Conversational Telugu : What does it Say about Us as Telugu People??
TeluguGuy
any comments on this topic from you folks.
Before I go ahead and write my thoughts on this topic, I would like to
say a little about myself, just so you know What I am trying to say,
and how I came about thinking this way. I believe that will put things
in perspective.
I am a 24 year old male living in US. I originally came here when I
was almost 18 to do my Bachelor's degree. During my 4 years in
college, I never really had any Indian friends, let alone any Telugu
friends. My telugu conversations are limited to occassional calls back
home. After college, I met some of my high school friends from back
home who came here on H1. I spent a lot of time with them over a
period of 5 months this past year. They are all gone now. And I havent
gone back home since I came here. I usually speak Telugu only with
people that I know very well, say my high school friends from back
home(HS Friends). If I meet some new Telugu person, I usually prefer
to chat in english. That is because my Telugu sounds very rude ( so I
have been told my HS Friends, I know it sounds rude too ), and it is
very rusty, and often I can not say what I want to say. I have to
force myself to think in Telugu, and it is hard.. but Trust me I am
working on it, and I am actually getting better. While in college, I
had a lot of friends from Nepal, and I used to hang out with them a
lot, and I was exposed to their language a lot. They always talk in
Nepali to each other, never in English, SO I was forced to learn some
of their words.
Now that we gotten that background info done.. sigh!! I would like to
get back to the topic. Are you still interested in reading further?? I
hope so!! However, if after reading upto this point, If you consider
me to be someone who pretends to have forgotten his roots, and his
language, and only wants to speak in English.. ( Do they have a name
for them, I would like to know??), I am sorry to disappoint you, you
have the wrong person.
Finally to the topic!!
Conversational Telugu : What does it Say about Us as Telugu People??
Let us consider Greetings : (Pardon my Transliteration)
baagunnara? namaste! they sound too formal and not sensitive. This way
of greeting might be good for lets say if you are just greeting
someone like your uncle, stranger, elders, or maybe even some friends.
Lets say some one wants to greet their wife, girlfriend, or even a
close friend, or mother, or someone very close --- How would You
express yourself in that situation. I know Kissing is not part of our
culture. So that is out of the question, maybe some hugging is
allowed??
--Is there a verbal way of expressing a kiss or a hug?
--Is there a verbal way of expressing warm feelings?
--What are other forms of greeting that are more informal and personal
?
How correct am I to conclude that we as Telugu people ( I am sure
there are lot of other people in India or for that matter any where in
the world, I am just using "Telugu people" to refer to us)
-do not want to express our warm feelings to our loved ones? ( for
whatever reason)
-or we want to express, but have no way of doing it?
-our language is too "grandhikam( I took this from " Grandhika Bhasha
" - the language used by poets and novelists ),
-"common man's everyday real life simple" vocabulary is very limited
in Telugu
Does our language -- conversational Telugu reflect our behavior? Or is
it the other way? Our behavior is shaped by the lack of effective
everyday vocabulary?
Which came first-- the chicken or the egg??
During my first semester in college, I had to take a English Course,
and all the students in the class were International students, whose
first language is not English. I remember one thing that the professor
said he wants to accomplish in this class and that is
" I want you all to start thinking in English. " We have writing
assignments every week, and he used to point out in some of our essays
that we are thinking in our native language and then translating that
to english, and putting that in English in the essay. And obviously
that does not result in a good writing style.
SO my point is when we say something, we involuntarily "think" in a
language. I am sure some of us can relate to this when we speak in
English. I used to do this when I first came to this country. In some
situations I used to think in Telugu and then translate that in my
head in english and say it out in english.I do it the other way round
now. BUt thats a different story. I hope I havent lost anyone here?
Are you still with me?
This is what I am trying to get at:
Getting back to my conclusions :
How correct am I to conclude that we as Telugu people ( I am sure
there are lot of other people in India or for that matter any where in
the world, I am just using "Telugu people" to refer to us)
-do not want to express our warm feelings to our loved ones? ( for
whatever reason)
-or we want to express, but have no way of doing it?
-our language is too "grandhikam( I took this from " Grandhika Bhasha
" - the language used by poets and novelists ),
-"common man's everyday real life simple" vocabulary is very limited
in Telugu
Now look at these questions in the context of "thinking in a language"
when we say something? Do you feel the same way as before?
Lets take another example :
Say I want to Thank some one, we usually say Thanks, Thanks A Lot
etc..
If I were to say it in Telugu - Dhanyavadhamulu ( I can only think of
this! sorry) or (DandaluBabu)
-- How would you say this to a friend in Telugu?
-- How would you say this to anyone expressing your sincere thanks in
Telugu?
I cant think of more examples right now, but I hope someone brings up
these in the thread. But they all have one thing in common.
-- We dont have Telugu words ( everyday simple layman vocabulary )
that express our feelings in any situation that would enable us to
interact with our fellow Telugu's in a more intimate way.
-- This translates into a handicap in interacting and responding to
other non-Telugus( as well ) in a more intimate way
-- I by no means am saying that we are not emotional, or sensitive, or
loving.
We are all the above, if not even more emotional or caring than
some folks.
But the fact is if we have no way of expressing and hence handicapped
in expressing and responding to the same emotions in the context of
language and communication. Isnt that what language is supposed to
be?? a medium of communicating??
-- This results in a lower grade in our role as social beings.
Let us consider few Nepali Examples :
In Nepali - one would say "kecha" (spelling?) - how are you?
- kecha dai(brother) - for a friend who is elder than you.
A typical usage will be:
5the grade Kid to a 12 th grade student : Kecha Dai?
Freshmen in college to a Graduate Student : Kecha dai?
This is like a friendly way of greeting at the same time being
respectful but not in a formal way.
In Neplai - Dhanyavadh (Spelling?) - Thank You
These two words kecha and Dhanyavadh are used by Nepalis in everyday
conversations. I never heard of us using Dhanyavadamulu ( maybe we use
Thanks) in our every day life. The point I am trying to make is that
when these Nepalis use these words, they are thinking in Nepali, and
are able to express their feelings in Nepali, and at the same time
respond to that.
In my experience, I have found Nepali people to be very friendly,
warm. This is true of us Telugu people as well. There is one
difference though however, and this is from my experience, and that is
the lack of intimacy( is that the right word??) in expressing through
Telugu. This can be percieved by non-Telugus or even Telugus that when
a Telugu person speaks ( in Telugu or English, and I am talking about
an average person ( everyday Joe)) as very "dry" and non-intimate.
This may not be true in most cases, but it is almost true in everycase
if the Person is thinking in Telugu.
I think I am going to quit now. I apologize for the lengthy post. I
plead guilty to all charges of Ignorance. So save your breath if you
want to flame for this post. However I really would appreciate any
objective criticisms, and cooments, and your insight into this topic.
I am just trying to get a perspective here, and learn.
I hope you enjoyed reading this post.
Thanks
Venu
P.S. I am too tired to foolproof this whole post now.. I hope I ddidnt
come out too ignorant! I would feel satisfied if I can get atleast one
person to think about this topic!!!
Kamesh Medepalli
vaadu/aayana and adhi/aavida in telugu.
..you need to think more about how we express thanks. I know
the answer :)
TeluguGuy
Kamesh Medepalli <mede...@lucent.com> wrote in message news:<3B17A2F3...@lucent.com>...
Dheeraj Reddy
Geez!! something meaningful after a long time.
That arose my curiosity too.
In fact i've seen so many of them using " thanks Andi"
which kind of prooves the ... of Telugu in this regard. :-(
truely
dheeraj
<another of those rusty telugu speakers>
Bapa Rao
> I am hoping to start a discussion on this topic. I would appreciate
> any comments on this topic from you folks.
Dheeraj, you will have your answer when you include tone and facial
expressions as an integral part of the language. Next time do a favor
to a Telugu-only-speaking person and watch the smile, the expression
in the eyes, the head movement. Or watch a mother greet her child in
Telugu. Then tell me there is no way to express warmth and emotion in
Telugu.
In answer to the obvious objection (language should mean only words),
there is no reason why Telugu has to be just like English or French or
Chinese. A language is the sum-total of the expressions that its
speakers use, and words are only a part of it. It developed in a
context where the primary mode of communication was face-to-face oral,
and it is admirably adapted to that mode.
I believe Telugu is very well suited for expressing "maardavam." (I
hope you still remember that word from your high school days. :-)) I
may be biased, but I have heard many non-Telugu friends (Indian and
American) react to spoken Telugu by saying, what a tender-sounding
language. If they knew the word "maardavam" they would have used it.
It is not a coincidence that by far the most emotional and passionate
music of south india is in Telugu.
I admire your endeavor to understand your mother tongue. Best of luck.
My personal views.
Bapa Rao
Bapa Rao
respond to Venu. Sorry about the error.
Bapa Rao
Dheeraj Reddy
Thanks Bapa Garu..
In fact I knew already a couple of things abt my mother tongue. That its
one of the sweetest. and that words are not the only constituent of a language.
Well.. since I have never formally studied Telugu.. i probably don't know what
'maardavam' is.
As I get from your post. I think, one expresses gratitude/thanks in telugu
using expressions rather than words. Its tough to digest thet it will do the
job without the support of words, nevertheless, i will try today i front of
the mirror. :-)
till then
dheeraj
Dr. Prasad NV Tata
Not Kruthagnatha as was used by Late NT Vodu Kruthagnatha sends quite an
opposite meaning of Kruthagjatha
Regards
Tata Vadu
TeluguGuy <vko...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c8002dd2.01060...@posting.google.com...
Dheeraj Reddy
The OP requested the colloquial term. I think "kruthagjathalu" also
qualifies more as a literary term. One rarely hears people saying
"Kruthagjatalu Andi" when someone helps with trivial jobs.
my 2 cents..
dheeraj
Srini Venigalla
The distinction is on 'gha' - 'parusha sabdam (gha)' versus 'sarala sabdam
(ga)'. So it is easy to distinguish the baddies from the goodies, based on how
emphasized the sound 'ga' is.
However, I am curious - how do you pronounce the good word, krithgjatha? Don't
use the sound 'gna'. The TV guy always says 'ma kritagnathalu'.
Dheeraj Reddy
what's equivalent of 'thanks' in colloquial telugu ..
wish Kamesh sees this an posts it. :-)
(I believe he knows that).
dheeraj
TeluguGuy
> vko...@hotmail.com (TeluguGuy) wrote in message news:<c8002dd2.01052...@posting.google.com>...
> > I am hoping to start a discussion on this topic. I would appreciate
> > any comments on this topic from you folks.
>
> Dheeraj, you will have your answer when you include tone and facial
> expressions as an integral part of the language. Next time do a favor
> to a Telugu-only-speaking person and watch the smile, the expression
> in the eyes, the head movement. Or watch a mother greet her child in
> Telugu. Then tell me there is no way to express warmth and emotion in
> Telugu.
Sure, the expressions, and body language count. I do not argue about
that.
And yes, they all are part of the communication process. Yes only
'PART'.
The other part is the language itself.. the words we use. I apologize
if my post wasnt clear in briging that out. So just to recap some of
my questions:
-- We dont have Telugu words ( everyday simple layman vocabulary )
that express our feelings in any situation that would enable us to
interact with our fellow Telugu's in a more intimate way.
-- This translates into a handicap in interacting and responding to
other non-Telugus( as well ) in a more intimate way
-- I by no means am saying that we are not emotional, or sensitive, or
loving.
We are all the above, if not even more emotional or caring than
some folks.
But the fact is if we have no way of expressing and hence handicapped
in expressing and responding to the same emotions in the context of
language and communication. Isnt that what language is supposed to
be?? a medium of communicating??
-- This results in a lower grade in our role as social beings.
Obviously, the above aree just rhetorical statements.. They may be
true,
maybe not. But atleast for me, unless I learn the "grandhika bhasha"
the
above statements aree true.
Even If I do happen to master the telugu language to express my
feelings like
"Kavulu", what good is that going to do? I am taking a guess.. But
only 25% of the present population will understand. The others would
have no clue. I might be off on the 25% number, maybe someone with
some experiencee can give a more accurate number
Anyone want to take a shot at this:
--Do we have a strong "colloquial" or "slang" or "common man"
vocabulary or is it very limited?
--Or the Telugu that can express our feelings in "mutyalu lanti Telugu
(?= Grandhika Bhasha)" was never in reach of the common man?
-- Maybe we can thank the Kings, or the Scholars over the
pre-Independent era
who wanted to Keep the class divisions very distinct..(Which I
believe translated into the present day Cast/class based society
)....YOu might be thinking oh I know where this is going.. But I will
leave that to the reader to interpret.?
I know I am running on a thin line with that 3rd Question, but this is
an open forum, and hopefully will lead to some objective discussion.
When I meant "Telugu" as a language , I wasnt talking merely about the
words..
words by themselves have no meaning. It is the culture, the idea
behind the "words".. that give the meaning to the words. And that is
at the root of this discussion.
> In answer to the obvious objection (language should mean only words),
> there is no reason why Telugu has to be just like English or French or
> Chinese. A language is the sum-total of the expressions that its
> speakers use, and words are only a part of it. It developed in a
> context where the primary mode of communication was face-to-face oral,
> and it is admirably adapted to that mode.
>
Telugu is Telugu. It doesnt have to be like English, or French! I
agree with thee rest of the paragraph. It couldnt be said any better
> I believe Telugu is very well suited for expressing "maardavam." (I
> hope you still remember that word from your high school days. :-)) I
> may be biased, but I have heard many non-Telugu friends (Indian and
> American) react to spoken Telugu by saying, what a tender-sounding
> language. If they knew the word "maardavam" they would have used it.
I am sorry I dont remember "maardavam". What does that mean? I really
want to know.
>
> It is not a coincidence that by far the most emotional and passionate
> music of south india is in Telugu.
I will take your word on that. I believe so!
>
> I admire your endeavor to understand your mother tongue. Best of luck.
>
> My personal views.
> Bapa Rao
Thank You very much for your response. I appreciate it!
( How would you say this in Telugu, not a translation.. but Telugu way
of saying it.. I know I can usee body language.... I am typing here.
:) )
Venu
Dr. Prasad NV Tata
in NT Vodu style the stress is on gn on N where as the correct word the
stress should be on gj stress on J. Hope this clarification helps. If you
are relying on TV for improving language GOD Bless that land.
Vizianagaram Tata
Srini Venigalla <sri...@netsetgo.com> wrote in message
news:3B27F179...@netsetgo.com...
Bapa Rao
> Sure, the expressions, and body language count. I do not argue about
> that.
> And yes, they all are part of the communication process. Yes only
> 'PART'.
> The other part is the language itself.. the words we use. I apologize
> if my post wasnt clear in briging that out. So just to recap some of
> my questions:
One point I'd like to reiterate is that language doesn't develop in
isolation, it exists and develops in a particular social context. In
this case, if we take "thanks" in Telugu, I was trying to make the
point that a stereotypical Telugu person who doesn't know any other
language, does have the comprehensive language tools to express
gratitude to another person like himself. Going a step further, one
might say he can, by learning another Indian language (say Hindi)
again w/o any non-Indian influence, can communicate the full range of
emotions to a Hindi-only speaking person who doesn't have exactly the
same culture but does have a good deal of cultural overlap, compared
w/ say, an English-only speaking person.
So, my point is, when we are talking about the "judging" of a
language's adequacy, we have to be very careful what we are talking
about. I would say that such "adequacy measures" come into play only
when we take the language "out of context." For example, Telugu has
only one word, "mamcu" to denote snow, ice, fog, mist, dew. Does that
mean Telugu is an inadequate language or does that mean that these
phenomena: snow-fog-ice-mist-dew are all so infrequent in Telugu-land
that there was no reason to develop vocabulary for all these fine
distinctions?
A more meaningful measure of the "adequacy" of the language IMO is how
well does it adapt to changing contexts through dialect extensions,
creole formations etc., and still manage to retain its essential
integrity and identity. I think (w/o any scientific basis) that Telugu
is rather good in this regard, very similar to English--look at the
huge number of accretions--anya-deSyamulu--in Telugu, taken from
Persian, Arabic, English, and so on. The very fact that
"thanksu-Taanksu" is now a common expression in the language, and
allows Telugu speakers to communicate, in Telugu, with other language
speakers for whom verbal "thanks" is meaningful, tells us that Telugu
is, in fact, more than adequate.
Keep in mind that, if we demand that some arbitrarily delineated
"native" vocabulary of a language has to satisfy all present and
future functional requirements in all imaginable future contexts, why,
then, no language, Telugu or (certainly) English, will ever pass this
test. English is what it is today because its speakers went all over
the place and the language absorbed all sorts of words and expressions
from various social contexts in which they found themselves.
My personal views.
Bapa Rao
PS maardavam = tenderness, approximately.
Dheeraj Reddy
Now that's what offers a much more convincing and clear explanation of the
state of affairs. thanks Bapa Rao garu..
dheeraj
Srini Venigalla
You raise a very interesting issue of how languages are essentially the
creatures of their practitioners. It is indeed hard to imagine someone
saying "Kritagjathalu" or "Dhanya vadamulu" in day-to-day life without using
"Thanks".
This may be completely off the topic but, may be for that precise reason, we
should cherish everything that is not influenced by the later languages.
Examples are Annamayya Kirthanas. These 13/14 century telugu kirthanas are
amazing in many ways. For one, they are very "pucca" musically, from "raga
sampradayam" stand-point. At the same time, they are very colloquial (the
telugu ones, atleast). They offer some interesting insights into the
language. For eg. "Bhavamu lona Bhagyamu nandunu, Govinda govinda ani
koluvavo Manasa!" I have long forgotten that Bhavamu also means "Scarce",
Only when you understand the contrasting word "Bhagyamu", it occured to me.
His sringara kirthanas are sweeter than sweet, as they take so long to
figure out the hidden meanings in them!!
Another very rich source of some authentic telugu is Kshetrayya and Bhakta
Ramadas lyrics.
Coming to the current literature, Jalaadi wrote some fine very pure telugu
lyrics, though, he had a slant towards "graminakam", which is not really
correct telugu sometimes. There was another writer, who wrote some stories,
in the very beautiful Chittoor/Tirupathi telugu style. I used to think he is
the heir for Annmayya vocabulary. I cant remember his name of the stories he
wrote. Can any one?
Cheers,
Srini.
Srini Venigalla
fine telugu scholars. B station fellows talk Telugu like they are talking in
Hindi.
But then, how is "Anna NT Vodi" telugu? Though he had a great respect for the
literary aspect of his own movies, he pulled all stops in the movies he acted.
Yamagola is an example, how disgraceful cine-Telugu could be (entertaining of
course). Interestingly, what about Veturi? His lyrics stretch from chittigare to
manasa veena. Amazing..
TeluguGuy
personally enjoyed reading everyone of them, and I must say that I am
inclined to learn and appreciate Telugu more than ever before.
However, I am still frustrated about some Telugu issues.. I am sure
you will hear from me one of these days...
On that note, I was wondering if you could add to my list of slang
terms that are common these days. The ones that I know are:
1) Naku anta Scenu ledu babu
2) Light ga thisuko ( Is it a Hyderabadi slang? )
I know more than 2, I will post them as I remember them.. I would
appreciate your input.
Venu
P.S. I am actually starting a new thread called Telugu Slang ..
bapa...@hotmail.com (Bapa Rao) wrote in message news:<65e11028.01061...@posting.google.com>...