always trying to make us
> fight! :)
Massoud djaan this indeed was a very good "jock"! :) I trust that you'd
give me the license to be this honest and friendly with you. However
your tempered convictions and moderate manners are simply enviable.
>
> I just remembered that I should have said "djaan" instead of "aziz" to show
> my promise of "dj" that I would use it for you! :) :)
I do remember that transaction. It was, perhaps, nearly two years ago.
However everytime I type any "dj" I somehow do remember that time.
Gee! Is that too romantic? :)
Regards,
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Massoud Ajami wrote:
>
> X-no-archive: yes
> >From: dari...@ix.netcom.com
> >Subject: Re: Hazrat-e Ali(A)
> >Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 02:53:45 -0800
>
> Dariush djaan aziz (here I said it :) )
Ssalaam with the hope of a very good weekend for you Massoud-e aziz,
Thank you for the correction and information on Haafez's poem.
[snip]
> >"Eshgh aassaan nemood avval, valee owftaad moshkelhaa" [did I do this
> >"bey-t"
> >right?]
>
> just needs a "ke" in front. Of course this is from Hafez which he took it
> from the poem of Yazid Ibn Mo`awiyeh wich says:
>
> : | | | : | : . | |||. |
> _o | |_| q q |_ _,_ ]_,_c |_o o q_o_w_o_|||_ |
> (_S / / (_/ : / . (_S ( /
>
> : | ||| | | | || | | |. | | / |
> _o |_w_|||_8_ | |_ |_|| |_8_|q |_ q |_w |_) > |
> (_S : : / / /
>
> >Well my dear friend your gradual scale goes like this:
> >Surface, politics, way of life, God. A good cadence I would say.
> >But what if we use the very same scale but we shift the origin to the
> >other end: God, way of life, politics and then surface? :)
>
> >God is above all, way of life comes above any other earthly matter
> >and _then_ politics is better tamed under it. Finally the
> >everyday toils of life like O.J. and the "Basseedjees" :)?
>
> | T . | .. | . | | . | .. | .
> o > |_ . | | __,_w |_8_o_7 , o > |_ . _ | | __,_w |_8_o_7
> . (_) / . (_): /
>
> | . T c . . = | . | .. : |:
> | _ | _w_7_ _) _8 , | _,_ | q_7_ q_ |_
> / (_S c / / / : (_S / / /
>
> You need a ladder to reach height! God is above all as you said.
>
> >Gee! Is that too romantic? :)
>
> Yes it is. What we are gonna do about it (read it as in "the days of our
> lives" ) :) :) :) i am joking, I am joking, and for that mater I am
> jocking. :)
>
You made me laugh outloud! :):):):). In the same line of talk we could
also say "We've got to stop meeting like this!" :)
> Peace and Prosperity!
> ---==< 110 >==---
Until later,
My regards,
Dariush.
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
dariush joon
i just love to see ur crying
did momy left you for las vegas without any
pocket money, again ?
dont be shy ask for it sci-er r not that mean they put a charity for your
movie ticket
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
>
> dariush joon
> i just love to see ur crying
> did momy left you for las vegas without any
> pocket money, again ?
> dont be shy ask for it sci-er r not that mean they put a charity for your
> movie ticket
>
There is an amusing lack of talent and creativity in whatever you type
on SCI. Have you ever considered joining one of the prominent
international papers? How about "Kayhaan-e Havaaee"? :)
Dariush.
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
On Sun, 9 Feb 1997 dari...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
> >
> > dariush joon
> > i just love to see ur crying
> > did momy left you for las vegas without any
> > pocket money, again ?
> > dont be shy ask for it sci-er r not that mean they put a charity for your
> > movie ticket
> >
>
> There is an amusing lack of talent and creativity in whatever you type
> on SCI.
he he i love it. asure some1 like u who does Djeer Djeer
and uses language that beri and cyrus the grape fruit uses
would be bored by my articles.
> Have you ever considered joining one of the prominent
> international papers? How about "Kayhaan-e Havaaee"? :)
>
well as far as i remember they were after some djeer djeer kon
sorry i am not qualified!
now tell us did u go to movie or not?
dari...@ix.netcom.com
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet wrote:
Shake a leg and learn the differences between vulgarity,
profanity and obscenity :). You do not need four letter
words to be vulgar.
Dariush.
Basim A. Reza
Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com> writes:
>Samad Ghazi wrote:
>....
>> The greatest blessing and honour of Iran is that our nation embraced
>> Hazrat Ali’s authority and despite tremendous oppression remained loyal
>> to the prophet and his appointed successor.
>....
>As far as I know, before Safavid Dynasty, the majority of
>Iranians were Sunni.
>- Sam
You are right, but Iranians prior to that always felt some sympathy toward
Ali and his family, especially his son Hussein... Indeed the entire movement
that led to the fall of the amuites and the changin of power to the hads
of the Abbasides had its root in the problem. People in Iraq and Iran were
still frustrated about what had happened to Hussein, and many still wanted
the khaliphat to be in the hands of the family of the prophet. The abbasides
were in family with the prophet. The movement as most of you probably know
started in Khurasan, and led to al saffahs succession as khaliphat of the
Muslims.
--
Basim A. Reza (ba...@diku.dk)
Sam Ghandchi
> >> Hazrat Ali’s authority and despite tremendous oppression remained loyal
> >> to the prophet and his appointed successor.
>
> >As far as I know, before Safavid Dynasty, the majority of
> >Iranians were Sunni.
>
> >- Sam
>
> You are right, but Iranians prior to that always felt some sympathy toward
> Ali and his family, especially his son Hussein... Indeed the entire movement
> that led to the fall of the amuites and the changin of power to the hads
> of the Abbasides had its root in the problem. People in Iraq and Iran were
> still frustrated about what had happened to Hussein, and many still wanted
> the khaliphat to be in the hands of the family of the prophet. The abbasides
> were in family with the prophet. The movement as most of you probably know
> started in Khurasan, and led to al saffahs succession as khaliphat of the
> Muslims.
> --
> Basim A. Reza (ba...@diku.dk)
Basim,
Thanks for the info. Also is it true that Abu Moslem Khorasani,
whose revolt was instrumental in the Fall of Ommavids and the
Rise of Abbasyds was Kurdish? Also there are the Kurds, who
currently live in the Eastern Iran in areas, such as Firooz Kooh
or Khorasan, who sometimes make whole villages, such as some villages
in the vicintiy of Firooz Kooh (on the road from Tehran
to Sari). Have they immigrated to those areas of Iran
for that long?
Thanks,
- Sam
Seyed Abdolreza Ebrahimi-Sabet
Areh donbeto bejon boon
nakhAstee :
lavandee be rAst lavandee bechap kon
boro jelo tA bekhoree be deevAr
Ab bandee shi
Mehram Maleki
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:19:39 -0800, Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com>
wrote:
> Also is it true that Abu Moslem Khorasani,
> whose revolt was instrumental in the Fall of Ommavids and the
> Rise of Abbasyds was Kurdish? Also there are the Kurds, who
> currently live in the Eastern Iran in areas, such as Firooz Kooh
> or Khorasan, who sometimes make whole villages, such as some villages
> in the vicintiy of Firooz Kooh (on the road from Tehran
> to Sari). Have they immigrated to those areas of Iran
> for that long?
> Thanks,
> - Sam
The Kords of Khorasan were settled there by Nadershah to block the
ever-present raids from the northern Torkamans. Later this proved so
successful that it started to backlash. Now Kords were raiding the
Torkamans in north!
Mehram
Sam Ghandchi
Mehram Maleki wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:19:39 -0800, Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Also is it true that Abu Moslem Khorasani,
> > whose revolt was instrumental in the Fall of Ommavids and the
> > currently live in the Eastern Iran in areas, such as Firooz Kooh
> > or Khorasan, who sometimes make whole villages, such as some villages
> > in the vicintiy of Firooz Kooh (on the road from Tehran
> > Thanks,
> > - Sam
>
> The Kords of Khorasan were settled there by Nadershah to block the
> ever-present raids from the northern Torkamans. Later this proved so
> successful that it started to backlash. Now Kords were raiding the
> Torkamans in north!
> Mehram
Mehram,
Abu Moslem KhorAsAni lived centuries before Nader Shah.
And I have heard that he was a Kurd. That should mean that
Kurds had been in East of Iran long before Nader's
transmigrations.
Also, years before the revolution, I have been to villages
around Firoozkooh myself, and saw some villages where the
whole village spoke Kurdish. These areas are very far from
KhorAsAn. They are closer to damAvand of Tehran.
I think most Kurds whom you are referring to, currently live
near Bojnoord, located between Gorgan and Mashhad, which is
near Turkmen sahrA, I am not sure though.
Regards,
- Sam
Sam Ghandchi
I had written:
> Also is it true that Abu Moslem Khorasani,
> whose revolt was instrumental in the Fall of Ommavids and the
> Rise of Abbasyds, was Kurdish?
I just had an email from one of the SCI folks,
who wrote to me, that Abu Moslem was not a Kurd.
Actually after I had posted my article on SCI,
someone sent me a reply and said this. This
is why I asked if it was true, because I have
not done the research about Abu Moslem.
I hope folks who have done the research on
this topic to post so that we know what the
facts are.
Thanks,
- Sam
Mehram Maleki
On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:35:31 -0800, Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com>
wrote:
Abu Moslem KhorAsAni lived centuries before Nader Shah.
And I have heard that he was a Kurd. That should mean that
Kurds had been in East of Iran long before Nader's
transmigrations.
I don't know anything about Abumoslem other than what I can
remember from elementary school. Don't have any source on him
with me either.
Also, years before the revolution, I have been to villages
around Firoozkooh myself, and saw some villages where the
whole village spoke Kurdish. These areas are very far from
KhorAsAn. They are closer to damAvand of Tehran. I think
most Kurds whom you are referring to, currently live near
Bojnoord, located between Gorgan and Mashhad, which is
near Turkmen sahrA, I am not sure though.
You are right. I am referring to Kurds of Ghuchan, Bojnurd,
Daregez, etc. But the sources I have all imply the transplanted
Kurds were made to settle along the whole borders to Torkamans
and Ozbaks from Gorgan to Ghuchan. My sources also say it was
Shah Abbas the First who settled them around 1600 A.D. Presently
I don't remember where I read Nadershah did it. But Curzon
["Persia and the Persian Question", Frank Cass & Co. Ltd., page
191.] and Iraj Afshar Sistani ["ilhA, chadorneshinAn va tavAyefe
ashAyeriye irAn", Nasle Danesh, 1368, volume 2, page 984] point
to Shah Abbas. Somewhere I read Nadershah's own mother had been
raped and killed by Torkamans when he was a small boy living in
one of the border areas, and this made him later to put Kurds in
between Khorasan and Torkamans to block their ways south.
Could it be that around Firuzkuh you witnessed the tribes in
their "yeylAgh" season coming originally from north-east Gorgan
area? Was it Summer when you were there?
There is another possibility also. Afshar Sistani says there are
about 20 different tribes from all over Iran living in southern
slopes of Alborz east of Tehran. He quotes some French researcher
claiming these tribes have been brought to these areas from their
original areas not as warriors but to be held for hostage puroses
during and after Zandiyeh period when Tehran became more and more
important. Some of the Kurdish ones that you saw could have been
brought from North Khorasan or Kurdestan proper.
In any case none of what I have with me indicates Kurdish
presence before Shah Abbas. The best source for this question
must be a two-volume work by Kalimollah Tavahhodi Owghazi titled
"harkate tArikhiye kord be khorAsAn" [Kushesh Press, 1359, and
Ferdowsi University Press, 1364]. I don't have it but a quotation
from it in Afshar Sistani's book indirectly and implicitly shows
Tavahhodi also must've put the time at around 1600 A.D.
But there is yet a little clue for me to Kurds' existence in
Khorasan before Shah Abbas! I checked Mo'in which says when Shah
Abbas was little, some "Aligholikhan Shamlu" was governing
Khorasan in his name until he grew up. But "Shamlu"s according to
Afshar Sistani have been originally Kurds of Syria (shAm). This
points to yet an earlier transplantation of Kurds to Khorasan.
Perhaps this practice of bringing warriors to Khorasan to fight
back the Torkamans was common for whoever ruled in Khorasan.
Mehram
Sam Ghandchi
Mehram Maleki wrote:
>
....
> Could it be that around Firuzkuh you witnessed the tribes in
> their "yeylAgh" season coming originally from north-east Gorgan
> area? Was it Summer when you were there?
>
Actually I was there in winter time and the residents
were not ashAyer.
But thanks a lot for extensive resources. Also your
thoughts about the villages around Tehran and Yilagh
and Gheshlagh could be looking in the right direction.
It is amazing how much many of these villages are
originally from other areas of Iran. For example, the
residents of eigel, AhAr, and ShikarAb, which are just
a few kilometers North of Tehran, near Oshoon and Fasham,
are completely from Mazandaran and speak Tabari
language (or Tabari dialect depending on the source).
I think settlers of these areas had been doing yilAgh and
gheshlAgh, from Kojoor and Noor before settling down North
of Tehran. It is amazing that they have still kept
their language and customs intact.
Your note about Zandieh and bringing some tribes around Tehran
as hostage was new to me. I did not know. Also
your note about "Shamloo" was new to me. I always thought
they were a Tukish tribe originally from Ottoman Empire, rather
than being Kurdish tribe from Damascus.
Regards,
- Sam
Mehram Maleki
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:37:03 -0800, Sam Ghandchi <sa...@netcom.com>
wrote:
[...]
It is amazing how much many of these villages are
originally from other areas of Iran. For example, the
residents of eigel, AhAr, and ShikarAb, which are just a
few kilometers North of Tehran, near Oshoon and Fasham,
are completely from Mazandaran and speak Tabari language
(or Tabari dialect depending on the source).
I think settlers of these areas had been doing yilAgh and
gheshlAgh, from Kojoor and Noor before settling down North
of Tehran. It is amazing that they have still kept their
language and customs intact.
[...]
Indeed. But there is also another process that occasionally is at
work. Sometimes the ethnic groups don't change places but other
languages and customs travel to and through them and take over.
Quite efficiently indeed. See for example what happened recently
to people of "dashte Ghazvin" (?- I mean the large flat area a
little to the south of Tehran-Ghazvin line). All these people in
early 1300s (solar hejri) according to Ale Ahmad who visited the
area frequently, spoke the ancient Persian language of "tAti"
which is very close to what the Medes spoke, a language that had
stayed there at least since three thousand years back. But when
he visited them only 20 years later in 1334 half of them spoke
Turkish and the other half was quickly giving in to Turkish
language. Ten years after that, in Summer 1344, I happened to
spend two months in three of those villages visiting some of the
old relatives of my grandfather, and saw and heard of no-one who
spoke anything other than Turkish. I don't know how things are
now but I bet the Tati language in that region is wiped out and
all is left is Turkish while the people there are not Turks and
didn't speak it before. Ale Ahmad in 1334 could trace the
geographical extent of the recent Turkish take-over of the
language by noting that while they spoke Turkish all the tools
they used still had Tati names.
This was an example of language take-over. Similarly customs can
quickly change. In the same area Ale Ahmad noted that only one
Kurd family, a husband and a wife, in the course of 30 years had
changed the entire custom of dancing and milking the livestock
among people in the two villages that he studied. This is very
fast and very efficient. So customs travel very fast too.
I don't know this kind of change is the exception or the rule.
Ale Ahmad didn't give the reason, perhaps couldn't find it (or I
might have forgotten what he said). But even as exceptions their
effects are nothing like "exceptions". I mean what's the
difference between a Kurd who became Torkaman in his customs and
language, and a kurd who became Turk who became Fars who became
Torkaman?
But strictly speaking other clues in this same example point to
it being a very odd exception since the settled people of Iran
have very different dialects almost adjacently from village to
village, and sometimes to the extent that it makes it hard to
understand each other. Ale Ahmad studied two close villages which
still talked Tati in 1334 but as distinctly different dialects.
Imagine this! their languages couldn't influence one another
through thousands of years while they lived close to each other,
and in fact slowly diverged, and now another language comes from
Zanjan and Maragheh and wipes all of them out in the course of
only 50 years, without any military invasion or any population
movement.
It should be a little easier to assess their origins if they are
ashAyer cause they are much more difficult to influence. But even
ashAyer in Iran have frequently changed roles with the settlers,
mixing up their ethnic backgrounds. Very often during Iranian
history the settled have had to run away to the mountains and
adopt or re-adopt nomadic life to stay away from natural and
man-made troubles.
Mehram
AccessGuru
Mehram Maleki wrote:
>You are right. I am referring to Kurds of Ghuchan, Bojnurd,
>Daregez, etc. But the sources I have all imply the transplanted
>Kurds were made to settle along the whole borders to Torkamans
>and Ozbaks from Gorgan to Ghuchan. My sources also say it was
>Shah Abbas the First who settled them around 1600 A.D. Presently
I don't remember where I read Nadershah did it. But Curzon
>["Persia and the Persian Question", Frank Cass & Co. Ltd., page
>191.] and Iraj Afshar Sistani ["ilhA, chadorneshinAn va tavAyefe
>ashAyeriye irAn", Nasle Danesh, 1368, volume 2, page 984] point
>to Shah Abbas. Somewhere I read Nadershah's own mother had been
>raped and killed by Torkamans when he was a small boy living in
>one of the border areas, and this made him later to put Kurds in
>between Khorasan and Torkamans to block their ways south.
>Could it be that around Firuzkuh you witnessed the tribes in
>their "yeylAgh" season coming originally from north-east Gorgan
>area? Was it Summer when you were there?
I am looking for a people called the Firozkohi who I believe may have
entered the Chahar Aymaq confederation in what is now Afghanistan.
I believe they were added to the coalition by Shah Abbas. The Chahar
Aymaq were mostly Chagatai Turks who were confederated to
protect the border against the Uzbeks. I suspect that the Firozkohi
were a Persian tribe or people from out of the area that was added
in by Shah Abbas. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions
you may have.
Best wishes,
J. Barry O'Connell Jr.
Acces...@AOL.com Washington DC Area
Former Consultant to Government and Business
All activity from this address is purely personal and not on behalf of anyone else.