Parvatiparameswara!
Murthy Gandikota
(a write-up on a village is deleted to please the post news program ;-) Do
you know how those villagers speaking Sanskrit full-time make a living in
this modern world? Are they successful and self-sufficient? Or is it just a
hobby?)
>Because it is understood properly by so few people today, such
>misinterpretations are made. Sanskrit is not extinct because of its
>inconsistencies. The inconsistency lies in the meanings given to Sanskrit
>words by people who do not understand the language.
> Some who do understand the language, take advantage of the general
>ignorance of Sanskrit to suit
>their own interests. In most of these cases, such misinterpretations are
>made to satisfy some obscure twisted meaning which someone wants to
>establish. There are quite a few such examples that I am personally aware
>of, but will not go into here.
>S.Vidyasankar
The above write-up does corroborate what you are saying :-) I meant to
say Sanskrit is in less use. Probably the word `extinct' resonated
with "extinct like dinosaurs" (no they aren't; look around at all the
birds, reptiles, and movie theaters :-).
As for Sanskrit's inconsistency, again in my current state of
ignorance, I can only say based on my experience. For instance,
take the following excerpts from "Syamala Dandakam" (I believe it is
written in Sanskrit by Kalidasa):
"..kamalila dhanusanni babhrullatao pushpa ..."
"..lavanya gandasthala nyastha kasturi ka patra rekha samudbhuta sourabhya
sambranta brunganga na gita sandri bhavanmandra tantrisvare bhasware
susware valla ki vadana prakriya lola tali dala badda tatanka bhusha.."
"..sweda bindulla satphala lavanya nishyanda sandoha sandeha krunnasike .."
They excite my libido at some level, while I am pretty sure Shyamala dandakam
was a serious chant.(Look at its ending that goes as:
sarva mantratmike
sarva tantratmike
sarva chakratmike
sarva tatvatmike
sarva yogatmike
sarva varnatmike
sarva sarvatmake
sarva rupe jaganmatruke
he, jaganmatruke
pahimam, pahimam, pahimam,
devi tubhyam namo devi
tubhyam namo devi
tubhyam nama ha)
IMHO, Kalidasa (or whoever wrote it) started out with a romantic poem to
describe a mythical goddess who was incredibly sexy to him (could be his
girl friend or lost love). But ended up equating her with an omni-potent
and omni-scient goddess.
(Compare this with the Sivaranjani song where the writer started out
describing the sivaranjani raga but ended up equating it with a girl
by that name).
Anyway, I could be woefully wrong. But I enjoy the dandakam very much.
And it is the last remnant of my Sanskrit knowledge, other than
perhaps a little bit of mantra pushpam (especially the chants:
rajadhi rajaya prasastya sahine; namo vayam visravanaya kurmahe; same
kama kaman kama kamaya mahymam; kameswaro vysravanaya kurmahe; om tat
brahma; om tat agni; om tat vayuhu; om tat atma; om tatpuronnamaha...;
except for my errors, it is very rhythmic and song-like).
murthy
--
Murthy Gandikota (908) 582-5860
Rm. 6H-514 , Building 6, P.O.Box 636
Mountain Avenue
Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636, USA
Vidyasankar Sundaresan
(Murthy Gandikota) writes:
- IMHO, Kalidasa (or whoever wrote it) started out with a romantic poem to
- describe a mythical goddess who was incredibly sexy to him (could be his
- girl friend or lost love). But ended up equating her with an omni-potent
- and omni-scient goddess.
-
That is standard practice, I should suppose. Take
chaturbhujE chandrakalAvatamsE kuchOnnatE kumkumarAgasONE
puNdrEkshu pASAnkuSa pushpabANa hastE namastE jagadEka mAta: .
There is some sexually explicit description in the first line, but then
the very next line ends with a salutation to the World Mother.
- (Compare this with the Sivaranjani song where the writer started out
- describing the sivaranjani raga but ended up equating it with a girl
- by that name).
-
In a similar vein, this could just be poetic licence. Such things are in
general possible with any language.
S.Vidyasankar
sur...@yesac.columbiasc.ncr.com
>
> I will try to decipher this (May not be the exact translation)
> chaturbhujE chandrakalAvatamsE kuchOnnatE kumkumarAgasONE
> >puNdrEkshu pASAnkuSa pushpabANa hastE namastE jagadEka mAta: .
>
> ChandraKalaVatamse the one whose face is as bright as the moon
> kuchonnate the one with great breasts
(You missed "kumkuma raaga SoNE" I think this means
The nipples with "kumkuma" colour)
A similar comparision can be seen in the VenkatESwara SuprabhaTam
Kamala kucha choochuka kumkumaTo
niyaTaaruNiTaaTulaneelaTano
( niyaTa (+) aruNiTa (+) aTula (uncomparable) neela Tano)
Our telugu poets were no less:
I remember reading a padya, written by "Naachana" (or is it "paalkooriki"),
where he described the Godess saraswathi. The explanation for that padya
goes like this:
The breasts of saraswathi are so big and so close that
even a thinnest layer of "Taamara Tooda" can not be inserted
between her breasts.
(I dont remember the poem. But I remember a phrase something like
"krikkirisina channulu".)
vijaya vilaasamu (by 'chEmakoora venkata kavi' I think ) is
supposed to be a total "porno". All our prabandhas full of
"SRngaara and sambhoga varnanaas".
What surprises me is that, even pothana's descriptions
in the most revered Bhagavatha, also have unnecessary
references erotic parts of the Goddess' body.
For example:
When Vishnu takes the "MathyavaTaara", he meets
the great Rshi, "SatyavraTa", After realizing that
it is Sree mahaa vishnu, satyavraTa expresses his
surprise with the following padya:
Sri lalanaa kucha vEdikaa
kELI para TanTra buDDi kreedinchu sreehari
...
ELaa maTsyammu vaiTivi
Let me do my poor translation:
Oh! Srihari, why did you - who always spends playing
with (or on the stage of) SriLaxmi's breasts - take
the form of "maTsya".
What a way to ask why he left vaikunta and came to the earth ?
What a way to speak with 'The God' he every day prays ?
Why the un-necessary, reference to SriLaxmi's breasts ?
Regards,
Suresh.
--
Suresh Kolichala (OFF): (803)-926-5528
NCR Corp., MCPD,E&M-Columbia sur...@yesac.columbiaSC.NCR.COM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
Barry LePatner
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Murthy Gandikota
> What a way to ask why he left vaikunta and came to the earth ?
> What a way to speak with 'The God' he every day prays ?
> Why the un-necessary, reference to SriLaxmi's breasts ?
>
Thanks for sharing the tidbits. Here's one (incidentally, too many
postings for me today) by Ramadas in a kirtana:
prakkanu cheri
(lying next to Rama)
chekkili nimuruchu
(fondling with his cheek)
chakkaga marukeli
(probably suggesting foreplay)
trokku undedi vela
nanu brova mani cheppave seetamma talli
(ask him to help me, O Sita)
[an add-on I once made-up was:
kolanulo braki
(slipping into a lake)
padmala kanadamulato
(using lotus stems)
chakkaga sarasamu
(suggesting a foreplay)
adu undedi vela
(while doing the above)
....
I think the most philosophical tone for this song was rendered by Ghantasala
in "Andala Ramudu" for a song written by ____?
nanu brova mani cheppave seetamma talli...
pulini chuste puli ennadu adaradu
(a tiger is not afraid of another tiger)
meka vaste meka ennadu adaradu
(a goat is unafraid of another goat)
maya roga mademo gani
(what a strange disease)
manishi manishiki kudaradu
(two humans can't get along well)
(enduko telusa swami)
(do you know why?)
unnadi potundemo anna beduruto
(fear of losing possessions)
anukunnadi kademonanna aduruto
(fear of expectations going wrong)
kottu kuntu tittu kuntu
(in a brawl here we go)
konda kege vallamu
(to your hill)
nee anda kore vallamu...
(praying for your support)
I guess the difference is, the ANR character in the movie was not as
desperate as the real Ramadas to solve his problems. The shrewd bhakta
in his song to Sita was suggesting that the recommendation to Rama to
alleviate his plight should be made at an opportune moment. I would
hazard a guess that Rama wouldn't care for the movie song writer's
philasophical view of what's wrong with HIS world ("uh, one more
critic, let's hit the sack Sita"). Probably this is why the movie
bombed. In any case, the original song by Ramadas was far more
romantic and definitely wicked. The movie song writer, it seems,
didn't get much kick from the drink when he finished writing his song,
in retospect.
I wouldn't take myself seriously so, :-)
Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma
I may never be able to explain the following comment of suresh
gaaru...
+ When Vishnu takes the "MathyavaTaara", he meets
+ the great Rshi, "SatyavraTa", After realizing that
+ it is Sree mahaa vishnu, satyavraTa expresses his
+ surprise with the following padya:
+
+ Sri lalanaa kucha vEdikaa
+ kELI para TanTra buDDi kreedinchu sreehari
+ ...
+ ELaa maTsyammu vaiTivi
+
+
+
+ Let me do my poor translation:
+
+ Oh! Srihari, why did you - who always spends playing
+ with (or on the stage of) SriLaxmi's breasts - take
+ the form of "maTsya".
+
+
+ What a way to ask why he left vaikunta and came to the earth ?
+ What a way to speak with 'The God' he every day prays ?
+ Why the un-necessary, reference to SriLaxmi's breasts ?
but, it is well known that daivaagraham :-) was known "to be possible"
in many forms. The anglicised historians of today, will tell you that
bhakti was born during the peak of sufism in North India. And that prior
to that was yaagamulu and ritualistic religion, and nothing more.
But, that is not true. Since yore, the rishulu pondered over the right
kind of relationship with the paramaatma -- elaa bhaavinchaali, paramaatmani ?
Note this is different from "Ela vunTaaDu paramaatma" which is what
aadi Sankaraa railed against...
Recalling the season of samasyaa_poorNaalu we had, ramabhadra think
came up with one in which Siva goes to vishNu for xxxxx, which we argued
as "dEvuDu elaa kaavalani anukunTE, alaa kanipistaaDu" ... :-)
This is the essense of what I am struggling to say...
The last millenium (last 1000 yrs) saw the rise in POPULARITY (not invention)
of the geet-gOvinda/meerabai kind of saadhana -- this is symbolized
by the bRndaavanam scenes -- kRshna is the only male there and everyone
else is a female. i.e., even human "males" "VIEW" themselves as females
wanting to join with the supreme male. This is perhaps known to many.
But what is not quite well known is the attitude of "paramaatma being
female" and you (read all those famous males of the past) are her lover.
This was the most popular sidhdhaantam since the ancient times.
This was considered BETTER than the talli-biDDa or any other male
female relationship, as supposedly, (I am at present not qualified
enough to comment -- so, dont bug me about this) lovers come closer than
in any other male-female relationship...
(Maybe in light of the above, "aagraham" in daivaagraham isnt right --
dEvuDi_vaddaki_chEraTam is what I was aiming at)...
In article AA1...@deepthought.cs.utexas.edu, sur...@yesac.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM () writes:
+(You missed "kumkuma raaga SoNE" I think this means
+ The nipples with "kumkuma" colour)
+
+
+A similar comparision can be seen in the VenkatESwara SuprabhaTam
+
+ Kamala kucha choochuka kumkumaTo
+ niyaTaaruNiTaaTulaneelaTano
+ ( niyaTa (+) aruNiTa (+) aTula (uncomparable) neela Tano)
I am curious to know of any padyaalu that go beyond just plain
description, and talk about "EkamavaTam" which should go a long
way to substantiating the above stuff I am sploshing on the net...
---
Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
P.S : Other forms of bhaavanalu are : yOgam, nirguNa paramaatmuni kOsam
secular/asexual diiksha, ... etc... Maybe we oughta add charaka
in here too ?
P.S 2 : tyaagaraaju and raamdaasu, were pioneers in another new format of
addressing the lord. raamadasu called raamuDu his tanDri. tyaagaraaju
called raama his sahOdaruDu and sometimes (?) his tanDri too...
P.S 3 : Fill this up yourself...
Kuram T Narayana
>
>but, it is well known that daivaagraham :-) was known "to be possible"
>in many forms. The anglicised historians of today, will tell you that
>bhakti was born during the peak of sufism in North India. And that prior
>to that was yaagamulu and ritualistic religion, and nothing more.
>
This is actually a wrong perspective to take. Baagavatism traces its
origin to Rg VEda. The puraaNas were composed between 500 B.C. and
500 A.D. Any one who reads mEghasandESa and Saakuntalam comes out
with the view that the similes reflected therein are a result of the
allowed metaphysics. The puraaNic element, being Baagavatist, allowed
for worship of the lord by identifying oneself with the lord. The
female was elevated in all her beauty, and more specifically Baagavatism
elevated Laxmi, the female to a higher level than the Shakti cults had done.
While this worship of female form and erotica existed for a long
time, it reached the crescendo during the time of Vallabha caarya
who converted KrishnadEvaraaya to Vaishnavism. Actually, most of
the Vaishnavite temples (including SriRangam) had either been
renovated or new gOpurams were constructed during Krishna Raayaa's
time.
Vallabha's contention is that god is to be enjoyed in all his divinity.
Since the devotional gOpikas were enthralled by the presence of Krishna,
and the gOpikas were there for the enjoyment of Krishna, and what Krishna
enjoys identifies itself with him, Vallabha argued that every man should
reach a state in which he assumes the form of gOpika for the enjoyment of
Krishna.
That is why female form is revered, because it pleases the lord. If one
looks at the HarE Krishna people, one gets the view that the HarE Krishnas
are an extension of Vallabha's approaches.
Actually, no historian of any merit ever claims that the Bhakthi movemnt
of Hindu thought has anything to do with Islam (or sufis) or even
Christianity. It is intrinsically aryan (with dravidian elements roped in)
and existed even in those times in which yajnaas and yaagaas were
the basic form of worship. Indeed, the YajurvEda mentions that as
part of the AswamEdha yajna ritual of a few weeks (I think it is
two weeks), the yajnakartaa has to perform Bhaarata paaraayaNam in
the evenings. This is a kratuvu during that time. The Bhaarata of the
YajurvEda (and mentioned in YajurvEda) is different from the later
compiled and enlarged versions of today. I read this aspect in the
MaxMuller translations of the Upanishads (possibly candoghya?).
So to that extent, it is totally untrue that Bhakthi system of Hinduism
is borrowed from any other religion.
>Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
...kt
C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering
[..]
>Actually, no historian of any merit ever claims that the Bhakthi movemnt
>of Hindu thought has anything to do with Islam (or sufis) or even
>Christianity. It is intrinsically aryan (with dravidian elements roped in)
I would say it is intrinsically dravidian. :-)
>...kt
-Selva