Pornography in Hindu holy book Ramayana
Mei Ling
Ken!!!
what's your point?
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:47:56 -0700, Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Pornography is replete in the Ramayana, especially in the older unedited
>versions.
*************************************
delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence
ICQ:42366740
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Ken!!!
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:23:17 +1000, The Bishop <he...@home.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:37:40 +0800, Ken!!!
><na...@pacific.SPAMMERSDIE.net.sg> wrote:
>
>>so?
>>
>>what's your point?
>
>She was fucked, and got upset because he was not happy...
Ken!!!
so why is she on about the ramayan?
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:46:46 +1000, The Bishop <he...@home.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:35:58 +0800, Ken!!!
><na...@pacific.SPAMMERSDIE.net.sg> wrote:
>
>>if so, why the hell should she care?
>
>He found greener pasture...
Ken!!!
that about right?
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:10:44 +1000, The Bishop <he...@home.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:47:53 +0800, Ken!!!
><na...@pacific.SPAMMERSDIE.net.sg> wrote:
>
>>orrr... like dat ah...
>>
>>so why is she on about the ramayan?
>
>turned racists.... it happens..
richard
Muslim heaven men are given 72 houris each to have sex and sex and sex.....
There is also a plentiful supply of young boys ...hmmm
Ken!!! wrote in message <10vuksc583pp2711d...@4ax.com>...
Ken!!!
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:14:30 +0800, "richard" <lones...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>There is also lot of porn in the Koran. According to the Koran, in the
>Muslim heaven men are given 72 houris each to have sex and sex and sex.....
>There is also a plentiful supply of young boys ...hmmm
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Frank
imprisonment for sodomy. He is a Muslim. After all if a Muslim in heaven can
have sex with women and men, can't Annuar have sex with men on earth too?
Ken!!! <na...@pacific.SPAMMERSDIE.net.sg> wrote in message
news:p43vks8kt2ao9bg40...@4ax.com...
KrAniUm
Have you actually read the Al-Quran? If you haven't please read it
thoroughly then comment as the Al-Quran is not the word of any man it
is the word of God Himself.
Please point me to the verse where it says that as I would gladly like
to read it.
Thanks!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Neil Ozman
The so called revelations are based upon the need to spread the
Judaic/Christian faiths
and when Islam came into existence, it followed the tried and tested
formular with
more vigour, then it's counter part the Christian faith.
The very fact is that the Aryan theory is unproven and was in fact concocted
by the
British and the West in particular the Germans, to justify the invasion of
India. The
Christian and the Islamic worlds are in fact part and parcel of the same
tradition that
was started back 5,000 odd years ago in Israel, by Mosses. Except that Islam
makes
use of the religious bases of the Torha (Jewish Bible) and the Christian
Bible to help
spread Arab nationalism in the guise of a religious faith/order. The reason
why such
attacks have been taking place on Hinduism where lies and distortions are
used is
because we are one of the few people in this world to have survived the
onslaught
of these faiths. They are aggressive, encourage hatered of those who do not
belong
to their belief systems and see it as a duty to spread their faiths at any
expense.
Mr. Siddiqui and his elk have been very active in trying to malign Sanatan
Dharma
commonly known as "Hinduism", because by spreading misinformation they hope
to achive what their coreligionists couldn't have achived in 1,000 years.
That is
the total rejection and distruction of a faith that is not based upon the
Judaic/Christian
view point. To them it is an anathema to have a faith that has stood upto
there
invasions, oppression and forced conversions of the people of India/Bharat.
Let us firstly examine his claims. He claims that the Budhists versions of
the
Ramayana are authentic. However, you perhaps and I know that the Budhist
faith is in fact based upon a philosophy that is atheistic in nature. What
interest
would the Budhists have in maintaining and reading the Ramayana from a
religious point of view, his suggestion is that the Budhist clergy
maintained
the "original" Ramayana !
Further the very fact that the Aryan invasion theory is unproven and
according
to the theory the Aryans came from Central Asia or West of that region. Why
is
there no relics of the existance of this civilisation ? No they never
address this
in a meaningful and scientific manner but they use the domination theory
where
mankinds nature has two facets, these are compassion and domination, the
choice is ours. The suggestion is that the Aryans misused their power
because of
their nature to oppress others. The Aryans are closely aliened now days with
Nazi Germany ! The Real meaning of the word Arya means the Nobel one or
the seeker of the Truth and not based upon a race of people. The theory that
Mr. Siddiqui and his elk base their facts upon is discussed at the following
url:
http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/myth-of-invasion.html
The fact is that NO WHERE in the Gita there is any mention of sex or abuse
of women. The Gita is on-line and can be accessed at the following url :
http://www.spiritweb.org/Gita/
I challenge Mr. Siddiqui to find any verses that contain verses to abuse
women.
In fact the great war the Mahabharat was started because a woman was
dishonoured. The Gita is a discourse between God and Arjuna who is lamenting
at the battle field. The Gita discusses the relationship between us and God,
makes
us aware of the reality that life in the material world is temporary and our
relationship
with God is eternal. It teaches us how to reestablish our relationship with
God that is
based upon love and devotion and not fear. In fact God tells us not to fear
Him !
The following url points to the meaning of Yoga and the types of Yoga are
discussed, the url is : http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/yoga.html
The Muslims have been very active on the net distributing lies and
misinformation
in the guise of academic discussion. While hiding the facts about their own
faith
where oppression of women is encouraged and Mohammad himself abused
women and married a six year old girl, see the following site for more
information
the url is : http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html
The very accusations the Muslims make against others are in fact, just part
and
pracel of their faith. Sex and prostitution are an innate part of "selling"
the doctrine
of the Koran that is based upon Arab Nationalism and no more. I ask you to
take
a look at the history of the Christian and Muslim faiths and the manner in
which they
thrust their faith upon others with any means that included invasion and
violence. One
just has to look at India, America, etc... to see what has happened to
native people.
I therefore ask you all to question the movtive of Mr. Siddiqui and his elk
and see
what their ulterior motive is. Islam promisses it's male followers 70 odd
virgin women and
12 odd boys as a reward for following Mohammads message ! Sex to sell the
message is
part and parcel of their faith.
I sincerely hope you will question the posting the has been presented by Mr.
Siddiqui.
Regards .....
Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:395108A3...@hotmail.com...
> I was intrigued by your posting and forwarded it to
> soc.culture.indonesia and soc.culture.singapore.
> In south-east-asian countries Ramayana is held in
> great respect and thus I was shocked at your revelations.
>
> However,your posting had created a lot of interest and some
> questions raised which I am I unable to answer.Could you
> help by crossing over to those ngs?
> The title is the same as this thread.
>
> Farhan Siddiqui wrote:
>
> > his article exposes the insatiable sexual apetite that the Aryan Hindu
> > Gods possessed. This proves that one of the main reasons for
> > forming the insidious religion of Hinduism or Brahmanism was so that sex
> > was available freely to the male Brahmins in the name of Vishnu.
> > As shown in the chapter `Women in Hinduism', the Vedas, Ramayana and
> > Gita justify treating women as mere fuel for fire and an object for
> > sexual gratification. As a result, the Ramyana and other `holy' books
> > seem to have verses that pop up conveniently so that the Gods can
> > justify perverted secual actions with animals, female relatives, and
> > other men.
> >
> > PORNOGRAPHY IN RAMAYANA
> >
> > Pornography is replete in the Ramayana, especially in the older unedited
> > versions. The oldest Ramayanas are in fact Buddhist versions,
> > and they preserve much of the true character of the vicious Rama and his
> > adulterous wife Sita. Much of this material was later on deleted
> > by the Brahmin crooks, so one must go to the older Ramayanas in order to
> > uncover the truth. Thus, Dr. Charles claims that Ramayana
> > contains much pornographic material and cannot be read in public. He
> > gives the following examples:
> >
> > Rama's description of Sita's beauty is lewdly detailed and full of
> > obscene details (refer to C.R. Srinivasalyengar's translation of Aranya
> > Kandam - chapter 46).
> >
> > This shows the truly lecherous nature of Rama, who considered women
> > as mere sexual objects.
> >
> > In Kiskind Kandam, the `great' Rama of the `wonderful' religion of
> > Hinduism explains to Lakshmana in graphic details his sexual
> > experience with Sita.
> >
> > This shows that Rama was a pornographer and lecher to boot. Not only
> > did he seduce Sita, but had to tell the whole world about it !
> > He viewed marriage simply as a means of fulfilment of base passions.
> > The intelligence, her virtues and personality do not count.
> >
> > According to Ramayana, the Aryans (Brahmins) used to drink liquor
> > (of nine different kinds), eat meat, marry many wives and
> > prostitution was an accepted way of life amongst the priests and
> > gods.
> >
> > This proves that, even during the Ramayanic era of the Brahmanic
> > Dark Ages, the `noble' Aryan Hindus lived in the manner of the
> > animals with whom they shared the jungles.
> >
> > Ramayana also recounts the "story of King Dasharatha who, in order
> > to have a baby son, made a big sacrifice (yagnam) of sheep,
> > cattle, horses, birds and snakes. He then delivered his three wives
> > Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to three priests. These holy
> > men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies
> > to the King. By this means, the King was able to have three sons -
> > Ram, Lakshman and Bharat" (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details
> > on yagnam, refer to the book "Gnana Surian", published by
> > Kudi Arasu Press).
> >
> > This shows the truly cheap nature of Rama's immoral father. He was
> > willing to prostitute his wives merely in order to gain personal
> > benefits ! The `great king' Rama's father was merely a lowly pimp
> > who handed his wives over to whosoever could fulfill his selfish
> > needs !
> >
> > The handing over of Rama's mother to the three disciples occurred
> > after the Vedic horse sacrifice (ashwamedha), in which Rama's
> > mother copulated with the dead horse in accordance with Vedic Hindu
> > requirements.
> >
> > This example shows the truly debauched nature of Rama's whoring
> > mother. Why did she have to have intercourse with a dead horse
> > ? Would not a living horse do ?
> >
> > The Ramayan tells us much about the unlawful relationship of incest
> > (Please refer to Aranya Kandam, chapter 45, verses 122, 123,
> > 124 & 125). Incest is the prime speciality of Hinduism; thus Brahma
> > had intercourse with his own daughter Sarasvat; and even Sita is,
> > in the older Buddhist and more authentic versions of the Ramayana,
> > the sister of Rama.
> >
> > One may ask, why are such perversions as incest, beastiality prevalent
> > in Hinduism, and in fact sanctioned in Hindu scriptures ? The
> > answer is that the Brahmin imposed a strict sense of `brahmacarya'
> > (ascetism) onto a previously Aryan barbarian society. As a result,
> > common Aryans could not satisfy their urges in normal and healty manners
> > and were thus forced to resort to perversions such as incest,
> > zoophilia, etc.
> >
> > The following Hindu practices will reveal how immorality and indecency
> > are sanctified in the name of Hinduism.
> >
> > LINGAM & YONI
> >
> > Lingam and Yoni are the male and female sexual organs respectively.
> > Hindus are allowed to worship anything - including sexual organs. It
> > is not unknown for them to name their children Shiva Lingam (God Shiva's
> > sexual organ) or Rama Lingam (God Rama's sexual organ). (In
> > some places in Karnataka, the gods demand both male and females to pray
> > naked together.)
> >
> > This practice is not so much a survival of pre-Brahmanic Saiva religion,
> > but arose as a means of Brahmins ensuring a constant supply of
> > lower-caste women to satisfy their lecherous needs. The Brahmins, who
> > possessed absolute power over all other races, lived a life of
> > constant debauchery, raping the non-Brahmin women and forcing them into
> > prostitution.
> >
> > DEVADASI (RELGIOUS PROSTITUTION)
> >
> > The Devadasi system was set up, according to a Times of India report
> > (10-1 1 -87) as a result of a conspiracy between the feudal class
> > (pseudo-secular word for `Rajputs') and the priests (pseudo-secular word
> > for `Brahmins'). The latter, with their ideological and religious hold
> > over the peasants and craftsmen, devised a means that gave prostitution
> > their religious sanction. Poor, low-caste girls, initally sold at
> > private auctions, were later dedicated to the temples. They were then
> > initiated into prostitution.
> >
> > Thus Devadasism is a system of legalised rape, enforced prostitution and
> > sexual expoitation of Black Sudra women by
> > Brahmin men. Moreover, by raping Sudra women the Brahmins could breed a
> > new mixed race of middle castes which would serve to
> > divide the Sudras !
> >
> > BHARAT NATYAM & THE BRAHMINS
> >
> > The Bharat Natyam is a dance performance which, because of the Brahmin
> > media, has gained much recognition as a form of art. However,
> > the origin of this dance lies in the Brahmins abducting low-caste women,
> > raping them and forcing them to become prostitutes
> > in order to earn money. As part of the captured womens' training as
> > `Devadasis', they were required to learn the
> > Bharatnatyam. The celebrated Bharat Natya expert, Rukmini Devi, admits
> > in a National Geographic video programme, that the Baratha
> > Natya was really the art of Devadasis (temple prostitutes) to please
> > their audience and admirers. This is the reason why you might have
> > seen various Baratha Natya's postures in Hindu temples. The Bharat Natya
> > helped the poor low-caste women who had been raped and
> > incarcarated by the Brahmins, to attract customers and eke out a living.
> > To top it all, the cunning Brahmins took most of her earnings too !
> > Maybe like the art of KARATE to the Japanese, the BHARAT NATYAM is a
> > shameful national art of the Brahmins and very much part of
> > their culture.
> >
> > Whilst Sudra women were shamefully exposed to the views of the lecherous
> > Aryan male, the Brahmin females were locked up in a life of
> > seclusion ! That is why Sudra women in Kerala were, down to the 20th
> > century forbidden from wearing bodices or any form of upper
> > body-garment which the Aryan women were forced to wear. The Sudra women
> > thus had to appear top-less in order to satisfy the
> > voyeuristic desires of the ogling Brahmin males !
> >
> > THE KAMASUTRA
> >
> > Brahminism has also created Kamasutra -a set of instructions on how to
> > have sexual intercourse. Some of the postures detailed in
> > Kamasutra are so complex that they can only be performed with the help
> > of one or more ASSISTANTS!
> >
> > The Kamasutra was written in one of the Devadasi temples, those brothels
> > where Sudra women were forced to a life of prostitution by their
> > Brahmin captors. It is in these brothel-temples that Sanskrit, that
> > hybrid mongrel language descended from the Old Indo-Aryan
> > tribal tongues and the Sudric (Dravidian & Kolarian) languages.
> >
> > THE DEVADASI SYSTEM THRIVES
> >
> > UNI. - TIMES OF INDIA - 10th Nov. 1987: confirms that the practice of
> > dedicating young Harijan girls (Mahars, Mangs, Dowris and
> > Chambhar) at childhood to a goddess, and their initiation into
> > prostitution when they attain puberty continues to thrive in Karnataka,
> > Andhra
> > Pradesh and other parts of South India. This is largely due to social
> > backwardness, poverty and illiteracy, according to a study by two
> > doctors of the India Health Organisation.
> >
> > The report clearly indicates that the Devadasi system was the result of
> > a conspiracy between the feudal class and the priests (Brahmins),
> > who with their ideological and religious hold over the peasants and
> > craftsmen, devised a practice which acquired religious sanction. They
> > noted in their study on - "Devadasis - the link between religious
> > culture and child prostitution".
> >
> > The study revealed that girls from poor families were sold after puberty
> > at private auctions to a master who initially paid a sum of money to
> > the families ranging from Rs. 500 to 5000.
> >
> > The study, made during health camps organised by the World Health
> > Organisation (WHO) in the devadasi populated areas, revealed that
> > the dedicated girls formed 15 percent of the total women involved in
> > prostitution in the country, and as much as 70 percent to 80 percent of
> > the prostitutes in the border districts of Karnataka and Maharashtra.
> >
> > This shows the extent to which the lecherous Brahmins raped and
> > exploited the Negroid Sudra women of South India.
> >
> > THE NAKED HINDU YOGIS OF KASHI
> >
> > Many of the Yogis of Kashi (Banaras) live naked and beg for their
> > living. They live in dirty, unhygienic conditions, and drug addiction is
> > rife
> > among them.
> >
> > Our so-called leaders and intellectuals have all contributed to the
> > superstitious beliefs and they have helped these saints to thrive and
> > practise deceptive methods to cheat the public. It is an utter shame
> > that among the worshippers of such naked godmen, there are a number
> > of high court judges, advocates, engineers, doctors, professors,
> > politicians, cinema actors and actresses.
> >
> > For more details on these Hindu saints and Yogis, watch the documentary
> > video - "SHOCKING ASIA" - which is available from the following
> > addresses: Atlas International Film GMBH, Munich, W. Germany. Replay
> > Video, London, G. Britain. Distribution First Film Organisation,
> > Hong Kong.
> >
> > STARK NAKED BATHS!
> >
> > AGENCIES News Agency reports on 23-9-87 that at Kurushetra (India) about
> > 1,000 NAKED Hindu "Sadhus" (saints) plunged themselves
> > into the river during a solar eclipse, claiming this to be a "holy dip".
> > Over one million pilgrims, naked and semi- naked, both male and
> > female, also followed them into the river. The largest of the pools is
> > Brahmasarovar, and is said to accommodate 100,000 bathers at a time.
> > There was still no room for everyone in the water at one time and there
> > was much pushing and shoving. The huge crowds waiting on the
> > banks barely had space to turn around. People crowded the shore waiting
> > for their chance. This is the position of "holy dip" everywhere in
> > India. A Haryana Government spokesman said that they posted 20,000
> > policemen to avoid misuse of this mixing opportunity for perverted
> > reasons.
> >
> > The reason why the Brahmins walk naked is that they could more easily
> > force the lower castes to consume their urine and
> > dung; the Brahmins could also more easily rape lower-caste women. Thus,
> > when Brahmins walk along the road, they stop at
> > intervals in order to relieve themselves, when their disciples
> > immediately crowd around to obtain a piece of `holy' excrement in order
> > to
> > consume it. If a Brahmin decides to copulate with any low-caste woman he
> > sees, he immediately rapes her in public without any fear of
> > retribution. These disorders were put down by the British in the bigger
> > cities, but they continue in the rural countryside.
> >
> > For those who don't know why the Brahmins forced the Sudras and other
> > lower castes to consume dung and urine is that by
> > this means, diseases and ailments would develop among the Sudras. Thus,
> > the non-Brahmins would suffer from perpetual
> > diseases and death. In addition, it reminded the Sudras of their
> > `rightful and correct' place in Hinduism - namely, as the animal slaves
> > of
> > the Brahmins. Maybe, even animals were treated better than Sudroids.
> >
> > In addition to this spectacle, the pilgrims also look directly at the
> > sun with the naked eye. Scientists and doctors strongly advise against
> > this
> > as it is likely to cause blindness.
> >
> > The reason why the Brahmins encouraged the low-caste people to look at
> > the Sun is that they desired to blind them into
> > sightless slavery. Due to Brahmin brainwashing, a large fraction of the
> > population became blind by staring at the Sun, thereby
> > becoming further degraded in status and posing no threat to the evil
> > Brahmanism.
> >
> > THE MIRACLE MAN
> >
> > DPA News (6-1 1 -86) reports that Police have arrested a "miracle man"
> > in the Western India city of Prune for raping a number of women,
> > on the pretext of solving their troubles, by making them sit naked
> > before an idol which was supposed to render "divine advice". He would
> > hold a blank sheet of paper over a fire on which written words would
> > appear. He would then convince the women to have sex with him on
> > the strength of the "miracle". Police discovered that his "divine
> > advance" was nothing but a simple chemical trick by which words written
> > on
> > paper with invisible ink became legible when held over a flame.
> >
> > HOW RISHIS WERE CREATED?
> >
> > According to the Hindu Holy books, God Brahma arranged the marriage of
> > god Shiva to goddess Parvathi. When they went around the fire
> > as per Hindu religious ritual, god Shiva looked at the thighs of goddess
> > Parvathi and ejaculated his semen into the Fire and they became
> > Rishis (priests). According to the Hindu Puranas this "god" can do such
> > a filthy act!
> >
> > SEX WITH COWS
> >
> > In many Hindu temples there are sculptures depicting men having sex not
> > only with women but also cows. What is the meaning of this? Is
> > not the cow sacred? If it is, then it should be worshipped not sexually
> > assaulted!
> >
> > The answer is that the low-caste people were so frustrated because the
> > Brahmins had abducted all their women as Devadasis that they
> > had to satisfy their desires with cows. Whilst the Brahmins were busy
> > raping their women, the Sudra men had to copulate with cows !
> >
> > RAMAYANA IS THE CULTURE OF ARYANS (BRAHMINS)!
> >
> > Dr. Charles claims that the Ramayana is nothing but the culture and way
> > of life of the Aryans (Brahmins) which is still having a great impact
> > on present day India. According to Ramayana, the Aryans (Brahmins) used
> > to drink liquor, used to eat meat, used to have many wives, and
> > prostitution was a way of life to the Rishis (Priests) and even the
> > gods. This was true to the barbaric Aryan way of life.
> >
> > The concept of "re-incarnation" or avtar is the bed-rock of the Hindu
> > belief. Rama, Vishu, Hanuman etc ... are all believed to be avtars. But
> > according to Hindu scholar Kshiti Mohan Sen, there is nothing in the
> > Vedas to support this belief! Rather, it is an Aryan / Chinese concept
> > that may have crept into the Hindu thoughts. This shakes the whole
> > foundation of Hinduism!
> >
> > "Hindus accept many incarnations of God. While some Hindus take the
> > doctrine literally and accept figures like Rama, Krishna, and Buddha
> > as actual incarnation, others prefer to treat it as a useful myth.
> >
> > The origin of the concept of avatara is obscure. It cannot be found in
> > the Vedas, but it is possible that it came from the Aryan settlers in
> > Iran.
> > The idea of discontinuous incarnations can be found in the Bahram Yasht,
> > which forms part of the Zoroastrian corpus, where incarnations
> > of the deity Verethragna can be seen. According to another theory, the
> > concept originated in central Asia, as the Bahram Yasht shows
> > traces of Chinese influence and mythology. In none of these beliefs,
> > however, does the concept play as important a part as it does in post-
> > Vedic Hindu thought, particularly that of the epics, Ranayana and
> > Mahabharata.
> >
> > And the reason why it forms an integral part of Brahmanism is that it
> > sanctions the inhuman slavery to Brahmins in Hinduism.
> > Since the lowe-caste persons had committed sins in their previous lives,
> > the Brahmins were justly punishing them ! This form of mental
> > pollution served to further buttress the legalised slavery to Brahmins
> > that is Hinduism.
> >
> > HOW HOLY IS THE COW?
> >
> > The origin of the holiness of the cow in popular Hinduism is not quite
> > certain. The Aryans loved to eat beef, though they seem to have
> > admired the cow as a very useful animal. However, now the Hindu even
> > goes to the extent of drinking the urine of the cow. How come ?
> >
> > The reason why Hindus drink cow's urine and eat cow-dung is that the
> > Brahmins have enacted laws which force the
> > non-Brahmins, especially the Sudroid Blacks, to eat not only cow-dung
> > and drink cow-urine, but the urine and excreta of
> > Brahmin males as well. These laws and customs show the abject depth to
> > which the Brahmins had crushed the non-Brahmins.
> > So lowly and animal-like was the status of the Sudras that they even had
> > to consume the urine and dung of their Brahmin
> > masters ! Nowhere on the face of the earth, not even during the darkest
> > days of slavery in the US South, or apartheid in South Africa, did
> > a race of masters inflict a more dehumanising tyranny over a subject
> > population.
Mei Ling
In any event is it not a fact that there is such a thing as high and low
caste in your society?is it not evil?
If all indians are of one race,why are they fighting on racial lines?
Farhan Siddiqui
A.N
the answer to your first and second questions is a definite YES. But do you know
that under present Indian law, just a complaint from a lower caste person that
he/she has been mocked at (let alone harassed) by an upper caste person is enough
grounds for prosecuting the upper caste person? The upper caste can very well
argue that they are the disadvantaged lot now because of things like reservations
upto 50% for the lower castes for things from university admissions to government
jobs. Let us not take up that double-edged sword now.
Well, the point I wanted to make was that you, as the original poster, and the
person who replied to that at length, vilifying Christianity and Islam in the
process, make the false assumption that Hinduism is a RELIGION. It is not. The
basic tenet of the hindu way of life is the freedom to worship the way you want.
You can believe in any number of Gods (including Yehovah and Allah), you may
choose to be an atheist, you may see God in everything or in nothing, you can be
all of this together and still be a Hindu. People from religions that have a
founder and a given set of rules find this hard to digest at first. It will take
time, but if you are patient enough, you may come to understand what the Hindu way
of life is.
As for those defending Hinduism in the name of Sanathana Dharma, Rig Veda,
Bhagavad Gita, etc etc. they are no better than a representative of an organised
religion like Buddhism or Islam. The greatest danger to the Hindu way of life
(ofcourse I leave out casteism which is an inherent evil) comes not from other
organised religion but from within Hinduism itself, from those who want to make it
into an organised, hierarchical, structured RELIGION just like any other religion,
to defend their "faith" (whatever that may be).
Sexuality has always been a fascinating subject in almost all the Hindu books of
yore. If you think that is bad, that is fine. A true Hindu will respect that. But
as a Hindu, I am proud to say this - that I may disagree with you, but I will
respect you for your stance. As a Hindu trying to break off years of upbringing
steeped in Victorian hypocrisy brought about by the British rule (I won't blame
the British for any other thing), I will say this. Human sexuality is nothing
shameful, it is not a thing to be hidden and given undue importance, it is just
like any other human urge like eating or drinking. If epics can talk about feasts
they can talk about sex also - graphically. By trying to suppress, you will
succeed only in giving it an importance it just does not deserve.
Just look at the hip-gyration and such like dance sequences in most of the
commercial Indian films, listen to the suggestive dialogues in films and TV
serials (if you know any of the umpteen languages) and you will find far more
sensual poison that has the potential to corrupt minds than even the most banal of
porno movies. This decadent culture of hypocrisy that Indians practice now is in
direct conflict with the art of sex and sensual pleasures espoused in Kamasutra or
Tantric Yoga.
So I would suggest that you study first hand the complex thought process of the
Hindu way of life (not religion and rituals and certainly not the vitriolic noise
of the so-called Hindu extremist crowd) if you are really interested in grasping
what makes it so resilient inspite of its many contradictions.
"The Goal is the same, the paths may differ". Why quarrel on the way?
God Bless.
richard
How? You see if you kill a nonmuslim you can get 72 virgins in
Heaven!
According to koran:
" for them (the Muslims) is reserved a definite
provision, fruit and a great honour in the Gardens of
Bliss reclining upon couches arranged face to face,
a cup from a fountain being passed round
to them, white, a pleasure to the drinkers .....
and with them wide-eyed maidens flexing
their glances as if they were slightly
concealed pearls." ( The Rangers 40: 45 )
Not ugly women! Swelling breasts!
"Surely for the God-fearing
awaits a place of security,
gardens and vineyards
and maidens with swelling bosoms."
( The Tidings 30 )
Should we not have some alcohol? Some say it is prohibited in
islam! No! Not in heaven! See below. Wine is plenty with sex!
"Surely the pious shall be in bliss,
upon couches gazing:
You find in their faces the shining bliss
as they are offered to drink of wine sealed,
whose seal is musk and whose mixture
is Tasnim, a fountain at which to drink
those brought nigh."
( The Stinters 20: 25 )
Fed up of sex with females??
Try males!
" God has……. provided them radiancy
and delight
and recompensed them for their (Muslim's) patience
With a Garden, and silk;
therein they shall see neither sun nor
bitter cold;
near them shall be its shades, and its clusters
hung meekly down,
and there shall be passed around them
vessels of silver, and large drinking
cups of crystal,
crystal of silver measure
very exactly.
And therein they shall be given to
drink a cup whose ingredient is ginger;
therein a spring whose name is Salsabil
Immortal youths shall go about them;
When thou seest them, thou supposest them
dispersed pearls,
When you see them you see the divine
happiness and a great kingdom.
Upon them shall be clothing of silk
and brocade; they are embellished with
bracelets of silver, and their Lord shall
give them to drink a pure draught.
(Man 76: 10-25)
This coaxing description of the unageing lads is also found in
Mount LII: 20:
"While they hand therein a cup one to another
Wherein is no idle talk, no cause of sin,
and there go around youths, their own, as
if they were concealed pearls."
See it is not sin as all this is in heaven where there is no sin!
Wonder why muslims are obsessed with sex and penis all the time?
Muslims can have plenty of postmortem sex.
While alive also they can have 4 permanent wives and any number
of temporary wives. Sodomy is freely allowed. Women cant
complain! Sex is freely allowed with concubines(conquered
people) and slaves. Sex Sex Sex- all kinds of sex!
Biggest incentive for nonmuslim men to become muslim in addition
to looting!
Wonder why islam is attractive to sexy men?
Mohammed's sexual strength is equal to 30 men.
Anas said, "The prophet used to visit all his wives in an hour
round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number."
I asked Anas, "Had the prophet the strength for it?" Anas
replied, "We used to say that the prophet was given the strength
of thirty (men). " Vol. 1:268
Any bearing to Anwar Ibrahim's sodomy trial?
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Mei Ling
You did very well by attempting to explain your stand
rather than maligning other religions,which of course,has
its own fault lines.
However,it raises more questions than being answered.
The following site:-http://dalitstan.org/journal/ has a very
different story.I also understand lately,that all people who
convert are not allowed into temples if they come back to
hinduism.
Sex is not a dirty habit and I fully agree with you but what
is being discussed is pervision in hinduism.
"A.N" wrote:
kha...@my-deja.com
> This article is all lies from start to end as anyone can go to
the
> library and look up the verses and these porno ones are NOT in there
> or the teens would spend all their time reading scriptures !
> Muslims are like Nazis . they think if they repeat a lie oftten
enough
> gullible humans will believe them ..
LOOK WHO IS TALKING.
Mo
Neil Ozman
As we are all aware that human beings have the tendency to abuse their
position in many cases. The Brahmins are ment to be the temporal heads
of society and they are ment to ensure that society is guided in spritual
matters. Instead a cult has developed into what is now known as
"Hinduism" but in fact should be known as Brahminism.
The Brahmins have been misusing the Vedas to cement their position as
heads of society not just spritual heads. They no longer guide society and
serve society BUT are self serving and have been misleading society.
The fact is that people become by doing, it is your nature and not your
birth
that dictates your position in the "caste system", which is really a
division of
labour and no more. The fact is that God has by His example proved that
caste is no barrier to being a Brahmin, a Ksatriya (kings, queens,
politicians, lawyers, part of the armed forces, police, etc...), Vaisya (a
farmer or merchant) and a Sudar (one of the labour class). These are job
classifications and no more. In England it is known as the "Class system".
The fact is that it is YOUR propensity or your skills that attract you to
one of these professions/jobs, no everyone is suitable for being the say PM
of a country.
If one reads the Gita or the past times of Lord Krishna you will know he was
"born" in a Vaisya family ! God is not bound by caste but to show us that
birth
is not a determinant of your position BUT your nature. As discussed many a
time that many saints and sages were born in so called "low" castes but they
actually had Brahiminical propensity, they are revered as spritual guides by
society.
Again I refer you to the Gita and no where in the Gita does the Lord ever
say
that people are barred from worshipping him or entering temples, etc...
based
upon caste, creed, etc.... it is Brahminism that is responsible for this.
As to the question of race ... Well this is not a problem that is isolated
to
Indians only. One can see that Arabs, Europeans, Asians (of Chinese
origins), etc... are fighting one another ! Is this not a common problem in
this world ? Are we not all driven by false ego ? Meaning that we think we
are this body and that we have the right to lord it over Gods creation. Are
we not putting ourselves above God and others ? Are we read to serve
one another or are we busy trying to be served/being top dog ?
Thank-you for your reply, I hope the above helps. Regards ....
Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:395136EB...@hotmail.com...
Neil Ozman
Hopefully you have read my replies and have an understanding of
the historical as well as the nature of power hungry people.
You will also notice that the http://dalitstan.org/journal/ site mentions
at length Brahminism (see below).
Politics Index
Recent History Index
Brahmanist Genocides Index
Brahmanism a.k.a. Hinduism
Human Rights Index
Sudra Holocaust Index
Letters to Us
Site Map
Links Index
Brahmins are self serving and in fact have been very active in
cementing their position in society. They have been ruling
India and are part of the "elite" of the criminal society of India.
I will again point you the Gita and will clearly state that God
tells us in Chapter 18 verse 66 "The Perfection of Renunciation" the
following :
Abandon all verieties of religion and just surrender unto Me.
I shall deliver you from all sinful rections. Do not fear.
As it can be seen that God does not care about our past and
what faith we followed. He loves us all eternally and treats us
all equally. It is Brahminism and selfish people who devide
society and and insinere in their desire to serve society and
are more interested in cementing their position !
Regards ......
Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39519CB1...@hotmail.com...
Neil Ozman
fabricating the truth to malign others to futher their cause. This
posting is exposing their true intent.
Mo <mo2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:F1a45.196$yT5....@nnrp3.clara.net...
Pervaiz Rizvi
Mei Ling wrote:
> Again,a very good piece of very sensible explaination.
> You did very well by attempting to explain your stand
> rather than maligning other religions,which of course,has
> its own fault lines.
> However,it raises more questions than being answered.
> The following site:-http://dalitstan.org/journal/ has a very
> different story.I also understand lately,that all people who
> convert are not allowed into temples if they come back to
> hinduism.
> Sex is not a dirty habit and I fully agree with you but what
> is being discussed is pervision in hinduism.
>
> "A.N" wrote:
>
> > Sorry to intervene, but I thought I would try to clarify a little. Before that,
> > the answer to your first and second questions is a definite YES. But do you know
> > that under present Indian law, just a complaint from a lower caste person that
> > he/she has been mocked at (let alone harassed) by an upper caste person is enough
Still so many of the shudras(they being hindoos are equally harami )are
harrased,molested any explaination for that??
>
> > grounds for prosecuting the upper caste person? The upper caste can very well
> > argue that they are the disadvantaged lot now because of things like reservations
> > upto 50% for the lower castes for things from university admissions to government
> > jobs. Let us not take up that double-edged sword now.
> >
> > Well, the point I wanted to make was that you, as the original poster, and the
> > person who replied to that at length, vilifying Christianity and Islam in the
> > process, make the false assumption that Hinduism is a RELIGION. It is not. The
IT IS A FUCKING CULT
Mei Ling
University Press 1957.Would you care to explain,please.
The Laws of Manu (excerpt)
I.3. On account of his pre-eminence, on account of the superiority of
his origin, on account of his observance of particular restrictive
rules, and on account of his particular sanctification, the brahmin is
the lord of all castes.
I.4. The brahmin, the kshatriya, and the vaisya castes are the twice-
born ones, but the fourth, the sudra, has one birth only. . . .
I.31. But for the sake of the prosperity of the worlds, [the Creator]
caused the brahmin, the kshatriya, the vaisya, and the sudra to proceed
from his mouth, his arms, his thighs, and his feet.
I.87. But in order to protect this universe He, the most resplendent
one, assigned separate duties and occupations to those who sprang from
his mouth, arms, thighs, and feet.
X.5. In all castes those children only which are begotten in the direct
order on wedded wives, equal in caste and married as virgins, are to be
considered as belonging to the same caste as their fathers.
X.24. By adultery committed by persons of different castes, by
marriages with women who ought not to be married, and by the neglect of
the duties and occupations prescribed to each, are produced sons who
owe their origin to a confusion of the castes.
VII.352. Men who commit adultery with the wives of others, the king
shall cause to be marked by punishments which cause terror, and
afterwards banish.
VII.353. For by adultery is caused a mixture of the castes among men;
thence follows sin, which cuts up even the roots and causes the
destruction of everything.
DUTIES OF MEMBERS OF THE FOUR CASTES
X.97. It is better to discharge one's own appointed duty incompletely
than to perform completely that of another; for he who lives according
to the law of another caste is instantly excluded from his own.
Duties of a Brahmin
X.75. Teaching, studying, sacrificing for himself, sacrificing for
others, making gifts and receiving them are the six acts prescribed for
a brahmin.
X.76. But among the six acts ordained for him three are his means of
subsistence, sacrificing for others, teaching, and accepting gifts from
pure men.
X.81. But a brahmin, unable to subsist by his peculiar occupations just
mentioned, may live according to the law applicable to kshatriyas; for
the latter is next to him in rank.
X.82. If it be asked, "How shall it be, if he cannot maintain himself
by either of these occupations?" the answer is, he may adopt a vaisya's
mode of life, employing himself in agriculture and rearing cattle.
X.83. But a brahmin, or a kshatriya, living by a vaisya's mode of
subsistence, shall carefully avoid the pursuit of agriculture, which
causes injury to many beings and depends on others.
X.85. But he who, through a want of means of subsistence, gives up the
strictness with respect to his duties, may sell, in order to increase
his wealth, the commodities sold by vaisyas, making however the
following exceptions:
X.92. By selling flesh, salt, and lac [resin] a brahmin at once becomes
an outcaste; by selling milk he becomes equal to a sudra in three days.
X.93. But by willingly selling in this world other forbidden
commodities, a brahmin assumes after seven nights the character of a
vaisya.
III.77. As all living creatures subsist by receiving support from air,
even so the members of all orders subsist by receiving support from the
householder.
III.78. Because men of the three other orders are daily supported by
the householder with gifts of sacred knowledge and food, therefore the
order of householders is the most excellent order.
III.89. And in accordance with the precepts of the Veda and of the
traditional texts, the householder is declared to be superior to all of
[the other three orders]; for he supports the other three.
Duties of a Kshatriya
VII.1. I will declare the duties of kings, and show how a king should
conduct himself, . . . and how he can obtain highest success.
VII.2. A kshatriya who has received according to the rule the sacrament
prescribed by the Veda, must duly protect this whole world.
VII.3. For, when these creatures, being without a king, through fear
dispersed in all directions, the Lord created a king for the protection
of this whole creation.
VII.14. For the king's sake the Lord formerly created his own son,
Punishment, the protector of all creatures, an incarnation of the law,
formed of Brahman's glory.
VII.18. Punishment alone governs all created beings, punishment alone
protects them, punishment watches over them while they sleep; the wise
declare punishment to be identical with the law.
VII.19. If punishment is properly inflicted after due consideration, it
makes all people happy; but inflicted without consideration, it
destroys everything.
VII.20. If the king did not, without tiring, inflict punishment on
those worthy to be punished, the stronger would roast the weaker, like
fish on a spit.
VII.35. The king has been created to be the protector of the castes and
orders, who, all according to their rank, discharge their several
duties.
VII.87. A king who, while he protects his people, is defied by foes, be
they equal in strength, or stronger, or weaker, must not shrink from
battle, remembering the duty of kshatriyas.
VII.88. Not to turn back in battle, to protect the people, to honour
the brahmins, is the best means for a king to secure happiness.
VII.89. Those kings who, seeking to slay each other in battle, fight
with the utmost exertion and do not turn back, go to heaven.
Duties of a Vaisya
IX.326. After a vaisya has received the sacraments and has taken a
wife, he shall be always attentive to the business whereby he may
subsist and to that of tending cattle.
IX.327. For when the Lord of creatures created cattle, he made them
over to the vaisya; to the brahmins and the the king he entrusted all
created beings.
IX.328. A vaisya must never conceive this wish, "I will not keep
cattle"; and if a vaisya is willing to keep them, they must never be
kept by men of other castes.
IX.329. A vaisya must know the respective value of gems, or pearls, of
coral, of metals, of cloth made of thread, of perfumes, and of
condiments.
IX.332. He must be acquainted with the proper wages of servants with
the various languages of men, with the manner of keeping goods, and the
rule of purchase and sale.
IX.333. Let him exert himself to the utmost in order to increase his
property in a righteous manner, and let him zealously give food to all
created beings.
Duties of a Sudra
IX.334. [T]o serve brahmins who are learned in the Vedas, householders,
and famous for virtue, is the highest duty of a sudra, which leads to
beatitude.
IX.335. A sudra who is pure, the servant of his betters, gentle in his
speech, and free from pride, and always seeks a refuge with brahmins,
attains a higher caste.
IX.413. But a sudra . . . may [be compelled] to do servile work; for he
was created by the Self-existent [Lord] to be the slave of a brahmin.
IX.414. A sudra, though emancipated by his master, is not released from
servitude; since that is innate in him, who can set him free from it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
From: A Source Book in Indian Philosophy, edited by Sarvepalli
Radhakrishnan and Charles A. Moore (Princeton: Princeton University
Press, 1957).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Mo
of them very stupid . Very few Indians even know who Manu was ,
probably a minister in some lowly kingdom and nobody takes any notice
of his writings except Pakistanis . Caste discrimination has been
banned by law ever since India became independent 50 years ago .
It may happen just as the whites discriminate against blacks and Jews
in America but the law comes down on them as it should ..
saty...@my-deja.com
Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I received the following text from Mr.Farhan Siddiqi from Princeton
> University Press 1957.Would you care to explain,please.
>
> The Laws of Manu (excerpt)
>
Dear Mr Ling, pl note that I already replid to this. I am reposting
this:
I am glad you replied! We can discuss properly. I would like to point
out:
1) Manu's Laws are *not* a religious work! This was a code of conduct
for legal purposes. It was law!
2) Nobody worships Manu as God etc!!
3) There were several Manus. Manu was the name given to a law writer
just as Vyasa as "editor".
4) Not one person follows Manu today.
5) Manu was not applied in India as a law book for probably 1000yrs at
least!
6)The constitution of India has replaced everything else as a law giver
today!
7)Manu is a historical document!
8) you cant judge U.S. now by the laws of even 1960 when blacks were
not allowed to vote! You are comparing to 1500yrs ago?
9) If u read Manu entirely it will tell you he was trying to ensure
order in the society although it is cruel by todays standards.
10) Brahmanas and all varnas were strictly monitored then. If a
Brahmana did not live upto some expectations he loses that status! Manu
was not interested in favouring one over the other but to ensure order.
He sacrificed freedom for order. We cant agree with that today. 11) All
smritis,law books included can be thrown out according to tradition, if
they are not reasonable!
Smriti is what is given by a particular person at a particular period.
Manu does not ever say his laws are binding for ever!
12) Today people who call themselves brahmanas are working for a salary
in Govt service!! Manu would have stripped them of their status and
punished them!! They are only supposed to do intellectual and
spiritual service normally! There are not many so called brahmanas who
fit this description today!! It is true that many law books of yore
interpreted the varnas to be based on birth althought the veda says
otherwise!! Remember sruthi(veda) is final and if smriti contradits
veda , veda rules!!
In summary, this was a law book of centuries ago. To say that Hindus
live by that today is ridiculous as Indians know today.
Stupid Hindus who think Manu should be revived of stupid foreigners who
think it is being practiced are both selfish and selfish!
If you can show me a religious text such as Gita, veda etc that would
be better! You cannot as there is no sanction for caste discrimination
based on birth in Hindu *scriptures*.
Pl note the word brahmana is *only* for a person with intellectual and
spiritual qualiities irrespective of birth according to hindu religion.
Even if u take the *law* book of Manu if a person does not have these
qualities he is not a brahmin!
A.N
> Still so many of the shudras(they being hindoos are equally harami )are
> harrased,molested any explaination for that??
I don't understand words like harami because I am from the deepest south of India. What
you say is unfortunately true, as illustrated by the killings of innocent villagers by the
upper caste Ranvir Sena in Bihar. I don't have an explanation for that. Maybe it is a
continuation of centuries-old habits, habits that die hard. But the lower castes are also
organising militantly. And ultimately "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". All
the political parties encourage such divisions in society because they are interested only
in "vote banks".
> IT IS A FUCKING CULT
Yes it is, and it is not. Fucking is involved ofcourse, without which any species won't be
able to propagate. But hinduism is definitely not a cult, although there are thousands of
cults within hinduism, often at loggerheads with each other. And maybe all religions
should be fucking cults because religious beliefs are established by humans who have to
fuck to have still more followers?
Please do not allow hatred to cloud your reasoning powers.
A.N
> Again,a very good piece of very sensible explaination.
> You did very well by attempting to explain your stand
> rather than maligning other religions,which of course,has
> its own fault lines.
Agreed, all lines of reasonings have their own faults.
> However,it raises more questions than being answered.
> The following site:-http://dalitstan.org/journal/ has a very
> different story.I also understand lately,that all people who
> convert are not allowed into temples if they come back to
> hinduism.
I was not aware of that, honestly. I am from south India, where religious extremism has
not had that much of chances to rear its ugly head, although there have been
"incidents". One of south India's largest Hindu shrines, situated in the forests of the
state of Kerala (the second highest revenue earner after the Tirupati temple in Andhra
Pradesh) opens its doors from the middle of November to the middle of January. People of
all religions can worship at this shrine. In contrast, if you go to some other
established temples, you will find the board: "Non-Hindus are not allowed into the
temple" (or something to that effect). The point is, there are temples which allow all
people to worship there, irrespective of religion, and temples which allow only Hindus
to worship. Maybe in the latter case (and that too in north India, I would guess) what
you mention may be very true.
Another thing is "conversion" from and "coming back" to Hinduism. Ofcourse anybody
wishing to become a Christian, Islam or a member of such organised religion has to
undergo a conversion ceremony. But as I pointed out in my earlier posting, it is the
very nature of Hinduism that makes the whole business of "coming back" or "reconversion"
utterly foolish at worst and totally irrelevant at best. The so-called "reconversion"
drives carried out by the hindu zealots would only harm the very nature of hinduism. One
does not need to be "reconverted" formally to become a Hindu again.
> Sex is not a dirty habit and I fully agree with you but what
> is being discussed is pervision in hinduism.
You mean perversion? That is exactly what I set out to explain in my first mail when I
compared the descriptions of feasts to descriptions of sexual acts. When you encounter
endless discourses on fine food or French wine (which are basically for the senses) do
you consider them perversions? The people of bygone era may have had that maturity (or
shall I say a childlike brutal innocence) to treat all human pleasures on the same
level, while "civilized" modern man gives undue importance to some in relation to other
pleasures. Anyway that is my reasoning and I do not want to be seen as "defending" the
so-called "perversions". There are people who worship Bhagwan Rajaneesh and those who
laugh his cult off (I am neither by the way :-)), but that is what hinduism (not ritual
brahminism) is about. And to treat Ramayana or Bhagawad Gita as "holy treatises"
(similar to the Bible or Koran) is also foolish, because one may disagree with, or even
vehemently oppose, what are set forth in those and still be a Hindu. As I said earlier,
try to experience it if you want to know what it really is (and is not) - you need not
be "converted" to experience that.
God Bless.
Mo
slightly better off than the landless ones and trying to hold on to
their lands in a population which has boomed out of control - UP has
more people than Pakistan ..
Mei Ling
posting.
The crux of the matter is whether hinduism is designed to
please only the upper-caste and therefore any thing and everything
goes for the upper-caste whereas the lower caste are treated as
sex-objects for the pleasures of Brahmins.
Two strong arguments favour the above premises.
One,the government of india embarking on bringing back the converts,
particularly,christians,back to hinduism is now faced with this situation,
where, these reconverts are forbidden entry into hindu-temples because
originally they were low-caste.Thus no salvation for them by default of
their birth.
Secondly the worshipping of siva lingum and loni,which actually are the
sex organs of human and the performance of ashwamedha-ritual in ramayana
cannot said to be "acceptable",even, in most jovial terms let alone religiously or
as a way of life.
In the light of the above said practices,any argument,insisting caste system is
nothing but evolution of system of labour or as you may put it ,hinduism, aims
to please our senses holds no water.Please comment.
Mei Ling
gain by belittling indians and their practices.
The onus of rationalising hinduism is entirely yours alone.
Mo
breaking the law and should be closed down .
Mei Ling
Are you not contridicting yourself?
Mo wrote:-
one or two temples have said they cant enter but even they are
breaking the law and should be closed down .
>
> A.J. Philip
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth in Puri Jagatguru Nischalananda
> Saraswati was in the news for "reconverting" 72 tribal Christians in
> the same area where Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two
> minor sons were roasted alive. Presumably, the conversions did not
> contravene the special laws that exist in Orissa. Nobody should grudge
> His Grace for his mission as long as he uses persuasion, and not force.
>
> Today in Europe and the US, the fastest growing religion is Islam. At
> its present rate of growth, Muslims will outnumber Christians in a few
> decades. Nobody can say Islam is growing at the point of the sword.
> This only proves what Sir Thomas Arnold in his classic Preaching of
> Islam had asserted, it was the "quiet, unobtrusive labours of the
> preacher and the trader", which spread the message of Islam. I wish the
> same could be said about the reconversion drive launched by His Grace
> which has as its fulcrum the project to bring all the Christians and
> Muslims who converted after 1947 back to the Hindu fold even when the
> tribals insist they are animists.
>
> It had always baffled those who know the caste system in Hinduism, how
> exactly the neo-converts would be placed. By no means could they be
> included in the four varnas or categories Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya
> and Sudra that the Vedas speak of. Obviously, they had to be outside
> the varna system like the Dalits and the Adivasis, who are being
> rechristened Vanvasis. His Grace has graciously removed this confusion.
> And when the Vishwa Hindu Parishad approves of his position, it becomes
> an interesting proposition.
>
> The Shankaracharya has promised to build "low-cost" temples, "as
> prescribed in Hindu texts", all over the country where converts from
> Christianity and Islam can jointly worship. What's more, His Grace has
> even promised them all the rights and privileges of Hindus except entry
> to existing temples "to avoid any embarrassment" and the right to marry
> Hindus. They must, of course, banish all thoughts of entering the
> "magnificent temple" which will come up in Ayodhya.
>
> Thanks to His Grace, Christians and Muslims know where exactly they
> will be if they convert. They will have low-cost "Swastika" temples
> dedicated to Lord Ganesh. But without "communion" relationship with
> Hindus, they will not be able to "garve se kaho hum Hindu hein" (say
> with pride we are Hindus). For those who know the Shankarachaarya, this
> is nothing surprising as His Grace had stated in an interview, women
> should not read the Vedas.
>
> Thus the Christian women, who convert will not be able to substitute
> the Vedas for the Bible which, incidentally, is called Vedapustakam in
> Malayalam. To be fair, His Grace had clarified that it was not because
> he wanted it that way but because the Hindu scriptures did not allow
> women to read the Vedas. It is a different matter that Pandita Ramabhai
> had converted, not because she did not read the Vedas but because she
> read it and found some of their prescriptions against women
> distasteful. It also explains why the famed Gorakhpur Press, which is
> doing a splendid job by publishing Hindu religious texts at affordable
> prices, does not publish or, at any rate, popularise the Vedas.
>
> Not only that, the neo-converts will have to make a lot more sacrifices
> to go to that "low-cost" temple, if His Grace has his way. In the
> interview I quoted, the Shankaracharya had also argued that women
> should not be given the right to property because "in every situation
> she lives under the guardianship of a man." This will be a tall order
> for the Christians and Muslims, who do not subscribe to the theory of
> karma and the cycles of birth. This has a lot to do with their
> religious traditions.
>
> For instance, the concept of equality was alien to early Christians,
> who looked down upon the Gentiles, "lepers" and tax-collectors. The
> opposition to dividing mankind into "clean" and "unclean" was
> formalised as a non-negotiable part of the new religion by the first
> church council held in Jerusalem. The council was called because some
> of the apostles had started mingling with the Gentiles. The early
> Jewish believers thought Christianity was another Jewish sect. After an
> intense debate, it was resolved that this part of their Jewish
> tradition had to be discarded. Thus Christianity became a religion
> distinct from Judaism precisely at this point of rejecting the
> distinction between the "clean" and the "unclean".
>
> So for those with such a background to be told that they will not have
> equal rights in Hinduism should they convert, is difficult to digest.
> But then allowance has to be made for the fact that Hinduism as a
> hierarchical social order and democracy as an equalising social force
> are antithetical to each other. Take the case of the social reformer,
> Mahatma Phule, who was approached by the "nationalists" to forget the
> social inequalities that existed in the society and join wholeheartedly
> in the fight against the alien rulers. He was well aware of how the
> Brahmins had used Marathas against the Mughals by temporarily making
> them Kshatriyas. But they were made Shudras once the Peshwas superseded
> the Marathas. Phule, therefore, replied that the caste discriminations
> were not a corruption but a natural outcome of the Hindu worldview. As
> Ambedkar argued later, Hindus do not practise untouchability because
> they are more cruel than others, but because it is part of their
> religion. So His Grace can hardly be blamed.
>
> However, his offer denotes a fundamental change. In the past, a whole
> battery of terms was developed from the late 19th century onwards as
> Hindu expansionism, directed towards marginal groups and tribals,
> became more organised. The attempt was to raise the social status of
> the convert and not to bring it down, to make the religion attractive.
> U.N. Mukherji's Hindus: A Dying Race (1909), which skillfully used some
> census data and projections to develop a horrifying vision of Hindu
> decline as contrasted to Muslim growth, provided the intellectual
> underpinning to the reclamation attempt.
>
> He pinpointed the subordinated castes to be the Achilles' heel of Hindu
> society and his remedies amounted to a kind of planned Sanskritisation
> from the top at Brahminical initiative. The Shuddhi movement to purify
> or reconvert marginal groups became a major pursuit in Punjab and other
> places.But this time round the Shankaracharya does not even promise a
> social uplift for the converts. So for the pre-1947 Christians, a
> majority of whom are Syrian Christians, it is only low-cost temples
> that are on offer. It is they who had taken pride in their Brahminical
> ancestry and kept their religion out of bounds for the low castes till
> the Europeans came and allowed the breezes of equality to blow into the
> churches. Small wonder that Arnold Toynbee, who had developed an
> affinity to Hinduism, answered in the negative when he was asked
> whether he would convert to that faith. As he explained, the Hindus
> would have found a new caste to dump him in.
>
> Copyright © 2000 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd.
>
>
bangman
Mei Ling wrote:
[snip]
>
> A.J. Philip
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>[snip]
> Today in Europe and the US, the fastest growing religion is Islam. At
> its present rate of growth, Muslims will outnumber Christians in a few
> decades. Nobody can say Islam is growing at the point of the sword.
> This only proves what Sir Thomas Arnold in his classic Preaching of
> Islam had asserted, it was the "quiet, unobtrusive labours of the
> preacher and the trader", which spread the message of Islam.
[snip]
Mei Ling
only.Like wise ,in this thread alone ,hindus had given varying opinions of
casteism and that too remains opinions only.At the end of the day, a revered
holy hindu high priest had given his learned ruling. .If this is not politicaly
right that does not make him a loony.The very fact that the government of india
itself sought his guidence strenghten his stand further.
The Magister wrote:
> Please understand Hinduism is not a diktat type of religion, that a
> person gives a diktat and everybody follows it. The Puri Shankracharya
> is a nut who is known to have crazy views on widow remarriage and
> other such topics. Hinduism is not like Islam or Christianity that the
> head shakes and the tail wags. And there are loonies every where.
>
> Chirag
> --
> http://india.4mg.com/ The very best of Indian Links.
> http://resume.chiragpatnaik.com/ Just learnt how to fudge one's resume, Check
it out
> http://www.thehungertsite.com/ Click and feed the Hungry.
> Just remove .in from the address to send me email
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> Crib, Because it is your right to do so.
Mo wrote:
> Only one or two temples have said they cant enter but even they are
Mei Ling
Let's take ashwamedha rites performed in Ramayana.In this rites ,Rama's
father encourages his wife to have sex with a horse and Brahmin priests.
Out of this liasion Rama was supposed to be begotten.Even in today's
pornography standard,this act would be strictly a taboo.
The worshipping of human sex organs seems nothing holy to me.
For example, would you have photographs of your fore-fathers in copulating
position as a measure of respect for them?Is this what you want our
children to witness?
The Magister wrote:
> I've removed jai-maharaj from the posting, no point giving his group
> more traffic than necessary.
>
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:23:03 -0700, Mei Ling thought that we should
> read this:
>
> :>
> :>The crux of the matter is whether hinduism is designed to
> :>please only the upper-caste and therefore any thing and everything
> :>goes for the upper-caste whereas the lower caste are treated as
> :>sex-objects for the pleasures of Brahmins.
>
> Yes the Brahmin does indeed exploit the lower caste, but it WAS so and
> things take time to change and will do so.
>
> Your last premise is incorrect and so is the argument you give for it
> I most definitely am amused. The very same brahmin will not touch a
> low caste let alone use for sexual gratification. You've been reading
> a lot of Paki literature on this count.
>
> :>
> :>Two strong arguments favour the above premises.
> :>
> :>One,the government of india embarking on bringing back the converts,
> :>particularly,christians,back to hinduism is now faced with this situation,
> :>where, these reconverts are forbidden entry into hindu-temples because
> :>originally they were low-caste.Thus no salvation for them by default of
> :>their birth.
>
> No, the government in India does not do such things, what have you
> thought India to be? An Islamic paradise? No, we are not interested to
> bring back christians into our fold, all we are interested in doing is
> to prevent this conversion menace to go to such an extreme that a day
> comes when christians ask for secession from the Indian state. The nut
> who proclaimed that reconverts are not allowed entry into hindu
> temples is just that, a nut. even the most hardline Hindu
> organisations (VHP et al) do not say so.
>
> :>Secondly the worshipping of siva lingum and loni,which actually are the
> :>sex organs of human and the performance of ashwamedha-ritual in ramayana
> :>cannot said to be "acceptable",even, in most jovial terms let alone
religiously or
> :>as a way of life.
>
> The second argument you have made for Dalit oppression is irrelevant.
>
> You tell me what is so objectionable about worshipping the organs of
> procreation, please don't go and read the Paki propaganda site, please
> tell us of what you think. What in your opinion does not make it
> "acceptable". What makes it perverse? you have not given reasons just
> your conclusions
>
> And we most certainly don't follow it either as a way of life.
>
> I still fail to see what ashwmedha yagna has to do with this.
>
> You still haven't really read AN's reply have you?
bangman
Mei Ling wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > A.J. Philip
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >[snip]
> > Today in Europe and the US, the fastest growing religion is Islam.
> At
> > its present rate of growth, Muslims will outnumber Christians in a
> few
> > decades. Nobody can say Islam is growing at the point of the sword.
> > This only proves what Sir Thomas Arnold in his classic Preaching of
> > Islam had asserted, it was the "quiet, unobtrusive labours of the
> > preacher and the trader", which spread the message of Islam.
[snip]
Mo
are NOT in Hindu scriptures , just go and check them out in your
library . Pakistanis think people are too stupid to cross check ..
mahmoet
MeiLing?
Hindu religion has its own way as well as others
Has any Hindu offended you?
If you are really a chinese you would not bother about other's belief,
you shall maintain harmonius living with other unless somebody is
offending you.
Cheers.
--
**************************************
* m a h m o e t *
**************************************
Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<39525F96...@hotmail.com>...
> I received the following text from Mr.Farhan Siddiqi from Princeton
> University Press 1957.Would you care to explain,please.
>
> The Laws of Manu (excerpt)
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
> You are certainly entitled to your opinion but that what it remains,yours
> only.Like wise ,in this thread alone ,hindus had given varying opinions of
> casteism and that too remains opinions only.At the end of the day, a revered
> holy hindu high priest had given his learned ruling. .If this is not politicaly
>
> right that does not make him a loony.The very fact that the government of india
>
> itself sought his guidence strenghten his stand further.
This alleged fact is purely a figment of imagination. The government of India seeks
no guidance from any religious hindu leader. Never.
Mei Ling
Indian Express reproduced below.
A.J. Philip
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth in Puri Jagatguru Nischalananda
> Saraswati was in the news for "reconverting" 72 tribal Christians
in
> the same area where Australian missionary Graham Staines and his
two
> minor sons were roasted alive. Presumably, the conversions did
not
> contravene the special laws that exist in Orissa. Nobody should
grudge
> His Grace for his mission as long as he uses persuasion, and not
force.
>
> Today in Europe and the US, the fastest growing religion is Islam.
At
> its present rate of growth, Muslims will outnumber Christians
in a few
> decades. Nobody can say Islam is growing at the point of the
sword.
> This only proves what Sir Thomas Arnold in his classic Preaching
of
> Islam had asserted, it was the "quiet, unobtrusive labours of the
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
Mei Ling wrote:
You may be right for I based my opinion on an article by A.J.Philip of
Indian Express reproduced below.
A.J. Philip
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth in Puri Jagatguru Nischalananda
> Saraswati was in the news for "reconverting" 72 tribal Christians in
> the same area where Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two
> minor sons were roasted alive. Presumably, the conversions did not
> contravene the special laws that exist in Orissa. Nobody should grudge
> His Grace for his mission as long as he uses persuasion, and not force.
> Copyright © 2000 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd.
Fisjono
>From: mahmoet mah...@my-deja.com
>Date: 6/24/00 7:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8j2f4q$rd5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
> What actually you are trying to pursue with such kind of posting
>MeiLing?
>Hindu religion has its own way as well as others
>Has any Hindu offended you?
>If you are really a chinese you would not bother about other's belief,
>you shall maintain harmonius living with other unless somebody is
>offending you.
>
>Cheers.
>
>
>--
>**************************************
>* m a h m o e t *
>**************************************
>
>
Neil Ozman
Neil Ozman <nei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:...
> > Again,a very good piece of very sensible explaination.
> > You did very well by attempting to explain your stand
> > rather than maligning other religions,which of course,has
> > its own fault lines.
> > The following site:-http://dalitstan.org/journal/ has a very
> > different story.I also understand lately,that all people who
> > convert are not allowed into temples if they come back to
> > hinduism.
> > is being discussed is pervision in hinduism.
> >
> >
> > > Sorry to intervene, but I thought I would try to clarify a little.
> Before that,
> > > the answer to your first and second questions is a definite YES. But
do
> you know
> > > that under present Indian law, just a complaint from a lower caste
> person that
> > > he/she has been mocked at (let alone harassed) by an upper caste
person
> is enough
very
> well
> > > argue that they are the disadvantaged lot now because of things like
> reservations
> > > upto 50% for the lower castes for things from university admissions to
> government
> > > jobs. Let us not take up that double-edged sword now.
> > >
> > > Well, the point I wanted to make was that you, as the original poster,
> and the
> > > person who replied to that at length, vilifying Christianity and Islam
> in the
> > > process, make the false assumption that Hinduism is a RELIGION. It is
> not. The
> you want.
> > > You can believe in any number of Gods (including Yehovah and Allah),
you
> may
> > > choose to be an atheist, you may see God in everything or in nothing,
> you can be
> > > all of this together and still be a Hindu. People from religions that
> have a
> > > founder and a given set of rules find this hard to digest at first. It
> will take
> > > time, but if you are patient enough, you may come to understand what
> Hindu way
> > > of life is.
> > >
> > > As for those defending Hinduism in the name of Sanathana Dharma, Rig
> Veda,
> > > Bhagavad Gita, etc etc. they are no better than a representative of an
> organised
of
Mei Ling
of your postings were misdirected.
Anyway,in your first posting you were talking about hinduism against
islam and christianity ,Aryan invasion if india being not true and the hindu
epic of mahabarata is actually about woman's honour.Out of politness
and also due to my very little knowledge of hinduism,I did not reject it
outright.In other words,if you were charged with murder,pointing your
finger at the accuser as equally murderous is not a mitigating factor.Also,
while the whole world accepts Aryan invasion of india whereas you are
rejecting it.I can only say you have an uphill task.Talking about Mahabarata,
four man married to one woman whose mother bore the first child illegitimately
does not seems an honourable thing to do.
In your second thread the thrust of the matter was brahmanism.You are, in
short, saying caste system is a division of labour.In your third,you are
somewhat
saying that system had been abused.Again,out of courtesy,I left it at that.
Simply because ,no right thinking person will buy this kind of reasoning.
Any division of labour,by birth,that went unchecked for thousands of years
in the name of religion is tottally unacceptable.That is the main reason why
I raised the issue of low-caste hindus not being allowed in temples even
today.
Now,in my opinion,brahmanism and hinduism in so entangled you cannot have
one without the other.Further.I honestly do not wish to raise more questions
that may put you in a difficult position.I am not here to malign your religion,
I was simply shocked at the amount of pervertion in hinduism.
I also feel this thread has gone for far too long and if hurts you all to answer
and face the truath,please do not and let this matter rest.At least,for the time
being.
May god or gods bless you too.
Neil Ozman
What do you actually know ? The Mahabarata is the conclusion to the Gita !
The Aryan invasion theory is just a theory and no more, if you look in the
English thesaurus the word means : Conjecture, speculation, hypothisis,
presumption,
etc.... in other words there is no proof to the theory. This Aryan invasion
theory is
being taught as a "fact" without any bases. The "whole world" does not in
fact
accept the theory, this has been a pattern that the colonial masters have
been
using to justify their invasion and occupation of other peoples land. In
other words
they invaded and so have we, therefore it is okay.
Here in Australia the Aboriginals are told that they are just migrant that
came to
Australia 40,000, 20,000, etc... years ago. In South Africa they natives
where
told that the Africans migrated to South Africa from the North and the
Whites met
them when migrating north wards. In both cases forgetting the normadic
nature of
the people, claiming the land to be vacant, in otherwords "Terra Nullis".
Natives
still fight this in Australia and have challenged this "THEORY" because
there is
no proof.
Further the so called devision of labour is a fact the world over. However,
you do
not know the social and religious implecations of exploitation at all. The
fact is that
there is caste mobility and this has been clear demonstrated in the Vedas,
as
I have mentioned.
Do also let me know what you know about Brahminism and Hinduism ? Do tell us
what your understanding is. I am not put in any difficult situation at all,
I am pleased
to discuss your concerns. Give us examples of the "perversion" you are
talking about.
Regards .....
Mei Ling <mei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3957E1FD...@hotmail.com...
Mei Ling
being not proven and caste system being division of labour.Admittedly,I am no
scholar
to dwell in details.However,common sense prevails.
Common sense tells me that if you were born a Brahmin and remains so for
thousands of years claiming exclusivity to uphold hinduism disallowing any other
indians by caste or otherwise entry into your gods sanctioned exclusivity
,lording
over the lives of other hindus, is evil.When the life of a low caste red-blooded
fellow human being is worth less than a frog or he/she is dismembered for just
peeping at one of your many hindu gods,it is evil.When your upper caste deems
fit
to touch a dog but not a low caste human ,that is evil.When upper caste hindus
deny the lower caste hindu women to cover themselves it is not only evil but
also
pervert.
How on earth did your western educated mind justifies such atrocities?Are you
not insulting felloe indians?Can you sleep peacefully when a low caste hindu
sleep and their dreams are not theirs?
Let me just call a spade just that ,and set aside Aryan invasin theory and
casteism
for the purpose of discussion on this thread which is about perversion.
Meanwhile again for your benefit I reproduce Mr.Farhan Siddiques allegation of
pornography in hindu holy books below.Can you please dispel them?
Qoute,
Subject:
Pornography in Hindu holy book Ramayana
Date:
Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:32:14 GMT
From:
Farhan Siddiqui <siddiqu...@my-deja.com
his article exposes the insatiable sexual apetite that the Aryan Hindu
Gods possessed. This proves that one of the main reasons for
forming the insidious religion of Hinduism or Brahmanism was so that sex
was available freely to the male Brahmins in the name of Vishnu.
As shown in the chapter `Women in Hinduism', the Vedas, Ramayana and
Gita justify treating women as mere fuel for fire and an object for
sexual gratification. As a result, the Ramyana and other `holy' books
seem to have verses that pop up conveniently so that the Gods can
justify perverted secual actions with animals, female relatives, and
other men.
PORNOGRAPHY IN RAMAYANA
Pornography is replete in the Ramayana, especially in the older unedited
versions. The oldest Ramayanas are in fact Buddhist versions,
and they preserve much of the true character of the vicious Rama and his
adulterous wife Sita. Much of this material was later on deleted
by the Brahmin crooks, so one must go to the older Ramayanas in order to
uncover the truth. Thus, Dr. Charles claims that Ramayana
contains much pornographic material and cannot be read in public. He
gives the following examples:
Rama's description of Sita's beauty is lewdly detailed and full of
obscene details (refer to C.R. Srinivasalyengar's translation of Aranya
Kandam - chapter 46).
This shows the truly lecherous nature of Rama, who considered women
as mere sexual objects.
In Kiskind Kandam, the `great' Rama of the `wonderful' religion of
Hinduism explains to Lakshmana in graphic details his sexual
experience with Sita.
This shows that Rama was a pornographer and lecher to boot. Not only
did he seduce Sita, but had to tell the whole world about it !
He viewed marriage simply as a means of fulfilment of base passions.
The intelligence, her virtues and personality do not count.
According to Ramayana, the Aryans (Brahmins) used to drink liquor
(of nine different kinds), eat meat, marry many wives and
prostitution was an accepted way of life amongst the priests and
gods.
This proves that, even during the Ramayanic era of the Brahmanic
Dark Ages, the `noble' Aryan Hindus lived in the manner of the
animals with whom they shared the jungles.
Ramayana also recounts the "story of King Dasharatha who, in order
to have a baby son, made a big sacrifice (yagnam) of sheep,
cattle, horses, birds and snakes. He then delivered his three wives
Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to three priests. These holy
men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies
to the King. By this means, the King was able to have three sons -
Ram, Lakshman and Bharat" (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details
on yagnam, refer to the book "Gnana Surian", published by
Kudi Arasu Press).
This shows the truly cheap nature of Rama's immoral father. He was
willing to prostitute his wives merely in order to gain personal
benefits ! The `great king' Rama's father was merely a lowly pimp
who handed his wives over to whosoever could fulfill his selfish
needs !
The handing over of Rama's mother to the three disciples occurred
after the Vedic horse sacrifice (ashwamedha), in which Rama's
mother copulated with the dead horse in accordance with Vedic Hindu
requirements.
This example shows the truly debauched nature of Rama's whoring
mother. Why did she have to have intercourse with a dead horse
? Would not a living horse do ?
The Ramayan tells us much about the unlawful relationship of incest
(Please refer to Aranya Kandam, chapter 45, verses 122, 123,
124 & 125). Incest is the prime speciality of Hinduism; thus Brahma
had intercourse with his own daughter Sarasvat; and even Sita is,
in the older Buddhist and more authentic versions of the Ramayana,
the sister of Rama.
One may ask, why are such perversions as incest, beastiality prevalent
in Hinduism, and in fact sanctioned in Hindu scriptures ? The
answer is that the Brahmin imposed a strict sense of `brahmacarya'
(ascetism) onto a previously Aryan barbarian society. As a result,
common Aryans could not satisfy their urges in normal and healty manners
and were thus forced to resort to perversions such as incest,
zoophilia, etc.
The following Hindu practices will reveal how immorality and indecency
are sanctified in the name of Hinduism.
LINGAM & YONI
Lingam and Yoni are the male and female sexual organs respectively.
Hindus are allowed to worship anything - including sexual organs. It
is not unknown for them to name their children Shiva Lingam (God Shiva's
sexual organ) or Rama Lingam (God Rama's sexual organ). (In
some places in Karnataka, the gods demand both male and females to pray
naked together.)
This practice is not so much a survival of pre-Brahmanic Saiva religion,
but arose as a means of Brahmins ensuring a constant supply of
lower-caste women to satisfy their lecherous needs. The Brahmins, who
possessed absolute power over all other races, lived a life of
constant debauchery, raping the non-Brahmin women and forcing them into
prostitution.
DEVADASI (RELGIOUS PROSTITUTION)
The Devadasi system was set up, according to a Times of India report
(10-1 1 -87) as a result of a conspiracy between the feudal class
(pseudo-secular word for `Rajputs') and the priests (pseudo-secular word
for `Brahmins'). The latter, with their ideological and religious hold
over the peasants and craftsmen, devised a means that gave prostitution
their religious sanction. Poor, low-caste girls, initally sold at
private auctions, were later dedicated to the temples. They were then
initiated into prostitution.
Thus Devadasism is a system of legalised rape, enforced prostitution and
sexual expoitation of Black Sudra women by
Brahmin men. Moreover, by raping Sudra women the Brahmins could breed a
new mixed race of middle castes which would serve to
divide the Sudras !
BHARAT NATYAM & THE BRAHMINS
The Bharat Natyam is a dance performance which, because of the Brahmin
media, has gained much recognition as a form of art. However,
the origin of this dance lies in the Brahmins abducting low-caste women,
raping them and forcing them to become prostitutes
in order to earn money. As part of the captured womens' training as
`Devadasis', they were required to learn the
Bharatnatyam. The celebrated Bharat Natya expert, Rukmini Devi, admits
in a National Geographic video programme, that the Baratha
Natya was really the art of Devadasis (temple prostitutes) to please
their audience and admirers. This is the reason why you might have
seen various Baratha Natya's postures in Hindu temples. The Bharat Natya
helped the poor low-caste women who had been raped and
incarcarated by the Brahmins, to attract customers and eke out a living.
To top it all, the cunning Brahmins took most of her earnings too !
Maybe like the art of KARATE to the Japanese, the BHARAT NATYAM is a
shameful national art of the Brahmins and very much part of
their culture.
Whilst Sudra women were shamefully exposed to the views of the lecherous
Aryan male, the Brahmin females were locked up in a life of
seclusion ! That is why Sudra women in Kerala were, down to the 20th
century forbidden from wearing bodices or any form of upper
body-garment which the Aryan women were forced to wear. The Sudra women
thus had to appear top-less in order to satisfy the
voyeuristic desires of the ogling Brahmin males !
THE KAMASUTRA
Brahminism has also created Kamasutra -a set of instructions on how to
have sexual intercourse. Some of the postures detailed in
Kamasutra are so complex that they can only be performed with the help
of one or more ASSISTANTS!
The Kamasutra was written in one of the Devadasi temples, those brothels
where Sudra women were forced to a life of prostitution by their
Brahmin captors. It is in these brothel-temples that Sanskrit, that
hybrid mongrel language descended from the Old Indo-Aryan
tribal tongues and the Sudric (Dravidian & Kolarian) languages.
THE DEVADASI SYSTEM THRIVES
UNI. - TIMES OF INDIA - 10th Nov. 1987: confirms that the practice of
dedicating young Harijan girls (Mahars, Mangs, Dowris and
Chambhar) at childhood to a goddess, and their initiation into
prostitution when they attain puberty continues to thrive in Karnataka,
Andhra
Pradesh and other parts of South India. This is largely due to social
backwardness, poverty and illiteracy, according to a study by two
doctors of the India Health Organisation.
The report clearly indicates that the Devadasi system was the result of
a conspiracy between the feudal class and the priests (Brahmins),
who with their ideological and religious hold over the peasants and
craftsmen, devised a practice which acquired religious sanction. They
noted in their study on - "Devadasis - the link between religious
culture and child prostitution".
The study revealed that girls from poor families were sold after puberty
at private auctions to a master who initially paid a sum of money to
the families ranging from Rs. 500 to 5000.
The study, made during health camps organised by the World Health
Organisation (WHO) in the devadasi populated areas, revealed that
the dedicated girls formed 15 percent of the total women involved in
prostitution in the country, and as much as 70 percent to 80 percent of
the prostitutes in the border districts of Karnataka and Maharashtra.
This shows the extent to which the lecherous Brahmins raped and
exploited the Negroid Sudra women of South India.
THE NAKED HINDU YOGIS OF KASHI
Many of the Yogis of Kashi (Banaras) live naked and beg for their
living. They live in dirty, unhygienic conditions, and drug addiction is
rife
among them.
Our so-called leaders and intellectuals have all contributed to the
superstitious beliefs and they have helped these saints to thrive and
practise deceptive methods to cheat the public. It is an utter shame
that among the worshippers of such naked godmen, there are a number
of high court judges, advocates, engineers, doctors, professors,
politicians, cinema actors and actresses.
For more details on these Hindu saints and Yogis, watch the documentary
video - "SHOCKING ASIA" - which is available from the following
addresses: Atlas International Film GMBH, Munich, W. Germany. Replay
Video, London, G. Britain. Distribution First Film Organisation,
Hong Kong.
STARK NAKED BATHS!
AGENCIES News Agency reports on 23-9-87 that at Kurushetra (India) about
1,000 NAKED Hindu "Sadhus" (saints) plunged themselves
into the river during a solar eclipse, claiming this to be a "holy dip".
Over one million pilgrims, naked and semi- naked, both male and
female, also followed them into the river. The largest of the pools is
Brahmasarovar, and is said to accommodate 100,000 bathers at a time.
There was still no room for everyone in the water at one time and there
was much pushing and shoving. The huge crowds waiting on the
banks barely had space to turn around. People crowded the shore waiting
for their chance. This is the position of "holy dip" everywhere in
India. A Haryana Government spokesman said that they posted 20,000
policemen to avoid misuse of this mixing opportunity for perverted
reasons.
The reason why the Brahmins walk naked is that they could more easily
force the lower castes to consume their urine and
dung; the Brahmins could also more easily rape lower-caste women. Thus,
when Brahmins walk along the road, they stop at
intervals in order to relieve themselves, when their disciples
immediately crowd around to obtain a piece of `holy' excrement in order
to
consume it. If a Brahmin decides to copulate with any low-caste woman he
sees, he immediately rapes her in public without any fear of
retribution. These disorders were put down by the British in the bigger
cities, but they continue in the rural countryside.
For those who don't know why the Brahmins forced the Sudras and other
lower castes to consume dung and urine is that by
this means, diseases and ailments would develop among the Sudras. Thus,
the non-Brahmins would suffer from perpetual
diseases and death. In addition, it reminded the Sudras of their
`rightful and correct' place in Hinduism - namely, as the animal slaves
of
the Brahmins. Maybe, even animals were treated better than Sudroids.
In addition to this spectacle, the pilgrims also look directly at the
sun with the naked eye. Scientists and doctors strongly advise against
this
as it is likely to cause blindness.
The reason why the Brahmins encouraged the low-caste people to look at
the Sun is that they desired to blind them into
sightless slavery. Due to Brahmin brainwashing, a large fraction of the
population became blind by staring at the Sun, thereby
becoming further degraded in status and posing no threat to the evil
Brahmanism.
THE MIRACLE MAN
DPA News (6-1 1 -86) reports that Police have arrested a "miracle man"
in the Western India city of Prune for raping a number of women,
on the pretext of solving their troubles, by making them sit naked
before an idol which was supposed to render "divine advice". He would
hold a blank sheet of paper over a fire on which written words would
appear. He would then convince the women to have sex with him on
the strength of the "miracle". Police discovered that his "divine
advance" was nothing but a simple chemical trick by which words written
on
paper with invisible ink became legible when held over a flame.
HOW RISHIS WERE CREATED?
According to the Hindu Holy books, God Brahma arranged the marriage of
god Shiva to goddess Parvathi. When they went around the fire
as per Hindu religious ritual, god Shiva looked at the thighs of goddess
Parvathi and ejaculated his semen into the Fire and they became
Rishis (priests). According to the Hindu Puranas this "god" can do such
a filthy act!
SEX WITH COWS
In many Hindu temples there are sculptures depicting men having sex not
only with women but also cows. What is the meaning of this? Is
not the cow sacred? If it is, then it should be worshipped not sexually
assaulted!
The answer is that the low-caste people were so frustrated because the
Brahmins had abducted all their women as Devadasis that they
had to satisfy their desires with cows. Whilst the Brahmins were busy
raping their women, the Sudra men had to copulate with cows !
RAMAYANA IS THE CULTURE OF ARYANS (BRAHMINS)!
Dr. Charles claims that the Ramayana is nothing but the culture and way
of life of the Aryans (Brahmins) which is still having a great impact
on present day India. According to Ramayana, the Aryans (Brahmins) used
to drink liquor, used to eat meat, used to have many wives, and
prostitution was a way of life to the Rishis (Priests) and even the
gods. This was true to the barbaric Aryan way of life.
The concept of "re-incarnation" or avtar is the bed-rock of the Hindu
belief. Rama, Vishu, Hanuman etc ... are all believed to be avtars. But
according to Hindu scholar Kshiti Mohan Sen, there is nothing in the
Vedas to support this belief! Rather, it is an Aryan / Chinese concept
that may have crept into the Hindu thoughts. This shakes the whole
foundation of Hinduism!
"Hindus accept many incarnations of God. While some Hindus take the
doctrine literally and accept figures like Rama, Krishna, and Buddha
as actual incarnation, others prefer to treat it as a useful myth.
The origin of the concept of avatara is obscure. It cannot be found in
the Vedas, but it is possible that it came from the Aryan settlers in
Iran.
The idea of discontinuous incarnations can be found in the Bahram Yasht,
which forms part of the Zoroastrian corpus, where incarnations
of the deity Verethragna can be seen. According to another theory, the
concept originated in central Asia, as the Bahram Yasht shows
traces of Chinese influence and mythology. In none of these beliefs,
however, does the concept play as important a part as it does in post-
Vedic Hindu thought, particularly that of the epics, Ranayana and
Mahabharata.
And the reason why it forms an integral part of Brahmanism is that it
sanctions the inhuman slavery to Brahmins in Hinduism.
Since the lowe-caste persons had committed sins in their previous lives,
the Brahmins were justly punishing them ! This form of mental
pollution served to further buttress the legalised slavery to Brahmins
that is Hinduism.
HOW HOLY IS THE COW?
The origin of the holiness of the cow in popular Hinduism is not quite
certain. The Aryans loved to eat beef, though they seem to have
admired the cow as a very useful animal. However, now the Hindu even
goes to the extent of drinking the urine of the cow. How come ?
The reason why Hindus drink cow's urine and eat cow-dung is that the
Brahmins have enacted laws which force the
non-Brahmins, especially the Sudroid Blacks, to eat not only cow-dung
and drink cow-urine, but the urine and excreta of
Brahmin males as well. These laws and customs show the abject depth to
which the Brahmins had crushed the non-Brahmins.
So lowly and animal-like was the status of the Sudras that they even had
to consume the urine and dung of their Brahmin
masters ! Nowhere on the face of the earth, not even during the darkest
days of slavery in the US South, or apartheid in South Africa, did
a race of masters inflict a more dehumanising tyranny over a subject
population.
Unquote.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nitin Batra
against non-Brahmin who goes to temple?? where?? what planet are you on??
> to touch a dog but not a low caste human ,that is evil.When upper caste hindus
> deny the lower caste hindu women to cover themselves it is not only evil but
> pervert
What???? You are extremely void of any knowledge of world religions!!!!!
> Meanwhile again for your benefit I reproduce Mr.Farhan Siddiques allegation of
> pornography in hindu holy books below.Can you please dispel them?
No, I will NOT dispel them! There is nothing wrong with sex and
nothing to apologize for!!!!!!
> Rama's description of Sita's beauty is lewdly detailed and full of
> obscene details (refer to C.R. Srinivasalyengar's translation of Aranya
> Kandam - chapter 46).
A woman's love muscles aren't obscene, bub.
> This shows the truly lecherous nature of Rama, who considered women
> as mere sexual objects.
Sita is NOT only mentioned with reference to her body. She's the central
character! She's the Helen.
> In Kiskind Kandam, the `great' Rama of the `wonderful' religion of
> Hinduism explains to Lakshmana in graphic details his sexual
> experience with Sita.
Yes he did.
> This shows that Rama was a pornographer and lecher to boot.
How a lecher?? Lakshman is his brother! Of course he'll share his bliss.
> Not only did he seduce Sita, but had to tell the whole world about it !
Lakshman is his brother!!!!!!!!!! not the whole world. Seduce?!
> The intelligence, her virtues and personality do not count.
How do you figure that??
>
> According to Ramayana, the Aryans (Brahmins) used to drink liquor
> (of nine different kinds), eat meat, marry many wives and
> prostitution was an accepted way of life amongst the priests and
> gods.
>
> This proves that, even during the Ramayanic era of the Brahmanic
> Dark Ages, the `noble' Aryan Hindus lived in the manner of the
> animals with whom they shared the jungles.
nothing noble about ancient times, no. but that's so around the world. the
nostalgia for the ancient is misplaced, wherever you go.
Wine...nine different kinds....polygamy......prostitution.....? You
realize there are people harming, torturing each other out there, wine,
even 9 kinds, polygamy, and prostitution, is not quite as important!!!
brahmacharya was considered terrible, and very very few ever took an oath
of brahmacharya
> Lingam and Yoni are the male and female sexual organs respectively.
> Hindus are allowed to worship anything - including sexual organs.
Yep, lingam is a penis, and yoni is a vagina. sexy.
> Brahmin men raping the non-Brahmin women and forcing them into
> prostitution.
What planet?
FluxWildly
<8iq40l$s74$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>This article exposes the insatiable sexual apetite that the Aryan Hindu
>Gods possessed. This proves that one of the main reasons for
>forming the insidious religion of Hinduism or Brahmanism was so that
>sex was available freely to the male Brahmins in the name of Vishnu. As
>shown in the chapter `Women in Hinduism', the Vedas, Ramayana and Gita
>justify treating women as mere fuel for fire and an object for sexual
>gratification. As a result, the Ramyana and other `holy' books seem to
>have verses that pop up conveniently so that the Gods can justify
>perverted secual actions with animals, female relatives, and other men.
>
>PORNOGRAPHY IN RAMAYANA
Hold it! Time out! Excuse me, but would you please care to explain to me
the Islamic interpretation of heaven? As in the activities that you get to
engage in while in paradise? Eh? Eh?
--
:- Flux