Poems from "NartanaSaala"
M. Vidyasagar
>> Yes it was in Valmiki's ramayana that I came across these descriptions of
>> seeta and I used to get so fed up with them after sometime because they used
>> to repeat so often. If some one just enjoys the lyrical beauty of the words
>> he may not notice this very much but I used to get mad if I came across these
>> comparisons(same with Kalidasa - give him a female character and off he goes
>> on a tangent-these descriptions maybe ok once a while but not everytime you
>> refer to the charcter and that the 'anganga varnana' ). But some of the English
>> translations I read just put me off.
>> Imagine reading everytime you come across Rama or Sita as Rama the xxxxx ,
>> rama the yyyy, rama the .... so on and so forth.The reason is the word/sentence
>> construction in sanskrit and other Indian languages where the 'bahuvriha samasa'actually lends beauty to the word whereas it is not so in English. I sometimes
>> used to imagine someone translating the 'VishnuSahasranamam' into English and
>> amuse myself :-)
>>
>> Gopal
Let me tell a story about a blind man. His friend was trying to tell him
about "milk."
\begin{story}
Blind man: What is milk?
Friend: Milk is a white liquid.
Blind Man: Liquid I know, but what is "white"?
Friend: White is the colour of a swan.
Blind Man: What is a swan?
Friend: A swan is a bird with a crooked neck.
Blind Man: What is "crooked"?
(Friend puts his forearm, elbow and wrist in the form of a swan;
blind man feels it.)
Blind Man: Aaaah, NOW I know what "milk" is.
\end{story}
So what is the point of this story? Merely this: Those who judge
the poetry of Vaalmiki, Kaalidaasa or Tulsidaas on the basis of
English translations know as much about Indian poetry as the blind
man did about milk.
Some netters also don't seem to appreciate the fact that, when it
comes to the variety of adjectives, English is an utterly impoverished
language, even when compared to other European languages, and certainly
so when compared to Sanskrit and its derived languages (e.g., Telugu).
Another point. Have these self-styled critics read other epics of
the same vintage as the Ramayana, e.g., The Iliad or The Odyssey?
In these epics, it is not merely ADJECTIVES that get repeated,
but ENTIRE PASSAGES. This is especially true of The Odyssey.
When Molla writes about Rama:
dhavaLa'bja patra ne'tramula va'du
I appreciate the beauty of the language. But a person who can
understand it only as
Rama whose eyes are like the petals of a white lotus
should not presume to pass judgements about the quality of the poetry.
Finally, Mr. Gopal, it is "bahuvri'hi" not "bahuvriha".
In another article, Sri Bhanu writes:
>> Pandava vanavasam lo padyalu chooste, NARTANASALA lo vi gurtu vachayi.
>> evarikaina gurtuunte post cheyyavalasinadiga korutunnanu.
>>
>> "enungu nekki..." padyam especially.
Glad to oblige. In the absence of my trusty "Sabda ratna'karamu"
I don't vouch for the accuracy of the translations.
[Note that the order of the poems is changed in the movie from what it
is in tikkana's text. In the text, FIRST uttara gets frightened
and runs away, and LATER, when he and arjuna return to the battlefield,
arjuna points out to him the various warriors in the kaurava camp.
The order below follows the movie.]
(arjuna to uttara: pointing out the various warriors on the other side.)
[seesa padyam]
ka'nchana maya ve'dika' kanatketano'jvala vibhramamu va'Du kalaSajunDu
[This refers to dro'Na who was born in a "kalaSam". ka'chana maya
ve'dika means "gold-studded platform". I can't reliably translate
the rest.]
simha la'ngoola bhooshita nabho'bha'ga ke'tu pre'nkhaNamu va'Du dro'Na sutuDu
[The one whose "lion's tail" pennant decorates the sky is the son of dro'Na.]
kanaka go'vRsha sa'ndra ka'nti parisphuTa dhwaja samulla'sambu va'Du kRpuDu
[The one whose pennant glows with the golden cow and bull (?? not sure)
is kRpa'cha'rya.]
lalita kambu prabha' kalita pata'ka' viha'rambu va'Du ra'dha'tmajunDu
[Quite clueless about this one, other than that "kambu" means a conch
shell. The line refers to karNa, son of ra'dha.]
(te'Ta geetam)
maNi mayo'raga ruchi ja'la mahitamaina
paDaga va'Du kurukshitipati ...
[The one with the jem-studded hooded serpent is duryo'dhana.]
..... maho'gra
Sikhara ghana ta'La taruvagu siDamu va'Du
sura nadi' soonuDe'rpaDa joochikonumu
[The one with a palm tree as big as a large mountain peak is bhi'shma.]
Next, uttara gets scared.
[utpala ma'la]
kaurava se'na jooDa vaDakandoDagen madi tho'Da menu, nee ..
vooraka po'vuchunTividi yoppune, ippaTi bhangi joochinan
veerala ne'nu ma'rkonami niSchayam aTlaguTan rayambunan
te'ru maralpu pra'Namulu teepana munvinave' bRhannala' bRhannala'
[My body and mind tremble at the sight of the kaurava army.
Is it fair for you to keep going (straight ahead)?
The way things are, it is certain that I will not engage them in battle.
That being so, quickly turn the chariot around, bRhannala!]
After arjuna reveals himself to uttara, they return to the battlefield.
arjuna "cuts off" duryo'dhana and taunts him that fighting him (arjuna)
is a lot harder than beating his brother at dice.
[seesa padyam]
e'nungu nekki pekke'nungu lirugaDa ra' bura veedhula gra'lagalade ?
[(Do you think it is like) going about on the town streets
on an elephant, with several other elephants on either side?]
maNimayambaina bhooshaNa ja'alamula noppi yoDDo'ragambula nunDagalade ?
[(Do you think it is like) wearing jem-studded ornaments and going to
your court?]
karpoora chandana kastoori ka'dula nimpu sompa'ra bho'gimpa galade ?
[(Do you think it is like) adorning yourself with camphor, sandalwood
and musk?]
athi mano'haralagu chatura'nganala to'Da sangati ve'Dkalu salupa galade ?
[(Do you think it is like) frolicing with very beautiful and clever women?]
[t'eTa geetam]
kayyamuna no'Di po'yina kauravendra'
nilumu na' budhdhi veeDi ee tanuvu viDichi
sugati baDayumu tollinTa choora galade ?
joodamikkaDa na'Danga ra'du summu
[If you are beaten by me, you will go to heaven, but you cannot go back
to your former abode. Here you cannot play dice!]
SAIRAJU TALLAVARJULA
>
>[seesa padyam]
>
>ka'nchana maya ve'dika' kanatketano'jvala vibhramamu va'Du kalaSajunDu
Yenthayu unnatamagu matalu vrasedu mee boTi satsaangathyamu
iinADu net lo labhinchuchunnadulaku santasmau galuga, namaskarinchu
vada.
Narthana saala loni padyamulu, bahu madhuramulu.
Inka yemaina Tikkana padyamulu chakkana cheppa radha?
ii krindi padyamu gyapakamunte tappaka vrayandi.
`AaDi tappani maa yamma abhimathaana
Satya merigina vyaasuni shasanaana
Padathiki iishvardosagina vara balaana ...
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Singular integral equations, and phase-space local minima are my guests
while I crunch many a night on my beloved terminal.
Hang 3S007' (oops! its upside down.) stallav_
Jagannath Mallela
Does anyone have the song list of the movie "Narthanasaala"?
If so please post it to my e-mail.
Thanks in anticipation.
Jagannath
--
#######################The Invincible 1#############################|
cv...@crayx.mcsr.olemiss.edu (Jagannath Mallela) |
####################################################################|
Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma
+(te'Ta geetam)
+
+maNi mayo'raga ruchi ja'la mahitamaina
+paDaga va'Du kurukshitipati ...
kuru_kshiti_pati ? can someone explain the meaning of this
compound word ? BTW, shouldnt that word paDaga mean the canopy of
the chariot, vidyaasaagar gaaru ? Which in the movie is exactly like
a naagupaamu paDaga, with a pinChham :-)
2. tyaaga_raaja is also known as tyaagayya.
So, is there a possibility that potana is a "commonized"
version of potaraaju - or that "raaju" is a suffix to connote
our respect for his greatnes...
---
Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
Bapa Rao
|> 2. tyaaga_raaja is also known as tyaagayya.
|> So, is there a possibility that potana is a "commonized"
|> version of potaraaju - or that "raaju" is a suffix to connote
|> our respect for his greatnes...
Interesting sub-discussion about classic Telugu names which started
with the name of (Bammera) Pothanna, a.k.a. Potharaju (BTW, Is the more modern
name "Pothuraju" a variant of the same?)
Is it generally true that, apart from the stem or Dhatu part of the name
(e.g. "Potha") which is fixed, the suffix can vary considerably for the
same individual, depending on the circumstances? Considering the name
of the writer of the Bhagavatam, we could have, conceivably:
Pothanna
Potharaju
Pothaamaathyudu (Perhaps it should be Pothanaamaathyudu, which would be a
Sanskrit samaasam and not really count for our purpose)
Pothaapraggada
PothaRayudu, PothaRao
Pothadu
Pothigaadu
Pothulu
etc., all for the same individual at different times.
Incidentally Pothaapragada and Pothanna both seem to violate the rules
for tne prescribed nominative case endings for Telugu (du, mu, vu, lu).
Is this yet another instance of the classic 19th Century Telugu grammars not
accurately describing (and instead, prescribing) Telugu usage or is there
some other explanation?
Other questions:
* What is the etymology of the proper noun "Potha-<suffix>?" I am speculating
that it is the same as the Telugu common noun "pothu", male animal.
* On the common Telugu suffix "Rao": When did this usage come into vogue?
It seems as though this suffix was not in vogue prior to the second half
of the 19th century.
Was Gurazaada Appa Rao one of the early Telugu "Rao"s?
It seems likely that Rao" became fashionable by way of Telugu princes
and Zamindars adopting the titles of the neighboring Maharashtrian and
Muslim aristocracies.
* When and how did "gaaru" become an honorific suffix to Telugu names?
Was it around the same time as "gaadu" becoming a diminuitive suffix? :-)
Clearly "gaaru" has similar-sounding cousins in both Tamil and Kannada
(The -ar, -gaL, -gaLu endings). Inasmuch as gaaru is not native to
Telangana, perhaps the usage has something to do with the legacy of
Vijayanagar?
Obviously, these must be trivial questions with definitive answers. Can
some of our resident scholars pick up the thread and regale us with
some Telugu etymology into the bargain?
K.V. Bapa Rao
My personal opinions.
Vidyasankar Sundaresan
-
- It seems likely that Rao" became fashionable by way of Telugu princes
- and Zamindars adopting the titles of the neighboring Maharashtrian and
- Muslim aristocracies.
- ^^^^^^
Muslim aristocracies do not have anything to do with Rao.
The word Rao seems to have evolved from "Raya". All Vijaynagar kings seem
to have had this as part of their names. "Raya" itself is probably a
variation of the Sanskrit raja, coming from the stem word Rag~na. Rao is a
popular surname among Kannada, Telugu and Marathi speaking people. It is
not seem among Tamilians though.
Another name used all over the south is Nayak and its variations, Naik,
Naicker etc. This is from Nayaka meaning leader (ya: nayati sa: naayaka:).
S.Vidyasankar
MALLIDI SATYANARAY
> In article <1vt215$9...@acsc.com> bap...@hill.acsc.com (Bapa Rao) writes:
> -
> - It seems likely that Rao" became fashionable by way of Telugu princes
> - and Zamindars adopting the titles of the neighboring Maharashtrian and
> - Muslim aristocracies.
> - ^^^^^^
>
> Muslim aristocracies do not have anything to do with Rao.
>
> The word Rao seems to have evolved from "Raya". All Vijaynagar kings seem
> to have had this as part of their names. "Raya" itself is probably a
> variation of the Sanskrit raja, coming from the stem word Rag~na. Rao is a
right. the root word rajan (or rajaa - pradhamavibhakti in Sanskrit) has
taken several forms - ray/roy (in English; Bengali surname), rao
(Maharashtra, in the south - a title, not usually a surname).
The letters 'y' and 'j' are used interchangeably between Sanskrit and
other lanaguages. e.g. yogi/jogi (Bengali/Telugu), yagnamu/jannamu
(Telugu), Jesus/Yesu (most of the Indian languages) etc.
Sankskirt does not distiguish between 'va' and 'ba'. But to my
knowledge it treats 'ja' and 'ya' differently.
> popular surname among Kannada, Telugu and Marathi speaking people. It is
> not seem among Tamilians though.
>
> Another name used all over the south is Nayak and its variations, Naik,
> Naicker etc. This is from Nayaka meaning leader (ya: nayati sa: naayaka:).
>
> S.Vidyasankar
--
*************************************************************************
Reddy Mallidi.
(all openions are mine)
*************************************************************************
Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma
+ bap...@hill.acsc.com (Bapa Rao) writes:
+ -
+ - It seems likely that Rao" became fashionable by way of Telugu princes
+ - and Zamindars adopting the titles of the neighboring Maharashtrian and
+ The word Rao seems to have evolved from "Raya". All Vijaynagar kings seem
+ to have had this as part of their names. "Raya" itself is probably a
+ variation of the Sanskrit raja, coming from the stem word Rag~na. Rao is a
+ popular surname among Kannada, Telugu and Marathi speaking people. It is
+ not seem among Tamilians though.
I heard this :- "raaya" and "raayuDu" were unique to raayalaseema
and many parts of andhra, with some usage by kannaDa people also.
Like Bapa Rao gaaru writes, I also heard that "raa_u" (no "vu" added - telugu
style) is of mahaaraashTra origin.
Avoiding the mistake I made of believing what someone told me about
pt. ravi Sankar, I make it clear that this is something I heard too. Please
dont give much weight to it...
+ Another name used all over the south is Nayak and its variations, Naik,
+ Naicker etc. This is from Nayaka meaning leader (ya: nayati sa: naayaka:).
naayak and its variants are for people whose male ancestors were
paaramparii_kamgaa naayak_s in the kings' armies. And later in the
early british armies.
Am I right in saying the following ...
age old telugu names/suffixes : rayuDu, raaju, Sastri, _anna, moorti, _daasu,
not so new names (400 yrs?) : raavu, choudhary, pantulu,
very very new :-) : nehru, gandhi, bose, stalin, trotsky, lenin, ...
The bengalis have spawned a new army of anglicised names (like banerjee etc).
How about a list of such telugu names ? (sen)
---
Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
Just Heard NTR is visiting TANA, and that there is a $150 lunch ticket
to have lunch with him... Any NTR fans interested ? Dont ask me, I know
nothing more...
Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma
+Incidentally Pothaapragada and Pothanna both seem to violate the rules
+for tne prescribed nominative case endings for Telugu (du, mu, vu, lu).
+Is this yet another instance of the classic 19th Century Telugu grammars not
+accurately describing (and instead, prescribing) Telugu usage or is there
+some other explanation?
This was my doubt in the orignal post . is _ana suffix a commoner's
way of referring to someone or really a part of the name. Given your
own list of "pOta**" variations, it must be the former possibility.
Then, we NOT only have _du, _lu, etc., but also _ana.... suffixes.
(Then how does pOt_ana_amaatyuDu get explained?)
In the same breath, how come the ladies didnt have much of a choice ?
Its either _akka or _amma suffxes. Even annamaachaaryaa's wife was
something_akka -- ofcourse, the husband censored the _akka part when
calling his wife... :-) I guess :-)
Wren't _devi suffixes observed only among the kings and ruling elite ?
+* When and how did "gaaru" become an honorific suffix to Telugu names?
+ Was it around the same time as "gaadu" becoming a diminuitive suffix? :-)
+ Clearly "gaaru" has similar-sounding cousins in both Tamil and Kannada
+ (The -ar, -gaL, -gaLu endings). Inasmuch as gaaru is not native to
+ Telangana, perhaps the usage has something to do with the legacy of
+ Vijayanagar?
I am very interested in knowing the answer to this wonderful question by
"rao gaaru" :-)
BTW, can we say, that today, gaaru has completely lost its gender and
elite-status in society. And if what my ears pick out is not background noise
then I am being called "meeru/gaaru" by people who are not exact.ly of
my age :-(
I think its a good sign that "gaaru" has lost all its restrictions for use.
I feel so comfortable to "gaaru" so,meone, about whom I know nothing about.
---
Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
P.S : Let me dust my "History of South India " by Sri neelakaNTha Sastri
I will have to look for it. So ..... hope ...kt gaaru will
not beat me to it. :-)
PVR Narasimha Rao
In article <1vt215$9...@acsc.com>, bap...@hill.acsc.com (Bapa Rao) writes:
:) * What is the etymology of the proper noun "Potha-<suffix>?" I am speculating
:) that it is the same as the Telugu common noun "pothu", male animal.
Oh, no. The word `poetu' (using rit transliteration) is not a
Sanskrit word, whereas `poeta' IS a perfect Sanskrit word. The two
are totally different.
The word `poeta' means `teppa' (a boat/mini-boat). I can in fact
recollect a Sanskrit poem that has this word in it. It is the first
sloka of Sankaracharya's ``nRsimha karaavalamba stoetram''
(human-lion gimme-a-hand hymn :)).
Sreemat_payoe nidhi nikEtana! chakrapaaNE!
bhoegeendra bhoega maNiraajita! puNyamoortE!
yoegeeSa! SASwata! SaraNya! bhavaabdhi poeta!
~~~~~
lakshmee nRsimha! mama dEhi karaavalambam!
(Glossary: payoe nidhi = ocean, x nikEtana = one who has x as home,
bhavaabdhi = sansaara saagaramu, last line = O Lakshmi
Nrisimha! gimme your hand as support.)
[bhavaabdhi poeta means "oe sansaara saagaraanni daaTinchE teppaa!"]
``nRsimha karaavalamba stoetram'' is a fine piece of devotional
writing. Actually, it's a great piece of work even for its lyrical
beauty, poetic value and philosophical content. A masterpiece by
Sankara....
Sankara has a freaky control over the fluency (both in terms of
meaning and sound-wise) of his shlokas. Look at this one (esp the
really beautiful second line):
sansaara saagara viSaala karaaLa kaala
nakra_graha_grasana nigraha vigrahasya
magnasya raaga lasadoormi nipeeDitasya
lakshmee....
(Glossary: nakramu = mosali, grahamu = paTTu, grasanamu = namalaDam,
lasat + oormi = merisE ala)
(Meaning : sansaara saagaramloe nallani mosali gaTTigaa paTTukoni
namilinaTlu naaSanamaina `nigraham' (self-control) gala
vigraham/moorti/physical existence gala, munigipoeyina,
sansaara bandhaalanE merisE alatoe baadhinchabaDina naaku
aasaraa nivvu, O Lakshmi Nrisimha!)
The story behind this set of slokas is this:
Sankara defeated a scholar (Dindima Bhattu???) in a debate and that
guy had to become a slave/disciple of Sankara. His wife (Ubhaya
Bharati?) wanted to have a Shastric debate with Sankara in order to
win her hubby back. Sankara won the debate again, but UB wanted to
have a debate in Kama Sastra too. Sankara wanted to get his fundas
in Kama Sastra straight through some practice, as he had been in
celibacy throughout his life. He asked for a month or so and entered
the body of a king thru `para kaaya pravESam' after leaving his body
in a cave in the custody of trusted disciples. He was generally
freaking out there, picking up some Kama Shastra from the queen.
Meanwhile some goodal took place and his actual body was set to fire
(with his disciples being helpless). Sankara, realizing this, went
running to the chiti and read these shlokas to Narasimha. His body
was restored and, if you are interested in the end of the story,
Sankara won the debate -- being as sharp as he was, he picked up
enough Kama Sastra to humble UB even in that!
In the slokas, actuallu there is stuff about his body being
burnt/cut/... (though using similes) and asking Narasimha to save.
Some parts of the slokas:
sansaara sarpa ghana vaktra bhayoegra teevra
danshTraa karaaLa visha dagdha vinashTa moortE:
......
(Glossary: vaktramu = noeru, danshTramu = koera)
(Meaning : ee prapanchamu aneDi paamu yokka noeTiloeni bhayamunu
golipeDi, ugramaina, teevramaina koeralaloeni strong
vishamu valana kaali poeyina Sareeramu gala naaku....)
sansaara daava dahanaatura bheekaroegra
jwaalaavaLeebhi_rabhidagdha tanooruhasya
......
(Meaning : sansaaramaneDi aDaviloe kaalchi vEyaalanE aatrutatoe
unna bhayankaramaina, ugramaina manTalatoe kaalchi vEya
baDina Saereramu gala naaku....)
sansaara jaala patitasya jagannivaasa
sarvEndriyaartha baDiSastha jhashoepamasya
proetkhanDita_prachura taaluka mastakasya
......
(Glossary: baDiSamu = gaalam (gaelam), jhashamu = chEpa,
proetkhanDita = pra + ut + khanDita)
(Meaning : sansaaramaneDi valaloe chikkukunna, gaalamloe chikkukunna
chEpavale nunna, trenchivEya baDina naaluka, tala gala
vaaDanaina naaku....)
sansaara bheekara kareendra karaabhighaata
nishpeeDyamaana vapusha_ssakalaarti naaSa
praaNa prayaaNa bhava bheeti samaakulasya
......
(Glossary: kari = Enugu, vapuvu = Sareeramu)
(Meaning : sansaaramaneDi bhayankaramaina Enugu kaaLlatoe moedagaa
peeDincha baDina Sareeramu galigina, praaNamu
poetundEmoe anE bhayamutoe worry autunna naaku, O anni
baadhalanu poegoTTE vaaDaa,....)
In one of the slokas, there is this:
"yan_maayayaarjita vapu:....." which means "maaya dwaaraa sampaadin-
china Sareeramu.....".
Anyway, bye for now.
PVR