Ali Dashti & Neo-Sufism (to Nima R, Joubin, marabeboos, Qizilbash)
Freethought110
Century Iran (neo-Sufism in Iran includes the modrnizing efforts of
groups like the Anjoman-e Ukhovvat, Kayvan Qazvini, et al) Dutch
scholar Matthies van de Boss quotes information from various
unpublished sources in Persian which assert with reliability that Dr
Ali Dashti was actually a Sufi and disciple of the modernist Sufi
iconoclast (and self-styled master) Kayvan Qazvini (d. 1938?). I have
the relevant chapter of the dissertation and can later quote the
sources of this information, if need be. However I wanted to bring
this matter to your attention because it proves that Dashti was *not*
anti-Islamic but an anti-traditionalist Iranian Muslim moderniser like
his teacher Kayvan Qazvini. Kayvan Qazvini is, not doubt, a
controversial figure. However he was by no means anti-Islam. Quite the
contrary.
You will note that Kayvan Qazvini had been a shaykh of the
Ni'matullahi master Hajj Muhammad Hasan Safi Ali Shah Isfahani
(d.1899) (founder of the Safialishahi branch of the Ni'matullahi Sufi
order) but after the latters death became a disciple of the Gonabadi
branch of the Ni'matullahi Sufi order. He later broke publically with
Mr Tabandeh and refused to acknowledge him as qotb/pole of the
Gonabadi-Tawusiyyeh Ni'matullahi order and set about criticizing the
entire structure and practices of Iranian Sufism with its ranks,
hierarchies and centuries of accreted superstitions. In that respect
Qazvini can likened to an Ahmad Kasravi (who was his contemporary and
colleague at Tehran university), but one who did not necessarily
disavow Sufism altogether. Rather Qazvini wanted to bring Sufism into
the 20th century and expose the wrangling, splits, mutually exclusive
spiritual authority claims, etc, and modernise Sufism and Islam
completely.
In this light, a re-appraisal of Ali Dashti's 23 Years in in order.
Freethought110
his introduction to his edition of Lahiji's _Mafatih al-I'jaz fi Sharh
Golshan-e Raz_ (Commentary on [Mahmud Shabistari's] Garden of
Mysteries) where he plays off and compares the ideas of German
philosophers Fichte and Hegel with Indian Vedanta and Iranian Sufism.
This introduction is highly instructive as to the discourse and
meaning of Neo-Sufism, as opposed to the uncritical Islamic
traditionalism of others (including Western traditionalists like
Guenon, Schuon, et al, and their uncritical hagiographical
traditionalist approach to Sufi texts).
freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03082...@posting.google.com>...
Alexix
Why you address your posts to only certain readers here. Are these readers,
and possibly you Sufi?
Thank,
Just curious!
"Freethought110" <freetho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Freethought110
consider Ali Dashti a great intellectual and one of the first
modernized Muslims who (like his 19th century European counterparts
regarding Biblical high criticism) began the process of critical
historical inquiry regarding the origins of Islam and the life of its
prophet using modern academic methodologies and analysis. These people
who know little about modern critical historical academic inquiry or
Iranian modernist figures vilify the memory of this poor man and think
he was an anti-Muslim imperialist lackey, etc, when it turns out the
guy was actually a modern yet Sufi Muslim who wanted to bring these
discussions of Islamic origins into the 20th century and strip them of
the silly superstitions, myths and fables.
"Alexix" <Some...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ac11b.9921$S_.1364@fed1read01>...
Nima Rezai
Nima R.
"Freethought110" <freetho...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
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Joubin
freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03082...@posting.google.com>...
qizilbash
I haven't kept up with the history of the 20th century. Who is Kayvan
Qazvini and Anjoman-e- Ukhovvat? Btw when did the division of
Ne'matullahi order began? If I recall there is three branches
currently?
In the Ahl-e-Haqq order there is 11 Khaandaans orders, but they sprung
up around the same time and mutually accept each other. Also do you
know if Sabzevardi was a sufi or just an 'Aref?
Khwuda yaar o yaavaretaan
freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03082...@posting.google.com>...
Freethought110
> Chaakerim Ghorbaan,
Ghabeli nadaareh, aziz~
> I haven't kept up with the history of the 20th century. Who is Kayvan
> Qazvini
Like I said, he was initially a murid and shaykh of Safialishah but
after the later died became a Gonabadi-Ni'matullahi and then after a
few years broke with them, too. He was a Sufi modernizer who thought
that the sturcture of the orders/turuq was problematic and
authoritarian. Look at the entry on him in Mo'in's dictionary and
Dehkhoda.
>and Anjoman-e- Ukhovvat?
A Sufi-freemason order (or Iran's homegrown Freemasonry) that came
about through the efforts of Zahir'o-Dowleh Safa' Ali Shah, the
successor of Safialishah. It was around until the revolution. SH
Nasr's family were at one time heavily involved in the Anjoman.
>Btw when did the division of
> Ne'matullahi order began?
When Reza Ali Shah Deccani made contact with the Iranian sufis and
brought the Ni'matullahi back to Iran after 200 years.
>If I recall there is three branches
> currently?
More, the branches are:
Ni'matullahi-Munawwaralishahi-Munis Ali Shahi - headed by Javad
Nurbakhsh (there are several sub-branches of this branch which do not
acknowledge Nurbakhsh as pir/qotb)
Ni'matullahi-Kowsariyyeh - ?
Ni'matullai-Shamsiyyeh - headed by one Mr Movvahedi in Iran
Ni'matullahi-Safialishahi - one branch is headquartered in Holland and
headed by Safialishah II, the others are in Iran, and the Anjoman-e
Ukhovvat is now defunct.
N'imatullahi-Gonabadi - headed by the Tabandeh family of Gonabad who
are successors of Sultanalishah and are now in Western Europe
Ni'matullahi-Khaksar - the pir of this order, Majzubalishah was put in
jail by the IRI, made to do a forced televised confession and died
under my mysterious circumstances back in the mid 90s.
> In the Ahl-e-Haqq order there is 11 Khaandaans orders, but they sprung
> up around the same time and mutually accept each other.
Tell me more about the divisions among the reformists headed by Bahram
Elahi and the conservative khandans back in Iran who, I believe, are
lead by the Haydari family, correct?
> Also do you
> know if Sabzevardi was a sufi or just an 'Aref?
He apparently was both, but I have not been able to find out which
order he belonged to. Nureddin Chahardehi in his KHAKSAR VA AHL-E HAqq
says Hajj Mullah Hadi Sabzevari was a Khaksar, but the Khaksar Sufis I
have spoken to say this is not true.
> Khwuda yaar o yaavaretaan
Ya Ali maddad ;-)
qizilbash
here and there.
> Like I said, he was initially a murid and shaykh of Safialishah but
> after the later died became a Gonabadi-Ni'matullahi and then after a
> few years broke with them, too. He was a Sufi modernizer who thought
> that the sturcture of the orders/turuq was problematic and
> authoritarian. Look at the entry on him in Mo'in's dictionary and
> Dehkhoda.
Thanks for the information. I have Dehkhoda on CD-rom. Do you know
if Moi'n Farhang is also available?
>
> >Btw when did the division of
> > Ne'matullahi order began?
>
> When Reza Ali Shah Deccani made contact with the Iranian sufis and
> brought the Ni'matullahi back to Iran after 200 years.
Baba maa iranihaa ham hamash mizanim too sareh ham digar.
>
> >If I recall there is three branches
> > currently?
>
> More, the branches are:
>
> Ni'matullahi-Munawwaralishahi-Munis Ali Shahi - headed by Javad
> Nurbakhsh (there are several sub-branches of this branch which do not
> acknowledge Nurbakhsh as pir/qotb)
> Ni'matullahi-Kowsariyyeh - ?
> Ni'matullai-Shamsiyyeh - headed by one Mr Movvahedi in Iran
> Ni'matullahi-Safialishahi - one branch is headquartered in Holland and
> headed by Safialishah II, the others are in Iran, and the Anjoman-e
> Ukhovvat is now defunct.
> N'imatullahi-Gonabadi - headed by the Tabandeh family of Gonabad who
> are successors of Sultanalishah and are now in Western Europe
> Ni'matullahi-Khaksar - the pir of this order, Majzubalishah was put in
> jail by the IRI, made to do a forced televised confession and died
> under my mysterious circumstances back in the mid 90s.
Yes I heared about his case. Thanks very much for the above
information.
>
> Tell me more about the divisions among the reformists headed by Bahram
> Elahi and the conservative khandans back in Iran who, I believe, are
> lead by the Haydari family, correct?
Well the Elahi family is actually member of khaandaan Shah Hayyasi.
There are 11 Khandaans: Shah Ibrahimi(Our old SCI friend syavash),
'Aali Qalandar, Baba Yaadgaaar, Seyyed Abul Vafa, Khaandaan Mir Sur,
Khaandaan Seyyed Mosafa, Khaandaan haji Babu Isaa, Khaandaan Zon-nur,
Khaandaan Atash Bag, Khaandaan Shah Hayyas, and Khaandaan baabaa
Heydar. I do not have too much detail about the division between
reformist and conservatives other than one division is based on the
fact that some follow the shari'a laws and some don't and the other is
that some say Ahl-e-haq is like a Maslak in Mazhab Shia Ithna Ashari
and other say it is mostaghel from Eslaam.
>
> > Also do you
> > know if Sabzevardi was a sufi or just an 'Aref?
>
> He apparently was both, but I have not been able to find out which
> order he belonged to. Nureddin Chahardehi in his KHAKSAR VA AHL-E HAqq
> says Hajj Mullah Hadi Sabzevari was a Khaksar, but the Khaksar Sufis I
> have spoken to say this is not true.
Very interesting. I also have heared that he was a masterful musician
do you know anything about that?
Freethought110
> Sorry with the late reply.. I have been busy trying to submit papers
> here and there.
No problem.
> Thanks for the information. I have Dehkhoda on CD-rom. Do you know
> if Moi'n Farhang is also available?
Don't know. Where did you get the CD-ROM of Dehkhoda? In the US? I
heard this was coming out. Tell me what it's like.
> Baba maa iranihaa ham hamash mizanim too sareh ham digar.
Yup ;-)
> Yes I heared about his case. Thanks very much for the above
> information.
No problem.
> Well the Elahi family is actually member of khaandaan Shah Hayyasi.
> There are 11 Khandaans: Shah Ibrahimi(Our old SCI friend syavash),
> 'Aali Qalandar, Baba Yaadgaaar, Seyyed Abul Vafa, Khaandaan Mir Sur,
> Khaandaan Seyyed Mosafa, Khaandaan haji Babu Isaa, Khaandaan Zon-nur,
> Khaandaan Atash Bag, Khaandaan Shah Hayyas, and Khaandaan baabaa
> Heydar. I do not have too much detail about the division between
> reformist and conservatives other than one division is based on the
> fact that some follow the shari'a laws and some don't and the other is
> that some say Ahl-e-haq is like a Maslak in Mazhab Shia Ithna Ashari
> and other say it is mostaghel from Eslaam.
Thanks for the info.
> Very interesting. I also have heared that he was a masterful musician
> do you know anything about that?
No, I didn't know.
qizilbash
>
> > Sorry with the late reply.. I have been busy trying to submit papers
> > here and there.
>
> No problem.
>
> > Thanks for the information. I have Dehkhoda on CD-rom. Do you know
> > if Moi'n Farhang is also available?
>
> Don't know. Where did you get the CD-ROM of Dehkhoda? In the US? I
> heard this was coming out. Tell me what it's like.
It is very user friendly and affordable. Also besides the dictionary
there are articles by Mo'in and others about Persian and Iranian
languages which I found interesting. The interface is very friendly
and works well with XP, NT and others. Also it stores the words you
have looked up and has many other nice features.
http://www.iranbookshop.com/search/more.cfm?ID=6792
Khoda Negahdar.
Freethought110
How much?
qizilbash
qizi...@yahoo.com (qizilbash) wrote in message news:<d2d16dac.03082...@posting.google.com>...
> The price is so little it seems unbelievable. $26.
> See below:
>
> http://www.iranbookshop.com/search/more.cfm?ID=6792
>
>
> qizi...@yahoo.com (qizilbash) wrote in message news:<d2d16dac.03082...@posting.google.com>...