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Let's not leave IRAN alone .

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PurpleT68

unread,
Jun 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/16/96
to

Ham meehanan,let's not leave our homeland alone .We never left in our
hearts .Iran, my beautiful, my kind, my pure land of love. With my last
breath ,or maybe my last cent,my humble soul will be there for you.You are
still standing, you have stood throughout centuries ,you suffered ,you
endured in silence,like the greatest of the magicians you transformed hate
to love, cruelty to compassion, abuse to fairness, stone to fire,drought
to rain.you are above the mediocre mortals that condemn you,pity them
Iran, they never knew you.We never left you,we will never let you down
again we have learnt, that what you taught us was to be human,to stand
tall in generosity, to be fair to all mankind, to be persian ,to be
proud,to forgive, to respect,these good things were what you taught
us,that's what you wanted us to learn.Let us not forget that the message
of being born iranian is much more than what a lot of ignorants want to
reflect from us,that we are barbaric,forgive them,they never knew that the
way to know a nation is to read about them, learn and study their
tradition, their history, their heritage,these people are a minority who
never knew any better,they just reflect their own pitiful existance,they
are but dust in the wind of the humanity, continuously circling the same
karmic wheel without learning the lessons of love, respect and evolution
of intellect.Let us never leave Iran ,in heart and soul but showing the
world entire that light will remain, and no darkness will destroy
it.Thankyou for having me here on Soc.culture .iranian,sometimes.peace .
Persian and Proud

Kitty

unread,
Jun 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/17/96
to

Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian lady
who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her, hear
her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and the
pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned. A country that has
been neglected. A dream that has been shattered into a thousand peaces.
A knife that has been stabbed into her heart. A love taken away... and
the voices, the evil voices of darkness... they hunt her... they hunt
her at night when she dreams about the beautiful land... she hears their
voices calling her an alien... she hears the noises that get louder as
every peace of Iran is being destroyed. She hears everything that you
say... but does she hear your heart? Does she know that you truely love
Iran too? I let her know, I let everyone know... and she lets me know.
Now I feel as I have someone to share my pain with... to tell my dreams
to... to get help and close my heart to the evil voices of darkness...
There are many of us who are proud. Proud to be Persains and proud to be
us. And the ones who think it does not matter... it does. It matters
very much. I have tried to debate about this issue several times but
always there is a force keeping me back... holding me from speaking the
truth... And this force is being destroyed as I hear others say, that
they feel how I feel too. And they are the great ones. Nationalism is
needed for every country's success. All successful countries use
nationalism. And we, indeed, need some great nationalists of our own. We
should be proud to have one (actually 2 that I can think of) In our
group.


nationalist bAshid,

Kitty


'Bakhtiari' S Mehrabi

unread,
Jun 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/17/96
to PurpleT68

Dooorooood! Can't say anything other than BEAUTIFULLY SAID! Zende
bad! As for Iran, well let me assure you there are anough Iranians with
the same love for our country to defend it and our people and to raiseit
above all others. We will fight until the last one of us to defend Iran!
Basically Iran's existance is ours and vice versa!

ZENDE BAD IRAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sultan

Idin joon

unread,
Jun 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/17/96
to

Kitty wrote:

>
> purp...@aol.com (PurpleT68) wrote:
> >Ham meehanan,let's not leave our homeland alone .We never left in our
> >hearts .Iran, my beautiful, my kind, my pure land of love. With my last
> >breath ,or maybe my last cent,my humble soul will be there for you.You are
> >still standing, you have stood throughout centuries ,you suffered ,you
> >endured in silence,like the greatest of the magicians you transformed hate
> >to love, cruelty to compassion, abuse to fairness, stone to fire,drought
> >to rain.you are above the mediocre mortals that condemn you,pity them
> >Iran, they never knew you.We never left you,we will never let you down
> >again we have learnt, that what you taught us was to be human,to stand
> >tall in generosity, to be fair to all mankind, to be persian ,to be
> >proud,to forgive, to respect,these good things were what you taught
> >us,that's what you wanted us to learn.Let us not forget that the message
> >of being born iranian is much more than what a lot of ignorants want to
> >reflect from us,that we are barbaric,forgive them,they never knew that the
> >way to know a nation is to read about them, learn and study their
> >tradition, their history, their heritage,these people are a minority who
> >never knew any better,they just reflect their own pitiful existance,they
> >are but dust in the wind of the humanity, continuously circling the same
> >karmic wheel without learning the lessons of love, respect and evolution
> >of intellect.Let us never leave Iran ,in heart and soul but showing the
> >world entire that light will remain, and no darkness will destroy
> >it.Thankyou for having me here on Soc.culture .iranian,sometimes.peace .
> >Persian and Proud
>
> Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
> them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian lady
> who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
> voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her, hear
> her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and the
> pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned.

abandoned?!!!

> A country that has
> been neglected.

By who?!!

> A dream that has been shattered into a thousand peaces.
> A knife that has been stabbed into her heart. A love taken away... and
> the voices, the evil voices of darkness... they hunt her... they hunt
> her at night when she dreams about the beautiful land... she hears their
> voices calling her an alien...

I had a friend who always said: "What the hell is an 'alien?' I'm no f***ing
alien! I'd rather be called 'nigger!!!'" ;-)

> she hears the noises that get louder as
> every peace of Iran is being destroyed. She hears everything that you
> say... but does she hear your heart?

No! She is too far away to hear my heart. I can't hear my own heart! ;-)

> Does she know that you truely love
> Iran too?

I don't know! Why don't you ask her? ;-)

> I let her know, I let everyone know... and she lets me know.

Let everyone know that you've gone mad?!!!! ;-) ;-)

> Now I feel as I have someone to share my pain with... to tell my dreams
> to... to get help and close my heart to the evil voices of darkness...
> There are many of us who are proud. Proud to be Persains and proud to be
> us. And the ones who think it does not matter... it does. It matters
> very much.

I guess this is addressed to me! Well, Kitty jAn, as I have said before what
is it that makes us any different than a Hungarian? Our language? Well, we
can learn their language. Our citizenship? We can change that also! The
only thing is that we were born in Iran, and they were born in Hungary! So
what? These names mean nothing! They've been set by us! Humans made up
these borders and names, .... You can't really say much a person by knowing
their nationality. So, one has to wonder, does it really matter? :)

> I have tried to debate about this issue several times but
> always there is a force keeping me back... holding me from speaking the
> truth...

EVIL FORCES!! HA HA HA! ;-) ;-) (I wish I could use different fonts here!)

> And this force is being destroyed as I hear others say, that
> they feel how I feel too. And they are the great ones. Nationalism is
> needed for every country's success. All successful countries use
> nationalism.

Sure, they use nationalism to promote Xenophobia. They use nationalism to
promote racism. They use nationalism to justify Germany's attack on its
neighbors. They use nationalism to justify the Viernam war. They use
nationalism to justify the sanctions against Cuba. And, for God's sake, they
even use it against us! Have you heard any of Mr. D'Amato's speeches?

> And we, indeed, need some great nationalists of our own. We
> should be proud to have one (actually 2 that I can think of) In our
> group.

You mean, you and Ms. Proud? ;-)

khodA be dAde mA bereseh! digeh hame shA'er pishe shodan! :)

Dovvomin Irani

>
> nationalist bAshid,
>
> Kitty

Terita Parsi

unread,
Jun 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/18/96
to

In article <4q2c6l$k...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, purp...@aol.com
(PurpleT68) wrote:

> Ham meehanan,let's not leave our homeland alone .We never left in our
> hearts .Iran, my beautiful, my kind, my pure land of love. With my last
> breath ,or maybe my last cent,my humble soul will be there for you.You are
> still standing, you have stood throughout centuries ,you suffered ,you
> endured in silence,like the greatest of the magicians you transformed hate
> to love, cruelty to compassion, abuse to fairness, stone to fire,drought
> to rain.you are above the mediocre mortals that condemn you,pity them
> Iran, they never knew you.We never left you,we will never let you down
> again we have learnt, that what you taught us was to be human,to stand
> tall in generosity, to be fair to all mankind, to be persian ,to be
> proud,to forgive, to respect,these good things were what you taught
> us,that's what you wanted us to learn.Let us not forget that the message
> of being born iranian is much more than what a lot of ignorants want to
> reflect from us,that we are barbaric,forgive them,they never knew that the
> way to know a nation is to read about them, learn and study their
> tradition, their history, their heritage,these people are a minority who
> never knew any better,they just reflect their own pitiful existance,they
> are but dust in the wind of the humanity, continuously circling the same
> karmic wheel without learning the lessons of love, respect and evolution
> of intellect.Let us never leave Iran ,in heart and soul but showing the
> world entire that light will remain, and no darkness will destroy
> it.Thankyou for having me here on Soc.culture .iranian,sometimes.peace .
> Persian and Proud

Ham vatanAn-e aziz,
Tear comes to my eyes when I read your letter, hope and confidence comes
to my heart, now I once again know that we will suceed, Iran will be free,
Iran will be proud, Iran will be strong, Iran will be succesful and our
beautiful culture will survive 5000 more years. More than 1 million people
died in an unjust war, but they still died for Iran. They died for You and
me. They died for the fact that another beautiful Iranian child could be
born and be called Shirin or Darius. We should never forget this,
especially we Iranians outside Iran. Our brothers and sisters did not die
for us so we could marry an american and call our child Betty-Sue or Joey,
they did not die so we could speak english to our children. WE OWE IRAN
OUR LIVES, once you realize that you exist BECAUSE of your nation you will
also realize that if YOU leave your nation YOUR own children wont really
be alive since they dont wont have a nation, they wont have a past and
hence THEY WONT HAVE A FUTURE. There is no substitut for Iran!
There is a reason why all my letters end with ZENDE BAD IRAN!

--
Zende bAd IrAn
Terita Parsi

Kitty

unread,
Jun 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/18/96
to

Yes, abandoned.


>
>> A country that has
>> been neglected.
>
>By who?!!

By the IRI and all the others who use the country...


>
>> A dream that has been shattered into a thousand peaces.
>> A knife that has been stabbed into her heart. A love taken away... and
>> the voices, the evil voices of darkness... they hunt her... they hunt
>> her at night when she dreams about the beautiful land... she hears their
>> voices calling her an alien...
>
>I had a friend who always said: "What the hell is an 'alien?' I'm no f***ing
>alien! I'd rather be called 'nigger!!!'" ;-)

exactly my point. why are we being called aliens? we have no home...

>
>> she hears the noises that get louder as
>> every peace of Iran is being destroyed. She hears everything that you
>> say... but does she hear your heart?
>
>No! She is too far away to hear my heart. I can't hear my own heart! ;-)

that's probobly why you can't make up your mind about so many things...
you can't hear your own heart? maybe if you look deep inside your soal,
you'll find the voice that tells you what to do, and that's your heart.


>
>> Does she know that you truely love
>> Iran too?
>
>I don't know! Why don't you ask her? ;-)
>
>> I let her know, I let everyone know... and she lets me know.
>
>Let everyone know that you've gone mad?!!!! ;-) ;-)

Yes, if you like to think loving your counrty is going mad, then let the
whole world know that I've gone mad.


>
>> Now I feel as I have someone to share my pain with... to tell my dreams
>> to... to get help and close my heart to the evil voices of darkness...
>> There are many of us who are proud. Proud to be Persains and proud to be
>> us. And the ones who think it does not matter... it does. It matters
>> very much.
>
>I guess this is addressed to me! Well, Kitty jAn, as I have said before what
>is it that makes us any different than a Hungarian? Our language? Well, we
>can learn their language. Our citizenship? We can change that also! The
>only thing is that we were born in Iran, and they were born in Hungary! So
>what? These names mean nothing! They've been set by us! Humans made up
>these borders and names, .... You can't really say much a person by knowing
>their nationality. So, one has to wonder, does it really matter? :)

Pride doesn't mean racism... what you think nationalism is is wrong...
If you say: "I'm Iranian and proud to be an Iranian. Iran is a very
beautiful country and I'll love it more than anything else..." that's
nationalism. If you say: "I'm an Iranian and I'm better than you because
you're an American. Iran is the best and no matter what you do you can't
be as good as us..." that's racism.

>
>> I have tried to debate about this issue several times but
>> always there is a force keeping me back... holding me from speaking the
>> truth...
>
>EVIL FORCES!! HA HA HA! ;-) ;-) (I wish I could use different fonts here!)

No, the evil forces are not you or any one else... they are the feelings
of confusion that block my way from hearing my hart... and they're gone now...


>
>> And this force is being destroyed as I hear others say, that
>> they feel how I feel too. And they are the great ones. Nationalism is
>> needed for every country's success. All successful countries use
>> nationalism.
>
>Sure, they use nationalism to promote Xenophobia. They use nationalism to
>promote racism. They use nationalism to justify Germany's attack on its
>neighbors. They use nationalism to justify the Viernam war. They use
>nationalism to justify the sanctions against Cuba. And, for God's sake, they
>even use it against us! Have you heard any of Mr. D'Amato's speeches?

Exactly. If everyone was against nationalism, then sure it would work
out just fine. But you see, othr countries use it and in order to
succeed we *need* to use it too. (though you're still confusing
nationalism and racism.)


>
>> And we, indeed, need some great nationalists of our own. We
>> should be proud to have one (actually 2 that I can think of) In our
>> group.
>
>You mean, you and Ms. Proud? ;-)

No I don't think of myself as a great nationalist... I'm too young to be
called *great* in anyway!! ;-) I meant Ms. persian and proud and Yek Irani.

>
>khodA be dAde mA bereseh! digeh hame shA'er pishe shodan! :)

*now I can laugh at you!*
>
>Dovvomin Irani
>

nationalist bAshid, not racist

Bahareh
>>
>> nationalist bAshid,
>>
>> Kitty

Dovvomin Irani

unread,
Jun 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/19/96
to

Kitty wrote:
>
> Idin joon <id...@student.umass.edu> wrote:
> >Kitty wrote:
> >>
> >> purp...@aol.com (PurpleT68) wrote:

[ms. proud's post deleted...]

> >>
> >> Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
> >> them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian lady
> >> who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
> >> voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her, hear
> >> her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and the
> >> pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned.
> >
> >abandoned?!!!
>
> Yes, abandoned.

The question still presists. Who has abandoned this love? Ms. Proud?

> >
> >> A country that has
> >> been neglected.
> >
> >By who?!!
>
> By the IRI and all the others who use the country...

As a matter of fact, IRI cares very much for that country! They make a heck of a
lot of money out of that country! ;-)

> >
> >> A dream that has been shattered into a thousand peaces.
> >> A knife that has been stabbed into her heart. A love taken away... and
> >> the voices, the evil voices of darkness... they hunt her... they hunt
> >> her at night when she dreams about the beautiful land... she hears their
> >> voices calling her an alien...
> >
> >I had a friend who always said: "What the hell is an 'alien?' I'm no f***ing
> >alien! I'd rather be called 'nigger!!!'" ;-)
>
> exactly my point. why are we being called aliens? we have no home...

I have home! I gave you the address even! ;-)

> >
> >> she hears the noises that get louder as
> >> every peace of Iran is being destroyed. She hears everything that you
> >> say... but does she hear your heart?
> >
> >No! She is too far away to hear my heart. I can't hear my own heart! ;-)
>
> that's probobly why you can't make up your mind about so many things...
> you can't hear your own heart? maybe if you look deep inside your soal,

You mean my soul? *evil grin*

> you'll find the voice that tells you what to do, and that's your heart.

The only voice I can hear is a "thump, thump; thump, thump..." ;-)

> >
> >> Does she know that you truely love
> >> Iran too?
> >
> >I don't know! Why don't you ask her? ;-)
> >
> >> I let her know, I let everyone know... and she lets me know.
> >
> >Let everyone know that you've gone mad?!!!! ;-) ;-)
>
> Yes, if you like to think loving your counrty is going mad, then let the
> whole world know that I've gone mad.

No, your sentence above is mad! It's not a complete sentece. You let her know
what? She lets you know what? ;-)

> >
> >> Now I feel as I have someone to share my pain with... to tell my dreams
> >> to... to get help and close my heart to the evil voices of darkness...
> >> There are many of us who are proud. Proud to be Persains and proud to be
> >> us. And the ones who think it does not matter... it does. It matters
> >> very much.
> >
> >I guess this is addressed to me! Well, Kitty jAn, as I have said before what
> >is it that makes us any different than a Hungarian? Our language? Well, we
> >can learn their language. Our citizenship? We can change that also! The
> >only thing is that we were born in Iran, and they were born in Hungary! So
> >what? These names mean nothing! They've been set by us! Humans made up
> >these borders and names, .... You can't really say much a person by knowing
> >their nationality. So, one has to wonder, does it really matter? :)
>
> Pride doesn't mean racism... what you think nationalism is is wrong...

All I'm trying to say is that it is very easy to move from nationalism to racism.

> If you say: "I'm Iranian and proud to be an Iranian. Iran is a very
> beautiful country and I'll love it more than anything else..." that's
> nationalism. If you say: "I'm an Iranian and I'm better than you because
> you're an American. Iran is the best and no matter what you do you can't
> be as good as us..." that's racism.

Thank you. You illustrate my point. When you say you'll love your country more
than anything else, this will necessarily imply that you love your country more than
say Cuba. So, if it comes to making decisions, you'll prefer your country to Cuba
ONLY because you are Iranian. I don't think this is a very good basis to be making
decisions on, IMHO. :)

> >
> >> I have tried to debate about this issue several times but
> >> always there is a force keeping me back... holding me from speaking the
> >> truth...
> >
> >EVIL FORCES!! HA HA HA! ;-) ;-) (I wish I could use different fonts here!)
>
> No, the evil forces are not you or any one else... they are the feelings
> of confusion that block my way from hearing my hart... and they're gone now...

I am the devil himself!!! ;-) ;-)

> >
> >> And this force is being destroyed as I hear others say, that
> >> they feel how I feel too. And they are the great ones. Nationalism is
> >> needed for every country's success. All successful countries use
> >> nationalism.
> >
> >Sure, they use nationalism to promote Xenophobia. They use nationalism to
> >promote racism. They use nationalism to justify Germany's attack on its
> >neighbors. They use nationalism to justify the Viernam war. They use
> >nationalism to justify the sanctions against Cuba. And, for God's sake, they
> >even use it against us! Have you heard any of Mr. D'Amato's speeches?
>
> Exactly. If everyone was against nationalism, then sure it would work
> out just fine. But you see, othr countries use it and in order to
> succeed we *need* to use it too.

Two wrongs don't make a right Kitty jAn. Others make that mistake, so be it. Why
should we go down the same path?

> (though you're still confusing
> nationalism and racism.)

You bet I am confusing them. That's what I've been saying all along. Nationalism
is not very far from racism, IMHO.

> >
> >> And we, indeed, need some great nationalists of our own. We
> >> should be proud to have one (actually 2 that I can think of) In our
> >> group.
> >
> >You mean, you and Ms. Proud? ;-)
>
> No I don't think of myself as a great nationalist... I'm too young to be
> called *great* in anyway!! ;-) I meant Ms. persian and proud and Yek Irani.

But you notice that neither of the two have made a comment on this issue yet!

> >
> >khodA be dAde mA bereseh! digeh hame shA'er pishe shodan! :)
>
> *now I can laugh at you!*

Laugh all you can... Your days will be over soon.... ;-) ;-) ;-)

Dovvomin Irani

Kitty

unread,
Jun 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/20/96
to

Dovvomin Irani <id...@student.umass.edu> wrote:
>Kitty wrote:
>>
>> Idin joon <id...@student.umass.edu> wrote:
>> >Kitty wrote:
>> >>
>> >> purp...@aol.com (PurpleT68) wrote:
>
>[ms. proud's post deleted...]
>
>> >>
>> >> Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
>> >> them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian lady
>> >> who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
>> >> voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her, hear
>> >> her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and the
>> >> pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned.
>> >
>> >abandoned?!!!
>>
>> Yes, abandoned.
>
>The question still presists. Who has abandoned this love? Ms. Proud?

no, no, no... the love could be abandoned by many people. the anti Irn people...


>
>> >
>> >> A country that has
>> >> been neglected.
>> >
>> >By who?!!
>>
>> By the IRI and all the others who use the country...
>
>As a matter of fact, IRI cares very much for that country! They make a heck of a
>lot of money out of that country! ;-)

exactly.


>
>> >
>> >> A dream that has been shattered into a thousand peaces.
>> >> A knife that has been stabbed into her heart. A love taken away... and
>> >> the voices, the evil voices of darkness... they hunt her... they hunt
>> >> her at night when she dreams about the beautiful land... she hears their
>> >> voices calling her an alien...
>> >
>> >I had a friend who always said: "What the hell is an 'alien?' I'm no f***ing
>> >alien! I'd rather be called 'nigger!!!'" ;-)
>>
>> exactly my point. why are we being called aliens? we have no home...
>
>I have home! I gave you the address even! ;-)

I don't!


>
>> >
>> >> she hears the noises that get louder as
>> >> every peace of Iran is being destroyed. She hears everything that you
>> >> say... but does she hear your heart?
>> >
>> >No! She is too far away to hear my heart. I can't hear my own heart! ;-)
>>
>> that's probobly why you can't make up your mind about so many things...
>> you can't hear your own heart? maybe if you look deep inside your soal,
>
>You mean my soul? *evil grin*

whatever!


>
>> you'll find the voice that tells you what to do, and that's your heart.
>
>The only voice I can hear is a "thump, thump; thump, thump..." ;-)

You're not listening hard enough...


>
>> >
>> >> Does she know that you truely love
>> >> Iran too?
>> >
>> >I don't know! Why don't you ask her? ;-)
>> >
>> >> I let her know, I let everyone know... and she lets me know.
>> >
>> >Let everyone know that you've gone mad?!!!! ;-) ;-)
>>
>> Yes, if you like to think loving your counrty is going mad, then let the
>> whole world know that I've gone mad.
>
>No, your sentence above is mad! It's not a complete sentece. You let her know
>what? She lets you know what? ;-)

¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
>
>> >
>> >> Now I feel as I have someone to share my pain with... to tell my dreams
>> >> to... to get help and close my heart to the evil voices of darkness...
>> >> There are many of us who are proud. Proud to be Persains and proud to be
>> >> us. And the ones who think it does not matter... it does. It matters
>> >> very much.
>> >
>> >I guess this is addressed to me! Well, Kitty jAn, as I have said before what
>> >is it that makes us any different than a Hungarian? Our language? Well, we
>> >can learn their language. Our citizenship? We can change that also! The
>> >only thing is that we were born in Iran, and they were born in Hungary! So
>> >what? These names mean nothing! They've been set by us! Humans made up
>> >these borders and names, .... You can't really say much a person by knowing
>> >their nationality. So, one has to wonder, does it really matter? :)
>>
>> Pride doesn't mean racism... what you think nationalism is is wrong...
>
>All I'm trying to say is that it is very easy to move from nationalism to racism.

Listen, we can't just through nationalism away because it might become
racism. It's just like eating, if you eat too much, you'll get sick, but
if you don't eat at all, you die. Same with nationalism, if you have too
much of it, it turns into racism, if none of it, you're no more! (dead)


>
>> If you say: "I'm Iranian and proud to be an Iranian. Iran is a very
>> beautiful country and I'll love it more than anything else..." that's
>> nationalism. If you say: "I'm an Iranian and I'm better than you because
>> you're an American. Iran is the best and no matter what you do you can't
>> be as good as us..." that's racism.
>
>Thank you. You illustrate my point. When you say you'll love your country more
>than anything else, this will necessarily imply that you love your country more than
>say Cuba. So, if it comes to making decisions, you'll prefer your country to Cuba
>ONLY because you are Iranian. I don't think this is a very good basis to be making
>decisions on, IMHO. :)

Yes, it is. Let's say for example if I say I like my sister more than
yours, it's okay. You can love whoever, just try not to treat them differently.


>
>> >
>> >> I have tried to debate about this issue several times but
>> >> always there is a force keeping me back... holding me from speaking the
>> >> truth...
>> >
>> >EVIL FORCES!! HA HA HA! ;-) ;-) (I wish I could use different fonts here!)
>>
>> No, the evil forces are not you or any one else... they are the feelings
>> of confusion that block my way from hearing my hart... and they're gone now...
>
>I am the devil himself!!! ;-) ;-)

That's what you think. the devil is really a 50-60 year old woman! (my drama teacher!)

Don't be so sure!! ;-)

motma'en nabAshid,

Kitty

FARHAD95

unread,
Jun 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/20/96
to

MISS KIDDY WRITES....

>Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
>> >> them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian
lady
>> >> who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
>> >> voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her,
hear
>> >> her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and
the
>> >> pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned.
>> >
>> >abandoned?!!!
>>

DJ: HMMM, I LIKE THAT MISS KIDDY... SWEET...
YOU ARE NOW OUT OF MY BLACK LIST...
OUT THE LIST YOU GO...

DR. JAZZ LIKES EVERY ONE THAT LOVES IRAN...

Kitty

unread,
Jun 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/20/96
to

farh...@aol.com (FARHAD95) wrote:
>MISS KIDDY WRITES....

>
>>Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
>>> >> them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian
>lady
>>> >> who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
>>> >> voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her,
>hear
>>> >> her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and
>the
>>> >> pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned.
>>> >
>>> >abandoned?!!!
>>>
>
>DJ: HMMM, I LIKE THAT MISS KIDDY... SWEET...
>YOU ARE NOW OUT OF MY BLACK LIST...
>OUT THE LIST YOU GO...


heehaaa! I'm out of the list! (how did I get on there in the first
place?) Thanx Dr. Jazz, I'm glad to see another nationalist here.


>
>DR. JAZZ LIKES EVERY ONE THAT LOVES IRAN...

and Kitty likes everyone who likes Iran too...

Iran doost bAshid,

Bahareh (Kitty)

Dovvomin Irani

unread,
Jun 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/20/96
to

Kitty wrote:
>
> Dovvomin Irani <id...@student.umass.edu> wrote:
> >Kitty wrote:
> >>
> >> Idin joon <id...@student.umass.edu> wrote:
> >> >Kitty wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> purp...@aol.com (PurpleT68) wrote:
> >
> >[ms. proud's post deleted...]
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Ah, how you speak my heart. Let others hear your beautiful voice, let
> >> >> them love it, live it and dream it. This is the voice of a persian lady
> >> >> who is proud. She loves Iran... maybe as much as I do... She is the
> >> >> voice of millions and millions of proud Iranians like me. Hear her, hear
> >> >> her carefully and never forget a word she says. feel her heart and the
> >> >> pain of her love. A love that has been abandoned.
> >> >
> >> >abandoned?!!!
> >>
> >> Yes, abandoned.
> >
> >The question still presists. Who has abandoned this love? Ms. Proud?
>
> no, no, no... the love could be abandoned by many people. the anti Irn people...

Am I an "anti-Iran" person? ;-)

> >
> >> >
> >> >> A country that has
> >> >> been neglected.
> >> >
> >> >By who?!!
> >>
> >> By the IRI and all the others who use the country...
> >
> >As a matter of fact, IRI cares very much for that country! They make a heck of a
> >lot of money out of that country! ;-)
>
> exactly.

Good! We agree on something! ;-)

> >
> >> >
> >> >> A dream that has been shattered into a thousand peaces.
> >> >> A knife that has been stabbed into her heart. A love taken away... and
> >> >> the voices, the evil voices of darkness... they hunt her... they hunt
> >> >> her at night when she dreams about the beautiful land... she hears their
> >> >> voices calling her an alien...
> >> >
> >> >I had a friend who always said: "What the hell is an 'alien?' I'm no f***ing
> >> >alien! I'd rather be called 'nigger!!!'" ;-)
> >>
> >> exactly my point. why are we being called aliens? we have no home...
> >
> >I have home! I gave you the address even! ;-)
>
> I don't!

Then where do you live? Do you walk the earth? (in other words, are you a bum?) ;-)
remember Pulp Fiction?

> >
> >> >
> >> >> she hears the noises that get louder as
> >> >> every peace of Iran is being destroyed. She hears everything that you
> >> >> say... but does she hear your heart?
> >> >
> >> >No! She is too far away to hear my heart. I can't hear my own heart! ;-)
> >>
> >> that's probobly why you can't make up your mind about so many things...
> >> you can't hear your own heart? maybe if you look deep inside your soal,
> >
> >You mean my soul? *evil grin*
>
> whatever!
> >
> >> you'll find the voice that tells you what to do, and that's your heart.
> >
> >The only voice I can hear is a "thump, thump; thump, thump..." ;-)
>
> You're not listening hard enough...

Well, I tried listening hard, and sure enough I heard another sound! It was my "gooz!"
Apparently, I was putting myself under too much pressure! ;-)

> >
> >> >
> >> >> Does she know that you truely love
> >> >> Iran too?
> >> >
> >> >I don't know! Why don't you ask her? ;-)
> >> >
> >> >> I let her know, I let everyone know... and she lets me know.
> >> >
> >> >Let everyone know that you've gone mad?!!!! ;-) ;-)
> >>
> >> Yes, if you like to think loving your counrty is going mad, then let the
> >> whole world know that I've gone mad.
> >
> >No, your sentence above is mad! It's not a complete sentece. You let her know
> >what? She lets you know what? ;-)
>
> ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿

WOW! Upside down question marks! Cool! ;-)

> >
> >> >
> >> >> Now I feel as I have someone to share my pain with... to tell my dreams
> >> >> to... to get help and close my heart to the evil voices of darkness...
> >> >> There are many of us who are proud. Proud to be Persains and proud to be
> >> >> us. And the ones who think it does not matter... it does. It matters
> >> >> very much.
> >> >
> >> >I guess this is addressed to me! Well, Kitty jAn, as I have said before what
> >> >is it that makes us any different than a Hungarian? Our language? Well, we
> >> >can learn their language. Our citizenship? We can change that also! The
> >> >only thing is that we were born in Iran, and they were born in Hungary! So
> >> >what? These names mean nothing! They've been set by us! Humans made up
> >> >these borders and names, .... You can't really say much a person by knowing
> >> >their nationality. So, one has to wonder, does it really matter? :)
> >>
> >> Pride doesn't mean racism... what you think nationalism is is wrong...
> >
> >All I'm trying to say is that it is very easy to move from nationalism to racism.
>
> Listen, we can't just through nationalism away because it might become
> racism. It's just like eating, if you eat too much, you'll get sick, but
> if you don't eat at all, you die. Same with nationalism, if you have too
> much of it, it turns into racism, if none of it, you're no more! (dead)

You mean if I am not a nationalist, I am no more?! I tend to disagree with that --
strongly! My nationality is not all I have! I am a person with or without my
nationality. If I want to get a job, my personal qualities will be much more important
than my nationality.

> >
> >> If you say: "I'm Iranian and proud to be an Iranian. Iran is a very
> >> beautiful country and I'll love it more than anything else..." that's
> >> nationalism. If you say: "I'm an Iranian and I'm better than you because
> >> you're an American. Iran is the best and no matter what you do you can't
> >> be as good as us..." that's racism.
> >
> >Thank you. You illustrate my point. When you say you'll love your country more
> >than anything else, this will necessarily imply that you love your country more than
> >say Cuba. So, if it comes to making decisions, you'll prefer your country to Cuba
> >ONLY because you are Iranian. I don't think this is a very good basis to be making
> >decisions on, IMHO. :)
>
> Yes, it is. Let's say for example if I say I like my sister more than
> yours, it's okay. You can love whoever, just try not to treat them differently.

!!!!!!!!
If you love someone more than another, can you treat them both the same?!!!

> >
> >> >
> >> >> I have tried to debate about this issue several times but
> >> >> always there is a force keeping me back... holding me from speaking the
> >> >> truth...
> >> >
> >> >EVIL FORCES!! HA HA HA! ;-) ;-) (I wish I could use different fonts here!)
> >>
> >> No, the evil forces are not you or any one else... they are the feelings
> >> of confusion that block my way from hearing my hart... and they're gone now...
> >
> >I am the devil himself!!! ;-) ;-)
>
> That's what you think. the devil is really a 50-60 year old woman! (my drama teacher!)

Hey! Kyser Soze is the devil! (from The Usual Suspects)

I am sure! ;-)

>
> motma'en nabAshid,

motma'en neesteem! khAter jam' hastim! ;-) ;-)

Dovvomin Irani

Terita Parsi

unread,
Jun 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/21/96
to

Dovvomin Irani wrote:

> > If you say: "I'm Iranian and proud to be an Iranian. Iran is a very
> > beautiful country and I'll love it more than anything else..." that's
> > nationalism. If you say: "I'm an Iranian and I'm better than you because
> > you're an American. Iran is the best and no matter what you do you can't
> > be as good as us..." that's racism.
>
> Thank you. You illustrate my point. When you say you'll love your country more
> than anything else, this will necessarily imply that you love your country more than
> say Cuba. So, if it comes to making decisions, you'll prefer your country to Cuba
> ONLY because you are Iranian. I don't think this is a very good basis to be making
> decisions on, IMHO. :)
>

> > >
> > >Dovvomin Irani
In what way is that a bad basis to make a decision? This is fundamentely the
same
basis that is used for ALL vital decisions: Self-preservation! Is that wrong???
If
you
think its wrong remember that your own very existence is due to your ancestors
selfpreservation and if you love your future children I suggest that start
taking
care
of your self, your culture, your people and your country! For the sake of your
children!!!

Terita Parsi
Zende bAd IrAn

Dovvomin Irani

unread,
Jun 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/21/96
to

Terita Parsi wrote:

>
> Dovvomin Irani wrote:
>
> > > If you say: "I'm Iranian and proud to be an Iranian. Iran is a very
> > > beautiful country and I'll love it more than anything else..." that's
> > > nationalism. If you say: "I'm an Iranian and I'm better than you because
> > > you're an American. Iran is the best and no matter what you do you can't
> > > be as good as us..." that's racism.
> >
> > Thank you. You illustrate my point. When you say you'll love your country more
> > than anything else, this will necessarily imply that you love your country more than
> > say Cuba. So, if it comes to making decisions, you'll prefer your country to Cuba
> > ONLY because you are Iranian. I don't think this is a very good basis to be making
> > decisions on, IMHO. :)
> >
>
> > > >
> > > >Dovvomin Irani
> In what way is that a bad basis to make a decision?

Well, you have to bear with me here. I am being a little idealistic.
But to answer your question, I should say that when there is a decision to be made,
we have to consider that decision free of any presumptions. For instance, if Iran
and Cuba get into a war (this is a bit far-fetched, but please bear with me!), we
shouldn't just jump in and start defending Iran. Maybe Cuba is the one who was
right. Maybe we made a mistake...



> This is fundamentely the
> same
> basis that is used for ALL vital decisions: Self-preservation! Is that wrong???

No. But our self-preservation has changed. We can no longer preserve ourselves
without outside help. And this outside help will move the world in the direction of
getting closer together. In the middle of such a trend, trying to pull back into
our nation, and start braging about ourselves, would be a little bit foolish.
("Foolish Mister Bond!" (c) Goldfinger ;-) ).

> If
> you
> think its wrong remember that your own very existence is due to your ancestors
> selfpreservation and if you love your future children I suggest that start
> taking
> care
> of your self, your culture, your people and your country! For the sake of your
> children!!!

Well, if I want to put in very rational terms, I should say that my children would
be quite happy in the U.S. with or without Iran. Many American kids grow up not
even knowing the name "Iran," and they do quite allright.
Of course, that's not how I emotionally feel. I want my kids to speak Farsi,
etc.... However, I still don't think nationalism is the way to preserve that
country.

>
> Terita Parsi
> Zende bAd IrAn

zende bAd Iran, fair enough; but for what price?

Dovvomin Irani

Amina

unread,
Jun 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/28/96
to
In article <31CB4C...@student.umass.edu>, Dovvomin Irani
<id...@student.umass.edu> wrote:

> > >
> > > Thank you. You illustrate my point. When you say you'll love your
country more
> > > than anything else, this will necessarily imply that you love your
country more than
> > > say Cuba. So, if it comes to making decisions, you'll prefer your
country to Cuba
> > > ONLY because you are Iranian. I don't think this is a very good
basis to be making
> > > decisions on, IMHO. :)
> > >
> >
> > > > >

> > > > >Dovvomin Irani
> > In what way is that a bad basis to make a decision?
>
> Well, you have to bear with me here. I am being a little idealistic.
> But to answer your question, I should say that when there is a decision
to be made,
> we have to consider that decision free of any presumptions. For
instance, if Iran
> and Cuba get into a war (this is a bit far-fetched, but please bear with
me!), we
> shouldn't just jump in and start defending Iran. Maybe Cuba is the one
who was
> right. Maybe we made a mistake...

I understand what you are saying, but being a nationalist doesnt mean that
one takes Irans side WITHOUT thinking, it only means that if a conflict
begins and there is no way out- you will do what ever it takes to defend
your own. It does not mean that one starts conflicts ore that one stops to
think rationally.


>
> > This is fundamentely the
> > same
> > basis that is used for ALL vital decisions: Self-preservation! Is that
wrong???
>
> No. But our self-preservation has changed. We can no longer preserve
ourselves
> without outside help. And this outside help will move the world in the
direction of
> getting closer together. In the middle of such a trend, trying to pull
back into
> our nation, and start braging about ourselves, would be a little bit foolish.
> ("Foolish Mister Bond!" (c) Goldfinger ;-) ).
>

I agree that we should move closer to other nations, but being a
nationalist doesnt mean that we are the best and that we do not need the
help of others-we do! Being a nationalist is not the same thing as pulling
back to our own nation.

> > If
> > you
> > think its wrong remember that your own very existence is due to your
ancestors
> > selfpreservation and if you love your future children I suggest that start
> > taking
> > care
> > of your self, your culture, your people and your country! For the sake
of your
> > children!!!
>
> Well, if I want to put in very rational terms, I should say that my
children would
> be quite happy in the U.S. with or without Iran. Many American kids
grow up not
> even knowing the name "Iran," and they do quite allright.
> Of course, that's not how I emotionally feel. I want my kids to speak Farsi,
> etc.... However, I still don't think nationalism is the way to preserve that
> country.
>
> >

Have you noticed how Italian americans stick together in the US? Same with
chinese, irish etc etc. They stick together because of their nationalism,
and every nation within US did the same to survive when thay started to
inhabit the US. This is natural, this is logical, THIS IS RATIONAL. Now
just because these people stick together does not mean that they get in
conflict with others just because they stick together!

> > Terita Parsi
> > Zende bAd IrAn
>
> zende bAd Iran, fair enough; but for what price?
>
> Dovvomin Irani

I am proud of who I am and of my nation. When I love myself it is much
easier to love others. I do not hate any other nation. Just because you
love one nation doesnt mean that yu hate others. But I do love Iran and
Iranians more than, say Botswanans, but I do not hate them. IS THAT
WRONG?? Is that causing our nation any harm?
Sir I think that you are misunderstanding the concept of nationalism.
However, I respect your opinion but I hope that you wont blame the
problems of Iran on my love for my country and people.

Dovvomin Irani

unread,
Jun 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/30/96
to

Amina wrote:

snip...


>
> I am proud of who I am and of my nation. When I love myself it is much
> easier to love others. I do not hate any other nation. Just because you
> love one nation doesnt mean that yu hate others. But I do love Iran and
> Iranians more than, say Botswanans, but I do not hate them. IS THAT
> WRONG?? Is that causing our nation any harm?

Maybe not our nation, but it could cause others harm.

> Sir I think that you are misunderstanding the concept of nationalism.

Thank you. So, now we know what the problem is. We are fighting over
the definition of the term "nationalism." I don't intend to fight with
anyone over this. Whenever we get some ideology (e.g. nationalism,
Communism, Islam, Judaism,...) we start fighting over it, just because we
define these terms differently! :( So, you be what you are, and I'll be
what I am. :)

> However, I respect your opinion but I hope that you wont blame the
> problems of Iran on my love for my country and people.

I would not dare blame anyone! We did it to ourselves. Everyone is
probably guilty. Some may be guiltier than others, but it's not up to me
to decide.

>
> --
> Zende bAd IrAn

salAmat bAshid! (c) Dr. nAser-ol hokamA, "dAyi jAn nApel'on"

Dovvomin Irani

> Terita Parsi

GUILLAUME J.P

unread,
Jul 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/8/96
to id...@student.umass.edu

Re: Let's not leave IRAN alone .
Sorry to disturb you , do you know if some iranians may be
connected on the net? (from IRAN) I am trying to contact a friend
whitout success!! Thanks for your help.


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